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13996602 No.13996602 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Hey /tg/
Lets say you have a arbitrary grimdark scale of 1-100 and lets say 40k has a score of 90, where would you put other universes/settings, like say,
Dune(original novels)
Warhammer Fantasy
et cetera

also dose anyone have pictures/clip art of Inquisitorial seals?

>> No.13996604
File: 387 KB, 2018x2864, imperial symbols.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.13996615
File: 24 KB, 320x240, keanu reeves sad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Grimdark lvl:

>> No.13996635

The grimdark of 40k is maybe a 24 on your scale. It's not very scary, not really all that dark.

That eldar rape diorama has a greater grimdark rating because it is more real then most 40k, which is the product of a fevered 13 year olds imagination.

>> No.13996678


>Not scary

Are you fucking insane?
How is it not scary?

>> No.13996711


You have a setting in which dictator empire which believes in cruel and totally irrational ideology and on a massive scale wires electronics to the aborted fetuses so it can use it as cleaning machines...and those are " the good guys" and that's not grimdark? I don't know what is grimdark then.

>> No.13996716

and how the fuck is it scary in your opinion? I'm not even this guy, but 40k is a comic relief setting. WoD could be something like 70 imo

>> No.13996717

He just defined that scale using 40k, dipshit.

>> No.13996725


Hive worlds might not be rendered scary by stock artists, but give this material to David Lynch and he will make you sleep with eyes open.

>> No.13996732

You cannot define a scale where something of low scale value is very high. Almost every other setting will have to be 90-100 now

>> No.13996744

Sure. Make it a logarithmic scale then.

>> No.13996748
File: 47 KB, 600x449, Tesla-600x449.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

You guys really think 40k is spooky and grimdark? oh my
I thought it was an inside joke, are you like 15?

>> No.13996803

Scales are defined by a minimum and a maximum, in this case 0-100. OP put 40k at 90, we are disputing/ridiculing him for thinking 40k is scary.

>> No.13996844

OP never said anything about it being scary.

>> No.13996886

It's not if YOU find it scary or not.

It's about the fear that the people that live in that universe feel, that makes it grimdark.

Not having freedom of speech, being a nobody.
At any time your planet could be overrun by hundreds of different alien species.
Important people tell you that foul daemons await to eat your soul if you don't serve a figure that you don't even fully comprehend.
In fact, you may even be forced to fight for that figure, giving your life for something that might not even be remembered the next day.
And if you refuse to serve, you will die anyways, as a filthy heretic, that no one will miss, and everyone will hate.

Yup, comic relief indeed.

>> No.13996888

So? Let's say 10 points more on the scale make a universe ten times as grimdark. That would put 40k in the lowest 10% of grimdarkness despite being at 90 of 100 points.

>> No.13996915

No rapes, no serial killers, no 'true horrors of war', 40k is a PG-13 world.

>> No.13996929


>No rapes

Says who?

>No serial killers

EVERYONE is a serial killer

>No 'true horrors of war'

What true horros? It's a fact that no one guardsman has ever returned home with his sanity intact.

>> No.13996947

Abnett's gaunts Ghosts and Mitchell's Ciaphis Cain books have rapist guardsmen, and the Dark Eldar run on rape.

>> No.13996950

>no serial killers
Yes there is. Hives. Hives are completely full of criminal scum.
>true horrors of war
Fuck true horrors, unreal horrors ripping apart they very fabric of your sanity.

Y'all seem to have the wrong idea of what's grimdark.

Grimdark is not another word for scary. Or gruesome.

It's about how much it would suck to exist there. And it would suck to be in 40K, because there is only war and war generally does suck.

>> No.13996962


>It's a fact that no one guardsman has ever returned home with his sanity intact.

Most guard don't return home full stop. They're either dumped on the closest Imperial world and told they can make their own way home or they win the planet by conquest and have to rebuild it for the rest of their lives.

>> No.13996963

I'd say Warhammer Fantasy is more Grimdark than 40k, and 40k is not Grimdark whatsoever

>> No.13996970

>no rape
Dark Eldar, Slaanesh cults
>No serial killers
Hives, Imperial cults, Chaos cults or nutjobs, galaxy is full of all these things
>no true horrors
Christ, there's more people in 40K suffering from some form of trauma or another than aren't. Chaos' schtick is basically ripping apart your sanity.

>> No.13996971

Wow, the derp from the 40k tards is pretty strong in here.

>> No.13996990

IF they return home.
Mostly they will just die... not in a way you would like to experiment as well.
Raped by Daemonettes.
Hugged by Nurglings.
Shot by your Commissar < Good End
Astartes come and chainrape everyone.
Head exploded for no reason.
Self combustion.
Soul got nomnomnomnomed.
Perils of the warp, see above ^
Your gun explode in your face.
Nids, nuff said.
Necrons, nuff said.

Damn, it just goes on indefinitly.

>> No.13997008


Sorry you only get your fluff from 12 year old ultramarines players.

>> No.13997013

Wait, wait. Why the fuck is anyone saying 40K isn't grimdark.

40K is the fucking source behind the word grimdark.

No, you do not get to redefine the word. The word has a definition.

The definition is "Sucks to be there".

It does not mean "scary ass shit". It does not mean "gruesome". It does not mean "rape, rape, rapedy rape, rapedy rape". By all means things that usually include those things are grimdark, yes. But you can have their exclusion and still be grimdark.

There are things more grimdark than 40K, though. Which is why it's at 90, presumably.

>> No.13997022

Almost any world is more 'grim dark' then 40k. And grimdark is not defined as 'sucks to be there'

>> No.13997023


>Claim something
>Don't provide arguments
>People respond with arguments
>Have nothing to say now


>> No.13997027

comma but as...

>> No.13997031
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Yep, really grimdark...

>> No.13997035

Call of Cthullu for example?
I believe that living in a world where you can just go retardedly insane, beyond measure of normal understanding, and then eat your own brains while you "have sex" with a shoggoth is pretty grimdark.

>> No.13997044


Grimdark is EXACTLY 'sucks to be here'

>> No.13997050



Ok, now you're just trolling.

>> No.13997069

>Almost any world is more 'grim dark' then 40k
That's stupid, your stupid. Most settings have their premise based on escapism of the more wish fulfilling type. People usually want somewhere happy, or somewhere with adventure. People tend to like joy, happiness and the like. Take most fantasy RPGs, usually they focus on high fantasy. It's usually adventure and stuff, dark elements may be contained there to be sure but they aren't usually the focus for the majority.
>And grimdark is not defined as 'sucks to be there
Grimdark was a term coined from the introductory text of Warhammer 40K, the gist of which is "It sucks to be here". It is used in the context of "it sucks to be here". When we call something grimdark we are generally saying "it would suck to be there" or "It would suck for that to happen".

You position is stupid. You can not say the thing that the term is derided from is not an apt usage of the word. That is stupid. You are stupid.

>> No.13997070
File: 1.30 MB, 1811x1250, Exalted__Fair_Folk_Battle_by_UdonCrew.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

The mortal humans in Exalted may be at the nastier end of the grimderp stick than most. they're beyond being expandable guardsman- Guardsmen are recognized as living people who do make a difference, no matter how tiny it may be.
Mortals in Exalted are scenery.

>> No.13997082

Yes, CoC is grimdark. Now where would we put it on the scale?

In setting it only happens to a minority of people, the whole horrible things. But the general atmosphere is one way or another we're all eventually fucked and going to die horribly. So it's hard to place, because when you look at the specifics it's probably 75 but in the big picture it's somewhere between 80 and 95.

>> No.13997086

Says you. As far as everyone else is concerned, it's a mocking way to reference the PG-13 levels of family friendly violence found in 40k.
>Also mocked as Grim Dark, derived from the tagline of Warhammer 40000. (In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war.)
From: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DarkerAndEdgier?from=Main.GrimDark

>> No.13997089

To be fair, that fanart is made of a true concept behind the Spehs Muhreens. That they can be very Derpy.

Not going into that, since it's game crunch + wardhammer, you don't get to say that 40k (The SETTING) is not grimdark because one of it's factions isn't grimdark. But hey, only 0,01% of the galaxy is made of astartes. So your opinion is imbecile at the least, since they can't even make the majority for an standard.

>> No.13997096

Yeah, see: >>13997086

You are digging a hole here. "Grimdark" is a mocking way of referencing the tagline of 40k.

>> No.13997098


>To be fair, that fanart is made of a true concept behind the Spehs Muhreens. That they can be very Derpy.

No, it's a dig at the fanboys and the rumor mill.

>> No.13997101
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Check out this 'Grim Dark' world of 40k.

This is not fanart, this is real GW approved canon.

>> No.13997109


>this is real GW approved canon.

No its not.

>> No.13997113

We need to define grimdark before we go on, cos some people seem to think its a synonym for 'spooky'. Damn.

>> No.13997117

Actually, there ARE flying landraiders.
But again, it's WARDHAMMER, and cannot be measured, no matter your methods.

>> No.13997118

Did you read the article? That's not the context of the article at all. It's not about family friendliness at all. I think I'm being trolled here, because you must see that.

The gist of that article too can be summed up with "something trying to be dark" or basically "something that is basically saying: it sucks to be there".

Yes, the term may have been coined to mock the blunt way 40K tries to present that but was embraced by the fans. It still makes it the derivative of the word and it's usage in reference to it apt.

>> No.13997119

Yes it is.

>> No.13997129



It says nothing about 'sucks to be there' or even succeeding at being dark.

So shut the fuck up.

>> No.13997130

If you want to be like that, 40k is a black comedy parody of sci, religion, war, etc.

>> No.13997136

Wait, that last bit does not make sense.

The word is still derived from it and using it in referenced to the setting is still apt.

>> No.13997140
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>this is real GW approved canon.
It WAS canon.

>> No.13997144
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40k could have been grimdark without few things which are just hilarious to look at:

a) spees mehreens
b) chaos spees mahreens
c) stupid-ass armors
d) Inquisition
e) Techno-magic! I ain't gotta explain shit
f) Filler races (Tau, Necrons) and their lack of fluff

Then we have sex sales (SoB, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Slaanesh part of chaos)

What's left?

Orkz who are made to be a comic relief of a comic relief setting.

>> No.13997151


I know about the flying raiders, but it doesn't stop the fact that the comic is highlighting how stupid the rumor mill can get when a new codex is coming out. Even if there is a grain of truth to some of it.

>> No.13997152

It still is canon, no matter how much you 40k tards whine that it isn't.

>> No.13997157






>> No.13997161


{citation needed}

>> No.13997173


>> No.13997176

The only way to understand the IoM is to first understand Brazil and play Paranoia. Literally.

>> No.13997178

But you gotta agree with me here that the grimdark part is not about that. It's about the normal dudes that live on the frikking planets that get nomed by HUMONGOUS and unstopable armies of +2 Inv Save soldiers.
Now, you get to be that guy, hold a lasgun and die virgin, forever alone, unloved and with a racist commissar pointing a gun at you. While you piss and shit yourself cause there is a frikking soulgrinder comming your way...
And you thinking that working at the office job was a hassle...

>> No.13997186

Wait, who cares about fucking tvtropes? It's a neckbeard term. We neckbeards use it, we get to say what it means.
First result for grimdark, I say that makes it the definition.
For similar definition

>> No.13997189
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Berserk - 100.

>> No.13997192

Why are you talking about Paranoia and my country? Tem alguma coisa pra falar pra mim, punk?
And what the hell Brazil has to do with Paranoia?

Samefag much?
Some people just like to see things burn.

>> No.13997198

You're a moron. Tvtropes is the penultimate resource on defining terms relating to setting and story.

>> No.13997201

But 40k is a setting where being particularly open-minded can lead to horrific entities from beyond the veil of nightmares to claw their way into reality through your eyes.
It IS a scary place.

>> No.13997202




>> No.13997204

That was (part) of my point too. I think we are saying twelve and a dozen here.


>> No.13997212


>> No.13997214


>Why are you talking about Paranoia and my country?

Please be trolling and not actually this retarded.
Brazil; a Terry Gilliam movie.
Paranoia; a RPG.

>> No.13997219
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This whole situations is hilarious. I just cannot imagine being one, it's this absurd. The whole surrounding could not ever exist and that's why no one treats 40k serious, and if something cannot be taken serious how could one feel the oppression in the game, which also is not shown anywhere whatsoever. 40k is all about tanks and pauldrons, creed, sexy eldars and other goofy things.

And the community is guilty for the status quo.

Pic related 40k in a nutshell, I'm so oppressed and terrified.

>> No.13997220

It is awesome to imagine some 13 year old with posters of metal bands on his walls and black lipstick on currently getting so upset because his beloved 40k is being mocked on the internet.

>> No.13997221


Vai comprar pão.

>> No.13997223

Could you stop that? You are not funny and only a very low percentage of /tg/, or 4chan, use capslock like that.
You are just a lonely fag looking for attention. Leave /tg/, go to /b/.

>> No.13997224

Tvtropes' article is too vague and does not refer to a definition of the term in specific, only as a passing reference.

Even then, that article says basically the same thing just with even vaguer wording.

However 1d4chan refers to it directly and gives a definition.

>> No.13997229

I'm sorry dudes.
I didn't get the reference, since, you know, I actually LIVE in that "movie".

But now I got it, and I have to concede to your logic.

>> No.13997236

i'm disappoint

I imagined leviathans to be FUCK OFF HUGE not basically a house on a baneblade. Gaunt's ghosts made it sound like an entire fortress housing thousands.

>> No.13997238

But grimdark doesn't mean serious.

Because yes 40K's silly. I'm a fan, I love it for this silliness. But it's the grimdar that factors into the silliness, because it goes so over the top with the death and the war and all sorts of bad stuff.

Listen, let's try and define the word clearly. but I think the point that should be clear is that the definition of grimdark should be apt for 40K, because that's the POINT of the word.

>> No.13997249

>I just cannot imagine being one, it's this absurd.
>I just cannot
>YOU just cannot
And again, my dear friend, that is your definition of it, now how the majority sees it.
Also, you lack a bit of good taste.

>> No.13997251
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>> No.13997253
File: 57 KB, 300x250, leviathan command epic.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


Leviathans are stupid looking things. There's a datasheet floating around for using them in Apocalypse.

>> No.13997256

No, Dark done well is NOT 40k. 40k is a parody of True Dark. GrimDark is the term for the parody.

>> No.13997261

See >>13997229
And yes, I was kinda serious.

Also, thanks for the image. Made me lol.

>> No.13997263

Warhammer 40,000 style is something best described as Cyber-Gothic.

It might have been comical and goofy in the past, but they definitely changed the overall style of the franchise over the years.

Just because you don't like it, don't make fun of other people for liking it.
I am sure the people defending 40k in this thread are all adults.
The same way that I am sure not all people who like anime are weeaboo otakus, and people who like DnD are not lonely far virgins.

Stop trying to act superior over people with different tastes, because you will never be.
Personal taste isn't, and never will be a fact.
What IS a fact, is that GW coined the word Grimdark to mean a ruthless world that is very harsh to live in. It doesn't matter if you think the world is "funny" or "childish".
That's what grimdark is being used for in this thread.
Stop being so bitchy, and grow up.


I could rate Shadowrun as a 50...

>> No.13997264


That's not a GW Leviathan, it's Kris Kukski's (http://kuksi.com/) church tank. At most GW is a spiritual liege for Kukski.

Kris Kukski is good, but he crosses into grimderp quite a bit. His site it still very pro-click.

>> No.13997273

What do you think is grimdark then?
You put on critics all day and say not what you see as terrifying and undesired, or "sucks to be there" like some define it.

>> No.13997274

True Dark? What the fuck are you on about man? Are you saying that the term should be excluded only to parody instances of darkness?

I have to say I disagree. Because sometimes 40K is serious, at times.

I think the ones that works best is 1d4chan's, to be honest.

>> No.13997275

BULLSHIT. Shadowrun is far more dark then 40k.

>I am sure the people defending 40k in this thread are all adults.


>> No.13997278
File: 24 KB, 400x1200, Grimdark chain of being.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

We used to do these in college.

>> No.13997288


A shame it's also populated by a sizable population of imbeciles. Citing tvtropes as the definitive source for definitions of terminology is something only a foolishly foolish fool would do.

>> No.13997290

>What IS a fact, is that GW coined the word Grimdark to mean a ruthless world that is very harsh to live in. It doesn't matter if you think the world is "funny" or "childish".

GW didn't coin the word moron, the word came about from the poor writing in the rulebook intro text.

>> No.13997292

Wrong opposition.

It goes from grimdark to noblebright.

>> No.13997293

You do realize that that argument invalidates yours?
>I am sure the people talking about shadowrun in this thread are all adults.

>> No.13997295

>>herp derp if you dont think the same i think you are underage derp

>> No.13997297
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yeah let's redefine the word, because it sounds so cool and 40kfags want to use it as their own.

If something cannot be taken seriously it cannot be grim nor dark. CoC for example has lot's of things that are weird, not from our world, improbable - but it's done classy as fuck. 40k is not only silly (btw we're all glad you like the silliness, good for you) it's just a mess, something done without thinking, purely bad, a random combination of stuff which could normally be grim and dark. It's like a cartoon for kids working as a reverse psychology, so that bad things are shown in a humorous way to make it less grim and less dark.

I like only the sex sales part btw

>> No.13997301


And I suppose your grandmother published the book then?

>> No.13997304

Back on topic.

SLA industries, is it grimmer and darker than 40k?

>> No.13997305

I never made that claim assfuck.

>> No.13997308
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>> No.13997312


I judge you unfit to participate in a dicussion that requires mental activity.

>> No.13997317
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>> No.13997318

>purely bad
I disagree, I enjoy it.
>a cartoon for kids
You see, now you're losing civility here.

So is something dark that is made light of no longer dark? Wherein, then, does black comedy lie, that oldest and noblest of humours?

Just because something isn't serious doesn't make it not dark, as black comedy on many occasions shows us although black comedy too can be serious.

I think it might help us progress if you could be less condescending about this, too.

>> No.13997322
File: 36 KB, 431x604, 1298036966937.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Whats so funny about 40k?

>> No.13997325

It's a good thing I'm arguing with you then.

>> No.13997333

Comma. Because.
Seriously, why do you even bother to just slap an opinion into the thread without even attempting to explain anything?

>> No.13997334
File: 33 KB, 450x600, 450px-ambrose_everett_burnside.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I for one can imply that majority of people liking 40k (in this thread or not) are from the united states of america.

Same goes for DnD. Think about it for a moment gentlemen.

>> No.13997343
File: 169 KB, 160x120, oh_snap-1.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

OH SNAP! Someone just got told.

>> No.13997347



>> No.13997348

What needs to be established if you're going to have these stupid pointless semantical debates is that "silly/serious" and "happy world/crapsack world" are two different scales that exist independently of one another.

Taking a horror movie and painting everything shades of pink and purple does not make the situation any less harsh for the characters in-universe.

You need to decide on which of the two scales the term "grimdark" is defined. OP clearly intends for it to have meaning according to the "happy world/crapsack world" scale, so why don't we all stop trolling and just roll with that, eh?

I give Fallout a 60ish.

>> No.13997351


Ad hominem already? Really?

Come on /tg/, I expected more of you.

>> No.13997353


>> No.13997358

Yeah. That is because a) this website is best known in the USA and b) 40k is most heavily marketed in the USA.

>> No.13997359

Oh man, just look at his face. DeVito is going to kill that guy.

>> No.13997361
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>> No.13997363

The majority of gamers are from the US as a whole, it's a huge country and D and D was invented there. I'm sure you have some
you're trying to make, but this is the reality. Most tabletop gamers are American.

>> No.13997365


Actually, counting me, I know for a fact that there are at least two south americans in this thread.

>> No.13997368

Bitch got told.

>> No.13997373

No. Because americans are fucking retards liking big heroic things.

>> No.13997378
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>> No.13997380

>Most tabletop gamers are American.

Wrong. Britain is where the Tabletop game was invented, and it remains the heart of miniature rules and manufacture for historical gaming. No other country comes close.

>> No.13997388
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>> No.13997396
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>> No.13997397
File: 35 KB, 400x1200, Grimdark chain of being.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

If you judge it checklist-style, 40k is actually pretty damn dark. What doesn't it have?

>> No.13997398

It has also one fifth of the USA's population.

>> No.13997404


And what does that have to do with the price of fish?

>> No.13997405


Nice argument there.

Actually, fuck sarcasm, that was bad and you should feel bad.
For generalizing americans you have commited a stupid and immature act that puts you on the same level as the people you're judging to be stupid.

Half-Life 2 = 80.

>> No.13997410
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>> No.13997423

Fallout is 60ish in this scale, 1984 only a 78, 40k gets 90?!? WTF...well, what's the baseline here? [and I'm assuming it isn't 40k like OP seems to imply.]

>"omeOP learn"
yeh, even captcha fucking disagrees withthis horseshit. 40k, 90/100 on a grimdark scale...well, maybe "grimdark" is just one end on a sliding scale between two descriptors of humor...maybe...can grimdark evenbe defined without naming a series? (although, I do agree with this here >>13997189 )

>> No.13997424
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>> No.13997428
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>> No.13997429

How much would Hokuto no Ken be?

>> No.13997432
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>> No.13997436
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>> No.13997443

We derived grimdark from 40K's tagline, that "in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war". It was a word intially used to describe the 40K setting semi-mockingly - it's grim, it's dark, it's grimdark, yada yada. There was never a requirement for it to be taken seriously. It's since expanded to cover many things, but the prevalent theme is that when something is grimdark, things are objectively bad. They are unhappy, they are unpleasant, and as serious, hilarious, or cool the effect might be to the people outside looking in, within the setting itself, things are shit. Your setting doesn't have to be serious to be grimdark; neither must it be ridiculous. It simply has to suck for most of the people in it.

There is often an association with ridiculousness - because if you make something VERY grimdark, it tends to come off as ridiculous more than serious because it's implausible - but it's not a requirement. Some would specifically call ridiculous grimdarkness "grimderp", which I would consider a subcategory.

>> No.13997452
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This is grimdark.

>> No.13997453
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>> No.13997468
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>> No.13997469

If you think the photo is hard, you can actually watch her die on youtube.


Fucking Ahmenim-, ahmenmam, fuck iran.

>> No.13997470

Pretty much this. There is two sides to 40k.
The one is rather light hearted, as the tabletop consists is models with very robust design that often defies physics for easier production. Not to mention how orks are often funny and strange.

On the other hand, there is the in-depth plot, where for every man, dying in the field, there is a world working constantly to keep the imperium running. This is, where the grimdark lies. It's the system, that kills of millions, to achieve something for billions of others.
The horror is, what lies beyond the surface of grandour. In the underhives, where anarchy rages, in the mid-hives, where the toiling masses are brutally suppressed, in the spires, where the mighty and ever-envious nobles fight amongst themselves.
Grimdark is not, how a singular person suffers, but how the Ministorum keeps the masses in check with hate and superstition for xenos, mutants, etc.

One should never forget to tell apart game mechanics and fluff-universe. Also: The more someone has the urge to make something look funny and light hearted, the darker it must be to the people.
I'm 21 and I would never dare to rate Shadowrun on the given scale but I would say Shadowrun can not reach the value of 40k. It could be pretty close to one singular planet in 40k, but it just lacks a whole galaxy full of things that can and will kill you.

>> No.13997473
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>> No.13997477
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>> No.13997481
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>> No.13997485
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>> No.13997496
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>> No.13997499

Grim Dark


>> No.13997502
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>> No.13997507
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Did someone mention the Leviathan?

Also, on a related note, the vehicle mentioned earlier might have been a Capital Imperialis rather than the Leviathan(will dig out that picture in a sec)

>> No.13997509
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>> No.13997516
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>> No.13997518

Germany here.

>> No.13997520


Thanks. I couldn't find that picture.

>> No.13997523
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>> No.13997528
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>> No.13997531
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>> No.13997533
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Here it is

>> No.13997540
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>> No.13997547
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>> No.13997550
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The Abrams is Superior in every respect.

>> No.13997561
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>> No.13997564

What the fuck?
One is mutilation, the others are paintings.

Neither of them is grimdark. Grimdark describes the atmosphere of the universe, not a painting, not a battle and not a single injury.

>> No.13997570
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>> No.13997571
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Small time

>> No.13997573


It's not even remotely like a cathedral, covered in skulls or just over the top stupid so your statement is wrong.

>> No.13997576

Everytime I see this thread I think OP's mom should had take the pill.
Why didn't she take the goddamn pill?!

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>> No.13997583
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>> No.13997589


She did but vomited it up after drinking too much. Alchoholism is a terrible thing and foetal alcohol syndrome is even worse.

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>> No.13997599

So 40k is not grimdark because their command vehicles are bulky and impracticle?

>> No.13997604
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>> No.13997605
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So I heard you like grimdark.

>> No.13997606


The only even slightly grimdark images here. Seriously? FUCKING ULTRAMARINES?

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>> No.13997635
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>> No.13997647
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black and white make it even more grimdark

>> No.13997656
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More grimdark then the entire 40k universe.

>> No.13997680

To me, grimdark needs a certain amount of baroque ridiculousness, stuff that's clearly absurdly over-the-top, but in-universe it's "just Tuesday". I recall the artwork in the Second Edition fluff book was really good at this.

>> No.13997689
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>> No.13997802
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>> No.13997820

Blacker than the blackest black time infinity.

>> No.13997850

Star Trek: 15
Star Wars: 30
Lord of the Rings: 50
Dragon Age: 60
Witcher: 70
Total Annihilation: 100

>> No.13997954

Werewolf: the Forsaken should be IMHO at Wh40k level of 'grimdark'.

>> No.13997973

Ah, that was, what this thread was about, I remember...
Don't know about Dragonage and the Witcher though.
They don't appear that bad to me.
What makes them so grimdark?

>> No.13998001

Dragon Age is less grimdark than LotR

>> No.13998011

Could you explain that?

>> No.13998012


I second this. Also, Rokugan gets a 45.

>> No.13998033

Is that the film lotr or the Hurin ones?

>> No.13998089

Did you not actually play Dragon Age or did you somehow block out the constant quipping, snarking, and Joss Whedon references?

Even in LOTR, which was more High Fantasy in theme, they had the common courtesy to take it fucking seriously instead of pulling shit like this:

HURR DURR YOURE CRAZY but im gonna keep adventuring with you anyways

>> No.13998134

Beg your pardon,Sir. But I'm not quite sure, if I can follow you.
No, I did not play it.
And what does LotR take seriously, which would be put in doubt by killing people at you mercy?

>> No.13998146

Libya:70 and raising
Urban China:50
Rural China:65
South Africa:45
Sub Saharan Africa:80
North Africa:79

70 and above: Everything is going down on the shit and, having a normal life is a challenge, there are no certainty on both short and long terms

50-69: Life can be stable, but complications can occur for whatever reason depending on a lot of factors, life is not easy for the average citizen, but with enough will they can make it through.

30-49:A pleasant life can be achieved with enough determination, but inequality is a concern but not deterrent to make a living, changers often tend not to be traumatic and nor have massive impact in the general population.

10-29:Live is easy and without problems outside personal matters, chaos and crisis are abstract words the system is nearly utopian.

0-9:Heaven/utopia, such place does not exist.

>> No.13998162

In Lord of the Rings the characters treat the events of their world and their lives as being important for the most part. Even if they are occasionally reckless in a heroic way, they still acknowledge the possibility of death and a fear of it.

In Dragon Age, nobody takes anything seriously. The only "grimdark" parts of the setting happen to NPCs, and other than that the only thing that would MAKE it "grimdark" is the presence of blood - less blood than Baldur's Gate had, at that (people exploded into fucking chunks on a crit).

The point was that even though the Grey Warden just murdered an allied soldier for no reason, none of her companions really seemed to care. Oh, they were surprised, sure, but they didn't do what someone in that position should actually do, i.e. "do something about it".

A similar thing shows up here:

You threaten to torture him to death and he's just like "lol whatever" and then he's like "can I join you" and you're like "no lol im going to stab you". There's no rhyme or reason to any of this, none of it feels like it has consequence for characters in the context of the story. If the characters don't take it seriously, why should the player? What's "grimdark" about it if they're all acting like it's lighthearted and simple?

>> No.13998180

can we get diablo(2) in on this, maybe a 55, or 80 for hardcore?

captcha: leximato proc

>> No.13998212

Well, that makessense.
I watched some of those moronic killings now and it appears to be quite pointless.
I see the point to make it able to play a psychopath, but the reactions of those around the MC are a little indifferent to say the least.
It just does not seem to have any implications when you kill just on a whim.

>> No.13998252

Warhammer 40k stopped being grimdark in the 00's. Now Space marines aren't brainwashed criminals and just psychopaths, now they are full of "HONOUURR" and " TEACTICAL JENIUS".

Imperial guard is more now about starship troopers than a mix about 1º World war troops (that was grimdark IRL) and 2º World war troops, specially nazis and soviets 8even more grimdark).

And the list goes on. Just as cyberpunk and GRIMDARK superheroes comic died, died the grimdark in 40k.

>> No.13998278

>Imperial guard is more now about starship troopers than a mix about 1º World war troops (that was grimdark IRL) and 2º World war troops, specially nazis and soviets 8even more grimdark).

If you're talking about the book, no they're not.

If you're talking about the movie, uh, that was pretty grimdark too. Or did you miss all the people being dragged off and torn apart by the bugs? The only redeeming factor of Starship Troopers The Movie is that they were glad to die for Earth, when plenty of guardsmen in 40k are still scared conscripts.

>> No.13998288

Well, if 40k is a 90, Dune is 100, and the scale is broken.

>> No.13998321
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>>aren't brainwashed criminals
you are confusing starcraft with warhammer 40k, i dont blame you

>> No.13998340
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By early definitions in this thread Paranoia is grimdark.

>> No.13998341


Sub-Saharan Africa and Afghanistan are equal? And they're only at 80?

Also, seeing as Europe and the US are responsible for a lot of the rest of the world's problems, don't they get extra points for that?

>> No.13998343
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So would you consider Mat Ward's word grimdark?

Or Rob Liefeld's?

>> No.13998355


Well yeah. It's a crapsack world where nothing works and death is always right around the corner. It's an Orwellian nightmare.

>> No.13998357
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Matt Ward is a tactical genius.
You guys just don't get his art.

>> No.13998359
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Imperial soldiers kill mutant and xeno children on sight.

They killed all the inhabitants on a world becouse they didn't want civilians to know about CSM.

It's only Matt fucking Ward and the BL staff who is all honour and stuff.

And thats becouse people don't like to read about a couple of hulking warriors killing little children and ordering purges of planets.

Those are often the bad guys in most series, but in 40k evryone is bad.

>> No.13998364


I was basing my self on how would be living there, not what country does to another.

>> No.13998365

Mat Ward is fucking grimdark if you define it as "sucks to live there".

>> No.13998383
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especially if you are not an ultramarine

>> No.13998386
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>When lol just doesn't cut it

>> No.13998406
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Codex: Space Marines:

>Ultramar is a wealthy empire that knows little unrest and no rebellion - a somewhat unique distinction in the desperate days of the 4 1 Millennium. The population live in sprawling cities, but these cities are surrounded by extensive farmlands and seas that teem with fish. st Each of Ultramar's worlds are self-sufficient in raw materials and food. Trade between the planets is active, and each planet has its specialities and delicacies. Each world is balanced as a society and also as an ecosystem - although composed of primarily industrial worlds, Ultramar has none of the nightmarish toxic wastelands that are common phenomena throughout the galaxy. It is therefore little wonder that many system governors and planetary lords regard Ultramar with an envious eye.

>Most worlds in the Imperium are obliged to provide regiments for the Imperial Guard when required, but Space Marine homeworlds are an exception. In the case of Ultramar, however, the Ultramarines rule so efficiently and are so prosperous that they maintain several hundred regiments ready and willing to join the Imperial Guard when the need arises. As a result, regiments from Ultramar have fought all over the galaxy, often in campaigns alongside the Ultramarines themselves.

>> No.13998422


>> No.13998432
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Oh god.
I don't even play space marines, and I NEED this.

>> No.13998442

It totally is, regardless of whether you're using the "sucks for people who live there" definition or the "absurdly hilarious to the players" definition. Paranoia is a world where death is commonplace to the point where it's a punchline for the players, but an actual human being who tried to live there would probably think it's less funny.

What's not grimdark about it?

>> No.13998458

And you saying you want to live in an universe where Matt Ward designs your life? More so, where Ultrasmurfs do as they PLEASE?

I do not stand corrected sir. It SUCKS TO LIVE THERE.

>> No.13998474
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>> No.13998490


Don't forget that as most citizens are Infrareds the majority of the complex would be painted black. And black is dark. And isn't making jokes treason? So it's quite grim.

>> No.13998503
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>> No.13998530 [DELETED] 


I'd rather live on Dusk or Volg...

>> No.13998552

seen that before... but yet I still Rage

I rather grow up on Dusk than that place...

>> No.13998556
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>MFW "every other chapter of the spehs mareens want to be like the Ultrablues and recognise Cageus Manar as their spiritual liege"

>> No.13998587

As far as Grimdark goes, no one mentioned Planescape. I think that place, philosofy mambo jambo aside, is very hopeless and soulcrushing, contributing for at least a 75 on the grimdark-o-metter.

>> No.13998646


Fucking Ultramarines, dissin on my Blood Angels...

>> No.13998723
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>> No.13998744

i thought that was common knowledge on /tg/

>Modern wargaming originated with the military need to study warfare and to 'reenact' old battles for instructional purposes. The stunning Prussian victory over the Second French Empire in the Franco-Prussian War of 1870-1871 is sometimes partly credited to the training of Prussian officers with the game Kriegspiel, which was invented around 1811 and gained popularity with many officers in the Prussian army.

>> No.13998781

wh40k is a setting in which inquisition houses a majority of progressive thinkers

read this sentence aloud

>> No.13998818

Couldn't you have at least picked an actual GOOD MBT?


>> No.13998827

on the other hand... in this world heretics can actually create the apocalypse of a planet...

That however dosen't make this shit any better.

>> No.13998842

IRL the inquisition introduced a lot of concepts like relatively fair trials that were glossed over by later scholars.


>> No.13998871

>lets say 40k has a score of 90

How about no.

How about a scale in which 40k is 1. The scale runs from 0 upwards.

>> No.13998910

to 1.1

>> No.13998914
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Hear my words, RetailFag, and hear it well. Untill the day I die I won't stop hunting you. Whenever less you expect I will be there gazing my gaze of gazeful hatred towards you. For showing me hell that is the least I can do to you, but I will do it nonetheless.

I will do it, RetailFag...

And you better be prepared for you will still see this face again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again...

>> No.13998924

Whatever happened to "grimdark peasant" guy?

>> No.13999013

Sandbox drills remain part of the US Army Military Decision Making Process. I know West Point had a wargaming club for awhile, but recently dropped 40k as acceptable due to lack of merit. Historical games only.

>> No.13999049


except that there are no heretics in this world since there is no warp and hence no real danger of divergent thought

wh40k is grimdark because the reasons for all those medieval mechanisms for social control are not there to defend social order but the humanity itself at the very real existential level

we can now argue that social order defines and even enables human existance but then again, if you prove in our world that, for instance, god is a cultural construct which embodies and reflects cultural values instead of being a "real" entity the worst thing that can happen to you is to be stoned to death. in wh40k on the other hand that would be the BEST thing to happen to you, while the worst thing would be for your soul to be devoured by some daemon, but not before you would serve as a channel through which your entire world, at the very least, is equally consumed and serves as a staging point for further daemonic incursions

>> No.13999107
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They were the defenders of Holy Terra. They would never fall back. They were the shield of The Emperor. Despite this, Rogal Dorn looked upon his soldiers and felt a grim reality set in - he had let them down. After traitor Horus' crusade cast aside the combined forces of Dorn and Sanguinius, killing the later, only the Imperial Fists' leader remained to feel the guilt of the survivor.

Called back from his self-imposed exile by Guilliman to discuss the creation of the Codex Astartes, he knew immediately that he must comply with his brother's wishes for the good of mankind. Delivering the news to his forces is when the truth set in. There was nothing he could do, even following the codex to the letter would never change the fact that he could never be an Ultramarine.

>> No.13999129
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Keep it up, chuckles... Keep it up.

>> No.13999293

A Song of Ice and Fire = 500

>> No.13999571

I'm going to agree with the early anon that if 40k is a 90, then Dune has broken the scale. Let's take a quick look at the original series:
The Atreides start as one of the only noble and generous houses that rule through loyalty and not fear, and end up being tyrants and autocrats who subjugate the entire galaxy at the edge of a knife.
The Fremen start as a strong, communal, free desert people with a dream to transform their world into paradise, and by the 2nd and 3rd book are largely corrupted by wealth and power, and by the 4th have entirely lost their culture and good traits because without the desert they are nothing. Even in the 1st book, the great leaders of the Fremen transform from individualistic and capable warriors to mere creatures following Paul's every whim.
The protagonist of the first book spends half of it struggling with the fact that he is about to unleash a Jihad the universe has never seen and nothing he can do in life or death will stop it. By the 2nd and 3rd books, he blithely dismisses what happened and (if anything) is amused by the fact that his legions killed over 60 billion people. His sister Alia becomes possessed by the subconscious will of his greatest enemy, his mother schemes against him for the Bene Gesserit, and his closest friends either die, leave him forever, or become little more than servants to his religious awe. Chani, the only woman Paul ever loved dies in childbirth and he is almost destroyed by the offer to have her back if he surrenders his empire to the Tleilaxu. And in the end he dies as a blind old man, hated by most of mankind.

>> No.13999578


And best of all, the only way to save the human race is to rule over them as an omniscient despot, controlling every aspect of their lives and not allowing any freedom or independence for 3500 years, and then unleash a colossal war and famine that kills most of the population. This is so unthinkable that Paul who blithely dismissed killing 60 billion rebels against it with every fibre of his being. Leto II, however, does do it, surrendering his humanity and freedom, left with only the remnants of human emotions, and transformed into a worm creature. His prescience means he already knows the outcome of everything and so experiencing life is entirely meaningless; he doesn't even notice the passage of time anymore, and his only escape is going into his Other Memories, a process that leaves him weak and could destroy him. When he is finally surprised to discover someone he can love and who loves him back, he is killed almost immediately after and dies an agonising death that spans about 40 pages.
And that's just off the top of my head

>> No.13999717

>Wrong. Britain is where the Tabletop game was invented, and it remains the heart of miniature rules and manufacture for historical gaming. No other country comes close.

Ehrm, Dungeons and Dragons evolved out of a tabletop miniature game in the early 70's

Games Workshop "invented" tabletop wargaming in the 80's

>> No.13999975

Depends on how you define grimdark. If you mean actually grim and dark, then I find 40k much to silly and corny to really qualify. If you mean grimdark in the popular sense of just that amount of silliness and cheese, faux grim to the point of satire, then 40k pretty much takes the cake.

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