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10624639 No.10624639 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Hey elegan/tg/entlemen,

So, I'm starting to get into 40k for the first time. Yeah, yeah, it's expensive. But I have a stable job and plan on buying a 500 point army.

After going to the local gaming place and checking various codexes my original decision to choose space marines has changed to


Something about them seems cool. And, come to think of it, I've always liked the Alien (AvP) and Zerg in starcraft. So Tyranids seem a natural choice.

Anyway, sirs, I'm hoping you might be able to critique my choices for my first 500 point armies. I'll be buying a few extra units to swap here and there, but I'll just lay it out and here what you guys have to think.

HQ- Tyranid Prime
Troops- 2x Termagant Brood
Heavy Support- Carnifex (probably with 1 twin-link devourer w/ brainleech and, 1 twin-link deathspitter)
(and my ace up the sleeve)
Elite- The Doom of Malan'tai + Mycetic Spore

This would be a primarily anti personnel/horde army. If I face off against something a little more armor heavy. I'd swap the Carnifex for 2x Zoanthropes, give one of the Termagant Brood devouers, and give my HQ regen+toxin sacs.

Otherwise, 40k general, i guess.

>> No.10624728
File: 1.19 MB, 1600x788, BFG IN vs Tyranids.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

If you're actually playing low-point games I'd go for more swarms and fewer big-point units. More fun, more balanced, less luck-dependent.

But by the time you get up to 1500 pts those will be alright.

Welcome to the hobby!

>> No.10624906

thank you sir for the advice!!
I considered this, but it sounds like a fair number of people in the area play marines and feild a tank, tau and field a few tanks, and such. I feel like my hordes would get eliminated real quick.

Apparently using the same setup of HQ+2 troops that I have, you can also include 2 Carnifex without any evolutions, etc.

That seems almost broken it's good.

The Doom of Malan'tai is my ace. I definately plan on bringing it to many of my battles with the spore.
-drop it in
-spirit leech (Enemy units within 6'' of unit take a Ld test on 3D6. For each point failed, lose a wound w/o armour save. For each wound inflicted, the unit gains a wound point to a max of 10).
Then, if there's a tank,
-Psychic strength (blast with S= wounds)

So hypothetically, i could drop this fucker in, kill a squad, get my Doom up to 10 wound, and blast a tank with ~10 strength (depending on how hard he gets hit)

All for the low low price of 130 points (90 for the unit, 40 for the drop)

>> No.10624945

Painting them is tedious and stressful

>> No.10624949

Give the carnifex double devourers and bio-plasma. Crazy numbers of twin-linked shots.

>> No.10624961

Just remember that a lot of people will hate on you if you actually play with malan'tai. It has a way too low point cost for what it does.

>> No.10624972

Tyranids at 500pts?
Get a battleforce, it has everything you need.
Then you can expand on that after a few games.

>> No.10624989

I know, with my current config, each devourer can have pretty much a "dakkafex" configuration (I'm basically repeating what the guy at the store is telling me lol, i know so little about this hobby).

This means i guess i get to roll to hit something like... 12 times? I think.

So why do you recommend the devourers over the deathsplitter?

>> No.10625063

Yeah :\ it's probably broken, especially since it can ride a spore. I think it would be legit if it had to actually take the risk and get close enough without the spore.

ALTERNATIVELY, I might pick up a Mawloc and switch out the Doom with that. I could probably throw in some upgrades, too.

Yeah? I guess I'm unprepared for this aspect. Stressfull enough to reconsider purchasing them?

Interesting idea. So a more horde army? How would i stand up to the guys who field a couple tanks?

>> No.10625107

At 500pts they won't be fielding more than transports, most likely.
And you have Warriors for that.

>> No.10625235

500 point armies? You can field 2 carnifex with 500 points (HQ+2termigaunt brood+2carnifex)

While i was looking at the books some kid brought over a fucking Tau 500 point army with what appeared to be two large hovertanks. Apparently they "mow down" infantry. :|

>> No.10625273

If they had big guns, then yeah. If they didn't have big guns, then no.

>> No.10625368

He had one with a big fat gun and one with a "rail gun" that apparently kills instantly if it hits and has like... 72'' range?

>> No.10625407

Rail cannon - He was exaggerating, but yeah, it's a strong gun.
The other one has a shit ion cannon, and you should have laughed at him for putting that useless piece of shit on his model.

>> No.10625425

"kills instantly"
It's a good gun, one of the best but... No.

>> No.10625442

Heres a method I used to mass produce gaunts, for only a 500pt army you wont have to use this but if you ever have the need to paint 3 boxes of gaunts + a battleforce you should consider using it, I'm using hive fleet leviathan as an example.

>spray paint gaunts white
>tankbrush purple ink over them
>lightly drybrush bleached bone over then with tankbrush
>now do the armor, guns, bases, heads, ect, lol

its not a very delicate method but I know from personal experience that if you absolutely, positively have to paint 40+ genestealers in a single afternoon, look no further.

>> No.10625468


You still have to roll to wound to kill with the big long one, and it's high strength instant killyness is against T5 lower creatures; it can chew through their wounds in one shot. That one doesn't pieplate. Not a big concern with single wound troops. The pieplate shot will hurt like a bitch tho.

The stubby little gun, aka the ionhead is cute. it'll sting against units like warriors but compared to the big long railgun is a adorable little novelty toy.

>> No.10625477


spraypaint them red. then dip them


>> No.10625510

Ah, a fellow 'nidsman.

I would simply advise: Always, always go swarm.
I've heard a lot about nidzilla armies being great.
I've seen some pretty sweet lists.
Then some IG asshole comes in and rains down a dozen+ lascannon shots a turn.

Doom and Zoans are great... until the Eldar player comes in.

So, yeah.
I've started running warriors+gaunts as my base.
Couple Zoans, a Venom or two (that 5+ invuln is VERY handy, fuck if I know whether or not it's worth the points), fun stuff.

>> No.10625523

Oh! haha.
Yeah it was the fatter gun that he said could "mow down infantry". So that's an ion cannon? I'm assuming it doesn't do that...

He also was talking about his "flamer" troops which he has jump forward, flame, and jump back. I thought that was cool... apparently he gets killed by chaos marines fairly quickly. I imagine any of my army configs could kill him. Fuck, I'd probably use the mawloc+carnifex and rape his shit.

Some guy was also talking about how his ultramarines had a tank that would one-shot my carnifex.

Is this true?

Fuck, are Nids even good? Haha, I'm not looking to do tournaments or even win most of the games... but I don't want to lose every game :\. My friend who plays necron says he loses al the time.

I just like the lore/species so much...

Are nids at least mid-tier?

This sounds awesome. What's tankbrushing?

>> No.10625558

His flamer troops are being used for the wrong purpose, he sounds like a beginner, you don't have to worry about him too much, he's just a kid with mom's credit card. You won't have a problem taking out his tanks, when it's the troops you need to kill 2/3rds of the time.
And nids eat Tau troops for snacks.

>> No.10625578

Nothing can one shot a carnifex, barring force weapons iirc. And that's not guaranteed.

Nids are mid-high tier, closer to high.

>> No.10625604

Hell yes!
Thank you so much for the tips!
So you recommend swarms, then.

A few questions
> a Venom
What is this? I read the codex today, but can't recall it exactly. I'm buying it tomorrow, so...

Also, as far as gaunts, what's your mix?
Like, what would you make your 500 point army out of? You recommend the battle set like others in this thread have?

Lastly, how do you deal with tanks? Zoans?

>> No.10625617


And dealing with tanks = Monstrous creatures in close combat or carnifexes with anti tank guns.

>> No.10625643

Wow, this is the first Tyranid related thread I've seen in ages that hasn't boiled downed to Nid players whining that the last codex wasn't overpowered enough.

I'm impressed /tg/

>> No.10625686


Ultrafag was probably talking about the pure lascannon variant land raider, which is shockingly impractical and an apoc only option.

>> No.10625703

Venomthrope. Provides 5+ cover save to all 'nid units within 6". Handy as FUCK. Also dicks you over in KillPoint matches, since I run them in swarms of *drumroll* 1. And 5+ doesn't do much against focused fire V 1 model.

I generally like Hormagaunts with ToxSacs and Adrenal Glands.
First round of combat you have 4S if you assaulted, which means re-roll to wound V guardsmen/tau/eldar/etc.
Tox Sacs means you wound on 4+, even against extremely high T units (daemons, SM, etc).

I dislike 'nid range. It doesn't fit the fluff, in my mind, and I just like /fucking you up/ in CC. If I run Termagaunts, I generally pop in a Tervigon (read the codex, to the right of the Termagaunt entry -- you can take 'vigons as Troops) or arm them all up with Fleshborers. 30 A3 guns? Yes please!
Note: This consumes a LOT of points. Again, I dislike running ranged.

Tanks? Fuck tanks. >_> They're pricks.
No, I generally attack them with Zoans or 'stealers. Hive Guard look nice, but the Zoan's 3+ invuln makes it a LOT more appealing. Yay survivability!

I have a shitlong list of 500 pt armies I test out with a friend. Lemme see if I can't dig up one...

>> No.10625769
File: 84 KB, 800x600, 633742242675505210-Tyranidgargoyle.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

This is good. He did seem a little quirky and only painted three of his models. I told him about my army and he explained how he would beat it. I figured he was just doing this for his own sake (strategizing out loud) but I wasn't sure if I was making some bad decisions.

Oh, that's good. I don't want to necessariliy win every game and i don't want to lose. A 50-50 record would be fine. I'd just rather have fun.

I see. What's good about those?

Thanks for the tips. Is the anti-tank the devourer or the deathspitter?

Haha, yeah. I wasn't expecting so much great advice.

Here's a motivational poster for your help /tg/

>> No.10625776

Bah. I don't have any good ones on hand, and I need to go.
A nice fluffy armiy I did was based on 'space hulk' -- Genestealers like to inhabit dead ships? IIRC it was a Prime, and 2 'Stealer squads. 1 had a Broodlord, and the Prime attached to the other.

Have fun with it, draw up some lists. I play proxy armies with a friend, since neither of us wants to spend money on figures till we have a decent list.


>> No.10625838

Three pieces of advice:

1) All your units should work together. Don't throw shit in to take up points. It needs to be working in conjunction with the other units.

2) Screen, screen, screen. And then screen some more.

3) 90% of your men will die. You don't get to pick the 10% that will live (they'll probably die first, honestly). That's okay. Plan for it.

>> No.10625866

I have a massive hardon for hormagaunts.

Take your termagaunts, give them speed at the cost for their gun, give them an extra attack and ability to reroll misses on ones.
Now take these already awesome units and give them adrenal glands (since these critters will get the charge most of the times) and then poison.

They cost 10pts each by now but they will buttfuck everything from grots to terminators.

As you are new I can explain why.
Furious charge grants +1 S and I if they charge and poison lets you reroll failed wounds when you have S=targets T.
WS4, S4, I5. Meaning you will strike faster than most meq AND let you reroll failed misses (on ones) and all failed wounds against T4 or lower.

And to make everything better, these will function well without synapse since they will be running where you want them anyway.

A guy at my LGS fielded 50 or so in a 1500pts game and everybody ignored them due to their cannonfodder status. But once they hit the enemy lines everything just got raped hard and fast.

>> No.10625891

Your anti tank weaponry is stiff with strength 8 or higher, preferably higher.
Anything with AP1 or Melta is a bonus
Monstrous creatures also.
Don't worry about how many shots it has, one S10 shot is better than two S8 shots most of the time. As you can only fire at one target per unit.

>> No.10625902


They are AWESOME. I once fielded a swarm real tightly packed - A tervigon, hormagaunts with toxin sacs and a brood of termagants with devourers, plus a Venomthrope in the middle.

With a Venomthrope, all units within 6" get a 5+ cover save. Enemies that assault any of these units lose their charge bonus (which is +1 attack, and attacking first IIRC), AND have to take a dangerous terrain test.

I once DESTROYED a Necron player's Deciever with this tactic. He tried to assault the hormagaunts, but I ended up with higher initiative due to the venomthrope's bonus, so I got to attack first with 40 4+ to wound attacks.

The Venomthrope can shine in 'take and hold' style matches. It makes the swarm more survivable. Add the Tervigon's power to put FNP on a brood of gants, or the thrope, and you have a horde of nids with a modest cover save and FNP.

Tanks are dealt with by Zoanthropes, Hive Guard, or Monstrous creatures primarily. Genestealer hordes also work because of rending.

Tyranids don't have much in the way of anti-tank in comparison to many armies, but the anti-tank they have is very good.

>> No.10625935


Haha, i know it's a lot to ask for an army write up. I'm getting the gist. I think i was using my 'nids almost exactly backwards.

Here you have incredibly useful units backing up a plethora of kickass CC units. I was having my 2 termagaunts backing up a couple fuck-you-up melee guys.

Heavy units seem to be a pain in the ass for everyone, but the Zoans seem to do the trick.

Anyone have experience with mawloc? Some guy who was wearing an armpit-less shirt told me that he would recommend I get it. The ability to burst from the ground to fuck stuff up seems pretty tight.


>> No.10625949

That player was a retard. You don't charge a horde with a god that only has 4 attacks... Just saying

>> No.10625988

Deciever: no
Nightbringer: yes. Dear god yes.
Monolith: better

>> No.10625997

180(?) pts for 3 s6 ap2 blast templates attatched to a monster that is prone to die once they figure out what he is doing?

Nah. The regular trygon is way better.

If you however feel that you need the mawloc then start him on the table, burrow and have him DS in the next round. Now you don't have to roll for reserves!

>> No.10626070

He does have the Nightbringer, but he fields the Deciever more often because it looks really cool. I gave him a spare monstrous creature scything talon bit, and he grafted it onto the end of one of the Deciever's arms.

>> No.10626091

>2) Screen, screen, screen. And then screen some more.
Heh, newbie here. What does this mean? If it's in the core rules, don't worry about it, I'll eventually read it.
>3) 90% of your men will die. You don't get to pick the 10% that will live (they'll probably die first, honestly). That's okay. Plan for it.

Yeah I planned on this much. I heard people fighting against the 'nids tend to try to kill 'nidzilla first.
This is fucking cool as hell. So the termigaunts are turned into melee beasts? Very cool, I'll remember this.

I see. Okay, this makes me feel better. The main guy was just examining one of my setups and was saying, "If i put my tank in there, you won't be able to kill it". So adding a Zoanthrope or two seems to do the trick. That, or the other things you mention.

Solid, this makes sense. I'm following all of this.
Just one question, what's FNP?

>> No.10626143

An abbreviation for 'Feel No Pain'. The unit gets a 4+ save, even if they fail their armor saves. Really useful for gants, who have an awful armor save of 6.

>> No.10626145

FNP = Feel no Pain.
Grants a 4+ feel no pain roll when you fail an armour save unless the wound came from a weapon with twice the strenght as your toughness or ignores armor.
It's really awesome to give your critters this due to most fire concentrated on them will be blasts (can't survive thiss anyhow) or small arms fire (that will become almost useless)

>> No.10626214

Screen: Put lots of crap units in front of your good units to block LOS, making the behind units unshootable (no LOS, no shot).
Units in front: Screen
Units in back: Screened

>> No.10626284

>Heh, newbie here. What does this mean? If it's in the core rules, don't worry about it, I'll eventually read it.

Screening is putting hordes of little dudes (Termagants, mainly) in front of your bigger, better dudes (Warriors, Hive Tyrants etc.). The enemy can't shoot the people at the back, unless they either take a leadership test or opt to shoot for big targets. Even then, the nids at the back get a 4+ cover save because of the horde in front of them.

>> No.10626294

The Doom Of Malan'tai is way undercosted. Everytime my friend has used it, it completeley changed the course of the battle. I play Tau and it especially hurts them (high-cost, low leadership models with no ablative wounds). Damn thing hoovered up 400 points worth of my army, surviving 12 railgun shots before it finally died.

>> No.10626326

Two more bits of advice:

Genstealers rape. IF THEY MAKE IT TO CC.
I7 and lots of attacks + ScyTal + RenClaw + Potential AdrGln and ToxSac means they can FUCK SHIT UP GOOD. But 1 wound a pop and shit for armor means they're also VERY fragile.

If you wanna be a dick and feel like doing some Nidzilla, consider the following:

Hive Tyrant w/ 2x Twin-Linked Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Regen, and Old Adversary.
2x Tyrant Guard attached.
1-2 Venomthrope.

Old Adversary gives Preferred Enemy -- reroll all failed to wound. 2x TL BLW means 12 S6 TL shots. Tyrant Guard + Venomthrope means survivability.

Consider Regen/Wings/Armored Carapace for flavor (costs lots, though).
Consider screening with the melee in front (you only need to block 50% of the unit to get the 4+ cover save, the Retinue is part of the unit, you block 2+ in the Retinue and suddenly you have a 4+ save because of IC rules, disregarding the fact that the HT is an MC).
The above paragraph might confuse the FUCK out of you, but once you understand it it's some neat shit.

>> No.10626332

I figured as much. In fact, I was going to wait until my guants make contact with the enemy before using deep strike or dropping the Doom.

This sounded good in my brain. We'll see if I even can pull it off in an actual game.

I see. It sounds very useful.

You guys have given such outstanding tips. Easily as good as the guys at the game store (except, maybe, the store owner, he had everything memorized and was really helping me make an army that could compete).

Any other essential evolutions/modifications that you guys recommend? How about the Carnifex? Do you guys prefer the long-ranged 'fex? I feel like the linked cannons are just awesome.

>> No.10626358
File: 224 KB, 1024x768, 40kTyranidLictor.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


Most people start 40k with Marines because their simple, but you opted to start with a tougher, rather neglected race...

Kudos, OP. Wish you luck.

>> No.10626386

MANY, not most.


- Dark Eldar starter.

>> No.10626455

Yeah. Will players think I'm a dick if I field it?
I've heard it described as a "nid nuke". Haha.
If it's really that much of a broken guy, i'll probably make one and use it on rare occasions (like 2v2, so at least one person besides me will appreciate it showing up, haha)

Hmmm... would you recommend using a spore to drop the gene stealers? Or would this be a waste?

Also, that nidzilla seems crazy as hell. I'll definately write that down but it sounds like I'll have to buy a few more models to even field something like that.

Right now I'm seeing some good themes:
-Swarms are good. They screen, they rape CC (especially with the right mods), and they work as good fodder.
-Venomthorpes are bro tier, don't pass em up.
-Genestealers, monsterous, and especially Zoans are good vs armored.
-Doom is OP and only dicks use him.
-Carnifex with guns is retarded good.

Fuck yeah.

Good tips.

>> No.10626498

>doesn't mention that most experienced players ebay their first army after getting buttfucked by idiots with overpowered codexs for months and then buy IG/Wolves/otherFOTY

>> No.10626520

The Carnifex got nerfed HARD from 4th edition, but it can still be deadly. Close combat Fexes are best (Scyting talons, crushing claws or both). In broods of 3, they can tear through a tank spearhead (I know a space marine player who uses like, 6 tanks as dedicated transport, shit's annoying) without much difficulty. Can rape troops, too. Their only disadvantage is getting into CC. Most people shoot the big nids first, and fexes are among the biggest.

Ranged fexes (TL devourers and such) are quite good, but forsake a lot of CC capability. You may want to give them a barbed strangler for longer range, because most people shoot at them. A devourer-focussed Carnifex, in my experiences, doesn't get into range often. When they do though, they're often better than a brood of around 20 Termagants.

>> No.10626522

>-Doom is OP and only dicks use him.
Haha oh wow.
Nids need all the help they can get bro.

>> No.10626572

Thanks for the props (i'm op, haha, my computer picked my once-used trip on accident, hope for no confusion).

Nids are cool looking, i like the way they work, and I'm willing to take the time to enjoy them.

Thankfully, I now have the resources to really enjoy them having a job and all.

Your Dark Eldar will provide much biomass for the swarm!

Speaking of Dark Eldar. Do any of you have nids vs specific species tips?

I'm aware that this will depend on many armies. It sounds like a lot are running "mecha" armies (are these dreadnaughts and tanks?)

So, what would you nid experts do to play against say.... marines? orks? etc.

Tau sounds easy enough.... close quickly and engage cc as fast as possible.

>> No.10626594

>Barbed strangler

My bad. Stranglethorn Cannon or Heavy Venom Cannon. Just got my codex out.

>> No.10626726

I see... this is good. I was hoping of having the options of using fexes against tanks. Thanks for the advice. I wonder, the game guy said that I could consider fielding 2 fexes +HQ+2troops (all vanilla) at JUST 500 points. He said that this setup will "win alot" but sometimes people won't want to play.


A kid was buying Space Wolves right before I left. He seemed pretty pumped. I thought they seemed a little campy (coming from a guy who typed SKREEEE earlier, haha). Apparently they have strong heroes, right?

I heard IG are rediculous horde armies. Sort of like the 'nids but better? Meh, I don't want to start 40k with humans... although they are my second choice.

Haha, I was using hyperbole. I just don't want to be "that guy". You know, the guy who only plays to win every game and min/maxes EVERYTHING. I don't mind playing to win... but exploiting constantly would annoy me. I just want to have some fun and be able to put up a fight with my army.

>> No.10626843

Tau get shredded in CC.

Necrons get shredded in CC, but try not to let Pariahs or C'Tan assault you. You get no saves of any kind against them. Monoliths are solved with the anti-tank options we discussed earlier.

SPESS MEHRENS can be deadly. Hellfire ammunition is a huge 'FUCK YOU' to nid players. Everything with hellfire wounds ANY Tyranid on a 2+. Still, Hormagaunts are deadly in CC as always, Toxin sacs can have them destroy even terminators. Try to kill devastator squads, their heavy weapons will fuck your monstrous creatures up. Mawlocs are good for this. Have a decent amount of anti-tank, and try to screen.

Chaos can be solved pretty much in the same way as normal marines, except they don't have hellfire ammo.

Imperial Guard can be challenging. They outnumber you, depending on how many tanks they have. A good amount of Anti-tank and screening should do the trick. Hormagaunts and genestealers can massacre squads of them in one assault phase. Bigger CC things fuck their shit up even further. Don't get me started on what devourer gants can do to them.

I don't have much experience fighting the other races, but...
Eldar can fuck you up.
Blood angels are one of very few armies that actually WANT to get into CC with you.

>> No.10626877
File: 259 KB, 1024x768, 40kTyranidCarnifex.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


Typical IG use infantry as meatshields while the tanks blow you apart from the other side of the table.

Charging at an IG army will only get you mercilessly gunned down by a billion lasguns. You gotta split their fire with your pawns and force them to fight on multiple fronts, so they can't concentrate their firepower.

Then punch a hole with your big shit and fuck the vehicles up.

It'll be costly, but that's expected when you play 'Nids.

>> No.10626934

Beware RAW when it comes to special units.
Doom gets Warp Field.
Warp Field says 'Zoans get 3+ invuln save'
Doom =/= Zoan
RAWfags will say the doom does not get a 3+ save.

This from the dude who talked about that raep Tyrant:
Old Adversary is the shit. I use it whenever I get the Tyrant. Reason: Dude who said Carnifexes with 2x ScyTal was right, they rape.
Now what if, for about a hundred more points, you could give the 'fex 12 s6 TL shots, your tyrant 12 s6 TL shots, AND give them both the equivalent of 2x ScyTal?

Against ranged: Cover, engage in CC ASAP. Try and use 'units in CC block LOS' to your advantage. See: Raveners (beast, assault 12"), Hormagaunts (roll 3d6 on run), Gargoyles (move 12" in movement). Rippers/Sky Slashers also work for this.

Against Armor: Don't stress to much. They only get a couple shots, and if you minimize Nidzilla they're taking out an Ant with an AT rocket -- still just an ant, we got more.

Against armies with a lot of shooty: You have a lot of models. They will miss, you will save. Numbers are your strength. We 'nid players call this 'albative armor' -- using crap models in the same unit as good models to take the heat. See: Genestealers w/ Broodlord.

Mawlocs are nice. Deploy them T1, have them burrow, you WILL get at least 2 Deep Strike Attacks.
However, I find they're eh. Pop up once, get shot to hell, die. Good for diversion, but cost too much.
Trygon Primes are the SHIT, because of the 12 s6 attacks and the fact that they leave a hole behind, can cause Shadows of the Warp, and can Regen.

Haven't tried Tyrannofexes, but I've heard mixed reviews.

>> No.10627134


This site can be good. You can pick up a lot of cool tips for nids. You should read the Vs. Threads and Loate's unit tactica for the best tips.

>> No.10627203

Why are Eldar so good against Nids?
I'm not aware of any locals with Blood Angels, but good advice.
Good call with the Necrons. The game store owner uses them despite how under powered per cost they are. He also uses Tau.

I see..
I'll definately keep that in mind. Would a winged Hive tyrant or burrowing unit with DS (e.g. mawloc) work well?

Fuck yeah. I understood most of this without quesitons. I see some various mods and stuff and I'll understand more when I have all the rulebooks tomorrow, but this shit is gold.

What are Orkz like? Are they pretty tough foes?

>> No.10627221


>The Doom of Malan'Tai
>Special Rules: Warp Field (see page 44)
Which is the Zoanthrope page which states they get a 3+ invul

>> No.10627366

Sometimes it helps to know your opponents strategy against your list, so im going to give you everyone's anti nid strategy, Shoot the big ones.

>> No.10627379

GWAR on DakkaDakka, as well as some vocal others.
Depends on your LGS, but I am just informing the dude of what some RAWfags say.
This is not a RAWfag thread.
Let's keep it that way.

>Why are Eldar so good against Nids?
They can make your psy powers go off 3d6, you keep all, perils on doubles.
Howling Banshees get I10, which even Genestealers with Glands can't beat.
They have good ranged.
Wraithlord fuck ANYTHING without Tox Sacs.
Various other stuff.
If they play on their terms, you're fucked.

>> No.10627413

@500 points

1 Tyranid prime
84 termagaunts

is pretty funny, but i would suggest taking some more synapse

>> No.10627490

eldar aren't especially good against nids though

RoWard? nidz don't rely too much on Psyhic powers to win and you don't perils on doubles just all test that exceed 11 on 3d6

Howling Banshees get I10 only on the turn they charge and are T3 elves with a 4+ so you can shoot them dead pretty easily

>They have good ranged
they have decent range nothing really OP only a few S8 shots and a bunch of S6 but only one that deny your armor save

Wraithlord are only really good against TMC, since they will get tarpitted by swarms or eaten alive by Tsacs

>If they play on their terms, you're fucked.
if you play any game on your opponenets terms you are fucked

>> No.10627538

>they have decent range nothing really OP only a few S8 shots and a bunch of S6 but only one that deny your armor save

im talking about TMC getting their Armor saves not gaunts

>> No.10627627

I'm glad you decided not to play space marines OP, everybody plays space marines. everybody

>> No.10627911

OP, HUGE kudos to you for not starting Marines.

However, you have to realize why Marines are so popular/everyone starts them. They are designed to have an advantage from the get-go in most games, because they are Games Workshops "baby" armies. They are designed to be easy to use and win with, because most of their units are awesome.

However, you are not Marines. You are Xenos. Your stuff is much less "OP" and you have much less variety as many of your units are just not that great.

I'm not a win at all costs asshole, but if you want to win close to any games at all, you have to play much closer attention to what kind of army/units you play if you plan on winning many at all. Thats just the reality of it.

You have to also realize that 40K changes wildly as you go up and down in points. What is good at 1500 pts (Warwalkers for instance) suck at 2000 pts (there is better stuff to use).

Also, like another person said, take Doom. Tyranids got a rather lackluster 5th ed codex (compared to fucking Marines or fucking Imperial Guard, the best army in the game). Do well with what you've got, and remember, you will have to heavily outplay your opponents every game.

>> No.10628146

^Fuck yes I am damn good at killing discussions.

>> No.10628290

More 'nid here.
Still got any questions OP?

>> No.10628323
File: 1.15 MB, 1000x1000, product_bigger.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Tyranid Penis?

>> No.10628436



>> No.10628527

This thread seems to be a bit dead, which is a shame. I've saved this thread because it is a genuinely good Tyranid thread where people don't bitch about the codex.

Bumping in the hope that OP (if they're still here) has more questions that we can answer.

>> No.10628545



>> No.10628571

The codex fucking sucked, they nerfed rippers!

>> No.10628674


I see... i guess it'll take some time. Thankfully I'm not planning on fighting with any Eldar in the near future. Maybe someone local has an army... but I'm hoping to get away with fighting 'rines, orks, tau, wolves, and necrons. I guess another dude has a melee chaos army, but i bet I could match that with the right combination.

Cool. I'll keep that in mind. I'm excited to play xenos, especially 'nids. They just seem cool. Apparently I'll be the first guy in the area that owns 'nids. I expect this to be as much an advantage as disadvantage.

My hope is that I make it my advantage and mix it up. Other than the game owner, I doubt many people are aware of the nuke-effect Doom has, so I plan on dropping that fucker when i finish making a spore.

Thanks for the kudos. I like marines too, and I might eventually expand into a chapter in the future. But like i said earlier, Tyranids just seem... *cool* to me. Ha :D

Thanks again :D

Yes, actually.
So I've gotten a lot of great advice and resources to check out. But i do have some questions.

How do you prepare for a fight against a race you are unfamiliar with? Do you check out the codex before hand?
I'm the sort of guy who likes to assess strengths and weaknesses.

I'm assuming battle will be really the only way to know for sure. I just wonder, given all the unique rules on warping eldar and resurrecting necrons, what I should do to prep.

Also, what sort of HQ units do you run? I chose Tyranid Prime, simply b/c it was the cheapest. But, it's also fairly weak compared to the Tyrant and losing synapse could be disasterous (especially since the termigaunts instinct is to lurk, not feed).

Lastly, do you guys think there are some underestimated units or evolutions that haven't been mentioned here that might be overlooked by a first timer? How about things I should probably avoid?

Sorry for my absence, i was grabbing dinner with some friends.

>> No.10628892

Damn. This thread has been going so well. I hope it hasn't died!

>> No.10628951

Writing a reply now.

>> No.10629045

>How do you prepare for a fight against a race you are unfamiliar with? Do you check out the codex before hand?
>I'm the sort of guy who likes to assess strengths and weaknesses.
You can glance at their codex, sure. But keep in mind that that doesn't tell you how they're going to run their army:
You can do NidZilla or Swarm. Guard can do Boxxy Tank or Armor Rush or Armored Column or Conscript Spam or Commisar Spam etc etc.
Look at the codex, look at what can hurt, prep for that. Maybe google their army, something like 'Imperial Guard armies' or some such.
Honestly, look at how /you/ would kill your 'nid army, using that army. Then prepare to get raped that way.

>I'm assuming battle will be really the only way to know for sure. I just wonder, given all the unique rules on warping eldar and resurrecting necrons, what I should do to prep.
See above.
Honestly, take a note from Hive Fleet Gorgon: Be ready to adapt on the run. They get laz cannons? Hide your big ones till they're dead.
They have psy nulls? Rippers can rape 'em, then blast with Paryoxism.
They have melee raep? Well, that's what swarms are for. Tie 'em up, then bring in the Zillas.
etc. etc.
"Confucious say, the best teacher is Experience."

>> No.10629057

>Also, what sort of HQ units do you run? I chose Tyranid Prime, simply b/c it was the cheapest. But, it's also fairly weak compared to the Tyrant and losing synapse could be disasterous (especially since the termigaunts instinct is to lurk, not feed).
Depends on how you go. The Tyrant can be a BEAST 'zilla, but... it's a 'zilla. Means it attracts nearly all fire. Screened, Venom Cloaked, Retinue, Regen, Armor -- all of these add survivability, and make it a juicier target.
For my swarm armies, I prefer Prime attached to Warriors. Which, honestly, can be even /more/ expensive, but you get a lot of albative armor and other goodies.
I alreay mentioned my HT build. One example:
305 HQ Flyrant x1 w/ Wings+2xBLW+OA+Regen
That'll take out most things 1x1, even Daemon Princes. Especially if you add Tox Sac. But, at 300 pts, it's a GIANT 'shoot me nao plz' sign.

>> No.10629068

>Lastly, do you guys think there are some underestimated units or evolutions that haven't been mentioned here that might be overlooked by a first timer? How about things I should probably avoid?
I alreay mentioned my issues with NidZilla.
Harpies. S5+ToxSac+AdrGln means reroll wounds against most basic infantry, possible ID v weaker dudes, and it can drop spore mines. Pricey though.
Gargoyles. Jump Termagaunts, basically. Dude above talked about tweaking Termas to be decent in CC -- you can use a throwaway group of Gargs to weaken a unit before assaulting, blocking LOS, movement, etc.
Raveners. Assault 12" is NICE, as is instictive Feed, and DS.
Rippers can be your best friend. They can't screen for MCs, but at 10 pts a pop? Decent when your list is less troop focused, or when you just want a carpet of teeth.

Parasite of Mortex is AMAZING when going against things like Eldar, Tau, etc. Weak T units. If it kills them in CC it has a chance to spawn rippers.
Tervigons are amazing too. I heard a story once of a dude playing a 2k army with 2 Tervigons. By the end he had spawned 400 pts of vanilla Termagaunts. That's just... yeah. It's the replacement to 4e's 'Without End' rule.

>> No.10629087

The best way is to always have more targets than they have guns. They shoot the big ones? the smaller ones will fuck your shit. You shoot the small? well now you have monsters in your lines.

Make an allcommers list and you can tackle most people who didn't tailor their list against you

>> No.10629211

On a related note, if they tailor the list to you you're probably fucked anyways.
ANY list specifically made to 'fuck list X up' is probably going to fuck list X up. That's why tournies are less dickish than 1v1.
You play with a friend, he makes an anti-nid SM army. Raeps you every time. You go to a tourney and do that, sure you're raped, but then the Tau come along with a COMPLETELY different playstyle and destroy him.
So don't fall into that trap. Don't build a list to ALWAYS KILL THAT ONE LIST. Build, like Japan said, an all comers list.

>> No.10629249

>tg not being a dick at all

My mind is blown.

>> No.10629253

YAY! More advice to give!

Usually, when fighting something new, I put forth a balanced army. A decent amount of Hormagaunts, Termagants and genestealers, balanced with a Trygon, Hive Tyrant and a Tyrannofex or a Carnifex brood. I sometimes lose, sometimes win. If I lose, I check out their codex and familiarise myself with special rules/abilities that they have. If I win, I assume I have the winning combination versus them.
Couldn't hurt reading their codex beforehand, though. I just try to be way more intimate with mine so I don't have to waste time checking it at every turn.
I don't fight Eldar often, but I imagine there isn't a lot you can do to counter warping.
As for Necrons, keep in mind that they phase out. If you kill (KILL, not down) 75% of all their units with the 'Necron' special rule, they automatically lose. They can't come back if they are instakilled or blocked from teleporting. Lord with resurrection orb negates this.

>> No.10629262

Continued, because of 'field too long' for some reason...
Tyranid prime is awesome if you want to run with a shitload of gaunts. You might need to take a tervigon as a troop choice, though. The other HQs can be really good despite the cost. A winged Hive Tyrant with twin linked devourers and brainleech worms can work wonders for destroying the enemy at a high speed, while keeping out of assault range. Tervigons can spawn Termagants, which is always helpful. The Swarmlord is even better with an 18" synapse range and weapons that make the enemy reroll successful invulnerables. Be sure to take tyrant guard with the Swarmlord. Bigger HQs will often be targeted by your opponent.
To counteract the instinctive behaviour, I field at least 2 broods of warriors that follow the Termagants wherever they go. I also tend to field more Hormagaunts than Termagants, sometimes in a Mycetic spore or with a Trygon.

Unmentioned things...
Gargoyles are quite good. Basically Termagants with wings and better assault capability. They can be quite useful for closing the gap quickly. You can take a risk and 'tarpit' the enemy with them - Hold them in assault until better CC units (Hormagaunts, genestealers) can get there to finish them. This saves your CC specialists from a hail of fire that could potentially kill them.
Be sure to take shrikes (winged warriors) for synapse coverage with Gargoyles.

Biovores are quite good, with a decent barrage attack. IIRC, if you miss, you put a spore mine down where it scattered.

Pyrovores are okay, but often get killed and blow up, causing more harm to you than the enemy. Not really worth it in my opinion.

Old One Eye can be brilliant. A S10 Carnifex that can roll for another hit for each successful one? Great. Regeneration helps a lot, too. His only bad thing is the massive point cost of 260 points. A good investment, but only in higher point games.

Hope this helps you.

>> No.10629313

Solid advice. Knowing your own weaknesses is probably the biggest lesson. Someone earlier who posted the souped up melee termigaunts probably guessed (correctly) that the enemy would assume that they are simply fodder and when they engaged CC he wrecked his opponent.

That Flyrant looks sick. I may have to try it. Currently, I was using Tyranid Primes as my typical HQ with a screen to free up points.

Quick question... are the wings for the flygrant you mentioned included among the biomorphs in the box? Or do i need to look for custom models?

Good ideas. Any notably weak units? I'm surprise you listed rippers, most people mentioned that they were seriously nerfed.

Nice idea. What would an allcomer's list look like?
A mix of ranged, anti-armor, and cc with decent sized swarms? What would yours look like for, say, a 500 point game?

>> No.10629362

Well, there is some Tyranid Penis in the thread?

>> No.10629378

On Necrons: I will pass along some advice I once read.
"When fighting necrons, PRAY for C'Tan and Monoliths. Yes, they are big. Yes, they are scary. They also take up huge amounts of points. Pray they're in the list, and when they come out ignore them. Yes, ignore them entirely. Yes, I know they're killing your men in droves, but chances are whatever firepower you put on that /one model/ could take out /one unit/ of Warriors. And with Phase Out, take a guess which is the better option?"

>Biovores are quite good, with a decent barrage attack. IIRC, if you miss, you put a spore mine down where it scattered.
This is correct. Despite that, I never really saw them as worth it. I haven't used them in a list, but something about a 4' range for a weak blast that might spawn some S1 T1 1W random-movement models? Eh. It never quite struck me as 'a good idea.' I could be wrong!

I also forgot the Swarmlord. Dude is KICKASS in CC. Negate armor, reroll failed invuln, WS9 so you're almost always hitting on a 3+, IIRC 4 attacks (+1 if you assault!), it's a BEAST. S6, I think? Not that it matters, since the swords also cause ID if you successfully wound (see previous 'reroll invuln' line). A true BEAST. Also a huge target.
As said. Retinue, screen, Venomthropes.

>> No.10629381

>are the wings for the flygrant you mentioned included among the biomorphs in the box? Or do i need to look for custom models?

The wings aren't part of the kit.

Forgeworld do custom winged Hive Tyrants. These can be good if you don't have a Hive Tyrant already. Or if you do.

If you want to convert a Hive Tyrant, you can buy a dragon from Warhammer Fantasy, and use the wing bits for converting your Tyrant. The other dragon bits can also be good for random conversions.

>> No.10629409

Not enough.

How big is a Carnifex's dick? Is it harpooning?

>> No.10629500

I sadly don't play nids anymore with me having swiched over to SoB and revived my old (very old) necron army.

For 500pts I would say one brood of hormagaunts with TS/Glands, One brood of infiltrating stealers, 2 Zoans in a pod and one tyranid prime with devourers / LW and bone sword. You might even fit in a small brood of warriors in there to join the prime or you can fill in the rest with more stealers/hormagaunts.

The thing with tyranids is that they don't really fly well in smaller games. You should aim for at least 1000pts to be honest.

Better army building help will I leave to the rest of the fa/tg/uys but this list has antitank enough for small games (zoans and stealers can fuck up armour up to AV13 and that is everything up to LR/Monolith) and quite alot of bodies to survive the way to your target.

>> No.10629502

Well, it allows the Carnifex to make an additional attack in melee with the following profile:

S10, Rending, Lance.

>> No.10629554
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Your necron strategy seems good. I heard the same thing regarding monoliths. Just ignore them and fight other things. What's Phase Out?

I also heard good things about the Hive Guard of all things. Especially in an anti vehicle role? I'd probably pick them up later, because they really seem only useful in higher point games.

Okay, this should be interesting. Any resources for picture tutorials on making modifications? I would hate to fuck it up.

pic related

>> No.10629665

Oh! I should aim for 1000 point armies?

Anyone have a solid allcomers build? I"m not asking you to do my work for me ;) just wondering what you would do.

>> No.10629724

Oh shit! I thought this thread 404'd.
Hrm, I have a bit of catching up to do.

>> No.10629811

Welcome back!
I'm floored by all the help /tg/ has offered. I PROMISE you that I will update you all on my first army. Fuck I need a way to name this army that would reference you guys.

maybe make a custom "hive fleet" and name it ?

Hey /tg/ what would you like your Hive Fleet named and what would you like the color scheme to be?

>> No.10629856

>I also heard good things about the Hive Guard of all things. Especially in an anti vehicle role? I'd probably pick them up later, because they really seem only useful in higher point games.
Roll with EITHER Hive Guard or Zoanthropes. Personally, I prefer Zoanthropes. 3+ save = survivability.
Hive Guard have a 24" Asslt2 S8(might be S9?) weapon. It's good, but they're relatively fragile. A couple pot shots and they're toast. I prefer not having to screen/venomcover/etc them. I once had a Zoanthrope survive roughly three dozen shots because of his Warp Field. AP2, ID, all sorts of fun stuff.

>Oh! I should aim for 1000 point armies?
500 is nice for friendly pickup, but stupidly limited (basically, whoever goes first wins).
I did some net trawling, the 'preferred' size is 1750-2000.
I play proxy armies (MY METAL WASHERS ATTACK YOU. It cost $20, fuck off >_>), so I can build a nice 1500, but that's about it. 1000 is a nice size, much better than 500. You can actually have units! It's crazy.

>Anyone have a solid allcomers build? I"m not asking you to do my work for me ;) just wondering what you would do.
I had one. I might see if I can dig it out... apparently I didn't update my text file list.

>> No.10629903

I remember starting 'nids.
No fucking idea what was going on.
Took a week to make my first army, and it was pretty shitty.
Have about 30 'derp' list ideas floating around. Most suck horribly, but they're funny.
What is the internet for, if not to share ideas?

And dude, totally name the army after us, totally DON'T paint it for us. This is going to be something of yours, that you will sink some real cash into. It should be yours. Honor us, don't be pants-on-head-retarded and give us complete control of your army. You'll get people like carnifex-penis-boy giving you colors.
(I plan on painting mine Bone White with a touch of sand, and red. One of my Warriors was pre-painted, I love it, I plan on fixing my army after it)

>> No.10629916

As for names. It looks like hive fleets are named after mythical creatures. So, if we wanted the fleet to be abbreviated /tg/ we should pick something that starts with t... and has a g somewhere in it?

Current list:
Tangie (Scottish) - Shapeshifting water spirit
Teju Jagua (GuaranĂ­) - Lizard with seven dog heads
Tiangou (Chinese) - Meteoric dog
Tianlong (Chinese) - Celestial dragon
Tikbalang (Philippine) - Anthropomorphic horse
Timingila (Hindu) - Sea monster
Tsuchigumo (Japanese) - Shapeshifting, giant spider
Tsukumogami (Japanese) - Inanimate object that becomes animated after existing for 100 years
Tugarin Zmeyevich (Slavic) - Evil shapeshifter

hmm... all of these seem kinda lame.

>> No.10629921

I named my splinter fleet "Splinter fleet Norrland" (north part of sweden) and painted them in a snowy theme with blue and white.

For your own scheme I suggest you find inspiration in nature aswell.

The next time you post I can help you with a list since I still play warhammer and have theoretical knowledge about the new nids even if I don't play them. But for now 'm off to school.

Good luck and welcome

>> No.10630040

I see... i suppose it's the range advantage that had the hive guard looking so appealing.

if you can dig it up, that would be incredible.
Wow :D

Good point. I'll probably end up picking the scheme, then.

I like leviathan's. White as a base is just so clean and cruel. It's almost like the brood doesn't mind that it is the most bold color, it's going to fuck you up whether you can see them or not. haha

>> No.10630065

'Hive Fleet Insert Name Here'

Found my old list.
HQ: Hive Tyrant with Lash Whip, Bonesword, 2x Twin-Linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms and Old Adversary. 210 pts.
Retunie: 2x Tyrant Guard (vanilla). 120 pts.

19x Hormagaunts with Tox Sacs and Adrenal Glands. 190 pts.
19x Hormagaunts with Tox Sacs and Adrenal Glands. 190 pts.

Venomthrope. 55 pts.
Venomthrope. 55 pts.
3x Zoanthrope. 180 pts.

Venoms provide cover, HT/Zoans provide Synapse, Zoans provide AT, HT provides MC, Hormagaunts provide CC, TG provide Albative Armor. Only thing lacking is
1) MORE MODELS (Orks need MOAR DAKKA, 'nisd need MOAR MODELS)
2) Ranged in general. Zoans can pop some, HT can pop some, but it's a bit weak here. But we're Tyranids, what do you want!?

>> No.10630131

LOSless attacking is what made the Hive Guard so appealing.
"There's CC in the way? NO MATTER!"
"There's a building in the way? NO MATTER!"
"There's a large tank in the way? NO MATTER!"
Screening against them is impossible. Well, near impossible.

Oh, and Lictors. Lictors are pretty, can be fun, but are mostly crap because they can't assault after DSing.
That special one (fuck I can't remember his name!) is alright, because of the LD loss and the ability to pop in and out of fucking everywhere. When he gets popped he's toast, though. If you use him, try and keep him in cover.
Because of the LD loss he's quite good against psy-focused lists. Only d3 loss, but every bit helps.

>> No.10630185

It's my opinion that the tyranid is prime is, tyrants be damned, probably the best HQ choice around.

Though he is a little better when he has warrior friends to give his BS/WS to.

>> No.10630253


>> No.10630286

consider having broodlords around to lower enemy Ld for the drop

>> No.10630296

Interesting links:

>> No.10630315

Same for Psykers.
Why didn't I realize this?
Thank you anon.
I just found my 'fuck you Eldar Farseer' solution.

>> No.10630413

He's cheap, with a bonesword (and a lashwhip) or two can challenge almost any HQ unit and win, and with a contingent of 3 W warriors, who are granted his WS and BS (seems to work well with deathspitters). The unit is admittedly slow and lascannon bait, but otherwise soaks up alot of damage and, with such cheap power weapons, can tear through any unit.

>> No.10630455

A fair point.
I enjoy his ability to attach to any squad. Even Hormagaunts, for example.
I believe he's the 'nids only IC.

>> No.10630522

Well my fellow 40k'ers
This has been an incredible thread.
Unfortunately I must go. I have work to do soon.
I look forward to talking to you more. After I buy my first few armies I'll ask for Splinter Hive Names and think of a few in the meantime.

Thanks agian!!

>> No.10630566

I stayed up till 4am where I am to give advice in this thread.

It was worth it.

>> No.10631193

also makes enemy re-roll invulns. He is the bossmonster of the nids, though his cost reflects that.
If you use him, it's generally a good idea to give him hive guard.
But if used right, (2 psychic powers per turn, wtf) he is a beast.

>> No.10631291

>hive guard
sorry, tyrant guard. Seriosly, there are some atrocious fucking names this codex. (Swarmlord? Tyrannofex?)

>> No.10632785

>Timingila (Hindu) - Sea monster

Hive Fleet /Timin Gila/

Hive fleet Timingila is badass. I may just have to steal that if I ever make a tyranid army.

>> No.10635584


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