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[ERROR] No.13408576 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Why doesn't the imperium use railguns? They're obviously better than anything they currently use for punching through armor.

>> No.13408586

games workshop

>> No.13408589

Because that's heresy

>> No.13408594

Because the tau do and each army has to have unique weaponry.

>> No.13408598

>>13408576
Because the Imperium either can't or forgot how to make railguns smaller than a ship mounted cannon. Plus they're still under the impression that anything they field is still better than Tau tech.

>> No.13408609

>>OP:
>>Why doesn't logic work in 40K?
Because it is 40K. It is about daemons chainsword fighting super-soldiers who have fully automatic rocket launchers as their weakest gun.

>>But isn't that retarded?
Yes, yes it is. But that is why we love it.

>> No.13408618

All of the above

>> No.13408636

>Plus they're still under the impression that anything they field is still better than Tau tech.

It isn't?

>> No.13408649

>he still uses ranged weapons
>laughing carcharodons

>> No.13408658

>>13408636
I'm pretty sure that tau have better weapons than the Imperium.

5 str 5ap guns on your standard trooper? Compare that to lasguns or even bolters and it puts them to shame

>> No.13408673

>>13408658

I'm pretty sure we're talking about fluff here.

>> No.13408691

Guys, guys, guys, guys...
The Imperium IS using railguns. The Tau just got dibs on the name.

>> No.13408702

>>13408673
That depends on what fluff you read.
Sandy Mitchell's Pulse Rifles are kinda Plasma Rifle power level if I remember correctly.

>> No.13408703

"Rail Gun" doesn't sound fake-latin enough.

>> No.13408711

>>13408658
The Orks' basic infantry weapon is S4 Assault 2. This gives the Shoota Boy a strong ranged option and greater tactical flexibility and mobility than a Firewarrior, Guardsman or even Marine. Are Orks the most technologically advanced race in the setting?

>> No.13408726

Tau call them railguns. The Imperium calls them the Ancient and Holiest Ultracrusader Ballista Barrels of Ultramar.

>> No.13408731

They're both faggots anyway.

>> No.13408735

>>13408711
Yes they are.

>> No.13408736

Non-projectile weapons aren't phallic enough for Marines to use.

>> No.13408742

Aren't Eldar mono-bladed ninja star guns supposed to be awesome and super advanced in the fluff, but on the table top is inferior to the relatively crude bolter?
Fluff and tabletop has some big discrepancies.
Your fuckaweseome faction in fluff with their super powerful weapons are kind of dinky in play.

>> No.13408755

Are ship lances magnetic accelerator cannons?

>> No.13408772

>>13408703
Maximus Velocitus Holy Imperial Thunderstick

>> No.13408777

Tau player here, OP. All of my hate. All of it.

>> No.13408778

>>13408736
Just so you know, railguns fire a projectile.

>> No.13408791

If the Tau are so advanced why do they not have horses?

>> No.13408794

>>13408711
Short of the necrons, they actually are.

>> No.13408795

>>13408755
Lances are lasers.

Bombard Cannons are Gauss Rifles
Nova Cannon is a giant Rail Gun

They do use railguns, just not on the battlefield. They prefer lasers because they have whipped laser science, railguns are too difficult to make on a wide scale

>> No.13408821

>>13408711
Assault just means that you don't really have to aim to shoot because you shoot so many bullets some are bound to hit.

Orks personify that fact

>> No.13408824

>>13408778
Speaking of basic infantry weapons here.

>> No.13408827

I imagine logistics plays a part in it too. The lasgun is a fuck of a lot more reliable than pretty much anything, can punch through concrete, and can be recharged by dropping in a fire.

Now why is a railgun better?

>> No.13408835

>>13408711
Orks have an instinctive understanding of technology and engineering, and a psychic gestalt mind that improves their technology's function just by the fact they believe it should work that way.

The imperium cannot build new suits of terminator armor, but a mekboy can produce mega armor in a cave with a pile of scrap.

Tau can make rail-guns that use electromagnetic forces to fire ferrous slugs with the force to liquify land raiders. Orks can make a gun that shoots a hole in the universe, obliterating anything it touches.

Orks might not have the most RELIABLE technology, but they do have the most ADVANCED technology.

>> No.13408844

>>13408777

>> No.13408852

>>13408835
Not really, their navies are a joke.

>> No.13408853

>>13408827
Lasgun's counterpart isnt Railgun, it's Pulse Rifle.
And Rail ammo is small and uncomplicated.

>> No.13408856

>>13408827
You don't drop the whole gun, just the battery pack. And you have to be careful, lest it overheat and explode. But yeah.

>> No.13408901

>Why doesn't the imperium use railguns? They're obviously better than anything they currently use for punching through armor

Because the Imperium has an endless army to maintain and supply where the Tau do not.

>> No.13408902

Wouldn't railgun technology be easier to make then la-oh wait, 40k, right, no logic.

>> No.13408913

>>13408852
Orks weren't created for space combat. The Old Ones made them so that as soon as they were on a world the Necrons would have a hard fucking time purging them off it.

>> No.13408941

>>13408913

I think the Orks were the stupidest idea the Old ones had.

"Hur let's build the C'tan and endless supply of food"

>> No.13408950

>>13408902
No. Once again, Imperium has laser science whipped. They understand how to make lasers REALLY REALLY well. All their forgeworlds mass produce lasguns, lascannons, etc etc.

They know their shit

>> No.13408954

>>13408913
I never understood the logic behind this. Orks reproduce via spores shed during the Ork's life, culminating in a large "spore-splosion" when he dies. Necron weapons dissamble the target at the molecular level. Furthermore, Necrons have shown no hesitation in scouring planets completely of life down to the microbial level. Admittedly, this may be a tactic developed to counter the Ork's reproductive strategy, but we don't know for sure.

>> No.13408962

>Grim Darkness? Good thing I brought my flashlight!.jpg
A better comparison would be railguns to lascannons, and rail rifles to sniper rifles, Pulse rifle/carbine to lasgun
In each case, I would go ahead and say tau have the edge, but they cost way more than guardsmen on the tabletop, and in the fluff imperium has way more resources to throw around.
If the imperium didn't have bigger problems(eldar, orks, chaos, nids) the tau wouldn't be around right now.
i play tau and orks, but seriously, these arguments are dumb. The Tau and Imperium have different goals. Tau want efficiency, Imperium wants power. Thats why Tau don't have gets hot! on their plasma, but are also not as strong.

>> No.13408973

>>13408954

That too. The orks were probably different when they were made by the Old ones, because if they were like they are now it just seems like a stupid move.

Then again maybe back in the day the Orks were also running around with looted gauss weapons.

>> No.13408974

>>13408901
Except IG vehicles use ordnance weapons much more than lascannons. Plasma is unstable an hard to manufacture. Railgun ammo is probably easiest type of ammo to make ever.
But yeah, 40k.

>> No.13408983

>>13408974

>Plasma is unstable an hard to manufacture

Only the hand carried versions.

>> No.13408987

Railguns are

in-universe
>technologically advanced
>expensive
>not so robust

meta
>don't fit the visual style
>don't fit the theme

>> No.13408994

I always imagine the Imperium's policy to plasma weapons to be like that scene from Enemy at the Gates.
"When the plasma gun overheats and melts the soldiers hands, pick up the gun and continue to fire!"

>> No.13408995

>>13408974
Plasma is very very very effective. TP the Imperium Effectiveness > Danger in use.

As for Tanks, unlike Railguns, Leman Russes rape a huge area with a powerful round. Also, there are less tanks to supply then people.

>> No.13409002

>>13408973
The Old ones employed orks probably had more stable warp weapons and forcefields that SCIENCE! couldn't fuck with.

>> No.13409004

>>13408983
Leman Russ Executioners are the only known users of plasma destroyers. They are highly temperamental and dangerous to operate and Executioner crews are often seen as foolhardy or insane.
Currently there is only one Forge World capable of producing them, Ryza, which has an extensive knowledge of the workings of Plasma-based technology.
Source: Lexicanum

>> No.13409006

>>13408576

>Why doesn't the imperium use railguns? They're obviously better than anything they currently use for punching through armor.

Is that why the Tau had to be saved from Hivefleet Gorgon by the Dark Eldar, a Cadian Regiment and a Necron fleet?

>> No.13409019

>>13408974

An enginseer attached to an armoured battalion can repair, replace and maintain a typical battle cannon fairly easy under combat conditions. The battle cannon does not require a dedicated power supply (other than the tank) to function, and does not have many moving parts.

A railgun is complex, delicate and expensive (for the imperium) and generally not worth it. Also doesn't fit the established method of 'blast everything with high explosive and fill the air with shrapnel'

There's a load more reasons, but other than those the main one is aiming; you have to be pretty damn accurate with a railgun and that's not something the imperium is too good at in terms of optics (and would also prevent indirect fire).

>> No.13409037

>>13409004

>They are highly temperamental and dangerous to operate and Executioner crews are often seen as foolhardy or insane.

You do know that Leman Russes don't have ghosts inside them controlling them right and that the weapon isn't unstable at all and it's just imperial gossip?

Also the Imperium usses bigger plasma weapons on super heavy tanks and Titans, they don't explode either because unlike hand carried plasma weapons they have bigger and better cooling mechanisms.

>> No.13409045

>>13409019
Every anti-armor weapon requiers aiming.
You don't kill tanks by throwing a shitton of HE at the general area.

>> No.13409054

>>13409045

No, you punch them with power fists.

>> No.13409058

>>13409045
You can kill a crew with HE pressure wave, and that doesn't need to be aimed. See- Nukes.

>> No.13409059

Am I the only one that realizes that even considering using a new and more effective weapon/ammunition system over the Emperor's lasgun is heresy?

>> No.13409073

>>13409045

Hi there! Sisters throw enough HE at ANYTHING to make it go away.

Then again, BS4 so I guess it is well aimed HE.

>> No.13409076

>>13409045
Yeah, but the Vanquisher is the Imperium's only true AT tank, and it still shoots no better than the other Russes. Imperial forces make up for their lack of precision with sheer volume of fire.

>> No.13409079

>>13409059
You're the only one who has ignored every other point made as to why the Imperium likes lasers better than railguns

>> No.13409090

>>13409058
Only at point-blank range.
Most modern MBTs can survive a nearby nuclear detonation and have CBRNe protection systems that protect from radiation and fallout.

>> No.13409092

>>13408973
I seem to remember hearing that the Orks killed off their Brainboyz, and were left with the crazy homicidal Orks. That is to say, the normal ones.

>> No.13409105

>>13409059

It's actually not heresy. The reason lasguns are so heavily used (as are autoguns, mind you. Autoguns see similar usage in Imperial hands) is because lasguns are FUCKEASY to both make and maintain. They're absurdly accurate, and actually do pack a hell of a punch.

A laspistol can cook an organ at 200m with a single round through light armor. A hellgun at that range can bore a hole straight through a man and kill the guy behind him. Long las have been known to one shot chaos marines.

>> No.13409111

>>13409092

I blame the Deceiver.

>> No.13409115

>>13409090
You're going to have to define "nearby"

Also how the MBT stops the crew inside from cooking

>> No.13409122

A railgun needs ammo and power. A lascannon just power. Since you can leave a lascannon power pack next to a fire overnight and get a few shots out of it and the lascannon is well understood enough that the average enginseer can fix anything wrong with one that isn't totaly destroyed it's better for the imperium.

The tau like shiney experimental tech, the Imperium solid tech that won't keel over due to bad conditions or usage.

>> No.13409128

>>13408950
That's what I meant, wouldn't it be easier to master railguns before lasers?

>> No.13409151

>>13409128
If they find a STC maybe.

But their ships already use massive railguns for their weaponry. Lasguns have their advantages over railguns for ground combat, while in orbit, they use a combination of lasers and railguns and gauss cannons.

>> No.13409153

>>13409105
Unfortunately they don't have time to properly train the troops using these weapons, so the operate somewhat similar to their game strength.

>> No.13409164

>>13409019
>you have to be pretty damn accurate with a railgun and that's not something the imperium is too good at in terms of optics (and would also prevent indirect fire).
Railguns have their sub-munition which is indirect fire.

>> No.13409176

>>13409164
no it's not

>> No.13409178

>>13409164
Its also weak as fuck

>> No.13409179

>>13409164

Only the tank mounted version.

Which is another point. 2 Bozos can fire a lascannon. We ahve yet to see a railgun that does not require a heavy suit or tank.

The imperium has a lot of bozos to give lascannons to.

>> No.13409186

>>13409115
I don,t think anyone tested that(and published results).
But the fact is nuclear proof tank designs were around in 50s (Obyekt 279 or something like that).

>> No.13409187

>>13409176
I thought it was? Well, it's entirely possible I'm wrong.

>> No.13409207

>>13409187
How something that goes a couple dozen km/s can even be indirect fire?
How can a shotgun be indirect fire?

>> No.13409269

>>13409164
"Indirect fire" is a technical term. Indirect fire means aiming and firing a gun without relying on a direct line of sight between the gun and its target, as in the case of direct fire. Aiming is performed by calculating azimuth and elevation angles, and may include correcting the fall of shot by observing it and calculating new angles.

>> No.13409291

>>13409186
Regular tanks are effectively nuke proof. The heat and blast wave doesn't effectively disable tanks or kill tank crews.
So the U.S. developed neutron bombs. Relativistic neutrons would spray out of those and penetrate tank armor. The tank would be fine. The crew would receive senselessly massive doses of radiation poisoning. They would get a few days to live after the neutron bomb went off in their vicinity.
SCIENCE!

>> No.13409314

>>13408702
Yep, since the Tau develop technology rather than just recovering and preserving it, they quickly found a way on how to produce plasma weapons with a reliable cooling device.

The imperial plasma guns are actualy more powerfull than the Tau plasma weapons of the same size, but the cooling element is not as effective. Possibly because the adeptmechs mixed up parts in their attempts to preserve plasma weapons.

The result is the often dreaded overheat effect.

By the way there is also a perfectly sensible reason why the Imperium gives lasguns to their soldiers rather than compareable powerfull weapons as the Tau give their basic soldiers.

There are around a few million Tau fire warriors compared to the few billion Imperial Guard soldiers. Equiping them all with more complicated weapons like the Tau is simply impossible to achieve with the human level of technology/production power.

Likewise a Lasgun is far more reliable than the pulse rifle, it's easier to repair, harder to malfunction and ammo can be restocked by putting their energy cells into the sun or next to a heat source. Pulse rifle ammo requires carefull recharging and the weapon needs to be in top conditions all the time.

So lasguns are simply better for the size of the Imperial army and the areas they are used in.

Heck, Gue'vesa are actualy capable of building themself Lasguns out of farming tools the Tau gave them and these are weapons which have the fire power between a M-16 and a Anti-Material rifle.

>> No.13409336

>>13409122
Railgun use simple slugs made from conductive material for ammo.
Even bolts are infinitely more complicated than that.
BTW why does the gun in OP's pic have a penis?

>> No.13409344

>>13408576
I have no fucking idea. If they took railguns and made starship versions running along the ship...

Well, just look at the calcs on Halo's ODP MAC Cannons, they're insanely powerful.

>>13408835
>Orks can make a gun that shoots a hole in the universe, obliterating anything it touches.
Ah, like a darklance.

>> No.13409363

>>13408576
Because Tau = futuristic animesque military and IG = WW2 Soviets.

>> No.13409394

>>13409344
Read the damn thread. They DO use railguns. Bombardment cannons are giant railguns, and they have a dozen of them per side. The MAC gun is a peashooter compared to these things. A single bombardment cannon can sink continents

The Nova cannon is a Railgun that shoots rounds that has a blast radius of hundreds of kilometers

>> No.13409443

>>13409394
>The MAC gun is a peashooter compared to these things.
Not regular MAC cannons or emplacements, I'm talking about the Super MAC Cannon used on Orbital Defence Platforms. It fires a 3000-ton projectile at .4c, with a yield of ~5,000 gigatons. This dwarfs anything the Imperium has by an order of magnitude.

>> No.13409452

>>13409344
Except infinitely more entertaining to use.

Although, from my understanding, Orks excel the most at Personal Forcefield and Teleportation tech; with their Forcefields easily being the best in the Galaxy while their Teleportation second only to the Necrons.

>> No.13409477

isnt a macro cannon basically a railgun?

>> No.13409482

>>13409394
>>13409443
A regular mac cannon deals out roughly twice the amount of energy per shot as a nova cannon, sillies.

1.15 teratons to the nova cannon's 530 gigatons.

>> No.13409500

>>13409477
Mac cannons are basically absurdly strong railguns from the haloverse.

>> No.13409501

>>13409482
considering that these numbers are just made up, whoever writes second will just put a bigger number.

So the next sci-fi Setting will have a gun that fire 20 teratons of force. the next 100 teratons. the next 500. the next... what comes after tera?

>> No.13409506

>>13409443
>>13409443

Makes you wonder how they stay in orbit when that thing fires. Those numbers are a case of "MAKE UP NUMBERS EVERYWHERE TO MAKE IT SEEM AWESOME" Forgetting the energy required to fire a 3000 ton projectile at anywhere near a decent value of c, which would make the chaos gods themselves flabbergasted.

Its like how we treat forgeworld armor numbers (100mm of steel), its complete BS.

But if we're going that route. each bombardment cannon is supposed to have an output of around 500 gigtaons give or take. There are a dozen or moreof them on Imperial ships.

Also, its a danm good idea to have a unshielded stationary, gigantic target that can be disabled with a single salvo from light minutes away. And yes 40k space combat tends to be resolved from hundreds of thousands of kilometers away.

Not sure why the covenant thought that slow moving plasma would work well in space, but okay.

>> No.13409533

>>13409506
>Its like how we treat forgeworld armor numbers (100mm of steel), its complete BS.
365mm on land raiders, actually, and it's canon regardless of whether you'd like to cherry-pick and ignore any numbers you don't like.

>> No.13409544

>>13409501
Peta I believe

>> No.13409551

>>13409506
>Makes you wonder how they stay in orbit when that thing fires.
Heh, yeah, I can just imagine the scene...

"Commander, the Covenant ships [or whatever, I don't know shit about Halo] are in sensor range! Lock-on achieved!"
"Roger. Set orbital correction thrusters to automatic. Main gun - permission to fire."
"Shot firedoooohh shit there goes Middle America"

Seriously, a thruster that could compensate that kind of momentum would probably be bad news for anyone on the planet.

>> No.13409601

>>13409533

Actually it's imperial armour. Which makes it less canon than codexes. And if the codexes say they can stand up to a railgun or a carnifex then they can't have that little armour so we discount it as silly.

>> No.13409618

>>13409551
You gotta love physics in a zero-G environment. Einstein's Theory of Relativity in it's purest undiluted form.
>"Sir, prepared to launch MAC Cannon, but counter-thrusters aren't ready ye--"
>"There's no time! Fire!"
>MAC round launched sir! Heading towards target at .999% Lightspeed... which is the speed at which we're heading away from the battle... and into orbit."

Wait... Aren't MAC Cannons magnetically-propelled weapons, as in they have no recoil?

>> No.13409627

>>13409601
i like to think its all imperial scale and that their mm are bigger. i mean it is 40000 years in the future. and scales are all fucked up.

>> No.13409635

>>13409551
Inertial dampeners, probably. Or some generic sci-fi excuse.

Also, the platform itself is enormous, with many times more mass than the projectile itself.

>> No.13409638

>>13409618
And finally someone remembered their basic experimental tech.

>> No.13409640

>>13409618
No such thing as a gun having no recoil. You can't trick Sir Isaac Newton.

>> No.13409641

>>13409618
It has LESS recoil, but if it didn't have recoil where does the "equal but opposite force" from accelerating a 3000 ton projectile at .4c go?

>> No.13409656

>>13409618
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction, its elementary physics.

even magnetic weapons have recoil,

>> No.13409661

>>13409635
>>Inertial dampeners
Take that, conservation of momentum.
By spouting out some sci-fi sounding buzzwords, I have defeated you.
I blame Star Trek and its incredibly soft sci-fi paired up with faux-hard sci-fi explanations for this nonsense.

>> No.13409668

>>13409601
>And if the codexes say they can stand up to a railgun
Actually, the codices say that a Tau hammerhead railgun bores right through Imperial tanks and liquefies everything inside by pulling it right out the far hole.

Although that probably doesn't apply to Marine-driven tanks, since the drivers are wearing astartes power armour. So there's still a hole and the crew are ripped from their seats, but they get back into the fight pretty quickly.

>> No.13409673

>>13408941
Not really.

Ork Souls are tied to the warp far more effectively than any other soul. (Two sided coin one warp soul one soul of C'tan food) they can't clean the warp off of the edible side.

>> No.13409689

>>13409668
Astartes are tough, but I'm sure they'd suffer wounds from being sucked into a tiny area at high speed.
Rules-wise, the tank is wrecked just the same.

>> No.13409693

>>13409656
>>13409641
>>13409640
Presumably someplace not attached to the gun since the round wasn't.

>> No.13409707

>>13409693
...
What?
I absolutely cannot comprehend what you're trying to say here.

>> No.13409708

>>13409668
jesus you're both right.
>>And if the codexes say they can stand up to a railgun
>Actually, the codices say that a Tau hammerhead railgun bores right through Imperial tanks and liquefies everything inside by pulling it right out the far hole.

Obviously if a railgun hits a weak point and penetrates through then it'll cause massive damage, but a hit from head on hitting a mass of steal at an angle or at a corner just rips out a chunk of armor.

each shot isn't going to be a direct hit. a rail gun is already st10 ap1.

>> No.13409712

>>13409668
Land Raiders laugh at your puny attempts to penetrate about half the time.

Against any armor other than front against LR, ouch.

>> No.13409720

>>13409712
Leman Russ of course, not LR. AV14 all around is sexy.

>> No.13409725

>>13409693
electrodynamicforcehowdoesitwork.jpg

>> No.13409731

>>13409693
you know how like charged magnets repel and that you can feel that force when playing with a magnet?

This is how the energy would be transferred to the platform, the rails would also feel massive resistance.

and in actuality a lot of the energy of a rail gun shot ends up bending and melting the rails of the railgun.
But we're actually pretty close to early railguns right now. its kinda cool.

>> No.13409732

>>13409689
The point is that the Astartes' armour would stop them from getting sucked through like a weak, fleshy Guardsman would. The Astartes would just get slammed around a bit.

>> No.13409741

>>13409482
>>13409443
>>13409500
>>13409394
>>13409344
>>13409336
Magnetic Accelerator Cannon cannon.

>> No.13409745

>>13409712
AX-1-0 up in this thread. Who needs bombs when you have railguns?

>Against any armor other than front against LR, ouch.
...What did you just say?

>> No.13409748

>>13409506
>Not sure why the covenant thought that slow moving plasma would work well in space, but okay.
Ironically, the same reasons 40k tech is so retarded- they nicked most of it from the Forerunner and have the religious belief that it's totally the best stuff evar.

>> No.13409754

>>13409708
I thought sloped armor doesn't matter in case of hypervelocity impacts with both penetrator and armor acting as fluids?

>> No.13409760

>>13409741
Much like an ATM machine.

It's acronyms, I don't gotta explain shit.

>> No.13409761

>>13409668

"Anything not bolted down got sucked out as well".

Power armour can probably withstand the impact and not get sucked out (unless it's a super-duper railgun) but now I can't help but imagining a series of solid 'thunks' and space marine shaped dents formed on the the hull, wile coyote style, after a hit.

>> No.13409776

>>13409731
>>13409725
>>13409693
I derped .
On another note what's the difference between Rail and Gauss weapons?

>> No.13409779

wait, if the Imperium has not developed any new weapon systems or designs since the horus herasy (due to backwards ass techpreists) how the FUCK is the imperium still a competative side?
Imagine if a modern nation had stopped designing or altering its weapons... FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS.
It doesn't matter how many guys they have or how many stone axes they can produce, they would be wipped out immediatly. Maybe it just says something about how bad the rest are...
(eldar dont need new tech cause they think theyre perfect
dark eldar dont give a fuck
orks use whatever is about average for their time period, necrons kinda rape anyway (not as much as they should for a race that is many times older than most of the others)
tyranids adapt to what is needed (just not very well)
Chaos gets all the same stuff as the imperium, but with deamon powers.
Tau are the only ones developing new weapons, hence despite their small numbers, the longer they live, the better chance they have of surviving.

>> No.13409788

>>13409761
>imagining a series of solid 'thunks' and space marine shaped dents formed on the the hull, wile coyote style, after a hit.
oh screw you. Now it's in my head too.

>> No.13409792

>>13409745
If a Railgun hits any side other than the front on a Leman Russ, bad things are going to happen to the tank.

Also applies to the front half the time

>> No.13409793

>>13409748
Although these days Covenant slipspace engines seem to be precise enough that they could just jump up next to the enemy ship and fire.

I mean, shit, in Halo: Reach they were jumping corvettes out into the wilderness of Reach undetected.

Which then makes the whole orbital defense grid in Halo 2 seem kind of pointless, but there's retroactive continuity for ya.

>> No.13409794

>>13409748

That doesn't excuse them from their plasma pistols being the weapon of choice for pro soldiers and the rifles being a pile of spray and pray nonsense.

The Elites took all the rubbish stuff.

>> No.13409802

>>13408994

Only for Vahallans

"One man carries the plasma gun, the other man carries the ammunition. When the one carrying the gun is killed by an overheat, the other man picks up the plasma gun and shoots!"

>> No.13409810

>>13409776
Railguns uses two "rails" of parallel electromagnets to accelerate a projectile..

A Gauss uses a coil of wires to generate a magnetic force to force a projectile out of the gun

>> No.13409814

>>13409761
>>13409788
We need a drawfag on this NOW.

>> No.13409816

>>13409754
i'm talking about nicking a corner or the vehicle in question.

>> No.13409827

>>13409793
That didn't make sense, especially when in the cutscenes, they show that they are able to detect the precursors of slip space jumps before they even arrive.

>> No.13409838

>>13409793
I think anyone slipspacing in that way would be a Heretic to them.

Like when Cortana was in the covenant ship and the AI screamed Heretic as she jumped out of a gravity well.

>> No.13409839

>>13409810
>A Gauss uses a coil of wires to generate a magnetic force to force a projectile out of the gun
But remember that Necron Gauss weaponry doesn't work quite like that. However it does work, I don't recall.

>> No.13409871

>>13409839
Necron Gauss weaponry has nothing to do with IRL concept of Gauss weaponry.
Gw used it because it sounded cool.

>> No.13409873

>>13409793

Halo reach also pretty much violently raped in universe canon, with shit like not having the giant supercarrier get blown out of orbit by half the goddamn UNSC fleet and 20 ODPs the second it got decloaked.

>> No.13409879

>>13409776
A gauss weapon (coilgun) accelerates a magnetic projectile through a series of magnetic coils by simply turning those coils off as soon as the projectile passes through them.

A railgun accelerates a conductive, not necessarily magnetic projectile by creating an electric current through two rails and the projectile. The projectile experiences a Lorentz force because the current running through the rails generates an electric field and there are electric charges moving though the projectile. pic related.

Main difference is that a coilgun slug needs to be ferromagnetic while a railgun slug only has to be conductive.

>> No.13409883

>>13409748
At some rate, 40k tech makes more sense than Covy in terms of ship vs ship engagements.

I mean seriously, 20 Super Macs around a planet? How the hell do they ALL fire at a Covenant fleet that is approaching on a single vector. How do three or so several kilometer long ships act as a shield for an entire fleet? Did the covenant really just come in one direction and not spread out to rape them with plasma fire? If the covenant are so damn good and awesome at stuff, why not slipspace some corvetts right on top of the super macs, fire a round that slags a single capacitor which makes the entire thing useless and then suicide itself into the gun to blow it up for good measure?

Pinpoint slipsace jumps opens up a massive "why the fuck didn't they do this" hole.

>> No.13409891

>>13409761

>Series of Wille E Coyote style space marine dents in the hull of a vehicle.

Well shit I know what my next modeling project is going to be.

>> No.13409900

>>13409839
Necron Gauss weaponry strips away matter from the target at the molecular level.

It has nothing to do with magnetic anything.

>> No.13409920

>>13409839
IIRC, the gun sucks the matter of the target in molecule by molecule. It brings in the outer layer first, hence the flaying effect.

>> No.13409924

>>13409900
Not what the weapon does, but how it works. I recall reading (on a Wiki of some kind, long ago) that the only similarity with how the weapon actually worked was that it used energy/current to propel its "projectile."

>> No.13409926

>>13409883

>corvetts right on top of the super macs, fire a round that slags a single capacitor which makes the entire thing useless and then suicide itself into the gun to blow it up for good measure?

This was addressed to some extent, as they tried it: after a jump the ship appears to be powered down for a few seconds, meaning no shields/weapons etc and leaving it open.

How long these seconds are, no idea, but it gave the UNSC enough time to realign a Super-Mac (i think) and blow it away.

>> No.13409927

>>13409761
I though it was all the shrapnel from armor spalling that pretty homogenized everything inside the crew compartment rather that sucktion from the passing of the slug?
Space Marines, will they blend?

>> No.13409943

>>13409927

It's written (paraphrased slightly) as:

"Everything not bolted down - including the crew - was sucked out the hole and sprayed on the ground in an expanding cone of roughly 20m"

>> No.13409959

>>13409920

Any idea what happens to all those molecules after being sucked in?

>> No.13409962

>>13409883
The Covies aren't awesome, that's the whole point of them.

They found anicent tech they're using on STANDBY MODE, their whole culture also revolves around glory killing and trophy hunting.

AKA, they WANT to get into a fight.

...God damnit, I loved Halo, shame it's over now.

>> No.13409964

>>13409926
So then, why not rematerilize inside the MAC gun, they don't seem to have trouble sacrificing ships like that.

And aren't these super Macs supposed to be huge? How did they even aim at it so fast. And why for a corvette, should be aiming at more important targets.

Actually what they could do is accelerate a covenent ship as fast as they can right at a vector toward a mac gun. Even if it gets destroyed, its still a ton of debris heading toward a very delicate weapon at very high speeds

>> No.13409968

Mostly, economics. Lasguns don't need ammo, just power. Power cells can be recharged. Guardsmen are dirt cheap. It's just easier to give them lasguns logisticly.

>> No.13410001

>>13409964

>So then, why not rematerilize inside the MAC gun, they don't seem to have trouble sacrificing ships like that.

It's been somewhat stated that (somehow) something re-emerging from slipspace 'pushes' anything away from the co-ordinates before it emerges.

>And aren't these super Macs supposed to be huge? How did they even aim at it so fast. And why for a corvette, should be aiming at more important targets.

As I said, i'm not sure if it was the super mac that took it out, or if it was the Pillar as it flew past; they do have a stupendous rate of fire though (1 round every three second) and a huge amount of slugs, so they can essentially fill an area with metal. It helps that the slugs they fire can penetrate a cruiser and still have enough momentum to destroy other ships.

>Actually what they could do is accelerate a covenent ship as fast as they can right at a vector toward a mac gun. Even if it gets destroyed, its still a ton of debris heading toward a very delicate weapon at very high speeds

Wouldn't surprise me if it worked, but the sheer impact of a Super Mac on a corvette basically wipes it from existence, and I imagine this would overwhelm any existing inertia (and the resulting explosion would disperse them)

>> No.13410017

>>13409968
But if they give the SPESS MAHREENZ giant fucking magnets instead of chainsaw swords, they might, you know, win. Huh, found the problem.

>> No.13410020

>>13409943

Interestingly, the only book to mention if one way or another (Enforcer Trilogy) has SOB crew and passengers actually bolted down via the power armour. It allows them to drive like madmen if the have to witout as much to worry about.

>> No.13410024

>>13409964
>Debris retaining momentum and danger in a movie/vidya.
I have yet to see that taken into account (Within an ongoing battle at least) For a successful franchise.

>> No.13410036

>>13409779

The Imperium *does* develop new weapons. Just really, really slowly compared to Tau. And they do tend to lose stuff at a comparable rate. It's not really advancing much, but it's not completely stagnant.

Hell, Meltas are a comparatively recent (as in, last 500 years) development, if memory serves.

>> No.13410049

>>13410020

This was written in the Tau codex and described an ambush on an Imperial Guard Armoured Column, with the vehicles in question being Leman Russes (aka no power armour).

As stated above, power armour would probably be enough to stop the wearer getting sucked out the hole.

>> No.13410062

>>13410036
They rediscover weapons and tools at a steady rate, but research and development is tech heresy.
Pic is related.

>> No.13410065

>>13410036
I guess the whole weapons industry has a lot of inertia, and suddenly switching your production (now that you have mastered and optimised it) would be a) difficult technologically b) difficult logistically as different tech requires differnt resources c) risky when you need a constant flow of reliable weapons

>> No.13410067

>>13410024
if you have an explosive shell, it will blow the debris in all directions although some would be propelled at you faster, and at the speeds it'd be going it'd be devastating still.

>> No.13410082

>>13410049

Oh yes. Just commenting on my remebering a case of them actually having the crew bolted down.

Also the Imperium does make new tech. Say hello to the Assault Cannon and the Repressor and Those Terminator Missile Launchers and SOB Power armour.

>> No.13410101

>>13410049

Its still not going to do any favors to the poor sap inside it who was just bouncing around his suit of power armor as it flew into the hull at mach 5. Plus aren't space marine vehicles mostly manned by chapter serfs, so they don't have to fuck around with wasting marines from their limit of 1000 to pilot all their rhinos and tanks.

>> No.13410121

>>13410101

Depends on what you read.

Codexes have it (or had it, haven't read the latest one) as them being piloted by two or three marines and the machine spirit.

Fluff varies slightly, but it's normally a marine crew.

>> No.13410123

>>13410001
1. What. That is just dumb. And even so, considering they use "capacitors" to fire their plasma weaponry, they should just hold a charge and fire as soon as they get out. And doens't change the fact that if they shift the MAC gun the wrong way while its firing, it would rip itself in half. A very small disturbance can create a massive imbalance.

2. Good god, they much have captured Khorne himself, stuffed a tube up his ass, and started gathering the pure energy he shits out constantly to run something like that. What kind of material are they using that doesn't shatter and melt instantly upon impact.

3. Inertia overall maybe, but you still have the pieces flying that got ejected from the ship upon impact

>> No.13410133

>>13410101
>Plus aren't space marine vehicles mostly manned by chapter serfs
No. They are manned by actual marines.

>> No.13410183

>>13410101

Land Raiders and Predators are manned by Marines. Space Marine ships are heavily automated and most of the non-servitor crew are Chapter Serfs. BFG Armada says:
"Unlike the vessels of the Imperial Navy, a Space
Marine ship has a relatively small crew. A Space
Marine is far too valuable to waste in manning a
gun or watching a surveyor screen, and so only
the officers aboard a vessel are likely to be
Space Marines, as well as the few Techmarines
who oversee the engines and perform other
mechanical duties. Almost all the ship’s systems
are run and monitored by servitors; half-human
cyborgs who are wired into the vessel’s
weapons, engines and communications
apparatus. There are also a few hundred
Chapter serfs to attend to other duties, such as
routine cleaning and maintenance, serving the
Space Marines during meal times and other
such honoured tasks. These serfs come from the
Chapter’s home planet or the enclave they
protect, many of them Novitiates or applicants
who have failed some part of the recruiting or
training process. These serfs are fanatically loyal
to their superhuman masters, and indoctrinated
into many of the lesser orders of the Chapter’s
Cult. Although human, they still benefit from
remarkable training and access to superior
weaponry than is usually found on a naval
vessel, making them a fearsome prospect in a
boarding action – even without the support of
their genetically modified lords."

>> No.13410184

>>13410123

This is all in the books, I'm just restating it.

They use Dense Tungsten Ferride or something, and the super MAC weighs at 300 tonnes (?!) in a little shell the size of a spartan

>> No.13410193

>>13410123

Also, each of the stations has a dedicated AI for fire control to prevent 'mistakes' like moving around whilst firing.

>> No.13410286

>>13408835
"Big mek Stark built dis in a cave! Wit a box o' scraps!"

>> No.13410345

>>13409019

Railguns are NOT complex. Their problem (in real world too) is that, they require immense amounts of power, and if higher velocities are required, they require synthetic and very durable materials to avoid changing the barrel every 10 shots due to degradation caused by the hyper-velocity bullet.

>> No.13410398

>>13410121
>>13410133

Point still stands. Even a Marine isn't going to just get back up after hes been slammed against the hull of his predator at mach five.

>> No.13410434

>>13410036

Not really. Practically losing the know-how of such powerful technologies such as anti-gravity and plasma weaponry is quite severe degradation, don't you think?

Before the Horus heresy, anti-gravity technology (jet bikes and land-speeders) and plasma weapons were widely used, by both Astartes and IG.

>> No.13410460

>>13410398
Except that wouldn't happen.
The damage from a hypervelocity impact is from the pressure wave liquefying your organs, and from armor spall turning you into red mush.

>> No.13410471

>>13410398
Also, they have to worry about the rail round you know, from just torching everything inside the vehicle, not to mention the impact itself destroying key components of the vehicle. I mean, I mean, if you look at freeze frame of the Navy's railgun round, you can see that its trailing fire, because just the friction between the projectile and the air around it is causing it to spontaneously combust. And that's just Mach 7. Who knows how fast the Tau are able to push their railgun rounds.

>> No.13410526

>>13410434

Admech could make excellent plasma batteries and spaceship drives until M35 at least that was when Murder class cruiser production ended.

BFG fluff says that Murder's broadside batteries consist of finest plasma weaponry produced by Adeptus Mechanicus, and that it was the mainstay of Imperial fleet, the predecessor of Lunar class cruiser. The current long-range gunboat cruiser, Tyrant class, is a rare vessel (gamewise more expensive and slower than the Murder), utilizes different sort of technology and the fluff says it is often forced to utilize salvaged archeotech batteries from space hulks or renegade ships to achieve optimal effect.

In game terms it means that the Tyrant with its broadsides refitted to Murder-equivalent power is over 14% more expensive than the older cruiser and moves slower. The characteristic IN armored prow and ordnance weaponry like torpedoes that are less of an energy drain are how Mechanicus compensates for lost technology.

>> No.13410533

>>13410471
When they started using DPU rounds in Desert Storm, they thought that there were a whole lot of abandoned tanks and dozens of enemies behind the front lines.

Turns out that the DPU rounds passed through the tank, and the impact shockwave shockwave liquified the people in the tanks and dragged the liquified remains out the exit hole with the vacuum pull of the shell leaving the tank.

And that's just modern everyday tank ammunition.

>> No.13410645

>>13410533

That sounds a bit too scifi to be true. Got any source of this?

>> No.13410676

>>13410645
I don't. Using Wikipedia for weapons info (inb4 girlslaughing.png.gif.avi.jpg), depleted uranium is really good at penetrating tanks, and lights on fire when it enters an armored vehicle.

>> No.13410693

>>13410645
Two soldiers who were there.

>> No.13410710

>>13410676
Getting hit by a depleted uranium round is pretty horrible. The moment the shell punches the armor, it basically sprays the entire interior compartment with molten uranium, pretty much melting the poor bastards inside. Anybody that has the misfortune of surviving that then has to deal with the radiation poisoning.

>> No.13410719

>>13410645
Well that may be an exaggeration but typically a DU penetrator will bounce inside the compartment after penetration so the crew won't look good after that. DU also has incendiary properties so most hits end with a fire/ammo cooking off etc.

>> No.13410732

>>13410533
>>13410645
That's something of an urban legend.
Sometimes a T-72s ammo will cook off upon penetration resulting in a nicely charred tank. Sometimes it will even throw the turret a bit.
But sometimes the round will just pass through, burning the interior, but otherwise leave the tank intact. From a distance it will look functional.

>> No.13410824

>>13410710
Depeleted Uranium, Radiation poisoning.

What am I reading?

Also it is toxic like lead is toxic due to it being a heavy metal. The radiation from it is on the level of cancer risk if you slept on it every night for 40-50 years.

Fucking urban legends man. I remember in the Marines people would prattle on about how a .50 cal round is so crazy it will kill you if it passes near you due to its super sonic shockwave attack bullshit.

>> No.13410835

>>13410732
vid related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ARjuTKdiIk

>> No.13411076

>>13410001
>>13409964

>>Actually what they could do is accelerate a covenent ship as fast as they can right at a vector toward a mac gun. Even if it gets destroyed, its still a ton of debris heading toward a very delicate weapon at very high speeds

Fluff wise the covenant actually did this, after realizing trying to take out a MAC with their ship's weapons (yes the MAC out ranged everything the covenant had) and the Spartans II were making too hard for the covenant to take down the Nuclear fusion generators powering the MACs they finally decided to use their damaged ships as battery rams to take out the MAC stations

Also according to Cortana the Covenant weapons even being more powerful than their human counterparts would be much more powerful if they actually had the Gauss Equations and formulas interpreted right, with the good mention that when Cortana seized on of the Covenant ships she altered their weapons in such manner it became so efficient it dwarfed all other covenant bigger ship weapons.

The T'au can have better gear because they understand their tech, claiming if they had a size comparable to the imperium they would be using lasguns esque weapons is a silly argument. Even china with its massive army isn't using super outdated gear even though it can't match US or Canada and most western powers in terms or tech.

If you know how your tech works and can manufacture them in a manner to arm an army reliably disregard of the numbers you won't be forced to use cheaper outdated shit to equip your army.

I dare to say with a well equipped army you won't need such massive one such as the IG.

>> No.13411820

>>13410645

Yeah, I was skeptical as well but I cant find any evidence of such a thing ever happening.

>> No.13411839

It's just Tau, by the way. No apostrophe. T'au is the name of their home planet, sept, and system.

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