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/tg/ - Traditional Games

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[ERROR] No.10864506 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

How have you dealt with with religious fundamentalists in your campaigns? Do you tend to crush them underfoot, deal with them with an open mind, or something in between?

>> No.10864513

I play Dark Heresy. We ARE the fundamentalists.

>> No.10864529

This shit again?

>> No.10864532

They make for good bad guys.
Or good guys if the fundy's 'god' is on the player's side. (see: paladin)

>> No.10864542

no john, you are the xtians

>> No.10864548

Stop reposting this troll thread.

>> No.10864551

That comic is so wrong on several levels.


>> No.10864556

In the Deadlands game I'm currently playing in I am the fundementalist christian, 'ish

I am basically playing Anderson in the old west because of all the vampires and undead beasties we have come across.

>> No.10864577

Whats wrong with people who have strong faith? Just explain to them that its a game and you respect their devotion. Usually, nips any problems in the ass right there. Its something called respect.

>> No.10864580

We did this already.

>> No.10864590

Does anyone have the source for the full comic?

Judging by that panel, it seems to be full of delicious ragefuel

>> No.10864593

I don't mean players who are fundamentalists. If your players are dicks because they are fundamentalists than you deal with that just the same as if they are dicks because they are loud and obnoxious.

I mean NPCs in games that are fundamentalists.

>> No.10864598

>implying Fundies play rpg's.

>> No.10864605

Fundamentalist players? Never had one. does something like that even exist?

Fundamentalists in-game? I pretty much try to handle them like the real life does. They exist, their views and levels of aggression vary wildly, and they are an significant part of almost every culture.
Heck, most general plot hooks on the backstory level are caused by religious wars.

>> No.10864611


When do you fucking give up? We had enough of muslim weeaboo scum around here.

They are all logical trainwrecks, where tracks are made out of live puppies.

>> No.10864612

I fuck them over. Real good and real hard.

>> No.10864633

have fun

>> No.10864695

Burn and kill them all. In Dark Heresy we are a bunch of radicals. Actually we killed a Puritan Inquisitor, then threw his body into a some kind of warp portal.

>> No.10864711

You know, I find hijabs really hot. A fashionable hijab gives me a raging boner.

>> No.10864720

>Implying as a eskimo fetishist I wouldn't rape the living shit out of Jihab wearing whore as comes out as the most sluttiest in the crowd.

>implying your moral system is actually that feeble that it requires entire religious statement from stop men raping random women.

Religiousfags are all fucking stupid, muslims even more so.

>> No.10864730


>Only handful of pictures in gallery
>No comment sections

Why I am not surprised? Sage'd and reported.

>> No.10864751

It's funny because people would think raghead is a terrorist.

>> No.10864768

I beep boop for the machine god.

Also these comics are retarded, pretending muslims are good is idiotic, all religions are lawful evil.

>> No.10864769

>religious fundamentalists

The Paladin and the Cleric? I only oggle them if they are not wearing a hijab.

>> No.10864783

I have to stop reading hijab as handjob.

>> No.10864794


Declare fatwa if they even think about it, if rest of the party declare fatwa on them too.

If they fight back, call them bigots if any of your party members gets stabbed/violated/broken nail dictate that they didn't wear certain religious garment, so they deserve it.

>> No.10864807

...what am I saying, Tali wore a Space Hijab and I oggled the hell out of that.

>> No.10864818

I don't think name calling is gonna help, even if "fatwad" does sound hilarious.

>> No.10864856

Mass Effect successfully made Muslim "Don't hit on us you silly boys~" clothes incredibly sexy.

>> No.10864860

Never had to deal with them; an upside of living in the UK, I suppose (although I am aware that they exist here).

I guess how I would deal with them would be to give them a few warnings, tell them not everyone at the table is comfortable with espousing religion, that all we want to do is have a game and enjoy a fantasy world and he/she's free to join in and play, but to keep his/her religion out of the game. Make it clear that it's not because of his or her religion and that it's something I'd hold everyone in my game to. After that verbal warning, if they do it again I'll either give them a final warning or just kick them out, depending on the incident.

>> No.10864861

You are now aware that your next character will be a Muslim style cleric or paladin.

>> No.10864862


>> No.10864867


Too bad that the the thing that tali actually wears is more of an Gypsy garment rather than Jihab.

The fact is that Muslim Men fuck even camels due to the fact that muslim women hide their enormous saggy tits with said cloth.

They are all animals, I tell you.

>> No.10864869

>an erotic Muslim style cleric or paladin.

>> No.10864879


>Implying you should act like a pussy incase of some religious whore gets offended


Spineless faggot.

>> No.10864882

Really? How did you manage to do that?

>> No.10864889

full one.

>> No.10864891


Not so much the raging boner thing but I think girls wearing them look very cute.

>> No.10864906

It's probably the exotic nature of the garment

>> No.10864909

this false human religion much different than white-christ cult, anon?

>> No.10864928


Jesus motherfucking christ, the logic is so ass backwards here I could shave my dogs ass, teach him walk backwards and read this comic in my place.

This shit is oppression of women, basically "wear this or get raped".

>> No.10864940


Is furfag stupid or stupid, tripfag?

Stating the obvious 'r us.

>> No.10864955

Because obviously, it's not possible that a woman would want to dress modestly, right?

There's no moral value system that wants girls -not- to dress like teenage hookers.

I love the way the modern woman dresses as much as the next person, but to assume it's -only- the choice of the men is ridiculous.

>> No.10864956

Tremendous niggotry levels detected!

>> No.10864961


>> No.10864976

There's nothing stopping a western woman from dressing modestly. It's Islam that FORCES her to dress modestly.

>> No.10864981

I'm kind of in a crossfire here.

On one side I have dumb neonazis, and on the other side I have dumb terrorists.


>> No.10864982

Yeah, it's not like anyone is FORCED to wear that kind of clothing.
Oh wait...

>> No.10864985

Borderline Fundie here, I agree with parts of it, due to the overlying tone being "I wear it out of respect for myself."

What I don't agree with, is the background culture it comes from. Overall, I believe this comic has good intent, but suffers from nativity that it's the dress that people have a problem with.

>> No.10864987

find a new insult, shithead

I don't know much about your religious cults

>> No.10864995

My point is that not -everyone- who wears it is forced to. In some cases it's entirely possible that it's a choice the woman made.

>> No.10865006

oh for fuck's sake get this shit out of here

>> No.10865007

All religions are wrong. God said so.

>> No.10865010

Islam is a religion dumbass.

Religion doesn't force anything.

Religious politicians force things.

>> No.10865012

Please, for God's sake, stop posting.

>> No.10865014

I fully look forward to playing a Space Catholic fundamentalist every time I sit down to play DH.

>> No.10865015


By muslim stantards, anything that isn't wearing that piece of rag *is* a hooker, therefore a legal excuse to rape women.

Fuck, those cunts would rape every single eskimo woman around if dumped to north pole.

And the implication that muslim religion actually respects women and doesn't treat them as a household of appliances oh, and the fact that people that aren't muslims would actually respect the wannabe super heroine "the amazing bagwoman"

>> No.10865039

have a question

religiously devout women allowed to wear shorts or restricted to wearing pants?

>> No.10865042

Those muslims don't live in the West. Dumbass.

>> No.10865059

hmm. not bad. there is cerainly some talent there.

>> No.10865069


Europe disagrees.

You have no idea how we bad we have it here, muslim immigrants have 60% to 80% percent unemployment all are fundamentalists.

They wanted a fucking seperate bath house for themselves since its dirty to wash with the indifels.

>> No.10865071

Of course there are women who wear this, because they just want to. There are women like that in every culture.

That does not change the fact that a culture that sees the human body in general and the female body in particular as something shamefull isn't quite what I subscribe to.
Just look at the part with the red highlights and say to my face that this is not discriminating against women.

>> No.10865082

Shut the fuck up.

I live in Europe, and I have to find Hadjip wearing women with a fucking microscope.

Almost every muslim girl in the neighbourhood is clothed just like a Western girl.

>> No.10865093


They aren't actually wearing it out of whenever its prospect of human body being shameful.

They just want to make excuses why in the love of fuck would you need that in order not to get raped in the first place.

>> No.10865095

To be honest I never liked this trend of "whoring up" but neither covering up.

I mean why the hell do men use short?! You are an adult now you can were pants you know.

>> No.10865100

a person weak enough to have the mental-rot of your cults take hold deserves no pity, anon

>> No.10865103

Jewish women are actually worse.. they 'only' have to cover their hair if married, are not allowed to wear pants, and can't wear bright colors.

>> No.10865104


Then you must be living in your ass, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Germany and France are filled with muslims.

>> No.10865108

Thankfuly, Most jews aren't fundies

>> No.10865112

I've played with a couple of very religious people.

One was a devout christian (lutherian) who couldn't play on sundays because he attended sunday sermons, then did volunteer work for the rest of the day. He played a paladin of generic goodness, since he didn't feel comfortable championing a fictional diety, and I didn't feel like porting Jehowah into our campaign. That went well, though the sermons his character gave to some npcs were a bit amusing, since he was trying very carefully not to bring his real life faith into the game. Fun times. Refused to talk about his faith with us, saying it's a personal matter and if we're interested, go talk to a minister or something.
Second religious person I've played with was a wiccan. She didn't want to bring her faith into the game either, but she was happy to try to convert the rest of us before/after the game. Which is why we don't play with her anymore. Decent player, but we got sick of the conversion attempts.
Third one was a bucket full of crazy. Called himself a pagan, and made up new gods almost weekly. He kept quiet about this at first, and played a rather generic rogue in the first campaign he played with us. That went ok. Second campaign, he wanted to play a cleric of something unpronouncable. Was given the ok due to playing pretty well in the first campaign. He kept changing what god he was worshipping every week or so, both ingame and irl. Had to skip a game due to being hospitalized after a failed suicide attempt, and we stopped inviting him after that.
Fourth one was a catholic that threw a shitstorm when we told him he couldn't play a christian priest in Eberron, of all places. I don't know why we gave him a second chance, but I'm glad we did. He turned out to be a decent player as long as no-one mentions real life religions.

>> No.10865120

gasp. Europe isn't just one country? I thought you guys fixed that!

>> No.10865121


Thats why most women that have any sort of practical or fashion sense wears decent jeans.

I can only say that if you wear miniskirt, enjoy your chafing, splinters, shards and pretty much everything if you are actually moving away from your segway.

>> No.10865122

UK based Muslim man here.
A lot of more fundimentalist more women force young girls to wear hijabs from a much younger age than is normal (for muslims I mean)
For thoes of us who don't believe that 9-11 was an act of Allah this is fucking disgusting.

That is those of us withous the required two functioning brain cells.

THIS, fundementalists are the bane of the religion they are the only thing the world at large sees when they thing 'Muslim'.
That and oppressive regimes bent on social controll.

>> No.10865126

The entire Quarian species are space gypsies.

Anyone reading this who didn't figure that out in ME1, GTFO!

>> No.10865127


Depends. Sweden and Finland have a centuries-old westernized Tatar population, and a fucking influx of arab/africans

>> No.10865128

Is it just me or does looking at real life religions make the Path of the Omnissiah and The Imperial Creed look sensible?

>> No.10865131

And only France has had big problems with them. HURRRR. Last time I checked the French news, they had more problems with anti-semitic neonazi groups.

It's all a giant heap of bullshit.

It's the Cold War all over again.


Wake me up when a REAL danger surfaces.

Like facism.

>> No.10865144


>hurp durp ya all nazis

>> No.10865153

You see a deasent amount of girls wearing this in Unis in Australia. Havn't seen many younger than Uni age wearing them but I only just moved to brisbane this year.

>> No.10865156

Only the southern parts of sweden is full of muslims. they are to scared to live in the north of sweden where I live.

Up here we are still vikings to the bone with our strong belief in nature spirits and the ancient Asagods (thor, Odin and the like)

>> No.10865160

The problem with the whole Hajib is that it places NO responsibility on the males in question. It's like they are simply allowed to molest non-hajib-wearing women.

>> No.10865164

Dude, did your women's study course end early today or why am I reading that shit a 5pm?

>> No.10865168


more like space jews (before they got Israel back)

>> No.10865171

>For those of us who don't believe 9/11 was an act of Allah

Did you mean "do", or else can you explain this line of thinking? I'm honestly interested.

>> No.10865175

>gasp. Europe isn't just one country? I thought you guys fixed that!
well, they sure are trying.

personally i believe that surrendering political and economic power to the EU and placing its laws above the laws of your own country to be treason and a violation of the individual nations sovereignty.

>> No.10865176

Huge respect you actually bother to read this immature dredge.

These kids can't even see the difference between a religion and a terroristic sect that is hardly 100 years old.
I've seen the documantairy about Wahabism on HistoryChannelHD like a million times.

I can't be the only one on 4chan who understands this shit.

>> No.10865178

You now realize Mass Effect 3 will be about the Space Jews reclaiming Israel from the Geth

>> No.10865186

>docuMANTAIRY about Wahabism on HistoryChannelHD
>hardly 100 years old.

>> No.10865200

If you could design the Hajib differently, as a fashionable outfit for modest women, how would you go about "putting responsibility back on the man?"

>> No.10865205

Its the same here in the UK.
Fundies believe that the north of England is like the Wickerman with rubes pointing at the stars and sacrificing goats to harvist gods.
And that Scottland is full of Celts who are ready to pillage at a moments notice.

>> No.10865217

I really dislike Jeans.

I mean they are work clothing when you work out like gardening or construction, or even just checking terrain for your next building.

But this ridicules trend of using jeans for everything, every single day of the week

>> No.10865218

What if I dislike the religious part because it is used as justification for the terrorist sects? Don't get me wrong, I am aware that the vast vast majority of muslims aren't about to detonate in my face, but the fact that they have the same basic lines of thinking scares me. The same way that Christians scare me based on the total idiocy and disregard that their fundies have for life.

Incidentally, I really like the idea of fictional religious fundamentalists.

>> No.10865226

Wahabism is that particular hardcore Islam that Al-Quada is so fond of.

And yes, it's hardly 100 years old.

Basically the pissed-off rant of some Arab guy that got imprisoned by the Brits.

Yep, once again the Brits.

All the ruckus in the Middle-East is the fault of the Brits.

>> No.10865238

No dude, the southerners believe that the north is just shit and full of uglies.

Londoner here, enjoy your inbreeding northernfag

>> No.10865246

I agree, yet I still wish Europe the best of luck in the endevour. While nations across the world vary, I believe their separation, and thus nationalism is very much an evil as much as it is a blessing. Think of America without it's "Fuck Yeah America" crowd. They are at the same time the driving force for patriotism, and the very same alienating racists that plague our history.

>> No.10865255


>> No.10865263

>Implying it's not due to israel.
>Implying that's not america's fault.
>Implying the British didn't make America
>implying... oh fuck it is our fault.

>> No.10865265

>All the ruckus in the Middle-East is the fault of the Brits.

You know, maybe the Turks and Persians shouldn't have joined with the Germans in WW1.

>> No.10865269


Even the newer immigrants (sadly they are few) from the former Soviet muslim states are okay. Different culture makes wonders, Khazaks and pakistanis are both Hanafi, but they're miles apart.

>> No.10865274

>talking about the dangers of partriotism to northern /k/ommando


>> No.10865278

>Londoner here

>> No.10865282

the ottomans?

dude they have been in the shit pile ever since sea empires were created

>> No.10865287

First step in understanding, is stating where you stand.

>> No.10865293

You don't, you simply hold them accountable for their actions. The hajib has nothing to do with it besides serving as a symbol that if the woman screws up even one timey bit, any guy can do practically anything to her and not be held responsible because LOL SEDUCTRESS.

>> No.10865295

I was implying that those of us who see the 9-11 attacks as what they where (foul attacks on another country by terroists) see the act of forcing young girls to wear hijabs to be morally wrong.

oh indeed it's just a case of them having the most face time with the media.

>> No.10865312

We had a thread about fundies yesterday and we had a thread wit hthis shitty animu muslim comic. Please, just go away.

>> No.10865314

Ironic since that's what they became. Their biggest problem was they became complacent, the Janissaries acted like a Praetorian Guard, etc, etc.

>> No.10865315


If you faggots hadn't crushed our Glorious Dutch Trading Empire, the world had been much and much better...

>> No.10865317

I think that's like hating, off the top of my head, D&D for that one dude who thought it was a good idea to fuck around LARP style in steam tunnels and got people killed. Or, perhaps this is better, the science of psychology because of a therapist who uses his or her skills to manipulate and molest patients.

Just about anything can be abused, man.

>> No.10865320

Ho fuckin crap.
This picture makes me rage so hard.

> "Peacefull" dumbasses with crowbars trying to take on armed soldiers

>> No.10865326

> Western Society
> Social contract
> Covering your head/ and or face is a no no.
> Besides, you did a classic straw man comparison instead of presenting a reasonable argument and thus you should be shunned for trying to mislead people.

Religious fundamentalists as players simply can't be dealt with and unless they're an agreeable type (Which they rarely are) you can't ever bother playing a game with them unless perhaps Dark Heresy if they could use the God Emperor as a figurehead god.

However in campaigns as PC's and NPC's that's another story. Usually the Gods in a game like D&D are fairly reasonable and straight forward. In the new edition Kord is the god of Battle and Storms. He encourages skill in battle and feats of bravery, BUT DON'T YOU GO BERSERK AND JUST START-A-KILLING 'WHOLESALE. A god like Erathis wants you to respect civilization, build great societal works, live an orderly life, and improve cities. Let's not even talk about the gods in earlier editions which had far deeper motives and traditions I could go into. (Except for early edition Forgotten Realms. THEM GODS BE DICKS.)

The point being, the Gods and their tenants in D&D are actually quite reasonable unless that god is a well known dick/ jerk. Therefore their followers in most cases should be theoretically fairly reasonable and easy to get along with. I say theoretically because it depends on your flavor of god.

Now if you want to argue morals and "BUT HOW DO THEY KNOW NOT TO RAPE AND MURDER EACH OTHER? THINK OF THE CHILDREN!", I couldn't say, I imagine it's just part of some base moral code or a basic testament of all the good gods for Humanoids not to commit bad acts. (And don't try and get me to theorize on what quantifies as bad deeds.)

>> No.10865327


>And yes, it's hardly 100 years old.

200, actually. The founder was active during the times of Napoleon.

>> No.10865333

Ah. I understand now what you are getting at.

>> No.10865347

The Brits are at fault for every ill of the modern world. Including Iran, seeing as it was originally your idea to depose their government in the first place. "Hey Murica, want to over-throw Iran's government so we can get oil?", and you were promptly told to GTFO, and you had to make a second try with a different administration.

>> No.10865353

>scared white fucks crying over the horrible Muslim take over

>tv about the arabian oil stocks going dry within reasonable time
>no more arab oil money
>no more terrorism


>> No.10865354

Nah, man, the Volus are the space Jews.

>> No.10865361

Why do they need to get out? I mean there is internet to do groceries and well they have to stay in the kitchen.

Joke aside. Use what ever you want, but sometimes I think youth now a days are using very short clothing I mean they look even more naked.

>> No.10865364

Dutch actually.

>> No.10865369

>You have no idea how we bad we have it here, muslim immigrants have 60% to 80% percent unemployment all are fundamentalists.

Depends where you live. the Turks are usually: "Hurrdurr Turkey strong! This is our clubhouse."

Also: I really like that part. She's all: "Fuck you, I'm enjoying myself."

>> No.10865378

And now you know. Not all of us are lunatics just a LOUD vocal minority.
The greater proportion of us just want to get on with our lives pray too many times a day and starve ourselves for a month a year...

>> No.10865380

>Ignoring a natural resource advantage, hoping that international policy will overwrite national.
>China still buys stock.
>Laughing Iranian Dictator.gif

>> No.10865386

Never happened. That was an entier fabrication by the media because the real story was boring.
The real story was an anti-social guy with mental problems had a nervous breakdown and left uni.

Everything past that point was a lie except for he played DnD. Once.

Besides, have you been in steam tunnels?
Good luck swinging a sword, not even enough room to turn on the spot half the time.

>> No.10865391

Tell me more.

Also, anyone else considered a Dutch-controlled world as an RP setting?

I mean, we Dutch were pretty much doing cyberpunk in the 17th century.

I mean, we sended out country-companies.

Company hired soldiers, captured a country in the New World, governed it to get the max profit.

>> No.10865397


Terrorist actually make most of their money through drug trade. Oil stocks in the east going dry will just make things worse because there will be power vacuums and even more hungry desperate people in need of a purpose.

>> No.10865405


Turks are weird muslims anyway.

That Attaturk guy really got that religious mindset out of their brain.

>> No.10865413

>see pic
>can only think how its a safety hazard to wear that in that kind of work condition.

>> No.10865414

>You know, maybe the Turks and Persians shouldn't have joined with the Germans in WW1.

Yeah man, how dare they not being thankful for the white man shouldering their burden? They're just like them fucking niggers - ungreatful fucks.

>> No.10865418

Oh god Turks. I had a Turk exchange student at Uni as a SURPRISE ROOMATE one semester. I tried to get along with him but he was kind of a dick, smelled, and his TURKEY STRONG shit that he and the rest of the Turk exchange crowd constantly put on was aggravating at best.

I never thought a simple meeting like that in my life would make me hate an entire country. Yet here I am. Hating Turks.

>> No.10865426


But still, isn't Al-Quada's bank account going empty at a horrible rate?

>> No.10865428

Turks are "muslim." Plus Mount and Blade came from there...so yeah.

>> No.10865439

Atatürk was a bro.

>I have no religion, and at times I wish all religions at the bottom of the sea. He is a weak ruler who needs religion to uphold his government; it is as if he would catch his people in a trap. My people are going to learn the principles of democracy, the dictates of truth and the teachings of science. Superstition must go. Let them worship as they will; every man can follow his own conscience, provided it does not interfere with sane reason or bid him against the liberty of his fellow-men.

* Quoted in Atatürk: The Biography of the founder of Modern Turkey, by Andrew Mango; "In a book published in 1928, Grace Ellison quotes [Atatürk], presumably in 1926-27", Grace Ellison Turkey Today (London: Hutchinson, 1928)

>It is claimed that religious unity is also a factor in the formation of nations. Whereas, we see the contrary in the Turkish nation. Turks were a great nation even before they adopted Islam. This religion did not help the Arabs, Iranians, Egyptians and others to unite with Turks to form a nation. Conversely, it weakened the Turks’ national relations; it numbed Turkish national feelings and enthusiasm. This was natural, because Mohammedanism was based on Arab nationalism above all nationalities.

* Yurttaslik Bilgileri, Yenigun Haber Ajansi (1997 edition) p. 18

>> No.10865459

No fucking shit.


Also, the Turks you meet in Europe are basically all from "the South".

The modern Turks don't move to Europe, because the cities in Turkey are pretty much like European cities anyway.

>> No.10865465

No, it's more like if someone said that D&D was irrefutibly true and that things that make the world a better place cannot and should not exist because they are not in the D&D core books.

When people disagree and call said person an idiot, he proceeds to rage like a massive douche.

Except this isn't D&D, these are world religions, these are the MAJORITY of the world population and they are holding back advancement both scientifically and socially due to their arse-on-head retarded thinking.

>> No.10865482

Dude, -Britain- should have sided with the Germans in WW1.

We could have had another frog-slapping session that would have ended quickly and with the German and British Empires coming out stronger, exactly like the two times before that. No second world war, no cold war.

But noooooo.

Fucking Asquith.

>> No.10865488



>> No.10865492

White-mans burden is the greatest of all racial tribulations.

>> No.10865498

Have you ever dealt with a cult of Nerull? Fundamentalism can be fun.

>> No.10865502

We need this. Now. MAKE IT HAPPEN!

>> No.10865509

>No second world war, no cold war.

naw I think those are still pretty likely

>> No.10865533

Funny you'd mention it.

Before WW1 actually happened, most people expected war between France and Britain.

>> No.10865540


Yeah, that too. Kurds and poor Turks who just want to live their pension as rich Turks in Turkey - that was the first generation of immigrants.

>> No.10865545

More or less, merchants and merchant marines. Seeking profit where you can.

Problem is that overall, it's a boring setting if you weren't on the high seas as a pirate or trader. The Dutch Empire makes for great Antagonists, or NPC's, but nothing much for a violent, adventurous setting.

Although, you can spin it however you want. British and French just had more readily visible conflict.

>> No.10865546

Why? If France was attacked by both it wouldn't have lasted more than a few months, tops. After that the Germans/Austro-Hungarians could have had a decent crack at Russia and stamped out both the White and Red armies.

>> No.10865565


Nah, you're not. I did my first research paper in college on the origins of Radical Islamism and my second between the Hashemites and Al Saud over the Hijaz in the 1920s. Although I hate to insult a fellow student of Islamic history, you...kind of got it seriously wrong here >>10865226

Wahhabism originates in the 1700s from Abdul (?) Wahhab, a Central Arabian born Islamic student or whatever the fuck the term is for someone who studies the Quran, part of the Ulema basically. He was infuriated by what he saw in Mecca (which until Ibn Saud took over in the 1900s, was widely condemned by most of the Islamic world as a den of decadence and un-Islamic morals, ironicall enough) and Arabia, which was people starting to turn to saintly figures and pilgrimages to holy men's tombs. He joined his religious rabble rousing with a scion of the Al Sauds' military mighty. This allowed them to grow in power in Arabia until it threatened the Ottoman Empire (Which, as the Caliphate, was a target of the Wahhabist's fanaticism), which sicced the Egyptian Mamluks on them. THey were annihilated in the early 19th century, but would bubble and eventually resurface under the young Ibn Saud in the early 20th century.

You're mixing up Wahhab with Sayid Qutb, the contemporary Egyptian guy who was the father of modern radicalism, and was imprisoned first by the Egyptian Monarchy (which was patsies of the British) and then executed by Nasser. I'm less smart on what he did, except that he would have established in a modern conception the ideas of the lesser jihad and rebelling against Westernization. I imagine he also set forth the concept of jihad against an Un-islamic government - which would have been the Egyptian Monarchy & Nasser.

Wahhabism isn't the origin of radical Islamism anyway. Stupid people point to the Nizari (Hashashin), but they weren't exceptionally Islamist, just terrorists in the fact that they did use terror successfully.

>> No.10865573

Side with France -once- and it starts the decline the largest Empire the world has ever known.

That's as close to solid proof that French suck is contagious as you can get.

>> No.10865591

>thread initially derails into blind, directionless anti-muslim bigotry
>ends up with a civil, unbiased and informed discussion on the history of Islamic fundamentalism
...I still love you after all, /tg/. I still love you.

>> No.10865602

Maybe make it less serious?

I'm already imagining some mercenary PC's stepping out of a Dutch trading post, without even a single golden coin left.

"Fuuuuuckiiiiiin' DUUUUUUTCHHHH!"

>> No.10865603


Nizari are a bunch of sevener shi'ites, since the largest radical factions have been sunni for centuries, it's rather obvious that they're not behind it.

>> No.10865622


>implying anti-religious or anti-muslim bigotry is bad

Religionfag or a hypocrite?

>> No.10865644

"Ah yes, We appreciate your actions on behalf of the trading company, and are pleased to reward you your sum of five hundred gold pieces.


*Cue the armed guards blocking the doors*

"The damages you've caused to our property, and reputation must be accounted for, and docked from your reward..."

>> No.10865647

So the british empire's decline started in 1720? Cool story, bro.

>> No.10865670

>Walks into a thread of level headed fundies.
>Spouts off trollism 101.
>odd looks.

>> No.10865671

Maybe someone who likes intelligent discussion?

Bigotry is always bad.

And don't say "Muslims are terrorists! Because I say so!" is a solid argument.

Because it doesn't prove anything.

>> No.10865679

"Where the Dutchman has been, not even the grass grows anymore."

I bet you can't guess who where the -only- people crazy and/or stupid enough to try and trade with London at the height of the plague.

They used to drink Brandy to steady their nerves on the way over. It's where we get the term 'Dutch courage'.

Fucking Dutch. How do they work?

>> No.10865685

Since bigotry by definition rests on prejudice, it can never be good, as prejudice leaves too much room for ignorance and too little for reason.

Addressing your "argument", I am not particularly religious, and I do not see how my tolerance of religions thus could make me a hypocrite in any way.

Consider your reply rebutted.

>> No.10865692


How we can trust you?

"War is deception" after all, as stated by that precious book of yours that rather big "minorities" will bomb peoples shit over and go wrecking peoples shit en masse.

>> No.10865695


Not all christians or muslims are terrorists. Their religions are still horrible detriments to society and humanity, and both deserve all scorn they get.

>> No.10865707

Troll or troll?

>> No.10865715

>who would be more respected

the one who doesn't look like a fucking terrorist

>> No.10865718

>You're mixing up Wahhab with Sayid Qutb, the contemporary Egyptian guy who was the father of modern radicalism, and was imprisoned first by the Egyptian Monarchy (which was patsies of the British) and then executed by Nasser.

Eh, the Muslim Brotherhood was not that bad, to be honest. Apparently Sayid only turned radical after he had been locked up for years and plenty of his followers shot...and they're spearheading a sort of protestantic interpretation of Islam these days, which mostly tells people to get a job, get married and get on with their lifes while being muslims. It's a darn shame that we only get to hear about all the people the House of Saud is TOTALLY NOT paying. WE HAVE NO IDEA WHERE THE MONEY IN ALL THESE CHARITABLE TRUSTS ENDS UP! HONESTLY!!!

>> No.10865723

The War of the Quadruple alliance had The Holy Roman Empire cancelling out the suck.

It was everyone in Europe against Spain. Not even France could have screwed it up.

>> No.10865726


Yeah, but the Nizari if memory serves were the religious branch of the Hashemites. People see what the Hashemites did and then conclude that somehow they started Islamic Extremism/terrorism. Since it is ignorant people who conclude so, they wouldn't pay that any heed. Nor that the Hashemites killed I think a grand total of 2 Christian figures, and were focused foremost on fighting the Sunni.

The Origins of Radicalism at least in my opinion and amateur research would center on two figures:

>>Ibn Hanbal was the founder of "Fundamentalism", although that term originates in application to the Christian Protestant movements of the late 19th and early 20th century in America. It's application would be the same, the idea of going "Back to the roots" of the religion in order to purify it. He, who lived around the 700s, wanted Islam to return to the established principles and values of the "Salaf" or the ancient ones of Medina who followed Muhammad.

>>Ibn Taymiyyah is the origin of our usual concept of radical Islamism, and originates in the 13th and 14th century. He was a Hanbalist (and thus a 'fundamentalist'), but more importantly begat the concept that Jihad against the enemies of Islam was as important as prayer and the highest obligation of Muslims. Furthermore, any properly pious ruler and state is expected to put all their resources towards the cause of Islam - if they do not, or if they are deemed Un-Islamic, then it is the obligation and the duty of a pious muslim to rebel against such an authority.

Unless there's another figure I don't know of, I would consider Taymiyyah to be the real father of Islamic Radicalism.

>> No.10865745

I don't think OP is trollin'. Perfectly sensible question with clipart from a RAAAAAAAAAAAGE comic.

(for what it's worth, I read the picture as the other way around -- woman in miniskirt is confident in her strength, woman with hijab is afraid she will be beaten if she doesn't conform... but anyways...)

> fundamentalism
> n : the interpretation of every word in the sacred texts as
> literal truth.

Sounds like Lawful Stupid to me.

>> No.10865749

If this is true, I officially have a newfound respect for the Dutchies.

>> No.10865756

>Laughing Iranian Dictator.gif

Jesus, what? You just went fully retard. Iran's an Oligarchy, if anything. Everyone should know that it was the merchant class that funded the extremist takeover. And nowadays those fundis are living the good life together with their tranny wives (no homo!).

>> No.10865759

>Good news: we have perfected electric conveyances, the batteries of which are charged by the output of nuclear power plants, the fissile material of which is supplied by our allies

>Bad news: the heavy metals needed to make these batteries are found in great abundance and are most easily mined in Afghanistan, exchanging a large but militarily 'easy' muslim backwater for a cramped, inaccessable muslim backwater that has broken the backs of empires (the russians before, the americans now).

>> No.10865764


>Enemies of Islam

Doesn't this mean.. "Pretty much everyone" ?

>> No.10865766

Marijuana use.


>> No.10865779


The council and the Supreme Leader Khamenei are technically an oligarchy, but Iran can still be called dictatorship without too much worry.

>> No.10865781

most European countries had a hay-day. They celebrate it in their culture, and hate everyone's opinions on it. If you want to add flavor at the right times to campaigns, be a history buff.

>> No.10865791

Not really respect, because they were risking another bubonic plague outbreak on the European mainland. And there was a lot more people around at that point in time, could have been even -more- devastating.

'Awe' would be a more accurate word.

>> No.10865792


That sounds pretty scandinavic.

"Okay boys, I am pretty sure that we are all going to die during or after this trip, so lets get drunk as soon as we can"

>> No.10865808

Well... about that. I'm Dutch.

I'm a regular in a coffeeshop here in the neigbourhood, and I talk from time to time with the boss of a big bank here.

After work, he comes to the coffeeshop to smoke a few joints, before he heads home by train (because he's too fucking stoned to drive), is a happy dad at home for the kids and wife, and goes to sleep.

He needs it to get rid of the stress at work, especially in these economic shitty times.

>> No.10865809

>Enemies of Islam
>Doesn't this mean.. "Pretty much everyone" ?

It means: "Everyone not in my sect."

>> No.10865813

I just dislike Ahmadinejad, the current president. This past election in Iran truly ruffled my feathers.

This can be said of most of the leadership in the middle-east.

>> No.10865825

>> No.10865830

>most European countries had a hay-day. They celebrate it in their culture, and hate everyone's opinions on it.
That is certainly true. I'm European - Danish - and I definitely recognize the heyday-effect in the countries here that I'm reasonably informed about, but that the Dutch defied the Plague in that manner was news to me.

>> No.10865857


Most midwest is a circlejerk of all things wrong and a colossal money sink that made soviets blush.

Seriously, we could've thrown dem' jews on South America or unnamed island, but no. We could've saved ourselves from some conflict and we would've had less excuses eliminating entire shistain off the map.

Such delicious resources, wasted by religious fanatics. Fucking Theocrats.

>> No.10865858

How do you know whether I would have liked an even more massive outbreak of the Plague or not? Maybe I chose the word 'respect' with exceptional care...!

>> No.10865867


>> No.10865872


Iranian president is just a figurehead, although Ahmedinejad's line is the one supported by the Guardians and Khamenei, otherwise he would not be in power.

>> No.10865875

Everyone forgot we Dutch ruined our own economy by selling tulips for absurd amounts?

That's right. We could be buying entire countries and instead we began putting speculative prices on fucking flowers.

(flowers=mortages) HURR DURR

>> No.10865876

HEY!. since when have i ever claimed to be a partriot?.

saying that one large pile of dirt is better than another pile of more or less the same dirt is foolish.

but the people, ethics&morals, culture, standard of living, and way of life of one country can surely be better than the same of another country.

>> No.10865879


But then we'd have Angry Angry Argentinians instead of Painful Painful Palestinians.

>> No.10865882


Plague was more common than bastard children back then, srsly. It happened to everyone.

Fuck, even backwater nations of various empries like Finland got their share of plague, syphilis amongst other fun things.

>> No.10865898

I'm aware. My dislike is placed where they want it, but it's still true all the same. For a very subdued political world, the guys a arrogant fuck. It annoys me.

>> No.10865899


At least they wouldn't be the muslims, whom already have long, long history of throwing religious wars just for sake of spreading their cancerous religion killing pretty much every country they touched in long run.

Argentinia however, they would be threatening as cuba was thought to be during cold war.

>> No.10865905


You can't say things like that without someone getting butthurt, especially in an environment with as many political stances as /tg/.

>> No.10865909

Lot's of people think the French were the greatest rivals of the British Empire, but whenever they came to blows it was 9 times out of 10 the British who won. It was about 50/50 for the Dutch Empire. They were also the second people in the world to adopt the concept of Marines, and were the second to use them after (and against) Britain a year later. To this day the British Royal Marines and the Dutch Royal Marines cross-train and share a rivalry/friendship.

Speaking as a Brit, the Netherlands were the worthiest foes we ever had.

>> No.10865924

rolled 32 = 32


religious people play RPGs?

>> No.10865926

>killing pretty much every country they touched in long run.

i dunno. its more of a european thing to fuck up other countries

last I checked the muslim world was the center of knowledge before the crusades opened them up to the Christians

>> No.10865946

Finland here.

We have no idea what the fuck happened in the past, since it happened so quickly and at hectic pace.

And we don't have any idea what is going on either.

Its not fun being pulled by one superpower after another guise. Can we be friends now?

>> No.10865948


>center of knowledge

As Rome, Greece and India were before that, and reneissance Europe after. There's little unique about the muslims.

>> No.10865952

rolled 3, 3 + 1 = 7

i thought mods were all of a sudden deleting these : /

>> No.10865960

French were always the greatest rivals...on land. With a long list of English-French battles in Normandy and beyond, the rivalry became representative of land wars at the time. (Then along came a dictator)

However, you are right. The Dutch was a rival comparatively with the English. More so, then say the Spanish and the Portuguese. (Don't forget about them!)

>> No.10865963


And then they pulled a China


Seriously, the similarity between the ottoman empire and early-modern china is uncanny.

>> No.10865965

Last I checked, it was Mongol invaders that burned every muslim library they found to the ground.

>> No.10865967

You are now aware that muslims fight different types of muslims more than they fight anyone else. Where have I heard that before?

>> No.10865968


Kind of. :\ It's a difficult issue. I think a real problem with Islam is how woven into the theology the grandiose concept of their orthodoxy is. By that I mean all three Abrahamic faiths have a superiority complex - the Jews being God's chosen people, the Christians being those saved by accepting Christ, the Muslims by being the correct final concept of God. But I imagine for Judaism they won't be lording over us Goyim until the messiah comes back, and for Christianity it's mostly turning to not-contemporary figures (Saints and thinkers) who come up with the more imperialist ideals.

Islam has that 'imperialist' concept in its theology, but it's the definition of that which scholars within and without argue over. That is why you have Islamic conquests where the subjects are kept as second class citizens, are left to their own devices, forced to convert, or slaughtered wholeslae.

My own opinion is that Islam and the West can co-exist, but we need to keep a passive, tense defensve - don't allow Islamification of our cultures yet see eachother as neighbors rather than enemies. This isn't tragic considering the Islamic world would hope to follow a similar practice - they want changes in their societies, but they don't want to simply be TRANSFORMED into Westerners - this is what got the Pahlavi Shahs into so much trouble.

>> No.10865974

Yeah I remember the Spanish.

We kicked their asses in the Eighty Year war, and the Brits pissed their Armada way.

>> No.10865992


>> No.10865993


That progress stopped before the crusades, when things started to really stagnate globally.

At least Moosleems of old had old warriors code, as saladin said to ol' Lionheart "If I were to lose my nations capital to someone, let it be you my friend"

Fucker impressed him by proper defences against the overwhelming hordes for quite some time with nearly all of his generals dead (One of them died whilst having a sporting swim) he still managed to hold on.

I mean god damn, they had real gentlemans war thing going on, between the enemy camps there was unofficial trading/recreation camp where both sides just went to throw some pair of dice and tell tales until possibly killing eachother on the field of battle, of course none of them really had good excue to fight but they fought for sake of fighting and didn't go out to seek a proper excuse to do so. Fukken knights templar and order of saladin man.

Nowadays we have to act like monsters and find all sorts of justifications for it, torture, murder whanot. God damn it, can't we just fight and be gentlemen with it?

>> No.10866006


Didn't the Brits pretty much put end to the inquisition as they trashed quite alot of the spanish mainland with their navy?

I could be wrong, I am not an expert of spanish history; I admit to be an ass on the subject.

>> No.10866013

The possible dark secret of the Knights Templar was that they were working on some kind of unifying theory that would bring the Abramitic faiths into one, or at least closer to each other.

>> No.10866051

>>At least they wouldn't be the muslims, whom already have long, long history of throwing religious wars just for sake of spreading their cancerous religion killing pretty much every country they touched in long run.

That's poorly put. I would go so far as to suggest that Genocide has been a far more European characteristic than an Islamic one. Consider that there are still Christians in Syria and Egypt (around 10%), and were probably still a majority during the times of the Crusades according to Scholars. How many Jews and Muslims are still in Iberia? How many of them are a continous legacy from the time of Al-Andalusia?

Such genocides have occurred in the Islamic world, but Christians have committed as much or more.

Christian bigotry in the Inquisition was strong enough that even Muslims and Jews that converted to Christianity were treated with hostility and kicked out.

Anyway, its always silly when people complain about Islamic conquests in Europe - compared to the Islamic conquests of India, we got off utterly mild. The conquest of Constantinople resulted in around 4,000 dead - The Battle of Panipat between the Irano-Afghans and the Marathi resulted in 40,000 Marathi Camp followers killed, to say nothing of the soldiers themselves. And that's saying nothing of Mahmud of Ghazni smashing idols and temples or the fucking -towers of skulls- that conquerors like Tamerlane set up.

>> No.10866067

Remember when we were still best friends?

>> No.10866076

Goodness me, Germans were scary as fuck with their empire and protestantism.

>> No.10866081


>> No.10866087

The bitch who writes this comic is from arizona wtf.
here is the link http://www.fullwhitemoon.deviantart.com/

>> No.10866100

British and Prussian Empires beat the entire civilised world.

Never forget.

>> No.10866112




>> No.10866119


>Unifying all religions

Problem solved, half of the possible conflicts would've never happened.

Seriously, even though they were mostly just multinational knights they had pretty high membership count and followed similiar code of honor to Saladin's knights, from donation to fixed amount of money (Which made Knights Templar one of the most economical powers in the old europe) and themselves to fight for the knights templar for various causes.

Some of the fuckers were so battle hardened and pious they actually offered prayers to the invading side, since they shared the holy city with them alongside with dem' jews. Dapper bastards, I tell you

"Have at you heathen!"
"Whatever you say, dear infidel!"

And as a sidenote, its too bad that after the crusade the way to produce damascus steel was lost, hardest form of steel known to man.

>> No.10866132


That's what I like about the Crusades - there was a lot more nobility between sides than many in the following centuries wanted to admit.

>>Whenever I visited Jerusalem I always entered the Aqsa Mosque, beside which stood a small mosque which the Franks had converted into a church. When I used to enter the Aqsa Mosque, which was occupied by the Templars ... who were my friends, the Templars would evacuate the little adjoining mosque so that I might pray in it. One day, I entered this mosque, repeated the first formula, "Allah is great," and stood up in the act of praying, upon which one of the Franks rushed on me, got hold of me and turned my face eastward saying, "This is the way you should pray!" A group of Templars hastened to him, seized him, and repelled him from me. I resumed my prayer. The same man, while the others were otherwise busy, rushed once more on me and turned my face east­ward, saying, "This is the way you should pray!"
>>The Templars again came in to him and expelled him. They apologized to me, saying, "This is a stranger who has only recently arrived from the land of the Franks and he has never before seen anyone praying except eastward."


That epitomizes what I'd come to read, which is that as time went on the Crusaders began to see the Muslims as less the servants of the anti-christ and more rivals, neighbors, and competing powers - human beings, in other words. Which is why Catholics need to re-conquer the holy land and benevolently rule it - the Jews fuck it up, the Muslims fuck it up, and the American Protestants are a bunch of retards for thinking they can speed up the return of Christ. European Protestants can come along - they'll get fun surcoats and we can go take a trip and beat up the silly Orthodox along the way. :3

>> No.10866138




>> No.10866152

Scary thought that. Imagine any sort of figure of power, wielding the weight of both worlds to their own end.

My friend, it was just too early for that sort of notion to exist.

>> No.10866153


>> No.10866157

wow people read into some shit!
Didn't say I was against the religon just that the bitch is from Arizona

>> No.10866165

Actually, the Spanish Inquisition didn't really go in for the burning of heretics too much. Now before I get shouted at, let me explain; the Inquisition's original purpose was twofold, first to target the Converos; Jewish converts as the popular belief was that they were still practicing Judaism and in order to prevent civil disorder, an Inquisition was established and targeted them heavily. The second reason was to grab control of the Church from Rome and create an erastian church under the control of the Monarchs of Castille and Aragon, as the crown controlled the appointment of the Inquisition. After Carlos I (known more commonly as Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor) came to the throne, the focus shifted away from conversos and onto protestant heresy; however, due to Spain's geographical location and the nature of it's populace, Protestantism was never really established in Spain and there weren't that many auto de fe (Which didn't always involved burning someone at a stake, sometimes there would be an effigy or more commonly a penance). The Spanish Inquistion never actualyl burnt that many people, I forget the statistic, but the number of people actually burnt was suprisingly low compared to how many people were tried by the Inquisition. It also served to propagate enlightened aspects of Christiainity to the very rural and backwards communities of Spain, for example, it condemned Witch Burning as nonsensical superstition. It's popular image as this maddened Christian sect burning anybody who didn't toe the line is mostly the product of Protestant propaganda written in Germany, Scandanavia and England.

>> No.10866182

>and the American Protestants are a bunch of retards for thinking they can speed up the return of Christ

Thanks, now I have a bad scifi script in my head, about fundamentalist christians cloning Christ, who goes on a murderous rampage, until the Hero manages to summon God, Satan and the real Jesus who use their powers to destroy the fake Jesus and his legion of Jesus-zombies.

>> No.10866191


>> No.10866195

Is all I hear coming from this troll thread

>> No.10866202

Most witch burning actually took place in Protestant areas.

Like Germany...

>> No.10866236


>> No.10866245

All of this talk of religion and then suddenly this >>10866165 pretty unexpected tbh...

>> No.10866252

>>unifying theory that would bring the Abramitic faiths into one



I was implying the brutality of the inquisition towards more the conversios and the remaining Jews and Muslims - I do agree it was hijacked into anti-papalist propaganda by the Protestants. I was only baptized catholic, and I'd be one of those "No pope" catholics if I ever converted (like Anglicians or something), but it's funny how I sympathize with the Papists more than I do the lutherians.

>> No.10866253

Yeah, fucking Krauts.

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