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[ERROR] No.11353000 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

I'm gettign tired of 40k and thinking of starting warhammer army.
what army is good for beginnners to warhammer.
tier list would help also.

>> No.11353024

also i heard lizardmen have best magic skills

>> No.11353048

Your pic says it for you.

>> No.11353078

Whichever one captures your imagination the most!!

Glad to hear it OP you've taken your first steps into a wider world

>> No.11353113

Any army is viable, so research and find which one sounds fun/looks cool to you.

Do be warned though: Tomb Kings, Wood Elves, and Orcs and Goblins are VERY hard to use, but when used properly are just as good as everything else.


>> No.11353115


I was thinking chaos warriors but in 40k I played CSM and I'm tired of serving the dark gods. Thinking Skaven but some of there stuff looks alittle silly.

>> No.11353125


>> No.11353181

Skaven worship the dark lords too, OP.

Join the high elves.

>> No.11353186


....but they look silly.

>> No.11353211


How bout lizardmen

They look like the can throw down with the best of them. What good skills/tricks do thy have up there sleeves?

>> No.11353244

I'd go Bretonnians personally as they are awesome or maybe wood elves tho as a rule I've never been a big elf fan. The big 'beginner' armies in Fantasy, at least a few years back, are Empire and Orks they're pretty much the Spess Mehreens and... Orks of 40k

>> No.11353259

>space marines

what? empire focus on hordes and artillery.

>> No.11353262


They have the lowest Initiative in the game (with their Saurus guys anyway). This wasn't a big deal in 7th, where charging made you attack first, but in 8th, you'll never be attacking with Saurus first. Ever. Literally impossible.

That said, their Magic is STRONG. The Slann are some of the best casters in the game, second only to Teclis of the High Elves.

>> No.11353264

Slann are kick-ass wizards
I suggest you take a look at the empire... maybe you like one of their knight's orders and build an army around one?

>> No.11353265

Fuck yes, finally a FB thread!

By the way, go with whatever army you that suits you the most, read about them. Pretty much all the armies are over-the-top clichee, but at least it's clichee done the right way, in a grim and gothic manner.

Personally: Vamps, Dwarves, Empire and Wood Elves are god tier, but all armies are great in their own way.

>> No.11353274

what do empire have that makes them good?

>> No.11353294

Actually, only artillery. Empire is basically "shoot whatever you got just please don't let them come near us", and if played right, they can kick ass. But Empire is complicated to play, definitely nothing for beginners since they're sort of like a glass-canon army.

>> No.11353297

artillery and jack of all trades wizards

>> No.11353308

this happened to me recently and I started dwarfs just cause so do that

>> No.11353310


>> No.11353318

lizardmen were pretty awesome in bloodbowl, why was their agility so low though? They're fucking lizards, not ogres

>> No.11353323


I'd think Daemons would have good magic since they're warp based.
Is this a misconception?

>> No.11353326


The big thing about Empire is that they can compete in any phase. Their melee is good because they have regiments which flank their opponents. Their shooting is good because they get access to some very cool weaponry (the Rocket Battery KILLS in this edition). Their magic is good because they have access to all 8 Lores of Magic.

They're just a great army all around.

Also, puffy pants are awesome.

>> No.11353329

also core cavalry with an 1+ armour safe, decent infantry, lots of artillery and very versatile wizards

>> No.11353339


I like that.
They field fire-ing squads.
what about magic?
any good spells and such?

>> No.11353352


A little.

They can certainly compete in magic, but they're not as good as a Slann (and especially not as good as Teclis, who as of this edition is the most powerful special character in the game).

>> No.11353354

this is correct, deamons of chaos are the only army with a unit that can cast spells (disregarding a chosen champion with the book of secrets)

>> No.11353368

access to all 8 lores, and the new spells are really strong

>> No.11353381


is that good?
it sounds good since there the only ones that can do that though

>> No.11353389

knights suck though this edition

>> No.11353412


Parachute pants you say?

>> No.11353435

daemons were among the top tier armies in 7th, so I think they are still very good.
Due to changes to the magic phase, their dominace there may be somewhat less but they still have very good options nontheless (bloodletters got a nice boost with the new supporting attacks).
Also a bunch of new models are about to be released

>> No.11353439



Also, kick ass but dangerous artillery, the rest is bunch of German Reichsoldiers and wicked Wizards.

>> No.11353459


That's the only German sentence I know by the way, and I learned it off /tg/, to this day I'm not entirely sure what it means and I'm too lazy to google-translate it.

>> No.11353461


Empire seems like Imperial guard of 40k......or vice versa.

gotta start thinking fantasy now

>> No.11353472

"yeah franz let's dance in our leather trousers"

>> No.11353496


there spells suck in 40k but it seems they have alot more tricks/tactics in 40k.

Dam, big difference between 40k and fantasy. Fantasy looks alot more strategic.

>> No.11353508


wait what?!

>> No.11353517

And then Franz was a lederhose

>> No.11353531


fantasy=mature audience

>> No.11353545

I play both, what does that make me?

>> No.11353552

Yeah, sorry its 3 am over here... obviously someone wants to dance with some Franz while wearing stylish leather trousers...
looks like I got something wrong...

>> No.11353556


>> No.11353564


>> No.11353598


>> No.11353609


the people runnign gw or probably sleeping on millions from the money they make on their overprive miniatures

>> No.11353658

To be fair, 40k gets a whole lot more (mainstream) attention than FB, and usually means shitheaded communites / players.

>> No.11353679

I always wondered, are the minis so expensive because they're expensive to make or just because GW is such a greedy bastard company? I mean producing those minis takes probably more money and effort than you'd think.

>> No.11353684

do skinks still get poison on their bows/ blowpipes/javelin
and do the saurus infantry still get spears 2 attacks each and a 4+save

>> No.11353698

Here is my personal opinion on the tier list.

Inb4, troll list, idiot, my taste: god tier your taste: shit tier, ect.

All the armies are completely different from one another. Find one that interests you and try it out. If you don't like it try another one.

>> No.11353716


well, it take 8 dollars worth of plastic to make a 50 dollar tank

>> No.11353749

They are expensive because GW has its entire fanbase by the balls with a powerfist.

>> No.11353758


I still remember days when FB was mainstream, and 40k was considered as niche

>> No.11353769

try 30 cents. They make next to no money on books and there employees probably work for alot of money. Plus endless copyright things to deal with. GW has to make money some where.

>> No.11353770

When was that? 94?

>> No.11353788


God, i remember that too...

>> No.11353803


I actually find your tier list to be really helpful.
I was thinking of starting empire and now i am.
thank you info tier

>> No.11353812


>>employees probably work for alot of money

>> No.11353835


that makes sense and is reasonable.

>> No.11353838

how does Skaven magic stand in 8th?

>> No.11353839

Little warning before you jump into empire.

It is really popular and probably one of the more played army's right now. I don't know if you care about that or not but I know I don't like Space Marine syndrome.

>> No.11353850


something like that.

>> No.11353862


ah, i know what you mean.

well, back to square one then.

>> No.11353863

Skaven has its own magic lore?

>> No.11353875


I'm just not seeing it. I hardly ever see Empire at a FLGS around here.

>> No.11353912

lores of Ruin and Plague

>> No.11353913

Really? 2/3 Fantasy players I know play Empire.

And most the people that I known that want to get into the game talk about playing them. Hell, it was the first army's i wanted to play.

>> No.11353926


which army has the best pikemen?

>> No.11353949


>> No.11353972

That is (tentatively) one of the best tier lists I've seen for 8e. And I guess by that I mean it matches my feelings about it the best. A few I might move one tier up or down but overall I agree.

Empire are no where near space marine levels (no army is). I'm not even sure they are the most played, but they are top 5.

An individual model is very cheap to produce but the molds are expensive. They have a lot of infrastructure (read, stores) to support and a relatively low sales volume due to being a frivolous luxury item. They are reaming you on the individual mini profit margins but if they didn't its likely they wouldn't survive. If you read their releases to stock holders they talk about this sort of thing (and no you don't have to be a stock holder to read them).

>> No.11353990

no, but seriously, which army has the bet pikemen?

>> No.11353995

They tend to have wide appeal because they can compete in every phase, but they are very far from space marine popularity, and army saturation varies widely from store to store. I've talked to people that have no empire players at their stores.

>> No.11354012


I imagine it is still somewhat regional. Do we know overall what the high sellers are, army wise in Fantasy? We all know Marines are #1 in 40k but I would be curious to know where where the armies in Fantasy are. I imagine High Elves to be up there as I see them quite frequently.

>> No.11354047

Dogs of war have the only pikemen which haven't had anything new for them since 6e (its 8e now) and almost certainly never will. The best spearmen are high elves (if you mean absolute best, they aren't amazing for how much they cost) or probably goblins from an efficiency stand point. But be warned, spears don't perform like you would expect them to (they aren't particularly good defensive weapons).

>> No.11354079

I played Empire in 6th and briefly in 7th edition...a good Jack of all trades army.

I've always wanted to start a Tomb Kings army but they get so little love from GW, I always stayed away.

>> No.11354081

From conversations with others and personal experience I would say HE, Empire, and Warriors of Chaos populate the top three sales spots. Take that for what you will.

>> No.11354090


A quick find, according to this I was fairly wrong.

>> No.11354097

New book soon, you should start up when it comes out.

>> No.11354128


Surprisingly I mostly agree with this list. Though the difference between highest tier and high tier isn't as great as the high tier to mid tier. And yes TG, VC aren't that good anymore.

>> No.11354136

Thats from tournaments. Unfortunately, most people realize that if they want to win tournaments they have to play DoC (or did). No big surprise that the top 3 best armies are the top 3 most popular.

In fact that chart is actually an almost perfect tier list for 7e.

>> No.11354173


That isn't army popularity based on sales but army popularity based on people who showed up for the Grand Tournament.

>> No.11354174

Great Scot! You're right!

>> No.11354175

>New GW book for TK

Define soon...

>> No.11354191

Within the year.

>> No.11354192

Supposedly before the year is out.

>> No.11354248

Awesome...I'm gonna buy my some skellies next payday.

>> No.11354278

Yes, yes, and yes.
That said, spear saurus kind of get boned with supporting attacks, since unlike their closest comparable unit, Chaos warriors, you lose the second attack from each model in the second and third rows, where as Warriors can at least compensate by improving their strength or number of attacks per model. Also, higher weapon skill/initiative.
Saurus are still viable, but neither Warriors, Temple Guard, or Cold one cav have a lot of versatility. That were you have to bring in Skink-monster shenanigans.

>> No.11354343

Or a Slann which is probably the best caster in the game now and actually earns his points back.

>> No.11354452

Yeah he fights the Book of Hoeth Archmage for title of best non-special character mage. Actually he definitely wins that fight. He just costs significantly more.

>> No.11354590

Honestly, after my first and only fielding of a 400 point slann, watching only three spells go off in four turns (I might have had a fourth that was dispelled), my perception of them is significantly negative. Of course, I was rolling horribly that whole game.
Also, lore of Life, or Light for Slann? Light has a very nice number of buff spells, but I feel that Life's special ability is more useful when I don't run him in a unit bunker.

>> No.11354594

This has been a good fantasy thread so far. Almost no bitching and a tier list that seems to have pissed no one off.

>> No.11354712

Life. Unfortunately that seems to be the answer to most "which lore" questions. It has a combination of amazingly good support spells with good damage spells and the most reliable miscast protection in the game. I'm a bit disappointed at how good life is compared to the other lores, I'll still use shadow or heavens when I feel I can swing it but if I was going against a hard opponent I'd alway bring life.

If you can make a non-life lore work for you though, do so. It'll make you stand out at least.

>> No.11354724


Unit buffs and raising models is really good for a tough grinding army lizards tend to be. Besides, the skinks have enough offensive magic from the new lore of heavens. I personally take a hypno toad and a EoTG skink priest with the extra spell. All 7 lore of life spells and 3 lore of heavens spells is a great magic phase indeed.

>> No.11354731

Fuck yea they are expensive.

That add one free powerdice to each cast though is just amazing. You can effectively make your opponent burn 3 dispell dice to your 1.

I just had a game earlier today were my slann was getting his spells of almost undisputed. I cast Throne of vines, Regrowth, Awakening of the woods, Flesh to stone, and shield of thorns all in the same magic phase.

I had 10 power dice and he had 6 dispell dice. I used 4 and got one free to try to cast dwellers from bellow on his horde of elves so he used all 6 to dispell it. After that I just used 1 dice + the free one to cast every other spell that's under a 10 casting value.

Something similar happened in 3 phases that game and the game I had played before.

Unless you are spamming warrior priests you simply don't have enough dispel dice to match a Slann anymore.

>> No.11354961

My favorite set up.

Those Temple Guard are taking cold blooded rerollable LD9 moral checks.

They will die down to the last man, I guarantee it.

>> No.11354962

Not a fan of Engines right now, just due to percentages a priest like that leaves me with no combat hero. Though if I was facing massive shooting/undead, I might give it a whirl. I am running a harass skink though. Extra spell and cloak of feathers. Fun times.
Initiative and WS 10 saurus would be mean though, but so are T8 warriors.
Lizards hate Shadow. So much. Death isn't too kind either with the Purple Sun of go fuck yourself.

>> No.11355077

Why the Divine Plaque if he is in a bunker unit? Without it that is still only one-in-twelve of every template shot actually hurting him.

>> No.11355079


Which version of Army Builder is that? the one on /rs/ is outdated...

>> No.11355137

No I wouldn't necessarily recommend shadow (or even heavens) to lizard players. I play HE. Those are my 3 favorites this edition for whatever reason. Lore of light is bad for us just due to it being redundant in a lot of cases. Its much better for lizzies (shitty I no more!) but I still think life outshines it.

>> No.11355192

What magic is good for Empire?

>> No.11355196

It's army builder EX. I actually went and bought it, rather beautiful I might add.

1 in 12? He only gets a look out sir normally. I give him the +2 wardsave with mainly cannons in mind. Also the rest of his options for enchanted items are pretty crap so why not make him even more range impervious for just 30 points?

I would have to agree, for lizardmen at least, Life is the way to go. That 2+ miscast removal is also a god send to save your Templeguard from your Slann being mind raped. I have seen 14 of them blow up in 1 magic phase.

>> No.11355268

>a tier list that seems to have pissed no one off.
That's because we've seen it before, and know it's not worth arguing about. Personally, from what I have read, seen, and experienced, it is completely and totally wrong. WoC should be top tier, pushing Empire down, and Ogres should definitely be High. That's just some of the problems

>> No.11355305

You know... When I first got into the hobby the GW redshirt I talked too asked me one thing... What is the coolest model you see?

And that happened to be tyranid models. Pick the one you think is the coolest. If you dont like the models you wont like playing the game.

>> No.11355306

Funny warhammer stories from now on.

I'd been using teclis with shadow magic and using spell number one to run away from a blood thirster all game. Finally he'd caught up to me and Teclis took refuge in a building with a group of 15 archers. The blood thirster killed the first 9 archers but teclis stayed due to steadfast from buildings. During my magic phase i had we got a full twelve dice, I gave all but 4 to my lizardman team mate. His slann and skink priests went about their castings and i cast the mind razer on my sword masters my daemon playing opponent thinking it was a last sacrificial move before teclis went down and got turned to blood pulp. He was unaware of the shadow school ability, two seconds later where teclis stood a lonely level 1 skink priest had appeared. The high Elves failed me that day, but Teclis endured, Teclis always endures.

>> No.11355312

Ogres high? Do you play this game?

I Also thought warriors of Chaos were high tier too. Than I played them twice and saw them played. Not even close.

>> No.11355377

rolled 13 = 13


TK needs to be under I TOO ONCE LOVED tier.

>> No.11355402

I've got a couple of questions. Did GW stop supporting Kislev because it wasn't popular, or is there some other reason to it? Any possibility Kislev would be redone?

>> No.11355429

OP is probably gone but my tip for beginners is Dwarves. They have a very 'defensive' gameplay but are still unique and versatile enough to be fun to play. Also, they're goddamn Dwarves.

>> No.11355437

Dwarfs need to be High Tier as well. They're really really good now.

>> No.11355499

Well their special character is a metal wizard and he is pretty good, he flits about on a pegasus. It depends on whether its a lord caster or a hero caster and the composition of the rest of your army. Empire is one of those armies that you don't know a ton about a list just by knowing though army (though I'd expect a fair amount of artillery).

>> No.11355512

No, I was saying Lizards hate Shadow being cast at them.
As for heavens, well, I'm stuck with that, and thank you very much Mr. Ward for locking us at three cheap level 2 wizards max.
No, he has a 4+ ward normally as well, so out of twelve shots that get "Look out sir!" 2 get through on average, and 1 is stopped by the ward on average. The D6 doesn't take effect until you don't make the save. So again, only one in twelve cannon shots actually hit him.
Granted, I always give him Higher state of consciousness, so it is even more annoying to hurt him.

>> No.11355566

I agree but it is only a one tier move and I don't feel that strongly about it.

>> No.11355601

Like I said bro, it's 30 points so, why not? Grab it AND high state.

>> No.11355610

You know, I WTF'd when I saw they had slaan as a normal infantry model, but now I realize they did it purely because of the new LoS! rules.

>> No.11355639

A lot of the armies seem to be quite competitive now.

The old tier list shook out like it was because fear was -so- powerful, it completely overmatched whole armies. Armies with a lot of fear-causing units won, and that's all there was to it. Now fear isn't nearly as nasty, and so a lot of armies that weren't competitive before can work now.

On top of that, lots of individual stuff got buffed. Big blocks of infantry have a huge advantage (and some armies have dirt-cheap infantry). War machines got a big advantage with the end of "guess range". ("Why have a dog and bark yourself?" It actually says that in the rulebook now...)

Cavalry... didn't get nerfed exactly, but its ability to do what it did (i.e. crash through one unit and then rape rape rape through the flanks) isn't as powerful now (you need a hell of a lot of horses to disrupt an enemy unit, and without being disrupted, a steadfast infantry unit takes a LOT of killing.)

But you need to like the army you pick; if you get one based on "ooh, it does well", you probably won't ever finish building it. A small, elite fantasy army has a model count near a horde army of 40K. A horde army in Fantasy can have a silly-huge number of models, each one of which you're gonna have to assemble (and, one day, paint... gulp).

>> No.11355644

I want to recreate the army Cortez used to bring down the Aztec Empire in Warhammer Fantasy, re-imagined as a mercenary army returning from Lustria filthy rich and hoping to use their fame to get even richer. I've been thinking about doing this for a while now, so I've already narrowed the field of possible armies that will work to one, The Empire. Now, the plan is to obtain a list of what Cortez brought with him (not hard, since I have been reading a book written about it by one of his lieutenants, as well as the Black Library book inspired by it) and to find the closest equivalent in WHFB. Then I'll buy the units and customize them with Lizardmen bits and brass accents. In the end, I think it will turn out well, but I need your help, /tg/. First, what I have so far.

Obviously the Empire would have to have a reason for invading Lustria in the first place, and I'm going to guess gold is the best. Since the greediest leader I could think of would be a noble of some kind, what do you think of a Captain of the Empire for a general? It doesn't seem right to send a full General of the Empire, but whatever you guys think. For a guide the army would need someone that's already been to the New World, and thanks to the mirror-like aspects of Warhammer we already have a Cortez stand-in in the form of Fernando Pirazzo and his Lost Legion, taken from the Dogs of War books. This will be a fluffy army, so no need to worry about it not being entirely tournament legal. We can worry about unit size later, but I'm guessing the Captain will bunker down with Pirazzo and his pikes.

>> No.11355664

Now, in Cortez' expedition he had one cannon, around five light cavalry swordsmen, a main core of infantry swordsmen, a small number of handgunners, and the rest being crossbowmen. Also there was a significant presence of priests to convert the local heathens. What kind of stuff would fit those the best? I'm not an Empire player as of yet, so I honestly don't know. I just now downloaded the (awful) .pdf of their army book.

>> No.11355712

I still love you TK
i will alwasy love you...no matter how hard the beatings are

>> No.11355770

It's a fair point, was just curious. Now, if you -really- want to fuck with your opponent and make an unkillable slann, Higher state, Unfathomable presence (Magic resistance 3), divine plaque, and 18 temple guard (command optional) with Chakax. Of course, with FR and FoM, that is a unit that costs 1,093 points minimum, but again, your slann is never going to die from the enemy.

>> No.11355795

Well, cannons, swordsmen, handgunners, and crossbowmen have direct analogues. There are also warrior priests of sigmar that would fit the priests quite well (they are heroes/lords though so you can't have many). As far as light cav swordsmen, all their light cav have guns, and all the only other cavalry are rather heavy. Closest would be knightly orders though (aforementioned heavy cav).

>> No.11355805

Never taken my friends Slann out...
Ever. 2+ ward to Ranged weapons, and i can never kill enough TG

>> No.11355837

Start using dwellers, purple sun, or pit of shades. Thats about all you have available.

>> No.11355847

What magic is good for Empire?

>> No.11355868

...i have...Incantations

yes...that will...

>> No.11355888


Only use Knights.

Pure fucking win

>> No.11355968

see >>11355499

Your fucked bro. Sorry. Best bet is to learn to deal with the hot dickings the slaan gives you and work around it.

Do priest give any bonus to dispel at all?

>> No.11356010

yeah, of course (it was faq/errated...im not paying 245 points for a naked mage that doesnt get a fucking + to dispel....even though its only a +3)

>> No.11356018


I use beasts. Make a unit of guys +1T +1S, make a warrior priest get +3S +3 attacks, curse a unit so everything is hit at -1 and every terrain is difficult to it on a 1 and 2. Oh yeah, TURN YOUR WIZARD INTO A FUCKING DRAGON.

>> No.11356044

does Warhammer Fantasy rely on hiding behind cover as much as WH40k? Like I see in OP's pic, no one is hiding behind anything other than the units in front of them. Is this how all battles are?

>> No.11356060

I really like the beasts signature spell but I don't care much for the others. Amber spear and anraheirs or whatever are passable. The single character buffs don't seem important enough to me, and transformation of kadon is a trap.

>> No.11356109

In 7e if you were behind an enemy unit you couldn't be shot unless there was a height difference (you or enemy on a hill) or you are a large target. In 8e we've moved to TLoS so there goes that. Now you get hard cover from being behind units (-2 to range to hit rolls) and soft cover from hiding behind things like forests and bushes (same but -1).

>> No.11356110

Cover gives
-1/-2 to shooting
and helps avoid certain spells

>> No.11356144


Cover makes it harder to hit you, so generally its good for keeping your guys alive, but many units have issues with most terrain being dangerous if they try to do anything but walk through it.

>> No.11356159

What army has good pikemen?

>> No.11356185

Cover just blocks line of sight, and can grant soft or hard cover bonuses (so -1 and -2 to shooting, respectively).
That said, terrain plays a much more important role, with different types causing different effects (charging a unit "defending and obstecetle" for example causes you to have -1 to hit in CC, as well as certain units needing to take terrain tests). Then there are the magic terrains, such as forests that eat your units then run to a different spot, and altars that give you USRs when in range.

>> No.11356186

Don't know why I said enemy unit. Any unit. Led to people throwing a bunch of dogs out in front of their chaos knights to avoid being shot. It certainly wasn't perfect but I prefer it to TLoS and would have preferred it even more if they used their fancy new classification system to prevent retarded shit like knights hiding behind dogs.

Shooting in fantasy is less important, I should note. Even really shooty armies generally mop up the remains in CC, and shooty armies are more rare than in 40k.

>> No.11356212

Third time in one thread? Dogs of war have the only pikemen.

>> No.11356238

>and shooty armies are more rare than in 40k.

I would certainly fucking hope so, the game is only based around melee and fantasy.

>> No.11356263


There is only one single character buff IIRC. Spear is brutal against the right enemy, especially if you boost it through a flank of knights or something like that. I agree the transformation is a trap spell, but doesn't TG normally like traps?

Last night my opponent had a HE list with a dragon character, and 2 wizards, 1 high lore, the other beasts. First turn dragon with rider dies to a cannon. Turn 3 he turns his wizard into a dragon, my turn 4 it dies to a cannon.... Yeah, dragons aren't really all that hot against empire.

>> No.11356297


Yeah, i started this thread looking for an army that would be good for fantasy and decided on an army that might have pikeman.

who/what are dogs of war?

>> No.11356333

There are two, +3T and the +3S, +3A one. And then the "annoy them with crows" magic missile makes seven. I didn't even mention that one because it is so garbage.

>> No.11356345

And old mercenary system, legitimately, they are not usable anymore.

>> No.11356348


A defunct army that could be used as "mercenaries" in other lists if desired. It effectively was an Italian style empire army that had terrible characters and no redeeming characters. Its only highlight was "regiments of renown" which didn't suck like the rest of the list did.

>> No.11356362

They are mercenaries that have been pretty much dropped by GW, but the 6e army book is semi-compatible with 8e. So not a great choice to start with. There are plenty of armies with spears though.

>> No.11356381


so no more phalanx of pikeman?

>> No.11356400


>> No.11356409

yeah i play bretonnians and i think i'll be using life more often than beast.

though i must say buffing up a knight with the virtue of knightly temper, with that spell that gives +3a and +3s would be awesome. either that or buff up the knight with the heroic killing blow ability.

its either a lord with 7 attacks at st 7 that rolls another attack for every successful wound. or its a lord with 7 st 7 heroic killing blow attacks.

>> No.11356442

Well that's an easy choice.

Do you want him to kill dragons or kill units?

>> No.11356463

Anyone else find it weird that, so far, there are only two civilizations that embrace a, from a mechanical stand point, pretty simple weapon that can one-shot dragons?

>> No.11356504

oh i know its an easy choice.

I just like the fact that given the right conditions bretonnian characters can get really damn nasty.

>> No.11356522

technically the bretonnians use cannons too... they just use them on their ships and don't like using them on land for some reason.

>> No.11356566

Well my dragon had only a slight fear of cannons last edition so perhaps the other races will catch up when they hear about 8e.

>> No.11356576

You can't spell chivalry with a gun!

>> No.11356606

yeah but she's the lady of the lake, not the lady of the sea, so apparently the rules don't apply while on the high seas.

>> No.11356626

OP here,
I was wondering (since there arent' any pikemenunits in fantasy) which army has good ranged weaponry and has a few good units to repel enemies in close combat that try to outflank/bum rush my ranged units.
Any armies fit this description?
Empire seems good at ranged shooting but it looks like they get massacred in close combat.

>> No.11356637

Dwarfs to a t.

>> No.11356650

Really? The Darkblade books had them using trebuchets, but maybe I'm just forgetting the cannons.
Sure you can! Heck, I bet I could bet an imperial engineer to build a big gun with enough barrels arranged in such a manor as to spell 'chivalry' in the side of a wall with a single volley!

>> No.11356656


dwarfs seem pretty cool.
They have spell resistance to right?

>> No.11356681

I just played my second game of WHFB since 8th ed came out tonight... 2250, my Warriors of Nurgle vs her Dark Elves.

Bullshit ensued, my dice laughed at me, my hellcannon misfired for the 8th consecutive turn over the span of 2 games (I STILL haven't fired the thing correctly) and I somehow, out of pure luck, fought her to a shaky draw.


That said, Warriors of Chaos is actually a cool army... just not when your dice fuck you without lube.

>> No.11356704


>> No.11356730

Yep and until they get a new armybook they have some of the best magic defense points can buy. The changes to the magic phase left their entire magic defense in tact, meaning they get a lot more possible bonus dispel dice and dispel scrolls than they should, compared to the rest of the game.

>> No.11356748

I thought of starting WoC army for fantasy. Can you field a Daemon Prince for them?

>> No.11356765

> just not when your dice fuck you without lube.

If the dice hate you, your army choices matter not.

>> No.11356770

Yes, and the new plastic kit is out in like two weeks.

>> No.11356781


What are dispel dice/scrolls?

>> No.11356807

Dispel dice are dice you are given to prevent enemy spell casting. Everyone gets some, most armies can't buy many more than the default, dwarfs can. Dispel scrolls are one use items that autocancel a spell. Everyone else gets one per army, dwarfs can have unlimited (though its a dispel rune, technically).

>> No.11356832


Yeah, you can never go wrong with a DP in 40k.
Are hs statss god like or is he a pushover?

>> No.11356869

Generally daemon princes are considered to be not particularly good compared to the much less expensive chaos lord.

>> No.11356874


So the are the artillery/close combat/anti spellcaster army then?
do they have mobile or fast attack units or is that there weak point?

>> No.11356900



>> No.11356927


While Empire don't exactly have the best CC ability, being men and all, they do have the numbers to hold a line, and can win with flank charges and their detachment system. A big block of guys will have steadfast, and LD9 is pretty cheap for them... so you hold most of the time even when you lose as long as you have more ranks. Or you can take a unit of flagellents and use their unbreakable ability to tarpit the enemy. Or you can use the battle prayers to make a unit unbreakable. Empire greatswords are stubborn too, so they hold the line well enough (and wield S5 weapons)

>> No.11356943

Mobility is definitely their weak points. They get a gyrocopter which flies and miners which appear outside of deployment zones (similar to deep strike) but thats about it. They also have no calvary, and no magic. People also generally do not like playing against pure gunline armies, so I would recommend going at least 50% melee to make it interesting for the both of you.

>> No.11356969

Yeah, the DP doesn't actually have that much on the lord stat-wise. The lord already has god like stats, and the DP only has like one more wound and a few other things on him.

>> No.11356991


and there infantry are low point cost also?
hmm.....i'm stuck between empire and dwarfs. i like how dwarfs have the extra anti spell scrolls and the guns to back them up.

>> No.11357046

Empire guns are about equal to the dwarfs, for the most part. And no, dwarf infantry is expensive and elite. They also have army wide Ld 9 (which is ridiculously high for fantasy). So if you want more elite style units go for dwarfs, and if you want more horde style units and a chance to participate in the magic phase (other than saying "no") go empire.

>> No.11357049


Dwarfs are slow, their stunty legs unable to get their rather expensive units into combat in anything resembling their own terms. Their Initiative is also ass. They have no cavalry. They have no magic (only magic defense).

So an army unable to dictate the movement phase, can't really pick combats to fight, and forfeits the magic phase isn't exactly the most competitive army.

Their only good side is they have the best quality shooting in the game. Notice how I said quality.... Empire and skaven can bring more, just not as accurate and/or powerful.

If you play dwarfs, play them because you like how they look and the fluff behind them. Also always bring Bugman.

>> No.11357067


that sounds alittle off. has he been nerfed?
how do the hellcannons work? is it like a pie plate of individual hits against a unt

>> No.11357074

They a pretty competitive in 8e. Not as competitive as empire, but at the very least mid tier.

>> No.11357132


Sure, I agree with mid tier. Still not a good army. Mono build lists with only average competitiveness pretty much equals fail in my book. Back in 7th when empire was only mid tier, at least they had some variety if you wanted to play something other than gunline or block hammer.

>> No.11357160

play daemons so when u realize that fantasy sucks ass u can then have a 40K army

>> No.11357167

Isn't it a bit past your bedtime?

>> No.11357172


Well actually its not a bad model if you just look at the stats... But looking at the cost, then looking what else you can get for the same cost... It ends up like most of the WOC book, in the pile of units that cost too much compared to what you should be taking.

>> No.11357190


Daemons suck in 40k. Only good if you are lucky/playing a scrub

>> No.11357193

the worst part is that it isn't

>> No.11357220

Mid tier is best tier. Its the most heavily populated and thus you have the most possible matchups that will lead to interesting games.

No idea if its been nerfed from last edition. Hellcannon fires a small round template, strength 5 (10 under the hole, one model only) that automatically instills a panic test at -1. Its also very good in close combat (a very odd feature for a cannon). It also has to pass leadership checks not to "run" at shit every turn, and if it misfires it has its own ridiculous table that can help you and hurt you, but is generally skewed against you.

>> No.11357276

Lets go through this phase by phase:

Dwarves practically stay still, or move maybe 6". They can charge 3 + 2D6 now, so that is much better than the old 6".
Empire have M4 and cav units, so they can maneuver much better than dwarves.

Dwarves say NO. In caps, bolded, underlined, and 72 pt font. Thye don't participate, but any army but the most magically adept (Slann or Telicis really) won't get ANYTHING through if you don't let them.

Empire play in the magic phase like most armies. They can cast and dispell as normal, nothing exceptional here.

Dwarves use quality, Empire Quantity. That's about the only difference. Both can put out crazy amounts of Dakka.

Dwarves will almost always be going last, but with the option for great weapons and heavy armor in addition to T4, they can last that long then smash the enemy's face in. No real counter-attack ability, but you don't really need it.

Empire needs numbers, as T3 5+ save troops don't live that long alone. The normal infantry don't hit really hard either, so you either need large enough blocks to survive as the enemy gets slowly whittled down or you need to smash knights or greatswords into their flank to get them off your infantry. Additionally, the larger number of troop you need for this may get in the way of you shooting units, blocking LoS and giving the enemy hard cover.

>> No.11357289


Ok so dwarf are kinda off the list for now.

So the empire are the horde shooters. they bring alot of numbers for cheap and alot of guns also. the thing is they remind me alot of Imperial guard in 40k. I know i shouldn't be comparing the two because they are COMPLETLY different (kids game vs. strategy game) but what i've seen is that imperal guard can't stand ground against a dedicated horde cc army, like tyrinads and although the imperial guard holds most of them off from range it just not enough for the tyrinads continue running up the middle and outflank from table edge, eventually closing in and ending the game.

So my question hw do empire fair against dedicated mass CC army like lizard men of vampire cunts who come in at all angles.
Is there enough a backup cavalry that the empire has to counter attack with or do you have to rely soully on your infantrymen to fight themm off in cc?

>> No.11357336

Just played my first 8th ed game with my TKs. Even without our new book (so excited, they were my first army), we did get some small buffs in 8th. Magic changes, and volley fire especially help. Still, they're a very finesse army.

My opponent hit my Hierophant on turn one with a flaming-attack'd Cannon. GG.

>> No.11357345

Empire can survive with little to no shooting if they need to. They have the greatest variety in viable strategies of any army. CC hordes fall to template weapons.

>> No.11357387

Speaking of the various Lord choices... This tier list was made up a few days before the official release of 8th edition, and reflects which armies can create the very best Lord. For this purpose, "best" is defined as most killy against both units and characters. Characters pictured are ruled the best, too. For example, for the Chaos slot, it's a Chaos Lord that's pictured, not a Daemon Prince, so we're talking about the Chaos Lord

what do you guys think, still accurate?

>> No.11357388

Damn, sucks bro. He needs some look out sir action.

>> No.11357412


Empire have core heavy cav, special heavy cav and a good fast cav special choice. On top of that they also have a tank... yeah, its a steampunk tank, but a tank nonetheless. So they have some reasonable CC ability. The infantry is really to just deny movement zones and pin the enemy line so they can't use fancy and reckless tactics. They can also bog elite units down killing useless T3 guys who have steadfast or whose formation gives a free flank charge.

>> No.11357417

I made that list, so, I would have to agree.

>> No.11357426

Still think the lizzies one is a bit high. Also if we are talking about the best possible lord, shouldn't the pendant of inverse ward douchebaggery put DE higher?

>> No.11357444


Dwarfs may yet have a spot on my list.
that speed issue, though, is tough to get around.
i can already see myself getting massed and unable to move my troops into cc to support/repel another unit

>> No.11357463

It makes him damn near unkillable but considerably cripples his killing power.

He simply can't kill enough.

Also I could have sworn I made that shortly after 8th edition came out...

>> No.11357464

The Rapesaur, as it's called, is really, really powerful, and from what I've heard, third after the Chaos Lord and, most powerful of all, the Bloodthirster

goddamn, every time I post your list you show up :P

>> No.11357497

Well I'm usually in /tg/ and the only threads I join are the fantasy ones.

>> No.11357502

No, I distinctly remember, it was 2 days before the FAQs came out, which was one day before 8th edition released. I mean, I guess I could be mistaken

>> No.11357514

I don't know why, but Carni-lords never felt that good for me. The only time I've fielded one, he did demolish a unit of dwarf warriors, but that was from hitting them on the rear while my super-hard BSB smacked them in the front.
Though I probably didn't use him right.

>> No.11357523


I would rate the ogre tyrant a bit higher. Have had him win challenges against guys in the high and god tiers (sometimes with max res...) too often to not put him higher. Get him to T6-7, each attack does D3 wound, 5 attacks... yeah good times. On top of that he has quite a few wounds to work through. Only things I've had one shot him is a balesword GUO, and a bloodthirster buzzsaw build.

>> No.11357526

I rolled a one. Seriously put a damper on my plans, but it was just a friendly game and I did remarkably well. All you have to do is bunch up around your King/Prince and you'll do well. Only reason I actually ended up losing was a series of failed CoS saves in a challenge, Dwarf Lord on King. If I had won, his huge block of Warriors would have ended up breaking and I could have turned it around. Still, I had fun, and that's what matters.

>> No.11357536

The only other "shooty" army is wood elves. They have low hitting power shots, focus on mobility, and then have a few really hard hitting troops in the form of walking trees of various sizes. They are a very difficult army to use however, they have almost no CC ranked infantry ability (all their good melee is big shit or skirmishers, the only exception is eternal guard which is expensive and not amazing for the points). A lot of their unit's only notable attribute is amazing mobility (see wild riders, waywatchers with their crazy deployment).

>> No.11357543

The requirement for both infantry and character killing leaves the bret lord at the bottom, if it was just char killing Heroic Killing blow would put him up again.

I can easily see the lizzy lord being up there (9 S5 WS6 attacks from him, 5 WS3 S6 Multiple wounds (D3) attacks from the mount, and D6 S6 autohits from the mount rapes infantry units and has enough attacks to get to another lord.

>> No.11357570

Carnies are S7.

>> No.11357582

If you wanna spend a lot of money go for a tomb king settra army with only chariots, carrion, heavy cavalry and tomb guard.

Dispel THAT in 8th ed you fucks.

>> No.11357597

I sympathize with you, mate. I play WoC specifically because of the Khorne Lord on Juggernaut model (it's the entire reason I play Fantasy, well, along with WAR), and field him as the most intense, beastly Lord I can, and he's never done me any good. Remind me to tell you the story of why I named him Bjorn the Flat...

>> No.11357617

Thought they were S6, but that just makes it so much worse. I was thinking of the Ancient Steg.

>> No.11357619

I'm pretty new to fantasy and I decided to play dwarfs. The mobility has been a huge issue for me so far, you almost have to deploy in a compact "gunline" just so you can actually support yourself. Positioning is extremely important. That said, even your "weak" troops are pretty hard, and with the new infantry rules your great weapons do rape pretty hard. Miners are good for taking out war machines and Gyrocopters are great for flying by the side of a big low toughness unit flaming it every turn and maybe preventing their marches. I don't pretend to know how to play them well yet though, just what i've learned so far.

>> No.11357626

Oh man that sucks. I kinda hate those "this is really rare but basically fucks you for the game" kind of rolls. I think LoS just auto-succeeding would be ok and prevent this sort of shit.

I was playing my friends VC once, he had the lord level mannfred. First turn, he starts his magic phase, rolls a miscast on 3 dice, and then double 1's. 500 point general dies, army starts crumbling. Of course, we spent like a half hour setting the game up so I told him to re-roll on the miscast table and we continued on, but that sort of thing irks me a bit.

>> No.11357629

T6-7? How is that managed? Also the reason I put him in mid tier is because from what I have put together in their armory their selection of items is...poor... at best. Best thing I came up with was d3 wounds S8 or something like that.

Also suffers from a lack of WS and I, and almost always strikes last.

Exactly my friend. It is the old bloods volume at S5 and the rapeasaur S7 D3 wounds that is the perfect synergy between rider and mount. I have seen it kill 10 models in 1 round.

>> No.11357654

Are you fielding him like this and avoiding cannons and bolt throwers?

>> No.11357692

Oh, and if anyone wants to make a stupid-hard to kill Carnie-lord:
Carnosaur, Trickster's helm, Dawnstone, Venom of the firefly frog, light armor, halberd/great weapon (if I4 is that important to you).
Maximum armor save that you reroll, successful wounds against you must be rerolled, and 5 S6/7 magical poison attacks.

>> No.11357710

That is the worst thing that could ever happen. At least us TK players don't have to worry about miscasts. Speaking of - oh my god, I can't cast a goddamn spell against Dwarfs. Kings are so dependent on the magic phase and Dwarfs just shut us down so hard. They need to change the Incantation system in the new book, but I really hope they don't just make them spells. That would defeat the purpose.

>> No.11357736

Damn, that is one model I wouldn't mind having just to paint. Very few models like that...

>> No.11357791

I need to get my hands on the new common magic items list.

Also this setup is win because he is not only frenzied and pissed but also stupid as fuck, probably because he is so pissed.

I have one, my friend painted it for me. It's a fucking beautiful model and is a joy to field. Just seeing him on the field is a sight.

Also could a khorne lord on a juggernaut join a unit of marauders or chaos knights? I don't see why not...[

>> No.11357809

Don't be a fag OP, play dorfs.

>> No.11357812

Sorry, I meant to say marauder horsemen.

>> No.11357830

No, not quite like that. Current setup is:

Chaos Lord 210
-MoK 15
-Juggernaut 50
-Chaos Runesword 50
-Helm of Many Eyes 25
350 pts total

I would give him the Blasphemous Amulet and a Shield if I had the points for it, but I simply don't. My 1,500 list is already 10 points over, and I cannot find anything to cut. Plus, the only reason I'd add on a Shield is because the model has one. Game-wise, it's useless, since he already has a 1+ armor save and can't benefit from the ward save

>> No.11357862

No one can cast a goddamn spell against the dwarfs anymore. Its the dwarfs that need to be fixed, not the TK (well, the TK need to be fixed, but their incantations are actually the best thing about them). The dwarfs are the only army that can scale magic defense in step with TK magic as points increase. Against everyone else magic defense increases very slowly (and soon caps) where TK magic just goes on and on.

>> No.11357892

Yes, he can, although the Juggernaut is actually slower than the other cavalry in the book. I used to run my Khorne Lord with a unit of 5 Chaos Knights. Still didn't do a whole lot. Goddamn stone throwers/tactical negligence

>> No.11357897

Yes he can join, but he only gets LoS when hes hanging out with other monstrous cav. It still protects you from regular shooting though so its better than nothing.

>> No.11357901


I for one really hope they don't change too much with the new TK book (although new models would be sweet) I'll deffinetly agree with you.

In 8th I just run a 2,500 Settra list heavy on chariots, archers, horsemen and a couple tombguard, all small-medium units to avoid both evil 8thed 4th level wizards as well as using Settra's mass "my will be done" a hell of alot.

Nice little buff to the Casket with the errata though.

>> No.11357915

If the new book changed the Dispel Rune to a 0-1 equipment choice only available to Heroes/Lords, would that make them balanced enough?

>> No.11357967

You only every play 1500? 2000+ is a world of its own man, my standard game size is 2500. I would imagine chaos suffers in small point games. I have played them in 2000-2500 point games and I still am absolutely dwarfed by everyone else s army.

Also 4k is beautiful. I had a slann and a rapasaur on the table...2 stegadons...fun stuff.

Hell yea, I'm going to throw him in with 10 marauder horsemen from now on. Cavalry meatshields! Push those horses to the front!

>> No.11358008

I'd like to see a removal of dispel dice for runesmiths as well. Just make dispelling with a runesmith +1 (so +3 total) and dispelling with a runelord +3 (so +5) total. Then cap dispel runes at 1. Dwarfs are still the best dispellers (especially including all the + to dispel items they can take) but scale at the same speed as everyone else.

>> No.11358009

Oh my lawd anything new for TK will be awesome.

>> No.11358010


8thed goes by so fast that bigger games should only not happen if people don't have the resources.

>> No.11358148

i don't think bretonnian lords are that shitty.

Having access to heroic killing blow in addition to any magical equipment they want to take is pretty awesome.

they also have a few fun things that they can do, like always issuing challenges that must be accepted but get to re-roll hits and wounds in them...

>> No.11358238

Well the chart was made before the FAQs came out, but I don't know if the guy who made it cares. I certainly would move bretts higher specifically because of that ruling.

>> No.11358246

The thing that kept them low on that was that they can't both rape characters and Infantry at once. They can do one or the other.

>> No.11358247

1,500 is the largest I can possibly do. As it is, 300 of those points are cardboard cutouts representing units. I simply don't have the models or the cash to buy them. Besides that, though, my LGS has been running 1,000 point matches exclusively for a long time. Warmachine is the big thing here, with WHFB being a very distant second (maybe 5 players, all of us inactive), and 40k in third. Distant, distant third.

Also, on a semi-related note, I'm currently converting my Khorne Lord on Juggernaut to have the back flag of >>11357830 and the chain reins of this one

>> No.11358286

Even then, Bret Lords were fairly good. I mean, they're not super rape machines like Chaos Lords or Daemon Princes, but they're cheap and have a decent statline. Plus, if they're kitted out right, Bret Lords can lay serious smackdown.

>> No.11358324

>Play dorfs
>60% of infantRy is gunline
>Cannons and bolthrowers everywhere
>Engineers x-mas

>> No.11358377

Sucks. I'm moving in a year and I hope where ever I go has a decent LGS. My LGS here sucks (its all magic, though they do have game tables) and I only play with my friends, but they are really hard to nail down. As is I've played probably 10 games of fantasy since I started a year ago (basically all within a few months of when we all started, then stopped) and about 50 games of 40k, because there were more people playing that and for longer.

>> No.11358504

My sympathies. If you're moving you'll be losing your friends too, then, I take it? That'll be zero players you have access to right off the bat, not to mention the obvious downsides of losing friends. Are you moving to a large urban area?

>> No.11358582

>>pray to the chaos gods with increasing panic as the enemy approaches charge distance from your gunline

>> No.11358605

Yep, though I have been pretty good at keeping in touch with my friends (many of them have all moved around the country and back which is part of the no gaming problem, but the internet helps a lot). No sure where I'm going, I'm applying to grad school in the fall, but the closest is a few hours away. All are in somewhat urban areas. I'm hoping I'll find a good gaming community, but I'm not sure how I'll adapt to the pick up game system.

>> No.11358634

War machine in first? 40k in 3rd? Something...doesn't sound right. I remember using cardboard to though, I mainly used to cut out paper and put dice on it.

The banner and the chain reigns would be sick man I would love to see the model.

Yea LGS are real hit or miss. Mine is predominantly 40k but everyone likes to poke their head into fantasy every now and than. Still only about 4 of us actual play. I'm able to usually get a game a weak in though.

I don't doubt that bret lords are relatively good, however, like the majority of the units in the mid-low tier they must be kited to accomplish specific rolls.

Do they preform their rolls well for their price? Yes they do, however, they are simply not versatile enough to stand on their own.Their biggest weakness is a lack of volume, lack of high passive S, and no re-rolls expect for in duels (again when kited as such).

If their was a hero killing specific list they would be high in that no doubt.

>> No.11358734

Also list updated to superior format if anyone cares.

Not sure if Vamp deserves that high tier spot. Thinking dreadlord because of how cheap they are and how godly that armory is.

>> No.11358775

Yeah, this area is weird. We have two Pressgangers, 10+ Warmachine players, maybe 5 WHFB players, and only a few 40k people, most of which stop by from other stores since there just aren't enough people to play with. Personally, I started tabletop wargaming with Warmachine, but I just can't get back into it. Warhammer Fantasy (~1,200 points of WoC) is the love of my life right now, despite having larger armies in both Warmachine (75 points of Khador) and 40k (4,500 points of Tau)

>> No.11358835

>low tier empire
>high tier beastmen
>no ogres

>> No.11358878

4500 points in tau? Shit man that's a whole lot of greater good.

That's the problem I hear most though with Fantasy. People really liking it and wanting to get into an army but having no one to play against.

Sucks pretty hardcore and cripples the community. I did manage to get a buddy from work playing though. I baited him in with pictures of Juggernaut lords and games of Call of Warhammer.

>> No.11358892

That chart purely reflects the power of the respective army's bed Lord build. The rest of the rules are in >>11357387. Also, Ogres are on there...

One thing, though. Remember how we were talking about earlier that 8th edition has significantly reduced the power disparities between armies? I would say that dividing the Lord list into "low" and "lowest" tiers, or "high" and "highest" is a bit off. Just like everyone knows the order is Bloodthirster, Chaos Lord, Carnosaur, and yet they are all in one tier

>> No.11358917

Bottom left of mid tier has ogres, bro.

>> No.11358933

Haha, you play Call of Warhammer? How is it? I've been dying to get it, but I haven't gotten a chance to mod M2 in a long time.

Also, I bought all 4,000 of those points for $150 from a buddy at my LGS (sold his 40k to pay for his Warmachine) and traded the Orks from AoBR for the other 500 points with another friend

>> No.11358953

Sorry, overlooked that.

The Empire lord should be higher, Van Horst's is a pretty broken magic item. But just stat and weapon/armor wise, I think it's spot on.

>> No.11359006

The mods amazing man I love it. We usually play it every night but the fucker been on vacation for almost 2 weeks now. My stream here has a bunch of our recorded games if you care to take a look see how it is. http://www.livestream.com/THAD?t=336877

Everything feels about right balance wise and the models look amazing for a mod.

It is a bit misleading your right but everything has its place of power. A rapeasaur lord may be just a bit better than a high elf on dragon but it is still better.

That item does make them broken duel wise but its damn next to impossible to get the even remotely decent at unit killing. And if you try dueling goes down the drain in an instant.

>> No.11359103

>the models look amazing for a mod
While the mod team does apparently have some good modelers, almost all of the units are stolen directly from the RTS "Mark of Chaos". I have no problem with that, since it makes for a better mod and isn't violating copyright, but some people were upset when that came out.

>> No.11359198

Yeah I heard about that.

I don't really care were it comes from though as long as it looks great. I don't see why people would be upset about it either .

I played mark of chaos, terrible game.

>> No.11359287

You lie. Mark of Chaos is one of my favorite RTS games, even if it is too easy. What didn't you like about it?

>> No.11359451

First of all 6 disc installation, that shit is just whack.

Unit command were rather simplified, it was like they took the total war system and numbed it down a bit which being the total war fan I am is a no no.

I didn't like that no matter what I did chaos warriors wee duel wielding. There should have been options for shields and shit.

Heroes were very clunky especially when dueling. High elven prince on dragon was unkillable. The ability to customize you heroes talent trees was neat but I found it more tedious and bland than it could have been. No chaos lord, only marauder heroes.

A lot of stuff also felt extremely unbalanced in a just wrong kind of way. I saw empire swordsmen destroy chaos warriors in combat way to many times.

>> No.11359538

Ah, yeah, some valid points. I bought the Battlemarch expansion that came packaged with the original Mark of Chaos so there was only one disk, but I know the frustration of installing the 3 disk Dawn of War 1. Dueling was clunky and it was often a few seconds of lag time before your commands are acted out, but it did provide an easy way of demoralizing the whole enemy army. I actually killed the High Elf Lord on Dragon quite a few times with my Daemon Prince, but even then it was a tense fight that left me nearly dead

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