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[ERROR] No.11699682 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Which is better for a new player, Witch Hunters or Daemonhunters?

>> No.11699694

bump for intrest

>> No.11699717

Daemonhunters. Buy Grey Knights.

>> No.11699722

>>11699682
Neither are good.
Play Necrons

>> No.11699731

Neither. Both are terrible for new players. Expensive, old models and crazy outdated codexes.

>> No.11699734

Ultramarines.

They're the best army.

>> No.11699768

>>11699682
Lawful Evil answer: Witch hunters.
Neutral Good answer: Right now you shouldn't pick either of those for beginners army. They are being redone, curent codices are old, and miniatures are all-metal, making them fuckton expensive.

>> No.11699792

So what would you guys think would be better for beginners, because I was thinking of either Tau or IG

>> No.11699809

>>11699792
Make a refluffed army that is IG integrated into a Tau battalion, and paint them bright pink.

Then you should come up with a clever name for them, because I'm spent.

>> No.11699822

>>11699734
Greg Knights can trounce Ultras fairly easily.

Space Wolves are a good force.

Necron suck because of their updated gauss rules and lack of variety for what they can field(pretty much warriors, warriors, and more warriors)

Tau and Witch Hunters sucks because they were kinda jokes to begin with.

Deamonhunters aren't great because of the outdated rules(assault cannons in their codex are heavy 3's, not heavy 4 rending like everyone else).

Dark Eldar are really outdated(think 3rd edition outdated)

>> No.11699827

At the moment Witch Hunters are by far a better army for a beginner. Grey knights require a total rethinking of currently accepted strategies along with the fact they are the lowest model size armies around for their points cost.

You'll often be outnumbered by 3-5 to every knight for GK's. However the codex is being redone and is apparently coming out this January.

Until then Witch Hunters are by far more new player friendly.

>> No.11699850

>>11699792

>> No.11699854

I wouldn't get either. I suggest you FUCKING WAIT.

Also if you decide for GK, try this. It'll save you a bundle.

>> No.11699871

ORKS IS DA ONLY GUD ARMY

>> No.11699884

>>11699792
Honestly, Imperial Guard. They're popular and will have a new codex every edition. Tau are harder to learn, use, and find good paint schemes & fluff for.

>> No.11699891

>>11699827
Coolest Grandmaster ever

>> No.11699899

Pick an army depending on how well you know how to play and how well you know the strengths and weaknesses of other armies and units.

The following tier-list isn't a reflection on how good, bad, cheap, easy or hard to play of the army, mainly a reflection on what kind of player they are suited to due to playstyle, Codex age and model quality/range.

Beginner Tier: Space Marines (including Space Yiffs and Twilight Mareenz), Orks, Imperial Guard

Mid Tier: Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Daemons, Tyranids, Tau, Eldar

Pro Tier: Witch Hunters, Daemonhunters, Necrons, Dark Eldar

I'd heartily encourage newcomers to the hobby to go Mid Tier if they feel like it, as there are too many players who go for the Beginner armies and the Mid Tier armies provide a far greater reward in sheer enjoyment.

>> No.11699910

>>11699792
Easier = IG since they already have a 5th edition codex which can be badass.

Tau were great in 4th but they haven't been updated for 5th yet.

However which army do i think is more satisfying?
Blue skinned robot pilots all the god damn way :)

>> No.11699942

>>11699854
Best you could use that for would be heavy weapons units. Grey Knights use storm bolters and nemesis force weapons otherwise.

The stormtroopers aren't bad come to think of it. I use them as hank hunter squads.

>> No.11699947

>>11699899
>Orks
>Beginner tier

Not if you plan on actually beating somebody

Orks are mid tier

Maybe Even hard tier with the amount of Marine players

>> No.11699948

>>11699942
>hank hunter squads

>> No.11699954

Xenoshunters

>> No.11699974

>>11699948
>Hank hunters

>> No.11699975

>>11699947
Say hello to a themed list.

I have yet to try it but from what I understand people don't like the idea of facing it so far. Working on my first custom battlewagon soon, gotta hit the store for glue.

>> No.11699983

>>11699954
Cool. Deathwatch minis.

>> No.11699986

>>11699899
Also Chaos Daemons are far far easier than eldar, Nids, and Orks

>> No.11699992

>>11699884 They're popular and will have a new codex every edition

You say this knowing they skipped a whole edition?

>> No.11699997

>>11699986
>far easier if you run with lots of the typical stuff like blood crushers
ftfy

>> No.11699998

>>11699992
Yeah.

>> No.11700006

>>11699947
I didn't get what you meant there? Are you saying Orks are mid-to-hard to play if you plan on beating someone? Because that isn't true at all, Orks are honestly a very relaxed force to play as long as you understand what Orks can and can't do, and how to structure your army. If you're having trouble beating other armies with Orks, you're doing it wrong.

I also took into account that Orks have a fantastic, beginner-friendly range of models and their Codex was written with 5th in mind. There were a few things in 5th that hurt the Ork 4th Codex but they were mostly minor (the worst thing in the Codex is the Don't Press Dat rule, and Looted Wagons aren't a central unit anyway).

>> No.11700008

>>11699827
DAT TANK!
I think I just probably came a little...

>> No.11700021

>>11699947

Haha irks are easy as shit to play. Lootas, nob bikers and flavor to choice and you'll probably win if you're decent

>> No.11700022

>>11699975
Ah, the Deffwing. It is indeed one of the toughest lists out there.

However, not many people are willing to paint 8 Battlewagons.

>> No.11700024

>>11700008
http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/kb.php?mode=article&k=175

>> No.11700026

>>11700006
>If you're having trouble beating other armies with Orks, you're doing it wrong.
>If you're having trouble beating other armies with Necrons, you're doing it wrong.
>If you're having trouble beating other armies with Dark Eldar, you're doing it wrong.
>If you're having trouble beating other armies with Daemonhunters, you're doing it wrong.
>If you're having trouble beating other armies with Squats, you're doing it wrong.
etc

>> No.11700035

>>11700022
I'm building them all from scratch and using 5+ year old models I'm tired of looking at that have been outdated.

>> No.11700054

>>11699986
Daemons have just got an awesome new mini release, which is why I was tempted to put them in Beginner, however, I've heard beginners get tabled playing with Daemons because they have no idea how to play them. Daemons are one of the best armies at the moment but they do require at least a working knowledge of the game. At least with MAREENZ, Guard or Orks you can give a match without knowing a lot about the game.

>> No.11700066

>>11700006
I'll never say orks are "hard" to play but i feel you're required at least a minor amount of effort in order to break through the useuall generic Ultramarine gunline set up

But yeah orks certainly have some of the best models out there, and a beginner should'nt have too much trouble building up a nice looking force

>> No.11700076

>>11699975
That list will be raped by anything with fast moving or deep striking expendable melta units.

Utterly. Raped.

>>11699986
wut?

The lolrandumb part of the army is a pain in the ass. You either ignore it and hope to get lucky on the 3+ or you make identical waves and ignore it that way. If a rule is there to be ignored it is probably a bad rule. /rant

Anyway Daemons aren't that good. Too random.

>> No.11700095

>>11700026
Strawman. Orks are a very competitive army and are fairly easy to play with. Armies like Eldar and Dark Eldar require experience and knowledge in order to get convincing victories due to the complex range of unit choices and the specialised nature of their units. Orks is largely a case of model-count and 'dakka da choppa' and 'choppa da dakka'.

>> No.11700102

>>11700076
Best thing against drop pod lists are being in reserves right?

>> No.11700126

>>11700102
Yup.

>> No.11700137

>>11700126
>Tank shock with deff rollas
You forget that I'm >>11699975

>> No.11700143

>>11700076
From what i gathered from fighting daemons you only need to bank on the Deep striking roll, if you get at least most of your army popping up you're sorted for the whole game

Mishaps can be avoided by taking less risky strikes, and i believe some units can be summoned within 6 of a chaos icon without too much fear of failure

All the daemons basic units seemed to be fully woth the pts cost with brilliant stats in thier own field (Plaguethings never die, Demonettes always go first, etc)

Same with all the monsters, and you get alot of them

>> No.11700144

>>11700076
>fast moving or deep striking expendable melta units
And how many of those can any army field in either great numbers and at low-point cost? Not many, and those that can will never have more than 3 in any list, and if they do they are probably lacking somewhere.

Also, deep-striking relies on you getting your Reserves roll early. Enjoy getting tabled by turn 3 if you haven't had your reserves in by then.

The only lists that can reliably beat this army are those that are tailored specifically to do so, which defeats the point of the list because a list that is tailored to counter a specific army is almost always terrible against other lists. On the other hand, the Deffwing is reliably destructive against nearly every general list.

>> No.11700155

>>11700137
No, I didn't forget. It's just silly that you play Orks and not Tau.

>> No.11700173

>>11700143
The biggest complaint I hear with beginners is that they never take enough marks, which is stupid.

Whether CD or CSM, at least half of units should be carrying Marks if you're relying on deep-striking Daemons, more if possible. 1 or 2 is never enough.

>> No.11700177

>>11700143
>The only lists that can reliably beat this army are those that are tailored specifically to do so,

You're implying that Orks have the best take-all-comers lists. This is equivalent of saying that Orks are the best codex.

>> No.11700189

>>11700155
I like being endlessly numerous instead of confined to:
>I am small in number but I count in this war too!

I prefer nurgle chaos (the only one with solid recruitment apparently) orks and nids. The rest of my forces are going to the scalpel to be chopped up for bits. Got tired of waiting for dark eldar, SoB and eldar codicies.

>> No.11700190

>>11700177
quoted wrong, shoulda been >>11700144

>> No.11700246

>>11700177
Not really, other armies have other 'tabled by turn 3' lists such as the Leafblower list for Guard. That's not to say they have the best Codexes. IMHO, the best Codex is the one where every unit can be competitive enough to make it into a tournament army. The Ork Codex is not this, as Looted Wagons, Flash Gitz, Deff Dreddz, Stormboyz and Warbuggies are often eschewed in favour of far more competitive units.

Most Codexes have the potential to create a decent tournament list. I say the Deffwing is 'Ard, but it isn't impossible to beat. I'm talking about reliably beating it, as in winning 9 out of 10 games against it, which would be hard to do without using, as someone suggested, a dedicated list with fast or deep-striking meltas in it. Dedicated lists are not tournament-winning lists.

>> No.11700304

>>11700246
As an eldar player would disagree; it's all about unit synergy with the rest of the army.

Almost very ork in the math can beat up a basic 16 point marine on the charge. Check.
Almost every gun in the ork codex is worth its points. Check.
Can a list be optimized with loads of guns capable of giving a guard army trouble? Yes! Check.

(If you say no, try facing 60 shootas in range in red trukks on turn 1 moving 7" and firing 120+ shots at you, all under 500 points and wait to see whats in the next 1500 points!)

Orks have the means.

>> No.11700369

>>11700304

Ork guns are actually terribly, terribly bad against mech. S4 shooting is terribad, Rokkits have short range and half the accuracy of a marine krak missile, Orks have no Meltas, Railguns or Lascannons, Lootas compete with Nobs, cannot take a Wagon, each troop nob means one less KFF...

Also nothing beats IG in scaling with points.

>> No.11700373

>>11700304
There's a difference between unit synergy and having decent core units. No decent Ork army lacks Boyz, no decent Space Marine army lacks Space Marines, no decent et cetera.

The difference is the wealth of unit choice outside of the core.

>> No.11700464

>>11700373
>Battlewagons
Transports, second turn mob charging, tank krusher with a wrecking ball that kills a second vehicle.. Not to mention the shooty parts, and being a bunker with 4+ saves from a KFF. (KFF says it grants vehicles obscure saves, the 5+ save is also added, in the rulebook basic obscure saves granted by wargear is automatically 4+ unless specified otherwise, and it's not specified)

Lets see. Basic trukks, harder to kill the orks. Second turn chargers, so on.

Kommadoes for +4 points you get outflank.
Stormboyz first turn chargers on things within 24".
First turn chargers with red trukks/wagons moving 13", disembark 2"+1"base touching the disembark distance(3" total from the vehicle), first turn waagh using two warp'eads to try and get it (58% chance total).

I only just started, want me to continue?

>> No.11700706

>>11700464

>first turn Waaagh

Get the fuck out.

>> No.11700721

Witch Hunters. Demon Hunters are hard and weird. Also any DH army you start now may be fucked by the new book in six months.

>> No.11700733

>>11700464
Listen, I've been playing Orks for over 4 years so don't start listening off what units can do what, you've completely missed the point I was making. Orks are a good army, all I was saying is that just because they have an awesome list (like the Deffwing) doesn't mean they have the best Codex.

>> No.11700735

>>11700706
>warpeads power #6
>can get it first turn
>also says in the erratta

>No U!
>and other comebacks go here

>> No.11700749

>>11700733
You're confusing me with the guy that barked off about best codexes. I'm not that guy.

>people should namefag
....

>> No.11700811

>>11700706
I believe that with Warphead, he technically can do that.
I'd still rather rely on normal 2nd turn charge with Warboss + KFF Mek in HQ slots.

>> No.11700863

>>11700811
Well that's what I've been doing with my speed freek list of 72 orks in trukks, nob+klaws, etc...

>> No.11701030

>>11699975
Blood angels would violate this list

>> No.11701047

>>11701030
They would have to don their daddy rape masks too.

Because the boyz are comin' for ya.

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