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12466914 No.12466914 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

how does GW reincorporate squats without just having them as LOLDWARVESINSPACE?

>> No.12466927

...They don't?

>> No.12466931

They don't.

>fiespen returns
No, captcha. Squats are dead, and they'll stay dead.

>> No.12466937

demiurg

>> No.12466938

>>12466927
Pretty much this.
Or Demiurge, maybe.
But they're a dead race in a dead system, possibly vaguely referenced in the *snigger* Tau Codex...

>> No.12466992
File: 47 KB, 288x442, myaxeINSPESS.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12466992

>>12466931
I AM LORD FLESPEN!!
HERALDED BY THE CAPTCHA, MY RACE AND I COME ONCE AGAIN TO CONQUER THE STARS!!!!
OURS IS THE RACE THAT WILL PIERCE THE RETCON!!!
WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK WE ARE!!!!!???????

>> No.12467043

>>12466992
Ok this made me have a good laugh.

>> No.12467062

I don't know, OP. Why don't you ask GW? After all, they'd know best what to do with squ

>> No.12467083

I'll assume you mean "would".

And I'd offer the Squats being a very artillery/tanks/robots based army. There being very few of them.

Their motives would be GRUDGES. GRUDGES EVERYWHERE.

>> No.12467106

>>12466992

See, THIS would actually make 40k interesting, a race of Dwarves based off Gurren-Lagann.

>> No.12467112

>>12467083
>artillery/tanks/robots based army. There being very few of them.
>VERY FEW OF THEM
Guard, Guard Everywhere.
Model them as Dorfs in Spess if you must, but christ...
>GRUDGES. GRUDGES EVERYWHERE.
...THAT IS NOT THE BASIS FOR AN ARMY.

PEOPLE

SQUATS DIED FOR A REASON

THE CONCEPT WAS SHIT

IT WILL ALWAYS BE SHIT

DEAL

>> No.12467116
File: 189 KB, 843x587, demi1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12467116

>> No.12467123
File: 67 KB, 228x578, demi2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12467123

>>12467116

>> No.12467130

rolled 96 = 96

>>12467106
Evryone dress like they where gay and then just die in the last two minutes of the series.

Could work, but... not very GRIMDARK.

>> No.12467132
File: 61 KB, 240x553, demi3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12467132

>>12467123

The actual BFG rules can be still found in GW's site probably.

>> No.12467134

>>12467112
Isn't the initial concept the exact same as every other 40K army? Take Fantasy, put in space. Take Fantasy Dwarfs, put in space.

I don't personally play Fantasy, what role do they play there?

>> No.12467137
File: 48 KB, 621x480, what is wrong with your face.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12467137

>>12467112

>> No.12467142

Space Dwarves are now a fungus. Fungi that need to be hydrated with alcohol and kept under groun most of the time. That makes them sufficiently different from Fantasy to keep them.

>> No.12467145

Look up "demiurg"

>> No.12467153

>>12467142

but Orks are already Space Fungus

>> No.12467158

>How do you have LOLDWARVESINSPACE without it being LOLDWARVESINSPACE?

>> No.12467175

>>12467134
So, Humans in space, green barbarians in space, haughty fucking bastards in space and dark cousins of the evil haughty bastards in space.
See, these all translate fairly well.
Now let's think what a dwarf is.
Surly drunken short arse bastard who mines a lot, with a beard bigger than his body and an axe.
Surly drunken short arse bastard who mines a lot, with a beard bigger than his body and an axe IN SPACE.

It didn't work then.
It won't work now.

>> No.12467188

The problem isn't the dorfs

it's that they have no niche

IG are already the tank and artillery army

and space marines are the STUBBORN SO STUBBORN SOOOO STUBBORN army

dorfs have no role to fill

>> No.12467207

>>12467188
DRUNK SO DRUNK SOOOO DRUNK

>> No.12467213

>>12467188
Nor do Tau.
HURR we shooty as all in hell when the metagame favours melee!!
Nor do Crons.
HURR we're space undead that only function as 1 type of army which again specialise at shooting shit, the metagame favours melee, but our melee troops dying cause you to instantly lose the game if too many pop.

But both still exist.
Cause they look cool and sell.

Fantasy Dwarves are walking beards with an axe/tankard sticking out, and they look fucking stupid. Always have. Always will.

SPESS DORFS were the god damn midgit village people on motortrikes.
They were fucking stupid, and it had nothing to do with niche, they just didn't sell as a concept.

>> No.12467218

>>12467207
space wolves, sorry.

See? space marines do everything

>> No.12467219

>>12467188
>space marines are the STUBBORN SO STUBBORN SOOOO STUBBORN army
No, they're the Vanilla army that has a bajillion and one variants.
Combat roles aren't solely filled by ONE army in 40K, and NO OTHER. This isn't Warmahordes.

>> No.12467220

FUCK YEAR DEMIURG, GIVIN ION TECH TO TAU AND AIN'T GIVIN A SHIT ABOUT THE IMPERIUM

>> No.12467262

Run them as space pirates and mercenaries and make them play as hit and run specialists

>> No.12467265

>>12467116
>>12467123
>>12467132

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1280012_BFG_Tau_Fleets.pdf

Yup. New spess dorfs still canon.

>> No.12467268
File: 41 KB, 527x424, Firelance.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12467268

>>12467220

>> No.12467272
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12467272

>>12467262
>hit and run
>speed
>DORFS

>> No.12467284

>>12467265
The only thing that makes the Demiurg Spess Dorfs is that ONE concept sketch which was NEVER OFFICIALLY RELEASED.
Show me where, in Canon, it's stated they are described, and that said description matches Dwarves.

>> No.12467291
File: 32 KB, 240x317, img20080406194332368.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12467291

motherfucking chaos squats

>> No.12467304
File: 98 KB, 800x588, hades_breaching_drill-01.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12467304

>>12467272
>hit and run
>implying speed
>DORFS

>> No.12467305

>>12467175
Really? I see a way.

The Squats were a race who were founded on a world of little mineral wealth in the beginning, so their journey into the stars was primarily driven by the search for resources and metals not found on their own world. Their government was an oligarchy on major trading families until this point, each Chiefs of a Clan, but the mining Clan soon devoured all these and the Mining Empire of the Squats was founded. Upon finding warp travel and other races they soon set up a business plan: Crush those that can be crushed for their wealth and trade with those that can't.

Using their quick business minds and their now large sources of otherwise rare materials they become a major power.
Orkz can't be traded with and are a threat to business.
Imperium does not trade all that well and it would be in their interest to see parts of it splinter off.
Chaos is just bad.
Tyranids as well.
Necrons too.
Eldar could have caused a grudge.
As could the Tau.

Their personal personalities tend to be business inclined, they hold grudges highly and family loyalts. They are also indulgent and hedonistic due to their wealth when they have time but can be very hard working and pragmatic.

>> No.12467324
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12467324

motherfucking RUSSIAN squats

>> No.12467329

Well, to properly sell Squats, you need to do a few things.

1) The fucking name. Demiurg is a good way to get around it. It's not LOLDORFS, it's a semi-Grimdark name for the crazy Ork-hatin' bastards.
2) Give 'em a gimmick. This is the hard part, especially considering how close the Guard are to our 'ideal' Spessdorfs (Shooty, lots of dudes, great tanks), they need a new concept.

Since they're already played up in BFG as intense Ork haters, why not run with that a little? Make them a small, elite army, concentrating on high tech. Their machines will be halfway between Eldar and Ork; elegant, but with a robust practicality. They've got skimmer tech, but they also mix in non-skimmer units.

Now, for weapons. Each race has an iconic 'basic' weapon. Whether it's the Imperial flashlight, Necron rave-beams or the glorious power of Spess Mehrene Bolters, you need something unique and interesting.

Again, halfway between Eldar and Ork. Something well-crafted, with a stocky robustness, such as heavy mining lasers.

Sure, it's a bitch to revive, but I'm sure /tg/ could write a damn codex and make it not suck if they wanted to. Not to mention the number of sculptors, scratchbuilders, and other guys willing to do work on this sort of thing.

>> No.12467332

>>12467304
Heavy Mining Equipment does not imply speed either...
Mining...
OH!! Yeah, ok, Hit from Below Ground and...well, not run so much as...
NO, it still makes no sense!! HEAVY MINING EQUIPMENT even from below ground, yeah, one shock attack, but fuck no will there be any running.
So yeah,
>Hit and Run
>Speed
>MINING EQUIPMENT
NO.

>> No.12467341

>>12467284
there is a class of demiurge ships called 'stronghold class'.

if that isn't obvious enough for you, get your head checked.

>> No.12467375

>>12467284
battlefleet gothic you dumb fuck

>> No.12467377

>>12467305
A Race of Traders.
Sounds fucking exciting.
No really, it does.
No sarcasm here at all.
I would totally buy an army of traders over Spess Muhreems, Humans in tanks, Weaboo Spess Elves, DARK Weaboo Spess Elves, Blue Commies, Robot Undead, Zergs, Orkziz, Sisters, Inquisiton, a bajillion and twelve marine variants with and without spikey bits, living bad thoughts from space hell. . .yeah, with all those choices, each evocative if daft in their own way I would totally consider an army of Traders.
Totally fucking exciting.

>> No.12467394

>>12467341
>>12467375
So, you got nothing then?
Yeah, I know it's BFG, and yeah, implying only a spess dorf could make a stronghold.
But still, nowhere in BFG OR ANYWHERE ELSE EXCEPT FOR THAT UNOFFICIAL BIT OF CONCEPT ART do we have descriptions of them as Dwarflike in any way.
Prove me wrong.

>> No.12467418

>>12467394
hmmm.... i'm not a doctor now, but i think the diagnosis is clear. son, you've got BUTTHURT.

>> No.12467419

I think they are possible if you go the demiurg route.
Traders/miners, high tech. Equipment are modified mining tools/machines.

>> No.12467430
File: 30 KB, 553x450, demiurg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12467430

They look like dwarves, and no material contradicting this has been ever released.

>> No.12467434

Make them Chaos Dwarves in Space, theme-wise. They're like chaos obliterators, only with blunderbusses, drills and fire breath. They could be like a native version of the tyranids that eats chaos instead of biomass. Instead of simple dying, they become bull-centaur-things. Then when they die as bull-centaur-things, they just fucking die.

>> No.12467436

>>12467377
Dude, they are miners. Space Miners.

DRILLS EVERYWHERE. POWER PICKAXES. EXPLOSIVES.

FILLED WITH GOLD.

WHAT THAT YOU SAY? SPACE MARINES? TANKS? FUCK YOU, THERE'S DRILLS!

AND A SPECIAL DRUNK REGIMENT. JUST BECAUSE.

>> No.12467446

>>12467430
Yeah, except that sketch has never been officially released either, has it?
So nothing confirms they are dorfy, and nothing denies it.
That was a concept sketch, never released, thus never official.

>> No.12467457

>>12467377
Think East India Trading Company with mining as well. If it were run by the Scottish.

IN SPACE.

Awesome colonialism.

>> No.12467463

>>12467436
Still not enthused.
Orks have drills too.
They don't theme an entire army around it.
Because "Ork" is concept enough.
"Spess Dorf" isn't.
Squats are dead, never coming back.

>> No.12467467

>>12467377
>Zergs

Zerg were based on Tyranids, not the other way around, fucktard.

>> No.12467470

>>12467463
Space Dorf isn't enough of a concept, but Space Elf and Space Orc is?

>> No.12467481

>>12467463
>Orc is enough for an army
>Dwarf is not enough for an army

>> No.12467482
File: 21 KB, 272x299, Tau Sympathizer.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12467482

>>12466914
The Tau are space Dwarves.
The parallels:
Greater good, for clan and king.
Masters of technology

>> No.12467484

>>12467457
Except they wouldn't be.
Because they aren't part of the Imperium, thus they have no power.

The East India lads were only powerful because they were part of an empire that ruled half the fucking planet.

The Spess Dorfs don't own half the fucking galaxy, now do they?

Or, would you be happy with a Galactic Retcon...?

>> No.12467485

>>12467446

Still, the concept art, space mining ships, special hatred of Orks and names such as "Thurm Brotherhood" all indicate that they are indeed the dorfiest of dorfs.

You are never going to convince anyone that they're not dwarves in space, sorry.

>> No.12467499

>>12467482
Tau technology is behind in most areas, they have a smaller army to supply.

>> No.12467502

Fuck it, /tg/. We've got the manpower.

Let's build a fucking Demiurg codex. Scratchbuild the units. Convert shit up. Build a goddamn race to live in the grimdark and kill some goddamn Orks.

We've got space knights. We've got space elves. We've got space orks. We just need some freakin' dwarves up in this business.


Who's with me?

>> No.12467505
File: 155 KB, 919x1411, 2e nids.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12467505

>>12467467

and Tyranids were a complete ripoff of Aliens, until they made them more pointy and less phallic.

>> No.12467509

>>12467377
Worked with the Ferengi. They are one of the most popular races in Star Trek.

>> No.12467515

>>12467502

No. /tg/ is terrible at both design and balance, and forming a codex with a bunch of people just randomly arguing what should be in and what should it do will never work. Sorry to ruin your enthusiasm.

>> No.12467519

>>12467470
>>12467481
Haughty Bastards in Space, dying elder race.
Barbarians in space, hungry for war over the stars.
Good concepts.
DRUNK AND GRUDGES AND AXES AND MINES in space.
Yeah. No.
>>12467467
That was the joke, DerpTard.
>>12467485
>indicate
FanWank.
Nothing confirmed.

>> No.12467525

>>12467470

yeah

>> No.12467529

>>12467463
Mining, greed, hedonism, drunks, gems, gold and grudges.

Those are the four materials the backdrop allows. I can seen an army built around that.

>> No.12467534

>>12467509
No, Quark was popular.
The Spess Jews he came from were fucking retarded.

>> No.12467535

>>12467519

>DRUNK AND GRUDGES AND AXES AND MINES in space.

aside from mining, that's the Space Wolves pretty much.

>> No.12467536

>>12467515

I'm gonna write a space dorfs codex by myself and come back later with some rules

later

>> No.12467543

>>12467529
Industrialism, business, idiotic experiments in the name of Science! And obsessiveness with Craftsmanship.

The question is: What would the army play like?

>> No.12467547

>>12467268
>firelance
But that's an Ion Cannon Frigate from the Kushans

>> No.12467554

>>12467519
Only because you put it in those terms.
Determined fallen race that wishes to rebuild and gain revenge, in space. How's that for the basis of an army?

Also you'd have to be retarded not to see the Demiurg are based on Dwarves. GW hasn't explicitly said Eldar and based on Elves, you going to deny that?

>> No.12467565

>>12467534
Quark was a typical Ferengi, done right. The Ferengi were liked quite a bit when it was seen they could be done well.

>> No.12467567

>>12467547
The Kushan Ion Cannon Frigate was called the "Firelance".

>The Firelance-class Ion Cannon Frigate was developed by the Kushan using technology purchased from the Bentusi. The frigate is a simple design, basically the Vengeance with all the bulk around the central hull removed along with all the turrets. Instead, there is just the basic, thin frigate chassis with a long particle accelerator unit running down its center spine, a fusion power plant, the engine, and crew space. The ship has no secondary weapon to speak of.

>Even so, despite this simplistic design the Firelance is a force to be reckoned with and possesses immense firepower used to tear through a frigate or super capital ship hull when used in greater numbers; even a careless fighter pilot can be shot if it zooms past the barrel. Its main weakness comes from its lack on maneuverability and speed and the fact that its single Ion Cannon has a slow fire rate and can only fire in one direction, with 1% frontal coverage. This leaves it very vulnerable to strike craft and should never be deployed without an escort. Traditionally, the first sign that a battle is lost is when the Firelances, under heavy fire, begin to pull back and retreat.

>> No.12467582

>>12467529
>Mining
Menial labour, ancillary, shouldn't be the focus of a war. You fight the war to gain the resource, and then said miners in after. Your soldiers aren't also miners, that's daft.
>greed
Covered by the Imperium, or the Nids.
>hedonism
Slaanesh and the Dark Eldar up in this motherfucker.
>drunks
wow, yeah, sounds great
>gems
Eldar, soulstones.
>gold
The Sanguinor and Company, the Imperium, hell, a Fruity Batch of Crons. How is "gold" a concept for an army!!???
>grudges
It's 40K
Every fucker hates every fucker else.
Unless you're Tau.
But Tau are ass fucking backward Spess Commies who destroy all that they can't assimilate.

>> No.12467598

>>12467567
well, shit
your homeworld-fu outclasses mine

>> No.12467608

'Squats' as a distinct culture are gone forever, but stable abhuman strains with a 'Squat' body structure can still be found within the Imperium even in today's fluff; to represent them you'd just play using the Imperial guard rules with converted models.

If you want non-imperial space-dwarves, you have to go Demiurg.

>> No.12467624

>>12467554
We have art of Eldar, they look elvish.
We have one concept sketch of a demiurg, it looks Kinda Dwarvish if you squint. There's a fuckign decade of fluff for Eldar, all looking as elvish as elves can be.
You can't compare that to two ships in BFG and an unreleased sketch.
That's fucking stupid.
As for your description, revenge against what? Everything? No, sorry, it's 40K, everyone hates everyone.
A motivation like "we're fighting" isn't enough.
The Eldar are trying to rebuild and survive, so that's that theme covered.
And determined...? Who the fuck ISN'T determined in 40K!? You fucking need to be.
>>12467565
Like I said.
Quark was popular.
Not the Spess Jews.

>> No.12467651

>>12466938
I like the idea that the Space Dwarves, seeing the Tau slowly falling apart, have return from the grave to hammer them back into shape so the galaxy can avoid a Dickhead Imperium 2.

>> No.12467674

I've an idea for Squats, based more on Chaos Dwarfs than regular ones and mixed with Dorfs:
Driven to desperation after near extinction they turn to a devious source (Insert element of Chaos or other malicious but powerful force) and they were gifted with genius. But with that genius came madness.

Very powerful explosives and artillery, highly advanced. However have a high chance of blowing up in their face. Others are crazy Slayer equivelants, they will not leave the battle until they are dead.

A brilliant, but mad, race storming through the galaxy with highly advanced but unstable technology.

>> No.12467692

>>12467519
This "fanwank" is fucking obvious. GW is about as subtle as a sock with a brick in it hitting you in the face. It's hardly surprising they'd throw a race based on one of their Fantasy armies, is it? Especially when they have tried it before.

>> No.12467695

They should rip off Elder Scrolls and make them high-tech short Babylonians.... IN SPESSS.

TBH, that might get me back into 40k.

>> No.12467703

>>12467692
>obvious
Still not confirmed.
No official descriptions of them.
No official art, as that concept sketch was never officially released.
It's all fanwank.
Not a jot confirmed.
Deal.

>> No.12467705

>>12467554Determined fallen race that wishes to rebuild and gain revenge, in space. How's that for the basis of an army?

yeah, that's why I play Eldar.

>> No.12467716

The Demiurg are going to provide new and improved Warp Drives to the Tau in the 2011 codex.

Haters gonna hate.

>> No.12467718

>>12467703
We don't need GW to say "Yep, based on Dwarfs.". They didn't do that with any other race. We don't need a drawing of them either because even if they don't LOOK like them their names and culture is clearly based on them.

We don't need GWs confirmation that anything is based on anything. We didn't need their confirmation to see the Rainbow Warriors were Aztec based or the Space Wolves are viking based. It's obvious.

>> No.12467725

>>12467705
Except the dorfs would be happy not to be noticed in their rebuilding.

Squats with stealth!

>> No.12467732

Dwarves in space.

Okay so what qualities do dwarves have? They are stubborn, greedy, industrious, stout, love drink, good fighters, tough, pragmatic, master metal smiths, and brave.

How does this work as a millitant society? a militant society in space?

Here is how I would do it. They are an offshoot of humanity, stemming from a high-gravity world with a sun that was either close or very hot. This caused them to flee underground during the great age of expansion. They never left and were eventually forgotten. Underground they changed greatly becoming what they are now. While mining underground they discovered a new kind of metal (for now I'll call it adamantium) this metal was lightweight, super tough and very good at heat dispersal. Utilizing this new found resource they began to expand into their local sector. They did this in huge colony ships. They were well suited to space travel, their size and pragmatism meant that there ships were totally functional with ample room to allow for solid (if not particulary elegant) ship components. Thus began their expansion into space. The further they had to travel from there planet though they realized they would need a way to create more of the metal. They developed a means to synthesize from some other metals and allows and notably huge amounts of carbon. In order to began repairs they would have to go to a planet and strip mine it for its metals and all its carbon bearing resources (notably all of its life, often including sentient races if they need to repair there ships badly) they care little for other races, while not actively trying to kill them, once they have put down local resistance they will mine a planet right out from under them, stranding the locals on a mostly barren worthless rock.

>cont.

>> No.12467743

>>12467718
>eldar
>originally "Space Elves"
>orks
>blatant
>Chaos
>also blatant

...yeah?

>> No.12467747

>>12467674
That could maybe work, but it'd need stuff to make them different from Orkz. Less of them would be the obvious difference, a more high tech theme and different forms of insanity. Perhaps units based on different conditions? That might be cool. But it could work.

>> No.12467748

>>12467718
Yeah, all those are obvious cause we have a metric fucktonne of official art, fluff, and descriptions.

We don't have any of that for the Demiurg.
Nothing.
We have two ships, and not even a description of the race.
Why is this so hard to grasp?
I'm not saying "we need GW to say yup, dey dorfs" I'm saying GW has said sweet fuck all about them, and released fuck all about them, and the fans have just gone wild on breadcrumbs.

>> No.12467751

>>12467543
This isn't bad, but ramp up the capitalism. A greedy race that is entirely profit driven. Could have special rules that revolve around profit, for instance negative moral modifiers if high point cost units are lost, as the mission is becoming 'unprofitable'. Mining equipment could be the mainstay, so a lot of melta type short range weapons, no skimmers, maybe tanks with special rules that allow them to ignore or take extra advantage of cover and difficult terrain.

>> No.12467756

>>12467748

Yeah, because it'd never be obvious what factions called "Eldar" and "Orks" would be based on if not for all that.

>> No.12467767

Make them LolDorfs in space.
Or, you know, just make 'em Demiurg.
"Squats" becomes a crude nickname coined by the Guard.

>> No.12467770

>>12467756
Yeah, cause Demiurg totally sounds like Dorf in spess...
Butthurt cunt, do you have a point?

>> No.12467771

>>12467743
Alright, fair point. They did confirm some things.

But we didn't need any confirmation to see the White Scars were mongols in space, did we? Or the Rainbow Warriors were aztec based. Or the Praetorian Guard were colonial Britain based. Or that the Raven Guard were influence by the work of Poe. Or any number of obvious references because it's clear to see.

>> No.12467776

>>12467751
Maybe just take that concept and add it to the next tau codex, see how it runs and maybe some time in the very distant future make a demiurg codex.

>> No.12467784

>>12467770

I don't care about the Demiurg, for I'm not the one you're arguing with. I just felt like pointing out a flaw in your logic.

>> No.12467796

>>12467732
This fluff allows for conflict against all the other major factions.
Imperium - Erstwhile allies and enemies. They will strip an imperial planet as quickly as any other but they realize that they need to atleast present a trustworthy front otherwise they will be crushed. They will work together if it suits both sides. The imperium has problems dealing with the roving Space Dwarves in local sectors primarily because of the quality of their ships. The huge Mountainships are the size of large moons and carry and escort of hundreds of smaller ships ranging in size from battleships to snub-fighters.
Eldar - The Eldar and the Squats do not see eye to eye. The Squats desperately want to mine and strip the Exodite worlds and want access to Wraithbone. All trading and military attempts have failed in terms of the latter.
Tau - The Squats cling stubbornly to their own ways. They will never answer the call to the greater good. And will fight to the death for their favored religion.
Nids-Obvioius
Necrons-Once again obvious (with the added incentive of the Squats wanting Necron living metal for there stuff)
Orks-The ork worlds sit atop huge untapped resources. The Orks never mine, there worlds could be filled with valuable metals. But they will never back off until they are all dead. Not to mention that the wreck of one of the Mountainships is currently being used as an Ork Rok.

>Cont.

>> No.12467798

>>12467175
Wait, if evil haughty bastard in space works why wouldn't short grumpy and probably drunken bastard in space work?

>> No.12467799

>>12467771
We don't need to see it in writing for any of those, cause we have A TONNE OF FLUFF FOR THEM ALL AND WE CAN DRAW THE PARALLELS.
WE DON'T HAVE SHIT FOR THE DEMIURG
NOTHING
EXCEPT TWO SHIPS
WE CAN SPECULATE, OH DEMS COULD BE DORFS LOL, BUT WE HAVE NOTHING SOLID

You see "great khan", an army on "horseback" and all the other white scar fluff, you can easily go, oh yeah, fine, that's Mongols in Teh Spess.

You see "Stronghold" and "Demiurg" and that's about all, suddenly its "OH EM GEE TEH SPESS DORFS AM ALIVE AGEN!!!"

>> No.12467818

>>12467798
The Haughty bastards are part of a culture of "dying race" that translates really well to sci fi.
Drunk Fighting Angry Bastard tends less to.
Though if we were to just suggest "make the Squats Klingons" the butthurt would be too great to contain.

>> No.12467821

>>12467799
go back to GW you obvious redshirt

>> No.12467823

>>12467776
Actually, that would seem to be the most logical way to add Demiurg to TT 40k. There are already a shitload of fully-developped race, and it looks doubtful GW would add yet another one.
On the other hand, the Kroot way could work well : a few units in the codex, and the rest developped by ForgeWorld.

>> No.12467824
File: 4 KB, 120x90, 2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12467824

I remember telling my dwarf obsessed friend there were dwarfs in 40k, both of us naive and filled with hope of fun.

I also remember breaking the news to him that they were eaten by nids. He is bitter to this day. I suppose I am somewhat too.

>> No.12467826

I forget who the Demiurg race is.

Are they the advanced merchant race?

Because I have to say...
Dwarf names? Check.
Money connection? Check.
Technology connection? Check.

They seem to have quite a bit of a Dwarf connection, it's clear that's what GW is going for.

>> No.12467835

>>12467770

In case you didn't know, Demiurge means "craftsman/artisan". Yeah, that doesn't describe dwarfs at all.

>> No.12467851

>>12467835
No, Demiurg means the false creator god that demands worship when it deserves none.
What does crazy ass theology have to do with Dorfs?

>> No.12467858

>>12467818
>Squats
>Klingons
I... actually support this 100 %. That's a great hook to steal, honour! Infantry with strict codes of conduct but never really run away.

Although Ultramarines do have the whole regulations schtick... but they never seem to stick to it all that much.

>> No.12467871

To be honest, I'd just be happy if they made a Squat regiment in the Guard.

Who's with me?

>> No.12467876
File: 45 KB, 400x268, brian-blessed-dave.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12467876

>>12467818
>make the Squats Klingons
>MAKE THE SQUATS KLINGONS

>> No.12467882

>>12467851

Look it up, son. You might learn something about Greek.

>> No.12467895

>>12467796
I feel there tabletop niche would be the easy field of really large vehicles. Large vehicles with good armor and transport capabilities but no weapons (rolling barracks or mining equipment). I feel like they would prefer to use super-high precision to destroy their enemies. So there super heavy tank, instead of firing huge cannons would instead bristle with anti-infantry weapons or "precise" vehicle destroyers. Melta and things like las would be the norm. They do this so they don't destroy the resources that might be salvageable from the battlefield.

Their units themselves would be tough, with decent armor, but not any stronger than other armies. They would have little access to actual fast vehicles. Their fast attack being composed of deepstriking drills, or drop craft.

>> No.12467912

No, imbecile.

>The word demiurge is a Latinized form of the Greek δημιουργός, dēmiourgos, literally "public worker", and which was originally a common noun meaning "craftsman" or "artisan". The philosophical usage and the proper noun derives from Plato's Timaeus, written circa 360 BCE, in which the demiurge is the organizer of the universe, rather than the creator of a physical substratum.

It meant craftsman long before gnostics grabbed the word for their purposes. Was your history teacher Dan Brown or something?

>> No.12467919

>>12467771
>Or the Rainbow Warriors were aztec based.
They weren't Aztec based, that was one player's personal fluff. The Rainbow Warriors were based on Greenpeace's boat.

>>12467799
Demiurg are technologically advanced miners who hate orks. That fits pretty well with Dwarves.

>> No.12467928

>>12467871
Surprisingly, I find myself liking the Demiurg fluff (which is pretty consistent, despite what some uneducated anon said) much more than its Squat counterpart.

Still, something like ratlings and ogryns could be nice.

>> No.12467938

>>12467919
>fits pretty well
No one's saying different.
But there's nothing certain.
It's all fanwank.

>> No.12467942

>>12466914
After narrrowly escaping extinction on behalf of the Tyranids, the Squats figure out a way to steal control over individual 'nids, and thus have their children enslave the creatures to make their very own 'nid amy to use against their enemies.

TYRANIDS; GOTTA CATCH 'EM ALL!

>> No.12467959

>>12467912
100% approved.
Though the knowledge may be lost on the troll.

>> No.12467964

>>12467938

They're miners and engineers named craftsman who have the iconic Warhammer Dwarf hatred of Orcs, all supported by official material. I'm sorry to hear that you're too retarded to connected the dots yourself and need to be spoonfed the obvious by GW.

>> No.12468006

>>12467964
I'm not denying that's a conclusion that can be reached by all that's available.
I'm saying what's available isn't actually enough to say that as a definite conclusion.
We don't even have a description of the average member of the race, or an officially released picture.
So, yeah, from what we have, it could be so.
But what we have isn't enough to say it's certain.

How is this so hard to grasp?

>> No.12468041

God....old Tyranid Warriors look fucking scary.

>> No.12468069

>>12468006
>I'm saying what's available isn't actually enough to say that as a definite conclusion.

Actually, yeah, it is. Just like seeing the name "Orks" and finding out they're green is enough to deduce that, hey, they might actually be Orks.

It must be horrible to be unable to ever deduce anything and take everything at face value. I imagine if you ever managed to get a girlfriend she'd have an easy time cheating on you on the side without you ever being the wiser.

>> No.12468094

>>12468041

That's because they're going to hump you to death with that penetrating, thick tail protruding from between their legs, anon.

>> No.12468124

I'm not going to have any sympathy for /tg/ when they're this easily trolled.

>> No.12468144
File: 16 KB, 548x497, dwarf fortress shit just got real.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12468144

How about this:

The Demiurg were once a race the Imperium frequently traded and lived alongside... until the Horus Heresy. It was only until the Chief Demiurg saw the ruination and corrupting power of Chaos in full fling did they decide that *their* race would have no part of it.

So they put their greatest minds to work and during the chaos and bloodshed of the Horus Heresy, the Demiurg all but disappeared. Strange, considering their worlds were more or less isolated from the infighting of man.

...[fade to black]...

Basically, the Demiurg slipped into a Pocket Dimension with the best tech of their age (think STC as a *downgrade*) waiting for the mess of the Heresy to blow over. They occasionally pop back every now and then, but more or less are quite content in their own little technological paradise.

>What is this Pocket Dimension you speak of anon?
Well I'm glad you asked anon... You know how the Warp is IMMATERIAL, and the 40K universe is MATERIAL...? Well what if it wasn't. What if it was half and half (considering psykers and all). What if this pocket dimension is the MATERIAL universe and the absolute antithesis to the WARP.

>Heresy!
Yes. But it would make the SPESS DORFS concentrate solely on material wealth: knowledge, technology, fact, atheism, money, values, etc.

>> No.12468165

>>12468069
I'm sorry...?
It's a weakness to not take things at face value...?
But, a lie is conducted at face value.
Ergo, by being sceptical you are more likely to deduce the falsehood, as you do not accept the face value, you look deeper.

Goodness, your logic is flawed.
And still, nothing says with any certainty your spess dorfs are spess dorfs.
Oh yeah, we can see Orks is Orcs, we can see they're green.
Can we see a Demiurg is short?
No, no we cannot.
Have they been described as such?
Based on the fact no one has posted fluff to that end, I can safely assume, no, they are not.
Certainly, there are clues that suggeste dorfishness, but nothing that we can confidantly and definitively say, that it is so, and certain.

Perhaps, if you are so eager to believe the explanation with only a few supporting ideas, but no certainty of truth, it must be you who is more easily lied to...?

>> No.12468170
File: 278 KB, 946x1376, page 69.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12468170

>>12468094

speaking of tyranids and "penetrating", I'm just going to post this to make DLFG get wet in a troll thread.

>> No.12468171
File: 87 KB, 755x1255, lolitrollu.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12468171

>>12468124

>> No.12468180
File: 52 KB, 879x414, facehugger dickgun.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12468180

OH YEAH
SECOND EDITION
TRYING TO BE GIGER
OH YEAH

>pauly_d.jpg

>> No.12468197

>>12468144
Was Creed alive at the time ? Cause making a whole race, and a trader's race at that, disappear and be erased from History would take some sort of Tactical Geniu-

>> No.12468208

>>12468144
This would also give them a rivalry witht the Tyranids, as the Tyranids just looove munching away everything that could be turned into something useful - whether that be a flower or a gun or a cup of soup. It's all atoms, when you get down to it.

>> No.12468209

>>12468165

"Yeah, there's a used condom on the floor, and another guy's jacket on the door, so admittedly that could mean that my girlfriend slept with another guy. However, she hasn't told me anything about sleeping with another guy, so I can't just assume that."

Also, what's one of the Orc's defining characteristics? Being green. Are Orks green? Yes, so it's safe to say they are. What's one of the Dwarfs defining characteristics? Their intense hatred of Orcs. Do the Demiurg hate Orcs? Yeah? Then it's safe to say that, along with the numerous other aforementioned shared factors, that they are indeed Space Dwarfs, without the need for GW to confirm it, in the same way that they don't need to point out that Orks are Space Orcs, because they know anyone with a modicum of sense could figure it out without their direct involvement.

>> No.12468237

They're a stubborn group of miners, known for their wealth and technology. One of the only encounters with them on a planet involved a mountain fortress (Valhallan Fluff) where they fought on after knowing they'd lost to preserve their honour. They hate orks. They're mysterious, clannish and insular.
That's a lot to start drawing comparisons to WHFB dwarfs. Oh, and they gave a younger race some of the secrets of superior weapon making.
To be honest, I think they'd play more like sisters of battle than guard, but with less of the crazy. Short range heavy infantry that's stubborn as hell. Good quantity of special weaponry.

>> No.12468257

>>12468209
Indeed you can't assume that.
Her brother was staying over, so was his girlfriend.
They used your room, which isn't cool.

Whilst you were busy beating your wombwhore like the lovable fatguy you are, the truth is revealed as the two walk back through the door.

See, I can craft a fiction to support a hypothesis as well.

As for this whole Demiurg thing, why's it so har dfor you to just accept you may be wrong?
I've already said, and repeatedly, they COULD be spess dorfs, I just say there's not enough evidence to say for certain.
You seem to have this absurd need to prove they are.
I find it frankly baffling.

>> No.12468262

Dorfs in space....

What about a short and stocky alien race made of living rock and metal? They mine because, you know, they EAT minerals and metals. Also, their favorite drink is a strong beverage made of magma.... some sort of "magma-beer" or "magma-ale".

This artificial race was created by the Necrontyr in order to fight against the eldar and the orks. (You know... Dwarves... they hate orcs and despise elves). But the Necrons have been sleeping for millennia, so, nowadays the space dorfs have freed themselves from the dominance of the necrons and are an independent race. Also, necron living metal is considered as a delicious delicacy in their culture, so, they eat Necrons whenever they can.

This race completely despise any other race made of flesh. Humans, eldar, orks and tau are nothing but weak and soft fleshbags. Because of this, they are an isolationist and clannish race, very proud of their culture and wary of strangers. They don't consider flesh creatures to be "living" creatures, so they kill and destroy humans, orks, eldar and tau without any remorse (because, you know, GRIMMDARK).

>> No.12468267

I like the idea of Demiurg being space dwarves.

>> No.12468313

>>12468257

I think we diverge on one point : you seem to think that we can't say they are dwarfs because they may not look like dwarfs. Which is true. Maybe they don't look like it at all. For all we know, even if we consider the only pic we have as canon, the may be something entirely different under their voidsuits.

However, psychologically, they are about as dwarven as they could be. They are even more like dwarves than Squat ever were. Mining, brotherhood, massive ships, hate Orks, and the trading part, which wasn't present in Squats, but is pretty big for fantasy!Dwarves. So we could accurately say that, even if they are not 100% alike, if they receive more fluff one day, they will fill the now-vacant role of Space Dwarves, as they are they closest thing we have to dwarves in space.

>> No.12468338

>>12467467

>Tyranids

Tyranids were based on Chtorr, not the other way around, fucktard.

ftfy

>> No.12468380

>>12468313
I think we may at last have consensus.
We are not certain that these are Spess Dorfs.
We do both agree however aspects of their behaviours draw parallels.
However, as I have always said, and it now seems you concur, we need more fluff for them to cement this idea from "strong possibility" to certainty.
And first and foremost in that would be the need for official art. Officially released, and as you say, outside of their voidsuit.

Remeber when people all used to say Hrud were Spess Skaven?
This Anon remembers.
They wuz wrong.

>> No.12468539

They could be PROFIT-based army in fluff
Basically, since they all live in space ships and have better then Imp tech base (but maybe not Eldar good), they'd need a LOT of resources (mimicking dwarven greed), and they'd find planets with resources they want and "claim" them.
Meanwhile, somebody's already on that world or mining it, and they say "fuck you we saw it first".
Emphasize their greed and need for resources, and make them sort of like Mafia merchants: they trade with you, but fuck all if they decide you screw them over, they LITERALLY go to war with your shit to "get what you owe them".

>> No.12468606

>>12468539
Kind of like industry gone mad: obsessed with ownership and deals and "fair bargains", especially those that favor them, and totally heedless of the massive damage their resources scavenging does.
They'd strip-mine whole WORLDS, faster then the Imperium can do it (though not the life on them, that's the area of the Tyranids expertise, and the Demiurg wouldn't need that stuff), and not give a shit if the inhabitants end up poor and living on a planet with nothing of value: it was THEIRS FIRST, so they claimed it and screw anyone who says otherwise

>> No.12468636

I like the ideas in this thread. It could be viable to start doing this. We need to think of a good, overall racial fluff, however.

For example, why do these merchants hate Orks so much? Do they inherently drain the value of a planet they decide to mine? Do they just make it impossible to trade in regions they inhabit? Is it just a racial prejudice?

>> No.12468637

>>12468606
See, this is why the only retard that writes for GW is Ward, and he's only there cause of diversity in the workplace bullshit...

You are retarded.

No space faring race needs to mine PLANETS for mineral resources when there are a bazillion and infinity one asteroids out there, equally if not more rich in minerals, that also have the benefit of not having populations with guns on them.

>> No.12468648

>>12468636Is it just a racial prejudice?

the dwarves made fun of them

and they stayed mad

>> No.12468885

How has this thread not disappeared yet?

>> No.12468895

>>12468637
No spacefaring race prays to it's guns when the jam either. The entire setting is nonsensical and mad, and if you're rational you realize it easily.
The laws of physics themselves are incredibly suspect in the 40k universe, for good reason: it's cool.
Your comments are quite intelligent, I'm going to assume you are rational.
>>12468636
Orks massively decrease the safety of space they own, since they dangerously reproduce to incredible levels VERY quickly and then built their crude but annoyingly effective space ships, ruining any and all space lanes for trading and making mining difficult or impossible.
Now make this problem go on for eons, with the Demiurg killing Orks and Orks killing Demiurg over and over.
The Demiurg, big on brotherhood within their ship-clans and race and "fair deals", would take this long-running war VERY personally (it's how it happened in Fantasy, dwarves and orcs of Warhammer only being ancient enemies because the orks kept killing dwarves), but the Orks of course just look at them as a good fun fight, because they travel everywhere and are hard to kill and seem to pick fights whenever Orks arrive in the same system, so they keep fighting back and keeping them angry at 'em, sort of like a sociopathic child who beats up one kid over and over, because that one kid keeps fighting back and he's more interested in the fight.

>> No.12468924

>>12468885
Because some people are interested?
That seems to be the logical reason for it.
Usually is.

>> No.12468960

>>12468924
But it's about SQUATS.

>> No.12468964

>>12468895
Just because the setting is nonsensical and mad, filled with Demons made from bad dreams, blue space hippies, and cosmic zombie lighthouses, that doesn't mean we should derp out.

Space faring miners would mine asteroids.

I like the idea of them staying out of the way, mining an asteroid...
SUDDENLY ORK ROKKS!!!
"LOL DA BOYZ CRASH INTA STUNTEEZ!!! LOL!!! BAI, WE GO WAAAAGH NAO!!!"
"GRRRRRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUUUU...." (dge)

>> No.12468997

>>12468262

Like the Tau, these space dwarves have no warp signature, so, they don't have psikers (dwarves have always been completely non-magical). They don't even believe in the existence of the warp or daemons and their FTL travel technology is very similar to the one used by the necrons, but much slower and not as precise.

As they eat minerals and metals, they mine entire planets in the same way in which Tyranids defile them of life. This, combined with their tendency to not consider flesh creatures as "living", make them terrifying and amoral invaders. Creatures made of rock and metal, they don't need to breathe and can survive without any problem in the vacuum of space.

As dwarves, they are great forgers and builders, but they are completely incapable of creating new technology. They simply replicate the technologies that the necrontyr gave them thousands of years ago. Creating new technology is considered as an insult towards their ancestors and the crafting traditions of the clan. Their machines are resilient and stocky, but somewhat slow and cumbersome when confronted with situations for which they were not designed.

>> No.12469015

Battle Drill Choo Choo Trains please

>> No.12469016

>>12468964
The whole setting is derped out, and GW never had an original thought in their heads, and most of us don't care that much, because it's nifty shit.
I don't think they've come up with anything original since 1987, when they created the setting out of a mishmash of stuff they already used.
It's cool though.
And yes, that's pretty much how I figure it. The Demiurg would GRUDGE all the time, and the Orks would be fucking around because they like the fight.

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