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[ERROR] No.12695719 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

I want to get into WHFB with my brother, but i know little about the game.
I was thinking of playing a vampire counts army, can anyone give me any tips or advice?

>> No.12695729

They're underpowered in the most recent edition. Fear got way nerfed, and that was their main weapon.

>> No.12695734

>>12695729
Well how about Lizardmen? Are they any good?

>> No.12695749

>>12695734
Quite. But you should choose the race you like the models and fluff for, because rules change pretty easily.

>> No.12695756

Here's my guide to starting WHFB the proper way. First, head over to www.games-workshop.com and take a look at the models that every army can field. Since it seems like you have already narrowed down some choices, I'm going to assume you've already done that, but it can't hurt to do it again. Then, once you've chosen an initial army, download its army book from [rs]. Last I checked every single one was on there, in varying degrees of quality. Read that, and make sure you like the fluff (background information) of the army. Don't worry about the stats for now. Then, if you're still feeling good with the army, find a forum that is dedicated to it. For example, the Beastmen have the Herdstone, Ogres have the Ogre Stronghold, etc. Go to their section about army lists and read the criticisms of 500-ish point lists and find out what units are good and what aren't. Then make your own list. You don't even have to understand the rules at this point. Just make something that looks good. Then post it either on that fan site, explain your situation, and get critiqued, or post it here if you don't want to bother registering for a site. 4chan is helpful, but much less so than dedicated forums.

Now that you have your list (no doubt after much refinement) it's time to make some models. The real deal costs a lot of money, so start by constructing units out of Legos, paper and cardboard, bottles of paint, etc. Try and make your proxy pieces about the same size as the models would be in real life. You can judge the size by asking anons to measure their models.

>> No.12695757

>>12695749
Well i suppose losing isn't the worst thing ever, thanks for the info.

>> No.12695760

>>12695734
They play alright. I personally feel that some of the stuff is slightly over costed by a point or two, and the units themselves lack versatility, but they can hold their own, and the Slann are some of the best wizards in the game. You won't have to worry about break tests very much, but nearly all the ranged attacks are 12" or less, and the troops themselves are super good in combat, though better then most.
Don't even think about taking their named characters though, they are overpriced pieces of garbage.

>> No.12695763

>>12695756
Proxy that army for a while, then slowly buy actual plastic models, starting with the Army Set available from GW. These usually save you $30-ish over buying the models individually, allowing you to buy the army book in hard copy. The main rulebook should be read around now (it's only about 90 pages of rules, the rest is fluff and pics), and to avoid paying $80 for the full version you should be able to get the pocket sized rulebook from Island of Blood, plus scatter dice and all the templates you need on eBay for about $10, if previous sets are any indication. In the meantime, use a .pdf of the rulebook. Plan on spending $200 on a 1,000 pt army (a medium force), more if you get lots of troops, and $50 for paints, brushes, snips, files, tubing, putty, knives, etc.

Keep in mind that the first army you fall in love with almost certainly won't be the one you actually buy. I went through five different armies before settling on Ogres, and changed my mind to WoC while I was at the LGS ordering my products!

>> No.12695787

>>12695756
>>12695763
Thanks, alright ill do that.

>> No.12695795

>>12695763
>>12695756

FUCK ALL THAT NOISE PLAY BEASTMEN AND SMEAR SHIT ALL OVER YOUR OPPONENTS FAGGY MINIS

>> No.12695803

>>12695795
But... but i don't want to play beastmen!

>> No.12695845

>>12695795
>>12695803
Beastmen can actually be pretty boss, pic related

>> No.12695848

>>12695729
>>12695719

In short, Warhammer Vampire no longer Counts.

>> No.12695858

>>12695803
Goddamn yes you do. Everything in this sweet ass army is a goat, a cow, or a fucking PIG. We drive pigs. Two sizes, regular impact hits and EXTRA PIG HITS!!

Play the goddamn beastmen, they were made for a brutal mother fucker like you.

>> No.12695903

Hey where you goin' you bloodthirsty maniac? You haven't even heard about our shitty book lore yet.

We even got a spell for mobbing your fagass opponents stupid Games Derpshop models with slugs and worms, you gonna find that in any other book? NO.

Plus, we can turn mounts against their riders! 3+ armor save for knights vs. their stupid horses? Oh well, at least you tried. Where's that bitch with the skinks on the stegadon? Let's teach his ass a few tricks.

>> No.12695931

Don't act like you know either, because we got PRIMAL FURY.

What's that do? Well, I'm glad you asked you fucking psychopath. Ever roll a bunch of low fucking rolls and hate yourself for it? Well beasts roll low (at least low enough to beat their garbage leadership) and they hate EVERYBODY ELSE!!

Give them TWO axes and they do it twice, jesus shit, roll snake eyes and they go berserk and do it THREE TIMES.

>> No.12695940

>>12695795
>>12695858
>>12695903
>>12695931

I like this guy's enthusiasm

>> No.12695942

>>12695858
Now hold on there. OP should know that the fluff if the new Beastmen book SUCKS BALLS. It is AWFUL, the worst in the game. Every third word is "blood", "gore", "manflesh", "kill", etc. It's retarded. The rules are pretty good, but if you want to play Beastmen but also value fluff, you should probably give more heed to the last edition's rulebook, in edition to huge amounts of logical extrapolation

There are lots of other armies though, pic related, and almost every force can be customized to a great extent. For example, here are some of the most popular Empire army builds: Witch Hunter army, Engineer army, Black Fire Pass army, New World expedition army, Mercenary army, War of the Three Emperors army, Merchant Prince army, Border Prince army, etc

>> No.12695949

>>12695729
vc are actually still pretty good. Given that DoC and WE took a hit too they aren't the only army that got reduced in power lvl by 8th. At least they don't suck like TKs do with their million year old book that was only "ok" to begin with.

>> No.12695957

DEPLOYMENT IS FOR BITCHES.

Beastman ambush, that's what we're about, and let me tell you what; we rake in the pussy for it.

Your opponent will piss his panties wondering where your units will show up and when, and so will you. Crap, was that chasm impassable terrain? Oh well, they were ungors. UNGORS ARE FUCKING CHEAP! Shovel those assholes in and build a goddamn bridge!

>> No.12695958

BEASTMEN ARE THE BEST MEN! I'm trying to start up my bestmen army again, and there are a lot of fun opportunities for conversions. One I'm thinking about is a shaman on a chariot and Skin of Man, modding it to look like a weathered old man in a cloak on a beaten up carriage with two shaggy bulls, maybe give him some Lore of Shadow to mix things up a bit.

>> No.12695970

>>12695795

AMEN BRAHHTHUR!!
Goats for the Goat Lord!!
Tusks for the Tusk Throne!!

However...

You'll be waiting a while for a new Armybook - VC are probably about 5-6th on the list for an update, and need some damn fine erratta to be the god-tier of old. That said, they are cool, Vampires are the customizable bastards you love to hate.

Like others have said, try shit out with proxies. Tiers, competitive, that shit can wait. You're going to be pouring a lot of cash, time and blood in to whatever army you choose. Use your heart, my son.

>> No.12695979

I play Beastmen, and I fucking hate the current book.

>> No.12695981

Okay Beastmen do seem pretty cool... but i'm just not convinced.

>> No.12695985

>>12695942

No, rules wise they in fact suck cock as well.

>> No.12695993

>>12695942
Just don't do saurus spam if you choose to do Lizardmen.
Cold One Cav is basically just giving yourself a points handicap, and any time you run into Lore of Shadows (which nearly every other army has access to) your shit is going to get wrecked.

>> No.12696006

>>12695958
I like the cut of your jib, son. Skin of Man, huh? Going to go trick or treating behind enemy lines dressed like a peasant? Beastman disguises are the BOMB. We fit an entire chariot and a pig the size of a fucking BUICK in that costume and nobody bats a stupid eyelash until it's fucking DEATH SPELLS for everybody!!!

+50 victory points if you can drive your pig over and pinch a loaf in a Sigmarite Church!

>> No.12696014

Beastmen are shite now.

The old Beasts of Chaos book had a lot of character and more importantly wasn't just "hey buy lots of our shitty minotaur models and really expensive big monsters."

Heck even the cover art of the previous book was far better than the new one which just makes them look like men with goat heads as opposed to BEASTMEN.

>> No.12696023

>>12696006
I did not understand a word of what you just said.

>> No.12696029

As usual /tg/ knows dick all about fantasy.

VC are still a really good army. Making use of Forbidden Lore is key to correct play. Lore of Light is so phenomenal for that army that its ridiculous. Ghouls are fantastic, as is the fact you can take 4 Wight Kings in a single unit which, when paired with the aforementioned Lore of Light, is amazing.

Second, Beastmen are balls awful. They have neat fluff and nice models but game play wise its an awful army. Most of the army is overcosted and underwhelming.

>> No.12696044

There is literally NOTHING we won't fucking steal!!

>> No.12696051

>>12696044

If only you could steal a decent set of rules.

>> No.12696082

WHAT?

WHAT?!

YOU AIN'T GOT HOOVES?!

YOU AIN'T GOT SHIT!!!

>> No.12696093

Not Op but could a dear fellow here tell me about wood elves? I've heard they're a piss weak army but the models look pretty cool, and from what I've seen the fluff is a little more interesting than "herp derp elves with bows and trees"

>> No.12696104

>>12696093

>wood elves

>> No.12696138

>>12696044
FFS, that's a 40k Beastmen. The Imperial Guard used to be able to field them as suicide units

OP, seriously though, just find an army you like the "flavor" of, as well as the models behind it. If you don't like those two things, you won't like your army.

>> No.12696144

>>12696093
Yeah they seem pretty cool, perhaps even cooler than beastmen.

>> No.12696151

Basically between the 8th edition fantasy and current beastman army book (and probably to continue when Wood Elves get redone) GW destroyed the whole Beastmen Vs Wood Elf rivalry and changed the core rules of the game so against both armies it is rediculous.

Both can still win ofcourse but not using the old fun characterful styles of play.

>> No.12696172

>>12696093
Wood Elves are the total dicks of WHFB. They're the ones who sell you a gold bar for $0.50, then disappear back into the forest before you realize you just bought a dried turd painted yellow. Rules-wise, people are convinced they suck, but that's because the conventional army builds of the last edition are now moot. WEs are still perfectly viable, you just need a new kind of list. Gone are lots of fast cavalry, archers, and skirmishers. Here to stay are as many Treemen, Treekin, Dryads and Warhawks as you can buy

>> No.12696195

>>12696138
>>12696144

Srsly. It's all about finding an army you love. Sometimes you love it too much. Then it's other peoples' problem.

>> No.12696212

So in summary, fuck the rules get vampire counts because i think they are interesting?
Okay.

>> No.12696236

>>12696172

Yes, gone are all the styles of play that actually match up to how their background represents them...now it is the Treemonic Hawk Army Book.

>> No.12696268

>>12696212
It's the Warhammer spirit.

>> No.12696289

>>12696212
No, just take VC as your first interest. Follow the steps in >>12695756 to be *sure* of your army choice. Don't tell yourself that you're only going to stick with one choice from now on, and be open-minded about rapidly switching gears

>> No.12696315

>>12696289
Excellent point.

>> No.12696320

>>12696212

Yup. Rules are for faggots. Get what raises your dead bones.

>>12696051

You can steal a decent set of rules. Play WoC. Beastmen are Marauders. Centigors become Dragon Ogres (hate that mini) and Minotaurs become Trolls/Ogres.

Grab a Vermin Lord, slap him on top of fuk-hueg rock and there goes your Giant.

This is my plan once my Dark Elves Monster Mash is finished.

>> No.12696365

>>12696320
I like your ideas, even if I disagree that the Beastmen's rules are bad. The Vermin Lord model is awful though, and why would you put it on a rock?

>> No.12696367

rolled 42 = 42

>>12696014

I'm a hardcore Beastmen player, and I agree with this for the most part. Though the only gripe I have, really, is no longer being able to play an entire Minotaur army.

Taken away, for NO FUCKING REASON.

I hate you, Phil Kelly. So fucking much.

>> No.12696403

I followed the same basic pattern the 4th poster mentioned, and ended up with Tomb Kings.

It's a personal choice; I like their steady magic and semi egyptian fluff more then the Count's reliance on big, bad-ass lords with undead dragon mounts.

>> No.12696452

>>12696403
How many points are TK, er, Tomb Kings and princes? They don't seem to have that bad of a stat-line, though I'm not sure what "Embalmed" does.
I've always wanted to start TKs myself, but the majority of the models aren't aren't so great.

>> No.12696498

>>12695942
Okaaay.... how many 'sides' are there?

You get one massive side from the Empire being less of a dick then the Imperium. They're allied with the Dwarves and they might be able to pull in the High Elves (Iffy with the Dwarves) and the Brettonians who those could possibly bring in the Wood Elves (Again, Dwarves). Ogres can get hired by the Empire.

Beastmen, Daemons and Chaos Warriors are together but then they get divided four ways. Lizardmen, Dark Elves, Skaven, Orcs, Vampires and Tomb Kings all get lumped under 'Works by themselves'. We also have the unmentioned Chaos Dwarves, Norscans and fuck all all those other nations that get mentioned but don't seem to have armies (Perhaps because they are culturally progressive and not at all grimdark).

>> No.12696535

>>12696498

Sides...SIDES...what do you think this is, some shitty MMO?

Everyone is out for everyone elses blood unless a pressing threat forces an alliance.

And ofcourse the natural low level intermingling caused by lone adventurers and trade/craftsmen.

>> No.12696554

>>12696535
Bah! The Dwarves have always been the Empire's truest friend. We stand together.

>> No.12696559

>>12696535
Well, we know the Empire is allied with the Dwarves and they got something going on with the High Elves. Dunno about Bretonnia.

>> No.12696579

>>12696559
They're not at war, but it's a rather uneasy peace at times.

Both sides agree the other guy's miles better than the Beastmen, Orcs, and Chaos warriors, though.

>> No.12696585

>>12696498
WHFB isn't quite as fractious as 40k, everyone isn't xenophobic, but there is no end of strife. Bretonnia and the Empire are allied, but the King really has very little control over his actual subjects, so wars between lesser lords and Imperial elector counts are common. Generally speaking, the non-human races have already gone through their immature phases and split into the necessary factions, so it's unlikely that part of Ulthuan will succeed (although the Shadow Warriors of the Shadowlands are close, and some Grey Lords have left) or the Dwarfs to turn on each other, but at the same time, the chance of Wood Elves and Dark Elves getting back together, for example, is nil. Essentially the writers have done a good job of letting the players write their own stories behind the conflicts. If you and a buddy play two allied armies, even then there's a great way you can justify the battle.

All of that said, 8th edition literally did separate the races into Order and Destruction. Just ignore that...

>>12696403
A fine choice. They have some ugly-ass models right now, but they are slated to get the next army book re-release, along with a slew of new figures, sometime in the next three months or so. In the meantime, it's fairly simple to convert Vampire Count skeletons, which are newer and actually very nice, into Tomb King skeletons, which are just crap. Scratchbuilding and heavy conversions can do wonders, pic related

>> No.12696588

I don't know much about whfb, but why aren't the empire and bretonnia allied? At least both sides are human.

>> No.12696614

The Dwarfs and Empire both have an oath of allegiance to help each other when required, due to Sigmar's actions. The High Elves recognize that the Humans in the Old World are a major contributor to holding back the forces of Chaos.
Bretonnia, if it were to exist, would simply be a border nation, and while small skirmishes exist along the borders between the various dukes and counts(This is a major part of the subplot of the Brunner stories), the two nations are not at war.

>> No.12696618

>>12696367
>no longer being able to play an entire Minotaur army.

>Taken away, for NO FUCKING REASON.

Yeah. That is so tragically retarded I don't even have words. All I can really say is that GW lost a customer because of that pointless decision. I was so excited to start a minotaur army and had some fluff about a herdstone they protected and blah blah blah.

But no, why would GW do something that makes people want to buy their product when it is far easier to just systematically ruin all their awesome intellectual properties until they go bankrupt.

I mad.

How can this company turn out awesome (if a little stupid here and there) books like Space Wolves, Skaven and Warriors of Chaos but then turn around and shit out garbage like the new Tyranids, new Beastmen and so on?

They clearly understand that what we want is to have no old armylists COMPLETELY invalidated (such as minotaur lists) and have a few new toys to play around with too. But for reasons no one can understand they only bother to make a book we will like about half the time. What we want doesn't change every six months. Sure the stupid fanboy wishlists do but the core design concepts we want to see have been the same since... forever?
TL,DR: "Fuck you GW I mad why don't I run your company for you because it's painful to watch you assholes do it" is what I'm saying here I guess...

Have an ogre for putting up with my little rant.

>> No.12696672

VC player here, I'll address some of the rumors and concerns pertaining to the Vampire Counts in 8th edition.

>>Zomg fear nurfed VC sucks now without fear!

Fact is that in 7th edition fear was stupidly overpowered. It's also a fact that if you built your army specifically to auto-break and Flee! the enemy into a victory that your army would indeed suck now. Of course, if your enemy deployed the right units or got lucky with dice rolls, your army sucked then too. In short anybody who "relied on fear to win battles" was a shitty player. The only big difference now is that both you and the opponent might actually get to use your fancy units instead of watching them run off a table. Not actually that big a deal.

>>Enjoy painting lots of skeletons, lol! So much worthless infantry!

Well this has been pretty much always the case with VC, and the only change in 8th is that now most other armies are forced to have a shitton of disposable infantry as well. VC core infantry is and always have always been mostly there to tangle up the enemy in big, continually replenishing swarms of skeletons and zombies while you bring your big shit to smash em.

>> No.12696673

If you hate the new beastmen, you are 90% likely butt hurt that you can't field assloads of worthless minotards.

Big blocks of Bestigors turn you on = love new army book.

Worstigors

>> No.12696677

>>12696672

cont...
>>new army building % values screw VC so hard!

VC dumps a lot of points into really powerful characters, so now that you can only allocate a certain percentage to characters, I was pretty worried about this as well. But the percentages for characters break down as 25% for Heroes, AND 25% for Lords, as a separate value. I have yet to play a game in 8th where the percentages prevented me from purchasing precisely the sickly powerful Vampire Lord or Vampire Heroes that I wanted.

Also, it's worth noting that now the % system is the only set of rules governing your Hero population. While unique characters are still unique, generic heroes can now be deployed in multiples that used to be illegal. Do you like Wight Kings, for example? Well now you can have as many as you want in a single army.

>>New magic rules destroyed the VC magic phase!

Well no, not really. The new magic rules certainly make everyone's magic phases a bit less boring and spammy, but you shouldn't have been spending your whole turn casting Invocation of Nehek or Danse Macabre over and over with a single caster anyway.

VC still have pretty much the strongest potential magical options out there. The Lore of Vampires remains a powerful school, and your vampires can have access, indeed entire schools, of any other flavor you like. Also, remember that Necromancers can still violate the "can only cast a particular spell once per magic phase" rule.

If anything, the changes that come with 8th Edition just mean that VC actually has to participate as a real fighting army now, instead of relying purely on fear. The witheringly powerful specials and rares of the VC are still as powerful as they ever were (or slightly more so, in the case of the Varghulf now having thunderstomp). So while there were a few broad, milder-than-reported nerfs to the ease of victory VC used to have, I'd say that they're actually much more fun to play in 8th, since you actually get to /play/.

>> No.12696701

certainly hope the TK get an updated codex some time this decade

>> No.12696709

>>12696677

>VC still have pretty much the strongest potential magical options out there

A Slann Mage-Priest would rape your whole army with his mind.

>> No.12696724

>>12696618
>Space Wolves being a balanced, fair army
>Tyranids not
>trying to convince us this is not a troll post
Nice try

>> No.12696726

>>12696673

Well I'm happy to be in the 10% who actually cared about characterful rules like the herd, move through woods, etc...

I played pure beasts of chaos, never even took items from the Warriors book.

When the whole "rank to 4" thing kicked off I was annoyed, then I was even more annoyed by them making Beast Chariots able to take marks as some kind of half arsed attempt to appease people.

"Oh we've made all your foot troops shite but don't worry now you can make an even better all chariot list."

Fuck em.

The wrecking of Beasts was the start of the end for my involvement with gaming GW. I still have an interest in some of the background and designs but even those they seem determined to screw up these days.

>> No.12696768

Early into 7th I got into WHF. I liked Ogres, bought them, and got the shit kicked out of me every game by high elves, dark elf blackguard/hydras, and a billion armies of plague skaven, to the point where I just gave up. I hear a lot about ogres in 8th now. What changed, really?

>> No.12696786

>>12696701

It's the next one coming out, 3 months or so, they aren't necrons

>> No.12696787

>>12696673
>If you hate the new beastmen, you are 90% likely butt hurt that you can't field assloads of worthless minotards.

Yep. 110% likely really. I admit it. That is exactly why I and everyone I speak to hates the new Beastmen book. The shitty new fluff can be ignored, just like Ward in 40k, but this was just an insulting change and invalidated a lot of peoples lovingly crafted minotaur armies. The fact that the new plastics for them are terrible is kinda sad too but the fact they're a new plastic kit just makes this change all the more mind boggling. They would sell more of those shitty miniatures if you could still make an army out of them.

Can you imagine the uproar if the next Dark Angels codex didn't allow you any way to move Deathwing out of Elites and every single Deathwing Player was forced to field two or more tactical squads? Yeah.

>> No.12696810

>>12696724
I never said a damn thing about balance. I'm talking about customizability and not invalidating army lists. Space Wolves are incredibly customizable. Tyranids, especially in comparison to their previous books, are not.

Are you trying to do one of those troll posts where you call someone else a troll because I don't think you read what I wrote at all.

>> No.12696814

>>12696768
Bust out your Ogres, mate, because they're back, and in a big way

>> No.12696815

>>12696768
Stompy armies are a lot more awesome.

>> No.12696825

>>12696814
What the hell is that?

>> No.12696832

>>12696787
Wow. You know what? I hadn't considered that. I guess that's a very valid reason to hate the new beast book. I just figured all the haters (who largely knew only what they read in the army book) just never got to play them.

They're really not bad, they just LOOK like they'd be bad. If someone plays them, they're liable to just start winning around half your games, maybe more depending on you.

But THIS is the first really thoughtful insight about why the new book hurts.

>> No.12696850

>>12696825

Ogre mammoth, More stompy for the stompiest army there is

>> No.12696870

>>12696832
Glad to help brah.

Luckily it is almost impossible for them tocompletely fuck up my ogres when they get redone. There will still be some kind of ogre unit in core, there will be some kind of ogre lord and I can make an army of ogres.

>> No.12696898

hey op if you really wanna play vamp counts I got an old army I can let go on the cheap, it's a good 1000 point starter (at least), but some of the zombies and skeletons need reassembling, and the grave guard are old metal.

shoot me an email @ [email protected] if you are interested.

>> No.12696917

>>12696870
Can any brOgre players shoot me a link to the 8th ed faq for OK of what changes are, if there is one?

>> No.12696938

>>12696917
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=500004&pIndex=1&aId=3000006
&start=2

Pretend I was a dick and this was actually just a link to google.

>> No.12696940

>>12696917
all you need to know is that ogres get a shit ton more attacks for being big and fighting in ranks.

>> No.12696952

>>12696898
sure hope nothing bad happens to the guy who posts his email on 4chan.

>> No.12696960

>>12696952
done it a bunch of times before, most people on /tg/ seem to be upright anyway.

>> No.12696961

>>12696952
>flclfan89
Sounds like a burner to me.

>> No.12696982

>>12696938
thanks, too dumb today to have found that on there myself.


3 supporting attacks + stomp seems pretty nice. Might have to dust off my old ogres

>> No.12697019

OM NOM NOM MOTHERFUCKERS

>> No.12697594

moar fantasy discussion?

>> No.12697973

>>12697594
In the morning, it's too late to concentrate now

>> No.12698050

>>12697973
it is the morning here in germany

>> No.12698110

Op, 40k is a better game, I suggest you play chaos demons, since they can be used in both games other than soulgrinder, and they can murder space marines, lizard men, you name it

>> No.12698144

skaven here, just noting everybody that we're the new gw's favourite
new models coming in january
oh, did I mention we just got new models and we're included in the starter set

>> No.12698155

>>12698144
Yes-yes, at last our bold plan-plan has come to fruition!

>> No.12698361

Always been fascinated with TK and VC on account they are undead. Is it boss to field a shit load of skeletons/zombies to mob enemy forces?

>> No.12698415

Ugh.. Why did I start high elves..

>> No.12698441

>>12698361
No, you require a corpse cart ALWAYS and there's no unique VC army

>> No.12698451

I've only been playing for about 2 months but I'm loving my Dwarfs, though it make me feel dirty seeing how I play Orks in 40k.

But OP listen to the guys that say to read the fluffs, look at the models and choose an army you like for it not for it's rules.

>> No.12698542

>>12698441
you CAN build different lists for a different kind of playstyle with VC but most people just saw one thing that worked and copy that, it's the same problem with most armies in both games, people get so used to playing one way that when that one way gets nerfed they piss and moan saying it's not a good army anymore.

VC can be very good in this new format if you play up their hoard ability, when the opponant looks across the field and says "there is no way I can kill all that" you have already achieved mental defeat. The skeletons and zombies won't destroy enemies but they can tarpit them. and melee was always a strong point of the vampires leading the armies, ghouls get downright nasty in CC, random charges make threat ranges almost stupid, and blood knights have always been good.

it's not a matter of running the same list, people just need to let go of the old ways of VC and embrace the new breed of lists and the fact that VC's magic has been reduced but by no means completely nerfed out of existence.

>> No.12698608

>>12698361

Lately Ghouls have come into fashion. Though Zombies are cheap they don't tend to do their job extremely well. Unbreakable being what it is, when you loose combat, you take extra wounds depending on what you lost by and since you're going to take a ton of wounds and most assuredly aren't going to win combat you are going to be taking tons of extra wounds. Zombies have no saves and just sort of get chewed up. If they were cheaper, like 2 points like Skaven Slaves, they might be alright but for 4 points and the hindrance of unbreakable, they just cost too much compared to how easily they get chewed up.

Skellies have a similar problem but at least have a shot at winning some combats. They're just too expensive now that Fear doesn't work as well as it used to. But Ghouls. Ghouls are awesome just because they cost the same as Skeletons but all have poison attacks, they can drag down a lot of shit fairly effectively but still maintain a good sized unit count.

From what I understand from VC. The troops are all about holding stuff in place while your monstrously strong vampires, Varghulfs, Black Coaches Grave guard, Blood Knights and other massively strong units smack them. Plus they have very good magic and the ability to constantly resurrect killed units.

>> No.12698621

sigh, anyone want to help me rebuild my "Host of sigvald" themed army for 8th edition?

it shames me that I know more about how to run VC for 8th than I do about WoC which is my main army for fantasy.

>> No.12698667

>>12698621

gotta be honest, I don't know much about WoC. I know what I've heard about them though and what I can discern from just looking at their list.

Big Warrior blocks now work great, especally with Tzeentch Mark or possibly Khorne mark.
Marauders with GW's or Flails with Khorne mark look good because of how cheap they are and you are always going to be able to attack.
Trolls and Ogres look awesome now. Monstrous Infantry got better obviously.

Unfortunately the Slaanesh mark doesn't seem to be nearly as good as it used to be. Fear, Terror and Panic are much more rare and with the BSB you can reroll leadership.

>> No.12698720

>>12698667
I'd roll with the mark of slaanesh even if it gave -1 to my armor, it's just how I roll.

so large blocks of warriors are nasty, how are the marauders with great weapons fairing?

>> No.12698729

>>12698415
Why are you so unhappy about it? High Elves are a very good army in 8th edition.

Swordmasters are the embodiment of RIP AND TEAR and Phoenix Guard are tough as nails.

>> No.12698749

I too have been looking at Vampire Counts - but I'm wondering how soon a new codex/batch of minis will come out? If it's relatively soon I'll probably wait and keep playing FoW.

>> No.12698776

>>12698749
don't expect one for another year or two.

that being said, like I said earlier I have a 1000 point starter for VC if you wanna talk turkey.

>> No.12698845

>>12698776

Consider turkey talked.

>> No.12698996

>>12698845
I would prefer to chat over email as I don't have pics of the army right now (at work) but I can get them to you later, it's a good amount of skeletons a few of them on those elongated square bases for filler models, at least 60 zombies and some are still unassembled, I would guess around 20 graveguard, and 20-30 ghouls (old metal models sorry) I'll include the elfball vampire I was using (sexy female with blood chalice), 2 or 3 necromancers,7-10 old wolves,a few bases of bat swarms, a GW plastic case, and several movement trays.

I don't mind haggling, if you have an army or models you want to get rid of, I accept trades as well as cash.

>> No.12699059

>>12698996

20-30 metal ghouls? Eek.

Also I doubt you'd want to trade as I have nothing but Frames O' Wah stuff.

>> No.12699065

I was really excited about getting into WHFB, so I went to my LGS to see a bunch of the guys play. I saw them throw dices to resove charges. Dices for MOVEMENT. I have lost every bit of respect I had for this game.

>> No.12699166

>>12699059
yeah not a huge FoW fan as I already know the ending to WW2 (spoiler alert: Germany loses)

if you wanna work out a deal though I'm sure we can come to an agreement just shoot me an email
[email protected]

>> No.12699269

>> No.12700526

rolled 51 = 51

>>12696832
>If someone plays them, they're liable to just start winning around half your games, maybe more depending on you.

It's not that I'm losing or anything; in fact, I've had a pretty solid win-lose ratio with them since the new book and it is certainly playable. It's just the minotaur change was unnecessary and felt like a slap to the face. No longer having Marks was also really insulting.

Also, losing the Shaggoth and Dragon Ogres left me with several models that don't have a home, which while they will eventually become part of a WoC force, it's just the principle of the matter.

Wild lore sucks too.

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