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[ERROR] No.13433874 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

>> No.13433886

...go on.

>TSK brulot

>> No.13433901

Scans yet?

I want some now far cooler Space Sharks

>> No.13433912

>>13433901

>cooler
>made grimdark

you are a child.

>> No.13433915

Anyone else notice how it's now Lugft and not Lufgt anymore?

>> No.13433925

Yeah, we pimp 'ed.

>> No.13433943

He might want to wear a helmet, it would suck to get burning promethium in your armor if the enemy ever managed to hit that fuckhuge fuel tank.

>> No.13433967

>>13433912

What's not to like about a simple name change for a barely-existent chapter that inexplicably enrages /tg/ and several 40K communities?

>> No.13433970

For a sec, i thought this was a fleshlight-necklace

>> No.13434029

I, for one, am glad I waited on Badab part 1 until that became available as a bundle pack. Cheaper, AND easier!

Also, Carcharodons Astra are acceptable substitutes.

>> No.13434070

>>13433967

Because Space Sharks is an awesome name.

Carcho-whatsists doesn't roll off the tongue nearly as well.

It'd be like renaming the Space Wolves Canis Astras or something.

>> No.13434109

>>13434070
>It'd be like renaming the Space Wolves Canis Astras or something.

No one should care about that, either. It'd be like people complaining if they about saying "Adeptus Astartes" instead of "Space Marines."

>> No.13434110

>>13434070

I don't think that "Car-charo-don" is too difficult for even the saddest of /tg/ neckbeards to pronounce.

>> No.13434114

>>13434070
>He thinks Space Wolves is a good name

>> No.13434139

>>13434110

I didn't say it was hard to pronounce, I said it doesn't have the same ring as SPAAAACEE SHAARRRRKS.

I'll admit, I'm just irritated at seeing some of the last vestiges of the original, lighthearted parody side of 40k being swept away and Grimdarkened.

They will always be the Space Sharks to me.

At least the Chapter Master is fucking awesome. Lightning Chain ClawFists? Hell yeah, motherfucker.

>> No.13434148

>>13434070
On the plus side, Carcharodons bring to mind (well, mine at least) gigantic doomsharks that can eat a crowd of people in one bite.

As opposed to Space Sharks, which just brings to mind "JAWESOME".

>> No.13434179

>>13434070
to be honest it's the difference between high gothic naming conventions and more.. casual naming

For all we know, space wolves are called "Canis Astras" by the high lords, because "Space Wolves" doesn't sound important enough

Charcharodons isn't a bad name, and you can still call them space sharks, because that's what the grunts on the ground and other space marines will probably use

>although I'm loathe to request scans, I won't be picking up the book for a while. What do the salamanders get? Long time Salamander player

>> No.13434204

>>13434139

He needs more fins

>> No.13434258

>>13434139
Pretty much this. I've been playing Space Sharks since before the Badab books were known about (actually, I was the guy who asked if they were still going to be part of the fluff during the seminar at GD Baltimore), and dammit I'm still playing them as Space Sharks. Because in the grimderp grim derpness of the grimderp future, anything funny must be swept way or shoved over to the Orks, or at least that's what GW is trying to make us believe.

Fuck. That. Noise.

>> No.13434348

>>13434258

>derp derp 80's 40k was so kewl

>> No.13434412

>>13434348
well, it was

new 40k also has some cool, so a mix of the two is generally best

>I still paint rogue trader rank stripes on all my marines, as well as checkers, hazard stripes, lightning bolts.. the works

>> No.13434421

>>13434348
but seriously, try harder

>> No.13434608

>>13434258
Play the space sharks. Just because the 'original' space sharks have had their name retconned doesn't mean there couldn't still be a chapter out there with the Space Sharks name... and in adition, this option gives you full fluffing and paintscheming choices.

>> No.13434780

>>13434608

They'll always be Space Sharks. Just because Forgeword are a bunch of neckbeard perma-virgin manchildren who got so butthurt about about a name having a modicum of light heartedness about it they had to drag it through the grimdark bush

>> No.13434839

>>13434780
> bitching relentlessly about a name change
> accusing other people of rlentless neckbeardan and manchildan

IRONYYYY

>> No.13434841

>>13434780
>implying they don't love the game and how they write the IA books doesn't clearly showcase that

I think you're the "neckbeard perma-virgin manchild" in this case. It's just a name, don't take it to heart.

>> No.13434934

So guys. Do we know what the new "Executioners" and "Space Phantoms" marines look like?

I am quite interested in what the IA team did to them.

>> No.13434963

>>13434934
> space phantoms
black helmet. Red gloves and belt. Black shoes. Yellow cape.

>> No.13434991

>>13434963

I am still hoping that we get either that, or this.

>> No.13435225

But ... is it scanned yet?

>apantral lerzog

Good name for a Hereticus Inquisitor.

>> No.13435338

>>13435225
doubt it, people received their copies like, yesterday

give it time. Though, like all IA books I'd say it's worth picking up (though I've only bought one so far, to my eternal shame)

>> No.13435559

>>13434139
>I'll admit, I'm just irritated at seeing some of the last vestiges of the original, lighthearted parody side of 40k being swept away and Grimdarkened.

Stop acting as if you're an oldfag, douchebag. You were at best a little kid when 40k first started out. You must be a fucking pussy to think the 40k that was a joke that existed 20 years ago is better than it's current incarnation.

>> No.13435608

>> No.13435621

>> No.13435636

>>13435559

So Space Marines and Guard, FINAL DESTINATION and Marneus Calgar as the God of War and Kaela Mensha Khaine as the God of Worf is superior?

>> No.13435644

>>13434139

The scientific term is "grimdarkenated"

>> No.13435662

>>13435636

As the guy he quoted, I gotta ask; why'd you go and respond to the obvious troll?

Besides, its all a matter of subjective *opinions* anyways.

>> No.13435743

How's the BFG section in this book?

Did the Space Marines get Nova Cannon escorts or retconned into Imperium's premier warfleet?

>> No.13436024

>>13435662

I don't see him as a troll I see him more as a fucking idiot. Pic related, it's exactly what's going on if he think's he is trolling someone.

>>13435636
>So Space Marines and Guard, FINAL DESTINATION
> Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

What the fuck are you talking about? I assume that you're unable to articulate that you dislike the changes from rouge trader to current 5th ed. I agree with Kaela Mensha Khaine getting stomped everytime he takes the field but that's the really only discernible thing I can take from your stupid ass post.

>> No.13436063

>>13436024

>refers to >>13435559 as a troll
>says exactly the same thing

0/10.

>> No.13436083

>>13436024
>rouge

It's like I'm on /v/!

>> No.13436176

Face it, Chaos has always had better army names.

Word Bearers? Thousand Sons? Emperor's Children? Black Legion? Death Guard? Alpha Legion?

Have fun with your Space Wolves and Blood Angels.

>grimdark is stupid

Dude, 40K IS stupid, but I'll take grimdark over the amateurish and downright corny stuff in the Rogue Trader days. Take off the nostalgia goggles already.

>> No.13436194

>>13435743

This is exactly what has happened.

BFG balance and all established fluff about Imperial fleets thrown out of the window to make marines the EMPRAHS FUREH.

>> No.13436210

>>13436176
Iron Hands were here. All your legions is faggots.

>> No.13436231

>>13436176

There is not a single faction with a legal codex in current 40k that I would not replace with Chaos Squats given the chance.

>> No.13436355

>>13436210
Salamanders here

Iron Hands are bro-tier

Raven guard can tag along too

>> No.13436387

SPACE WOLVES AND BLOOD ANGELS USED TO BE COOL BEFORE THEY BECAME STUPIDLY OVERPOWERED

BLOOD RAVENS USED TO BE COOL BEFORE FUCKING INDRICK BOREALE

ALL THE OTHER CHAPTERS ARE NOW PUSSIES WHO THINK ROWBOAT GIRLYMAN IS THEIR SPIRITUAL LIEGE

ANGRY MARINES ARE THE ONLY GOOD SPACE MARINES

>> No.13436478

>>13436387
Actually no.

You know those characters with "Chapter Tactics"? They don't follow the codex astartes.

Salamanders, Raven Guard, Iron Hands, White Scars, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves all don't follow the codex astartes.

Crimson fists don't follow it because they don't have the manpower to do so

Blood angels and Imperial fists do, but they venerate their own primarch over robert gullible

the rest of them are primarily ultramarines successors, so what do you think they'd do? Worship someone else?

>second foundings from other original legions follow their own primarchs, it's just that they aren't as numerous as the ultramarines were post-heresy

letting one errant writer ruin 40k for you is about as silly as taking 40k seriously. Picture related, it's some 40k lore describing your average inquisitor

>> No.13436528

>>13436478
YOU MAKE GOOD POINTS NON-ANGRY ONE

MAT WARD IS PISSING ME OFF MUCH LESS NOW, WHICH WILL ALLOW ME TO REDIRECT THIS ANGER TOWARDS THE ENEMIES OF THE IMPERIUM

>> No.13436593

>>13436478
>You know those characters with "Chapter Tactics"? They don't follow the codex astartes.
>Salamanders, Raven Guard, Iron Hands, White Scars, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves all don't follow the codex astartes.

What heresy is this? Space Wolves and Black Templar are the only chapters that explicitly don't follow the Codex, and the Dark Angels have bent it to the point of breaking. Every other chapter follows it.

>> No.13436633

>>13436593
Codex: Space Marines page 24

>Chapters in the second category are disciples who owe their genetic inheritance to another Primarch, but follow the Codex Astartes as keenly as their divergent heritage allows. While primarily composed of successor Chapters, this group also includes several Chapters of the First Founding - notably the Imperial Fists, White Scars and the Raven Guard. These chapters can never be Ultramarines, for their gene-seed is not that of Roboute Guilliman. Nevertheless, they will ever aspire to the standards and teachings of the great Primarch.

>The third and final group are aberrants, Chapters who, through quirk of gene-seed, mutation or stubbornness, eschew the Codex Astartes in favor of other structural and combat doctrines. Some, such as the Blood Angels and their successors, strive to be worthy of Guilliman's legacy, but their recalcitrant gene-seed drives them ever further from it. Others, such as the Space Wolves and the Black Templars, remain stubbornly independent, looking to their own founder's ways of war and caring little of how they fare in the eyes of others. These aberrant Chapters were always few in number and their presence diminishes with each passing decade, for their gene-seed is no longer the source of fresh Chapters.

It's clear that almost all Chapters want to be like the Ultramarines, but can't due to their inferior gene-seed.

>> No.13436649

>>13436593
> Iron Hands organize themselves into seven self-sufficient Clan Companies. They don't have a Chapter Master - all major decisions are made by the council made up of the heads of all seven Clan Companies
lookin real Codex there, bro.

>> No.13436723

>>13434070
>>13434179

according to Prospero Burns, the Space Wolves refer to themselves as the Vlka Fenryka in formal company, but usually just the Rout.

>> No.13436726

>>13436649
>They don't have a Chapter Master

Retconned.

Codex: Space Marines page 77
>I long for the day in which my entire Chapter can ride to war in transports such as these, vehicles whose rage can be given voice through their sanctified armament." >Kardan Stronos, ***Chapter Master*** of the Iron Hands

>> No.13436738

>>13436726

>> No.13436745

>>13436726
God dammit.

Well, the clan-companies thing is still in place, and there is a theory that chapter masters are only "elected" in times of trouble.

What thing is he talking about, that he wants to mount the entire Chapter in?

>> No.13436753

>>13436745

Razorbacks.

>> No.13436763

>>13436726
Matt Ward forgot that there are chapters that don't follow the codex

>> No.13436764

>>13436726

Matt Ward's fanfic isn't canon.

>> No.13436765

>>13436633
But it clearly says Raven Guard and White Scars follow the Codex. They aren't Guilliman's seed, but they follow the Codex.

Even Blood Angels follow the codex except where mutation forces their hand, dammit.

>> No.13436768

>>13436633
>>13436593
"follows it" is a loose term. Yes, they use the codex squad sized, but most of them only loosely follow it.

Most of the Primarchs disagreed with Guilliman's idea of standardizing the marines, and as such their chapters and successors do not really follow the codex.

The exceptions to this rule are the imperial fists (although their successors do not follow the codex) and Blood Angels (who were under Robute's arm after their primarch got killed)

Salamanders have an entirely different company structure, fewer companies, but larger in size. They also have a surplus of terminator suits and other high-quality warmachines due to their training methods

The iron hands are led by a conclave of dreadoughts, with their sergeants normally donning terminator armor into battle

The White scars (like the salamanders and iron hands) are organized differently from the codex at a company level. Although they can fight on foot, like any group of space marines, they focus on mobile warfare almost exclusively

Corax agreed with Guilliman (my mistake), but his chapter operates under vastly different strategms than the codex. The makeup of the chapter is also quite a bit different due to the standard of their equipment.

The Imperial fists are the only ones who actually went against their original principles and devoted themselves to the codex. And this is only due to Dorn's penance at having failed the Emperor. Their two successors don't follow the codex (by design, or by choice).

The Crimson fists are on the brink of extinction, and you think they're following codex? You funny, I kill you last.

Read the Codex under the impression that it's told from an Ultramarine's point of view. They're the chapter of Politicians

>> No.13436782

>>13436763

Matt Ward also forgot that the Iron Hands had any fluff at all, and forgot to give them a special character. I'm surprised he even knew they like technology.

>> No.13436791

>>13436753
razorbacks, RAZORBACKS

Our enemies hide in METAL BAWKSES! THE COWARDS! THE FOOLS!

WE......we shall take away...their metal BAWKSES!

>> No.13436798

>>13436768

Iron Hands have a Chapter Master like any other Chapter according to Ward.

>> No.13436811

>>13436768
>The Crimson fists are on the brink of extinction, and you think they're following codex?

"Brink of extinction" is not their normal state of affairs now, is it? They follow the codex in their chapter organization when they're at full strength. They don't have the numbers to adhere to the codex stipulations now, but that's not a choice they made is it?

>> No.13436824

>>13436798

too bad Matt Ward is wrong.

>> No.13436835

>>13436811
>They don't have the numbers to adhere to the codex stipulations now, but that's not a choice they made is it?
No, it's not. But it's certainly changed the way they operate to a non-codex strategy until the 6th edition book comes out.

>> No.13436864

>I WANT MY ENTIRE CHAPTER TO RIDE SIX TO A TRANSPORT IN RHINOS WITH GUNS STRAPPED ON TOP.

Yeah, that's Matt Ward's idea of how someone from a cool chapter would think. Fucking retard.

>> No.13436865

>>13436768 The iron hands are led by a conclave of dreadoughts, with their sergeants normally donning terminator armor into battle

Finally, I have something to throw back and that flufftard who keeps questioning my many-dreadnought army.

Captcha: broverse thq

>> No.13436911

>>13436865
Wait.

Wait wait wait.

Does that mean that Space Wolves can actually closely represent an Iron Hands army? Led by Bjorn and a pair of Venerable Dreads, Wolf Guard in termie armour seconded to squads?

Awesome.

>> No.13436917

>>13436782

Iron Hands got less attention than the Praetors of Orpheus in the Codex Chapters section of SM book, while all other Codex 1st Foundings and Crimson Fists got half a page.

In 5th edition rulebook Space Marine chapter highlight they weren't mentioned at all, unlike, say, Silver Skulls and Flesh Tearers. Guess who was the guy behind this?

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=5000004&_requestid=746584
>Mat Ward, who oversaw the new background section.

>> No.13436920

>>13436865

Index Astartes. the Wardex doesn't count because Ward doesn't give a shit about anyone but Ultramarines, so for him to even consider checking the fluff about any other chapter/founding legion would have been "too much work".

>> No.13436939

>>13436917
The chapters that get their own codices were hardly mentioned either.

Iron Hands confirmed for new standalone codex.

>> No.13436942

>>13436865
That's not entirely true. Sergeants in Terminator armour is 100% accurate, but the Chapter is not led entirely by Dreadnoughts. There is, however, at least one Clan Company whose leader is a Dreadnought (Warmaster Bannoth or something like that).

>> No.13436950

>>13436911

yes.

>>13436917

this.

fuck Ward. he's the reason we have to have a codex for every fucking chapter, because if he had his way the Space Wolves would revere Rowboat as their Spiritual Liege, and the Wulfen would be Space Wolves so overcome with despair at not being Ultramarines that they actually turned into Wolves.

and the Dark Angels' big secret would be that they weren't Ultramarines.

>> No.13436952

>>13436176

>Word Bearers? Thousand Sons? Emperor's Children? Black Legion? Death Guard? Alpha Legion?

I don't see any Night Lords. Why don't I see any Night Lords here?

What was this thread originally about? I forget.

>> No.13436961

>>13436917
They got a half a page of fiction. They killed more loyal Imperial citizens than enemies. -_____-

Ruthless =/= stupid.

>> No.13436966

>>13436939

Nope.

They were mentioned in Codex: Space Marines' Codex Chapters section.

Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Space Wolves (+Templars) were not, but the Iron Hands are as likely to get a codex as the Genesis Chapter.

>> No.13436974

>>13436939

>Iron Hands confirmed for new standalone codex.

I wish.

>>13436952

>What was this thread originally about? I forget.

how much of a fag Matt Ward is.

>> No.13436985

>>13436950
Blood Angels and Space Wolves had their own codices before Ward was involved, you know. But you're probably right, maybe it was his fault. Why don't you blame him for that big earthquake last year, too?

>> No.13437005

>>13436966
>They were mentioned in Codex: Space Marines' Codex Chapters section.

Which means they follow the Codex Astartes in some fashion, even if they have extreme variation within the Codex's bounds.

Ultras are like fundies who interpret the Codex Astartes literally; others like Salamanders and Iron Hands are more liberal but they're still "Codex Chapters."

>> No.13437018

>>13436387
>BLOOD RAVENS USED TO BE COOL BEFORE FUCKING INDRICK BOREALE
Oh but it's okay, he was a crappy commander and was killed. He's gone now.

He did seriously weaken the Chapter though.

>> No.13437021

>>13437005
Oh god....

Ultramarines are Space Catholics...
Iron Hands are like the Southern Baptist Evangelicals of the Codex.
FFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

>> No.13437024

>People acting like Ward is fully responsible for the Iron hands having no fluff
They have like nothing besides a couple pages in the old Index Astartes and a few BL appearances.

>> No.13437038

>>13437021
...Switch those. Evangelicals are much more fundamentalist than Catholics.

>> No.13437040

>>13436950
OK.

So my next question is, what should my next army be? Iron Hands or Space Carcharodon Sharks from Space?

I have the Iron Warrior battlesmith mini that would do VERY nicely for a counts-as something... And I might be able to get some large cyber-mastiffs to act as either cyberwolves or robotic Thunder Wolves (Or some up with something Iron Hands equivalent for the Thunderwolves, like replacing their legs with a Necron destroyer chassis or something)

>> No.13437044

>>13437038
But Catholics have the "original" text
Iron Hands have reinterpreted it to the point where it is no longer recognizeable.

>> No.13437050

>>13436864

Iron Hands used to have Terminator sergeants.

Guess Ward intends to retcon those out to fit the Iron Hands in Razorbacks.

>> No.13437052

>Calling Smurfs boring
>Jerk off to a chapter of personalityless robots

>> No.13437054

>>13437040
(forgot my pic. Those are 40mm bases)

>> No.13437065

>>13437044
Catholics are scum fit only to suck their pope's dick in hell.

>> No.13437072

>Implying the Codex is just chapter organization
>Ignoring the fact that is also a book of tactics, etc
Way to totally forget about the Iron Hands Apoc formation that draws from the Codex Astrates.

>> No.13437075

>>13437050

I'm sure he'd prefer to retcon Iron Hands out of ever even existing if he were able to.

>>13437052

>implying the guys who killed one in ten civilians for allowing Heresy on their planet have no personality

>> No.13437078

>>13437050
> Iron Hands
> Terminator Sergeants
> Loads of dudes in Razorbacks
Iron Hands confirmed for using Space Wolves codex.

>> No.13437094

I like all the comments that amount to
>Ward's fluff is not canon!
>Ward is wrong!
>We're only getting Space Marine books because of Ward!
>Ward's a retard!
While I agree 100% that Matt Ward is a talentless fuckstick, ask yourself this:

Who's the bigger idiot; Matt Ward or the morons who keep letting him write their books?

>> No.13437098

>>13437005
>Salamanders and Iron Hands are more liberal but they're still "Codex Chapters."
but not really. Their Primarchs disagreed with the codex and the meanings behind it, so they don't follow it. Think of them as less openly-hostile-and-divergent space wolves. They operated similarly to the codex before it was written, so it seems like they follow it afterwards. They did not change the way they operated because of it

Unfortunately, the ultramarines had the most guys, so the galaxy is overrun with their descendants. This also means that they can project whatever the hell they feel like onto the general "space marine image"

I'm not going to ignore years of background due to a handful of sentences.

>> No.13437103

>>13437021
He thinks Ultrasmurfs are Catholics, while the Black Templars are clearly the crusading Catholics of 40k.

>> No.13437111

Black Templars are the main violators of the Codex Astartes. Not only as a guide for the make-up of the chapter, but also tactics-wise. That's why Black Templars have Sword Brethren and prefer melee tactics to by-the-book chapters that primarily use bolters.

I like to think the Black Templars prefer such tactics because they get the job done better at the cost of more resources (i.e. Men). They have around 6,000 Marines, so they can afford to do it that way. Playing by the books would only hold them back.

>> No.13437124

>>13437044
But evangelicals are the ones who say "IT SAYS 7 DAYS IN GENESIS IT MUST HAVE BEEN 168 LITERAL HOURS" while other Christians like Catholics, Episcopals, Lutherans and so on are quick to say "Meh, it's a metaphor."

This is a dangerous path for the thread to take, so perhaps we should drop it very quickly. I was just using a metaphor by calling Ultras fundies, that's all.

>> No.13437125

>I don't like the new canon so I'll ignore it.
lol /tg/ confirmed for every sci fi fanbase since forever.

>> No.13437142

>>13437111
>I like to think the Black Templars prefer such tactics because they get the job done better at the cost of more resources
lol no it doesn't. They do it cause they're fucking zealots that prefer to see the face of the enemy.

>> No.13437145

>>13437125
> slowpokebreakingnews.jpg

>> No.13437171

>>13437072
>implying that using tactics from the codex implies you follow it
Tactics are tactics. Did you know that parts of the codex imperialis were written by the traitor primarchs? Pertabro basically wrote the chapter on siege assaults himself

Did you also know that space marines use the Codex Imperialis as well as the Codex astartes? As well as the teachings and strategies of their own primarchs and heroes?

>> No.13437174

>>13437098

uh. Ferrus Manus was dead when the Codex Astartes was written.

>>13437072

Which one? The shitload of Land Raiders that the Iron Hands and Imperial Fists used first, and then everyone else started using? The one the Iron Hands came up with where they used a drop podded Dreadnought with a teleport homer to bring in a shitload of Terminators?

>> No.13437187

>>13437142
Well besides that, a chainsword to the face is a lot more thorough a purge than just a few bolter shells. They can afford to do all kinds of shit is what I'm saying, whereas codex chapters have to be a lot more to the point as they can't afford it.

>> No.13437204

>>13437174
>uh. Ferrus Manus was dead when the Codex Astartes was written.
yeah I noticed that after I typed it out. Still, take a look at the Blood Angels. Same situation, different outcome

The Iron Hands are too proud to bow to another primarch, and it shows in their chapter organization (and although they have produced successors, these successors also fail to follow the codex astartes)

>> No.13437216

>>13437098
>Their Primarchs disagreed with the codex and the meanings behind it, so they don't follow it.

No. That's only true about the Space Wolves and the Black Templar.

>> No.13437237

>>13437216
>and the Imperial Fist successors
Fixed that.

>> No.13437301

Blood Ravens is best chapter because chaos is their leader, deal with it

>> No.13437305

>>13437216
no, the primarchs are split on it. Russ just took one extreme end of it. Most thought that the homogenization of the space marines was a bad idea.

The unfortunate truth is that the Ultramarines/Robute strong-armed the general imperium into following their vision, and there wasn't much the fractured legions could do about it

But even then, it does not meant that they all follow the codex. Salamanders, Iron Hands, etc, etc, all use their own book of rules to determine the makeup and operations of their chapter

Just because they know of and use the codex on occasion doesn't mean much. Space Marines/The imperium in general use strategy devised by the traitor primarchs knowingly. Does it make them traitors too?

>> No.13437310

>These Chapters can never be Ultramarines, for their gene-seed is not that of Roboute Guilliman. Nevertheless, they will ever aspire to the standards and teachings of the great Primarch.

>blah blah blah

>These aberrant Chapters are always few in number and their presence diminishes further with each passing decade, for their gene-seed is no longer the source of fresh Chapters.

I hate this fucking guy. I'm so glad I don't play Necrons, because he is going to take a huge steaming shit on their codex.

>> No.13437319

>>13437237
>Imperial Fist successors
>successors

If Dorn hadn't accepted the Codex, there wouldn't BE successors. Imperial Fists and their successors follow the Codex, with the exception of the Black Templar.

>> No.13437349

>>13437305
>no, the primarchs are split on it. Russ just took one extreme end of it. Most thought that the homogenization of the space marines was a bad idea.
>The unfortunate truth is that the Ultramarines/Robute strong-armed the general imperium into following their vision, and there wasn't much the fractured legions could do about it

I know. I'm not saying that all the Primarchs LIKED the Codex. They all resisted it. But Wolves and Templar are the only ones who said "fuck this shit, I'm going home." The other Primarchs didn't like the Codex but they grudgingly accepted following it in the end.

>> No.13437361

>>13437310
>I hate this fucking guy. I'm so glad I don't play Necrons, because he is going to take a huge steaming shit on their codex.
It really sucks that you're probably right. They're going to have personality now, which sucks. And probably personalities.

>> No.13437416

>>13437349

at least the Space Wolves can't be forced to do anything. the Ultrafags actually shot at the Imperial Fists to force them to follow the Codex Astartes. way to kick the guys who were actually on Terra defending the fucking Emperor when Horus showed up when they were down, oh great and noble Ultramarines we should all aspire to be like.

the Space Wolves would have wolfed the wolf out of Rouboute's wolf if they pulled that shit with them. and the Templars were basically like "fine, we'll go be a chapter..... they're not looking? okay, we're going to be a chapter of like three thousand. sweet."

Iron Hands, Salamanders and Raven Guards were cut down to Chapter size at Istvaan, so they pretty much had to just roll with it.

>> No.13437424

>>13437349
>The other Primarchs didn't like the Codex but they grudgingly accepted following it in the end.
but "following" in the loosest sense of the term. They have the book, but they sure as hell aren't by the book like the ultramarines and their successors

>> No.13437436

>mfw this whole topic

>> No.13437471

Ah superior fluff is superior

>> No.13437473

>>13437361

Personality is one thing, if it's a cool Borg/Skynet/Cylon style "personality". But the rumors about Necron Lords being crazy and delusional and believing that they are actual C'tan sounds like typical Ward-gaying-it-up to me.

Of my two favorite Space Marine chapters, one got totally shoved aside into the "oh here are some other Space Marines" section despite being a founding legion, and the other got an independent character who prompts screams of "CHEESE LIST" simply by being removed from a figure case.

I can't wait for the Necrons to have 15 special characters, with names like "The Necrocutionor" or "Necroticus, the Death Lord of Death", and one of them is riding a giant flying metal skull.

>> No.13437476

>>13437424
Isn't that what I said when I called the Ultras fundies? My point is that saying they don't follow the Codex is wrong. I'm not saying anything about how loosely or strictly they follow it.

In cases like the Salamanders it's very loosely indeed, but they don't outright break it. That's the misconception I was trying to correct, nothing more.

>> No.13437490

>>13437471

>HEY GUYS THIS GAME IS FOR PEOPLE WITH METAL BALLS

cool fluff bro

>> No.13437496

>>13437416

Raven Guard got down-sized from 80k Astartes to 300 Astartes. That's after the Istvaan Massacre.

>> No.13437508

>>13437496

Fuckin' Horus, man. I hate that fuckin' guy.

Pic related. It's Horus.

>> No.13437514

>>13437490
fluff means story

>> No.13437551

>>13437436
Ironhandsfag here
Ever since Chaos Gate, I can't truly hate Ultramarines, because it gave me the image of Ultramarines as they SHOULD be.

>> No.13437559

>>13437514

>implying that isn't the WarmaHordes story

>IN A WORLD WHERE ONLY PEOPLE WITH STEEL BALLS ARE ALLOWED TO PLAY THIS FUCKING GAME, WARCASTERS AND WARJACKS FUCK EACH OTHER'S SHIT UP, YOU BIG PUSSY.

>> No.13437571

>>13437471
Oh come on, dude. Don't start this shit again. You're giving the rest of us who play Warmahordes a bad fucking name here by trying such shit trolling.

Seriously, cut it out.

>> No.13437617

>>13437551

OtherIronHandsFag here.

I don't mind Ultramarines, as long as someone besides Matt Ward is writing them. Graham McNeill's series of novels is decent enough, even if Uriel Ventris is a bit of a Sue. That one part where he asks a Grey Knight "what are the rules?" in a "let's see if you're tainted by the Warp" duel, and the Grey Knight says "You are such an Ultramarine." and punches him cracked me up.

And the movie wasn't too bad, even if Abnett wrote them like Guardsmen. At least they didn't have sticks up their asses, and didn't say "COURAGE AND HONOUR" every five seconds.

>> No.13437621

>>13437476
>In cases like the Salamanders it's very loosely indeed, but they don't outright break it
We're going to have to agree to disagree here

They've only got seven regular companies, with each being significantly larger than a standard codex chapter. Their scout company is significantly smaller due to their own recruitment methods

Although that's all that we're given to go by, we can also assume that they have a more technological focus than other chapters (barring the iron hands), due to the nature of their homeworld/training/primarch's gifts. These are the guys that supply the adeptus mechanicus with raw materials

It's hard to outright say that a founding legion follows the codex (with the exception of the imperial fists) due to their whole shtick being that each legion was vastly different in methods and ideology. Although they have the codex looming over them, most only use it as a reference, rather than a sacred tome.

>> No.13437669

>>13437621
>We're going to have to agree to disagree here

Done. I don't think it's a serious disagreement either, we're both just trying to grasp the state of the canon the way the fluff is presented.

>> No.13437720

>>13437621
>>13437669

Now now, according to the rulebook, you guys still have to have a chainsword fight. It's a stupid rule, but so is giving a cover save to one guy who is completely exposed because the rest of his squad hid behind a wall while he jumped over it and in front of like ten dudes with boltguns.

>> No.13437737

>>13437669
haha, pretty much.

>> No.13437757

>>13437720
not as bad as being able to kill off an entire squad when you can only see one guy

but don't get me started on rules changes

>> No.13437791

>>13437757
Simply an issue of transfixing a fantasy or sci-fi battle to a full you-go-i-go turn system.

>> No.13437802

>>13437757
second. Nothing more infuriating than losing a whole squad of scouts because a sniper can see the top of a scout's hair.

>> No.13437830

>>13437757

Yeah, I was just recalling the time I made a fucking stupid-ass move. I forget whether it was an assault squad or a regular squad, but a 6" move put one guy completely in the open and the rest behind a wall.

One guy, completely in the open, in front of a squad of Thousand Sons.

I was all "you know, go right ahead, that guy was a dumbass glory-hound", but of course why kill one dude when you can force his entire squad to take cover saves?

Even dumber, it was the fuckin' sergeant.

Even dumber, that game somehow ended as a draw, despite me being a moron and letting that happen.

>> No.13437892

Haven't played 40k 5th ed yet. So 5th edition rules are, if one of the models in your squad can see just one of the models in the enemy squad, you can shoot at the whole squad? If more than half of the squad is in cover, the whole squad gets a cover save?

Not meaning to sound "WHAT IS THIS!?!?!!!1?" in that. Just curious.

Oh, another thing, what about weapon ranges? What if some of your squad members are in range with their lasguns or bolters, but others are not? Do only the ones in range fire?

>> No.13437924

>>13437416
>the Space Wolves would have wolfed the wolf out of Rouboute's wolf if they pulled that shit with them.

Even in the older fluff the Spacewolfs tried to make successor chapters like the codex said. Only problem is that the chapter they tried to make ended up becoming 100% wulfen and had to be purged. So they said 'fuck it!" and stuck to their old ways rather than have to deal with that again. Look up the Wolf Brothers Chapter if you want to read (what little is written) more on them.

>> No.13437931

>>13437892
If one model is visible, the whole squad can be shot at.

If half or more of the squad has cover, the whole squad has cover.

Base cover save has been improved from 5+ to 4+. Basically, everyone who's not autistic gets carapace armour.

>> No.13437934

>>13437892

yeah, pretty much.

>> No.13437963

>>13437931

Yeah, a 50% chance of not dying is good. Especially if you're being shot at with shit like Thousand Sons and their AP3 bolters. or some assholes who have a fuckton of meltaguns.

>> No.13437980

Is it possible to have a Chapter Master or Company Captain that is a dreadnaught? How would that work on the tabletop?

>> No.13437991

>>13437980
That would just mostly be represented by a normal Dreadnought for a Captain and a Venerable for Chapter Master

>> No.13437993

>Base cover save has been improved from 5+ to 4+.
What about weapon ranges, as I asked above?
And what's the deal with all the mech lists? Point cost reduction in foot models affected transports too?

>> No.13438000

>>13437963

The main thing I worry about if I'm playing someone actually using Thousand Sons is if I'm going to hurt myself with laughter.

>> No.13438016

>>13437993

Armor tables are very tough now.
No more metal coffins if it blows up.
35 point rhinos (Hmm, did it save me two marines over the course of the game...not to mention the mobility? Yes please)
Contest objectives

>> No.13438030

>>13437993
Most weapons revolve around 12" sweet spot. Most troops have 12" range where they shoot twice, and over that, shoot once up to 24".

Mech lists are prevalent because Transports were cheapened, new vehicle rules makes them somewhat more durable, and it just gives you a ton of maneuverability and protection from small arms fire

>> No.13438052

>>13437963
The problem I have is that it devalues the 3+ save. I pay premium points for my 3+ save (Codex marines, not Broken Angels or Space Yiffs). Meanwhile, Imperial Guard pays 5 points (7 for Vets, but vets always have cars) for putzes with 5+ saves, and yet because of the ease of getting a cover save and the incredibly generous save bonus it provides, they get armor almost as good as mine - that can't be defeated with AP.

>> No.13438060

>>13437980

I think the current Blood Angels and Space Wolves codices have Dreadnoughts in HQ spots. Otherwise I guess I'd just go with a Venerable Dreadnought.

It's too bad Venerable isn't an upgrade anymore. I'd love to have an Ironclad Venerable Dreadnought as a Captain or Chapter Master for my coghead Marines.

>> No.13438072

>>13438052

Template weapons, though.

Flamestorm Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Breath of Chaos, etc.

>> No.13438078

>>13438060
Would they still have a command squad, though?

>> No.13438086

>>13438060
>I think the current Blood Angels and Space Wolves codices have Dreadnoughts in HQ spots.

False in both counts, I'm afraid. It'd be cool though.

>> No.13438094

>>13438052

Sounds like someone hasn't adjusted to 5th Edition yet.

Flamers and melta. Blow up the metal boxes, negate their cover. If you play vanilla marines, take Speeders with HF/MM, Tacs with ML/Flamers and Thunder Terms....that list still stands up to pretty much anything...

>> No.13438100

>>13438086
Aw... Welp, I guess it's time to house-rule some HQ dreadnaughts.

>> No.13438114

>>13438086

Bjorn is an HQ in the SW codex.

>> No.13438121

>>13438086

Space Wolves have Bjorn so that is true.

BA can have Librarian Dreads but they are Elite choices.

>> No.13438125

>>13438114
Does he get a command squad?

>> No.13438132

>>13438086
Space Wolves have a special character HQ dread. Bjorn the Fell-Handed. One more reason why I would use Space Wolves dex for Iron Hands armies.

>>13438072
There are very few armies that can really use templates in abundance. Template-wielding units have to get close. Deep strikers can usually manage it, but most units have to weather a torrent of fire to bring those templates to bear. Meanwhile, cover-using shooty armies just sit around with their free carapace armour and rape face.

>> No.13438140

>>13438078

apparently not. even though Blood Angels give out Command Squads like candy (they just renamed them Honor Guard, and Honor Guard is Sanguinary Guard), a Librarian Dread somehow doesn't become an HQ choice, so it can't take one.

I guess you could also take a Techmarine with a Servo-harness and either Servitors or a Sternguard Squad to act as a sort-of Command Squad that can repair the Dread.

>> No.13438147

>>13438125

lulz, no but man that would be fun.

Hello gentlemen, my army is a DREADNOUGHT YIFF COUNCIL. My entire army is AV 13 with 4+ Inv (Reroll with no psy tests). If you shoot at my dreads, Dex says I get to kick you in the nuts. You can have first turn, no need to roll.

>> No.13438149

>>13438125

Space Wolves don't have command squads

>> No.13438151

>>13438030
That didn't answer my question about ranges. I'll put it here again.

What if some of your squad members are in range with their lasguns or bolters, but others are not? Do only the ones in range fire?

>> No.13438168

>>13438151
That's still true. Only weapons in range get to fire.

>> No.13438170

>>13438151

Correct, measurement is still done from model to model.

>> No.13438172

>>13438151

yeah.

>> No.13438183

Alright, well at least that part makes sense. Thanks.

>> No.13438189

>>13438147

I would love to have a Captain or Chapter Master Dread with a Dreadnought Command Squad. 4 regular Dreads, one Techmarine Dread.

Yes, that's right. A dreadnought with a servo-harness, Blessing of the Omnissiah and Bolster Defences.

>> No.13438220

>>13438189

Heh, well you have cool friends? Then make the rules and play it...I would let any of my friends do that shit if they spent time converting it.

SW codex is logical for Iron Hands;

Bjorn HQ
Terminator Sgts = Wolf Guard leading Grey Hunters
Iron Priests + Servitors/Cyber Wolves
Thunder Wolf Cav = Mini tanks or some shit
etc.

>> No.13438221

>>13438140
That's what I was thinking of doing, or maybe an assault command squad with flamers and powerfists and such.
>>13438147
WALL OF STEEL, I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER MY WALL OF STEEL, ahaha
>>13438149
Hm, I did not know that. I need to read up on these new codexes...

>> No.13438243

Non-codex, you say?

>> No.13438244

>>13438149

Well Wolf Guard can be kitted out in much the same way...

>> No.13438259

>>13438220
nah. For Iron hands;

Grey hunters = tacticals but better
Wolf guard terminator in every grey hunter squad
Bjorn
some Iron priests and heavy tanks to taste

avoid thunderwolves, because thunderwolves are stupid unless you're running them as Khorne Juggernaut riders

>> No.13438274

>>13438220

Yeah, I'm working out a homebrew codex for my Chapter. It's mostly little adjustments, like having Scouts have the same starting cost as a tactical squad, but also the same statline, armor aside. The idea being that they've taken extra training in recon duty, that's why they get scout, infiltrate and move through cover. The new guys who can't shoot as well don't get to do important stuff, they're stuck on guard duty. Or fighting enemies who are all "OFFICIAL GW CODEXES ONLY".

And, because they're supposed to be Iron Hands descendants, an Iron Father which is literally just slapping together a Chaplain and a Techmarine. Base cost 150 points, best stats from each, all of the special rules and options from both. HQ choice.

>> No.13438290

>>13438259

I thought Grey Hunters were just tactical squads without Sergeants. Although being able to drop Terminators in like an Iron Hands Sergeant is rad.

Wolf Guard are so ridiculously awesome.

>> No.13438298

>>13438220
> Thunder Wolf Cavalry - CC Dreadnoughts in squadron

Seriously, think about it. Just give em claws or fists and let em run through the enemy like crap through a goose.


I made an Apoc Datasheet of a Council of Anciente that was composed of 3-10 Dreadnoughts, 1-3 of whom must be Venerable, and 1 of whom could get a Commander upgrade.

>> No.13438305

>>13438274
>Yo dawg we herd you like Iron Hands and SpaceWolves
nice.

>> No.13438309

>>13438290
they are

but they can take two special weapons like the 4th edition tacticals

and they have counter charge (and I think bp+ccw in addition to the bolter?)

>> No.13438315

I am very glad I play Word Bearers.

>> No.13438329

>>13438309

ah, right. that's so Matt Ward to have it so you can only take an assault weapon and a heavy weapon, rather than two assault weapons or two heavy weapons.

>> No.13438336

>>13438315
How's it feel to be a part of the loser chapter?

>> No.13438340

>>13438315

>I am very glad my Chaos Legion doesn't have Chaplains anymore.

>> No.13438350

I can't remember if this is still canon, or where it is, but basically the Iron Hands consider Ultramarines a bunch of pansy-ass pussies, due to the Ultramarines were JUST AS FAR AWAY from heresy attacks, as the Iron Hands were, and the Iron Hands still showed up to defend the Emprah, and lost their primach in the battle, while the Ultramarines didn't show up.

>> No.13438351

>>13438329
well, they can't have one book being able to make several different armies, now could they?

Fuck what they did to the Doctrines systems. It should have been implemented into all the different races instead of ten billion imperial codexes to a handful of xeno ones

>and I play imperials

>> No.13438353

>>13438329
Well, no, you can still two heavy weapons.

>> No.13438354

>>13438336
How's it feel to be Ultramarines with extra Psykers?

>> No.13438384

>>13438350

I think the Iron Hands just went back to Medusa after Istvaan, since they had just gotten ambushed by seven whole legions. Last I checked, it was the Imperial Fists and White Scars protecting Terra, with the Imperial Army, Adeptus Custodes and loyalist AdMech.

I could be wrong about that. But the Ultramarines were definitely on the other side of the galaxy whenever something important was happening during the entire Horus Heresy. The only things they did were defend themselves from the Word Bearers and have Garro show up to kidnap a Librarian to found the Grey Knights with.

>> No.13438397

>>13438336
>Word Bearers
>chapter

>Captcha: You parept
Yes you are that as well

>> No.13438407

>>13438384
no, you're right on all accounts.

Iron hands, raven guard, and salamanders were pretty much out of the picture after the massacre

7 on 3 ain't good odds. Ultramarines didn't do shit during the heresy

>> No.13438415

>>13438353
This is completely untrue.

4th ed Marines could only have 1 special and 1 heavy.

The difference is that now, 5-man squads can't take a special OR a heavy weapon - you have to buy the whole squad - but you can combat squad however you want.

>> No.13438417

>>13438353

I meant in a Tactical Squad, not Grey Hunters. 0-1 assault weapon, 0-1 heavy weapon.

And then there's that retarded 3 point cost on Storm Bolters for HQs and Sergeants, making sure my list is always over or under by one or two points. Now I just mark 'em as 5 points.

Although a Sergeant can take a Storm Bolter, so technically you can have two Assault Weapons in a tactical squad, but only if one of them is a Storm Bolter.

>> No.13438433

>>13438384
Yeah, that sounds about right, the Iron Hands got the most decimated of all the loyalist chapters during the war. Though the Iron Hands were on the other side of the galaxy too, if I recall correctly, but jammed their elite forces into their fastest ships, and got to where they were needed. I remember reading they felt the other chapters/primachs were wusses due to fleeing Istavaan.

>> No.13438439

>>13438384
>>13438384


Mostly right but don't forget about the most badass Primarch there was; Sanguinius and the Angels defending Terra as well. If it wasn't for Sang, Terra would be a rape dome for Fulgrim and friends.

>> No.13438440

>>13438415
Oh, I thought you were talking about dreadnoughts. Sorry.

>> No.13438443

>>13438415

>The difference is that now, 5-man squads can't take a special OR a heavy weapon - you have to buy the whole squad - but you can combat squad however you want.

I hate that shit so hard.

>>13438407

Yeah, but it does make the Raven Guard, Salamanders and Iron Hands more badass that they were able to survive that kind of massive curbstomping. (although I'm sure Ward would love to retcon it so only the Raven Guard and Salamanders survived. grumblegrumble.)

>> No.13438444

>>13438415
>4th ed Marines could only have 1 special and 1 heavy.
no, with the doctrines (or whatever they were called) you could take a second special weapon in place of a heavy weapon. I played salamanders, it was an idea taken from the armageddon book, like the adamantine mantle (salamander mantle)

>> No.13438449

>>13438407

Well, except for defeat the Word Bearer Legion and Daemon Friends.

>> No.13438453

>>13438439

Oh, shit, right. And right after they'd had to deal with some super-Bloodthirster, too.

>> No.13438471

>>13438449
But the word bearers are only -one- legion, when the ultramarines had a pocket empire and inflated numbers

The bro-trio took on more than double their number in space marines and orbital assets, while dong a costly siege operation

>>13438443
>Yeah, but it does make the Raven Guard, Salamanders and Iron Hands more badass that they were able to survive that kind of massive curbstomping.
totally. It's no small surprise they're the coolest/most awesome loyalist legions

>> No.13438488

>>13438444

good ol' Salamanders, with their cheaper Artificer Armor and being able to apply the "LOL NO MELTA FOR U" armor to most of their vehicles.

>> No.13438505

>>13438488
don't forget signums for all sergeants. Twin linked heavy weapons in my tacticals? yes please

>> No.13438514

I still want 5e rules for an Iron Father.

>> No.13438516

>>13438471

>totally. It's no small surprise they're the coolest/most awesome loyalist legions

which is, of course, why Ward dicked them over.

I'd love to know why he thought it would be a good idea to have Command Squads not be able to take Jump Packs. They can take Bikes, but not Jump Packs. What?

>> No.13438518

Imperial armour is shit. I mean, the land raider only 300mm of conventional steel armour? fuckthatshit.

thats been retconned by all other fluff

>> No.13438527

>>13438514

Yeah, next best thing is the Master of the Forge, who is a pimp. But I want a guy with a Crozius that has a Cog on it who can repair shit and also make a squad re-roll missed attacks when assaulting.

>> No.13438539

>>13438518
>conventional steel
No.jpg.png.exe

>> No.13438560

>>13438518

>only 300mm
>about a foot
>only

>> No.13438575

>>13438444
oh. I'd forgotten about that Trait. I usually took the one that let me have extra Breadnoughts, because FUCK YES BREADNOUGHTS.

>> No.13438584

>>13438471

One legion with the full might of the Dark 4 Chaos Gods behind them.

>> No.13438602

>>13438453

Yeah, everyone always talks about the Fists...but really if you look at the background it was the Blood Angels and Sang that saved their asses.

An argument can be made for Khan as well at the spaceport...but Sang killed the Lord of Thirsters, defended the Wall, moralized the other defenders, knowingly went to his doom on the barge to weaken Horus.

He was the stuff.

>> No.13438611

>>13438560
300mm of plain steel, as opposed to fancy-schmancy specially made armour composites.

>> No.13438635

>>13438602

well it was really just solid teamwork. Fists held the line, Scars disrupted the enemy, Blood Angels and Custodes kicked ass and took names wherever the traitors broke through, and then they all teleported to the Event Horizon for the final boss battle.

>> No.13438637

>>13438584
compared to seven legions with the powers of the four dark gods behind them, and the high ground, and the benefit of surprise

>> No.13438665

>>13438539
>>13438560
300mm of conventional steel is nothing compared to cold war era tanks.

and, thats in the IA2. anyway, going by the other fluff, either thats been retconned, or "conventional steel" means plasteel.

>> No.13438670

>>13438635
You are now imagining how the battle went down in Final Fantasy VI graphics. Both in combat, and troop movements.

>> No.13438693

>>13438637

FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, THE EMPEROR IS DARK.

>> No.13438695

>>13438665
I've always assumed it meant plasteel, because then the durability of a land raider can be whatever the hell the writers want

>> No.13438706

>>13438693
Nobody cares about what you think, you armless bastard. You can't even fap.

>> No.13438712

>>13438637

Against 3 Legions + the Custodes + Terra Fortifications.

And what the hell do you mean surprise? It took over a year for Horus to reach Terra and Dorn was building fortifications the entire time. They knew Horus was coming for quite some time before he arrived.

The Word Bearer attack coupled with a Daemonic Invasion...now that was a surprise. But the Ultras whipped their ass.

Ultramarines and Blood Angels. Face it. They own you.

>> No.13438728

>>13438695
I dunno.

>> No.13438744

Fucking John Blanche. You are so shitty but your shitscribbles always make me want to pull out my Chaos Marines and add more shit to them.

>> No.13438747

>>13438712
what are you talking about? I'm talking about the Istvaan Massacre


The Istvaan Massacre was a massacre BECAUSE the four support legions turned out to have been traitors all along, and had perfectly prepared themselves to gun down the loyalists as they retreated to reform their lines

In comparison, fighting one legion would be a walk in the park

>> No.13438792

>>13438747

I thought you were talking about the Siege of Terra.

Well fuck, compared to Istvaan anything would be a walk in the park. That wasn't even a 'battle', that was simply an ambush.

You can't discredit what the Ultramarines did against the Word Bearers. They were the most daemon heavy legion and had the complete element of surprise, yet the boys in blue kicked their ass...then headed to Terra. In fact, it's mentioned several times in the older fluff that the reason Horus pushed to hard (and lowered his shields) was because his astropaths told him the Space Wolves/Ultramarines were only a month away. Horus shit bricks when he heard the Ultras were coming.

The Ultras saved us all.

>> No.13438848

>>13438792
you forgot the dark angels, they were also on the way.

As for fighting off the word bearers, I don't know. It just doesn't seem significant. They were fighting on their own turf.

Maybe I'm just trying to find reasons to dislike the Ultramarines. A shame, because I really liked them during 2nd/3rd edition

>> No.13438932

>>13438848


Well in fairness, my last post was a bit troll mode. I have about zero reaction to the Ultras (although I don't understand the hate).

Honestly, the legions that most appealed to me from the heresy were Blood Angels/Scars.

>> No.13439022

>>13438932

>(although I don't understand the hate).

Matt Ward likes them. Therefore /tg/ hates them.

>> No.13439116

>>13439022
more accurately, the fluff behind them has gotten more and more ridiculous at the expense of the rest of the space marines

The badab war books (all IA books, really) are great for two reasons; 1) No illogical ultramarine superheroes saving the day 2) A variety of chapters that are well written and unique; reminiscent of older (better) fluff that used to be more commonplace (in white dwarves, codexes, and other sources)

It's not solely Matt Ward's fault, he's just the most prominent

>> No.13439128

How about someone links a DL link for Imperial Armor Volume 10, thanks.

>> No.13439193

>>13439116
It's not that the fluff got MORE ridiculous. It's that it reverted to the 2nd edition "codex: ultramarines" mode but they didn't call it "codex: ultramarines." It's a codex that claims to represent something like 90% of all space marines, and yet "makes no bones about" (to use Ward's own words) how amazing the Ultramarines are and how all other Mariens are poopy neenerheads by comparison, especially those poor unfortunate genetic deviants.

>> No.13439204

>>13439193
haha, yeah.

>> No.13439216

>>13439128

not out yet as far as I know.

also,
>my face when my local GW store started carrying IA books and at least one of them was $90

>> No.13439229

>>13439216

...Taros Campaign.

Why does the one with the Tau have to be most expensive?

>> No.13439255

>>13439229

that's the one.

and why do any of them have to be more expensive than Visions of Heresy or Liber Chaotica?

Oh, right. Forge World.

>> No.13439324

As an Iron Hands person, the Istvaan Dropsite Massacre wasn't as large a contingent of Iron Hands as some people are making it out to be. The Iron Hands were one of the older and larger Legions before the heresy, and when Ferrus Manus got word of the Heresy he sent his equivalent of the 1st Company (Terminators, Vet Squads etc) to the planet in the fastest ships available.

The Raven Guard and Salamanders featured significantly larger formations but they didn't have the same quantity of veterans at the time of the ambush.

If I recall correctly, something like 80% of the Iron Hands were still around after Istvaan, but they were literally in the ass-end of space and had no reasonable chance of getting to Istvaan or Terra in any reasonable amount of time. The fact is that Ferrus Manus dying just made them meaner and more determined than before the Heresy, except that most of the experience had been bled out of the Legion.

>> No.13439335

>>13439128

http://www.avaxdownload.com/bef/dl/the+badab+war+part+2+torrent.html

or

http://win7dl.com/download/badab+war+part+2+megaupload.html

But pretty sure neither are legit.

>> No.13439387

>>13439324
The loss was comparable, in a sense. At least the other two got out with a chunk of their veterans (and their primarchs)

>> No.13439423

IA 10 Special Characters:

Captain Pellas Mir'san - Salamander captain who isnt really worth talking about
Brayarth ashmantle - salamander venerable ironclad with 2 heavy flamers which can also fire as a tl melta. Similar rule to monoliths living metal. Can engulf everyone with flmes in cc.
Ahazra redth- mantis warrior librarian which swaps combat tactics for infiltrate, good a seizing initive and delaying enemy reserves
Thusa kane - executioner chaplain with big axe, his squad can reroll failed NoRetreat armour saves. Everyone within12" reroll 1s to wound in assault
Ivanus Enkomi - minotaur chaplain that gives unit +2 attacks when charging
Asterion moloc - minotaur chapter master who gives preffered enemy to units
Tyberos - that carcharodon guy who can choose between lc or chainfist, fc chapter tactics who get rage. Can take a terminator wth lightning claws squad as troops
Silas Alberec - exorcist captain with auto wounding thunderhammer vs pskers and daemons
Zhurukhal Androcles, star phantom captain with elite devastators
Vaylund cal- t6 sons of medusa chapter master/master of the forge. Fnp devastators.

The siege list is nice. Ironclad and siege dreadnaughts in a squad of 3 as troop that act independent, mantlets for tactical squads that let ypu rerolls failed armoured saves agaijst shooting attacks.
An assault squad with dedicated land raider who can all take combat shields and meltabombs
The siege master gives tank hunters or furious charge to one squad and can reroll reserve rolls in a battle mission.

>> No.13439439

>>13439423
>Captain Pellas Mir'san - Salamander captain who isnt really worth talking about
he has some rules involving taking duels, and such. From what the guy wrote later. Seems like a souped up Chapter Champion

but yeah, nothing special comapaed to the other characters

>Brayarth ashmantle - salamander venerable ironclad with 2 heavy flamers which can also fire as a tl melta. Similar rule to monoliths living metal. Can engulf everyone with flmes in cc.
>shut up and take my money
hopefully it gets a model... even as a "generic salamander venerable dreadnought" chassis. Most of the other legions have gotten one already..

>> No.13439445

>>13439423
>>13439423

to continue for those who don't know:

Captain Zhrukhal Androcles, Captain of the Star Phantoms 9th Company "Siegebreaker"
WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W3(?) I5 A3 Ld10 Sv3+
Power armour, power fist, combi-melta, frag and krak grenades, Iron Halo
ATSKNF, Combat Tactics, Independent Character, "Master of destruction", "Commander of the 9th Company"
Also has the usual Company Captain 'can-take-a-HQ-command-squad-but-it-doesn't-count-as-an-HQ-choice' rule from the main SM Codex.

'Master of destruction' =
"Once per turn, either Zhrukhal Androcles, or a single chosen Space Marine unit within 6" of Androcles may gain the benefit of his extensive experience and skill in taking out enemy fortifications and vehicles. The chosen unit adds +1 to their rolls on the damage chart against all targets (including buildings and [bastions?]) with an Armour Value that turn. This bonus is cumulative with any other bonus gained as a result of a weapon's special rules, etc."

'Commander of the 9th Company' =
"Zhrukhal Androcles' personal forces comprise his Chapter's heavily armed 9th Company
Devastator reserve. As such, if Zhrukhal Androcles is present in the army, then Devastator squads may be taken as Elite as well as Heavy Support choices."

>> No.13439457

>>13439445
>24+ missile launcher lists
:)

>> No.13439469

>>13439445
Vaylund Cal

WS5 BS5 S5 T6 W3 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv2+
-Artificer Armor
-Iron Halo
-Thunder Hammer
-Servo Harness

Combat Tactics for Fearless
Devastators get Feel no Pain
Blessing of the Omnissiah as Master of Forge/Techmarine
Must be mounted on 40mm Base
Cannot take Chaptermasters
Lord of the Armor as SM Master of Forge

>> No.13439479

>>13439423

as much as I love Salamanders and Iron Hands (or at least their Successors in this case), Minotaurs sound nicely brutal and Devastators as Elites would be great - lots of tanks and antitank weapons in the same list.

>> No.13439491

>>13439457

SW can do that iirc and they have split fire.

>> No.13439579

>>13439491
well good for the space wolves

unfortunately, the Badab war has nothing to do with them

>> No.13439591

>>13439579

No. IA11 does, though.

>> No.13439614

Space Sharks sound cool.

heavy drop pod army, lots of dreds, and terminators. I would have expected landspeeders or something.

What else would a fluffy Space Shark list have? What would the HQ be? Maybe the jump-pack special character?

>> No.13439625

>>13439614

Sea Speeders.

>> No.13439643

I like how Aerilon the Faithful seems to have gotten the Space Sharks/Carcharadons right - pale skin, black eyes from the Raven Guard geneseed, plus the updated style.

I just wish they actually had shark fins on their helmets. That's awesome.

>> No.13439669

>>13439591
True enough, against Eldar no less

since I can't wish for -both- side to lose.. I'm at a loss

>>13439614
Land-Shark cavalry with shark tooth necklaces and shark's teeth claws

>> No.13440599

bump for scans

>> No.13440619

>>13440599
there will never be scans

>> No.13440641

GIVE ME SOME MOTHER FUCKING SCANS.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT I SHOULD DO, TRUESCALE A GREY KNIGHT ARMY OR TRUESCALE ONE OF THESE BADAB WAR ARMIES.

MOTHER FUCKERS.

ARE THESE CHARACTERS AND SHIT TOURNAMENT LEGAL?

SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS, TOO EXCITED.

>> No.13440666

SSSCCCAAANNNSSS

>Scarge growing

>> No.13440674

>>13437052
Its not the Smurfs.
I personally liked Ultramarines concept. They fill certain niche.

Its that Wardian Heresy that I hate, which turns all into either Ultramarines or eradicates them from history.
Either you worship Roboute Guilliman or you end up retconned out.

>> No.13440677

>>13440599
>>13440666
>>13440641
Oh, look, the scanfag showed up.

>> No.13440786

>>13440641

dude, the marine models are already true scaled. Jes -mother-fucking- Goodwin designed them that way. Compare a marine to one of the older metal guardsmen in a similar pose

If you want to make them bigger, just straighten the legs to fix their posture.

The current definition of "true scale" Isn't really true-scale at all.

>also, there won't be scans for a long while, so don't beg. It'll only prolong your suffering

>> No.13440820

I mean art-scale I guess.

Also, marines aren't truescaled currently, sorry.

I had an army half done to be honest, they were supposed to be blood angels but I wouldn't have to change much for them to be another chapter.

Are the HQs from this book legal in GW tournaments or no? That would pretty much decide whether or not I do a Badab War army or not.

>> No.13440891

>>13440786

Jes -mother-fucking- Goodwin doesn't know anything. Have you not seen that picture of him sitting infront of the "lifesize" drawing of a space marine.

The one where it lists the height as 8ft tall because the idiot started counting the height from 1 not 0.

Regardless of what you want to call it, true scale, real scale, art scale...etc...etc...what it means is correct proportions.

GW miniatures are "heroic scale" which means they have especially large arms and heads and generally oddly proportioned everything else.

Of course no doubt you already know that and are just being an arse. At the end of the day though if you like your monkey armed marines good for you, personally I think it looks shite.

>> No.13440901

>>13440820
Oh, just go away.

>> No.13440955

>>13440820
>Also, marines aren't truescaled currently, sorry.
That's only because the plastic cadians fucked up everything, scale-wise

Take a look at the grenade-throwing guardsman and the standard bolter marine. They've got the same leg positioning, and are perfectly in scale. Straighten the marine even further (the commander) and you've got one that looks normal beside the (freakishly huge) cadian plastics

But yeah, Art-scale marines looks snazzy, I don't deny. I just dislike it when they're called -true scale-

>Are the HQs from this book legal in GW tournaments or no? That would pretty much decide whether or not I do a Badab War army or not.
Depends on the tournament organizer, really. Ask around at stores, show them the rules. If they don't have a stick up their ass, they'll let you. You gotta do the legwork and actually ask them, though

>> No.13440974

>>13440955
Forgeworld tends to write shitty rules so they are usually disallowed.

>> No.13440976

>>13440891
see >>13440955

the plastic marine kits were designed to be in scale with the metal guardsmen. This is the scale the entire range was based on. The Cadian plastics threw that scale out the window, which is why people started true scaling their marines

Although marine styled after the artwork look great, they are not in scale with the tabletop game (which is 28mm, with art scale miniatures being closer to 32mm).

>> No.13441008

>>13440955
you're not serious right? because the scale of GW models has been whack since, I dunno, time immemorial.

The only thing space marines scale to are other space marines, and then they fuck up even doing that with their fuckhueg bald heads.

the only models that look remotely correctly sized are the tiny bald men inside terminator armor without a helmet on, and even then the rest of the human form is incapable of sitting inside that brick. The armpits alone are at the neck line.

>> No.13441053

Hmm. I wonder what Badab War chapter I should do?

Space Sharks obviously is the coolest name - Fuck that Megalodon shit. Could do some dirty landraider spam lists with them, too.

Sons of Medusa sound cool as well, but I don't know any of their fluff.

D:

Has lexicanum been updated with their new fluff yet?

>> No.13441094

>>13441008
check any marine kit released after the tactical squad box

they all use the same base

compare them with eldar guardians, ork boyz, any of the aspect warriors, the metal guardsmen, etc, etc

GW has kept the scale of space marines and aliens fairly consistent, as most of the plastic kits released around that time defined the scale of their race. Eldar and Orks are roughly the same size as marines. The metal Guardsmen (which were not going to see plastics for -years-) are in scale with all of those models. Sisters of battle and the Steel Legion follow the scale trend, too. Compare them with marines and you'll see what I mean.

I'm not saying that the scale GW set was the best, or most realistic, but it was at least consistent with the background while still allowing an adequate amount of detail for a tabletop game. I wish I had a plastic cadian on hand to show you, but they look ridiculous beside one of their metal counterparts. Football pads versus realistic armor aside, the guardsman is the same height as guardians, boyz and marines...

>> No.13441120

>>13441053
The sons of medusa are iron hands with an even more hard-line approach to technology and the adeptus mechanicus

Bright green with white helmets makes them really stand out on the tabletop, and their badab character is some badass huge bionic dude

Space shorks are cool, and allow you to stick chain-bayonets on all your guns, and their character is a terminator with lightning chainfist claws

win-win situation, I'd say. Pick the one who has the coolest colours to you

>> No.13441169

>>13441120

Thank you.

I still feel like I need more information, though.

Sons of Medusa look great on the table but tech marines are garbage.

Space Sharks sound great, but what's the bayonet chain weapon thing about? Are they still codex grey and boring?

>> No.13441213

>>13441169

The Sons of Medusa are more dreadnought(can be taken in both HS and Elite slots) or devastator (FNP) based. Their special character is the only one with Master of the Forge/Techmarine Abilities, and he's WS5 T6 W3 with 2+/4++ saves and three S10 Thunderhammer attacks and one S8 servo-arm attack on a charge.

Also makes units with Combat Tactics fearless.

>> No.13441280

>>13441169
they're now more of a blue-grey with white/light grey mouth-plates (the "beak" on the beakies, and that area on non-beakies)

the chain-bayonets are a forgeworld piece that comes with some of their bolters reminiscent of the old RTB01 plastics. Their character (with the lightning chain claw fists) allows you to take lightning claw terminators as troops, as well as giving them rage(? I think)

You don't actually need to take techmarines for the Sons of Medusa. Although, master of the forge's are great. Plus, the character in the book has the rules for a chapter master (orbital bombardment), the master of the forge (and all his benefits), and the option to make any devastators in your army feel no pain (if you model them with bionics)

however, both can play any type of army build, really. Space shorks focus on the choppy, Sons of Medusa focus on the shooty, but what really matters is enjoying what they look like, as you'll be painting an entire army of them

I suggest waiting until scans of the chapter pages get released (as well as checking out the first book, which I think is on /rs/), just to make double sure that you know which army to choose

>> No.13441333

>>13438792

Whoa now, not quite. It was true the Ultramarines were on their way...but they were much farther out. It was the Space Wolves and the -Dark Angels- that were really close.

>> No.13441348

>>13439591
Totally gonna give them back their Leman Russ Tanks. At the very least they are going to get the Exterminator back, probably going to give them ALL the Leman Russ variants.

*Prays to the God Emperor for BS4 Punisher*

>> No.13441358

>>13441213

Can they take Ironclad Dreads as Heavies as well?

>> No.13441376

>>13441358
think it works for all types of dread (though I haven't looked at the master of the forge section in awhile)

but you're going to want at least one set of devastators for the FnP ability, in my opinion

>> No.13441392

>>13441094
You know who are not scaled correctly?

Necrons. Warriors are like 7-8 feet tall and Immortals/Lords are supposed to be 9-10 feet tall. Wraiths are around 15-20 feet long.

>> No.13441411

>>13441213

Why is a cyborg marine not only better than Karamazov on his throne in CC, but can slag him with one hammer swing?

>> No.13441433

>>13441411
because he is more machine than man

also karamazov was released at a time when special characters were awful.

I'm not sure I like the trend, personally. But it is what it is, and the badab war is one of my favorite bits of ye olde backgrounde, so I don't mind it in this case

>> No.13441523

So how does the Badab War list look like?

Many of the BFG vets over at the Specialist Games forum are convinced that there's game breaking stuff like the original Seditio Opprimere of the Ultramarines or Nova Cannon frigates and fluff retcons saying that Marines now have the most powerful Imperial spacefleets.

>> No.13441536

>>13441392
It means the Necrontyr must have had roughly the same skeletal size as the Eldar. Maybe the Old Ones borrowed the design of their opponents.

>> No.13441790

Ho ho! Tread is still breathing.
Any news 'bout scan, gentlemen?

>> No.13441892

Bumping now that the boards are back up!

>> No.13442953

>>13434934
>>13434963
>>13434991

>> No.13445254

bump

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