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10927471 No.10927471 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

So, Tau.
I read their 4th edition book and they seem really cool. They use sensible combat tactics, they seem both morally questionable and still remain the closest to 'good guys' you'll find in 40k. I haven't ran a shooty army before either, so it would be a good change for me!
I'm gonna need your guys help though, specifically, what units suck and what are awesome? What things should I focus on (I know shooting, but more specifics)?
I gather that Marker Lights are awesome and whatnot, but I've never ran an army that uses an armoury before (played 'nids 3rd edition at the time), so it's a hella lot confusing to me. Could you guys help me out?

>> No.10927486

And as a curious bump, Ethereals. They're either the benefactors of the Tau race or secretly space popes that are mind controlling them into doing their own bidding. Has anything been mentioned about what they are exactly, or their goals beside the greater good?

>> No.10927487
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10927487

>Tau

communists

>> No.10927513

>>10927486
Xenology (should be on rs) implies they were made by the eldar but the guy is being driven made by the necrons so who knows.
inb4 hoof drama

>> No.10927536

>>10927513
I like the hooves, or whatever. Should be interesting to paint.

So yeah. Railguns seem powerful, and I get the feeling I should grab as many as possible.

>> No.10927555

>>10927536
Nah, the artist from xenology fucked up and drew feet on the tau which has prompted cries of it not being canon since it was published.

>> No.10927564

>>10927555
Imperial propaganda, we assure you. Hooves are all part of the Greater Good.

>> No.10927574

>>10927555

40k canon is a funny thing. Near as I can tell, a source is only canon if it supports your theories and is declared non-canon if it invalidates them.

>> No.10927588
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10927588

>specifically, what units suck and what are awesome

...No, too easy.

>> No.10927603

>>10927574
Codex and black library are canon. The problem is that they contradict one another sometimes.

>> No.10927604
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10927604

>>10927588
>OP asks for general advice on a new army
>called a troll
wat

>> No.10927615

>>10927574
Just about everything from third edition on is still canon and a good part of second. It only becomes non canon if specifically invalidated by a codex from a non in universe perspective.

>> No.10927647
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10927647

>>10927604
>doesn't get that the poster is saying it would be too easy troll the OP.

>> No.10927655

They haven't handle the edition change that well

>> No.10927672

>>10927471
I'll try and make a useful post for you, OP.

In terms of how to build your army, Tau are very, very shooty. Things like crisis teams and broadsides offer a good firebase and anti-tank/anti-heroics fire, while firewarriors can lay down a nice anti-infantry spread. The problem is in close combat, so get yourself a nice kroot squad or two to send flailing at the opponent's beefy melee squads.

Basically, play like your suits are tanks, your infantry can't move, and your kroot are expendable.

And know the armory like the back of your hand. That's where tau can get absolutely broken.

>> No.10927674

>>10927471
Good:
Battlesuits, the whole lot of them
Railguns

Bad:
Sealth Suits (although they can have uses, they are rather expensive and useless if you are new)
Etherials
Close Combat in general

The backbone of your army should be your Heavy Support slot which you fill with as many hammerheads,broadsides as you can.

Also the Devilfish that you have to buy for your pathfinders doesnt have to stay with the pathfinders during the game.
After deploying use it to keep a firewarrior squad mobile since the pathfinder wont move that much anyway.

>> No.10927686

>>10927674
I was wondering about the Ethereals, and what use they were. Do they have any use?

>> No.10927703

>>10927471

My knowledge of Tau is somewhat slim, but here it goes:

Crisis Suits are, in my narrow experience of about 4 games, fuckawesome. They can be equipped to deal with anything, and the "standard" package (Fireknife, I think? Plasma Rifle+...Rocket pods? I can't remember) can put out a lot of hurt.

Etheriels are unuseably bad. They're, by far, the worst unit in the codex. Don't even consider touching them.

Railgun Hammerheads always filled my HS slots, although if some anon has had good experiences with Broadsides, then they may be worth taking, too.

Kroot are...interesting. They're not great melee, but they're an okay and cheap tarpit unit. Not much else.

As for general strategy: Stay mobile and don't try to "Out-gunline" another ranged army. Tau are pretty bad right now, and almost anyone (orkz included) can outshoot them point-for-point.

>> No.10927717

>>10927674
Stealthsuits, however, are pretty awesome in Killteam.

>> No.10927719

>>10927686
Nope.

The only use they have is to look cool and give a fluffy backbone to your army.

I personally wouldnt field them even if they would give me 50 extra points.
no weapons, no saves, no thanks
Especially since half your army may very well start doing a tea break if the Ehterial goes tits up.

>> No.10927728
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10927728

1. Make a wall or half-circle of kroot (depending on map and pointcost). When I say wall, I mean WALL split the fucking map in half.

2. Place your shootas sensibly (read; Spread out like a fucker or put everything in a corner) so you won't get a landraider / x3 dreadnought in your firing line.

3. Don't buy transports to everyone single unit like everyone else is doing, just wall up and be safe. Use the points for more long ranged anti tank.

BAM, you've just denied two meta tactics (deep strike/transports). No one will play you because matches take 3 hours and you will own everyone because you made tau work reliable against allcommers..

Don't shoot the messenger.

>> No.10927730

So far:
Ignore ethereals. Battlesuits are awesome, deck them out. Railsguns are awesome, get them everywhere. Krrot can be used to tarpit melee models. Hammerheads are cool.
Marker lights, are they worth it?

>> No.10927751

>>10927730
More kroot.

Read >>10927728

>> No.10927762

>>10927728
This sounds incredibly... a dick of a tactic. I'd like to play and have a good chance of winning like everyone else, but what's the point if I don't get a good game out of the other player?

>> No.10927788
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10927788

>>10927728

>> No.10927795

>>10927730
Marker lights are totally worth it. They can up the BS on an entire squad of faggots, they're pretty amazing.

>> No.10927803

>>10927730
Generally, yes. Some people prefer pathfinders over marker drones, but I've had mixed results. So far, the best tactic people seem to have is to hide the pathfinders in deep cover that they get into with the scout move (Or outflank with them), and use the souped up devilfish somewhere else in your army.

Stealthsuits with markerlights and marker drones cost about the same, can fire on the move, and can shoot other stuff at the same time. It all depends on your style of play, and how your opponents play.

>> No.10927816

>>10927730
Kroot are awesome especially in the woods.
4+ cover save in the jungle? Yes please.
Infiltrate them somewhere in the jungle and they stay there for a very long time.

>Marker lights, are they worth it?
They are pretty neat but not really overly necessary in lower point ranges.
I would say get your pathfinder team but dont give any other units additional markerlights since most of the time a few of them always go to waste. In my opinion at least.

>> No.10927834

>>10927762
Tell him/her to stop spamming transports and/or deep strikers and your opponent will be on somewhat even ground with your mighty Tau army, though you'll still be controlling the entire match from behind your kroots with rails and missile pods.

If anything you'll shape up the meta-game around your locals

PS old school imperial guard artillery-infantry makes for epic matches.

>> No.10927838

>>10927672
>The problem is in close combat, so get yourself a nice kroot squad or two to send flailing at the opponent's beefy melee squads.

Yeah, that doesn't work. Kroot never win the initiate race against dedicated melee squads (or even basic SM). They also have no armor save whatsoever. They get slaughtered before they even get to attack.

>> No.10927846

>>10927803
>Stealthsuits with markerlights and marker drones cost about the same

not to mention that when you make the additional 6" move away from your enemy he wont be able to hit back singe the max range you can engage a stealthsuit is 36"

>> No.10927847

>>10927788
Always fun to pull that one off.

>> No.10927849

Okay, I'll try to get as many marker lights as possible. How many points should my upper limit be for upgrading crisis suits and the likes? I can get into the habit of really pimping out units, draining points away from other units to deck out a few special ones.

>> No.10927870

>>10927838
>>10927672

Then gunline. Let them kill your kroot, and unleash hell on them the turn after.

Kroot is only there for keeping the wall up, and when your opponent assaults he'll be in exactly the right range

>> No.10927890

>>10927849
>I'll try to get as many marker lights as possible

Get more guns first.
You dont need more markers than you have railguns or similar heavy weapons.

>> No.10927905

>>10927890
On the subject of how many guns, are Fire Warriors my main choice for infantry, and how many do I really need?

>> No.10927915
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10927915

>> No.10927920

I'd recommend on having single purpose suit squads with straightforward weapons.

TL pods for transports and so on.

>> No.10927928

Pathfinders does well for markerlight bonaza, you just have to get them into cover fast, somewhere where they can reach just about everything without moving. That's their biggest problem.

Their obligatory devilfish does best loading up some kroot or firewarriors the 1st round.

Also, never never ever underestimate drones. I've seen the twin gundrones drones from devilfishes and hammerheads do sicked twisted things, such as hold of 10 boyz + a nob for two rounds.

Also, drones as ablative wounds for your suits is always nice.

>> No.10927929

>>10927905
Fire Warriors arent all that great for the point cost.
They can still dish out a lot of hurt though.

I personally only take the minimum number of fire warriors (6) and spend the money on heavy guns and kroot instead.

>> No.10927952

>>10927870
Tau is not a gunline army. That's the IG. If your're not using your mobility to keep away from the enemy then you are playing it wrong.

What you should be using for a tarpit is XV9's. They are still very deadly at range with their 8 rending shots per model, but can easily hold up to even dedicated melee units for several turns. They also have the advantage of being able to charge a jump pack melee unit to tie them up, whereas the kroot would just get hopped over.

And since the XV9's have the hit and run rule you can try at the end every one of your opponent's turns to disengage (and you have a 50/50 chance at it) saving the XV9's to fight another day, while still giving you a full turn to shoot at the CC units with everything you have.

If at the end of that the CC units are still alive and a threat, you can just charge them again with the XV9's to tarpit them again.

>> No.10927953

Is anyone else a bit miffed about ethereals even being on the battlefield? Age of heroes and stuff be damned, Tau is a sensible military machine compared to the Imperium. You don't put what constitutes as the President on the frontline and hope your troops will fight better - what's more likely to happen is that everyone is so worried about the President that they will fight even worse.

>> No.10927960

>>10927929
What he said. Let kroot take objects for you instead -after- you've blased half his forces off the map.

Hint; Opponents rarely target kroot to wipe them out, you'll have more then half left come round 4

>> No.10927970

>>10927928
Drones are the pluckiest fighters in the universe, this side of grots.

I've seen a Shield Drone kill an Avatar in close combat, over a number of turns. It was hilarious.

(Many passed invuln saves by both the host suit and the drone, the suit didn't hurt the avatar, but that friggin' drone kept on getting 6es)

>> No.10927977

>>10927952

No, with the latest Imperial Guard codex, you are more likely to see mechanised veteran lists with heavy vehicular support rather than imperial guard gunlines.

Tau does excellent gunline job due to their long range.

>> No.10927983

>>10927928
>Their obligatory devilfish does best loading up some kroot

Can't put kroot in devilfish.

>> No.10927988

>>10927849
Fireknife is the most points for a weapons loadout, but consider missile pod/burst cannon for guard or orks, and burst cannon/plasma rifle for MEQ armies with little to no vehicles.
Alternatively, use Crisis suit loadouts to compensate for weak areas in your firepower, which are normally MEQ anyway.
Also, consider mech Tau anyway (this is coming from someone who hasn't played 40k since 4th edition though, not so cluey on how 5e affects vehicles and troops-elites-heavysupport points distributions though.

>> No.10927995

>>10927983

WHAT?!

>> No.10927997

>>10927983
Yes you can. You can't START them in Devilfish, but you sure as hell can put them in afterwards.

The problem lies in having squads of kroot small enough to FIT.

>> No.10928023

>>10927952
Tau does gunline better then imperial guard by far though (if only for the kroot), and instead of playing "fluffy" how about winning?

Mobile tau gets ripped apart by equally mobile mech MEQ (5th ed), if we want to win, we've got to use the old codex to our advantage.

>> No.10928032

>>10927997
This. The Devilfish rules only say that you can't have battlesuits in it.

Note that they don't say anything about the Krootox taking up extra space also. Krootox aren't the greatest, but having two pile out of a devilfish and unload is always amusing.

>> No.10928040

>>10927928
also nice to remember that drones have I4 and therefore hit before the rest of your Tau and even Kroot in CC.

>> No.10928069

>>10928032
I thought you could only purchase a Devilfish as a dedicated transport for Firewarriors/Pathfinders, so it can only carry the squad it was attached to? Goddamn things have changed.

>> No.10928082

>>10928069
You can only buy them as transports.

Why would you want kroot in transports anyway? They are cannonfooder.

>> No.10928097

>>10928069
Yes you can only purchase it for pathfinders and fire warriors.

That doesnt keep anyone else from using it though, it just has to deploy with its troops.

And no this is nothing new.
This rule exists since the 3rd edition or maybe even longer.

>> No.10928113

>>10928069
Yes, they have. Dedicated Transports now, like was said before, could only start the game with it's attached squad in it, but it can taxi around anything else that fits in it with impunity afterwards.

IIRC, the only exceptions to that are Black Templar (Or was it Dark Angels?), because their vehicle rules specifically state that only the unit it was bought for could use the transport. And codex trumps rulebook.

>> No.10928141
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10928141

>>10927513
>but the guy is being driven made by the necrons

>> No.10928143

>>10928097
>nothing new
It didn't work that way in 4th edition. In 4th, they specifically said you COULDN'T transport anything but the unit that bought the transport. It was a huge thing when it changed in 5th.

>> No.10928171

>>10928143
Remind me, what did they change with force-org charts? Isn't there a minimum troops-elites ratio that fucks over the Tau unless you go kroot spam?

>> No.10928181

>>10928171
Force-org charts haven't changed.

>> No.10928190

>>10928171

That's fantasy, not 40k.

>> No.10928199

>>10928143
my bad. I havent played 4th edition.

But it was that in way in 3rd edition and 5th edition.

>> No.10928202

>>10928171
No troop-elite ratio at all.

Unless you mean as per meta, you need kroot to make most elite units viable.

>> No.10928206
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10928206

Rifles Vs Carbines is an interesting choice for your Fire Warriors. Rifles are the obvious choice for open battlefields. They have a 30" range when fired stationary, plus, they can rapid fire at less than 12". Don't overlook the carbines though. The 18" range and assault designation means they are fantastic for assault teams who like to keep mobile. Good for harassing enemy objectives, and staying just out of range of 2 rapid fire range. Against stuff like necrons (especially with thier 500pts standard setup) and a tac marine battle line they're pretty good, and work well as bait for a Mont'Ka. Make sure to team them with some markerlights though. 1 hit to boost their BS, the other to lower the enemy leadership for pinning tests. Do this right, and you can neutralize high threat enemy squads relatively quickly.

>> No.10928259

>>10928202
Thanks, must have been a vicious rumour then.
OP, go for as many Crisis suits that you can fit in your list, and consider magnetising the weapons for more flexibility.
Re Carbines: Carbines make sense on foot squads, but Firewarriors in a Devilfish were made to have Pulse Rifles. Look up the Fish-of-Fury tactic, it's the lynchpin of Mech Tau.

>> No.10928272
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10928272

Bump, for the greater good.

>> No.10928276

>>10928206
18" on a 4+ unit? Assault squads? Pinning tests?

How about you shoot twice as much a few times at him, instead of getting shot to pieces by bolters.

Yet to see any variant of "pinning army" or even "pinning squad" viable in any form of play, friendly or not.

Well . . . apart from eldar anyway.

>> No.10928290
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10928290

>>10928206
Cont.

There's a huge temptation, I find, to "JUST TAKE AS MANY RAILGUNS AS POSSIBLE AND BLAST THE SHIT OUT OF THEM"
Bear in mind that broadsides, while incredibly effective, only get one shot with that railgun, and assuming it hits, that's one kill. They work best as vehicle/hero/monster hunters, and are near useless against mobs of infantry, though you can just switch to your SMS for that. It's usually always worth taking one, but you might be better off sinking your points into something better suited to the enemy you're facing. Necrons and marines get torn up pretty nicely by sniper teams, and nids fall to the massed firepower of your light arms (also templates- try deepstriking twin linked flamer crisis teams near hordes of gaunts. Fun times)
Getting back to railguns, the Hammerhead is your other option for that- with the bonus that it can fire submuniton rounds, a somewhat weaker, but large blast weapon- one of only two in the tau arsenal. Don't overlook the Ion Cannon though. The extra hits it churns out can be great for adding more wounds to big stuff.

>> No.10928296

>>10928259
Fish of fury is redonkulously good, and the magnatization is the only way you can make your crisis suits adaptable. A $5 set of magnets can make it so you dont have to make five million crisis suits with all their different loadouts, but just six or so.

>> No.10928301

>>10928259
The rumour is party true though, as I've stated before massing kroot is the only way for Tau to compete at any reasonable level.

Unless you want them elites to go pop every turn you'll need a blanked of kroot to hide them behind.

>> No.10928326

>>10928290
regarding "RAILGUNZZ"

The basic idea of the railgun nowadays is to pop the transports just as you said. And then kill whatever is inside with the rest of your firepower.

SMS is still good though.

>> No.10928346

>>10928276
I don't know what point you were making with the first bit, but pinning can work. Another way to do it is to deepstrike Gun Drones near them. You need the markerlights to back it up though, otherwise they'll pass the pinning test. If it works on an enemy close combat unit, that's an extra turn you can pump rounds into them.

>> No.10928367

>>10928296
W0rd. Tau player here; magnets are god tier.

One particular unit I'm fond of is three crisis suits with twin linked flamers and six gun drones; deepstrike within LoS of a pathfinder devilfish for the re-roll, and then let 'em burn. A bit expensive for a high-risk unit, but ridiculously fun. Nothing quite like deepstriking right next to a drop pod, opening up with the flamers, and then gunning down the two survivors with the gun drones.

>> No.10928381

>>10928346
It was just a summary, basically it boiled down to the close range tau is fodder for everyone toting a bolter.

>> No.10928384

>>10928367
Plus deepstriking is cool.

Problem i have with MEQ's is they always seem to save 90% of the wounds.

>> No.10928407

>>10928381
Ah right, well that's a given. What I meant with your carbine teams is stay more than 12" away from bolters and suchlike, so they can't rapid fire you. I've found some players will be so desperate to close the distance that they'd rather move and not shoot at all.

>> No.10928418

>>10928407
That just means you're playing against bad players.

>> No.10928423

Tau army building guidelines:

HQ:
>Crisis Commander - You're required to take at least one. Do it, give him Plasma and Missiles.

>Bodyguard - More Crisis suits. Take em if you want to.

>Ethereals - Fucking No.

Elites:

>Crisis Battlesuits - Plasma + Missile + Multi-Tracker x 9 = Elites are done.

Troops:

>Fire Warriors - You have to take at least one squad, so just take a 6 man squad and call it a day. You don't even have to buy a Devilfish, since they can 'jack a Pathfinder Fish.

>Kroot - Take 10 Kroot and some Hounds per unit. They chill around your firebase, cockblocking assault and deep strike routes.

Fast Attack:

>Pathfinders - Take a unit, stick em in cover. ALWAYS give their Fish a Smart Missile System so you don't give away Kill Points through the Drones.

>Piranhas - Fusion Blasters and Targetting Arrays. RUn them forward and block movement, blast transports away, whatever the hell you want. You can take 2 Piranha squadrons and 1 Pathfinder team, or 2 Pathfinder teams and 1 Piranha squadron.

Heavy Support:

>Hammerheads - Always a Railgun. I like Smart Missiles, but that's just my preference. Disruption pods are a must.

>Broadsides - Hang back and watch the tanks disappear. I like Advanced Stabilization so I can move them around if I have to. As with Fast Attack, you can go 2x Hammerheads and 1 Broadside Team, or the other way around.

>> No.10928426

Also, protip: Buying the skyray kits is actually better than DF or HH kits, as you can actually construct all three vehicles from the same kit. Yes, the skyray comes with the full HH sprue as well. With a bit of magnetisation, you can make ridiculously multi-role vehicles.
And before someone mentions the DF burst cannon, if you magnetise the HH turret and the burst cannons you can mount it on the turret, and hopefully you wont get any BAWWW from it.

>> No.10928447

I suppose there's no harm having a squad dedicated to hamper the enemy from assaulting.

Though I prefer dedicating hordes of kroot for that purpose.

What's your view on kroot over fire warriors?

>> No.10928484

>>10928367
Where can I get magnets like this?

>> No.10928496

>>10928484
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/

>> No.10928502

Also, what's /tg/'s opinion on the Farsight Bomb? Still only good for lulz?

>> No.10928507

>>10928502
Farsight bomb?

>> No.10928513

>>10928447
Kroot, I like in concept, but haven't been able to use them effectively yet, though I think I'm just picking the wrong targets. I tend to take a squad of Kroot and a squad of FWs for my troops.
I've heard of people using Kroot as tank hunters: they outflank behind enemy vehicles, then rapid fire them in the back. There's gonna be a couple that roll sixes, usually enough to stop the vehicle for a follow up assault later. I think some people just assault straight off, then laugh as their kroot eat tanks.

>> No.10928566

>>10928507
Farsight with a full 7 suit retinue doing deep strike, Shas'el Commander with Positional Relay to make sure they turn up when you want for deep strike. And some padding. Other player got nervous when I only had 400 points of troops on the table in a 1500 point game >:-F

>> No.10928586

>>10928513
I don't outflank Kroot. As a general rule, I buy them in squads of 10 Kroot, 7 Hounds. Whenever I take casualties, I remove from the Kroot so I can get majority-initiative 5. I don't really use them for mainline combat so much as secondary mop-up, or to Run so they end up about 1" away from a superunit, so that it has to chew the Kroot up rather than being able to zip forward to kill the big guns.

Remember 50% cover. You don't have to bunch them up in the same forest. It's legal to keep half in a terrain-piece, half out in the open, generating a mobile cover wall for your Crisis Suits. Those suits can jump in front of the Kroot, fire their guns, then jump behind the Kroot, maintaining a cover save while denying one to the enemy.

By using Infiltrate (they are the game's cheapest Infiltrators), they can serve as a picket-line to push back the legal infiltration/scout zones of units like Genestealers or Imperial Guard gunships, buying a turn against stuff like the Demolition Veteran alphastrike. Or they can form a wall and deny outflank. Or dick over the legal areas an army can derpstrike to, guarding against stuff like Termicide or Blood Angel derpstrike armies.

>> No.10928605

>>10928586
>Remember 50% cover. You don't have to bunch them up in the same forest. It's legal to keep half in a terrain-piece, half out in the open, generating a mobile cover wall for your Crisis Suits. Those suits can jump in front of the Kroot, fire their guns, then jump behind the Kroot, maintaining a cover save while denying one to the enemy.

goddamn. why didnt I think of that?

>> No.10928606

>>10928423
How much of this shit do I want twin linked?

>> No.10928620

>>10928566
Farsight bombs are absolutely hilarious, though they have a tendancy to backfire spectacularly against melee centric armies. It's only a viable option against IG, shooty eldar, or other Tau. Any other army will tear you to shreds.

>> No.10928622

>>10928606
none

>> No.10928651

Check the Warhammer 40k Tactics: Tau section on 1d4chan. It has decent advice, if a bit snarky and opinionated.

>> No.10928665

>>10928622
Okay, what's the reasoning behind no twin-linked weapons?

>> No.10928680

>>10928665
You get three hardpoints. One for the missile, one for the plasma, and one for the multi-tracker so you can fire both at once.

I find twinlinking stuff like burst cannons to be pretty effective, and especially twin linked flamers.

>> No.10928682

>>10928665

Less shots for more points, as well as taking up two system slots.

>> No.10928693

>>10928665
More Dakka is generally better than twin-linked dakka. Part of this is due to how Torrent of Fire works in 40k (It's better to use *a* unit force a *lot* of wounds on a squad, rather than two, as it means you're more likely to force saves on hidden models/sergeants/specials).

In general, the only twin-linked weapons in a Tau army are your Broadside Railguns.

>> No.10928696

>>10928665
As a general rule, two of a weapon is strictly better than one twin linked.

>> No.10928712

>>10928665
You only have place for 3 systems.

if you twinlink this already takes up 2.

The only things I would Twin Link are Fusionblasters or Flamers if you decide to deepstrike the suit close to the action.

>> No.10928713

>>10928606
Twin linking is a trap, you're better off getting a Plasma Rifle + BC/MP/FB with Multi, unless you really want targeting arrays/Target Locks. That said, team leaders with Targetting Arrays instead of Multis and having a hardwired Multi instead are fairly good tier.

>>10928620
If you get that suicide bomb thing you can handle a close encounter with a melée heavy army. Just remember to have PR+FB or BC suits only, and I reckon that it's rather playable. Especially against Orks :3

>> No.10928725

>>10928693
>the only twin-linked weapons in a Tau army are your Broadside Railguns.

And Pulse Carbines

>> No.10928736

Okay, cool. My Shas'o is going to have a Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod and a Drone Controller (as well as Stimulant Injector). I was thinking Marker/shield, but I can't for the life of me find the points cost. The wargear states they're 0 points, does that mean you can get 2 for basically no points, or have I missed something?

>> No.10928751
File: 12 KB, 426x362, blocking.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10928751

>>10928725
For Piranhas Drones that is.

One thing to remember for Tau players is that Codex Trumps Rulebook. So long as one weapon is allowed to fire on a vehicle, the Passenger Gun Drones may fire as well. This means a Piranha could move 12", and its Drones can still fire at stuff.

Piranhas are pretty handy for cockblocking enemy vehicles (pic related), delivering melta, or zipping forward 24" and delivering Seeker Missiles to side/rear armor. They can also lock down the movement of enemy infantry, delaying them for another 2-3 turns (and giving your guns more time to kill them).

>> No.10928753

Addendum for Pathfinders: Be aware that anyone with some experience against Tau will want to kill them ASAP.

>>10928620
And even those armies can do some pretty mean things to the Farsight bomb. All it needs is a single unit in CC to bind down that huge breaker unit, especially if they get charged from such an angle that Farsight himself isn't in base contact.

>> No.10928759

Anyone got experience with twin-linked plasma rifles on Broadsides? What would be better to take with them, multis, targeting arrays or ASS? (Adv. Stabilisation System)
I haven't played Tau (or 40k) in ages. Fuck I'm nostalgia-ing hard.

>> No.10928772

>>10928736

Drones are in the Wargear list.

While Drone Controller is indeed free for XV-8s and Stealth Teams, the Drones cost is under Wargear.

If I recall, Gun Drones are 10, Shield Drones are 15, and Marker Drones are 30.

>> No.10928791

>>10928772
Thanks Shas... o
Fuck now I get your name. Well anyway, I think this combo will be good. What do you think?

>> No.10928794

>>10928759
>Anyone got experience with twin-linked plasma rifles on Broadsides?
If your opponent plans on deepstriking termies in your face they can be usefull. otherwise too expensive for something you will never use.

>What would be better to take with them, multis, targeting arrays or ASS?
depends on your playstyle. If the area is wide open ASS isnt that usefull. targetting array is decent but maybe a bit overkill since your guns are already twinlinked.

>> No.10928800

>>10928751

I still hate Gun Drones on vehicles. It's just another kill point. If in a kill point game, should you wish to take a piranha, it's better to take the upgraded piranha and thus ditching the gun drones.

>> No.10928802

>>10928759
Generally not worth it. Too costly, especially when you consider you'll be firing your Broadsides at tanks most the time anyway. If you're in rapid-fire range, chances are you're going to lose the Broadsides anyway; for stand-off anti-infantry, 4 S5 shots>>1 TL S6 AP 2 shot (especially before you take coveer into account).

>> No.10928822

>>10928736
Okay, don't go with a Shas'O, go for a Shas'El with Targetting Array, two weapons and a hardwired Multi. That's the minimum.
Drone Controllers: They are free (unless hardwired) but you MUST purchase at least one drone for it. Drones cost points. I would go for Shield drones, look at the codex rules for them. Gun drones are shit tier on crisis suits compared to them.

>> No.10928835

>>10928822
Previous anon located here: >>10928423 has suggested stuff to me. Why not Shas'o though?

>> No.10928839
File: 27 KB, 300x380, Ahmadinejad convinces 2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10928839

>>10928791

Well, my recommendation on a generic commander would be Plasma / Missile, HW Multitracker, (Should you desire, HW Drone Controller w/ 2 shield drones), and Stim Injector.

From here, you have one slot left. You can take shield gen for if the drones die, or you can take Positional Relay if you rely on reserves, or you can take VRTs if you know you're up against an assault army. My personal choice would be the shield generator.

I also advise looking at the Cyclic Ion Blaster. It's debatable, but when I ran a generic commander, I always used one.

>> No.10928842

I quite like going for burst cannon and Cyclic Ion Blaster/Airbursting Fragmentation Projector for my Shas'O. With a multi of course. Tends to get a lot of kills very fast.

>> No.10928864

>>10928835
Yer gonna want to stick a Shas'el in a unit, or give him a Crisis Bodyguard at higher point levels. If you're using Markerlights to buff the unit, his BS 5 gets wasted (since Markerlights can only raise BS to a max of 5).

>> No.10928870

>>10928835
He's not worth the extra 25 points unless you want to throw him into CC. A Shas'El can get an extra point in BS to make him a Shas'O equivalent with 10 points spent on a Targeting Array. Trust me, a Crisis Suit is NO good in CC whatsoever. The only things in your list that should be in CC are drones and kroot.

>> No.10928873

>>10928864
Fair point. I'll keep him as a Shas'el.

>> No.10928882

>>10928864

Every time I have seen a generic Shas'o, it was alone as a one-man support unit. Every time I have seen a generic Shas'el, he was attached to homies, as a group support unit.

I prefer the versatility of the Shas'o.

>> No.10928893

>>10928839
Multitrackers only work in vehicles, right? Or do crisis suits count as them for the purpose of a HW multitracker?

>> No.10928912

>>10928842
Airbusrting frag projector is overkill on a Shas'O, as it isn't taking advantage of his BS5. Better to stick it on a Shas'Vre in a bodyguard or Elites choice squad, that way the cost isn't as wasteful for that precious BS5.

I would go CIB + Plasma + targeting array on a Shas'El with HW multi, and optional drones.

>> No.10928913
File: 247 KB, 1138x296, MT.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10928913

>>10928893

The Battlesuit Multitracker is different than a Vehicle Multitracker.

>> No.10928938

My new Shas'el is going to use: Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Drone controller (marker/shield). He comes with a Stimulant Injector and a HW Multi Tracker, for a cost of 140 points. I think he should be fine if I ever use him.

>> No.10928958

>>10928938

If you Hardwire the Drone Controller, you can take one more system. Although for a cheap commander, it seems fine as is.

>> No.10928980
File: 349 KB, 1000x1300, 1252770364349.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10928980

Ah a thread on Tau related things. I've got a few questions of my own.

1. Are Drones considered "Tau" units? As in can they benefit from markerlights?

2. When I buy a Devilfish transport for FWs, it does not say that fire warriors take it as a dedicated transport. Does that mean the Devilfish is a troop choice in it's own like a Land Raider is to the Space Marines?

>> No.10928987

>>10928980

1) Yes.
2) No.

>> No.10928996

>>10928958
Could give him a Targetting Array to boost him up to BS 5, but with the Marker Lights I'm not sure how useful it is. I guess I could marker light for my other units.

>> No.10929003

>>10928938
Magnetise the fucker, and consider hardwiring the drone controller to get a Targeting Array instead in low points games with less markerlights. Also, I would discourage the use of a marker drone, Pathfinders are fine.
Also, did the Independent Character rules change in 5e? If not, run him as an IC jumping around just behind your units, they can't target him due to priority IIRC.

>> No.10929018
File: 22 KB, 336x400, 1276617787552.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10929018

>> No.10929035

>>10928996

XV-8s and XV-9s eat markerlights like a crackbaby needs its fix. Your commander should not be using the markerlights in my opinion.

>>10929003

Real line of sight. They can shoot him, he gets a cover save from his homies in front of him.

>> No.10929147

>>10929035
Ah, so that's how they solved it. The more I look at 5e, the more it looks like they only want to strengthen MEQs. Or am I confusing that with GWs main strategy.
"hurr durr, let's maek muhhreens bettar for teh trildon"

>> No.10929170

What's the opinion on Devilfish?

>> No.10929186

>the closest to 'good guys' you'll find in 40k

Why do people say this?

>> No.10929198

How many battlesuits (including broadsides) can I usefully fit into a 750 point list?

>> No.10929235

>>10929186
Because everyone else is a shade of grey or black, and the Tau actually want a bit of peace. They're the only ones to try diplomacy on a regular basis.

>> No.10929238

>>10929170
its a transport vehicle.

>> No.10929243

>>10929170
Fish-of-Fury tactic is so godly GW stole it for the 4e Eldar Codex. It can be used as a seeker missile platform for Pathfinders. It's a kroot transport now in 5e or so I'm told.
In short, they are awesome.

As I have said earlier, get the Skyray model kit though, you can make the hammerhead and devilfish from it, and you get a crapload of seeker missiles as well.

>> No.10929244

>>10929170

Necessary.

>>10929198

Depends on the loadout. Remember, a regular XV-8 with Plasma/Missile/MT costs 62 points. You need a commander, and at least 2 troops (2 squads min FW costs 120 points). Broadsides are 70+3 (blacksun) at their cheapest.

>> No.10929249

>>10929238
Well, thanks for that huge amount of insight into your thoughts of the Devilfish.

>> No.10929279

>>10929198
around:
1 Shas
1 full team of Krisis suits
1 full team of broadsides
1 small fw team
1 squad kroots.

>> No.10929280

>>10929147
The funny thing is that well-built Dark Eldar and Tau lists still eat the majority of Marine lists for lunch.

>> No.10929334

>>10929280
>implying that the majority of marine lists aren't made by 13 year-olds.
And just to let you know, I skipped MEQ. Started as Tau, shitty decision I know, but they were just too damn cool.

>> No.10929364

>>10929334

Same here. The people who taught me told me to always be aware of a variety of situations.

And by that I meant my second game ever was 1,000 points against a Baneblade and supporting army.

>> No.10929365

>>10929280
>well-built ...Tau lists still eat the majority of Marine lists for lunch

such as?

>> No.10929387

>>10929334
started as third edition blood angels
switched to Tau as soon as they came out
recently sold my Blood Angels to a powergamer and marine fanboy
still kick his ass with my tau
>tauface.jpg

>> No.10929398

>>10929365
See >>10928423; as in don't fucking take Stealthsuits, Flamersuits and mass Firewarriors at 2000 points, and don't Ninja Tau or Fish of Fury or take less than 4 Railguns.

>> No.10929501

>>10929364
I had a friend that was playing muhreens, I walked into a GW store for the first time, immediately looked for the most high-tech looking army. Found the Tau, love at first sight. Later I learnt that GW are a bunch of pricks, found out about an independent stores that sold GW product at 10% less than listed GW price.

I'd still play 40k today if there were some non-faggot players in my part of the world, Australia has fuck-all stuff like tourneys and clubs. I shat brix when I walked into a German GW store on a holiday, much more awesome ;_;

>> No.10929536

>>10929398
Whoops, didnt see that.
What is the primary source of MEQ kills from such a Tau list. Surely you dont have enough battlesuits to waste a troop heavy marine force?

I wanted to collect Tau but got put off by its weakness against SM. I would be glad to be proved wrong.

>> No.10929579

>>10929536

XV-8s and XV-9s when kitted out for anti-mehreen actually work quite well. They really are your primary choices.

>> No.10929597

My 1500 list is coming along nicely, I'm a little stumped, should I give my Devilfish any guns, and if so why should I give it this specific gun?
I mean, I could give it a railgun, but I'm not sure the effectiveness of it.

>> No.10929617
File: 67 KB, 608x578, Rajput man what.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10929617

>>10929597

>Devilfish
>Railgun

...man what

>> No.10929637

>>10929617
I've only played tyranids up to now, so I've never had to worry about things like transportation and all that. (I played 3rd edition).
Frankly, I have no idea what I'm doing, but I think I'm getting somethings down. Avoid carbines on my fire warriors, kroot and kroot hounds to hold enemies in place so that my gunners can back up and blast the everliving fuck when they leave combat, etc.
So uh, what guns should I give to a Devilfish, if any?

>> No.10929641

>>10929536
All dice have 1s and 2s. Railgun submunitions wound on 2s, as do Missile Launchers and Plasma Rifles. Most everything else wounds on 3s at most. That said, a Markerlit Fireknife squad will tear holes in marines, and Railguns work rather well for taking away their metal boxes.

>> No.10929651

>>10929536
See >>10927988
Crisis suits were made to kill marines. Burst Cannom + Plasma Rifle is surprisingly good at killing MEQs, but Plasma + Fusion is better for Terminator equivs.

>> No.10929655

>>10929637

Devilfish get only the burst cannon and choice of secondary guns.

HAMMERHEADS get the choice of weapons. That said, all are shit except the Railgun.

>> No.10929674

>>10929655
Oh, right! Misread that bit. Okay, I'll give it the gun drone replacement, because it'll give away kill points, so says anon from a post a long time ago in this thread.

>> No.10929684

>>10929637
The Smart Missile System removes a KP from the vehicle (yup, the Drones count as a KP. Lame), but also turn the Devilfish into a semi-respectable anti-infantry gunboat (though still expensive compared with the Chimera, but meh). Move 6", fire 7 S5 BS 4 shots.

At any rate, Disruption Pods on all your vehicles is a must. The "exception" is for Piranhas because if you buy them in squads of two, you only need to give *one* of them a Pod for both to benefit.

>> No.10929693

>>10929674

Gun Drones are BAD for that reason. You DO NOT want to give away kill points. Go for either the SMS or burst cannons in the hammerhead's case.

>> No.10929713

>>10929655
Not true, the Ion Cannon can be effective against light armor and chews up MEQs for breakfast.

>> No.10929728

>>10929655
Don't underestimate the Ion Cannon. 3x AP3 shots that are out of lascannon range are surprisingly good at opening rhinos and the juicy marines inside :3 Oh, and it's a LOT cheaper than a railgun. It's semi-decent in a low-points game, for 1500 I would go for Railguns though.

>> No.10929742

>>10929713

But you should be using crisis suits for that.

Also, you only get three sources of Large Blast
1) Hammerhead Shotgun
2) XV-9 Shotgun
3) Special Issue Airburst Frag

Do you really want to give up an excellent S6 AP4 large blast, and the reliability of a near guarantee of a penetrating hit on a metal box with the railgun?

>> No.10929783

>>10929728

Well, the only thing I can say is if you use the ion cannon successfully, more power to you. While the Railgun is top, I will say that out of the choices the Ion Cannon is second best. Still, to me it will never replace the railgun.

>> No.10929795

>>10929742
I'm onto my Hammerhead now. It's getting a Railgun, two Burst Cannons and a Disruption Pod. Is it worth giving it a Targetting Array?

>> No.10929816

>>10929742
Broadsides are best for anti-armor. TL BS3 beats BS4. If you're using a Hammerhead with a Railgun you're looking at it for that large blast. It's good, don't get me wrong, but you pay through the nose for it and it operates best against hordes. If you're against Marines the Ion Cannon is comparable in effectiveness and even better against Blood Angels is they're using their FNP-granting cup. The Railgun is a good option, but it isn't necessarily the /only/ option.

>> No.10929820

>>10929795

The Hammerhead already has a targeting array included in its equipment and statline, BS 3(4).

You want to give it a Multitracker so you can move 12" and shoot the railgun.

>> No.10929849

>>10929820
I have no idea why I said Tracking Array when I meant Multi-Tracker. Alright, giving it one of those. Think it's worth getting another identical hammerhead, or should I get some broadsides loaded with more Railguns and marker lights/drones?

>> No.10929877

>>10929849

Broadsides. Definitely broadsides.

>>10929816

Although a hammerhead is more survivable than a broadside, which is why I like them. They are more versatile than broadsides which camp and hope for the best.

Do not get me wrong, I use both. And while I use broadsides for primary anti-armor, I use the hammerhead to either finish off what the broadsides did not, or I shotgun things. Something is better than nothing in that case.

>> No.10929879

>>10929816
The Ion Cannon does not ignore their FNP. Compound this with the fact Blood Angels in the open will almost always have a 5+ cover save at worst (thanks to Sanguine Shield). You will want to use those Markerlights on your Fireknifes anyway.

>> No.10929886

>>10929879

Wisdom.

>> No.10929887

>>10929783
It would replace a Broadside team though. The lower points cost makes it an effective backup for your RailHeads instead.
This is coming from a useless former Mech Tau player though.
I would suggest to the OP that you go to an old haunt of mine, Advanced Tau Tactica, it's a ridiculously well-mannered forum with a bunch of tactic articles. A word of warning though, it's pretty much the opposite of 4chan, it's run like a fascist state now.

>> No.10929919

>>10929887

>it's run like a fascist state now.

YES. They have great advice at times, but Big Brother is always watching you, and moderators edit peoples' posts to fit their views on how people should act and sound. And sometimes good advice is cut by moderators because they do not agree.

>> No.10929937

>>10929877
Alright. It might be a daring move, but I'm gonna get some marker lights with my Broadsides, to fill out the gaps. 3 Marker/3 shields should do fine, right?

>> No.10929971

>>10929937

On broadsides there seem to be two views:

1) Their Views: Advanced Stabilization Systems on all suits to move and shoot for mobility and versatility.

2) My Views: Target Lock on 2 suits, Drone Controller w/ 2 shield drones for survivability and fire control.

Too many drones on a broadside team is a waste.

>> No.10929983

>>10929919
God forbid if you use foul language or get your grammar wrong. But it's still a good source of advice. Just don't bother contributing, /tg/ is much better for that :3

>> No.10929997

>>10929971
I feel I might be a bit low on Marker Lights, but I'm only on 1373 points right now. Where would you suggest i add my drones to, if I get some more?
I'll take the target lock and shield drones, like you suggested. It makes more sense to me to defend my heavy hitters like that.

>> No.10930007
File: 21 KB, 272x299, Tau_Sympathizer.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10930007

As taken from the Guardsman's Uplifting Primer.

>> No.10930020

>>10929501

>Australia.

Well there's your problem.

Another Aussie here. Sisters players are double screwed in Australia. Every army is screwed once over at least here though.

>> No.10930035

>>10929983

I agree. Fuck them. Sometimes it's better to hear "You're a faggot for taking vespids" as opposed to "Have you tried looking at pirahnas instead?" in that sickly sweet forced smile sort of way.

One of these teaches you that you made a mistake, and to fix it. The other glosses over the fact, and you don't even realize you're wrong.

>> No.10930051

>>10929997

If you want markerlights, get a Pathfinder team or a Tetra team. Where the Pathfinders throw out a massive amount, some will miss. The Tetras throw out fewer, but hit more often and are faster and a bit more survivable. Either way, look at those two for markerlights.

>> No.10930082

Another thing to factor in with Crisis Suits especially is variance. Basically, high quality low-quantity firepower vs. The opposite. I'm of the school of going for a bit of both, hence why my favourite suit config is actually Burst Cannon + Plasma Rifle instead of a fireknife. If you're goingnfor broadsides anyway you won't need as much light vehicle firepower.

>> No.10930106

>>10930051
Oh, I've got a Pathfinder team.
How do Marker Lights work, to fire them? Do I declare before any shooting I'm gonna light up something, then my Pathfinder team goes on their business, or does firing a Marker Light replace the shooting for that phase?

>> No.10930158

>>10930035
Ah, but saying someone is a faggot for taking Vespids does not explain why they are a bad choice either.
I take it you got a ban from there at one stage? I sort of left when I gave up the hobby.

>> No.10930187
File: 329 KB, 1074x1314, greater good.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10930187

>> No.10930211
File: 57 KB, 596x600, Kroot.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10930211

Only worthwhile thing to come out of Tau.

>> No.10930220

>>10930187
In which the Intrepid Reader discovers that Farsight is far too awesome for the Aun.

>> No.10930225

Right. I figure I'll give my commander some bodyguards. What sorta things should I deck these guys out with? Ward saves and FNP?

>> No.10930257

>>10929879
>The Ion Cannon does not ignore their FNP
What? Why?
FNP only works against wounds that you are allowed a saving throw against.

>> No.10930274

>>10930225
You may note that stim injectors are a unique item, and only one example may be used per army.
On another note, take them with the same wepons config as your commander, but with Hw multi and Targetting Array. You might want to look into giving one an airbursting frag projector instead of an MP though. Never skimp on Plasma Rifles though, they are as rare as hens teeth in a Tau Army.

>> No.10930282

>>10930106

Say you're gonna use their markerlights. Roll to hit. Place however many tokens hit. Then spend those tokens as you please by other guys.

>>10930158

Ban for posting statblocks and rules. Most often, they would support my views that, for example, vespids were shit. But apparently you are not allowed to badmouth any unit in the codex because "they all have their uses."

>>10930225

>bodyguards

I don't like them unless in bigger games. Managing a bigger squad and whatnot means more trouble than its worth. Bigger squad footprint, harder to hide. Yes, you get more firepower, but then it screws around with the commander's Independent Character status.

>> No.10930312

>>10930257

It's only blocked from AP 1 and AP 2 weapons, as well as power weapons and wounds from which *NO SAVE MAY EVER BE TAKEN*. AP3 in some cases allows a save on certain units, so you can FNP it.

>> No.10930332

>>10930282
Seems bodyguards were a bit too much. do you think 10 Fire Warriors, 10 Krrots wand 10 Krrot hounds is too little?

>> No.10930335

here's the tau sameface army

Fireknife=Missile pod and plasma crisis suit.

take about nine of those

two hammerheads, a squad of two broadsides, and minimum firewarriors.

Now if you want to have FUN with tau and the amazing things their wargear can do try out: Pathfinders, Magnetized suits, skyrays, kroot (Hounds too!) ethereals, stealthsuits and piranhas. Most Tau armies are the same list over and over with a different color scheme, just take what looks fun to you. But I would recommend two things. Always have a squad of kroot, always have a squad of Broadsides.

>> No.10930395

>>10930332

It SEEMS like a low number of troops, with all the objective games played nowadays. I've been playing around with running 3 squads of 6 FW with Devilfish, because Fire warriors are not that good. Terrible LD, average T, mediocre BS and Abysmal WS. The Kroot squad seems good as a roadblock, but consider more squads of smaller Fire Warriors i.e. 2 groups of 8 or whatnot. They will not be doing much but sitting inside transport. Your battlesuits will do most of the killing.

>>10930335

>Pathfinders, Magnetized suits, kroot (Hounds too!) and stealthsuits and piranhas

Yes

>skyrays, ethereals

NO.

>> No.10930415

>>10930335
>Ethereals
No, not possible to have fun with Ethereals ever since they got rid of Aun'Shi.
For fun Tau consider Devilfish for a Fish of Fury, running an Alpha Strike list (Markerlights and Seeker Missiles EVERYWHERE), being a dick with stealth suits, Farsight Bomb. And lots of kroot.

>> No.10930422

>>10930395
The editing is horrifying, but looks much better when all the points are shifted to the other side of the page.
http://pastebin.com/LrDyLK7M
This is what I have so far.

>> No.10930470

>>10930422
Split the Broadsides, drop the marker drone on the Shas'El, consider changing some of the Fireknives for different loadouts and you should be right.

>> No.10930483

>>10930470
I only have 3 Broadsides, but if I do split them I can grab another, hopefully.
Fireknives?

>> No.10930521

>>10930422

Seems like a good start so far.

Fire Warriors NEED Devilfish to live, first of all. They really suck at gunlining.

Advise against Marker drone on Shas'el.

You can really put whatever else you want in it. Of course, I prefer the Shas'o, but your list seems fine with the Shas'el.

>> No.10930531

>>10930483
Basic Tau terminology: Fireknife is a Crisis Suit with a Plasma Rifle and Missioe Pod loadout.

>> No.10930619

>>10930521
>>10930531
http://pastebin.com/PEhqHnvi
Marker taken off Shas'el. Taken 2 krrot and 2 hounds away to add in another devilfish, added another Broadside. I have no idea what to do for different loadouts though for my Crisis suits.

>> No.10930660

>>10930619
See >>10930082

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