Quantcast
[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / g / ic / jp / lit / sci / tg / vr ] [ index / top / reports / report a bug ] [ 4plebs / archived.moe / rbt ]

If you can see this message, the SSL certificate expiration has been fixed.
Become a Patron!

/tg/ - Traditional Games


View post   

[ Toggle deleted replies ]
File: 31 KB, 459x499, 1287073551024.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12578786 No.12578786 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Whats more important in a Codex, fluff or rules?
Obv rules, there's more than enough fluff out there if you want fluff read a book nigga.

Matt Ward writes the best rules - Space Marines and Blood Angels well balanced with character and many different competetive builds.

Unlike Cruddace who ruined a whole army, you never hear people moaning about Ward ruining their army. Well except OnG but that was when he was inexperienced.

So lets stop the Ward hate, even though he writes shit fluff he's the best at where it counts.

>> No.12578802
File: 54 KB, 562x437, hahaha-no.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12578802

>Blood angels balanced

>> No.12578815
File: 223 KB, 448x480, lazor_charge_by_jeenhoong.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12578815

>Blood angels
>balanced
WTF!!!!!

>> No.12578817
File: 522 KB, 1250x1500, haters gonna hate.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12578817

Agreed.

The spiritual liege shit isn't even from the codex, it's from a White Dwarf interview.

The Space Marine list is also the most balanced 5th ed list.

>> No.12578832

>>12578815
>>12578802

What's unbalanced in the BA codex?

It's less powerful than both the SW and Guard codexes.

>> No.12578836

>Also wrote 8th ed fantasy.

Just throwing that out there.

>> No.12578837

>>12578786 you never hear people moaning about Ward ruining their army

Sanguinor

>> No.12578844
File: 86 KB, 479x639, Calgar_playa.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12578844

Ward is a bro.

>> No.12578847
File: 271 KB, 965x1387, sang.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12578847

Did someone mention "the Sanguinor"?

>> No.12578849

>>12578832
Librarian Dreadnoughts... 'nuff said

>> No.12578856

>>12578837

Perfectly balanced.

>> No.12578858

Squad wiping twin blood talon forces.

Fuck the powerfist, you get NOTHING!

>> No.12578863

>>12578849

People have stopped using them at tournaments as they are too expensive for what they do.

>> No.12578872

Ruining Orcs and Goblins was very much enough for me. The spiritual leige, Blood Angels, and every other trainwreck he managed to center around himself is just gravy. He's fucked up so bad, that even attributing everything to "inexperience" isn't enough. He'd literally have to get plastic surgery and legally change his name before anyone would give him an ounce of praise for his work, and that's assuming the thick fucker actually learned anything.

>> No.12578881

>>12578858

The amount of luck required to do that makes it almost impossible.

You might as well coplain about Guardsmen wiping Terminators in close combat.

Lrn 2 math.

>> No.12578884

my girlfriend, who knows nothing about 40k, told me she hated Matt Ward the moment she saw him. this is why she's my girlfriend

>> No.12578899

>>12578872

>haven't actually played with or against those armies
>spouting /tg/ memes

>> No.12578900

>>12578881
Still just that it has the potential makes it stupid and unbalanced... And it can still kill a fuckload of models...

>> No.12578907

>>12578900

A 10-man Conscript unit has the potential to kill a 10-man Assault Terminator unit.

>> No.12578934
File: 212 KB, 1600x1200, 1280165709980.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12578934

I agree. Matt Ward writes great rules. Silly fluff. Picture obviously related.

That being said, I look forward to the Necron codex.

>> No.12578979

It seems that 40k players are still upset that 5th ed is better than 4th ed and pile their rage on 5th ed codexes.

>> No.12578988
File: 314 KB, 750x574, 1278091493211.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12578988

>>12578907
Conscripts don't have power weapons neither the str of a 'naught. You can't compare Conscripts to Blood Talon-wielding Dreadnoughts

Pic related its the Blud Anghelz...

>> No.12578998

>>12578856
I'm not saying that. I'm saying he sucks fluffwise and ruleswise.

>> No.12579008
File: 232 KB, 491x702, 1284660380010.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12579008

>>12578979
My face when 5th Edition was my first edition and all previous versions were shitty and unbalanced.

>> No.12579012

>>12578907
Conscripts come in packs of 30-50. That's a lot better odds.

>> No.12579015

>>12578988
And yet Blood Talon Dread can't win against other walkers. Rock Paper Scissors man.

>> No.12579016

>>12578998

>fluffwise
Agree.

>ruleswise
You are wrong and stupid for believing this.

>> No.12579017

>>12578899
Did you link to the wrong post? There's no /tg/ memes or inexperience there.

>> No.12579034

>>12578934
If only Matt Ward would write the Chaos Space Marines codex...

>> No.12579035

>>12579012
Then Blood Talons? I don't think that 20-30 conscripts have better odds.
Oh and forgot to whine about stupid deep striking land raiders... And semi Thunderhawks...

>> No.12579038

>>12579008

3rd edition:
>herpderp your sniper up in that tower can't shoot because there is a close combat 20 feet down that blocks his los.

>consolidate into combat all day erryday

4th edition:
>hurdur this building is actually size 3 which means you can't see me even though you can clearly see me.

>5-man lasplas everywhere

>> No.12579061

>>12579035

No-one in their right mind deep strike a land raider unless you're playing on planet bowling ball, the risk for mishaps is too great.

The Stormraven isn't a roblem unless you were stupid enough to only take meltas for anti-tank

>> No.12579062

1/10 a bit too obvious brosky

>> No.12579064

>>12579035
Deep Striking Land Raiders ARE stupid, in that they're tactically unsound. Greater chance of a mishap, since they're XBAWKS HEUG, and if that happens, the unit inside (and it WILL have a unit inside, since it can only be taken as a dedicated transport) will die.

Even if the deep striking is successful, you're more than likely within melta range...

>> No.12579073
File: 823 KB, 1111x1084, 1285692316223.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12579073

>>12579034
I agree. He should also write the Ork codex, because the Ork and CSM fluff is INTENDED to be over the top and retarded.

Matt Ward would bring Ork Rokkaz back as a unit and let them grant AOE buffs by playing their electric guitars. BUT THERE'S A SPECIAL RULE. If the Noise Marines and the Ork Rokkaz meet on the field of battle and move within each others' area of influence, ALL OTHER MOVES ATTACKS, AND ASSAULTS MUST STOP while they have a battle of the bands.

>> No.12579079

>>12579035
But are those unbalanced? No they aren't and the rules are fine. No one has said that Ward was a writing genius but the point of this thread is the rules.

>> No.12579082

Why would you even want to derp strike a land raider?

>> No.12579100

>>12579082

You don't.

You just claim peole do and that it's overpowered.

>> No.12579106

>>12579038
No dude, I totally agree with you. I've read the previous edition rules, it's like they let a chimpanzee playtest them, and half the time the chimps were hurling their own waste at each other rather than testing.

5th Edition 4 Lyfe.
Until 6th Edition when they fix all the exploits.

>> No.12579118

>>12579100
Vendettas can Derpstrike too. But nobody ever does this, ever even though they're not 14 all around like Land Raiders.

People will latch on to anything.

>> No.12579136

>>12579016
T4 W3 with no one to drain shooting aimed at him.

>> No.12579146

>>12579073

Indeed, the noise marines forced Rokshokka and his horde to increase the tempo of their song. Many Orks fell that day to the vile tunes of chaos, but Rokshokka had one last gambit up his sleeve. Da Flash Gitz emerged like angels of vengeance and blinded the vile marines with multiple simultaneous disco flashes, allowing Rokshokka to launch into a swift and graceful rock solo, causing the fallen marines to be trapped behind their own basslines.

>> No.12579150

the blood angels codex is balanced? theres a guy at my LGS that hasnt lost a round in our GW tournaments since switching to BA. If its so balanced why is it better in all apsects to the SM codex? oh noes they cant take Land raiders as heavy support choices! they can take like 6 predators. oh yeah and everything is fast and can outflank.

>> No.12579159

>>12579150
SM have better drop pod and bike lists and I think they have better Dread Bash too.

>> No.12579170
File: 101 KB, 813x501, squat.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12579170

2nd edition is best edition.

>> No.12579188

>>12579159

And they have Vulkan.

>> No.12579195

>>12579150
Has he faced a mech guard list with meltavets everywhere in chimeras? I think they would give him a run for his money.

>> No.12579198

Really, when it comes right down to it Matt Ward just writes the best codexes that GW has ever printed. All the armies are very well balanced, both against each other and even against some of the armies that have yet to be updated, an impressive feat considering what utterly unbalanced garbage those codexes were. Rules wise, there really is nothing to complain about, everything is just spot on. And as for the fluff, a lot of people whine because he's a fan of an army they all love to hate really for no reason, but in the end he writes really good fluff that pretty handily beats all the prior codexes. The fan boys all just hate him on a personal level, so they ramble on and on about his work when really his work is damn near spotless and they just don't like him because *gasp* he likes a different army than they do. All the Matt Ward hate threads are just personal attacks because in the end there aren't any legitimate criticisms that can be leveled at his writing.

>> No.12579200

>Matt Ward
Eh, 8th ed. Fantasy was actually ok, so I'll give him props for that. Can't say I'm a fan of his army books though, since he'd rather make up new rules off the top of his head for units rather than working within the rules of the game like Phil Kelly does.

>> No.12579202
File: 1.14 MB, 2008x3123, sustained fire dice.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12579202

>>12579170
I HATED 2E. Mainly because of these fucking things...

Pic related.

>> No.12579227

>>12579146
FUND IT FUND IT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD FUND IT.

Eldar Bonesingers crafting electric guitars out of Wraithbone.

Commissars laying down phat rhymes about busting caps in heretics and representing Holy Terra.

Tau and Necrons having techno raves and light shows.

ROCKHAMMER 40K.

>> No.12579244

>>12579198
They mad because Matt Ward writes codexes that make their OP 4th Edition codexes not OP.

>> No.12579251

Sustain Fire Dice <3
Overwatch <3
Drive-by Power Weapon (Jet) Bikes <3
Pop-up Attacks <3

>> No.12579264
File: 111 KB, 440x640, rt.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12579264

>>12579227

Sounds like Old Trader to me.

>> No.12579265
File: 49 KB, 720x480, thatsapaddlin.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12579265

>>12579251
>Pop-up Attacks

>> No.12579271

>>12579251

Back then Avatars were actually scary to face.

>> No.12579275

>>12579198

Really, this dude has it right, I only hate Matt Ward cause I play Eldar. Sure I get it they're the cash cow, dedicate the fluff to them, dedicate all the good model releases to them, but they took away my craftworld codices and every other codex release is spehss marheen, that shit just aint right. Matt Ward is just the public face of wanking to space marines

>> No.12579285

>>12579251
Oh God Nostalgia...

I remember most games I played took hours.

I used to love arming my Seraphim with Plasma grenades. It used to take about half an hour to work out what happened to all the markers and templates on the board at the start of each turn...

I had several players quit and forfeit rather than bother to try and work out what was going to happen in their turn.

>> No.12579291

>>12579244
Well, not all of them. For instance CSM is still the cheesiest thing ever printed, even with the new codexes, and the Eldar can be pretty damn OP. Fucking fire dragons popping my tanks, those things are way under costed for how good they are.

>> No.12579306

>>12579275
But both Kelly and Ward follow the 5th ed "Special Characters make Special Armies" Doctrine where some (mainly HQ) choices change foc and stuff. So it is likely that Craftworld armies will be back if either of them makes the next CWE book. Again it has nothing to do with Ward.

>> No.12579328
File: 105 KB, 617x617, 1271753587577.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12579328

>>12579291
Not sure if troll.

>> No.12579334

>2E Warhammer 40K

Mole Mortars, Rad Grenades, Webbers, Plasma Grenades, Vortex Grenades, Teleporting Librarians killing your general on the first turn, Ork Armies that could out shoot Imperial Guard, Rhinos only ever being used for suicidal ramming attacks, Imperial Jet Bikes, Terminators having a 3+ save taken on 2d6...

Those were truly the days.

>> No.12579337

>>12579275
Quit whining about losing your ridiculously overpowered craftworld rules. Those were the worst idea GW ever had, and it's a damn good thing they're dead and buried. They were almost as bad as the legion rules for CSM. Seriously, they should just retcon those bastards out of existence entirely so that all the twelve year old powergamers will stop whining constantly to try to get them back.

>> No.12579339

>>12579251

The 2e armor penetration system was much, much better than what we have now.

Old terminator armor was really hard to zerg through with low AP modifier attacks (needed to roll double 1 or 1&2 on saves), but it didn't have the new "save is 2+ whether hit by a lasgun or a krak missile" thing either. Bring back modifiers, it worked fine in 2e and works fine in Fantasy.

>> No.12579340

Matt Ward writes fairly decent Codexes for 40k.

Warhammer Fantasy? He basically destroyed 7th edition by making Daemons overpowered, and then claiming that he did this on purpose.
Keep in mind that he basically ruined the game for tournements because now it all boils down to who made the most optimised Daemon build.
Until 8th Edition came along, almost entirely tailor made to counter just how powerful they were.

Okay, almost entirely is unfair, 8th Ed brought some other changes to the mix, but the nerf to regen, fear + terror and the boost to Artillery all seem designed to bring Daemons down to same sort of level where it's possible to beat them.

He also deliberately made Orcs and Goblins suck because he was throwing a hissy fit and being made to do their armybook.
Again he admitted this during an interview. In fact I think it actually got printed in an WD.

It was so bad that even REDSHIRTS bitch about Matt Ward.
These are the people that GW pays pittance to work extra hours in a place used as a creche by bored parents and basically whore themselves to sell their product and who STILL sing the companies praises and want to work there.

I agree with what people are saying about his 40k codexs, although he does seem to be under the impression that the plot is moving along in 40k, when it isn't supposed to... Otherwise they seem okay.

>> No.12579356

>>12579251
Assault cannon causing 10 wounds per attack, with a maximum of 9 attacks <3

>> No.12579362

>>12579339
The problem with it was that most of the time NOBODY got to role an armour save.

And way too many guns had an armour modifier, bolters were really deadly in 2E.

>> No.12579372
File: 103 KB, 283x244, huge guts.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12579372

>>12579356
>Rolling 3 Jams when firing a Sustained fire weapon.

>> No.12579379

>>12579362
Wasn't 2e the HeroHammer era, too?

>> No.12579384

>>12579285
oh and I could own an entire never ending torrwent of tyranids with my harlequins. GRENADE SPAM; smoke (that remained on the board in templates), rad (counters with a AOE damage), haywire (bye bye landraider), and plasmas and hallucinogenics everywhere!

though if the BA player got them 3-4 psychic powers (hammer hand, quickness and some others) on Memphisto then itw as all over, Farseer & Solitair be damned.

>>12579339
yes, modifiers!

>> No.12579391

>>12578786
>Blood Angels
>Well Balanced

>> No.12579403

>>12579391
It is nice that you finally understood it too, mr. Wardhatingforumtroll.

>> No.12579412
File: 114 KB, 558x484, IG statline.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12579412

>>12579379
Yup.

The days when an IG Colonel had a better statline than a Space Marine.

>> No.12579417

>>12579362

That was the fault of implementation more than that of the system though.

If current bolters had their AP5 replaced with a -1 modifier, even Guardsmen would still get a save. The situation for boyz would be the same as it is now.

Another issue was that non-terminator saves usually got to 3+ max, while in Fantasy 1+ is currently the cap. Getting to take Invulnerable saves/FNP in addition to armor save would also help.

>> No.12579425

>>12579379
Memphisto with the right Psychic Powers could solo an entire army on his lonesome (well eh could be tag-teamed by a Farseer and Solitair but it would be a fair fight two vs one).

>> No.12579433

>>12579337

You're missing my point buddy, I don't give a shit about losing an overpowered book, I'd love it if they brought back craftworld armies with significantly weaker rules, I'm just mad that the entire game is geared toward an army I don't give a shit about, and that non-space marine players need to wait around while GW makes yet more chapter codices

>> No.12579454

>>12579433
Eldar codex was younger than Blood Angels and yiffs.

>> No.12579466
File: 157 KB, 594x554, Librarian.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12579466

>>12579425
Any Librarian was a CC monster in 2E.

Turn 1: Teleport across the battlefield, kill your commander, half your army panics and runs off the table.
Turn 2: Plasma and Rad Grenades everywhere.

Turn 3: You lose.

>> No.12579505

>>12579466
Force weapon=S8 always!

>> No.12579588
File: 109 KB, 940x595, avatar.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12579588

Wailing Doom did d3 wounds per hit too...

>>
Name (leave empty)
Comment (leave empty)
Name
E-mail
Subject
Comment
Password [?]Password used for file deletion.
Captcha
Action