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/tg/ - Traditional Games

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[ERROR] No.11120011 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

I honestly hope this game has a Horde Mode/Last Stand game type, if it did it would be a first day purchase for me.

>> No.11120042

Don't care, all I wan't is an army painter so I don't have to play as a stupid fucking ultramarine.

>> No.11120065

>No helmet
God damn it.

>> No.11120076


>> No.11120088


I'm sure the helmet is optional.

>> No.11120105

If so, you'll see me with jump pack and thunder hammer on fay 1 kicking ass, though admitedly I'm not too thrilled over the ultras being the stars.

Those bastards didn't fight in either siege of terra, so what good are they?

>> No.11120118

If there's an army painter this game is going to be awesome. REVENGE FOR RYNN'S WORLD, FAGGOTS.

>> No.11120123

isn't this some hack and slash shit?

>> No.11120137



>> No.11120142

I hear that.

With DoW2:CR if you registered with THQ you got some additional wargear, including a fucking HELMET FOR YOUR FORCE COMMANDER.

Needless to say I never took it of despite getting better items later on.

>> No.11120148

I do believe this was one of the announced features of the game, in one of the videos about this game. Apparantly they're only using Ultramarines as an example, and co op will allow you to play with other chapters.

>> No.11120155

what is the significance of the no helmet? I don't see why it matters

>> No.11120160

There's only 2 melee members of the demo group I think. 1 had a bolter, 1 a heavy bolter, 1 a thunder hammer, and the last one had chainsword and bolt pistol.

>> No.11120169

All they gave us this E3 was another fucking trailer, assholes.

>> No.11120174

rolled 1, 10, 7, 6 = 24

What game is this going to be?

>> No.11120179

plot armor I guess.

>> No.11120189


Think God of War 3 but with guns

>> No.11120194

It looks stupid and is utterly pointless.

Are we supposed to believe that there is more benefit in not wearing a helmet than there is in wearing one with environmental systems, targeting/navigation information and of course the obvious protection from da dakka?

Naw screw all that, I WANT TO SHOW OFF MY BAHLD

>> No.11120198

better be fucking great for me to spend 60 bucks on it
when does it come out?

>> No.11120200

Space Marine

>> No.11120213



Thats my boy

>> No.11120225

they probably want to show his face so they can get some emotions in, so hes not some faceless dude the player knows nothing about
didn't your guy in DoW2 campaign have no helmet? at least, you could see his face in loading screens

>> No.11120232


It's a common complaint in 40k, Gears of War, and basically every fiction with power armor that commanders and main characters never wear helmets, which is agreed by everyone to be a really fucking stupid thing to do.

>> No.11120236

rolled 8, 19, 17, 13 = 57

What's the name?

>> No.11120248

Hasn't been announced, and I'm sure it will be released on PC by then.

>> No.11120251

Most sergeant and commanders have that bolt in their heads, which is a command implant. targeting/defense/environmental systems is solved with implants(fuck yeah, targeters) and a limited range force field.

>> No.11120256


>> No.11120264

it's just called "space marine"
itl probably bring tons of SPESS MEHREEN kiddies into the tabletop gam

>> No.11120272

His face was the worst part...

>> No.11120284


if i remember fluff right this is not an implant its a service stud denoting X number of years of service

>> No.11120288


>> No.11120308

-If you had a helmet you would not have to breath all this dust.

-Yah but with a helmet I could not spot snipers so easily.

Is a silly point but unless Marines helmet has enchant vision or something well some time seeing better is useful... in some odd and strange way.

>> No.11120310

Thats what we need, moar Ultramarine players in 40K

>> No.11120312

Its funny how many space marines have hair while most seem to just be bald. Maybe they just preffer to go bald.

>> No.11120313

But why go to all that trouble when they could wear a helmet like every other Mahreen? I mean, is there some sort of flaw with the helmets that only Sergeants and up know about, some super secret flaw that would totally piss off the normal Mahreens if they ever found out?

>> No.11120356

If I could ditch regular marine gear for the grey knight equivalent, it would be pure slaughter, even without terminator armor.

>> No.11120393

space wolves hate the helmets because it dulls their sense of smell

>> No.11120418

Oh god, if this ever get's released you know someones going to make a Terminator and Space Hulk mod

>> No.11120424

Don't know how eurogamer is as a reliable source, but here you go. A fat two page interview, where ultramarines are mentioned as placeholders. Ergo, we'll probably have an army painter.

>> No.11120426

>mods on xbox

>> No.11120427


And there stupid fucking beards.

>> No.11120437



>> No.11120438

badassery is having a heavy bolter, stomping someone's head in instead.

>> No.11120474


>> No.11120489

haters will hate

>> No.11120493

Their, anon. It's possessive, there is referring to a location. It's not hard.

>> No.11120499

Or chainsaw the fucker.

>> No.11120544

We all know how this is going to turn out.....

>> No.11120584

Good thing I play deamonhunters then.

>> No.11120605

And why do IG sergeants have to take a las-pistol & chainsword, it would make much more sense if they had a las-gun like everyone else...

>> No.11120671

because when your squad gets assaulted, you have a chance in hell of taking a few of those bastards down with you, plus you look more kick ass waving a sword than a rifle.

>> No.11120674


I want to play as an ork though
imagine the amount of fun that would be

>> No.11120726

where i have never worn a space marine helmet, I have to say motorcycle helmets are a fuckton more comfortable without hair.

>> No.11120785

this game makes me think of that "too human" game that came out a while ago

>> No.11120858

Is there a game play video out there somewhere? All I can find is the two trailers...

>> No.11121048


hope it dont suck as much.


>> No.11121059

got something against ULTRA-FUCKING-MARINES!?!?

>> No.11121152

> ultramarines hate
> ultramarines fanwank
Really, /tg/? Every fucking thread? Fuck you all. Smurfs are a placeholder, stop being a faggots.

>> No.11121273

> army painter
> implying choices choices
> implying /tg/ wouldn't have one real choice of chapter

>> No.11121292

doesnt matter if they are a placeholder, its still generic mary sue space marine shit
wheres my orky vidjagame

>> No.11121364

Too human was rather horrible. This has a different set of lore to build off of(no more cyberspace) and alot more blood and wantom killing.

It'll be multiplayer capable of course, but looks to be pretty good, even if the sword styles look like the ones from Fable(admitedly, there are only so many effective ways to swing a sword).

>> No.11121377

I honestly hope this game actually gets ported to the PC, if it did it would be a first day purchase for me.

>> No.11121388

Orks are an evil, swarm race with little to no knowledge of tactics. Not exactly the most ideal video game characters after all.

>> No.11121434

Fallout 3, man. Just get the right mods.

>> No.11121442

One day Relic will make a huge press release, announce the final release date, reveal the actual chapter to be featured in the game (Ultramahrees are a placeholder), announce features such as the horde mode, Ork conquest mode, the PC release, and a demonette fleshlight in the collectors edition box.

>> No.11121455


>> No.11121459

for an xbox hack and slash, though
they would have lots of customization, great vehicle sections, and of course comic relief
orky third person game with guns and melee would be amazing

>> No.11121490

also, "evil"? I didnt think there was designated "good" and "evil" in 40k
orks wouldnt be evil anyway since they dont do anything for "evil" reasons

>> No.11121494

>Orks are an evil, swarm race with little to no knowledge of tactics
Like the average underage gamer!

>> No.11121495

> Marines are mary sues
> A race with a perfect society, an innate understanding of technology, an inherent psychic field that makes things go their way because they think they should, and nothing to do but fight is totes not mary sue though guys! Certainly not SPESHUL and YOONEEK.

>> No.11121503

Oi! Dem orky boyz 'av plentee ah no-watz! Dah mek-boyz no-watz 'ow tah make deh telee-portas, dah Nobs no-watz 'ow tah krump a beakie boy roight propah, and dah Boss no-watz ow tah show dat Orkez arh dah biggest an dah strongest!
Orks are vilely cunning, and don't mind a bit of pain when they go killing. Just because they don't waste their time learning trivial things like multiplication and the primary colors in a galaxy of war doesn't make them stupid.

>> No.11121510

Upcoming game : Space Marine
Upcoming Movie: Space Maine

Looks like we'll be swimming in blue boys for a while....

>> No.11121540

you dont know what "mary sue" means, brovic
its not just generic, its a character created for wish fulfillment
ultra powerful SPACE MARINES are mary sues

>> No.11121549

this means that every character in fiction is a mary sue
you are a fucking idiot

>> No.11121561

But isn't outrageous refinement and effortlessness one of the core elements of MSdom? Orks don't really have that the same way the super-tactical-genius, uber-combat-trained Smurfs do.

>> No.11121562

They fight and destroy stuff out of boredom. That's psychotic CE if I ever saw it, or at least as long as I don't compare them to the Dark Eldar anyway.

>> No.11121581

not necessarily, Mr. "I am angry and hostile for no reason"
many characters are created to have certain roles in a story or to communicate something

>> No.11121589

You have defeated your own argument. Does anybody here really WANT to be an essentially mindless combat drone jesus freak? They don't have time in their schedule for fapping, bro.

>> No.11121614

my argument was that it would make a fun videogame, so I am not sure how I have defeated my own argument
orks are certainly not wish fulfillment

>> No.11121639

Orks have it more than SMs do. They're born knowing how ta krump and shoot and tinker wiv da gubbins. Marines have to train for decades and practice every moment they're not at war.

>> No.11121662

Aren't they?
They're big and strong.
They don't have to work.
They don't have any moral or intellectual quandries.
They have slave races to do all the undesirable stuff for them.
They're not afraid of death.
Sounds like a dream life to me.

>> No.11121690

but nobody created the orks because they wanted to be them, else they would have made them physically attractive and not stoopid
orkz are just comic relief and exaggeration

>> No.11121698

You can also be murdered by the guy next to you because your group hasn't found something else to fight for too long, because he wants your teeth, or because your Mek gave you a gun that's bigger than his.

You don't have much chance of long life in Ork society. You just don't realize it.

>> No.11121705

also, considering that orks have a low life expectancy because of how violent they are, its not exactly a life of hedonism

>> No.11121710

>orks are certainly not wish fulfillment
Speak for yourself, friend.

>> No.11121764

But if you were an ork, you wouldn't care about any of that. Even if the guy next to you tries to kill you, it is no big deal, cause either you die (so it doesn't count as a loss), you run away to have another go later (still isn't a loss), or you kill him and win. Being an ork is a life without worries my friend!

>> No.11121803

Eh. I still find it hard to admire, given my predisposition to finding contentment in less simple things, like vidyas and conventions.

>> No.11121808

but you wouldnt want to be an ork knowing what you do now, therefore they cant really be wish fulfillment for the people who wrote them ork fluff
look, you would have a low life expectancy in an ork society. there you go. really want to be an ork?

the way I see it, orkz are solely violent comic relief, and this is why they would make a great hack and slash game

>> No.11121814

Ork pleasure centrers are stimulated by gunfire and driving fast and fighting.

>> No.11121830

The joy of orks is that it would be great playing as them, but a proper ork player will still have fun killing them. Cause if you are badass enough, then you give all those green bastards a right, proper scrap, and there is nothing that makes them happier!

>> No.11121837

yes, but KNOWING WHAT YOU DO NOW, and BEING WHAT YOU ARE NOW, you really wouldnt want to be an ork
yes, in the lore they may be happy with their lives, but that doesnt make it wish fulfillment on the part of the author/fans of the fluff

>> No.11121838

> you can't want something completely different from your life. That's not wish fulfillment at all!

Oh wait.

>> No.11121882

generally people wish for something better, but if you fantasy is living in a society where you could die any second for no reason, well whatever floats your masochistic boat

>> No.11121926

dude, are you just arguing with me for the sake of arguing, or do you actually view orkz as wish fulfillment, despite all the drawbacks of ork society? if you do think that, explain why someone might want to live in a dangerous society like that

>> No.11121941

No, if your fantasy is >>11121662 then Orks are for you. There's a big difference between living a life of no worries and constantly being exposed to the greatest joy you could ever imagine, and living a life as a human, but oh by the way you can totes die any day lol. Orks DON'T CARE IF THEY DIE. If you're a person who constantly struggles with the fear of death, what life could be greater?

>> No.11121946


>> No.11121970



For fuck's sake, guys, you've been doing warhammer media for nearly 50 years. Bolters eject shell casings. From the giant fucking slot on the side.

>> No.11121998

Because nobody but /k/ommandos give a shit. "herp derp where is the brass i want to police my brass let me spend an hour in-game picking up my brass." No. Fuck you. There's no shell casings because they're an unnecessary additional detail. They add nothing to the game. Just a fucking distraction.

>> No.11122014

perhaps some people might wish for the life of an ork, but I dont think it proves they are mary sues
most poeple view them as comic relief, they were designed as comic relief(lolspaceniggers)
yes orks dont care of they die, but we do, so why would an average human who doesnt want to die want to be an ork?

>> No.11122027

tabletop models have tiny casings being ejected from big shootas

>> No.11122040

And by the same token, some people might wish to be Space Marines, but that doesn't make them Mary Sues. By the proper definition, there are no Mary Sues in 40k, because everybody hates everybody and nobody leads a life that you would really want to lead.

>> No.11122053

Except if you were an ork, those wouldn't be problems. Orks have ZERO problems with anything. The worst thing that happens is you get bored. Then you get angry and break something, making you happy again. Would I want to live in an ork society as a human? Hells no. Wouldn't be too bad as an ork though. You die, you die, you live, you get bigger muscles to break more things. And that's all you ever need as an ork
Cause if you were an ork, you wouldn't worry about dieing anymore.

>> No.11122079

except that space marines were created to parody mary sues
and still hordes of marines kids jizz themselves when they see the power armor and hear the badass one-liners from the dawn of war games

>> No.11122092

Last time I heard this game was also coming to the PS3.

>> No.11122099

so someone who is scared of death would want to live in a dangerous society where no one cares anyway?
why wouldnt they want to fantasize about a safe society where no one HAS to be scared?

>> No.11122111

Excellent answer! Wendy, open Door number 3, what prize do we have for him?

>> No.11122125

Because they're consummate badasses. They're the best of the best of the trillions of humans in the Imperium. Power Armored super-soldiers have ALWAYS made us, as a culture and a gender, and especially the young'uns, been super awesome. Jackass.

>> No.11122126

Because then they'd be bored.

>> No.11122161

not necessarily, in a super safe society you could have all kind of entertainment options

>> No.11122181

If ork = 1 then scared = 0.
If ork = 0 then scared = 1.
Why is this so hard to grasp? A perpetually scared person, were they an ork, would NOT be scared.

>> No.11122190


But, yeah, I don't see why it wouldn't come to both systems.

>> No.11122199


Space Wolves had the excuse of advanced senses, but even then William King always had Ragnar being forced to put his helmet on by something or other, and made it pretty clear that aside from a slight hit to senses, Ragnar was just being a bitch about wearing it.

>> No.11122206

alright, so we have a scared person
they either fantasize about:
a super dangerous life where they dont care
a safe life where they dont have to care
why would they wish for the dangerous one? either way they wouldnt be fearing death anymore

>> No.11122238

man, live a life with no stress and your only worry is getting to the next fight?

fucking beam me up grotty.

>> No.11122250

Because the dangerous life is a polar opposite to the current, undesirable life. Besides, even if you don't have to be scared that doesn't mean you won't be scared. Fear is not always the most rational of emotions. Better to rid yourself of the possibility of fear than to rid yourself of the causes.

>> No.11122274


>why would they wish for the dangerous one instead of the safe one

Because they're not you. Other people have other wishes to be fulfilled.

Hell, Mad Jack Churchill killed a German soldier in WWII with a longbow, charged ashore on a beach in Norway playing the bagpipes and strapped with a huge-ass sword, and bitched about the Americans dropping the bomb because "the war could have gone on 10 more years easy". He didn't know what a commando was when he signed up, but he took it because it sounded dangerous. The man was a human ork, and logically others like him must exist.

>> No.11122280

then why not wish for a safe life where you feel no fear and are immortal
I just dont see why someone would come up with orksas wish fulfillment
they are pure comic relief

>> No.11122281

>experimental teleporta remateralizes you inside out. Dems da breaks, the system works perfectly after a few tweaks and 6 more volunteers.

>> No.11122292

we are talking about people who are terrified of death, not people who charge into battle

>> No.11122308


see >>11122274

Maybe other people want to have hitting other people and breaking things as part of their perfect life.

Don't be judging.

>> No.11122326

I think the reason is (or at least used to be, no idea if it got retconned) is that the helmets are old as shit and smell like ass.

If you reach the seargeant status you can decide if you keep the helm or not. But no one wants to because they smell like ass

>> No.11122329

Such is life. Of course, dah Mek might have had dah Mad Dok on standby to put the easy to get to brains in some dreads. So now you're wired into a massive killing machine, with metric butt-loads of gubbins!
>why would they wish for the dangerous one?
A safe life is a boring one?

>> No.11122335


But don't you see that some people who are scared of death see shit like that and wish they were him? Because that way you get glory and excitement.

Hell if I know, I'm not one of them and I'd take a safe life every single time.

>> No.11122353

have to go now, so look
for every reason you have listed one might want to be an ork, they could easily come up with a better fantasy to fulfill these things
I get the feeling you guys are just arguing for the sake of arguing, and you would actually want to be an ork yourselves anyway

>> No.11122361


Point is, it's not so hard to imagine that someone who fears death might rather wish to be someone who DOESN'T fear death, rather than just wishing to be safe.

There are different psychological conditions to different humans, my dear anon.
Suppose two people live safe, relatively sheltered lives, but both terribly fear death.

One might say "I wish there weren't so many things that could kill me."

While the other might say "I wish I was badass enough to go out and kill everything else and just not give a fuck."

For the second person, being an Ork is total wish fulfillment.

>> No.11122364

wouldnt* damnit

>> No.11122375

Honestly, I don't really get what any of you are arguing about! Who cares if or why people wish they were orks, people wish to be way shitter things all the time! Is it just so you can define SOMETHING as a Mary Sue or some other label?

>> No.11122376


>you would actually want to be an ork yourselves anyway

Making orks...dundundun... WISH FULFILLMENT!

>> No.11122389



>> No.11122406

orkz arent good for the second person because THEY DONT WANT TO DIE
yes they dont fear death, so maybe someone who both wanted to die for no reason AND didnt want to fear death would want to be an ork
but nobody who DOESNT WANT TO DIE is gonna want to be an ork, they will come up with a badass fantasy in which they dont die

>> No.11122429


You mean they become the biggest ork?

>> No.11122448

I would say that you're the one arguing for the sake of arguing, since you entire platform seems to be based around
that it only makes sense for somebody to wish they could be in a different situation that suits their personality, but not to be a different person with and entirely different personality. Plenty of people are dissatisfied with their own psychological makeup, even if they would never go out and chance it themselves. That's what fantasy wish-fulfillment is all about.

>> No.11122453

yeah, being the biggest ork could be wish fulfillment...but you would still be murdered eventually by something

>> No.11122466

The only thing I care about, is being able to instead play an Ork and kill thousands of space marines.

If I can't, then the game's shit.

>> No.11122485


Ghazghkull's still kicking.

>> No.11122503

Well, on the off chance the thread will stop being retarded again:

What other chapters do you guys want to play as? I have a well known Space Shark fixation.

>> No.11122518


Celestial Lions or Red Scorpions, all the way.

>> No.11122525

Can you, at least, use SOME semblance of capitalization, grammar, and punctuation? Please?

>> No.11122548

Lamenters would be pretty cool. They don't have ATSKNF and doesn't afraid of anything.
Also, Dark Angles.

>> No.11122569

Hawklords, that is all

>> No.11122614

Crimson Fists!

>> No.11122654

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I have grown attached to Gabriel Angelos. Or Howling Griffons. Thats cool too.

>> No.11122683

Black Templar here!

>> No.11122686

Iron Hands.

>> No.11122702


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zasqw znlt tezbrwhivym arqrgt xi

>> No.11122707

Need I say it?

>> No.11122719

I want to play as an Eldar witch who goes undercover posing as a Space Marine using her vile powers and unwillingly falls in love with her bald Sergeant

>> No.11122746

I think you and I are shit out of luck, then. For anyone who doesn't want to play a space mary-sue... you just get shafted.

>> No.11122755

Makes me rage because it reminds of a DH player I had once, who rolled Arbitrator, and his whole backstory was that "I'm not actually an Arbitrator, just a guy disguised as one." All because he wanted his character to be some kind of rebel. It's the same reason he loves the Dark Angels reverently.

>> No.11122763

rolled 16, 53, 29, 7, 50 = 155

good job orks, you look kinda gears of war

>> No.11122795

I kinda want to base a character around that now.

Maybe have my guy borrow an Arbitrator's armor, and then through wacky accidental hijinks wind up working for the inquisition.

>> No.11122801


>> No.11122806

>Dark Angels
>Not like they're emo bitches!
You need a new friend.

>> No.11122817


>Dark Angels

He is gay and craves your mancock. Give it to him.

>> No.11122827

Tell you the truth, I'd love to, but he also has the esteemed status of being the only person in the group to willingly play a girl. Not even for giggles, it was in CoC. She was the wife of his former character who was looking into his death. He was also the only person in our group who considered Maid for even a second.

>> No.11122847

Irresponsible Inquisitor Taylor?

>> No.11122857

> I can throw out the term mary sue even though it shitted up the thread for half an hour last time it was used lookit me am i cool /tg/?

>> No.11122878


You should have had an Arbitrator find out about it and had a kill-team come down on his ass.

>> No.11122884

Well, problem solved. Awesome.

>> No.11122925

I'm a bit late to the party. but I believe that the lack of a helmet makes it easier for his squad to pick him out in a fast paced melee. The same reason many regimental leaders in the old days either went hemetless or rode on horse back. Its to make let his men know where to rally to.

>> No.11122942

That's what they have the banners for.

>> No.11122948

Go look up the term 'canon-sue'. It practically spells out Space Marines.

>> No.11122958

You know what else lets you do that? An icon on your HELMET's tactical HUD. That you have in your helmet. Which you WEAR.

>> No.11122970

the banners are for MOAR RECOGNITION

This is 40k we're talking about. 40,000 years in the future we use World War 1 tactics to fight giant green men and over grown goth kids.

When does anything actually make sense?

>> No.11122988

Hey, I didn't claim it makes no sense to wear helmets, I just noted the "they don't wear them so others can pick them out in combat" theory doesn't make sense.

>> No.11122989

but then it wouldn't be as "fuck yer im an invincible mary sue in space" no would it?

>> No.11122996


Let's call the whole thing off!

>> No.11123007

The only thing more appalling than using WW1 tactics to fight a races of Incredible Hulks and Goths, is for the vast majority of the fucking game's development time to be spent on minor variations to a overhyped poster-boy army.

>> No.11123023

Here's a better idea. How about we don't and their fan-base just admits that their feeding the cancer that is killing 40k?

>> No.11123025

I wonder if the Codex Astartes addresses the helmet thing.
Or perhaps Rowboat Gillman just forgot to add that one.

>> No.11123030

Why is that space marine wearing a rosarius?
He is no chaplain, thats fucking heresy

>> No.11123034

I'm only going to play this game if it has Army Painter.

Then I'm gonna make Resonable Marines, only Reasonable Marines.

Because really, the best way to troll 40k is with logic and sensibility.

>> No.11123039

but christians in space are so cooooooooool

>> No.11123045

A Canon Sue is a canon character with mary sue traits:

Let's break it down.

> an idealized version of the author mainly for the purpose of Wish Fulfillment.
We already established the life of a Space Marine is most likely not a wish fulfilled for much of anyone.
> She's exotically beautiful, often having an unusual hair or eye color, and has a similarly cool and exotic name.
BALD and generally with latin or greek names, just like everyone else in the setting.
> She's exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas, and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting.
Space Marines exist for war and only war. The single MOST common skill in the 40kverse.
> She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws — either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing.
Far from it. Space Marines are indoctrinated, merciless, and often distant from those they protect. They are ruthless and know no life but war. Hardly idealized.

more inc

>> No.11123086

>Far from it. Space Marines are indoctrinated, merciless, and often distant from those they protect. They are ruthless and know no life but war. Hardly idealized.

Not to mention that the Salamanders are the only chapter that actually gives a damn about the rest of humanity.

Everyone else is all "BURN HERETICS AND FUCK UP ANYTHING THATS DIFFERENT" While the Salamanders RELIEVED an Imperial Guard regiment to due menial rear guard duty.

fucking space bros.

>> No.11123094

>Not to mention that the Salamanders are the only chapter that actually gives a damn about the rest of humanity.

Space Wolves dude

>> No.11123111


> She has an unusual and dramatic Back Story.
Genetically engineered super-soldiers. Hardly overdramatic, considering that Orks and eldar were designed by an alien master race, Necrons are the product of star gods, and Tyranids are a bioweapon gone mad.
> The canon protagonists are all overwhelmed with admiration for her beauty, wit, courage and other virtues, and are quick to adopt her into their nakama, even characters who are usually antisocial and untrusting;
Marines are more feared than admired, almost as much as the =][=nquisition. They are no longer human.
> if any character doesn't love her, that character gets an extremely unsympathetic portrayal.
Not true
> She has some sort of especially close relationship to the author's favorite canon character — their love interest, illegitimate child, never-before-mentioned sister, etc.
not applicable. This is a canon character.
> Other than that, the canon characters are quickly reduced to awestruck cheerleaders, watching from the sidelines as Mary Sue outstrips them in their areas of expertise and solves problems that have stymied them for the entire series.
This can be said for any protagonist, of any race, in 40k fiction or codex. If the work is about Space Marines, it's focused on them. If it's about Guard, you can expect guardsmen to tear the shit out of Marines should they come into conflict (see Gaunt's Ghosts ripping the shit out of half a dozen Chaos SM despite having no ammo for their guns).

>> No.11123118

Either finish justifying the Smurfs using the TVTropes entry, or don't start at all.

>> No.11123145

> justifying
Nope. Just proving that, once again, /tg/ has no idea what Mary Sue means and throws the term around at anything they don't like.

>> No.11123182

Wait a second, hang on. Wouldn't a Space Marine technically be a Mary Sue wish-fulfillment type character to the commonly accused, unfamiliar-with-canon 12 year old boys who start playing them? I've rarely seen the Mary Sue title used unless also mentioning they are all played by 12 year olds who think they're hardcore.

>> No.11123184


The part your forgetting is that in 40k everything is grimdark.

Even the Mary Sue's.

>> No.11123188

Ork game. A game which rewards you for grabbing a plane and smashing it into the enemy headquarters, surviving, yelling at the top of your lungs, and flipping out on people for as long as your limbs move.

I'd buy FIVE.

>> No.11123198


dammit I can't believe I did a your/you're mixup

>> No.11123205

I think that is just the Iron skull or something, which is a fairly common symbol in the Imperium. I'm looking at a pair of terminator legs with it right now.
>Space Marines exist for war and only war. The single MOST common skill in the 40kverse.
That's like calling "science" a skill. Unlike everyone else, Space Marine excel in EVERYTHING, from shooting, to driving, to prediciting the weather. And if they don't, they can just kill someone that does and eat their brains.
>Far from it. Space Marines are indoctrinated, merciless, and often distant from those they protect. They are ruthless and know no life but war.
>BALD and generally with latin or greek names, just like everyone else in the setting.
Not the named characters, who would probably be the people fans wish to be.

>> No.11123216

Wish-fulfillment is NOT the only criteria to be a Mary Sue. Read the goddamn posts. Besides, ANY race could be wish-fulfillment to a 12-year-old with no idea of the fluff. Because it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GODDAMN FLUFF.

>> No.11123219

> She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws — either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing.

Umm... this alone practically spells them out. Flaws? What flaws? I don't see any. In fact, it's excessively hammered home that they do not have any flaws at all. This alone breaks the 'Hero' archetype in which they are portrayed. The closes thing to a "Flaw" that space marines are supposed to have, is that half of them fell to Chaos during the Horus Heresy. Ok great... That makes the half that fell to chaos more 'heroic' due to actually showing a flaw in their character. The rest? Nope... they're 'Pure'.

Here's some more quotes from the definition that emphasizes Marines as Canon-Sues:

>or a seeming inability for the character to do wrong. Examples include Wesley Crusher and Amanda Rogers in Star Trek: The Next Generation.

>"Mary Sue" always wins a fight or knows how to solve the puzzle

God, that's CLEARLY not marines at all... and this is in no way a sarcastic statement...

>These characters have few problems while attempting to achieve their goals. "Everything goes her way" is a common criticism regarding "Mary Sues", the implication being that the character is not sufficiently humanized or challenged to be interesting or sympathetic.

And finally... the clincher:

>"Mary Sue" was expanded to include any author surrogate or OVERLY IDEALIZED CHARACTER who plays a big role in original fiction as well as fan fiction.

Please note, in giant fucking caps...

>> No.11123245

But think of it this way: What would you rather be, based off what the armies are presented as:

A sinister looking, slender human with curvy guns and no muscles.

A scrawny human soldier with a tiny gun.

A greenskinned dolt.

A robot.

A huge musclebound mongoloid with enormous pauldrons and a gun bigger than your considerable chest.

>> No.11123250

> That's like calling "science" a skill. Unlike everyone else, Space Marine excel in EVERYTHING, from shooting, to driving, to prediciting the weather. And if they don't, they can just kill someone that does and eat their brains.
And how's that any worse than Tyranids, who can evolve any weapon they need, or Orks who build things with no knowledge of the associated mechanical or scientific disciplines?

> Not the named characters, who would probably be the people fans wish to be.
Even the named characters.

>> No.11123257

Necrons, the one race which was able to oppose the Old Ones, an alien race that made other races to fight for them. The participants in an intergalactic war dubbed "The War In Heaven." Necrons who do hold more power than even a SPESS MAREEN who can't be stopped short of utter annihilation of their tomb world. Who can bend space and time and have a good FTL method that doesn't rely on the Warp. Who were made by star gods who were in existence before the God-Emperor.

>> No.11123279

> think of it this way: would you rather be
> one of four poorly described strawmen
> a poorly described but slightly more favorably portrayed strawman?
Would you rather be:
a guy who only has fifteen minutes a day of free time?
a guy with a life expectancy of fifteen hours?
a guy whose culture permits, and even encourages, murder?
a beautiful, elegant maaster of the arts and sciences, living on a floating space-paradise, who will never truly die?

>> No.11123300

...as GW puts it forth with their marketing machine that emphasizes the 'Right' decision to make...

I hate space marines, and even I originally fell into the 'new-gamer' trap of making them my first army because I was led to believe they were 'better than everything else' originally. I almost completely quit the game, until a red-shirt asked why I didn't just try a different army. My response was 'there's something other than space marines??? when did that happen?'

>> No.11123305

Well, strawman is the usual 12-year olds view of thing he has no idea about.

>> No.11123306

Now, let's agree that the real Mary Sue race is kender, which were the only race able to unite all the other factions of W40K. United against them, but whatever

Now where is that kender rage macro?

>> No.11123315

Every race looks Sue-ish if you only look at their good aspects.

>> No.11123338

And that strawman is STILL not a representation of what the army ACTUALLY is. That's like saying "Well, everyone seems to think Obama's a communazi terrorist hawaiian foreigner african racist uncle tom, so doesn't that mean he really is one?"

>> No.11123341

Yes, but the role Necron's fill is that of super-horror badguys with no personality at all.

Basically super-strong mooks.


>> No.11123348

>herp derp, I'm assuming that eldar are even presented to newcomers who are first getting into the game

dream on buddy. The vast majority of new 40k players don't even find out about the 'other races' to the game, for weeks or months after they've committed to their starting army. Got to your local GW. Find someone who has just got into the game, and has less than a month's worth of exposure. Ask them about what they know concerning Eldar, Tau, Necrons, Orks, Nids, etc. Then ask them about what they know concerning Space Marynes. Do this about 10 times... And see if you detect a pattern.

>> No.11123368

Except that that has NOTHING to do with the discussion. This isn't about what GW tries to sell. It's about whether Marines are sues. They're not.

>> No.11123380

Space Marines are unbelievably Mary Sue. If you objectively look at their characteristics they're pretty decent, I mean the fact that they're fascist inhuman freaks should outweigh all the Mary Sue shit, but the way they're portrayed...

>> No.11123384

Space Marines are absurdly overpowered, but they exist in a universe where everything they're up against is just as ridiculous. It's all gravy cause even being a twelve foot tall power armored demigod won't save you when you're up against alien terrors the size of freight trains, super-resilient, hulking, green humanoids whose only love is war and who reproduce by the thousands in spores each time they kill themselves on you.

>> No.11123388

> the imperium
> good guys
hardly. They're humans, but paladins? Especially space marines. Space marines are DICKS.

>> No.11123409

And what exactly are the 'not-so-good' aspects of Marines?

15 minutes of free time. Oh wait, they're supposed to be holy monks or something. Relevance in game? None. Liklihood that it's even a known 'downside' at the time of someone's initial commitment to marines? Not likely.

Half of them went to chaos. Ok. So that makes the half that fell to chaos portray flaws of some kind. Makes the Chaos Legions seem more... interesting.

They kill lots of dudes and exist only to kill dudes. And so does any action or video-game hero, including James Bond, Gordon Freeman, Master Chief, Neo, etc. Relevance? None whatsoever. Killing lots of things, and existing purely for killing lots of things never hurt Conan's popularity.

>> No.11123428

... is, as I've said repeatedly, no more outlandish or ridiculous or over-the-top than the way Catachans are portrayed, or how the Tau manage to survive despite being in the middle of a galaxy of huge, sector-spanning buttfuck empires. EVERYTHING is a sue by normal standards in 40k, but the definition of a Sue is that it stands out among its contemporaries and competitors. Marines don't.

>> No.11123434


>> No.11123451

Necrons and Nids are bad self-surrogates.

Imperial Guard is laughable (Barring notable figures such as Ciaphas Cain, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM.)


Soroitas are obviously batshit crazy.

That leaves the Orcs, Tau, Eldar And Spess Mehrens.

I don't think anyone's claiming Orcs are sue-ish, and DE are too damn evil, so they're out, that leaves kender, goodie two-shoes and the spartan-II's.

Out of them, I'd argue elfdar and captain humanity are more heroic, larger-than-life characterters, while the tau are more appeasing, morally, but are less individualistic.

>> No.11123462

Here's a major difference. Catachans and Tau actually lost several wars. The casualties they loose are also mentioned.

Fuck... have you ever read Rynn's World, or any of Black Library's other 'sue' novels. They retcon the fluff from previous editions into 'the enemy only manages to kill maybe a tactical squad at the most, while dying by the thousands'.

>> No.11123473

> Relevance in game?
not significant in deciding whether something is a Sue.
> Half of them went to chaos. Ok. So that makes the half that fell to chaos portray flaws of some kind. Makes the Chaos Legions seem more... interesting.
Also makes life more interesting, and increases conflicts, for the remaining loyalists. Unless you're > implying that the Heresy didn't have any negative effect on the loyalist legions.
> popularity.
Not relevant to whether something's a sue.

>> No.11123482

That's how imperial proaganda protrays them, anyways.

>> No.11123502

I can spot some SM flaws from a mile away. Flaws associated with entire chapters, never mind the individuals. Dark Angels are weepy bitches, along with the Lamentors.

Ultramarines, the "Biggest sues of them all" are practically brainwashed by their own codex and struggle to adapt in situations not covered by Guilliman, or to adapt new tactics which would win them the day, if it meant defying the codex.

Black Templar are practically skirting on being eliminated by the Inquisition with their propensity to flip everyone off and not obey the Codex in any fashion. They also hate everyone, alot. Almost at Khornate levels.

Really, you're retarded. That's what I'm saying.

>> No.11123513

> space marines never lose a war ever
cool story bro.
Rynn's World? 90% of the Fists died.
Hive Fleet rapes Smurftown? A Pyrrhic victory for the Marines at best.
Raven Guard in the latest IA book? RAPED.
And if you're reading a BL book, whoever the book is about will win an overwhelming victory. Remember that time when twelve Gaunt's Ghosts demolished an entire planet's worth of Chaos leadership? Remember that time that Cain? Remember every IG book ever? Protagnoists get plot armor. That's not being Sues. That's being protagonists.

>> No.11123529

> propaganda
Ah, yes. Long noted for its factual accuracy, amirite?
Not a valid source of information re: whether something is Sue or not.

>> No.11123534



>> No.11123577

Popularity has nothing to do with whether something is a Mary Sue, but Conan is certainly 'heroic' and only his sheer killing power comes across as remotely sue-ish. However he suffers injuries (a lot), and looses his fair share of fights. None of which are things that happens to marines per their background. Read the 4th or 5th ed codices and look for every instance in which they actually loose at anything. Oh, and before you mention Crimson Fists, bear in mind that their wholesale slaughter went from just that to a 'Lol a looted Deathstrike did it, and otherwise the Orks didn't amount for many casualties at all'.

The only influence the Heresy had on the loyalist marines, was the division of them into chapters and the seperation of their command in the form of legions.

And while the relevance game-wise for the "15 minutes of free-time" may not have any bearing on whether or not they should be deemed 'sues', the argument that it's a "flaw" also has no bearing. 15 minutes of free time? What kind of drawback is that? "I'm sorry Sergeant Perfect McShinyTeeth, but you don't get a free hour from killing people with your finely honed combat abilities that are the best in the universe!"

>> No.11123651

Before it was a looted deathstrike it was "one of the plasma missiles from their own defense batteries accidentally most of their munitions stockpiles."
It went from them doint it to themselves to... them doint it to themselves. Read the Rogue Trader book. Fists fuxxing themselves up is older than dirt.

The flaw isn't that they only have 15 minutes of free time. The flaw is that they can literally not spare a moment's time from their constant pursuit of war. The "one 15-minute break for potty all day" thing is just what really showcases how little time they have to spare.

You know what happened to the Marines after the Heresy?
The Emperor got incapacitated, and he was the only one with the know-how to fix Marine gene-seed, dooming the Marines to a slow, rotting death from the inside out as the very thing that makes them great slowly twists and mutates. If that's not a flaw, I don't know what is.

>> No.11123669


Imperial Fists - fucking butchered in the Iron Cage.

The Blood Angels - might actually be fucking vampires, also BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD... EMPEROR'

Iron Hands are just as fucked up as the Adeptus Mechanicus where it comes to cutting bits off of themselves and replacing them with metal. Also they definitely don't give half a fuck about the rest of humanity, I remember them executing one in three people on a world after they fell to heresy.

>> No.11123689

Executing one in three of the LOYAL citizens who were left alive. AFTER massacring the whole planet fulla heretics.

>> No.11123699

still going huh?

>> No.11123712


Thanks for the fix, it's too late at night right now.

>> No.11123730

> space marines never lose a war ever
>Rynn's World? 90% of the Fists died.
Actually, that's how it USED to be. But it was retconned. God I wish it was still "The Crimson Fists got their ass-kicked and lost". But it turned into "The Crimson Fists lost a shit-tonne due to a freak event, but still came out victorious"

>Hive Fleet rapes Smurftown? A Pyrrhic victory for the Marines at best.

Marines won.

>Raven Guard in the latest IA book? RAPED.
Because it's written by FW, not Black Library, Matt Ward, Jervis Johnson, or Phil Kelly. And it makes me like FW MORE for actually letting the marines loose something for once.

>And if you're reading a BL book, whoever the book is about will win an overwhelming victory.
>Remember that time when twelve Gaunt's Ghosts demolished an entire planet's worth of Chaos leadership?

Only a handful of Chaos marines, and Chaos Marines are not Loyalists. In fact, the you're referring to (Traitor General) makes specific mention of Loyalist Marines being needed to combat the Traitor Marine Legions.

>Protagnoists get plot armor. That's not being Sues. That's being protagonists.

Then here's a thought for you. Go ahead and count up every BL library book series that doesn't have marynes as their protagonists. Go ahead... I'll wait. Now count up how many books focus around other races/armies. IG and Chaos Marines are second, btw. Eldar and Tau are a distant 3rd. Nothing exists for Orks, Necrons, Dark Eldar... or damned near every other non-maryne army. Well, some garbage exists that may have those armies in it (i.e. Rynn's World), but they serve as little more than a punching bag and always die by the thousands.

There is one small glimmer of exception. Deff Skwadrun is the only thing to ever emerge from Black Library that is worth reading for an Ork fan. Everything else is trash unless they're interested in guard or Marynes.

>> No.11123769



PLEASE GOD MAN. Lose is what you do at sports, loose is your dad's asshole.

>> No.11123779


>Imperial Fists - fucking butchered in the Iron Cage.
Not in their version of it. They were victorious and slaughtered the Iron Warriors, after which Dorn went to brood in his tower for months on end over how his brethren have fallen.

>The Blood Angels - might actually be fucking vampires, also BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD... EMPEROR'
You know what else is a Vampire? That guy in Twilight.

>Iron Hands are just as fucked up as the Adeptus Mechanicus where it comes to cutting bits off of themselves and replacing them with metal. Also they definitely don't give half a fuck about the rest of humanity, I remember them executing one in three people on a world after they fell to heresy.

Hmm... might explain why I actually like the Iron Hands and how they're the one loyalist chapter that I don't despise. Couldn't possibly be because they have the same flaw as the Adeptus Mechanicus, could it?

>> No.11123801


Imperial Fists - serial masochists with deep-seated guilt complexes.

>> No.11123811


True... I suppose maryne assholes wouldn't be loose even with all the homoerotic going on... with those steroid-shriveled cocks of theirs.

>> No.11123823

> Actually, that's how it USED to be. But it was retconned. God I wish it was still "The Crimson Fists got their ass-kicked and lost". But it turned into "The Crimson Fists lost a shit-tonne due to a freak event, but still came out victorious"
Fists were always the canon winners of the Rynn's World campaign.
> Marines won.
And Tyranids can afford to lose a whole hive fleet at the cost of 200 marine lives and still come out on top in the deal.

> Because it's written by FW, not Black Library, Matt Ward, Jervis Johnson, or Phil Kelly. And it makes me like FW MORE for actually letting the marines loose something for once.
Space Marines. Lost a battle. It is canon. Your argument is invalid.

> Only a handful of Chaos marines, and Chaos Marines are not Loyalists. In fact, the you're referring to (Traitor General) makes specific mention of Loyalist Marines being needed to combat the Traitor Marine Legions.
They might have mentioned it, but did those loyalists ever show up? No. A dozen Ghosts armed with one power weapon, a detpack, a dozen lasgun shots, two packs of chewing gum, and half a roll of duct tape demolished six Chaos Marines, who if anything are MORE sue than Loyalists because they also have ten thousand years of experience and daemonic gifts.

> a majority of BL fiction is about humans
Imagine that. People want to read about protagonists that do not have completely alien mindsets, or protagonists whose idea of a good Friday night is a razor blade orgy followed by intravenous drug use and eating raw kittens. If I wanted DE fic, I'd read Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. If I wanted Tyranid fic, I'd read Starship Troopers and skip all the parts about the Mobile Infantry. I want to read about humans because I'm a human. We have common interests, motivations, feelings, and mindsets.

>> No.11123826

On what grounds? None of that is portrayed in their fluff.

>> No.11123842

Fuck it. You're a troll, I've got class tomorrow. As fun as this has been, please jump off a bridge now.

>> No.11123863

My work here is done!

>> No.11123913

For those of you pissed off about the lack of helmet, please think of this.

An example of why one would not wear the helmet was given in the Horus Heresy book dealing with the the Emperor's Children.
A lot of the weaponry that is used by the xeno out there, packs such a punch that if you were hit in the head you would lose that head, regardless of whether you had a helmet on or not. Also, the helmet can limit their vision, and this would only get worse if the helmet were damaged in any way.

I think not wearing the helmet in a ship vs ship battle would be dumb, but within the atmosphere its not a big deal. As long as they can still communicate to the extent that they need, it makes little difference.

>> No.11124130

>Also, the helmet can limit their vision,
Then make a better helmet. Or is gaining 5 extra degrees worth of sight better then a HUD, various modes of vision, Etc.?
>and this would only get worse if the helmet were damaged in any way.
Then you take it off. It isn't superglued to their heads.

Also for "Dem xenos weapons too powerful for our helmets!" the same can be said of modern day combat armor. Yes, a direct hit is going to kill you, helmet or not, but something that glances your head that might be bad for your squishy bits might be stopped by that layer of Ceramite over your face.
I get it that some models/art have Marines without helmets to characterize them, and yes, in the course of a battle your helmet can buy a farm for you, but no marine in their right mind would drop into a war zone without their helmet. Paint their power armor a new color is insulting to its machine spirit, could you imagine saying a part of it was useless?

>> No.11124234


Back to your Index Astartes, my boy.

>> No.11124305

>Why no helmet for space marine?
Because their skulls are made out of adamantium and their balls are the size of cantaloupes.

>> No.11124583

And you'll know any mods will get C&D letters from GW and THQ.

GW HAET player creativity, and THQ will want to sell that shit as DLC.

>> No.11125052



>> No.11125317


Sergeants don't get Iron Halos, you fucking moran

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