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11300903 No.11300903 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

in any setting handled realistically, rape is going to be a part of any game. men who make adventuring or war their profession are just not going to have many scruples when that sort of thing comes up, and its inevitable that some member of the weaker sex will get put in a difficult situation.

so how does your group handle this? do you describe it? do you just cut scene and deal with the consequences? do you pretend it isn't a possible scenario at all? seems like the GM would be pulling punches if the threat at least wasn't present for a woman.

>> No.11300922

Fade to black. Roll the dice.

>> No.11300932

someone post that rapist prestige class

>> No.11300941

My players are predators. If they think they can get away with it, they'll do it.

>> No.11300958
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i once had a player (a man playing a female thief) get raped when she was caught breaking into a crooked judge's house. as he decided to do this alone w/o the party, it ended up being upsetting for him as the whole table was focused on it while they waited for the scene to cut back to them. he got royally upset with me, probably more upset than if i'd just killed his thief off. i thought that was silly.

>> No.11300988

Rape has never come up in any of my games for any reason; it has never been necessary to help create a "real" sense of immersion, it has never been necessary to highlight the grittiness or the horror of the setting, and it has never been needed as a way to enhance or expand the roleplaying experience. Were it to ever enter one of my games it would be handled with the sentence "so and so was assaulted and raped", and that would be the end of it. However, I cannot possibly imagine any situation in which it would be necessary to present it in-game as anything other than backstory.

>> No.11301017


how?! every male character, pc and npc alike, are all chivalrous white-knight types? there are thieves who would cut your throat for a copper piece, but rape? why i never!

>> No.11301018

One my players in Rogue Trader servitised that one Fel fellow from Into the Maw and strutted him around as a sexual toy as a warning to her enemies.

>> No.11301025

Annoy the game master by derailing his plots utterly so that the rapist that did me becomes the center-point of a revenge scheme that toppled the entire city because I refused to help save it.

And I made sure the GM realized it after we had made certain the city was destroyed, because when the Paladin asked me why I used my skills to undercut the party's attempts at saving it, I told him, "The duke's son raped me. I raped his city."

The Paladin backed me.

>> No.11301030

in any realistic setting rape is gonna exist, yes...but you don't have to shove it in your players faces

>> No.11301053

We once ran a game in the world of Berserk, and it just isn't berserk unless there is horrifying rape.

>> No.11301058

Read my entire post, buddy. I never said it didn't exist in my games, I said it has absolutely no reason to enter play in my games aside from backstory/history. It adds nothing. Your mileage may vary.

>> No.11301067

>as he decided to do this alone w/o the party, it ended up being upsetting for him as the whole table was focused on it while they waited for the scene to cut back to them. he got royally upset with me, probably more upset than if i'd just killed his thief off. i thought that was silly.

That kind of thing is probably best done either in private, or with a fade to black, bro. Most specially on pen and paper, table RPGs.

>> No.11301069

People don't like rape. So we just pretend there's less of it, or just never in the path of the PCs.

Tabletop is playing pretend. Why pretend to be in situations that make people uneasy.

>> No.11301072

Being a ca/tg/irl, I'd have to say I would prefer if rape was implied but never explicit and certainly never described. I would be pissed if it was just thrown out there, btw, this character is a prisoner of war RAEP TIEM!

HOWEVER! All of that being said... The most effective use of 'rape' in a game I have ever seen to this day? Only ever implied. A 'spirit' imprisoned with a demon. They are the only truly sentient people in this prison. Every time this demon is mentioned to the npc spirit, it gets obviously disturbed. Guess what happened?

What? I was never told, but I can say for certain, if I was that demon, -something- would have.

Remember, rape is not just male-on-female violence, though in our world it is sadly the most common kind. Everyone can be raped by anyone else, gender is a cosmetic factor.

TL:DR - Avoid Rape as a rule. Imply it to mature players only.

>> No.11301083

Is it? Did you see what the player's response was? Appropriate for rape, that's what.

That's the way it should be.

>> No.11301090
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>> No.11301092

There was an Inquisitor in our game that was a brutal rapist but stalwart believer in the Emperor.

>> No.11301095

Can you honestly say the player would be just as driven to do something like that if all he got was a 'fade to black' ?

>> No.11301096


thats like saying that because the warrior doesn't want the dragon to breathe fire on him, it doesn't add to the game. its a threat, a danger, something you don't want to happen, like any other. its actually a great storytelling device because it lets you threaten the players w/o even involving HP or injuring them or setting up a blackmail mcguffin or w/e. nobody wants to be raped, but you don't even have to take their gear away or anything. instant kick-in-the-pants to the character's personality, too. nobody remains static after a rape.

>> No.11301098

Sounds like my kinda guy.

>> No.11301105


as another ca/tg/irl, I'll have to concur that I generally accept that my characters get raped pretty consistently. It's not told to me, or implied even most of the time. I just know that if I'm ever capture by orcs, or sent to a prison, or taken by demons to be "off screen" for a while, I just assume that I've been raped.

That being said, it's still one of the hottest things in the world to me. The idea sends shivers down my spine.

>> No.11301108


Unless rape adds something to your game (like easy RP drama or whatnot), I see no reason to ever mention or include it in game.

>> No.11301112

If you can't subtly imply it then you shouldn't be using it as a plot element.

>> No.11301116

If you can manage it without creepign out your players, more power to you. Most GM's can't or don't wish to.

You sounds like a great candidate to run a game of FATAL, though. Which says everything about you as a game master that is important.

>> No.11301119

Use rape to highlight the darkness of the setting so when your players do not take advantage of NPCs they are surprised.

>> No.11301121

No rape in my games.
i play games to get away from the ugliness of the world.

>> No.11301123

Our group handles such things rarely, with sarcasm.

>> No.11301127

the only reasons you would want to use rape would be very specific and situational...so isn't this a non issue?
as far as PCs raping, if they are raping another PC I'd just tell them to stop being assholes, if they were raping an NPC it would depend entirely on the situation

>> No.11301132

In one adventure, trolls had crossed into the mortal world and were causing havoc. The paladin was going on about how we shouldn't kill them and just find a way to send them back. That they are just scared because they are in a foreign place.

They get to the village they were heading to.

Trolls have ransacked the place.

They burned all the men and children alive in a big pile.

The trolls surrounded the burning pile and were raping the surviving women, casually tossing them into the fire when they finished their "business".

Paladin shut right the fuck up and readied a Smite Evil.

>> No.11301135

You are scum

>> No.11301140

We had a wonderful campaign where we entered an extremely religious city state. They didn't take a liking to our female tiefling bard one bit, she was stolen from us in the middle of the night and "punished" by the local priests/clerics. It was implied and the DM did go into detail, but it wasn't intended to be "hot" or "fetish fuel". She was mentally, physically and emotionally broken when we found we found her, and her character was the most bubbly and upbeat member of the party on any other day. My Paladin, who initially didn't like her due to how hyper she was, added to the fact that she was a gods damned tiefling, proceeded to go on the warpath. The party burned entire that town to the ground, and to this day fucks with that nation whenever we can.

If its handled in a matter that doesn't make it sound like a fetish, and gives the party something to fight for, its fine.

>> No.11301146
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When you have things like this in your world but not rape it really strains the imagination.

>> No.11301155
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ITT we miss the point.

Go play a game of FATAL guys, you'd love it.

>> No.11301159

I'm fairly neutral towards the whole matter. Games can certainly go without, and explicit rape scenes do nothing but make it worse, but if it happens well, I'm okay with it.

My current character is a female. However, she is also a paladin and a supreme badass. I sorta half-expect someone to ever try it on her.

>> No.11301161

I deal with it in character, just as it should be dealt with. I've gotten a couple of characters killed when the GM realized that he wasn't going to have his jollies. One character went suicidal and killed herself, another was killed because she ripped open once of the rapist's face with her fignernails on a improved crit unarmed strike, and the latest - well, the city burned, destroying all his plots for the entire party so that he had to rewrite them. He might be gettign the idea that I'm smart enough to run his railroadin' rapefests into the ditches and set fire to them by now.

Careful, the thought police are watching.

>> No.11301162
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>> No.11301164


>> No.11301176
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>he inserts his sexual fantasies into RPGs

>> No.11301177


>> No.11301182

As a DM, its been a pretty consistent rule at any table I've run that rape may happen, but guess what? Not gonna talk about it, cause it's a game, for everybody, and we want to enjoy our damn time, not stare at each other awkwardly or get into shouting matches.

As a player, I'll admit, only played male characters so its never been brought up by any DM I've ever played under. But if it did happen, to anyone or myself? I collect my books and walk. Don't need that shit, dont want to hear about it, don't even want hints of it.

My two cents.

>> No.11301184

The sad part is that she now is extremely shy, self conscious and jittery.She also has a horrible fear of religious figures, including the Paladin who feels like he failed her.

>> No.11301187

That's the fucking point, moron. If it's NOT done for sexual purposes, rape is fine in a game. If ANYTHING is done for sexual purposes in a game, people will usually get weirded out.

>> No.11301198
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>poor rationalizations for poorly thought out actions

>> No.11301210
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>> No.11301224

A female PC was raped once after being captured by some brigands, in the last campaign I played in. The player was angry, swore revenge, and then went and got it.

In all fairness, it was a pretty obvious "you gon' get raped" situation. Walking straight into it was foolish, and now it won't happen again.

>> No.11301226
File: 102 KB, 900x617, Horns14__Triceratops_by_patriatyrannus.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


oh noes TROLLZ!

>> No.11301237

Oh look, it's THIS tripfag again.

>> No.11301241

>that picture

>> No.11301244


she's lucky, cause the men would get killed... she'd have a chance to escape

>> No.11301258

Where do you think half-Orcs come from?

>> No.11301261
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>> No.11301262


you know i'm your favorite

>> No.11301270

Wait, a rape-based thread, and not a hint of Lace? I wonder where it has gone and gotten to this time...

>> No.11301273

It rarely comes up. It's simply not worth mentioning, particularly in a group that includes a rape victim.

>> No.11301276
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ITT no fun allowed.



You're all fucking retards, and should be locked away for being stupid.

>> No.11301279

>We had a wonderful campaign where we entered an extremely religious city state. They didn't take a liking to our female tiefling bard one bit, she was stolen from us in the middle of the night and "punished" by the local priests/clerics.
LOL. I just cant treat you seriously guys, you re watched to many hentai. It is even unreasonable.

Imagine the thinking of religious fanatics. Hey this creature has demon blood, lets punich her. But wait, we wont torture or burn her or torture her, we all will have sex with her! Totaly reasonable and makes sense.
Maybe you trollin?

That is main trouble with rape in games, while everybody says that it is for part of realism and stuff, no one of those who uses rape in games cant handle it in apropriate manner, and more like stuff of porno ,ovies even if not roleplayed.

>> No.11301282

That was actually exactly what happened. The rogue got his throat cut, the bard got raped, escaped, got the cavalier and the cleric, and beat the shit out of the perpetrators.

>> No.11301289
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try and rape me

>> No.11301291
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I loled

>> No.11301293


>> No.11301296

Some ronery pervert feels offended, that his ingame fetishes are not approved.

>> No.11301304

We've only had it once, and it was actually pretty funny.

We had just gotten ourselves a ship and were docking in Luskan (Yeah, Forgotten Realms). When we arrived there came two men and charged us 200 gold for docking fee. No one was interested in paying that so according to our chaotic evil way I summoned a polarbear behind the men and told them to leave else they're getting mauled and thrown into the ocean.

After they hurry the fuck out of there, the real dock guards arrive and charge us 2 gold for docking fee. Our dwarf barbarian is furious and after I track the scammers he beats them nearly to death and then proceeds with putting one into the gallows at a square nearby. There he pulls downs his pants and rapes him in front of a cheering crowd. We then take the other scammer as our slave.

>> No.11301312

He's busy in a WoD thrread talkign with Scarded of Sthit about his current rash of rapedchildmolestinglesbianidiots.

>> No.11301321


>> No.11301323

In my games, I treat rape the same I treat excessive violence: it gets described in one or two short descriptive sentences, with three adjectives and adverbs tops, and then we get on with the game. While I feel that being scared of mentioning sex while being free to describe mayhem in gory detail is mostly an American thing, I don't want anyone touching themselves under my table.

>> No.11301326

Girl, you just stolen axe from body of dead monster. I cxlearly see by your size and physical fitness, that this axe xant be used by you.

>> No.11301328

i was playing with a new dnd group recently, everything was goin' along fine with my useless bard and erstwhile cohorts, a new player was introduced to the game- her character was found in a barred pit naked, she had been knocked unconcious and raped by orcs. Everyone kind of shut down immediately after that, I had to stew in this awkward funk thinking about it. I haven't played with that group since. I don't think rape /adds/ anything to a game :/

>> No.11301332

Makes sense to me, a bunch of people taking advantage of all the power they have in their community to indulge in all sorts of things, even if they happen to condemn it. Happens all the time in real life.

>> No.11301337
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your party

>> No.11301338
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>Hey this creature has demon blood, lets punich her. But wait, we wont torture or burn her or torture her, we all will have sex with her! Totaly reasonable and makes sense.

Actually, that seems pretty realistic to me. Don't know about rape being taken lightly in a game itself, but those kinds of rapes happen in the real world a lot.

Pic related.

>> No.11301342

So my players, through an unfortunately-worded wish granted by an efreet, found themselves trapped in a layer of the abyss.

One place they come across is called "The Maternity Ward", a place were new demons are born.

In the maternity ward, millions of animated genitalia of all shapes, kinds, and sizes are constantly dumped into a massive pit. These disembodied genitalia then proceed to writhe around and rape each other in an orgy of flesh, sweat, blood, and sexual lubricant. The vaginas swell up as they are filled with seed, until they finally burst, giving birth to new demons. The newborn demons then gorge themselves on the penises and in the pit, as well as each other, until they grow strong enough to climb out.

The PC's were dropped into this pit.

>> No.11301343


Don't lol just yet, comrade. It could still be out there... lurking... be cautious!

>> No.11301344

>try and rape me

(because my god only allows me to have sex with man who defeted me in combat)

>> No.11301360

We had this thred last night, asshole. Two of them in fact. Shut the fuck up and go to bed.

>> No.11301361

Well not a single priest would want to be tainted.

>> No.11301362
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>> No.11301363

the fuck is this broken on this board?

>> No.11301365

Probably goes to show the religious guys as sexually repressed and massive hypocrites. A passable but ham-fisted start to a FUCK RELIGION campaign.

>> No.11301376

It's not broken, it just doesn't have spoilers enabled.

>> No.11301384

Spoilers have never worked on /tg/.

>> No.11301385
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this thread

>> No.11301389


I thought it was supposed to use <> brackets, not []

>> No.11301393
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>> No.11301395

>Imagine the thinking of religious fanatics. Hey this creature has demon blood, lets punich her. But wait, we wont torture or burn her or torture her, we all will have sex with her! Totaly reasonable and makes sense.
Imagine the thinking of religious fanatics. They hate pedophilia, and having sex with children is wrong.

Then notice Catholicism. Raping something you hate in order to degrade it also makes sense.

>> No.11301399


This thread is otters?

>> No.11301409
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with pleasure. the ones who fight the hardest cry the sweetest.

>> No.11301420
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>> No.11301422


Jesus, shut the fuck up, asshole.

>> No.11301425

>it's totally not a sexual fantasy to insert rape into our games, it's just realistic
>queue thread devolving into rape fantasies

>> No.11301431

I think thats what our GM was alluding too. The very same city state is also at war with others that have similar belief systems, but claims that its religion is the only true one.

Could be considered an allusion to Fundamentalist Islam, but they would have just lopped off her head and be done with it then.

>> No.11301438
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I love when my character gets raped. To the point where getting raped has become something of a skill for her.

I mean I love her to death but I love it even more when players have their way with her. The more descriptive, the better. It feeds my cuckold fetish I guess.

>> No.11301443
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didn't your mommy tell you not to feed the tripfriends? you think your sage makes you post any less delicious to my unquenchable thirst for attention?

>> No.11301445

I like to include venereal disease in my games, for the historical realism. Roll 2d10 for syphilis.

>> No.11301453
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fresh rape juice

>> No.11301458
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>> No.11301460
File: 46 KB, 407x584, thisasshole.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>>my unquenchable thirst for attention?

You said it all, bro.

>> No.11301461

We had ritualistic sexualized anal impalement with 9 inch thick wooden stakes in one our games.

We never went back to that village again. And we left 1 druid short....

>> No.11301466

The Deity God decided there would be no rape in his world so anyone who attempts it instantly dissolves into ash.

Or i just kick the creepy fuck out of the gaming group.

>> No.11301467

You do it like in The Black Company. Here's a paraphrased section of one part in the book from my memory.

"I saw Otto come stumble in with some sobbing young lass thrown over his shoulder - the spoils of war I suppose. He turned to me with a half-cocked smile on his face, and threw me a wink as if asking for my approval. I gave him a bland response, and Otto went on his way upstairs laughing. I personally found the whole prospect of such plunder to be distasteful, and instead would usually try to scrounge up some treasures or the best pickings of food before the rest of the men returned. Out of the corner of my eye I saw the Captain grimace. I imagine the Captain himself to actually be a type of romantic, as he always would rein in the men before such excess got out of hand. He knew it would be foolish to forbid it in entirety, but I suspect even he had his limits."

>> No.11301470


I got a 17. Do I win?

>> No.11301481

As long as the GM can handle the consequences of causing characters to be raped in the game, sure, no problem. Most GM's, however, aren't that stupid.

>> No.11301483

we larp it out with the DMs sub girlfriend.

>> No.11301497
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In an outfit like this how can you not expect a man to ponder raping you?

>> No.11301512

Syphilis. Transmittable 2/day.

>> No.11301522


>Rape the Major
Maybe if you deactivate her first.

>> No.11301526

Finally a rape victim that actually acts like one. We've had a rogue raped multiple times and shes all "OH NOES I GOT RAPED! WELL TIME TO CLEAN UP AND GO ABOUT MY DAY! LALALALALALALA!"

>> No.11301531
File: 66 KB, 750x600, 40 lbs of Rape.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


Sweet! Off to go forcibly transmit my new superpower!

>> No.11301544


Probably not even then. Batou'd fuck your shit. He's totally ghey for the Major.

>> No.11301552


Depends how they act.

Particularly Kuudere or actually emotionless characters can put on a pretty strong face.

Adventurers have the bonus of being able to take their pain out on monsters/their enemies.

>> No.11301560

They can ponder all they like. The Major is not the lady to fuck around with unless she wants you to be fucking around with her.

>> No.11301563

ITT proof that some people should not be allowed to GM.

>> No.11301566


That said, the Major's pretty good at not getting pwned even when someone messes with her circuitry...

>> No.11301567

Consensual lovings. At least in 4e.

>> No.11301572
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yes consensual

>> No.11301576


>> No.11301579


And she's not likely to want you to fuck with her, since it's strongly implied that she's a lesbian.

>> No.11301595

"Well, it's the middle of the night, /tg/ should be pretty fucking awesome right now! Oh, what's this thread about?"

Wow, you can disappoint me at 4 a.m. just as well as you can at 4 p.m.!

>> No.11301599


I dunno, there was that episode where she's in the middle of the body transfer. She's pretty well helpless throughout.

>> No.11301602


My half-orc was a harem daughter, chosen for her strength to be her father's second in battle.

She's an ugly, drunken motherfucker who learned most of her fighting from a human who made her abandon her true orcen name.

One day, though, the humans will know Ownka daughter of the Great Warlord Thonk Vrool is their hero, not 'Isabella Elias' or this bullshit 'civilized' name Lord Estefan and Lady Mirabelle forced on her.

When she's done using you pitiful humans she's being her own person.

>> No.11301609

I don't remember that being implied anywhere...

>> No.11301610

Also depends on the character. A bookish sorceress isn't going to react the same way as a hardened guttersnipe thief is compared to a well trained monk.

Sorceress killed herself in battle, thouugh she did save lifves, it was not necessary for her to die; the monk fought back too hard and got herself killed for her trouble; the thief, well she tripped up, undercut, and purposefully failed to help the party with their work so the entire city burned so she could see the people who did her sold into slaver or killed.

>> No.11301620


I thought she guiled her way out of that, though.

>> No.11301625


Just realize this thread is now about GitS and it you'll be less disappoint.

>> No.11301632
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There will be a great despoiling. Vlad the Impaler grins in his shallow grave.

>> No.11301634
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If you and your fellow PCs aren't raping the shit out of female NPCs at every opportunity that allows for it, you're doing it wrong. Few things add more depth than raping and traumatizing a previously sassy wench. Obviously you'll only want to save post-rape murder for the really unforgivable ones (cold female assassin for instance) to avoid shit getting too retarded, but it absolutely has to be there in some form. I mean if she's trying to fucking kill you, rape-murder is like the least you can do to her.

I'm serious, your games must be so fucking boring if you don't allow rape.

>> No.11301644

Herp, derp.

>> No.11301645

OP also forgets that females can rape. I turned the GM green when I graphically described how my petite little rogue got information from the captain of the guard who had tried to kill her and her friends. the paladin was unconscious at the time, and she cleaned up after. She left the hilt of the knife where she put it though.

Canonically bisexual.

>> No.11301646
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>> No.11301647
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Rape can define a person, give meaning to their quest. This man has raped you not only in body but spirit. What are you going to do about it?

>> No.11301663
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>> No.11301683
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>> No.11301684


Did you read the original manga? She's got two live-in roommates. And, I've had plenty of roomies, and none of them ever shared a bed unless they were down for some sexytime. This also comes up in the first season of SAC. It's never really explicitly stated, but she is on one occasion pictured at home with the two of them, and in a different episode goes to visit her "good friend" at the clinic where she works.


I thought that the Laughing man took the opportunity to have a chat with the Major, then just kind of let her go. My memory could be faulty, though, it's been awhile.

>> No.11301685

So? Lots of other things can do that.

I have a virgin tiefling who was raised as a slave in the abyss, in Grazz't's city of Zalantyr. She has as complex a backtstory as your rape victim and as much reason to adventure.

Can you imagine what life has to be like for someone NOT to get raped in the Abyss?

>> No.11301687

Have your chariot-riding ass handed to you by Romans?

>> No.11301704


boring? you'd have to live in a bubble of heaven to not be raped in the center of hell

>> No.11301706

Those two roomates are also helping her make illegal sex recordings in virtual reality. She also was going out with an officer from Section 4 for a while in that same series of manga. And she kissed him like she meant it.

>> No.11301717


Oh? She's definitely bi? That makes sense, considering Shirow's background. I had just never seen it explicitly stated. Too bad Batou's junk doesn't work. Poor fella.

>> No.11301721

Quit the group and play something else?

>> No.11301729


Oh! That's right! I remember now. Sorry, like I said, it's been some years.

>> No.11301730

Sorry dawg, I don't read manga. I just saw the two movies.

>> No.11301736

Or be more valuable intact than raped. Being subservient to more powerful creatures and still being a virgin does not mean 'safe from harm'.

She has more issues than she can count (and a tragically low charisma of 6, so she's quite angry, all the time. Angry Marines would approve of her, before they shot her for being a xeno).

>> No.11301744

Motoko Kusanagi is straight. She even has a boyfriend in the original comic.

She performs some sexual "services" outside her normal job that involve linking cyberbrains, thus allowing each participant to feel what the others are feeling in addition to themselves. Unfortunately, this can only be done with same-sex participants (all-male-bodied participants or all-female-bodied participants). Having an opposite-sex participant causes intense and indescribable pain due to receiving sensory input for parts you don't have.

Motoko is in all likelihood bisexual, but this carries very little meaning in a setting where one can transfer from a male body to a female one as they wish.

>> No.11301749


There are three movies. :-P

Also, go check out Stand Alone Complex (the TV series). It's really good, and bridges the gaps between movies. The Laughing Man is probably my favorite villain in anime.

>> No.11301764

Three? Unless your including the 'cutscene' movies from the SAC series, there are two that I know of, GitS and GitS:Innocence.

>> No.11301768

Three? Damn, I've been living under a rock.

Also, I watched the first episode of Stand Alone Complex and though "no, I'm not watching this".

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Why does she even need to be in the Abyss then? Sounds like your thrusting forward a character concept against all logic. No one remains pure in the very heart of evil.

>> No.11301801


Bro, she ain't straight. As previously mentioned, she's had at least two girlfriends, with whom she has had sex. I find myself believing the guy who said she's canon bi. Shirow's never been shy about hyper-sexualizing his characters.

>> No.11301820


The first couple episodes are slow. They're there mostly to introduce the characters to people who aren't familiar with the series. It picks up after the third or fourth episode.

>> No.11301824

I felt the same way. I somewhat liked the original Ghost in the Shell movie, but Stand Alone Complex is just... bad. I can't quite put my finger on why, but there's more than one reason why I don't like it.

>> No.11301846

Never said she was 'pure'. I said she was a virgin. She managed to escape Zelantyr out from under the very powerful demons who used her to collect terrible things from terrible places that could not phycially harm her since she was virginal (which did nothing to protect her spirit or her mind), only to be confronted with something older than the demons (which drove more than a little mad), was told how to leave the Abyss by this god because she fell down and prayed to it (and became a worshiper of the Nine-Tongued-Worm as a result), and is currently trying to help some actual good people try to halt the return of Tharziduun to the world.

I never said she was either sane or pure - just sexually intact.

>> No.11301858

Motoko wears a ridiculous outfit in SAC, and the whole thing seems to radiate...something. Something incredibly annoying.

Then again, I get that from most Japanese artforms.

>> No.11301871

Your hell must be heaven. Perhaps your pcs should open a summer home there.

>> No.11301888


You two both weird me out. I read the manga first, after a friend threw it at me, then watched the first movie, and went "meh, maybe not so much". But then I saw SAC and all of a sudden something just clicked, and all was right in the world again.

>> No.11301890

Sure, whatever you say. That's a good troll, run along and play.

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>> No.11301905

>Motoko wears a ridiculous outfit.

You could have ended your sentence there. She wears something bizarre in every iteration of the series.

>> No.11301913

In my personal opinion, a group that is mature enough to handle rape in a game wont include it.

The only time I have come across it was with an old GM way back when. One of the party members was off by herself and got jumped in an alleyway. The guy went into some sickening detail about it and made the player uncomfortable enough to leave the group. None of the rest of us were too impressed either.

At the time there was a serial rapist roaming around the college getto where the GM lived, and I, being the civic minded moral bastard I am, colluded with the rest of the party, and gave an anonymous tip to the police. Needless to say, they kicked in his door, tore his place appart looking for evidence and held him for a day or so accusing him of it until the DNA crap came back and didn't match him.

He was fucking pissed at us. Haven't played with him in years.

Anyway, this is a shitty troll thread guarenteed replies because /tg/ loved to argue. I just wanted to share my story.

>> No.11301918

Xiombarg would approve.

>> No.11301925

>>You two both weird me out

Now now, isn't that a bit excessive?

>> No.11301934


God, you sound like a dick. Rape is wrong, but did you have to wrongly accuse someone? I would have just left after explaining my discomfort at the entrance of sexual issues into my roleplaying game.

>> No.11301945


Perhaps. It wasn't a bash on your quality of character, I assure you. I was simply shocked, and failing to come up with a sufficient way to describe that.

>> No.11301947

As a female, I approve.

It would have been poetic justice if he HAD been the rapist.

>> No.11301949

Dude you and your party are terrible people.

>> No.11301956


Wow, you must be a real life bitch. I guess karma will get you when you're accused of committing a serious crime.

>> No.11301958

like I said.

straight, gay, bi, it doesn't matter in the GitS world. The Major doesn't really have a sexual orientation the same as she feels no real need to cover her body.


Her body is just a shell that houses her ghost. A person's ghost can be transferred to any body desired. Male, female, fuchikoma tank, doesn't matter. A body is just a physical container that can be bought and sold like any other product in the GitS world.

A fleshy body is no different. Install a cyberbrain into a vat-grown body and copy your ghost over and you now have an organic body to inhabit.

If the Major switched to a male body and had sex with a man, would that be homosexual? With a person's body no-longer being the only one they have, concepts such as sexual orientation and covering your body start to break down. I think that's what Shirow tries to get at with the sexuality in GitS.

>> No.11301961


Well, if there was a serial rapist roaming an area, and all of a sudden, your DM injects a horrifyingly-detailed rape scene into his game, you wouldn't get suspicious?

>> No.11301962

Graphic description of rape to a newbie female in the group is okay though, right? Herp.

>> No.11301965

As a female, I think you're probably a brainless bimbo.

>> No.11301966

I'm not him, and I probably would not have done what he did, but it SEEMS (from the way he tells the story) like he tipped off the police not because the guy ruined their game or whatever, but because he genuinely believed that the guy might have been the serial rapist fo' realz.
It's a serious leap in logic that most likely wasn't appropriate to make (although I wasn't there), but it SEEMS (capital S) that he did it with decent intentions.

>> No.11301972

I am a gigantic prick. I know it and revel in it.

>> No.11301974

>Graphic description of rape to a newbie female in the group is okay though, right? Herp.
You keyed my car, I'm going to poison your kid.

>> No.11301996


Taught the fucker a lesson, didn't it?

>> No.11302000


What you did was irresponsible and is only contributing to the growing police state in the west. Watch your neighbor, report anything.

>> No.11302001

is babyfuck alright?

>> No.11302004

>Taught the fucker a lesson, didn't it?
Yeah don't associate with sociopaths like that party.

>> No.11302005
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>> No.11302008
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So, what you're saying is, transhumanism is inherently bisexual.

I'm okay with this.

As a sidenote, yes, but only if the person she's having sex with was also originally a female [for a certain definition of original - I mean the birth gender, assuming people are still generated the old-fashioned way in the GitS universe, which was my understanding]

>> No.11302013

>Rapist on campus
>Graphically descripbed a rape scene to a woman on campus at gaming session
>talk to police

Sure. Your logic is irre....yeah. Anyways.

>> No.11302017
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>> No.11302018


It depends on how you categorize your separation of mind and body (that was kind of the whole point of the series). There's no definitive right or wrong answer to the hypotheticals you pose. However, as she has sex with people of both male and female personalities, in both male and female bodies, the Major is at least bi, but possibly tri- or quad-sexual. Definitely not straight, but like you said, the idea of sexuality in the GitS world is stretched so thin that the term would effectively lose all meaning.

Although, it is considered a crime, IIRC, to install your mind into military hardware, such as a tank.

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>> No.11302029


Whatever white knight, you're still not going to get the girl.

>> No.11302032


No see, it's more like "You poison my kid, I'm gonna key your car."

You really have no idea how disturbing that shit is, do you?

>> No.11302037
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>> No.11302041


People are still generated via vagoos, yes. Vat-grown bodies are not, in fact, a thing in GitS, although some companies grow genetically-engineered organs in pigs for transplants into humans, and for anyone with a cyberbrain, robot bodies are effectively disposable, but expensive.

>> No.11302045
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>> No.11302049

And once again /tg/ fails to realize the continuum between Realism and Idealism.

Goddammit fa/tg/uys, get out of your basements and realize people are diverse. I for one am a total realist GM. I grew up in a med family so if you're dead I'll let you know how it smells. Some of my friends came back from Iraq (some didn't) and some of their dads are vietnam vets. It adds to the chaos and madness of slaughter. And if I do it right, it should make you angry and sick that war is actually happening. And damn near every girl I know has been raped or molested. This shit happens. Constantly. All around you. And some of us don't grow up sheltered and pretend like it isn't happening. It is. And I talk about it. In game and out.

But to each his own. If you don't like the Realism- the social commentary- I'm not the GM for you. Kindly and without regret GTFO. Go enjoy your "good vs. evil" fantasy game- because it is that- fantasy. But when I write- and when I host- the fantasy is a brutal simulation of the hells already here on earth. War. The Morgue. The Hospital. Prison. Your Uncle's cabin. And you will stare down the evil or you will falter, die, and leave of your own volition.

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>> No.11302065
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>> No.11302067

>And damn near every girl I know has been raped or molested.
Clearly, they shouldn't have been asking for it.

>> No.11302068

.....so? Better safe than sorry. You can apologize to someone who made you think they were a rapist. It's a hell of a lot harder to apologize to a rape victim who got raped because you didn't report suspicious behavior.

But they're only females, after all.

>> No.11302070

Hit /tg/
Fetish all over frontpage
Close browser and wait for autumn

>> No.11302072

>No see, it's more like "You poison my kid, I'm gonna key your car."
>You really have no idea how disturbing that shit is, do you?
I probably have a better idea than you do.
Doesn't matter. Bitch the guy out about it if you felt he was in the wrong. The girl was disturbed by it, did the mature thing and just left instead of acting like a child and trying to call the police on him.

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>> No.11302078

Right, so, there's your answer. It's only homosexual if both people were female at birth, and even then sketchy. Still, I figure it's the easiest method of selection, though I admit it might offend the transgender crowd, being as that can have a lot to do with self-identification as the opposite gender to your birth gender.

But I'm sticking to it for simplicity's sake. The whole thing is a rather pointless exercise for all the points you made - when your physical identity shifts as often as you can afford it to, sexual identity would be pretty meaningless.

>> No.11302079

Not every game is about "realism" or "social commentary". If your games are like that, that's fine, but that's not what the vast majority of gamers are looking for. And that doesn't mean that their games are dumbed down to "good vs. evil" levels; you're being unbelievably black and white in your interpretations of what makes a game greyscale and what doesn't.

You're completely missing the point.

>> No.11302082

I guess I'll report to police on slightest suspicion of wrongdoing. It's the only to be safe.

Plus that GM said it was a mature game. Bitch.

>> No.11302083

>escaped convict
>DM describes NPC murder

>> No.11302085

Trolling trolls.

>> No.11302087
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>> No.11302091

>..spurious logic!
Not even close to a metaphor.

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>> No.11302093
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>> No.11302094

Well, yes, but that's basically the cultural mindset.

>> No.11302095

>Plus that GM said it was a mature game. Bitch.
From what I've heard the girl did the mature thing and just left.
The group of white knights acted like children and called the police.

>> No.11302102
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>> No.11302108

So rape is worse than murder?

>> No.11302110

I really hope you are trolling and not that retarded.

>> No.11302112
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>> No.11302114

It's not about severity. You wouldn't describe torture in graphic detail, either.

>> No.11302115

More like transhumanism is inherently asexual. As bodies become redundant commodities, separate genders begin to meld into one androgynous gender. Once people in the GitS world no longer need bodies, existing purely in the internet, all concepts of gender cease to have meaning.

as for the little side example, say the man she was having sex with was originally born a woman but had the sexual identity of a man (as real transgendered people claim today). Rather than take hormones and go through the process of a sex change, she cyberized her brain and copied it to a male body. Is it still homosexual? Makes the gears in your head turn, and illustrates my point above.

>> No.11302119
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>> No.11302121

>implying being held by the cops for a day does anything more than scare you a bit

>> No.11302125

What the GM did was describe the rape of HER character, to her, graphically, in great detail.

If he had described the murder of HER character, in great detail, when there was a serial killer on the campus, THEN you can make the metaphor.

>> No.11302128
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>> No.11302130

>Hurr Durr. I'm totally GRIMDARK, and that makes me awesome.

Listen, I prefer an amount of realism to my games, as well, but to take it to that extreme? You're defeating the point of a 'game'. The idea of a game is that it provides you some fleeting, escapist distraction from the fact that life in this world is painful, brutal, and short. This world has enough bad shit in it, that I don't need to drag every aspect of it into the realm of my stories.

>> No.11302138
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>graphically, in great detail.
How "graphic"?

>> No.11302140
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>> No.11302146
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>> No.11302147

Graphic enough to make her leave, apparently, even knowing it was a mature game before hand.

>> No.11302148

>What the GM did was describe the rape of HER character, to her, graphically, in great detail.
What the fuck could possibly convince anyone that that's a good idea?

>> No.11302153

Not to mention that his alternative is noblebright good vs. evil where everything is cool.

No grey area. It's either grimdark as shit or fluffy bunnies. That's horrible argumentation.

>> No.11302155
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>> No.11302156

*rubs temple

I'd try to explain it slower but it's in writing so I can't. You can't say my argument that things are a subjective continuum is unacceptably objectively discreet. You just equated opposites.

"To each his own" + "It's a grayscale" =/= "My preference is superior to all others" + "It's black and white"

Other than that, I don't think either of us are missing the point.

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>> No.11302173

Apparently the OP thinks it's a necessity for some reason.

As I said, it makes him a great FATAL gamemaster, and a troll, but says a lot of other things about him too.

>> No.11302179

Okay, dude, if you graphically describe the rape of a player's character, TO THAT PLAYER, then there is something fucked up in your head. That is just not normal or healthy. At that point, you need professional help before you take the next step and actually rape someone.

With a rapist on campus, it was a GOOD thing this was reported to the cops. You never know. At the very least, the creepy fuck got a nice wake-up call from reality.

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>> No.11302187
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>> No.11302189

If I were gming and it came up, it'd be along the lines of "You're on the ground, paralyzed with pain from your wounds, when you feel rough hands pulling your clothing off. Then you get raped. And now to the rest of the party..."

>because all raped victims are BROKEN FOREVER

>> No.11302190

But if you agree with a white knight, you're a bad person who is an alarmist and immature you know.

>> No.11302191

>tri- or quad-sexual
what are you imagining as the 3rd and 4rth genders here? robots?

>> No.11302194
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>>dat three way

>> No.11302196

>a rapist on campus
>only one

>> No.11302198

I'm not talking in any way about objectivity. Nowhere in my post did I even begin to mention it, past passively mentioning that you seem to be thinking in absolutes.

I'd try to explain it slower but it's in writing, so I can't.

When I said "you're missing the point", I was mainly referring to your post being entirely about how "realistic games with social commentary" should be, when the point that most people are making when it comes to this subject is that those types of games are a minority, rather than a majority (if not in general, then at the very least in this thread), so how you play them really doesn't matter to the types of relatively light fantasy and social commentary-less games we partake in. In other words, rape in the context of YOUR games has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

*rubs temple

>> No.11302203
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>Graphic enough to make her leave, apparently, even knowing it was a mature game before hand.
Exactly, you don't have a clue and you're filling in the gaps and deciding "That's the only way it could have possibly went."

It's down to the group could have bitched him out if they felt he was in the wrong, and gotten him to possibly apologize to the girl. While he may have done something very stupid, everyone does at some point.

It was just cowardly and juvenile to go behind his back to the call the police, because the group was too chicken shit to confront a problem themselves. Or they could have simply left.

I dare you to find a psychologist that would agree this was a definitive symptom of a rapist. It was nothing less than a giant leap of uneducated logic.

With that said I'm going to wash my hands of this thread and the terrible individuals in it.

>> No.11302204

>white knight
I don't think this even means anything anymore.

>> No.11302206

I wouldn't call real life grimdark. I think that's an abuse of the term. Unfortunately I do realize I live in a ghetto compared to most people who can afford this hobby. I see a lot of fucked up shit. It's just normal to me now.

That said, I told you to each his own. I was merely representing why some people prefer radical realism. And they're not as few as you would suppose- that's a familiarity bias. I wasn't arguing that radical realism is superior- merely explaining why some (namely me) prefer to go that far.

To reiterate the first fucking sentence I said:
"And once again /tg/ fails to realize the continuum..."

>> No.11302208

Hermaphiordites, and most likely extremely augmented cybernetic bodies.

As an example, Matoko has 4.5 millions times the skin sensitivity of a normal human - hence why her sex-recordings are highly illegal. They can burn out an normal cyborg's sensory system. Care to imagine what else you can do with advanced cybernetics?

>> No.11302209


Scarred =/= Broken Forever.

Very rare is the person who has the willpower to be raped, and just walk it off. It is a traumatic and life-changing experience, very high up on the "life-changing trauma" scale (and yes, there's a real scale for how likely something is to fuck your shit forever. It's used as a general guideline in psychology)

>> No.11302215


A single person, within a transhumanist setting, can easily experience all four of these options. Given we have a specific word for female homosexuals [Lesbians, which must be a great frustration to natives of Lesbos], I think it's a fair thing to say that when all four can be equally chosen without any impediment, they can be considered distinct. Someone who prefers to be a female and fuck another female is clearly in a different boat than the person into male-on-male or even themselves as a female having sex with a male. It's not that complex.

>> No.11302217

For me, it simply means a HERO. If someone calls me a "white knight" as an insult, then I not only take it as a compliment, but also now know that the person saying it is a VILLAIN and must be hunted down for JUSTICE.

>> No.11302218

>I'm a psychic and I know what went on there while you're making suppositions!

Cool argument, broseph.

>> No.11302219

it means "you disagree with me so I use buzzwords", just like "moralfag", "hipster"

>> No.11302221

Yeah, because the kind of guy who'd graphically descripe the rape of someone's roleplaying persona to them is going to listen.

No normal person would do that.

>> No.11302225
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Whoever here said that rape should be implied rather than explicit, you've got the best idea and compromise here.

That said, you should only include as much detail on uncomfortable subjects as you and your party would be willing to listen to. Most people don't go into incredible, borderline insane detail of the body they just eviscerated.

Coughing blood. Thats fine. Trying to pull his guts back in. Fine. By this point people are thinking something is gritty, but killing is an accepted occupation for your adventurer. It is a fact of life. Rape on the other hand isn't. It may happen, but if it does then everyone who ever liked or loved the individual in question whom was raped will either try to or wish upon the rapist horrible things whilst not speaking of the shame itself. Personal preference doesn't factor into it -- it is not accepted by your culture and society as a player, so unless you wish to give a lesson showing insight into the predicament of one who has been raped, don't make it overly explicit.

>> No.11302226

>>11301913 again
People seem to be missing the point here. It wasn't that any of us were thinking he did it. He was a passive-agressive, pussy whipped little bitch. I'm sure he had the fantasy, hence the whole ordeal at the table. None of us figured he had the ability to actually pull it off.

What it was, was a completely dick move on my part. And I will stand by that. I am gigantic fucking tool. Unfortunately my wife wont let me get a fedora and pin-stripe wastecoat.

Sure, we could have sat him down and talked to him like adults. The rest of the session was spent arguing about it. But that's just not any fun. An idiot who can't see what he is doing wrong needs a practical lesson, and none of us wanted to be the one to rape him.

Oh, and the player who left? That wasn't a chick.

>> No.11302228

but saying quadsexual would mean she is attracted to 4 different genders
there are two genders so this is kind of impossible
but I get what you are saying now

>> No.11302230

.....this does not make it less appropriate in my eyes, but as stated and not denied before, I AM a bitch.

>> No.11302246
File: 2 KB, 126x102, 1254121954413s.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>>11301161 I deal with it in character, just as it should be dealt with. I've gotten a couple of characters killed when the GM realized that he wasn't going to have his jollies.

This is how I've handled it as well. Have the character go down fighting, killing herself if necessary, then have a quiet word to the GM after the session finishes about how I don't want to be forced to roleplay a rape victim & how I think it's creepy as shit for him to try to force one of his PCs do so.

Fuck everyone whining about how it's "realistic": it's realistic for people in pre-antibiotic societies to die slowly over a period of weeks from a tiny cut, it's realistic for people wearing full plate armor to have to shit themselves because it takes so long to take it off... Hell, it's realistic for male prisoners to be brutally raped as well, but nobody ever roleplays any of those scenarios.

>> No.11302250

Not necessarily - it could also be interpreted as "has four sexual preferences". Which as I've pointed out above is totally possible. We associate "bisexual" with "enjoys sex with both genders", when it could just as easily mean "enjoys sex both with the same and opposite gender". Of course, the chance for true gender change in our current society is pretty much nil, so we don't really have context for a person who enjoys sex with both genders from the position of either gender, because that *doesn't happen to people in the modern day*.

>> No.11302253

male in male body
female in female body
male in female body
female in male body

not quite separate "genders", but kinda like it.

>> No.11302254

should have just punched him or something to be honest
then tell him he's an antisocial autistic retard who should be locked in a room
better than calling the police for no reason...

>> No.11302270

would you call the cops on Christian Weston Chandler just for the lulz?

answer honestly

>> No.11302277

don't really know anything about him other than he's some guy /v/ has occasional threads about

>> No.11302283

Thing is, when you're in a transhumanist setting, you're going to run into questions you can't handle with modern logic because they address situations that can't be simulated with modern technology. So you start inventing shorthand. It's a good genre to play with, if only because it makes you actually consider these things - The big ol' "what makes us human" being a big one, although GitS seems to avoid the obvious answer of "I was once shoved headfirst through a vagina" [which isn't an option in a lot of futuristic settings, admittedly, once you get into cloning and vat-grown bodies and simulationist androids]

>> No.11302284

Not that guy, but I would. Well, not for the lulz, but for the small chance that he might actually be locked up and learn something from it.

>> No.11302288


This is why it was generally seen that a woman raped would not consider her life worth living anymore. If you wanted to get rid of her, one way would be to make suicide very easy. Things like this are not pleasant in the slightest and rape works on more levels than someone in armour getting the shit beaten out of them in a fair fight.

>> No.11302289

Well, actually, it probably is more or less accepted by your culture. Almost all successful empires solidified themselves by intermarriage. Who did they marry? The wives of the men they just killed and their virginal daughters. Do you think that was consentual? Hell no. Do you think it was even really marriage? Of course not. But it's how Antiquity and East Asia handled it. I'm pretty sure the same for India, but I'm not as certain. And likely true for Islamic spheres as well. Definitely true for the conquering of the Americas. And you'd be shocked and awed if you realized just how many white people are part African and how many black people are part white- though there was clearly more segregation there.

No- (generally enslaved) concubines were accepted by pretty much every society except maybe Christendom. And even then there were plenty of wenches. It just gets written down as something other than rape, but it's generally well accepted.

>> No.11302290

what did he do?

>> No.11302294

>Hell, it's realistic for male prisoners to be brutally raped as well, but nobody ever roleplays any of those scenarios.

This. Does mister IMA SO GRIMDARK graphically describe what happens when his characters spend a night in ail?

>> No.11302301

Settings shouldn't be handled 100% realistically. Realism helps with making a fantasy more believable, but you have to remember that at its core it is just that, fantasy.

Sure, with all the action going on (princesses getting kidnapped, PCs getting captured by evil dudes, PCs knocking some evil babe unconscious), realistically, rape would be pretty much inevitable. You have to decide if it's something that you want in your games.

If your players like it, then by all means. No one's actually getting hurt. I actually heard about a chick who insisted her character get raped as often as possible, which isn't all that surprising considering that rape is, by far, the favored fantasy of women. Again, note the word "fantasy" here.

If it makes your PCs uncomfortable, then don't do it. If you can pretend that people are able to shoot goddamn fireballs out of their hands or asses or whatever just by saying some strange words and gesticulating wildly, it's not that much of a stretch to pretend that a female that would realistically have been raped goes by without it happening.

>> No.11302302


But it is not talked about. That is what I mean by not accepted. I also referred to not being commonly accepted in the world of the "Players", not the characters.


>> No.11302309

Yeah, we had that fight already.

>> No.11302312

>"a brutal simulation of the hells already here on earth"
You're portraying reality as a "hell", but it's not grimdark? Listen, I understand what you're getting at, kind of, but I really think that "radical realism" should be left to the news. Games are, by definition, a form of entertainment. If your games are so radically realistic that it recalls personal, intense memories of

>War. The Morgue. The Hospital. Prison. Your Uncle's cabin.

Guess what? You're not going to be entertained, you're going to be horrified. Does a game need to be good-vs-evil, go rescue the princess from the dragon herp derp? Of course not. Does it need to be so remarkably bleak that it becomes a horrorshow? Also no. Like you said, it's a continuum. Most sane, balanced human beings are going to pick somewhere in the middle. The fact that you hold up one of the far outliers as a pinnacle of success that makes you somehow better than us "basement dwellers" shows that you're a biased jackass.

As an addendum: using gigantic words in an effort to make yourself sound more intelligent is not going to impress anyone around here. It's going to make you sound pretentious, and prevent you from communicating effectively. Just so you're aware.

>> No.11302324


Good point. And for me I think just hinting at it works fine.

Princess is found chained up in rags with a glazed over expression, really scared and hostile to anyone touching her is better than "LOL GANGRAPE IN GREAT DETAIL"

>> No.11302327

be one of the top 10 creepiest fucks on the internet for several years now.

his dedicated trolls have heated debates on weather or not he would actually rape a girl irl. There are psych reports on him that go either way.

>> No.11302332

Ok burn in hell you pseudo-scientific fuckwad. This genuinely pisses me off to no end- people who warp psychological findings to fucked up conclusions is the reason why it's not respected as a science and rarely is it the scientist whoring himself out.

Look fucker- I call bullshit. DSM4. That's it. Find this fucking scale in the DSM4 or STFU about psychology.

And as long as we're making up facts- about 1/3 women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime. 1/4 before the age of 18. 1/10 men. These are believed to be minimum estimates. These are Oprah stats, and I don't trust them, but take that for what you will. But I will say this- it holds true to my personal inquiry, and of the 50% of the women I know who've been raped or molested, they are all functional people who are not broken forever. That stigma in fact is the main reason they never tell anybody- because faggots like you act weird around them afterwards and treat them as awkward as southerner in south chicago (because he's white and racist and is clearly trying to watch his mouth).

>> No.11302336

You're the second person to beat his posts into the ground. I'm pretty sure he's aware of his follies by now.

>> No.11302337

General /tg/ consensus: OP is an idiot troll. Right up there with the Thought Police anon.

>> No.11302343
File: 149 KB, 1120x1369, nazsol.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Posted mid-typing somehow
You're right though on the fact that rape happened, and that not everyone was going to kill you for it. Hell, that is how warfare is waged in some parts of Africa today. It is a very effective but crude tool of warfare to remind an entire culture that their wives are going to give birth to your children. In Christendom too you'd often wed the wife of the man you killed. Why? Because it was one way of affirming your claim to his lands, or maybe you liked how his wife looked. But that's a little different from rape. Meanwhile, peasants had a mismatch of various injustices to face.

With all of that said, brutality is not always a part of war and many soldiers will be disgusted by rape. Some men took pride in it, others scorned them, and sometimes comrades even killed each other for an act they saw as shredding what little humanity they had left.

You've gotta drawn a line somewhere.

>> No.11302349

Addendum: ITT proof that some people should never be allowed to GM, ever.

>> No.11302352
File: 16 KB, 280x120, plasmoCover.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>This thread
>Rape is pretty ok

Well i'm never leaving the house again.

>> No.11302364

I believe the last time I brought up the DSM I was told "oh fuck you you psycho 101 dropout, that's bullshit".

A lot of little girls get molested. A lot of little boys get molested. A lot of women get raped. A lot of men get raped. The numbers are actually kind of irrelevant. It happens. They learn to survive it, or they don't. Often it fucks them up. Other times they come out of it monsters. There are even times when they become good people.

The thing is, is those are real people. The OP thinks characters should be treated by real people whether or not the players are just enjoying a simple escapism game.

>> No.11302373

>>11302332 about 1/3 women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime. 1/4 before the age of 18. 1/10 men. These are believed to be minimum estimates.

That's just ridiculously inflated. The claim that"1 in 4 girls get raped" is debunked here:

http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_1_campus_rape.html (to save you the time, it was wholly invented by a college feminist group)

And you're claiming it's even higher? Don't be a moron.

>> No.11302384


>> No.11302388

When it comes to things like this, it's better to err on the side of caution.

Even if you are portraying a gritty and brutal world in your games, there is no need to get explicit about something like rape. There are other ways to evoke the right kind of mood.

You rarely know everything about your players.

Someone in your group may very well have been sexually abused or victimized in some way, or someone they know might have been, or they could have any any number of reasons why something like a Rape Scene would make them very uncomfortable.

Real-life issues like that ALWAYS come first.

>> No.11302389

He said "sexually assaulted", not raped.

>> No.11302392

Life is filled with blatantly skewed statistics. It's sad that some people believe them at face value without actually researching or even briefly googling any of them.

>> No.11302394


Fuck you, buddy. If you knew shit about psychology, you'd know the DSM4 is about as useful to a psychologist as a dictionary is to an author. It's a reference book, not a stat sheet of all known psychological phenomena.

And like I said, victims are not usually broken forever, and frequently, they are not broken for even a little while. But it is, assuredly, very psychologically damaging, like losing a spouse or very close relative, or experiencing a traumatic injury in a car crash. It is not usually something that happens and is immediately dusted off.

>> No.11302399
File: 244 KB, 1000x1000, 2a32d1eefa0647bcd01906e42ed1726f.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Sure, GM, you can include rape in your game.

I'm playing a little girl. With a strength of 18.

>> No.11302412
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fuck yeah Plasmo

>> No.11302417

OP needs to die slowly and painfully.

>> No.11302427

I nostalgia'd so hard there. Also holy fuck I just realised that thing looks like a Zaku

>> No.11302439

Most will deal with it. A fair few instances of that "rape" won't be aggravated either, as some people would classify being really uncomfortable and having sex with someone they didn't want to as rape. By that definition I've been raped (as a healthy young male).

But it comes up when physical contact happens. I'm still working to repair the damage that several assholes before me have done. It showed up at first in flinching a little, but thinking this is all that sex is supposed to be. It boils down to breaking a person's ability to enjoy intimate physical contact.

>> No.11302442

Shit happens.

Just deal with it without being creepy, is that really so hard?

>> No.11302448

Fellow Aussie eh?

>> No.11302463

>breaking a person's ability to enjoy intimate physical contact

That's got to suck.

>> No.11302466

You have no fucking idea.

>> No.11302484

I do. You have my sympathy.

>> No.11302486

This entire thread is BABIES. Except for the OP pic and hentai manga.

>> No.11302509


>You rarely know everything about your players.

This is probably why I wouldn't bring rape or the like into my games. I'm all for grittiness to a certain extent, but if there was rape scene it would be Fade to Black or otherwise implied.

Why take the chance of upsetting someone when you don't need to? A good GM will find other ways to create the right mood.

The same goes for players. If you want to play a rapist, fine. You want to describe your rape scenes in lurid detail? Get the fuck out.

>> No.11302513
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>> No.11302514

>Why take the chance of upsetting someone when you don't need to?
See, a lot of nerds see doing whatever the fuck comes to mind as more important than other people's feelings.

>> No.11302519

In any case, you're a jackass for calling my life bleak and hopeless. Fuck you it isn't. Neither are my friends who came back from war. A war you complacent assholes continue to ignore. For that I will call you and every other american a basement dwelling sheltered faggot who ignores the news because it's bad and scary and you're NOT THE ONE DIEING.

However, for the purposes of selecting a game, I do not criticize. But I would like to explain, since your worlds are pretty narrow (and please don't act like it's not because you clearly haven't been there- and I don't begrudge you that- I wouldn't want my kids to grow up as I have). Entertainment doesn't have to be comfortable- doesn't have to be happy happy joy joy. Doesn't have to be triumphant or clean or safe. Suffering, true anger, true sorrow can be entertainment and can be evoked with graphic well informed description. Horror movies continue to make money no matter how crappy they get. And if I had the cash I'd be on top of Call of Cthulu GMing the shit out of madness because I like that.

>> No.11302521
File: 34 KB, 414x368, 1260254177558.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>About 1 in 3 women will be raped in her lifetime.
>About 2 in 3 men will commit rape in their lifetime.

Well, at least that explains this thread.

>> No.11302527
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>> No.11302532

Another reason? Using vivid graphic displays of violence and cruelty can evoke empathy on a previously unexperienced level without actually having to go through with shit. I don't think my players would understand racism quite as well if I didn't subtly treat them like shit when they left their homeland. Many of you glorify war. I teach players there's no glory in slaughter- necessity at best- but more often than not political. And I have no doubt you allow for this much intrigue in your middle ground. But you will not have the same visceral disgust in your players. They will not react with the same fury. You think you can act? When was the last time you got your heart rate up? Got into a shouting match with an NPC? Truly got mad- but in game? When was the last time it was that real for you? When was the last time you were there? When was the last time you cried for somebody who never existed...

except maybe as shards of memories in your GM's past. And that neighbor girl you never talked to. And then you realize this is the human condition.

>> No.11302539

>When was the last time you cried for somebody who never existed...
Last time I read a Guy Gavriel Kay book.

>> No.11302548


You're the one who signed up to die for the rich, asshole. Quit your asspained whining about the bed you made for yourself.

>> No.11302551

Ok- that last bit was sickeningly litcrit even for me. But the point is there IS a point to realism. There is a reason people do it. It's not LOL GRIMDARK. Again- it's the reason some people prefer realistic literature, and others prefer idealistic literature. And furthermore realists are not uncommon. In fact they're dominant in mainstream literature. The thing is /tg/ is mostly written by fantasy literature- but not all of it. These are role playing games. Some people prefer roles they cannot possibly relate with. I try to give players a different kind of experience than dice and light hearted laughs. The same kind of experience I try to give as a (admittedly unsuccessful) writer. And I try to have discourse as well- stimulation- not escapism.

And it's fine- sort of- if you want escapism. It's certainly acceptable as a consumer hobby. The only bound in which it may be unacceptable is in your complacency with world atrocity. But that's liberal guilt- not /tg/ related. And I don't mean to pick a fight with you about that, even if I NERDRAGE about it. Mostly I'm just out to show there is a purpose to sickening realism. It probably just doesn't show up as much in a group of people dedicated to escapism/fantasy/idealism literary arts.

>> No.11302556

haha of course. I meant in RP context. Books naturally.

>> No.11302561

To be perfectly honest I have been a bit perplexed about one thing.

Now I consider myself to be a rather mature roleplayer, but I am still not sure what the rest of the groups opinion on the matter may be, I guess I should ask them, and it's also not me GMing this time around.

Shadowrun campaign I am in, I have a Troll with highly augmented cyberlimbs and around 0,8 essence left (he simply is almost more machine than human).
However, in SR being a Troll is enough to become a social outcast, and considering how the Troll gang was more or less eliminated, he is alone and lives on the streets.
And to add to that, being heavily cybered is enough to make anyone a social outcast and raise eyebrows the wrong way, and for a troll to be heavily cybered, that's an attention grabber.

Anyway, thing is, this Troll is an excellent Wrestler, and has trained within the wrestling martial art since childhood, and with his highly augmented and optimized body is he is more capable of it than ever.
I have however come to the conclusion that being a troll and all and heavily cybered on that being labled as "freak", I wonder what he would do when while being ont op of a women having subdued her.
Considering how he wrestles down everyone whenever there's combat, he would most likely take down many females as well, and considering how it most likely is the only way he would get any, like ever (outside of VR) I guess he would do it, perhaps often even considering how easy rape should be for him.
I mean this guy can now after all the augmentations take a gun shot at his face and wrestle with dragons to some degree, subduing females should be no problem.

>> No.11302563

>in RP context
Uh, never? That's... really not the goal.

>> No.11302564
File: 187 KB, 1024x768, 118436029768.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Which is fine and dandy if your players are into that.

If they aren't, you're being creepy and disturbing for forcing it on them, and should seek therapy.

It's not a jab at you. It's a jab at the OP. Grimdark and gritty is great, to a point as determined by your players. You take it past that point, well, you can expect to deal with shitstorms that you brought on yourself.

>> No.11302570


There's a reason psychologists don't want to discuss the DSM. If the general populace is told "there is a manual that describes all known and recognized mental illness", they hear "PSYCHOLOGISTS HAVE A MAGIC BOOK WITH ALL THE ANSWERS! ANYTHING NOT IN THAT BOOK IS LIES!"

See post >>11302332

>> No.11302579

So should he develop into a rapist?
I think I believe he should, I guess it's whats naural.

I am not quite sure how the rest of the group would react if he repeatidly raped females in every odd or so run.

>> No.11302591
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The circumstances in which rape would be appropriate for the tone and add to the narrative of an RPG are rather limited.

90% of the time, if the GM or a player initiated a rape scene, pic would be my face. I'd imagine chances are good that they're just faggoty fetishists, likely in denial, like OP.

That said, it's not impossible for a rape scene to be useful and interesting, but as a story element its quite a sledgehammer. Way overkill almost all the time, and will never fit well in certain genres (heroic fantasy) common to the hobby. Not to mention not all players nor GMs could handle it maturely and without being disturbed.

>> No.11302596

No, dude. Just... no.

>> No.11302598

Ok, back the fuck up. I raged because I saw Scarred==Broken forever. Missed the slash.

Some do dust it off though. I'd wager more than there is data on because, naturally, they don't report it. But I'm sure there's a debate on it somewhere. And I guess it depends on who you ask. My professors refer to the DSM4 as a gold standard, not a dictionary, and to be highly weary of any disease not strictly held to it's standards.

>> No.11302603
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Psychopaths and rapists and monsters, oh my!

OP is an idiot. The trolls who took over the thread are being silly.

Gaming is fun made of mutual consent and attention to detail in many ways, not just RP ways but personal and social ways. You fail to pay attention,. you get shitstorms and drama.

That's life too, just like OP's "rape is essential" shtick.

>> No.11302618

Well, if he's on Jackpoint and they find out about it, be prepared for your Rep to hit rock-bottom. That's canon; one of the elven magicians who made in-universe posts on there raped an ambassador's daughter while on a magically-active drug and that's exactly what happened. Led to a short flame war before the moderator stepped in and essentially went "We're all professional criminals here. We've all committed crimes. Knock it off."

>> No.11302619

>entertainment doesn't have to be comfortable
Then it isn't entertainment anymore. An ulterior design has come into play.

And don't jump to conclusion. I'm not the guy you're arguing with but I'm not an isolated basement dweller either. My father is old enough to have remembered the war (he sometimes sings a happy little ditty about "pissing in a germans eye" every now and then) and most of my family except the Australian side have served in the army and navy. At least one threw himself in front of a train. One of my cousins got locked up in a Morrocan prison for several years for smuggling. Meanwhile, my girlfriend is a Russian expatriot. I don't have to explain in detail what that entails.

Not all /tg/er who oppose explicit realism in their games are sheltered rich and middleclass kids.

As for why people don't support war anymore? You'll have to convince them that it is theirs. People don't think that they have any stake in war anymore, thus they don't feel as strong as a connection with those going to fight. War is "bad" now, a mistake.

>> No.11302621

Unsurprisingly, OP seems to have problems with the concept of mutual consent in any situation.

>> No.11302631

>>11302619 >same
... and you got to the other motives than just entertainment after I read your first post.

>> No.11302638
File: 893 KB, 1280x960, 121901070134.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I wonder how OP would react to having this scene graphically described for him as he was playing in someone elses game while traveling through other planes of existance.

You do know that Lone Star has antitank weaponry for people like your troll, right?

>> No.11302640

Who else would be on at this hour of night?
And yeah, this is like the one shining decent thing in a shitstorm of a thread.

>> No.11302647

Yeah I must say it might have taken a weird turn somewhere.

At first he was just a huge Troll with family and connection in gangs.
Now the gangs are gone however, and with all the loot he has now been turned to steel.

Anyway there was a remark (when we didn't game) on wether or not he is sexually frustraded, and I figure he is, he is a Troll after all and can't get into contact with any decent looking females.
On his "job" however he all of a sudden wrestles on top of them.

Have never played a wrestler before, didn't really think of this side of it to be honest.

>> No.11302662

Whores, dude.

>> No.11302667
File: 283 KB, 1000x750, 124096339180.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Rape character turned sociopath is a great idea right? I'm sure the GM will LOVE my lolita school girl killing people and eating them. He started it by having her raped, after all.

>> No.11302675

I heard you like to troll so we put a troll your troll so you can troll while you troll.

>> No.11302676
File: 211 KB, 573x800, 126790822634.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

You mean aside from OTHER TROLLS!?!

You're a fucktarded moron.

>> No.11302678
File: 26 KB, 250x250, tastes bad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


Seriously consider what you're asking, dude.

Rape. during/after combat.

What, the party is just going to sit there and ignore the screams while the troll gets his dicking on?

Implausible, pointless, lame.

>> No.11302683
File: 84 KB, 600x512, 126800576538.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Watch out for some of those druids who have been in the wilderness. They get a little strange after a few decades.

>> No.11302696


>> No.11302700


I'd turn it into an ironic twist where he grasps a pencil in his cyborg hand and tries to draw troll porn for himself to fap over.

>> No.11302703
File: 1.27 MB, 1184x1195, 127596206462.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Lets not forget little boys can be rapists too!

>> No.11302707

hmm... one noted source of confusion. I'm a nocturnal amerifag here, and I'm very very anti-war. This Iraq war was insane to begin with and it's insane now. I'm crippled. My buddy's crippled. Austin's dead. Cody's homeless. Yeah it's a mistake, but nobody says anything. Nobody in America tries to stop it. Nobody tries to stop America. And it's America's lower class that suffers.

But that's political evangelism on my part. However I will argue that entertainment does not have to be comfortable. People watch horror movies. People read books that can actually make them sick or unable to sleep (the Green Mile's description of the death penalty by electric chair comes to mind). It's still entertainment.

>> No.11302711

>Implausible, pointless, lame.
That's what I thought.
When I got the question on wether or not he was sexually frustrated I gave it some thought at least.

I mean it's not exactly neccesary and it might bring trouble more than anything else, both in game and outside of it.

>> No.11302723
File: 170 KB, 1095x650, 1161279139276.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

And so can women. That troll rapist might find himself in an awkward position with these two.

>> No.11302724


First of all, I was not criticizing you as a person by referencing life in general as "bleak and hopeless". That comes naturally to those of us with untreated severe depression. If you've seen as much shit as you describe, and manage to come out optimistic, more power to you. As for being "basement dwelling faggots" for "ignoring the news", guess what? This is my turn to call you a jackass. You think that just because I'm not there, I can't be aware of it, know how much shit this world contains? Bite me.

But you're once again assuming that all things which are not "The world sucks, everything sucks always forever, *unnecessarily graphic violent emotion*, gut-wrenching drama" is automatically "happy happy joy joy". For a guy who uses the term continuum so much, you really seem to have no fucking concept of the idea. Guess what? Most people don't want "visceral reactions" and genuine fury at their games. Does it have to be "triumphant and clean and safe"? No, but there are fucking shades of everything. To suggest that anyone who disagrees with your view is clearly a pussy who can go die in a fire just makes you arrogant.

>> No.11302732

Golden Neckbeard, are you Australian?

>> No.11302750
File: 148 KB, 788x700, 1162435784838.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

The key words that ar emissing from your statement are
>it is entertainment that people choose to enjoy
The OP is not giving his players a choice - if they are in his game, they have to deal with his shit, whether or not they want to.

And in most cases, they'll leave, I'm sure. Because he's a creepy, fucked up person in the perceptions of what he has stated.

>> No.11302759

Well, I guess we are in /tg/ after all. And absurd guro fetishes get posted here all the time.

Hell, none of it is for me. I'll admire something if it is clever though, but people who enjoy torture for torture's sake forsake a vital part of their humanity in my eyes. Like Goldenneckbeard, I'd be frowning at you all the way until what you were doing had a point to it.

>> No.11302770

>Just took a look at what other threads are out there.

Someone just started that "you'll never know... lovingly eat your intestines" bullshit again and someone else posted "this is what an elf looks like".

Fuck this. I'm coming back in spring (ausfag).

>> No.11302771
File: 204 KB, 1024x768, 1200833818819.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

And with that, I'm off to go schlick to some rape fantasies in the privacy of my bed, at home, without troubling anyone but you people who have proven yourselves far more perverted than me.

Politics indeed. Positively obscene.

>> No.11302781

It's a spambot that has used to post this shit for about a year now, I'm afraid. You won't get away from it easily.

>> No.11302789


Sorry, I don't confirm or deny geographic details.

>> No.11302790

It was a combination of two of the worst threads plaguing /tg/ right now that broke me. That and the guro being posted here.

>> No.11302792


Fair enough, bro. No hard feelings, eh? I have to admit, I got a bit butthurt when you tried to play the DSM card for the reasons I mentioned here: >>11302570

But, seriously, I very nearly became a psychologist, and I promise I do know my shit. The DSM is a valuable resource, in its own way, but it's very like a gold standard, in that it is only actually referenced directly once every blue moon. Or, as one of MY psych professors put it:

"This is the most expensive paperweight you'll ever buy".

>> No.11302811

the confusion stems from the fact that I'm trying to make 2 points.

Point 1: There is a continuum that is acceptable. The opposite of realism is not happy happy joy joy. I am an EXTREME realist, and I accept that. I am not trying ot say there is no reason to be idealist, or to even have no desire to be a moderate realist instead of an extreme one. I am merely explaining the advantages of the realist end of the spectrum, particularly from the vantage point of an extreme realist.

Point 2: I am a politically enraged fucker. I am enraged that nobody gives a fuck. I am enraged that everyone has forgotten, or if they are aware and do nothing that is even more unforgivable. I am enraged that people do try to hide from what is happening because it upsets thier happy lives (people do this, even if you claim you don't- I'm in no position to say). And the fact that people are complacent when things are this fucked up- that I condemn.

The difference: Idealism I do not condemn in principle. I merely advocate for realisms merits, and accept it there. However whenever people use escapism to ignore real life- to ignore the crimes they consent to by not protesting- by not voicing the outrage they should be feeling but are too occupied in their better life to care...
Do you see how closely associated that is with escapism? It is not the same thing- I recognize that. The fact that they are similar is whence this confusion arises. One is permissible, the other frustrates me, even though I realize that it would be no different if I were in the better half.

>> No.11302812

I can now see a manhunt going on, with angry basement dwellers tearing the shirts off all men with curly neckbeards to see if they match you.

There is no real reason for this.

>> No.11302834

Ha! Hoisted by my own analogy. You're right- our currency is all FIAT now.

Huh. I think an argument was legitimately resolved on the internet.

>> No.11302838

... and it is times like this that I wonder just how fucked up things will have to get before people take to the streets and would be willing to give up something like a months pay or more (or barely anything if you are unemployed and get a burst of energy) and do something.

I guess with so much information and misinformation buzzing about, no one really knows just how much effort they should put into anything.

>> No.11302844
File: 21 KB, 250x250, nuh uh girlfriend.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


In an age where people commonly lose their jobs due to shit they put up *themselves* on Facebook, I make it a point to limit the potential connections between my online and offline identities.

In this particular case, my face is the limit.

>> No.11302872

Just the way every government likes it.

>> No.11302877


... they communicate solely in grunts and other animalistic sounds. A couple of smaller basement dwellers show an unconscious neckbeard to one of their superiors. He consults a photo. Obviously he is displeased, his gestures showing that he does not believe GoldenNeckbeard to have as hairy a chest as the neckbeard before them.

The neckbeard is thrown off a damn into the waters below.

>> No.11302878

Sucks to be you; there are plenty of patriotic Americans who see the war as a good thing. If there weren't, there wouldn't be over a million people in the military.

>> No.11302879


Okay, the only problem I have with point 1 is your manner of presentation, really. By the way you denigrate every game which is NOT your version of extreme realism into automatically being totally idealistic is just sort of generically disgruntling, and very condescending. But, I've kind of gathered that you're a very egocentric person.

As for point 2, I can see your issues here, but what, praytell, do you expect people to do about it? The military-industrial complex, now as always, is so far above the heads, in terms both of economic power and firepower, of the typical citizen that we have virtually no ability to so much as rock the boat, let alone accomplish anything significant. We can "voice our outrage" all day, and you know what the leadership will do? They'll laugh, and spit in our faces, because they have the power, and we don't. I'd love it if I could bring all our soldiers home tomorrow, and end our useless, endless, insane wars. But I can't. So I keep my head ducked and wait for it all to come tumbling down. It's the best I can do. I'm sorry if that doesn't suffice for you.

>> No.11302882

Rest assured, I don't go out of my way to thrust this into games for sick amusement. Nor is it anything for rape or guro in particular. Certainly not a fetish. But when logic calls for it, I spare no mercy. When I need a villain to kick the dog, I don't nerf the kick.

>> No.11302899
File: 25 KB, 478x468, 1275455551927.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


What can I say? Resolving arguments is how I roll. Really should have followed my calling as a diplomat.

>> No.11302934

They make terrible partners.

>> No.11302968

Granted, I am egotistical as fuck. Egocentric... wouldn't commit to that wholly.

And there's a lot more people can do about it. We ended the vietnam war, we can end this one. Stop paying taxes. Shut down entire factories- universities- towns. People gave a shit when they saw babies get napalmed- and we can put a fucking stop to it- even if it takes a while. But nobody sees babies getting napalmed anymore. Maybe they hear about some video going around or some military official getting replaced- but they don't see the murdered civilians. So there's some use in my talking about it.
Hell- you hear me bitching? At least I'm not the fucking Iraqi.

>> No.11302999

Thanks to homeland Security, you pull the kind of things you're talking about, you get to visit Guantanamo with nor reason other than possible terrorist activity.

That's the true measure of how stupid Americans have become. And they think Obama is destroying America? Please.

>> No.11303026
File: 22 KB, 250x250, facepalm.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


I count myself among those who think the consolidation of power and so forth has gotten out of hand, but godDAMN you idiots are embarrassing us.

>> No.11303027

So you'd destroy our country to end the war? Way to go, fuckhead, the Hadjis just won and they'll be over shortly. Enjoy your freedom while it lasts.

>> No.11303045


The biggest problem with wars in general these days is actually the opposite, though. We are so inundated with these constant bombardments of violence and hate, that we begin to lose all compassion for the people depicted therein. It's very similar to going numb from being cold. You can't cure it by turning on the AC.

As for not paying taxes, well, that's the rub, isn't it? Do you think that the government would cut their military budget, or (heaven forbid) fire some politicians? Hell no. They'd start by cutting out everything that prompts the average citizen. Social security, education, welfare. These are the budgets they target. Our government is no longer our ally. They're the mob, extorting us in exchange for "security".

And shutting down factories? There are hardly any in the US any more. All we produce is food and entertainment. Sure, the companies are based here, because they get good tax breaks, but the production is all done in nations with more lax labor laws.

So, I would argue that all we can do is wait. Shouldn't be long before the foundation for all this is too eroded to keep standing anyway.

>> No.11303124
File: 21 KB, 250x250, nigga please.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>Government cuts welfare in response to public disapproval

You really don't get how this works, do you?

It's not their military power that keeps modern governments in control, it's bread and fucking circuses. The people ARE their military power, their everything. Successful governments are so because they keep their constituents happy.

And that's why you don't see much anti-establishment action in the states. By global standards, most Americans live in a life of luxury, and so long as their government keeps it that way there's little reason for the average man to want someone else running the boat.

The guys at the top know this very well. Such a move as you describe would be extremely unlikely.

>> No.11303134

If you have greater insight that reveals the average citizen is not powerless against the government in America, please feel free to enlighten me.

>> No.11303169

Interesting idea.

Too bad it's fundamentally flawed.

>> No.11303181


Not powerless at all. Apathetic, and for good reasons, most of which I just said in >>11303124

Certainly, there are humanitarian and other complaints to be made about them, but at the end of the day the vast majority of Americans lead comfortable, entertained, and relatively unrestricted.

You don't get political uprisings when the populace is living well. You *might* get a "fall of rome" style scenario, but no revolutions.

>> No.11303221


Keeping us scared is far more effective than keeping us happy. They have to be subtle, but undermining public support for protests through manipulating opinions is not unfeasible. They'll never actually go through with it, maybe, but it's always the threat. When the budget started to tighten on Bush, what did he do? He threatened to cut social security. He didn't say it that way, of course, but that's effectively what they did. Want to end the war in Iraq? But then terrorists will murder you! Want to disarm some of our nukes? But North Korea's going to have nukes! And Iran! And they'll blow us up if we don't keep a stockpile! Etc, etc.

>> No.11303228

True enough. However, the government does have the manpower and the newly granted capacity to ignore the standard rules of conduct regarding it's people. True, a large enough mob or collective of people can cause some change, but given that Americans have no rights, such problems are infinitely easier to remove at the source in any number of ways.

People and information are easily manipulated nowadays.

>> No.11303282

>>11302968 Here
The events I just described are merely references to the Vietnam war. People shut stuff down in protest. Non-violent protest. I don't see how referencing history is embarrassingly stupid.
And this complacency is precisely my point. It's what I'm bitching about. Yes, it is bread and circus. But Americans were still a superpower in the 60's. We had color TV when the rest of the world would have shit themselves for a radio. We can rouse our own non-complacency. It's not an absurd idea, although maybe too optimistic of one.
And this indeed is a vexing point, but I'm going to have to refuse to believe it. I'm sure most of the people on 4chan think they've seen it all. They've seen all the gore in the world. They've read the most fucked up shit pedobear has ever done. But I refuse to believe any of that gloss was real for them. I don't think it really got through. I don't think it's numbing. I think it's sock puppets. They know the story with a few shock images of gore and a general idea, but the shock fades. They see a body, but they don't see a dead man. It was never spelled out for them in full graphic horror just how much that death is going to ruin some people's lives.
Maybe that is hopelessly optimistic. Maybe people really are numb. But it's worth the attempt if nothing else.

>> No.11303335

The events I just described are merely references to the Vietnam war. People shut stuff down in protest. Non-violent protest.
And they undercut their country in the process. We could have won the Vietnam War if not for the fucking hippies and the anti-war crowd. Won it by attrition, if nothing else; we were killing them at a 200-to-1 ratio, and America had a bigger population to begin with.

If anything, the problem nowadays is that the people aren't motivated enough to support the war. If only we could regain the spirit we had in other existential conflicts, we might stand a half-decent chance at beating the Hadjis. But we don't, because of traitors like you undermining the populace and selling us out to be second-class citizens to our new Muslim overlords.

>> No.11303357

2/10 troll, try harder.

>> No.11303367

and you know what else, as much as I've been bawwing and raging all over this thread, how the hell can you actually fail to troll me? You should be ashamed dude.

>> No.11303401


You forget that it's always other *people* doing the manipulating, the scaring, and so forth. Those kinds of tactics are short-term fixes that can't save a government with a bored, hungry, or oppressed population.

Take the Nazi's for example. Sure, they were evil as all hell and fucked all sorts of shit up. Sure, they took power by force, but how did they maintain it? They promised economic growth; jobs and food for all, and they delivered it. All the goose-stepping, jew-hunting fear mongering didn't hurt but it wouldn't have even been possible without a bunch of loyal people to monger the fear in the first place... whereupon again we come to needing happy people.

This is why the USSR stumbled and fell where the Nazi government did not. Both contained "chain of fear" elements, but wheras the Nazis also improved the security and quality of life of their constituents, the Soviets did not, and thus it was only a matter of time until the system crumbled. Even jackbooted thugs don't much feel like thugging for you when they can't get a damn tin of beans.

>> No.11306637

There's always rape in our games. But only female-on-male.

Everybody approves.

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