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11585475 No.11585475 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Swarm Guard
10 Guardsmen with a Sergeant having meltabombs.

I want to test an army based around this concept. Anything they can't hurt will have a hell of a time making its points back or get bogged down in the high number of units. 37 meltabombs in 2000 points.

To do or not to do is the question.

>> No.11585497

You won't be able to hurt most armoured walkers or wraithlords or talos.

>> No.11585498

>>11585475
How do you intend on dealing with skimmers? You'll never catch them with the Meltabombs. Technically you may be able to win 2/3 games simply by swarming objectives, but that doesn't sound particularly fun. Also are you really going to paint 370 Guardsmen for what is, essentially, a gimmick army?

>> No.11585540

>>11585497
Most of them can't kill 20 guardsmen that quickly or can't remove the 3rd squad before the game ends.

>>11585498
It'll be hard for skimmers to find places to run when guardsmen can move and assault 6". It would have to be like a ten foot by four foot table for him to get around me. Star engines to get far enough to stay out of assault. I'm not bothered about painting hundreds of models. I've already painted hundreds of models in other armies already.

>> No.11585541

I've been thinking of doing something similar, but with meltaguns instead of meltabombs.

>> No.11585550

>>11585498
>Also are you really going to paint 370 Guardsmen for what is, essentially, a gimmick army?

Who says he has to paint them?

>> No.11585561

Introduction to tank shock while avoiding the sergeants.

Good luck passing your Ld7 or being escorted off the board.

>> No.11585563

>>11585541
Meltaguns work. You lose 3 lasguns and two bodies per meltagun. (replace a lasgun, costs 2 guardsmens worth)

>> No.11585577

>>11585561
>ld8
ftfy

If you tank shocked someone, they can assault you. Unless it's the very edge of a unit spread 2" from each model in a straight line and the sergeant is on the far side. Then he'll just be a few inches out of range. Otherwise he's going to assault.

>9 frag grenades + 1 meltabomb rolling 6's to hit, 1.3 will hit per squad and better hope you got extra armor on that thing

>> No.11585595

I've done something like this (Added priests and Straken), albeit on a smaller scale (1000 points)

Won against Orks while charging whenever I had a chance.

>> No.11585602

>>11585577
you can assault next turn yes

unless the sergeant is in the path of the initial tank shock, he can't use his meltabombs for Death or Glory purposes.

and if he breaks unit coherency in the process, enjoy your next turn wasted.

>> No.11585654

>>11585602
Not wasted if you're in range of my weapons.

The math behind it shows I can get over 50 guardsmen on a single chimera. 60 grenades, if you only get 'destroyed' on the final result will make sure you're stunned at least 5 times. Making my grenades hit automatically.

>> No.11585700

>>11585654
Except you try getting 50 guardsmen in b2b with a Chimera.

The same reasoning is why simple Slugga Mobs aren't the end-all-be-all of anti-infantry melee units.

You can't get them all in range. And frag grenades, even against AV10 suffer -2 to the VDC.

Secondly, splitting 10 models down the middle with a vehicle can often be done where they cannot move back into coherency next turn and are thus rendered useless for a turn. Remember you cannot move within 1" of an enemy model at any point.

>> No.11585725

>>11585700
>Ranged weapon rules accounted for melee
You got your rules wrong. All AP rules specifically state it's for ranged weapons. Hence the word "Shoot/shooting/shot".

Only -1 for being glancing.

>> No.11585754
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11585754

>>11585725
The fuck you smoking?

>> No.11585772

>>11585577
you realize that those 1.3 hits (assuming you are correct) will require a 6 to even glance a normal RAV10 tank unless you are VERY lucky and land the meltabomb.

>> No.11585831

>>11585754
>VDC
Ahaa~.

Try page 61: "AP- Weapons"
Grenades have no AP chart, or weapon characteristics. You refer to "Vehicles and assaults" instead for grenades. AP value is not applied in assault because it is an entirely different section of rules.

Learn40k dude.

>> No.11585878

Why not just use meltaguns instead

>> No.11585886

>>11585831

Just out of curiosity, how would you handle a gun that shot a grenade with stats of S( properties of grenade) AP - ?

>is flumpr

>> No.11585892
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11585892

>>11585831
It's not about the AP dipshit. Since when did I bring in AP, AP- or the like?

S4+D6 (frags) vs RAV10 can only EVER glance.

And what does a glance do? (Hint: Look at the red box)

>> No.11585920

>>11585725
>>11585831
An AP- weapon that glanced a tank's rear armor would suffer -3 to the VDC.

-2 for being a glancing hit, and -1 for being AP-.

You seem to be under the impression that a glancing hit is -1 to the damage chart. It is in fact, -2.

>> No.11585923

>>11585886
Grenades (and all melee attacks) are not applied to the AP rules of any kind! AP rules are only applied to things that have an AP rule! (Not a AP value, the AP rule itself)

A melee attack has no AP rule. I say armor penetration as in- either it ignores armor saves or the target gets an armor save. Not killing a vehicle "Armour penetration", which is a major confusing factor to people who read the rules and cross reference two same-named rules that have no rules dictating each other.

Melee attacks have no weapon-characteristic of AP rules. Either the target gets a save (2+/3+/4+/5+/6) save, or it is ignored. No way applies to vehicles because the 'power weapon' rules as it's referred to ignores toughness-only models saves.

>> No.11585928

>>11585886
A gun shooting a grenade is not a melee attack. That said, if the grenade's primary purpose is as a CC grenade (frag or krak) it would not be assigned an AP value to begin with.

>> No.11585936

>>11585920
>>11585892
I think he meant anything that stuns or immobilizes the vehicle will let any further attacks hit automatically.

>> No.11585947
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11585947

>>11585923

Perhaps I should clarify. How would you deal with this weapon? Would you apply the AP to the grenade? I am genuinely curious.

>their jectious

>> No.11585979

>>11585947

buh...wha?

>> No.11585992

>>11585936
Which is irrelevant.

Me: Frag Grenades are pretty much impossible to destroy a vehicle, so good luck with that.*
Him: AP- doesn't apply to melee, you are wrong.
Me: [PICTURE] Uh, -2 to VDC for a glance.
Him: I told you AP- doesn't apply to melee! Hurrdurr l2p
Me: [REVISED PICTURE] Glances suffer -2 to VDC. Here, now boxed in red for the extra-stupid.


*I should point out that since all attacks hit simultaneously, and even if you stun the vehicle on your first frag grenade dice roll, you can't autohit the meltabomb that turn.

>> No.11586018

>>11585947
No.

If the shot hits, roll. This isn't a roll to determine glance or pen in the traditional sense and is thus unaffected by AP-.

>> No.11586118

Look, for the AP rules, it is simple. If it is not mentioned or even in the 40k errata, than it has no effect for the unit/s in questions.

Only shooting weapons or ranged weapons have AP characteristics. CC weapon does not, so the AP rule does not apply. Just rol on the VDC accordingly.

All CC, or melee weapons have no AP characteristics unless it is mentioned in the codex.

Remember, when it comes to tank shock, only unit from the squad is allowed for death and glory. ONLY ONE and it AUTO HITS. So, you can shoot ONLY ONCE or TOSS A GRENADE as stated in the Death and Glory Section of the 40k rulebook.

Remember, glancing has a -2 modifier on the VDC. If shooting weapon has an AP- value, than it is -3. In CC, there is no AP value for CC weapons because it is not stated.Easy as that.

Don't make rules up just because it is not there. If it is not mentioned, than it has no effect. Learn to read the fine print of rule books.

>> No.11586145

>>11586118

Sorry, Only grenades AUTOHIT, you have to roll for shooting.

>> No.11587095

>>11586145
No, all attacks made vs Death or Glory autohit, unless that was in reference to something else. Ranged weapons, grenades, melee weapons all autohit.

>>11586118
Who are you talking to anyways?

>> No.11587202

Conscripts only, one cheap HP unit, Final Destination.
After the forty-third roll to hit, they tend to give up.

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