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[ERROR] No.11534692 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

What exactly is a power klaw capable of?

It would seem an ork of decent size could cut open tanks with one.

>> No.11534710

Well, yeah. In the tabletop, a nob with a power klaw is str 8. That means he damages a gaurd tank on a 2+ and shreads it on a 3 or more. With each attack. So yes, they can cut open tanks. It's kinda what they are for.

>> No.11534726

I've seen Thraka take down a stompa by him self. I've had a warboss kill off a Landraider. My Doomnobs often clean the board.

IE. FUCK YEA ORKS

>> No.11534760

DA POWER KLAW IS DA BEST WEAPON A BOY CAN HAVE.

YOU WANT TO CRUMP TANKS? YOU CAN DO DAT WITH DA KLAW.

YOU WANT TO CHOP UP SUM 'UMIES? YOU CAN DO DAT WITH DA KLAW.

YOU WANT TO SCRATCH YER BACK? YOU CAN DO DAT WITH DA KLAW.

>> No.11534762

They're basically rescue shears, aka Jaws of Life. Usually they're pneumatic shears, early models were shaped like crab pincers. The new models use the three bladed hand type.

>> No.11534778

>>11534762
Do they cut as slowly as those? It would be pretty agonizing to be cut in half with that pace.

>> No.11534788

Look at the size of those claws, they could rip a tank apart.

>> No.11534799

>>11534788

>> No.11534814

>>11534778
My guess is that they're fast enough to shear a space marine in half in melee range without worring too much about the marine killing the nob while waiting for the klaw to cut though.

>> No.11534815

>>11534778


Like Scissors through Paper actually.

>> No.11534819

WAAAAAAAAAAGH

>> No.11534821

>>11534760
UH, BOSS....

WAT ABOUT DA DEFF GUN?

>> No.11534832

>>11534778
the story behind them is that they move a lot faster. Seeing how the Jaws of life move so slow because they're trying to pry apart the material in a safe manner, protecting evidence and survivors.

>> No.11534853

Klaws rip shit open like can openers.

Captcha related: The Choppered

>> No.11534857

>>11534821
Deffguns are pretty dakka, but power klaws are the pinnacle of choppy.

>> No.11534871

Is it worth taking a huge choppa so he can strike at initiative, or should klaw be default for the boss?

>> No.11534878

>>11534857
What is the pinnacle of dakka?

>> No.11534879

Don't they also have a power field?

>> No.11534891

>>11534871

Klaw. It's one of a short list of anti-armor tools in the Ork toolbox. Everybody that can have a klaw, does. Every time.

>> No.11534892

>>11534879
Yeah, same as any other power weapon

>> No.11534893

A little of the ol' 'chop-chop'!

>> No.11534894

How can orks even make machines like that?

>> No.11534906

>>11534878

Ya know dem gunz we 'ave on Roks? Thassa start.

>> No.11534910

>>11534894
Ork shit works because they think it will, end of story

>> No.11534920

>>11534894
It's genetically encoded into their genes that certain boyz grow with the knowledge of building machines due to the Old Ones engineering them to combat the Necron forces.

>> No.11534926

>>11534910
That's some of the stupidest shit I've ever heard.

>> No.11534929

>>11534878
Dere is no pinnakle to dakka. Yous can neva' have enuff dakka.

>> No.11534932

>>11534910

Because they KNOW it will work.

>> No.11534933

It's a really really big can opener

>> No.11534942

>>11534926
You don't know much about orks, do you?

Did you know that they think stuff painted red moves faster, and it does because they think so?

>> No.11534953

>>11534929

Actually, you can. But that is at the point when you have so much dakka, the universe doesn't have enough space left to give you something to shoot at, and then you have too much dakka. Thus, enuff dakka is impossible.

>> No.11534958

>>11534942
What was blue for again? Sneaky? Invulnerable?

>> No.11534960

Jaws of life. With a power field. Lightsaber jaws of life that cut throught matter like butter.

That's just powerful.

>> No.11534962

>>11534932

Exactly. Meks create the more exotic weapons and give them to other Orks. Orks know that the stuff that they get from Meks works, and is usually ded killy. As a result, it works.

The whole of Ork society is powered by the psyker gestalt that the Orks themselves create.

>> No.11534974

>>11534958
Blue is for luck/superstition, most orks have blue somewhere on them from what I understand.

>> No.11534976

>>11534958

Lucky.
Also, my dice are blue.

>> No.11534977

>>11534920
Functional knowledge of that level being passed down genetically is one thing. Actually producing a working good is another.

>>11534942
What else can they think out of thin air?
"Oh, I think this piece of metal will make me fly"
"Oh, I think this piece of metal will penetrate a void shield and kill the emperor class titan"
"Oh, I think that I am invincible"

>> No.11534992

>>11534926
All Orks have latent Psyker abilities that basically let them do this that otherwise shouldn't work.

Guns that should explode, shoot. Vehicles painted red, go faster (This is actually a rule).

Most people think that ithey just throw a heap of bolts together and it shoots, but not true. Ork machines and guns need to mechanically work, but their psychic abilities push it a little harder so they don't blow up in their face, which still happens and Mek Boyz are known to sabotage for their own amusement, especially to the Storm Boyz jump packs.

>> No.11534995

>>11534977
If enough orks believed these things, they would be possible. Fortunately for the rest of the galaxy, Orks have only come to such general agreement on very few things.

>> No.11535002

>>11534977

There needs to be quite a lot of orks thinking stuff for it to work.
Thus, only the standing beliefs work, not specific ones.

The colours have properties, the tek works, the important orks are bigger, and that sort of thing.


There is also a popular theory about the same thing working with humans, and that is why the 'emperor' gives miracles.
Hell, if the Imperium collectively would start to believe that the Emperor's body is healing, it probably would. I mean, doesn't rowboat heal inside that stasis field?

>> No.11535029

Yellow and gold is a sign of wealth and prosperity, Black and White checkers represent Gork and Mork, differing options will state which color is Mork and Gork.

>> No.11535034

>>11535002
So if they had a huge clan of orks that dedicated themselves to really, truly believing that they were invincible, would they not then become invincible?

>> No.11535035

>>11534977

Individual Orks bend the rules a tiny bit. If you had a WAAAGH! at your disposal, and they all believed it, you could probably pull off all of the above. So yes, that ramshackle cylinder full of volatile explosives makes you fly (instead of blowing you the fuck up), because you believe it, and so did the guy that made it, and so do the other boyz around you. And yes, that hunk of steel with a battery glued on is now a power klaw, because a Mek said it was, and because you believe it is, and so do other Orks. And yes, the Warboss is nigh-invincible, because EVERYBODY thinks he is.

Now, prove he's NOT, and suddenly, that energy is dissipated.

>> No.11535036

>>11535029

Isn't yellow Blastier, and black Tuffer?

>> No.11535049

>>11535034
because its a stupid theory that can never truly be explained and only individually interpreted by the 40kfans

>> No.11535051

>>11535034
Most likely they would. Such agreement amongst orks is extremely rare, however.

"I think I's invinshibul. Try killin' me, git."
*Chop*
" 'e wasn't dat invinshibul after all"

>> No.11535053

>>11535034

Eh. All Orks believe that. As a result, they are unimaginably resilient.

>> No.11535059

>>11534692
That’s it. I’m sick of all this “Powersword/Chainsword” bullshit that’s going on in the 40k system right now. Power Klaws deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.

I should know what I’m talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine Power Klaw from a Mekboy for 60 teef (that’s about $100, depending on your dentist) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my Power Klaw.

Mekboys spend days working on a single Power Klaw and fold it up to a million times to produce the finest klaws known to Orks.

Power Klaws are thrice as sharp as Chainswords and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a chainsword can cut through, a Power Klaw can cut through better. I’m pretty sure a Power Klaw could easily cut open a tank with a simple vertical slash.

Ever wonder why the Imperium of Man never bothered conquering Ork territories? That’s right, they were too scared to fight the batfuck crazy Orks and their Power Klaws of destruction. Even in the grim darkness of the 41st century, Imperial Soldiers target the orks with the Power Klaws first because their killing power was feared and respected.

So what am I saying? Power Klaws are simply the best claw that the universe has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the 40k system.

>> No.11535061

>>11535034
No, Those who do die by an Ork who thinks he is more invincible than the other. It is the very nature of an ork to fight and die, and they do not fear death.

>> No.11535062

>>11535035
So couldn't several WAAGHS! simply think
"We're invincible against our enemies, and can fly using nothing but the power of our minds" and make this so?
or "We believe each of us has almost limitless psychic powers" thus giving them the capability to be the most powerful (retarded) force in the galaxy?

Unbelievably stupid.

>> No.11535066

>>11535053

I base this on "Orkz is neva beaten in battle!"

>> No.11535087

>>11535053
No, not unbelievably resilient - Invincible.
They think "Red makes this go faster" and it goes faster.
They think "We are invincible against our foes" and they are invincible against their goes.Not just incredibly resilient.

>> No.11535088

>>11535062
Boyz are just not that powerful even if they could organize. Weirdboys are, but their abilites are so random that they're as likely to kill themselves and about half their troops as they are the enemy.

>> No.11535090

>>11535062
Possibly, but Orkz don't know about this field they have.

>> No.11535092

>>11535062
The deciding factor here is doubt. The orks need to sincerely, without a shred of doubt in their hearts, believe that they cannot be harmed for it to work.

Now, how firmly would you believe such a thing when a landraider is closing in?

>> No.11535095

>>11535062
Orks are unbelievably stupid, therefore they wouldn't ever think "OI WE IS DA BEST AND CAN FLY" and if one did, it would be hard to convince the rest of this.

>> No.11535107

>>11535087

Faster isn't an absolute, invincible is.
They are closer to invincible than if they didn't believe it. But let's face it, each of them aren't tzeench-level psykers working in unison.

>> No.11535116

>>11535062

Absolutely, so long as each and every Ork in the lot believes it clear down to their bones. Now good luck conveying this to individual Orks. Somewhere around the point you started touching on the reasoning behind why they should be the most powerful force in the universe, your average Ork would've gotten bored, smashed in your skull, looted your corpse, and gone off in search of something more interesting. The easy way to get them to believe is to SHOW them. Orks are big on self-fulfilling prophesy; the biggest Ork is probably the killiest, so the rest believe he is, so he simply IS.

Orkish stupidity is a built-in limiter for just how powerful the WAAAGH! gestalt can get. It's also why the occasional Ork with exceptional kunning (Gaz, for starters) is incredibly dangerous.

>> No.11535128

>>11535095
Remember that the method through which this manifests is psychic in nature. Orks are not alpha level psykers, even in large numbers. Its not like a "I believe it and it becomes true" thing, its "We believe it so our combined latent psychic abilities try to force reality to comply." So no, not invincible.

>> No.11535133

>>11535116
I think Gazghkull will be the ork to unite the ork-kind. And then shit hits the fan.

>> No.11535135

Few things are as dangerous as a Smartboy with Weirdboys at his command. Just sayin'.

>> No.11535140

>>11535095
>Orks are incredibly stupid, therefore they wouldn't think of something that's incredibly stupid and impossible, such as the colour red making you go faster or the idea that you're invincible or the idea that you can fly.
You're not making too much sense there

>>11535092
They can develop the belief when a landraider is not there?

That's like asking how they would develop the sincere belief that red makes you go faster, if red didn't actually make anything go faster.

If you want to put it that way - several WAAGHS! have a habit of painting themselves red. After a few battles, whether by good circumstance or fortune, none of them are killed -
they believe themselves to be nigh on invincible / incredibly tuff. This makes them tuffer, making it more likely none of them are killed, leading to an even stronger belief that they are invincible.
Eventually they are invincible.

>> No.11535144

>>11535095
Don't doubt the intellect of an Ork, or the agility, their their sneaking ability. However unless they're a weirdboy, you can doubt their psychic ability.

T answer the question: No, they cannot believe themselves invincible, they are not that strong, even with a trillion orks, the best they can muster up is that their engines run a bit smoother or their guns fire off a little more accurate.

>> No.11535145

>>11535133

Yeah. Gahzkull needs to get to the 'Undred 'Undred Teef system in the Koronus Expanse.

>> No.11535151

>>11535144

You are giving them too much credit. They make their engines run less hacky, and their guns less inaccurate

>> No.11535156

>>11535144
No, it's not psychic ability that makes them stronger, it's the fact that they';re like Super Sayins, after every fight they get stronger and bigger.

>> No.11535157

>>11535133
Isn't Ghazghkull like 19 feet tall by now?

>> No.11535166

>>11535151
That's what I just said.

>> No.11535171

>>11535157
13, roughtly 19 with power armor

>> No.11535182

>>11535157
If he keeps winning victories, he'll eventually be a hundred feet tall.
The Emperor had trouble fighting one that big.

>> No.11535184

>>11535171
Power armor? Yous best be jokin', git. We orks call dat mega armor.

>> No.11535194

>>11535062

It's quite simple really, but you lack the brain functions to understand it.

Orks where created for one thing and one thing only; to fight
The where programmed to think a certain way, know certain things, and do certain activities
Fantasizing about "flying with the power of their minds" isnt one of them.

They simply lack the thought processes to think such things. Your example is void because it would never happen. Even the "smart" groups, the Mek boyz, only know how to build shit, they don't know much else.

What's so hard to understand about that?

>> No.11535196

>>11535182
Was that the one during the great crusade that somehow SNUCK up to him and almost snapped his neck?

>> No.11535201

>>11535144
You're describing widely varying levels of power here.
By what mechanism do they make their engines run smoother or their guns shoot more accurately?

>>11535128
Alright, so what about some orks going "WE'Z DA BRAINIEST BOYZ AROUND" - which makes them create better weapons and produce better battle tactics, which feed back into their belief that "we, good sirs, are the most intellectually accomplished members of the Orkish conglomerate", which then grants them a level of intelligence that allows them to identify their latent psychic ability, which then permits them to believe themselves greater psychic ability, which then spirals into them becoming infinitely powerful?

>> No.11535217

>>11535194
>Doop, they is only made to fight

They want to fly so they can get above annoying cover.
They want to be invincible so they can fight better.

Don't throw stones if you live a glass house, you tremendous retard.

>> No.11535220

>>11535201

Smartboys tend to get killed for being 'un-orky' which is a capital offence. Among a lot of other things.

>> No.11535221

Orks must never have gotten to "I think, therefore I WAAAGH" and other complex ideas.

>> No.11535223

>>11535196
>100 foot tall ork
>Snuck up on someone

>> No.11535224

>>11535201
Psykers don't seem to have the ability to increase their psychic ability with their psychic abilities. Orks are no different.

>> No.11535241

>>11535224
Can psykers believe that the colour red will make a vehicle faster, and then make this so?
Can psykers believe that they firearms is more accurate, and then make this so?

>> No.11535245

>>11535133

Ghazghkull IS the promised Orkperor of Orkkind who will unite the Orkz and set da boyz on Da Grait Kroozade to retake the galaxy from 'umies, spikey Chaos-boyz, dem nidz and dem pointy-ears. He is already the largest Ork in the universe and he has got an immeasurably huge WAAAGH at his beck and call. Too bad it is stuck in on Armageddon, and the sheer number of Orks in the galaxy and their tendency to squabble amongst themselves makes Da Grait Kroozade highly improbable. It'll probably fall apart at some point or get stuck up with Nids or the Imperium somewhere along the way.

>> No.11535248

>>11535241
They don't need to believe it. If the psyker is strong enough, he can simply make it happen.

>> No.11535249

So, for clarification, if a bunch of Orkz belive that their shootaz have unlimited ammo, they can spam slugs at their enemy with utter abandon?

>> No.11535252

>>11535140
>They can develop the belief when a landraider is not there?

There's a problem with your reckoning. You're thinking that you can easily condition an Ork to forget what he knows, and to bone-deep BELIEVE something that you can't outright show him.

>If you want to put it that way - several WAAGHS! have a habit of painting themselves red. After a few battles, whether by good circumstance or fortune, none of them are killed - they believe themselves to be nigh on invincible / incredibly tuff. This makes them tuffer, making it more likely none of them are killed, leading to an even stronger belief that they are invincible.
>Eventually they are invincible.

In theory. The problem being, convincing them of that in the first place. They've seen Orks die; hell, they've done their share of killin'. They've been shot and stabbed and hurt themselves. So you're never going to get that initial bunch to believe they're invincible. Ded 'ard, most definitely, and that's how you get 'Ard Boyz and Nobz and so forth in the first place. And sure, if, on a long enough timeline, you could keep an Ork force united and undefeated, you may one day convince them that they're truly invincible. They're damn sure not going to be able to pull it off on their own.

And also, you're talking countless THOUSANDS of Orks to generate enough psyker energy to bend reality that thoroughly. The real challenge is getting that many Orks to play nice and not fragment. It usually requires a force-wide belief that the warboss is biggest, toughest, and meanest, and that going against his word is a fast trip to gettin' dedded.

>> No.11535261

>>11535241

They can make vehicles faster and weapons more accurate, but they don't do it subconsciously. Is this really so hard to grasp?

It's a consensual reality light.

>> No.11535266

>>11535217
You are a colossal idiot

Why would they need to fly to get over cover when the Storm Boyz can already can do that?
Or are you just trying to troll here?

Either way you are looking WAAAAYYYYY to far into the Orks psyker abilities.

As I said before, your argument is invalid because the logic is just not there.

>> No.11535283

>>11535249

Not UNLIMITED, but sure, they probably dig up a few extra rounds.

>> No.11535285

>>11535249
Most definitely.

>> No.11535288

>>11535266
>orks
>logic

>> No.11535290

The problem with the 'invincilibility' thing is the natural infighting. Orks brawl. Each Ork thinks he's the toughest of them all. Hence, he thinks he can beat everyone else. He thinks he, and only he, is invincible.
One Ork thinking something does sweet fuck all.

Of course, that's if you believe that aspect of the fluff. I do, 'cause I think it's cool.

>> No.11535291

>>11535201
>>11535201
THEY CAN'T MAKE THEMSELVES MORE POWERFUL BY PSYCHIC MEANS.

When that much psychic ability manifests it results, in heads exploding, literally. The #1 cause of death for a weirdboy is blowing their head off because they're such powerful psykers their brains can't control it.

Their ability to get stronger is because their bodies continuously develop as they grow older. The more fights they get it, the more duress their bodies go though, the stronger they get.

As I have said, their psychic abilites manifest usually in making their machines and guns work better. A sort of minor psychic field that makes the pistons hold out longer before before a rod is thrown, their guns fire little more straighter and not exploding becaus ethey're overheating and their legs carring them an extra mile charge during a mass Waaagh!

>> No.11535299

>>11535252

You forget. Orks will kill each other for no other reason than spite or amusement. Thus showing them that they are just 'ard, but nothing a propa' boy can't kill.

>> No.11535306

>>11535249

More importantly: if the WAAAGH! energy is strong enough, /they don't even have to think about it/. Their shoota just fires because it's what shootas DO. Now, if the Ork is unfortunately clever enough to (A) see someone else run out of ammo or (B) have the original thought, "'Ey, dis fing gonna run outta dakka?" and start questioning if it's going to fire, it just might stop. At least, until they reload, at which point the shoota will keep firing (and possibly do so well after it should have realistically expended all its ammunition).

>> No.11535312

>>11535283
As an Ork player I deny that. Orks do reload, but they design their weapons abased around two concepts, A: Making noise and then bashing it into something, or B: Shoot as many bullets as you can.

>> No.11535322

From power klaws to Ork 101

Never change, /tg/

>> No.11535340

>>11535266
>Begin insulting
>Why would they all want the ability to fly at will, when a very limited number of them already can, in a very limited and unreliable fashion when assisted by machinery?
>You have no logic
>You a troll of something?

Mhhmmm.

>>11535261
>Consensual reality light
Consensual reality light that is directed towards increasing their psychic powers.
Cue infinite feedback loop, infinitely powerful orks.

>> No.11535342

>>11535312

Right. But does the Snazzgun of a Flash Git ever run out of ammo, if said git has a huge ammo pack on his back, and doesn't pay attention to the amount of lead going into (and out of) his gun?

>> No.11535345

>>11535306
But what the fuck does the shoota fire when the physical rounds inside the weapon run out?

>> No.11535357

But orks don't believe that! The orks aren't even aware that WAAAGH! changes things!
Thus they don't believe that WAAAGH! gets more powerful.
And the weirdboys that DO channel this explodes.

>> No.11535369

>>11535345

Bullets. What else?

>> No.11535379

Gork an' Mork exist, and are the most powerful Warp entities there are. All they do, thankfully, is fight each other.
This is canon.

>> No.11535384

>>11535369
How is bullet formed? How shoota get reloaded?

>> No.11535385

>>11535340
Ork Psykers die when they get too powerful. Their heads literally explode They're physically unable to contain it, and "thinking they can" doesn't work.

>> No.11535395

>>11535340

The odds of any one Ork having that particular thought pattern approach nil. The odds of enough Orks believing it strongly enough for it to become quasi-real are zero. Thusly the argument is moot. You may as well discuss unicorn mating habits.

>>11535345

That's a question for the ages. The obvious answer is
>>11535369
>Bullets.

It could be some sort of warp-made-manifest, or mind-bullets, or equally esoteric fuckery. Asking an Ork might get you an answer, and it might be the last answer you ever get.

>> No.11535401

>>11535384
>>11535345
Through the magical power of belief bullets are materialized from nothing, straight into the belt / magazine.
Thermodynamics?
WHAT'S THAT?


This entire thread is people trying to defend what is basically rule-of-cool.

>> No.11535406

>>11535384

Oy! Smart git! Stop askin' stuff like dat! Do ya want ya shoota to run outta dakka? No! Now get back to shootin stuff!

>> No.11535411

>>11535342
Yes, They just dump in a ton more and keep firing. They usually have around 1000 rounds per trigger pull and keep going until they stop shooting bullets. Not all of them fire bullets too, some shoot las beams or lighting bolts.

The Ork Stompa has a gun that says ion the rules, keeps firing until it runs out of ammo.

>> No.11535418

>>11535401
>Applying Thermodynamics to the Immaterium
>Applying physics to 40k period

>> No.11535423

>>11535384
They need to do way instain warboss> who kill thier booys. becuse these booy cant frigth back? it was on the news this mroing a warboss in ar who had kill his three nobz . they are taking the three nobz back to da hulk too lady to rest my pary are with the smartboy who lost his protcetion ; i am truley sorry for your lots

>> No.11535433

>>11535401

Hell. The Warp could try to accommodate the Ork by letting him shoot bullets already shot or something. Time isn't that big a bother.

>> No.11535438

>>11535395
Says who?
It seems perfectly feasible that a belief in smartness (so as to more efficiently wage war) could eventually lead to recognition of and exploitation of said latent psychic ability.
Besides, you don't even need a group to achieve such a thing - one ork believing that he has greater psychic ability leads to an increase in his psychic ability, however minuscule, which again begins an infinite feedback loop

>> No.11535455

>ITT: People questioning the fucking Orks
DO YOU KNOW HOW ORKS FIGHT IN SPACE MOTHERFUCKERS?
THEY HOLD THEIR GOD DAMN BREATH. FUCK LOGIC IT'S GOD DAMN ORKS.

>> No.11535464

>>11535438
I should add that there are are ridiculous number of orcs, no?
Something along the lines of "if every single unit of imperial munition was used to kill a single orc they would still be many left"

>> No.11535472

>>11535438

Result is Weirdboy, and incidentally, a spontaneously exploding Weirdboy.

Because they are the only ones who can understand that they themselves HAVE a capability, and what they'd do is open themselves to more of the WAAAGH!, since they channel everyone's power, not just their own, making them insanely powerful and unstable.

>> No.11535476

>>11535306
>>11535312
>>11535283
>>11535285

Orks sound hella dangerous. I mean fuck, imagine being a Guardsmen, firing your lasgun at an advancing horde of Orks, and they open up with shootaz and sluggaz that never quite seem to reload. You expend power pack upon power pack, and they keep shooting at your position, decimating your battalion. You duck for cover, waiting for a break in the shooting, for the reload to happen. but it never does...

Orkz close distance. Kill you.

>> No.11535483

>>11535464

Actually, at several times in the history of the galaxy, such as when extra-large WAAAGH!'s have been terminated, there have been more HUMANS than Orkz in the Galaxy.

>> No.11535500

>>11535438

Except that his belief in his own inherent smartness is countered by all of his superiors in the Orkish pecking order being convinced that he's something of a dim bulb. It's only when he actually demonstrates something that convinces them that he's intelligent that he'll start getting enough OTHER Orks believing. Unfortunately, they also believe that with this additional psyker power comes the periodic happenstance of your head fucking exploding. Which, too, will become true.

One Ork, by himself, is not a powerful psyker. He can just barely bend the rules. So he could believe himself a few IQ points, but not suddenly make himself a supergenius.

>> No.11535513

>>11535476

Aaand that is when the commisar yells. "Bayonets on! Prepare to charge!"

Also, remember that guardsmen (all properly trained, that is) mutter prayers ALL THE TIME.
Imagine that. When these guardsmen have donned bayonets and charge up from their trenches, either they will yell "For the Emperor" or the Litany of Smiting.

>> No.11535521

>>11535472
What?
Why?

>>11535500
I didn't say intelligence, I said psychic ability.

>> No.11535546

Looks like we have another "Ork technology works only because of the power of belief" thread.

/tg/, why do you keep doing this over and over again?

>> No.11535550

>>11535521

You DID however say that they needed to believe in their smartness for them to realize that they had to believe in their psychic powers.

Or is that perhaps not what you meant with
>It seems perfectly feasible that a belief in smartness (so as to more efficiently wage war) could eventually lead to recognition of and exploitation of said latent psychic ability.

>> No.11535561

GUYS GUYS GUYS.

You ever stop to think that whatever makes the ork tech work better ONLY works with ork tech? Thus why they can't "believe" themselves invincible or believe themselves into flying. Also why the thing they build has to at least work in theory.

It could just be a sort of technomancy combined with genetic blueprints for weapons so they could scrounge up weapons on any planet they land on(just what the old ones needed).

>> No.11535573

>>11535521

Doesn't matter. Apply it to any attribute you want. Psyker ability. Intelligence. Strength. Endurance. Height. Take your pick. Enough Orks believe it, it starts becoming true. But most Orks believe reality as they face it, so convincing them of something they can't plainly see is challenging at best and bloody fucking unlikely at worst.

So no, ONE Ork can't believe himself an Omega+ psyker. He can believe himself slightly more psychically powerful, if he were so inclined (which he's not). If he convinces all the other Orks he's a powerful psyker, then he might just become one... and his head will fucking explode.

You keep applying attributes to Orks they simply don't have, and then positing hypotheticals. Again, you may as well discuss the breeding habits of unicorns.

>> No.11535585

Orks are basically physic mushrooms that don't know they are physic, end of story. Anybody who knows shit about orks knows what i'm talking about

>> No.11535591

>>11535585

Yep. And if you excuse me. I will now make my Ork NPC Freeboota Kommandoz.

>> No.11535604

YOU CAN'T SIMPLY THINK SOMETHING AND BELIEVE IT.

CONSCIOUSLY THINKING "I BELIEVE I AM INVINCIBLE" AND BELIEVING YOU ARE INVINCIBLE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
ALSO, ORKS ARE NOT CONSCIOUS OF THEIR LATENT PSYCHIC ABILITY

>> No.11535607

>>11535585
>physic

physic (countable and uncountable; plural physics)

1. (countable) A medicine or drug, especially a cathartic or purgative.
2. (uncountable) The art or profession of healing disease; medicine.

>> No.11535614

I would argue that an Ork would never need to think about becoming invincible, because Orks don't fear death. They know that they will be brought back by Gork and Mork to fight again, so they have no reason to want to never be harmed.

>Orks wanting to fly
Dat's wot flyboyz were made fer, an' besides, dey ain't even gettin' to da gud bitz of da fight, watchin' dat 'umie git a wallopin' by me choppa!

>> No.11535615

>>11535418
hows iz a right propa mad doc.

>> No.11535616

>>11535607
Phycic* - my bad bro.

>> No.11535634

>>11535616

no.

try again.

>> No.11535640

>>11535550
I was referring to the second sentence.

i.e. Belief that he is however-the-fuck-you-spell-psychically powerful, leading to a minuscule increase in psychic power, leading to an a minuscule increase in psychic power, so on and so forth.

>> No.11535656

>>11535561

It works for their enemies, too. As silly as it sounds, it's influenced the way the IoM behaves.

Take Titans. We've already had the discussion about their utter impracticality, which boils down to Murphy's Second Law of Combat - If it's stupid, but it works, it's not stupid. Titans are incredibly effective anti-Ork weapons because they fit Orkish preconceptions of what an Ork-killing superweapon should be. It's huge, it LOOKS like an unstoppable killing machine, and lo and behold, it also happens to BE somewhat good at annihilating enemies. So every Ork on the battlefield simultaneously starts believing, "Dat fing could kill me ded." And suddenly they're all correct.

Look at SM battle doctrine. Or Guard doctrine, for that matter. They behave in ways which are tactically stupid, and yet which become a benefit when facing Orks.

>> No.11535659

>>11535573
>Enough Orks believe it, it starts becoming true

No. It doesn't. It doesn't work that way. It never worked that way. This is a fan made myth and nothing more. The only support in the fluff there is for this is the RED ONEZ GO FASTAH rule. That's it.

NOW SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IT. We all know this is the most retarded thing ever. Stop repeating it. It won't make it any less stupid. The Orks cannot just believe anything they want into being real.

>> No.11535677

>>11535659
There's the bit of fluff about Ork vehicles not working in human hands, and Ork weapons being incredibly unreliable.

I really wished I remembered which book that was in. Was it Xenology or an older Ork Codex?

>> No.11535687

>>11535656
>We've already had the discussion about their utter impracticality

You god damn stupid fuck.

40k is BUILT on impracticality. The most iconic centerpiece of the entire setting, the Space Marines, would be a waste of space and money if actually implemented in the real world no matter the technological level.

Titans are in the game because it's awesome. That's all the fucking reason 40k needs.

God damn. What's with the modern obsession with having to make every single thing in a fake setting make perfect logical real world sense? You do realize that 40k was made back when no one gave a shit about that, right? Everything you see is there because it's funny/silly/awesome/dark. No other reason.

>> No.11535701

>>11535677
Ork guns become unreliable in the hands of non-orks in Dark Heresy. So its a thing, but not "create bullets out of nothing" kind of thing, more Ork brain presence makes thier shit work a bit better.

>> No.11535704

>>11535659
There's a bit of fluff I remember reading that an Ork Bolter was nothing more then a shell with a few loose casings inside it, yet it had been used to kill humans a few minutes before.

>> No.11535707

>>11535677
I'm skeptical about the vehicle thing, but you ever stop to think that the Orks just live with the fact their weapons are unreliable as hell? That maybe they just don't give a shit and hit the thing till it keeps working again?

Or maybe that they actually DO know what they are doing technologically? The Old Ones built them with a genetic memory, after all. It isn't like they glue a metal tube to a stick and shoot people with it. They actually do know how to build and make these things.

They just happen to be.. very dangerous to use for the user. Something the Orks don't care about because they were made to not fear death and generally be expendable in large numbers.

>> No.11535710

>>11535677

Dark Heresy.
Ork Weapons gain the Unreliable quality when held by weapons.

Also backed up by books, such as in the Cain books when a Techpriest takes a look at an Ork Buggy that shouldn't be able to go forward.

>> No.11535713

>>11535704
That and Ork Wierdboys CHANEL THE PHYSIC POWER OF THE WAAAAAGH!

>> No.11535720

>>11535659
>MY OPINION IS THE ONLY RIGHT ONE! STOP SAYING OTHER THINGS!

>> No.11535725

ITT: NECKBEARD BRAWL

Actually quite apropriate really, given how much Orks love infighting.

>> No.11535740

>>11535710
>Ork Weapons gain the Unreliable quality when held by weapons.

WHAT HAS ORK SCIENCE DONE?

>> No.11535749

>>11535740

Ok ok. I haven't slept in two days, I make errors. I apologize.

I did mean non-orkz.

And then I do not mean that non-orkz become unreliable when wielded neither as nor by weapons.

>> No.11535750

>>11535710
That implies Tech Priests actually know what the fuck they are doing anyway. And most in the setting don't. These are assholes that burn incense before pressing the Holy On Switch for god sakes.

Again. Old ones. The Orks are essentially making OLD ONES LEVEL TECH. That's what they were programed with. They just build it out of shit they can find so it doesn't work like it should. Is it any shock humans can't figure out how to work it right?

Maybe.. maybe they have some kind of low level technomancy.. maybe. However, Orks cannot just believe anything they want into existence. Every single instance of "proof" anyone has ever provided has other already fluff approved reasons behind it.

Insisting they can believe anything they want into being encounters the exact huge list of reasons already brought up. "Why don't the orks just ____ then?" which no one can provide a satisfactory answer to. Yes, we all could see you guys pull those reasons out of your ass as fast as you could.

>> No.11535757

>>11535750

No. Techpriests know what stuff does. It is just shrouded in mystery. When an engine looks like it does, it should work. When it doesn't, it shouldn't work.
They don't know WHY but HOW. They can replicate that engine, but they cannot improve it, since they don't understand why it does what it does.

>> No.11535766

>>11535749
Orks are just buddy buddy with their machine spirits.
CAPTCHA: hobnail obvious

>> No.11535767

>>11535750

Orks are a fungus. They are not super intelligent. They are not building high tech gadgetry.

They have a powerful psychic presence that allows their equipment to function when it technically shouldn't.

The 'Why don't the orks just' questions are easily countered with: "BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO ACTUALLY BELIEVE IT, NOT JUST THINK ABOUT IT."

There is a clear, obvious difference.

>captcha: theological totten

>> No.11535779

>>11535750
>I didn't like your answers. Therefore, I declare them all invalid.

God damn you're a petulant little prat. They're gonna have a field day with you once you're out of grade school.

>> No.11535789

>>11535750

The answer 'it wouldn't occur to them' is pretty much how it goes for most of them. Their psyker talents aren't omnipotent or anything, they just make firing mechanisms that are little more than a bit of metal hitting another bit of metal actually shoot bullets (inaccurately). They only work because they don't think about it. The ones that DO think about it explode on a regular basis, which just proves to most orks that it just aint proper orky to think too hard. Ork powers operate on a consensus basis: they think a gun looks like this and fires like this, so when they make something that is significantly like a gun, it fires like that. They couldn't just think "A planet blowing up looks like this, so all the human planets should blow up!" (which would be counter productive for orks anyways), because so far as orks are concerned, planets don't blow up for no reason. Pulling the trigger of a gun with a bullet in it, though, that's ded killy.

Seriously, the red ones *literally* go faster. This is in the rules and always has been. The only mechanical difference is that they are painted red.

>> No.11535811

>>11535750
>derpderp

That was the point, it never really got anywhere beyond making Ork Equipment more reliable in the hands of Orks.

Also, how entertaining is the idea that Snotlings might actually be the Old Ones?

>> No.11535816

>>11535767
They don't need a super intellect. Genetic memory means they can build it without know what they are really doing. The Orks were designed from the ground up as a shock force the Old Ones could just dump anywhere without the need of a supply line. The Eldar needed a supply line and a place to build their awesome tech, but they weren't enough. They needed a force they could just dump somewhere to cause trouble while the Eldar got mobilized.

>They have a powerful psychic presence
There is no fluff support for this. Only /tg/ fervently fapping to orks.

>are easily countered
No, what I saw happen was the same thing conspiracy theorists do. Your half baked idea has a glaring logical hole in it that was discovered two seconds after you said it. In defense you pile up a list of convoluted and ever elaborate explanations to plug the holes. Reasons you make up on the spot because you didn't think your point of view through before posting.

>> No.11535818

>>11535811
Nobgrok is Chairface Chippendale, Marines are The Tick?

>> No.11535821

>>11535789

Knowing something can be done and believing something can be done are quite different. Faith in the warhammer universe has always worked like that. Faith in the Emperor isn't strong because he's actually a god, it's strong because it's a combined psychic presence. Billions upon billions of people all believing wholeheartedly in his godhood grants his followers the psychic protection of his supposed deification.

Orks are no different. Even if they figured out why their shit works, they'd still have to make sense of it and internalize it into a true belief.

"There is no spoon" and all that shit.

>captcha: Proving to

Fuck, I love captcha.

>> No.11535838

>>11535816

So you deny our evidence, and keep sprouting a theory about that they secretly make hyper-advanced gear, that the Old Ones told them, based on absolutely nothing at all.

>> No.11535844

>>11535816

"you are wrong because I said so. I can cite nothing, nor can I counter what you said, so I will continue saying you are wrong."

If the hole is so glaring, please, enumerate my failings.

>> No.11535868

>>11535816
>no psychic presence

>DUUUURHUUUUR

>> No.11535873

>>11535811
Yeah see.. I've said it several times. Some level of technomancy ability I can swallow.. but the idea of them just collectively wishing anything they want is so horrifically dumb and has no basis in the fluff. There is justification for technomancy everywhere, but not just making anything they absolutely want happen just by believing it hard enough. This is not Tenga Toppa Gurren Orkan (though now, having said that, someone will probably make an alternate setting where it is just that). All the implausible stuff that could be because of their "belief" only applies to their technology.

Orks get bigger and tougher from genetics. Don't need reality bending to explain that. Orks are genetically engineered monsters of the Old Ones. Respect that fact.

>Snotlings are Old Ones

..WAIT WHAT?

>> No.11535877

>>11535816
>There is no fluff support for this. Only /tg/ fervently fapping to orks.

>Ork behavior is dominated by the Waaagh!, a psychic field they generate. This field allows Orks to instinctively recognize who is 'bigga' and therefore, in charge. This field also has some effect on reality; it plays a key role in making many Orkish technologies work at all, and lends truth to certain Orkish beliefs, such as the idea that red vehicles move faster than those of other colors. Orks seem unaware the Waaagh creates these effects, simply believing they are how the world works.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Waaagh

>> No.11535880

>>11535816

There's a clinical term for what you're doing here. It's called "projection". It's where you take your own faults (the ease with which you were refuted) and project them upon others (the people who refuted you). It's the last bastion of one who is arguing from a position of weakness, or an indicator of some serious mental problems.

Orks are innate psykers. The more powerful and universal a belief, the more true it is. There are canon examples. That you disagree or disbelieve is immaterial. I'm not going to cite chapter and verse, because (A) I'm at work and my books aren't handy, and (B) this is fucking 4chan, and I don't have to do anything of the sort. Your arguments have been countered, and your dislike of the counter-arguments is meaningless and has no impact on their validity. If you have something else to add beyond beating the old stale standbys, by all means, offer it up. In short, put up or shut up.

>> No.11535902

>>11535873
It's an Ork legend, and like everything else in 40k, a clear answer is never given.

Anyways, the legend has it that Snotlings were once "Da Brain Boyz", which created the Orks to protect them, eventually the Orks grew too powerful to control and they became the Overlords of their runtier kin.

Also, more random bits of fluff.

>> No.11535907

>>11535873

In certain older, civilized cultures, when men had failed as entirely as you have, they would throw themselves upon their own swords.

>> No.11535921

>>11535873

1: You have no idea what you're talking about.

2: You keep saying 'red ones go faster' like it's a joke, but they do, which *by itself* makes you wrong.

3: I don't think you really know what 'believing in something' means. You can't just say "I believe I can crush planets with my hands". That's not believing it. Orks believe their guns work in the same way we believe a rock will fall if we drop it. It's not an active choice, it's just the way the universe works.

>> No.11535927

>>11535907

Ten teef sez dis runty grot of a namefag iz gonna bugger off an' not post wiv' dat name no more.

>> No.11535933

>>11535877
>Orks seem unaware the Waaagh creates these effects, simply believing they are how the world works.

There we have it.

>> No.11535937

>>11535927

I don't have any teeth, but I have a broken mug from when I was posing all these screenshots. Will that do?

>> No.11535949

>>11535844
Lets stop a moment and make sure we're caught up with each other.

>>11535873
Read this and pay attention to

>Some level of technomancy I can swallow..

What I'm saying is being able to make anything happen is dumb. Technomancy of some kind has tons of support.. but not just being able to believe anything into existence they want. Technology is the medium their psychic collective belief could travel through.. which is appropriate for a genetic weapon made by the Old Ones.

I just have a beef against the idea they can BELIEVE ANYTHING to happen. There really is nowhere that comes from other than /tg/'s wishful thinking. The worst part is people read the fluff for 40k on this board and come to think it's the truth. The misconception and lie keeps itself going.

>>11535838
SPOILERS

The Orks and Eldar were bio-engineered by the Old Ones to combat the Necrons and Ctan. The Eldar were the elite forces, but Orks served their purpose as a shock force or perfect for a hellhole planet with no backup since they can rise up form anything.

Then the Old Ones left and left their toys just laying around.

You.. didn't know this?

>> No.11535957

>>11535937

Dis aint teef! Wuts dis rot, you aint got teefs a'tall! Ize got alf a mind ta crumps ya.

>> No.11535970

>>11535949

So he admits he was wrong and we move on. Yay! We won an argument, on the internet!

Where's confetti.jpeg when you need it...

>> No.11535978

Oi gits!

If we orks could make anythin' happen jus' by finking it, dontcha fink Ghazghkull would haf figured dat out already?

>> No.11535983

>>11535949

It's a shame 'your beef' doesn't mean fuck all. Them's the breaks, kid.

The lore says you're wrong. It doesn't matter what level you can swallow. That IS how it works. That's just one of the many reasons that a united ork race could wipe out the galaxy ten times over.

Now, you keep mentioning the orks and eldar being made. We know this. It has nothing to do with how they work, though. The old ones could have originally intended them to manufacture shoes, but it's been fifty bajillion years since then.

Deal with it.

>> No.11535984

>>11535949
>I just have a beef against the idea they can BELIEVE ANYTHING to happen. There really is nowhere that comes from other than /tg/'s wishful thinking.

But they really CAN change reality with how they think reality should be.
I'm sorry that you do not like it, but that doesn't make it any less so.

>> No.11536005

>>11535978
This is a fair point, to be honest.

>> No.11536011

I should probably also add that in one of the older ork codexes, references to open-cockpit ork planes leaving atmo, with absolutely no harm coming to the orks.

The same codex has a story about an ork stealing imperial aircraft that had been completely drained of fuel so that orks couldn't steal them.

Both of these stories were given right after the "red ones go fasta" rule explanation which has ALWAYS implied it was because the orks believed it to be true. I think that if the author had not wanted to imply that orks weren't psykers (in this limited sense) that these stories would have been omitted.

Also, orks disconnect fuel lines on their aircraft so they can drink the fuel, so....yeah.

>> No.11536023

>>11535949

If enough orks believe in something, it's not unlikely that something similar will happen. That's how psykers *work*. However, Orks will never be that focused or that concerted, because they're orks, so it's irrelevant. Unless you take a step back and consider that the galaxy (including the Eye of Terror, the Tyranid invasion, the rise of the Necrons, pretty much every major event... ever) is essentially paradise for Orks.

Just a thought.

>> No.11536028

>>11535877
Wikis are to be avoided as official sources. They are good for convenient information collection, but you should always be able to back it up with where they got THEIR information from.

Cite official book.

>>11535921
>>11535880
I love that I specifically said you guys are partially right with the orks making their tech just work.. but still insist I'm discounting them having any psychic ability at all.

Maybe you should actually read that post rather than just seeing my name and going to make a rage reply?

All I've been saying this whole time is they can't just make ANYTHING HAPPEN. There is plenty proof for some technological related power.. but that's it.

>>11535902
Poor bastards.

>> No.11536029

>>11536005

And that is why we have repeatedly said THINKING =! BELIEVING

>> No.11536031

>>11536011

...I'd have a hard time not laughing if orks stole my gunship that way. I mean, shit, if that's not a comedic fuck you, I don't know what is.

>> No.11536037

>>11535659
If enough orks believe it, their combined latent warp powers starts bending reality to make it true.
Example: Red is faster, Yellow is wealthier, Blue is luckier
But it only works because you got billions of ork empowering it, and because the ork do not doubt it(too much).
Warboss? Ork who as killed, killed, killed, killed and killed even more, unilt he got recognized as something more than a Nob. Then the latent energies makes him taller, because "the tallest is the strongest".
The entire reason the orks are not invinicble is because:
*There can easly sneak in some doubt, somewhere, that doubt can spread, ergo they can not be invincible
*It would be boring
If 1 ork belivies something, if the thing is small enough, it might happen over time. If a entire wagh of several billion orks believe something small, it becomes true(red is faster! Guns do not need to reload!), the case with guns means that an induvidual see somebody reloading, and then start doubting, and thus it spreads.
Etc..............

>> No.11536041

>>11536028

You were given codex pages. By the Emperor, I want to throttle you.

>> No.11536043

>>11536028

Right. That's fucking it. I thought you would accept the codex page about weirdboys channeling the WAAAGH! power.

Will you accept it if I dig up the page in Creatures Anathema that states it as well?

>> No.11536044

>>11536011
Talking about fighta bommas...

Notice how the fuel is routed through the cockpit so the pilot can DRINK it if he gets thirsty.

>> No.11536047

>>11536028

Protip: Don't open with hyperbole. It makes you look like an idiot.

>> No.11536054

>>11535983
>>11535984
>That IS how it works.

Cite your sources. Both of you.

>>11536011
And funnily enough.. all of these are technology related!

>> No.11536065

>>11536031

>'Sir! The Orks! They stole the ship!'
>"WHAT? I ORDERED THE FUEL DRAINED! YOU HAVE FAILED! *BLAM*
> 'U-u-uh s-s-s-sir, what the trooper was trying to say when you shot him was 'we drained them like you ordered'
>"YOU DARE QUESTION A COMMI-Wait, what?"

>> No.11536066

>>11536054

That's it, I'm coming in there.

>> No.11536070

>>11535949
>What I'm saying is being able to make anything happen is dumb.

And what we're saying is that the above is a statement of opinion. You're entitled to your own, no matter how wrong it is, but you're not going to stop us from telling you just how wrong you are. So your options are to disregard your own opinion, argue your case convincingly (you're failing miserably on that front), or STFU.

>I just have a beef against the idea they can BELIEVE ANYTHING to happen.

Stop. You're trying to apply logic to the warp. Let me repeat that, in case you didn't quite catch the sheer scope of inanity that statement encompasses: YOU'RE TRYING TO APPLY LOGIC. TO THE WARP. The place where down is up, left is Tuesday, green is √(-1)^π, and [INSERT UNTHINKABLE HERE]. So YES, Orks collectively channeling that power can do things which should not be, things which defy logic, because THAT'S WHAT THE WARP IS.

>> No.11536071

>>11536054

So.. Flying an imperial bomber without fuel is due to the Orkz 'superior' technology?

>> No.11536080

>>11536041
>You were given codex pages. By the Emperor, I want to throttle you.
Where? The thread is getting pretty hectic. I can't seem to find what you mean.

>> No.11536094

>>11536080

>> No.11536095

>>11536044
>Stop, Fast and WAAAAAGH

I want a speed-o-meter like that in my car.

>> No.11536096

>>11536080

Right Bloody Here >>11535868

>> No.11536097

You could make an argument for stories like Tuska and Snikkrot being successful cases of psychic wish-realization beyond technology

Personally I'm going with "We can tie a Wyrdboy to the outside of our spaceship and use him as a lance weapon".

>> No.11536098

>>11536054

'Red ones going faster' is only tangentially technologically related. They don't alter the mechanics in any way, or put in different parts, or drive any differently. They just paint it red.

Hey, 'technomancy' of this sort has nothing to do with technology. It is the very literal opposite. Either you accept that orks can make guns function, and are ergo powerful latent psykers that could drastically alter the universe if they thought they could (and accept that this is irrelevant because they don't think they can and never will), or you flatly refuse to believe that any of the official ork fluff is official.

>> No.11536113

>>11536097
Wasn't Snikrot that Kommando nob who fought a 50 year guerilla war against the Armageddon Ork Hunters, while wearing only the bare necessities?

>> No.11536126

>>11536113
>50 year guerilla war

How long do Orkz actually live? Are they biologically immortal?

>> No.11536134

>>11536096
The psychic power is produced by all orks, but the weird boys are the ones that collect it and use it. Not all the orks, and the tech still works as usual without the weirdboyz there.

It says nothing about all the orks actually being able to use any of that power. Just that they generate it.. and the Weird Boy can collect it.

This is what I mean. It's reading stuff into the fluff that isn't there.

>>11536098
The red making vehicles go faster only works on vehicles though. That's technology related.

See my point? Painting Orks themselves red has no specific rules, and the other colors only have fluff effects, right?

>> No.11536136

>>11536126

Yep.
They keep refreshing.

>> No.11536141

>>11536126

Until they get killed, I think.
Don't call me on that, half-remembered guessing.
It's not like an Ork will ever die of natural causes anyways.

>> No.11536146

>>11536134
Blue warpaint used to give a 6+ invulnerable or something didn't it?

>> No.11536147

>>11536134

>red paint
>technology

>> No.11536150

>>11536134

Focal point. Not the generators.
In four minutes I'll have Creature's Anathema down.
I recommend you download it from /rs/ as I'll have a page reference soon to show you.

>> No.11536157

>>11536113
Yep.

>He and his Kommandos stripped down to the bare minimum kit so their bodies blended in with the jungle. They began a campaign of terror and psychological warfare that still plagues the Imperial war effort on Armageddon. Snikrot and his Kommandos were still at large at the start of the Third War for Armageddon 50 years later. His band of Kommandos are called the Red Skull Kommandos, so named for their tendency of scalping their victims. They are the only Orks that the famed Armageddon Ork Hunters fear. In fact the legend of Snikrot is often told as a scary story in Armageddon, for someone with so any legendary deeds and monstrosities attributed to him can surely not be real, can they?

>> No.11536178

>>11536147
Is not hard concept.

The orks can probably effect TECHNOLOGY through belief.. but there is no support for it working for anything else. All the examples of weird ork stuff happening has all been tech related. Guns firing that shouldn't. Vehicles that have no way to be started. Vehicles that run with no gas even if they do work.

It's all tech related shenanigans.

>> No.11536186

>>11536134

Son you just went full retard.

You're saying that PAINT is TECHNOLOGY that somehow SUPERCHARGES Ork vehicles? Despite being PAINT.

RED PAINT.

PIGMENT THAT DRIES.

PAINTED ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE TRUKK.

>facepalm

>> No.11536191

>>11536147
Bitches for Thusla Doom?

>> No.11536192

>>11536178

...you do know that orks magically bulk up and become bigger and stronger when there's a fight coming, right? Like, if a nob is thinking of taking on the warboss, he magically grows a foot and adds 40 lbs of muscle?

No tech in that.

>> No.11536195

>>11536150

While you're at it, pick up the last Ork codex. There's more than just HURR RED GO FASTA to the WAAAGH!

>> No.11536196

>>11536186
No, they are saying that red paint is simply a mark of the Ork technomancy as it applies to vehicles. Like a cargo cult. The paint itself does nothing, but it spurs the technomancy of the Ork psychic gestalt into action.

>>11536178
Again, I believe blue warpaint used to give you an invulnerable save.

>> No.11536202

>>11536178

Ok. Creatures Anathema, Page 100. The table about Ork weaponry.

Ork ranged weapons have the tag "Unreliable" that gets removed when Orkz handle it, but not when anyone else does.
Why?

>> No.11536204

>>11536192
I think Clover said they're like pokemon and that is just the Orks evolving. Because that makes more sense apparently.

>> No.11536212

>>11536202
How in any way does that refute the point that Ork psychic gestalt is restricted to technomancy?

Lrn2arguebetter, /tg/.

>> No.11536218

>>11536150
>Focal point. Not the generators.
That's what I said. The weird boyz are the focal point for the produced collective power. It says nothing about individual orkz being able to use that power. It takes a weird boy, apparently, to collect all the energy and use it. I am also not aware of any rules that say the tech stops working without weirdboyz around.

I'm not saying orks aren't pullnig some psyker crap at all.. but that page posted is not the proof this thread thinks it is. All it confirms is that, like every other emotion baring being in the universe, the orks produce psychic energy. That's not anything anyone doesn't already know though. Even the Tau produce that power.. they just produce barely any at all.

And can you just post the page here? My connection is slow as hell.

>> No.11536226

>>11536218
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Waaagh

>Ork behavior is dominated by the Waaagh!, a psychic field they generate. This field allows Orks to instinctively recognize who is 'bigga' and therefore, in charge. This field also has some effect on reality; it plays a key role in making many Orkish technologies work at all, and lends truth to certain Orkish beliefs, such as the idea that red vehicles move faster than those of other colors. Orks seem unaware the Waaagh creates these effects, simply believing they are how the world works.

>> No.11536232

Well, it gets confusing in general when talking about Psyker powers but there are a few obvious examples of the world being altered by Orks.

First one is the WAAGH ability itself, which actually does make Orks run faster.
Then there's Ghazzy's WAAAGH, which in addition to making Orks move much faster, also makes him nigh invincible (2+ Invulnerable save)
Lastly, there's Old Zogwort, who, using the focused power of the WAAAGH, can turn people into squigs.

>> No.11536233

>>11536218
You haven't disputed the argument clover is making. Seriously /tg/, how can you not identify an argument? You get in them all the fucking time.

>> No.11536234

>>11536212

I've been spending 20 minutes hunting that book down. I will not allow it to be an outdated argument stop me.

At least I can hope for an acceptance from clover that shootas are not super-high tech weapons genetically coded into orkz from the Old Ones.

>> No.11536247

>>11536192
..I thought that was already acceptably explained by ork genetics? Orks getting ready for a fight get bulkier. Orks that live long enough grow big(problem being ork life span is short from the constant fighting). If the situation gets tough, they respond invidually by getting tougher.

That's.. very easily explained by ork genetics. And already is. That's how their biology works.

>>11536196
>The paint itself does nothing, but it spurs the technomancy of the Ork psychic gestalt into action.

FUCKING THANK YOU.

THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING.

>>11536202
Again. That's tech related. It's a condition that applies to the technology. Easily explained by Technomancy. Doesn't require any DO EVERYTHING EVER power.

>>11536212
Jesus thank you.

I was worried no one was actually reading my posts. They claim I'm the one not making sense when it's like they don't even read what I'm putting down.

>> No.11536248

>>11536226

He doesn't want Wiki references, They are untrustworthy.
Anyhow. Here is that weapon table. At least the weapons change when Orkz handle them and not. Same with aforementioned fuel-less planes.

>> No.11536263

>>11536248
>Lexicanum
>Untrustworthy

You do know that everything that does not have sources in established fluff gets deleted from Lexicanum?

>> No.11536266

>>11536247

The only examples given are with tech because it's fucking war.

I bet you're one of those retards who thinks all the Imprium's worlds are fucking barren ash rocks because hurr durr all the examples are wartorn!

>> No.11536275

I had orcs pioneer a magenta colored paint that gives their vehicles stealth capabilities.

Ten points if someone gets why that's funny.

>> No.11536285

>>11536266

Wasn't there a book from ages ago that went more into the background stuff, like what Orks do in between hitting things?

>> No.11536286

>>11536275

It is funny because everyone knows pink is the stealthiest color. Have you ever seen a pink Ork? I think not.

>> No.11536287

>>11536266
Okay, first off: your counterpoint is absolute bullshit.

A substantial portion of Imperial fluff deals with non-war activities and non-barren worlds. Neither does Ork fluff settle exclusively on battle - but all presented examples of ork psychic interference are currently about technology. I wish there was a grognard here to confirm my blue warpaint suspicion.

>>11536248
This is still technomancy. We can see in the listing of psychic powers that technomancy is an actual psychic discipline, not merely the application of telekinesis or electrokinesis - powers such as Machine Empathy demonstrate this.

>> No.11536303

>>11536275
Somebody Else's Problem field.

>> No.11536306

>>11536234
The orks ARE built by the old ones. Sorry bro. They were a genetic weapon race like the Eldar were. Granted both have probably fallen a ways since then without their overlords to keep them in check. They were never designed to be on their lonesome this long.

Ork Shoota being old one tech? In the strictest sense.. maybe. It's what the Old Ones gave them as the best thing available for what they'd be doing(you can only do so much with random crap you find planet side). It depends on your point of view if it's OLD ONE TECH from there or not.

Orks do get some pretty freaky things though. Like those sweet ass lightning guns.

>> No.11536325

>>11536287

Sure they have. You just pretended that it wasn't about Orkish powers.

It's amazing how much less evidence there is against a point when you arbitrarily dismiss all of it without cause.

>>e.g. monorail

A sound point.

>> No.11536334

>>11536306

Know what. I'll just give up.

It is now sure. You are a troll. Noone can actually believe that. 10/10. You made me feel both raging and powerless at the same time.
If you excuse me, I'll go name something meek and powerless 'clover' and pummel it to vent some frustration.

>> No.11536336

>>11536248

Got Grot blastas? Or are they just very, very small versions of ork weapons?

>> No.11536344

>>11536306
Ork current weapons are probably considerably degenerated from the original examples (which I'd say were still Ork-designed and Ork-made. There is no similarity between Ork and Eldar tech, other than they both like choppy dakka). The original 'brain boyz' of the (Kr)Ork have become stupid gretchin. Mekboyz are probably degenerate assistant to the original scientists or something. They've fallen a far way, the weapons they use now may not even be of the same type as their originals.

Another argument for shootas, sluggas et al not being Old One weapons is the fact they are constructable from an incredibly variety of sources and that there is no baseline type.

>> No.11536348

>>11536287

I'm fairly certain that you're correct about the blue warpaint. I've never played Orks, but I distinctly remember that blue = lucky, although I think it was a certain tribe or feral Orks that it worked with.

>> No.11536356

>>11536287

There were Orks in WHFB that were painted blue and got an invuln save, back when I played in 3rd ed. Is that what you're thinking of?

>> No.11536359

>>11536325
No, there haven't. Everything you people are presenting is in some way applicable to technology. I am arguing against Clover!, but you keep presenting examples in line with the argument or proposal they have made as if the examples are some kind of refutation.

If someone could confirm blue warpaint gave an invulnerable, that COULD be a refutation. There's no technological basis, and Clover! would have to step out of the psychic power area for an explanation or accept defeat. Either way it would be a weakening of Clover!'s position. But everyone keeps saying things like Red Wans Go Fasta as if this is somehow not associated with technology.

>> No.11536364

>>11536286
Actually it was because I read somewhere that the human eye can't pick up magenta; what we see is the closest thing our brains can manage.

I don't know if its TRUE or not, but its just scientific enough for my mad scientist ork villain to use.

>> No.11536366

>>11536356
That's probably it. Damnation.

>> No.11536369

>>11536359

Argh. I remember a short story, can't remember where it was from. The ork in it was thinking about how it was his lucky day after he put on more blue, because he found a shot-down imperial craft and yoinked the autocannons from it.

Gah! I hate vaguely remembering something but not knowing where I read it!

>> No.11536375

>>11536369
Explainable as confirmation bias, there would need to be some indication of actual psychic power.

>> No.11536381

>>11536275
WHY DOZ YER NEVA SEE A BOY WEARIN' PURPLE?
COZ DERE SO DEAD SNEEKIE, SEE?

>> No.11536394

>>11536381
DATZ BRILLYANT!

>> No.11536401

>>11536334
Oh stop being a cry baby.

I'm sorry, but the Old Ones made most of the current sentient species in the galaxy. That includes humans, orks, and eldar. The humans were just a project that wasn't completed in time. The Eldar and Orks were designed to fight their enemies of the time. They STARTED some kind of project on earth.. but never got around to finishing it. No word on what stage they got to. Presumably they just left a bunch of random code in and were going to fiddle with it.. but the Old Ones got ran off before then. Humans are essentially a genetic dumping ground unfinished product.

That's just how the setting is. Old Ones did it. Don't like it? Do what /tg/ always does and go LA LA LA CAN'T HEAR YOU and make your own fluff. /tg/ loves making it's own fluff, and I like that(I just don't like it when/tg/ tries to pass off the home brew as the default setting). Don't cry troll like a child, though.

The specifics get fuzzy from there. The Orks are a shock force you can just send anywhere and they'll build up an army by their very nature. The Eldar were more elite few with a more traditional supply line approach. Great if you could actually establish such a position.. but if you couldn't then the Orks were useful(and they are great for hellhole worlds).

What were the orks and eldar like specifically back then when the Old Ones were still keeping them in check? No one knows. The Orks might have had even nastier weapons back then. The Eldar certainly did. We know the Orks had some kind of BRAIN BOYZ around. I've read that before this thread, but this is the first time I heard it suggested the brain boyz were the Old Ones themselves rather than another type of Ork. No one knows what the Brain Boyz were except a vague idea that the Orks used to be better organized with the Brain Boyz around.

>> No.11536450

>>11536401

And lots of this shit has been retconned. Humans are also the spawns of Malal (no longer in existence due to who owned the IP) and the Deciever.

The thing with the gretchin and snotlings haven't been mentioned since it was revealed that they were created as a weapon against the Necron, and so on.

But seriously, all things point towards that the Ork general psychic gestalt shapes reality.

>> No.11536455

>>11536450
>But seriously, all things point towards that the Ork general psychic gestalt shapes reality.

See when you say that? And someone asks why? You need to actually -list- the things.

>> No.11536463

>>11536455

But we aren't allowed to use Lexicanum as a source, since it is 'unreliable'.

So, I say. Fuck you, and fuck this thread.

>> No.11536466

>>11536359
Forget it.

I'm already stepped aside. I'm discussing OLD ONES now. I got tired of people doing the exact thing you are blaming them for. Bringing up technological examples despite me saying that's the exact kind of thing that technomancy would fall under.

And I'm only using technomancy as a loose word for what's going on. I wouldn't know what to actually call it. So sorry if anyone had anything against that specific phrase.

In the end it doesn't fucking matter. 40k is full of propoganda, rule of cool, grim dark, and PURPOSEFUL misrepresentations of the truth. That last one? Well, first person accounts of what happen.. being put forward as truth.. but then first person accounts have been proven to be bullshit a few times. You have to dig through ALL of that to piece together some semblance of hard truth for the setting.. and it isn't worth it. Sometimes shit just happens in 40k cause it is awesome or dark. Sometimes there is an actual reason. Sometimes the original setting just thought the idea was funny as fuck(originally 40k was a comedy/parody).

It's dumb to try sorting it all out. I'm just going to step aside and accept that shit happens in 40k all the time.

>> No.11536467

>>11536375

Nonono, sorry to be unclear: I don't just remember that, I also remember the blue paint save rule. I just remember that as a story accompanying it.

>> No.11536498

>>11536463
All the stuff pulled from Lexicanum has been technology based anyway.

>>11536467
Damn, I wish I knew the source. Thanks anyway.

>> No.11536508

>>11536463
Dude.

You can use it.. but make sure they have a source THEY are citing for their info. I never said wikis shouldn't be used at all. I said they are useful for being able to track down the sources THEY use. Which you should be doing under most circumstances anyway. Wiki's are notorious for shortening things too much.. or extrapolating an opinion from other information and presenting it as fact.

it's not that hard, is it? The wiki even lists the sources right after everything and links it into the article for easy reference. Refusal to even click a link is just saying you don't care about your position at all. Which just makes me question if you believe what you're posting.

Captcha is.. TECTONIC STROMBOLI

Sounds.. orkish?

>> No.11536525

>>11536508
Lexicanum has a tendency to have true information with bad linking though, so you are not being entirely fair. It's not like there's a way to confirm without it though.

>> No.11536530

>>11536498
All the -examples- have been technology based. The lexicanum page on Waagh however states;

>This field allows Orks to instinctively recognize who is 'bigga' and therefore, in charge.

This implies the growth of orks is psychic in nature, as bigger orks are instinctively recognized through the Waaagh as being the bosses.

>> No.11536534

>>11536344
>Ork current weapons are probably considerably degenerated from the original examples.

It makes me fearful. Orks even more powerful than they are now? With better tactics from brain boys no less.

As if Orks weren't already completely and totally balls. I can only imagine what fully OLD ONE SUPPORTED Orks must have looked like. The Eldar certainly fell a long fucking ways from where they were in the Old One days.

Would Orks have fallen a comparable amount? That's insane.

>> No.11536611

>>11536525
Hm, I suppose.

But again it doesn't matter. >>11536466 Just going to link rather than repeat myself.

One thing that should be said though.. 40k used to be a much looser setting. It was all just a big dark humor gag, and the Orks in particular retain pretty much all of their silliness from that era. Why did red make it go fastah? Probably because it was hilarious. Why does the Waaaaaaugh make 'em bigger? That's totally awesome. A big ork warband that grows bigger as it comes to kill you just from them psyching themselves out.

On an entirely meta level.. they probably never put any reason behind the orks beyond "that's damn awesome." There might indeed be some kind of do anything waugh power.. but I doubt the orks were written with that intent.

They're just supposed to be silly and over the top green battle beasts.

>> No.11536612

>>11536534
Probably not, no. I just figure you probably got much more destructive and well-equipped Ork armies more regularly.

The whole savage Orkz > standard Ork clan thing was probably still used as a weapon. And they were still a primitive race.

>> No.11536632

>>11536611
That's absolutely spot on.

>"that's damn awesome."
Is pretty much all of 40k, it just used to take the piss out of itself more.

>> No.11536673

>>11536612
Hm, well it's my understanding the Orkz were made by the Old Ones specifically because they don't need to be supplied all that much. They can rip up the surrounding area and make whatever they can from scraps. They needed a weapon they didn't have to keep supplied or specific tabs on. You just let 'em loose and they'll always take a chunk out of the enemy even if they don't win.

Don't need food. Don't need supplies. Just need DAH WAAAAAAGH. They'll cannibalize the surrounding planet and have at it. Sort of like.. greener goofier Tyranids.

>Tyranids Might be running from something rather than going for food
>Imperium pointed scanners outside the galaxy and only got ORKZ ORKZ ORKZ

Hmm...

>> No.11536689

>>11536673
Yeah, that's why I'm arguing Ork tech probably isn't Old One tech. They don't have a 'set' tech pattern, they're cannibalistic.

>> No.11536759

>>11536689
Well, depends on if you buy into the genetic memory bit.

The orks tend to come up with things that clearly aren't cannibalized. They have to come from somewhere, and it seems to imply they do actually have SOME grasp of technological workings.. either innate or learned. They still produce all this crap themselves anyway even if they do steal the original designs. They'd have to learn how to build them themselves, and people here seem to get violent when you start suggesting an ork is smart enough to even tie their own shoe laces.

>> No.11536777

>>11536759
It's difficult to imagine a design adaptable enough that it can be made similarly from any source material and equipment, but that is apparently how STC's worked, so maybe the Orks are a kind of biological STC.

>Neurobiology, enamels
Or maybe they have enamel templates in their brains.

>> No.11536821

>>11536673
>Hm, well it's my understanding the Orkz were made by the Old Ones specifically because they don't need to be supplied all that much. They can rip up the surrounding area and make whatever they can from scraps. They needed a weapon they didn't have to keep supplied or specific tabs on. You just let 'em loose and they'll always take a chunk out of the enemy even if they don't win.
I always assumed the Orks were programmed with how to repair the gear the Old Ones would give them, and the look of Ork technology is down to them attempting to build vehicles entirely from scratch via 'repairs'- a huge pile bolted-on plates, scrap and gubbins with no 'original' underneath.

>> No.11536846

>>11536777
Well.. Old Ones.

Who knows? I've heard it suggested it could be a testament to Old One knowhow when their tech still works when held together with bits of string, spit, and a rock that was used to bash together two rusty pieces of metal.

All I know is I want my own lightning gun.

>> No.11536901

>>11536821
It could be a list of reasons. Their innate build everything from nothing nature, slipshod repairs, and just generally awful aesthetic values on top of it doesn't lead to pretty.

But then look at real world tech. Everything you see is generally just the current aesthetic. Your computer case being sleek and smooth has absolutely nothing to do with how it performs as a machine. Your car is styled the way it is because of modern sensibilities. Sure, aerodynamics enters into it too, but there is a wide variety of odd things you can do that are still sufficiently aerodynamic for a car. Similarly, both devices function fine without their outer case. Both have internal metal frames which everything is mounted on.

..Now it makes me wonder what the ork tech looks like with all the rusty plates on the outside stripped off.

>> No.11536911

>>11536901
I imagine it's pretty rugged, stripped-down and practical, in the mould of shit like the AK.

>> No.11536948

Sorry its so late, but I can confirm that lootas, in the previous codex, could take blue paint for 5 pts per model and get a 6+ invulnerable save. May have been more than just lootas, but that's what I took it on.

Saved my squad a few times.

>> No.11536957

>>11536948
That wasn't in the previous codex. You might be thinking of Deathskull Warbosses in the clan supplement. (Bad Moon Warbosses could take a Kustom Mega-blasta for *free*).

>> No.11537029

>>11536911
>Orks
>practical

THE HELL YOU SAY!

>> No.11537064

Ok, I don't know why but the red paint thing is bugging me. I'm not gonna argue technomancy or other bullshit, but the reason that "red ones go fasta" is because in reality, the human eye detects red objects as moving faster. This has some physics bullshit to do with the light spectrum and various speeds of the wavelengths.

If an ork eye worked like a human eye, they would see the red ones as moving faster, and then believe the paint made it happen (as opposed to being an optical illusion), thus the psychic field would work and actually make the red one go faster.

>> No.11537985

>>11537029
Orks are nothing but practical

>> No.11538167

>>11537985
This.

There's even an exert about it from an eldar's (unique) point of view.

>> No.11538227

>>11536821
Wrong, Ork Meks are born knowing how to build the same basic chassis and motars for trukks and Battlewagons.

So if you give a Mek raw material for bulding a trukk from scratch, what comes out will look remarkably simmilar to human pickup truck. Eventually the boy who buys it will begin to haphhazardly adorn it with gaudy decorations and paintjobs after the Mek slaps a coat of primer on it.

But the problem is that they're working witch bits of scrap and left over vehicles, and while they can fit it to their purposes, they can not produce the raw materials to produce the trukks that would look good to non-orks. But then they just don't care.

So what you have is a Mek Boy who can produce an F-X50 series chassiy and turn it into their own creation, some make trukks, other make flatbeds, others make SUVs.

>> No.11538317

>>11537064
Not only that, but their laten psyker powers which we'll jut call technomancy, despite not being drawn from the warp, basically works down to the molecular level of their machines. It keeps their engine running a tiny bit cooler to allow that brief explosion of speed by holding the melocular bonds together just a tiny bit longer.

A regular ork's psychic abilities only manifest on machines, probably a trait given to them by the Old ones to enable them to work with their technology without having a real need to understand it, given their suicidally aggressive personalities, they'd otherwise just break it.

Meks do know what they're doing and spend much of their time tinkering and inventing new things. Just recently they invented teleportation technology that, despite being unreliable, took the humans by utter surprise because they had just assumed that they were incapable of such feats.

>> No.11538334

>>11537985
yup

even their animals have uses

>> No.11541622

>>11536248

>these weapons is not unreliable in the hands of an ork

Mefinks an ork may have had a hand in writing this.

Captcha: forums woven

>> No.11542206

it always astounds me how little knowledge there seems to be about 40k fluff and lore, even among so called 'sanctioned writers' (dont give me that 'doop whatever they write is now cannon' bullshit)

at their very core, orcs were made to be self sufficient, they create their own ecosystem wherever they go, a casted society with varied creatures filling all nessisary specialisations, basic knowledges ingrained on an instinctual level, allowing immediate utilisation while still capable of learning new things, and if they survive, will keep getting bigger and smarter, to what limit know one knows, and hopefuly will not have to find out.
and, most pertinent to this discussion, they do not utilize the warp like eldar, a dangerous liability, but rather they create pshychic field, individualy its very small and faint, but it scales exponentialy in power and size as you add more and 'bigga' orcs to the mix, this warp-like energy allows them to manifest phenomena with regularity that would attract serious warp attention for a psycker were he to attempt the same, the most famous of this is of course the operation of otherwise ramshackle machinations.
now many people here seem to be confused to the actual limit to this power, try, if you can, to understand that the warp itself is comprised of the whole breadth of sentient creatures, whereas only orcs generate and utilize their gesault field, like psyckers there are those among the orcs that are more sensitive to it and can more directly utilise its energies, (wyrdboys), and like the warp it is influenced by the collective thought and emotion of its inhabitants, thus i hope it is simple to understand how the 'clap your hands if you belive' nature of orcs, because it works the exact same way with other sentient creatures through the warp( with more danger of those thoughts and emotions being subverted by the entities that dwell there...) , the only difference here, is that the orcs are, as ever, self-sufficient.

>> No.11542293

>>11542206
You spelled so much shit totally wrong in that post that I don't even give a shit if you're right or not.

>> No.11542662

Ok, I just had an epiphany. Get this, ork weapons have been established to either be unreliable (trukks, shootas, sluggas, etc) or completely inoperable (shokk attack gun, teleporta, zzap cannon) when not in the presence of orks. What if the reasons for this were two fold? The orks' psychic field (not the warp, hencefourth called the Waaagh) may very well be improving the weapons, but what if the weapons themselves (espacially the more complex ones that don't work at all once humans get them) were made to actually use the Waaagh as a power source, much in the same way the eldar use warp tech?

It would stand to reason that the old ones would give the orks tech that was at least comparable to eldar tech in that both were made to fight the 'crons and their masters, and orkish tech powered by Waaagh could have been an experiment into a less-risky warp tech alternative that would have still been devastating to the necrons.

>> No.11545040

Orks rule.

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