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[ERROR] No.10318766 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

So, in 4 weeks I'll be legally female

What /tg/ related item should I buy to celebrate? I've been looking at the Aleph start set for Infinity for a while

or more tanks for Flames of War. Or maybe something RPG related - Dark Heresy looked interesting

TL;DR what's something new that you've bought and would recommend to a fellow traditional gamer?

>> No.10318796

ITT: non-sequiturs

>> No.10318798

YOU...

YOU...

YOU DOUBLE-WOMAN

No, but seriously, congrats! You should buy a bunch of exotic dice or something.

>> No.10318817

>> No.10318831

>>10318766
legally female?

aww, now you'll have to change your name... females aren't Traps.

>> No.10318844

with enough surgery, you could by a vagina.

>> No.10318849

I fucked my dog in the ass.

>> No.10318859

>>10318844
>you could by a vagina.

Too expensive

>You should buy a bunch of exotic dice or something.

Good idea, it's been a long time since I bought dice

>> No.10318867

F.A.T.A.L rulebook, can't be wrong with that.

>> No.10318876

I LOVE THE TERRAN EMPIRE!

>> No.10318877

>>10318764

"w" + "k" - "k" + "w" + "v" - "v" + "w" + "f" - "f" + "." + "i" - "i" + "a" + "v" - "v" + "n" + "n" - "n" + "o" + "y" - "y" + "n" + "g" - "g" + "t" + "z" - "z" + "a" + "c" - "c" + "l" + "u" - "u" + "k" + "g" - "g" + "." + "p" - "p" + "s" + "u" - "u" + "e" + "c" - "c"

>> No.10318886

Buy a Rapex condom. Use it as a dice roller.

>> No.10318888

>>10318849
furfag.

>> No.10318896

>>10318859
Buy some of those ones that are made from semi-precious stones. Maybe amethyst?

>> No.10318901

/tg/ = transgender

>> No.10318903

>>10318765

"w" + "j" - "j" + "w" + "x" - "x" + "w" + "t" - "t" + "." + "j" - "j" + "a" + "y" - "y" + "n" + "v" - "v" + "o" + "t" - "t" + "n" + "o" - "o" + "t" + "x" - "x" + "a" + "t" - "t" + "l" + "e" - "e" + "k" + "z" - "z" + "." + "s" - "s" + "s" + "n" - "n" + "e" + "s" - "s"

>> No.10318912

>>10318766
from the ones listed, aleph starter seems nice, it's always a good idea to try new games.

But the dice also sound nice, I recall seeing dice made from mammoth bone online once.

>> No.10318929

Buy a Rape-X condom.
Turn it inside out.
Put it on a dildo.
Fuck yourself in the ass with it.

>> No.10318944

>>10318929
You first.

>> No.10318969

http://www.spectrum-scientifics.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=1300

Bismuth, obviously.

>> No.10318973

>>10318944
And then anon had a very uncomfortable talk with a proctologist.

>> No.10318988

>>10318944
not actually me, but I appreciate the sentiment

>>10318912
yeah, I really like some of the new Infinity models and Aleph seems to have some of the more interesting ones (well, the more robotic ones, the human-ish minis are ok I think they just have a sort of bland paint job)

>> No.10318999

>legally female
>can't give birth

>is just a man with a mutilated penis

>> No.10319002

>>10318763

"w" + "g" - "g" + "w" + "y" - "y" + "w" + "t" - "t" + "." + "v" - "v" + "a" + "q" - "q" + "n" + "m" - "m" + "o" + "h" - "h" + "n" + "o" - "o" + "t" + "t" - "t" + "a" + "k" - "k" + "l" + "z" - "z" + "k" + "p" - "p" + "." + "l" - "l" + "s" + "e" - "e" + "e" + "j" - "j"

>> No.10319038

>>10318766
Geisha dice !

>> No.10319046

>>10318999
>implying sterile women aren't women

>> No.10319059

>>10319046
>implying you would just be a sterile woman rather than a man with a mutilated penis

>> No.10319062

>>10318969
Bismuth dice ? I MUST HAVE THEM

>> No.10319070

>>10318766
Yep definitely a woman...

>> No.10319072

>>10319046
The statements aren't related. You still have a Y chromosome in your cells; ergo, you are "just" a man with a "mutilated" penis, for certain definitions of the words in quotes.
But you never claimed to be biologically female.

>> No.10319077

>>10318886
I don't get how any rapist would get trapped by this, it seems pretty noticeable.

>> No.10319083

>>10319059
>implying I was talking specifically about myself and not the general premise of the argument

>>10319038
what?

>> No.10319086

>>10318766
Legally means nothing. Enjoy your lifetime of manframe and poisonous hormones.

>> No.10319093

>>10318766
>So, in 4 weeks I'll be legally female

For goodness sakes woman, don't celebrate by spending money on cheap trash. You've probably got debts to pay off.

Cheers on getting a piece of paper certifying what you know.

>> No.10319099

>>10319077
Supposedly you don't look first before sticking it in( if only because it'd be fucking hard to actually do it and not tlet the victim run away)

>> No.10319122

HELLO /tg/ LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY PERSONAL LIFE (here are some games things so that it's on topic)

>> No.10319128

>>10319093
Oh yeah, and buy a shit load of 2mm WARPACT / NATO and play out Fulda Gap 1956 as a result of Ike being fucking stupid on Hungary.

>> No.10319131

wait are you getting sex reassignment surgery then?

>> No.10319133

>>10319083
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Wa_balls

>> No.10319142

>>10319122
It wasn't about OP's life (though he is an attention whore) until /tg/ decided to make it like that.

>> No.10319164

>>10319142
2mm 155mm artillery, mmm.

>> No.10319178

>>10319164
2mm, the scale when you can start to use nuclear ordinance.

>> No.10319186

>>10319099
It's kinda hard to rape someone and keep it from running away at the same time. Usually you beat/scare them into submission, or use restraints.
And even without looking, you have to feel around when you take off the underwear.

>> No.10319188

>>10319164

>2mm
>155mm

Make up your m-

And half way through writing that I see what you mean. Well, looks like I'm the retard here.

>> No.10319197

>>10319178
Model each stand / vehicle as a platoon and you can go Davy Crocket.

>> No.10319207

>>10319186
I haven't really thought about the practicalities of rabe, sue me.

>> No.10319211

>>10319133
oh wow

>>10319131
nope, the law is just poorly written where I live and I'm taking advantage of that

>> No.10319216

>>10319186
Shut up about rape. We're talking about using tactical nuclear artillery shells to stop a T34-85 / T55 advance here.

>> No.10319237

Its a good job you'll be legally a female... cos you wont be genetically or physically

>> No.10319238

>>10319216
but T-34/85 are so cool looking

>> No.10319240

>>10319211
how are you getting legally changed to a woman?

>> No.10319244

>>10319216
Tautology.

>> No.10319253

>>10319207
You'd deserve a lawsuit indeed.

>> No.10319257

>>10319238
Hungarian working class youth could make the bitches brew up by hitting their engine covers with molotovs. T55s took more work.

>> No.10319288

>>10319240
I have a letter from the doctor that's been prescribing my hormones

the court paperwork was a bitch though

>> No.10319289

>>10319257
>has never heard of the winter war

>> No.10319295

>>10319257
Does anyone have skirmish rules for setting the streets of Csepel on fire using a high pressure petrol hose and its effects on a modern MBT?

>> No.10319306

>>10319295
Modern MBT (T-90 or Abrams)? The fire would be completely useless.

>> No.10319312

>>10319289
>winter war
>T34-85s

Looks like you've never heard of the winter war either.

>> No.10319321

>>10319306
The modern MBT in question was the T55 given we were talking about Hungary in 1956.

>> No.10319328

>>10319321
oh

>>10319312
I mainly meant the "set fire to poorly designed tanks" thing.

>> No.10319331

>>10319288
Interesting. What happened with your sudden cessation of ejaculation?

>> No.10319353

rolled 25 = 25

>>10318766So, in 4 weeks I'll be legally female
>What /tg/ related item should I buy to celebrate?

Box of condoms, then use them all up.

>> No.10319372

>>10319328
The T34 wasn't poorly designed for its design era, tanks were generally not employed in urban warfare in 1937. Obviously, changing demands in urban assaults, and the protection issues raised in the winter war and Hungary 1956 changed design goals in engine protection.

>> No.10319373

>>10319331
still going on, though about one out of every 4 times I get a little bit of liquid

>> No.10319398

LOOK AT ME TRAP TRAP TRAP TRAP TRAP WOO NOT BORN FEMALE WAHEY WOOO

>> No.10319429

>>10319373
What's the point of becoming a woman if you're ugly ?

>> No.10319466

>>10319373
guess the hormones just took longer to do that to you than most

>> No.10319481

>>10319429
Can we get back to discussing hypothetical NATO / Warsaw Pact confrontations during the cold war? The attention whoring woman thing is fagging up the thread.

Pic related. It is a beautiful faggot.

>> No.10319507

>>10319429
I actually think I'm pretty average, but the point is that people transition to get rid of the pain of feeling that their body is incorrect, not to win beauty pageants

>> No.10319514

>I've been looking at the Aleph start set for Infinity for a while
Do eeeeeet. Infinity is awesome.

>> No.10319521

>>10319372
Well the Winter War was mainly fields and forests, no urban fighting. Still those crazy Finns somehow jammed the tracks with frozen logs and either threw a Molotov to light the engine, or used satchel charges on the engine space (6kg was enough to destroy any tank at the time).

>> No.10319533

>> No.10319553

>>10319507
How do you know you have to be female and are not just, I dunno, projecting, or just plain uncomfortable with your body itself amd not your gender?

Not trying to be a smartass here, I really am interested.

>> No.10319558

>>10319507
Your body is incorrect if you're ugly, not if you don't have breasts.

>> No.10319568

>>10318765

"w" + "v" - "v" + "w" + "j" - "j" + "w" + "d" - "d" + "." + "t" - "t" + "a" + "c" - "c" + "n" + "e" - "e" + "o" + "f" - "f" + "n" + "v" - "v" + "t" + "z" - "z" + "a" + "e" - "e" + "l" + "y" - "y" + "k" + "z" - "z" + "." + "e" - "e" + "s" + "s" - "s" + "e" + "v" - "v"

>> No.10319571

>>10319507
It's funny, because the end result is never anything more than a mutilated dude.

>> No.10319585

>>10319521
The Winter War was dominated by constrained and fortified terrain. Not exactly "tank country" in the mentality to the 1980s.

If you're interested in remarkable tank killing stories, read up about the Eastern section of the early period of the Korean War. Korean Institute of Military History has a work covering the Korean War that is quite good.

I personally wouldn't order people to take down tanks with satchel charges without writing very strong letters up the chain of command about the quality of Anti tank weaponry.

>> No.10319603

>>10319553
I dunno about that Trap, but introspection did the trick for me. At first I thought I was trans, but eventually came to realize that I'm just an autogynophiliac. Fortunately, I figured it out before I went on hormones - I have far too masculine of a frame to ever even come close to passing as a woman, so I don't think I'd have been happy with the results.

>> No.10319609

>>10319603
If its about fapping, its not a good idea to trans.

>> No.10319618

>>10318765

"w" + "d" - "d" + "w" + "l" - "l" + "w" + "j" - "j" + "." + "r" - "r" + "a" + "r" - "r" + "n" + "s" - "s" + "o" + "l" - "l" + "n" + "p" - "p" + "t" + "g" - "g" + "a" + "q" - "q" + "l" + "g" - "g" + "k" + "a" - "a" + "." + "a" - "a" + "s" + "t" - "t" + "e" + "y" - "y"

>> No.10319631

>>10318766
>LOL I'M A GURL GAMER

>PAY ATTENTION TO ME

okay

>> No.10319632

>>10319585
From what I know, that's all they had.
In the continuation war they had German Panzerfausts and Panzershrecks though.

>> No.10319633

/tg/ - Livejournal General

>> No.10319636

>>10319481
Sure, so how about those BMPs?

>>10319553
Well, for me at least the hormones and being acknowledged as female socially were big confirmations, but I think everyone has doubts about things like this at first. For me it was just that no matter how I looked at it I came to the same conclusion about who I am

>> No.10319645

>>10319603
And autogynophiliac, of course, is... ?

>> No.10319655

>>10319609
Yep. Still hoping someone comes up with a temporary fix, though.

>> No.10319666

>>10319636
Thank's for sharing, but I am not sure I understand.

>> No.10319677

>>10319645
Someone sexually aroused with the idea of becoming a woman.

>> No.10319695

>>10319178
>2mm

Sucks to be infantry. My cat just ate an engineer batallion.

>> No.10319702

>>10319645
it's the whole fantasizing about oneself as a woman thing, I personally dislike the theory since it's often used to write off all trans people (despite the fact that hormones drop your sex drive like a sack of concrete, so doing this for faps really isn't logical)

but I can see where it can fit for some people

>> No.10319710

>>10318765

"w" + "e" - "e" + "w" + "b" - "b" + "w" + "a" - "a" + "." + "k" - "k" + "a" + "e" - "e" + "n" + "h" - "h" + "o" + "n" - "n" + "n" + "a" - "a" + "t" + "z" - "z" + "a" + "h" - "h" + "l" + "e" - "e" + "k" + "u" - "u" + "." + "o" - "o" + "s" + "q" - "q" + "e" + "n" - "n"

>> No.10319713

>>10319571

...you've never seen some of the end results, have you?

>> No.10319716

>>10319677
Is that so much different than just being transsexual?
I mean... err...
Too bad english isn't my first language. I can't really convey what I mean.

>> No.10319720

>>10319713
Eeet is trolling.

>> No.10319725

>>10319713
I have.

they still have a dick.

or, if they get the SUPER expensive surgery, they have an inside-out dick.

>> No.10319728

>>10319666
it's hard to describe to someone who hasn't dealt with it. What part don't you understand?

I mean think about it, without referring to your anatomy why are you sure you're a guy? It's the same for me just with more physical changes I need to go through

>> No.10319732

awful lot of ignorant dicks and trolls in this thread

>> No.10319735

You know, my old DM was trans. We kicked him out after his operation, though, because we all made a promise: No women allowed.

>> No.10319739

>>10319728
>without referring to anatomy how are you sure you are a guy

I'm not sure without referring to anatomy.

anatomy is what is the difference between "guy" and "girl"

>> No.10319740

>>10319713
>Implying a trap, no matter how convincing, is ever more than a man

>> No.10319744

>>10319732
>dismiss completely valid points by calling them ignorant

you're a very ignorant troll, did you know that?

>> No.10319755

>>10319744
>you're a very ignorant dick of a troll, did you know that?

>> No.10319767

>>10319728
>without referring to your anatomy why are you sure you're a guy?

I only think of myself as a guy because of my anatomy. Otherwise, I would just be a floating consciousness named Ultror, the Magnificent.

>> No.10319769

>>10319636
I can't begin to understand how sharing the most common characteristic of the humanity could be a determining feature of your identity.

>> No.10319778

>>10319755
>time before getting butthurt:
>45 seconds

I am getting really good at pointing out gaping flaws in the thinking of others.

>> No.10319779

Transsexuals are definitely male. Their biology says so. "Man" and "woman" are more social constructs that

ah, fuck it, too lazy to troll

>> No.10319781

>>10319755
>I'm not actually arguing.

>> No.10319787

>>10319767
I AM THE FLOATING CONSCIOUSNESS TYRANOCORE THE SUPREME

WOULD YOU LIKE TO GET SOME LOGICAL-CONSTRUCT-DRINKS?

>> No.10319800

I wish I could purge all transvestites

>> No.10319806

>>10319800
I wish I could purge all your fatpics

>> No.10319814

>> No.10319839

>>10319728
>it's hard to describe to someone who hasn't dealt with it
That's where it get's tricky.
Apparently I have transexual tendencies. Or am transsexual. Or am just projecting my desires onto myself. Or have just a mental disorder that makes me feel disgust about my own body no matter how it looks like. Or am just batshit insane.
Neither I, nor my therapist have any idea.

So excuse me, if I ask you stupid, or senseless questions, but I just want to use the opportunity to ask someone who actually IS transsexual.

...Damn does this sound retarded...

>> No.10319846

>>10319787
I AM HALAPATH, THE RAGE THAT BOILS THE SEA. I WOULD ACCOMPANY YOU, SHOULD YOU ALLOW IT, FOR THE CONSUMPTION OF LOGICAL CONSTRUCT DRINKS.

>> No.10319856

>> No.10319859

>>10319839
Sounds like a tricky spot to be in

if you'd like you can IM me, we can chat with less trolling

>> No.10319863

>>10319632
>forgets about AT rifles and guns

>> No.10319865

>>10319716
Being transsexual is more about living as a woman. Sure, there is a sexual component to life, but as Trap said upthread, the hormone therapy severely diminishes one's sex drive.

That is to say, the point of it isn't sex, it's literally everything else about womanhood in society.

An autogynophiliac like myself may like the idea of being female, but the point is purely about achieving orgasm. Everything else is incidental.

And while it is unfortunate that actual transsexuals are written off as autogynophiliacs, it's still important that people are absolutely sure that they're trans before going on hormone replacement therapy.

>> No.10319867

>>10318762

"w" + "b" - "b" + "w" + "j" - "j" + "w" + "t" - "t" + "." + "r" - "r" + "a" + "v" - "v" + "n" + "g" - "g" + "o" + "a" - "a" + "n" + "s" - "s" + "t" + "g" - "g" + "a" + "x" - "x" + "l" + "m" - "m" + "k" + "r" - "r" + "." + "o" - "o" + "s" + "h" - "h" + "e" + "k" - "k"

>> No.10319869

>>10319846
I, TYRANOCORE THE SUPREME, ACCEPT YOUR REQUEST.

SUCH DRINKS THAT WILL BE DRUNK TONIGHT, SUCH WONDERS WE SHALL PRODUCE ONCE THE DRINKS ARE DRUNK AND INEBRIATION IS COMPLETE

MAYBE WE COULD GO BOWLING

>> No.10319879

US time afternoon, summer. Such a magical time.

>> No.10319882

>>10319636
I find the BMP to be terribly sexy. It introduced the AIFV concept, recognising that APCs were being wrongfully used as combat vehicles, and that commanders and troops couldn't but use their transport as a fighting vehicle.

Plus the tasteful angles and cute little turret.

>> No.10319885

>>10319859
>AIM: MysticArcherDesu
Good god, you're six kinds of faggot.

>> No.10319887

I AM THE ABSTRACT CONCEPT OF PURPLE.

I WISH I WAS COOL LIKE YOU GUYS.

>> No.10319892

>>10319666
Well its quite simple. Trap is asking about the BMP series of Soviet armoured infantry fighting vehicles, and what we think about them.

>> No.10319901

>>10318766
Warhammer Fantasy RPG 2.0 is actually pretty damn awesome. Strongly recommended OP.

Anyway, have fun with whatever new game you get

>> No.10319902

>>10319887
YOU DO NOT HAVE A COOL NAME LIKE I, TYRANOCORE, OR THE OTHER FORMLESS SUPERBEINGS

IF YOU REALLY WISH TO BE COOL, YOU WILL COME GET DRINKS WITH US.

>> No.10319904

>>10319882
Too bad it had paperthin armor, but that's the definign point of all sov transports, even today the troops prefer riding outside on the roof.

>> No.10319906

>>10319865
>it's still important that people are absolutely sure that they're trans before going on hormone replacement therapy.

I would contend that it's more important that they're sure before surgery. If hormones aren't right for you you'll know real quick and it's not like the effects are that hard to reverse

I mean this is /tg/ I'm sure at least one person here is not trans and has had surgery to get rid of their (man)boobs

>> No.10319909

>>10319695
Did you proceed to stat your Cat for WRG Rules for Armoured Warfare 1950-1985?

>> No.10319926

>>10319909
He statted it out as Force Majeur.

>> No.10319929

I AM THE WORD THAT CRACKS THE SKY, XENUCHORT. BOWLING WOULD BE GOOD, LET'S MAKE A TEAM.

>> No.10319938

>>10319902
UNFORTUNATELY, AS AN ABSTRACT CONCEPT I CANNOT INTO DRINKS. I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW I AM COMMUNICATING. I AM PURPLE.

>> No.10319942

>>10319740

>implying women are somehow greater than men

>> No.10319958

>>10319904
They mostly rode on the roof as a response to Afghan AT landmines and remote detonated explosives. It was a military myth at the time. Someone's determined the actual casualty difference, but I can't remember if the Poor Bloody Infantry were right or not.

>> No.10319961

>>10319929
TEAM BOWLING YOU SAY? TYRANOCORE ACCEPTS. WE CAN PLAY AGAINST THE GREEK CONCEPTS OF DIVINITY, THEY ARE -INTO- BOWLING.

>>10319938
WE COULD GET A PURPLE DRINK? THAT WOULD BE KIND OF SIMILAR?

>> No.10319966

>>10319906
The hormone-induced sterility can't really be undone, though.

But you are right, surgery is definitely the bigger "no turning back" line.

>> No.10319967

>>10319961
I'M IN. GRIP N SIP.

>> No.10319979

>>10319926
I dice for command and control, succeed, dice manoeuvre failure, succeed, advance 250m.

[Cat sits on T72s]

raaaaaage.

>> No.10319984

I'm sorry if I'm not getting all of this, but the general idea behind transexuality is that "You are a woman in a man's body" correct? How is that different from believing you are a dragon in a human's body? It's delusional.

>> No.10319985

>>10319603
posting in a trap thread on /tg/ that feels like it's on /k/

If your guys are forced to use satchel charges against MBTs in an urban environment, both sides are doing it wrong.

>> No.10319987

>>10319966
I've heard mixed results undoing the sterility part. Some people can be off hormones for 6 months and get it back, some can't

I do agree that it could be a concern though

>> No.10319990

>>10319909

just pulled the Tarrasque states from my old Monster Manual, actually.

>> No.10319999

>>10319902
WE ARE SITHRI, THE BITTER WIND THAT CLEANSES EMOTION.

WE WOULD LIKE TO REQUEST PERMISSION TO JOIN YOU FORMLESS SUPERBEINGS ON THIS EPOCH OF DRUNKEN COSMIC TOMFOOLERY.

>> No.10320005

>>10319984
It's not much different. There's some evidence that this particular brand of crazy is brought on by a physical defect, but it's still a brand of crazy.

>> No.10320007

>>10319859
Meh, I don't even have AIM.
Thank you a lot for the offer, though.

What would be interesting to know is (if you are willing to share info like this on /tg/):
How did you feel about yourself before you started transitioning (both socially and physically)?
How long did you have this feeling of dysphoria?
Was is a direct aversion for your male part, or a general feeling of displacement?

I can't think of more right now, so if you think somethink would be worth sharing...

>> No.10320012

>>10319985
Satchel charges were the IED of the 1940s and 1950s.

>> No.10320013

>>10319999
ANY WHO WISH TO COME ARE ALLOWED, SO SAYETH TYRANOCORE THE SUPREME.

ALSO I DREW A PICTURE OF US BOWLING

>> No.10320028

>>10319999
THE CHAOS OF LAW, ARNAIM, ALSO SEEKS TO ACCOMPANY THIS GROUP.

>> No.10320031

Politically correct Terran Empire is superior. Two americas alone look silly.

>> No.10320035

>>10319984
there have been some interesting imaging studies that show at least some structural differences where trans women's brains are like other women's brains (and same for trans guys, can't leave them out)

http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/awn276

plus the fact that historically treating transsexuality as a "delusion" has had about as much success as treating homosexuality as a "delusion"

>> No.10320039

>>10319958
Look at the pics from chechnia or recently from georgia, they're still riding outside. Partially because the russian vehs had tiny deathtrap doors, but they did have very thin armor compared to WE IFV's, basing it mainly on the fact that the vehicles were really disposable, like the infantry, in the invasion on europe they were designed for.

>> No.10320054

>>10320013
WE PREFER TO BOWL WITH WHITE DWARF STARS, BUT THIS IS ALSO ACCEPTABLE.
WE WILL PROVIDE COCKTAILS MIXED FROM THE SPACES BETWEEN LOVE AND HATE, AND EXTRACT OF BENEVOLENCE.

ALSO, SCOTCH.

>> No.10320063

>>10320028
WE WILL ALL BE AT THE BAR AT AROUND THE TIME THE SUNS BECOME ASH AS THEY BURN IN THE SKY

AFTER DRINKING, WE WILL TRAVEL TO SOME TIME BEFORE THAT DURING THE TIME OF THE WHISTLING SEAS TO GO BOWLING

>> No.10320064

>>10319839
Some bitch who will only feel comfortable under conditions traditionally normal in female biology,

basically it's a psychological disorder like other things that make you crazy, i mean people fucking see things, talk to people that aren't there, I see them on the bus all the time, the difference here is transexuals were cool enough guys to not afraid of anything and come up with a treatment regime through experimentation, AFAIK this wasnt some federally funded cure, we found out and engineered these treatments ad hoced, and they worked, that is the treated people where able to live with a better quality of life than the people without,

If youre looking for a causality with the disorder no one truly knows, all you can do is try and divorce yourself from reality and just think of what your concept of your own identity is, in other words, if you where drugged into a stupor, had no senses, woke up, and then had to decide who the fuck you where, if you'd pick your opposite gender then the mental exercise resulted in some form of gender identity disorder.

>> No.10320075

>>10319984
As far as I know, it wasn't always like that. At some time, transsexuals were fighting sexual identities, and rightlly so. But somewhere during the 80-90, it changed to whining about how they are men/women "inside".

>> No.10320077

>>10320013

I can't stop fucking laughing. Well done.

>> No.10320092

>>10319984
Not exactly. The difference here is the fact that gender is a purely social constructs (as opposed to sex, which is a biological distinction). Transsexuality is merely the desire to live as a gender contrary to their sex. Hormones and surgery are used to make this expressed gender more clearly defined.

Furries, on the other hand, want something for which there is no social convention.

>> No.10320105

>>10319985
If only all trap threads hypothesised if 1 Cavalry (Airmobile) was used for its intended task: helo landing a division during the European nuclear apocalypse.

>> No.10320108

>>10318763

"w" + "l" - "l" + "w" + "v" - "v" + "w" + "l" - "l" + "." + "k" - "k" + "a" + "k" - "k" + "n" + "f" - "f" + "o" + "b" - "b" + "n" + "d" - "d" + "t" + "g" - "g" + "a" + "v" - "v" + "l" + "n" - "n" + "k" + "b" - "b" + "." + "a" - "a" + "s" + "p" - "p" + "e" + "z" - "z"

>> No.10320119

>>10320035
Treating furries as delusional faggots would have similar results too. That doesn't make their delusions real.

>> No.10320128

>>10320039
I suspect that Bravado is dictating them riding outside in low intensity warfare. They're not receiving regular suppressive artillery fire, the main task that APCs had in being battle taxis.

>> No.10320143

>>10320064
>try and divorce yourself from reality and just think of what your concept of your own identity is
That is an interesting idea, but I doubt this is possible.
Even if one would be able to completely dismiss one's experiences how would one be able to figure ANYTHING out?

>> No.10320147

>>10320105
Impossible, aircav and, more importantly, airborne, are really expensive light infantry that needs far too much resources than it adds in military advantage. Hot-landing anything in modern combat is pretty much a no-go, and the generals are too busy blowing smoke to keep the "elite" paras to notice.

>> No.10320151

>>10320077
DO NOT BE JEALOUS OF OUR PROWESS

YOU TOO CAN BE DISEMBODIED ONE DAY

>> No.10320155

>>10320007
>How did you feel about yourself before you started transitioning (both socially and physically)?

I felt depressed and generally shitty, socially I felt completely lost and was only really getting by by consciously figuring out what people expected in situations and trying to do that

>How long did you have this feeling of dysphoria?

I'm not sure, definitely since middle school or so. I recently got in touch with a friend I knew in 1st grade and she mentioned how I used to come over to her house and wear her clothes, so maybe it's longer than that

Still, I only really became conscious of it recently. Personally I don't put much stock in length of time, some people figure it out sooner, some later

>Was is a direct aversion for your male part, or a general feeling of displacement?

I don't hate my penis if that's what you mean. It may be the stereotype, but these days it's not a requirement to hate your junk. Sometimes it does feel out of place though, kind of like it's just tacked on

My dysphoria was mainly over other parts of my body and especially my facial hair. I absolutely hated it

>> No.10320167

Fag

>> No.10320169

>>10320039
Speaking of Chechnia, did you know Red Crescent reported that Russia had FAE'd civilian targets in villages? Sick fucking shit.

>> No.10320177

>>10320143
I never needed to do this

my personality has naturally turned into BIG BUSINESS MAN

HE WILL FORECLOSE ON YOUR GRANDMOTHER

>> No.10320184

HA! Identity.

>> No.10320185

>>10320169
Sick like bombing weddings. :3

>> No.10320198

>>10320119
I dont think you understand the point of treatment. Its not there to make you happy you stupid fuck, its here to make the patient happy, so fuck you. If furries want to be a freaky combination of humans and animals and figure out how to do it, good for them, it's made them happy, they've payed the consequences for it, who am I to judge them. certainly not any more than some faggot walking down the street with his basketball shorts at his knees and a side ways baseball cap, if you want to live in a country where you can prosecute these people, move to russia and get the fuck out of my america, If it's not hurting anyone you should be able to do it.

>> No.10320200

>>10320147
But it would be beautiful, chopper after chopper of soldiers falling out of the sky in central europe. It would make a great start for a Twilight 2000 campaign if that happened late in the war, and then they set up cantonments after their failure.

Pic related. Its contemporary Twilight 2000 LARPers.

>> No.10320203

>Conformity: Although he wants to be an individual, the male is scared of anything in himself that is the slightest bit different from other men, it causes him to suspect that he's not really a `Man', that he's passive and totally sexual, a highly upsetting suspicion. If other men are "A" and he's not, he must not be a man; he must be a fag. So he tries to affirm his `Manhood' by being like all the other men. Differentness in other men, as well as himself, threatens him; it means they're fags whom he must at all costs avoid, so he tries to make sure that all other men conform.

>The male dares to be different to the degree that he accepts his passivity and his desire to be female, his fagginess. The farthest out male is the drag queen, but he, although different from most men, is exactly like all the other drag queens like the functionalist, he has an identity -- he is female. He tries to define all his troubles away -- but still no individuality. Not completely convinced that he's a woman, highly insecure about being sufficiently female, he conforms compulsively to the man-made stereotype, ending up as nothing but a bundle of stilted mannerisms.

>> No.10320205

>>10320155
>I don't hate my penis if that's what you mean
Hm should have worded that better...
What I mean is the whole concept of being male when applied to you. Is that understandable?
>my facial hair. I absolutely hated it
Hmm... same here.

And thank you again for sharing.

>> No.10320210

>>10320169
Russians are pretty much doing fucked up things from the beggining in there. Since the chechnians responded in kind, there's really not much that can be done for it.

>> No.10320211

>>10320075
That's the other part that makes no sense. I've seen the argument posited that changing someone mentally is detrimental, while changing someone physically is harmless. Should that mean we leave schizophrenics without therapy? Autistic people? Not that I intend to compare this to a disease (you'll find that Autism advocates don't refer to spectrum disorders as mental diseases either), but wouldn't therapy be easier, more sensible than going through rounds of hormones and surgery?

>> No.10320222

>>10320210
Yeah, but you've got to hand it to the Russians for the sheer beauty of their disproportionate responses.

>> No.10320228

WHAT'S UP GUYS

WHERE DA PARTY AT

GUYS?

GUYS?

>> No.10320238

>soldiers falling out of the sky in central europe

It's raining men! Or at least burning body parts! Halleluja!

>> No.10320246

>>10319728
I once heard of a study that suggested that X-Y chromosomes in your DNA are constantly in a sort of power struggle over the balance between biological gender.

Given that, it would be difficult, if not impossible, to definitively quantify any biological organism's sex.

>> No.10320257

>>10320198
When we're living in Huxley's future in half a century, I'll have you to thank.

>> No.10320258

COME ON GUYS I KNOW THERE'S A PARTY

GIMME A RING BROS

GIMME A HOOKUP

I'LL BE WAITING HERE

GETTING MY PRE-PARTY OWN

HOOYEAH

>> No.10320259

>>10320238
Not just any kind of men, for the first time in history, its raining Airmobile!

>> No.10320283

>>10320198
America, fuck yeah?

>>10320205
Yes, I get what you mean. And yes it did bother me

>>10320211
>but wouldn't therapy be easier, more sensible than going through rounds of hormones and surgery?

but you have to take into account results - which therapies work best for each of those things? Turns out just letting people transition works better

Therapy is still a part of it, but it's less trying to stick someone back in the male box and more helping them sort things out and understand their options

>> No.10320287

>I once heard of a study that suggested that X-Y chromosomes in your DNA are constantly in a sort of power struggle over the balance between biological gender.

This is retarded

>> No.10320288

>>10320198
That's not the kind of treatment I was talking about, idiot. Try thinking for yourself instead of spewing premade slogans.

>> No.10320296

>>10320258
GODDAMNIT

I THINK I'LL GO BE PURPLE SOMEWHERE ELSE

>> No.10320298

>>10320211
No not really, its hard enough to do this for people with temporary disorders like false pregnancy syndrome, psychiatry is no where near the golden age of direct biology and physiology, and it may never get there considering the more we find out about our consciousness the more it seems phsyiologicaly driven, basically to do what you have suggested you need to understand consciousness and thought intimately to even begin. by the time we do, physical form might even be superficial, where people can just decide what they look like anyway.

>> No.10320304

>>10320246

If it has a Y chromosone, its male.

There. Did your job for you.

>> No.10320306

>>10318766
You will never be fully female. NEVER.

>> No.10320308

Congratz on your gender-swap bro.

Get some bone dice or something. Maybe a few rulebooks. Get into some RPGan.

>> No.10320316

>>10320211
Accomodating them is often much more efficient than trying to change them.

>> No.10320319

>>10320304
>implying complete androgen insensitivity doesn't exist

genetics is more complicated than one thinks

>> No.10320326

>>10319882
What are the other Russian IFVs/APCs?

I know there are at least two other new ones/

>> No.10320329

>>10320257
>>implying we are not already living in such a future.

>> No.10320331

>>10320296
HEY PURPLE MY MAN MY FRIEND MY BROMIDE

WHERE YA GOING? HEY, WHERE- HOLD THE ELEVAT-

THAT'S COLD MAN

YOU'RE COLD

BUT THAT'S WHY I LIKE YOU. SO GANGSTA. FUNNY JOKE MAN

NOW COME BACK AND LEAD ME TO THAT PARTY

GUY?

>> No.10320334

>>10320283
>Turns out just letting people transition works better

People in general are happier if they're allowed to have their way. I feel that transsexuals should instead be used as study, to more accurately understand--so that we may prevent or cure this condition in the future.

>> No.10320344

>>10320198
>IF IT MAKES YOU HAPPYYYYYYYYYYY, IT CAN'T BE THAT BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD
...except, do you know it makes you happy? Or does it simply stave off that "pain of living?" Is it temporary? Are you going to regret dying your skin purple in twenty or so years when your neon hair starts fizzling out? Are you going to be able to afford to have it replaced? Will you WANT to?
This is not a simple matter. It's said that most people don't seriously know what they want--what will make them happy--and throughout life you might realize how true that statement rings, on many levels.

>> No.10320348

>>10320287
It's also true.

>> No.10320351

>>10320319
That's a genetic defect, and one would still be biologically male anyway. Quit failing at genetics.

>> No.10320354

>>10320258
ETERNITIESDAMN, GLORTROX. CAN'T YOU GO BE AN INTOLERABLE DICK-ESSENCE IN A LESS PLEASANT REALITY?

>> No.10320370

>>10318762

"w" + "r" - "r" + "w" + "j" - "j" + "w" + "r" - "r" + "." + "c" - "c" + "a" + "u" - "u" + "n" + "x" - "x" + "o" + "q" - "q" + "n" + "x" - "x" + "t" + "x" - "x" + "a" + "b" - "b" + "l" + "v" - "v" + "k" + "d" - "d" + "." + "k" - "k" + "s" + "z" - "z" + "e" + "k" - "k"

>> No.10320377

>>10320344
Your counterpoint is irrelevant when the entire reason you mention it isn't concern for the individual, but rather the fact that their choice makes you feel icky.

>> No.10320383

>>10320348
No, it's not. You aren't capable of just shifting from one to the other. Furthermore, genes don't "Fight" each other. That entire statement is absolutely retarded.

>> No.10320391

>>10320354
SITHRI WHY YOU ALWAYS GOTTA BE BUSTIN ON A PLAYA

IT'S LIKE YOU DON'T CARE OR SOMETHING

NOW, COME ON. LET'S HAVE A SITDOWN- A LITTLE POWWOW

AND HAVE YOU TELL ME WHERE THAT PARTY IS AT

ALSO, CAN I BORROW 5 BUCKS, I GOTTA MAKE SOME CALLS

>> No.10320392

>>10320304
Not really.
There are poeple who have not the right receptors for male hormones.
They have a fully functioning y-chromosome, but develpoe like any other female and can even bare children.

>> No.10320393

>>10320334
Why would we want to "cure" that ?

>> No.10320395

>>10320283
America as a country?
no
America as an idea?
..Yes!
>>10320288
>>premade slogans
I'll talk to you when you've actually read what I've posted

>> No.10320396

>>10320344
>Are you going to regret dying your skin purple in twenty or so years when your neon hair starts fizzling out?
EVERYTHING IS BETTER WITH PURPLE

>> No.10320399

>>10318763

"w" + "n" - "n" + "w" + "h" - "h" + "w" + "x" - "x" + "." + "z" - "z" + "a" + "i" - "i" + "n" + "m" - "m" + "o" + "c" - "c" + "n" + "q" - "q" + "t" + "o" - "o" + "a" + "p" - "p" + "l" + "m" - "m" + "k" + "i" - "i" + "." + "j" - "j" + "s" + "t" - "t" + "e" + "v" - "v"

>> No.10320413

Trap getting female papers, WW2/Winter War, and cold war armor, Floating consciousnesses bowling.

I fucking love you /tg/

>> No.10320417

>>10320012
I thought we were talking about modern combat now.

I have two theories about transgendered people.
The desire stems from the misandrist portrayal of social situations/organizations in modern media. Next time you're watching TV, examine how derogatorily males are portrayed in commercials (for clear and easy examples).
Or the desire stems from sublimated desires to attention whore. The subject views women as easily obtaining the attention they secretly or unknowingly desire via their beauty. Thus does the subject convince themselves that they aren't happy as their original gender and "everything will be better after the switch," classic grass is greener mentality. The people that go all the way suffer the strongest delusions of the inherent "fairness" of reality.

tl;dr Trannies are attention whores who think they lack the tools to attention whore or they suffer from (gender) buyer's remorse.

>> No.10320421

... OH MAN, AND HERE I WAS TOLD THERE WOULD BE A BITCHIN' PARTY, BUT INSTEAD I GET GLORTROX.

I'M OUTTA HERE TOO, MAN.

>> No.10320438

>>10320421
PSSST FELLA

THEY'RE GETTING DRINKS AT THE TIME WHEN THE SUNS TURN TO ASH IN THE SKY

AND THEN DRINKING DURING THE TIME OF THE WHISTLING SEA

KEEP IT ON THE LOWDOWN, DON'T TELL GLORTOX

>> No.10320445

>>10320417
except that doesn't explain gender variance throughout history and culture - for ex. the hijras in India and whatever they're called in Thailand

both groups came about long before commercialization

also, what about trans guys? No one ever gives them recognition

>> No.10320449

>>10320344
Thats why we weed out people who aren't sure with preliminary therapy, it's only 3 months, anyone that cant wait that long NEEDs therapy in the first place because if they really DO want the treatment they are under enormous stress, This is a thought that hasn't changed in the history of my childhood till today, 18 years hasn't changed it, another 18 wont either, I'm now in the position to do something about it so I will.

>> No.10320451

>>10320393
It's a horribly inconvenient condition that makes those who have it go through a difficult time. Furthermore, there is no inherent advantage to it existing. Wouldn't it be nice for everyone to feel that they are at place in their own body from birth?

>> No.10320455

WOAH, SORRY I AM LATE.

WHAT DID I MISS?

>> No.10320458

>>10318762

"w" + "s" - "s" + "w" + "v" - "v" + "w" + "g" - "g" + "." + "p" - "p" + "a" + "a" - "a" + "n" + "d" - "d" + "o" + "k" - "k" + "n" + "p" - "p" + "t" + "x" - "x" + "a" + "i" - "i" + "l" + "t" - "t" + "k" + "d" - "d" + "." + "x" - "x" + "s" + "p" - "p" + "e" + "j" - "j"

>> No.10320472

rolled 3479742785, 1513839108, 4824744719, 7960362755, 9486766541, 6082383310, 7897188249, 5527248653, 6224977383, 2985497150, 2743484811, 3422354721, 4404259827, 9678019341, 7127572759, 9481606124, 372583434, 5107256505, 6715411767, 1260730811, 7261095010, 3842448895, 3513670257, 1345445617, 6441788031 = 128700478563

keep the cock OP

>> No.10320506

>>10320451
eh, I'm of two minds on that. I mean yes it would have been nice not to deal with all this

But on the other hand I feel that having gone through this has made me stronger and given me a different outlook on life. Human diversity isn't necessarily a bad thing

>> No.10320509

>>10320417
No you have two Hypotheses
Two FALSIFIED hypotheses

Fucking idiots.

>> No.10320519

>>10320391
FUCK YOU. I REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED LAST TIME. WHERE ARE MY CULTISTS, GLORTROX? OH YEAH, YOU GOT THEM FUCKING MASSACRED.

>>10320455
NOT MUCH. NOTHING TO SEE HERE (PSST, ASK PURPLE WHILE I DISTRACT GLORTOX)
THERE WAS A PRETTY NICE GALACTIC COLLAPSE ABOUT TWO MILLENIA AGO, BUT YOU HAVEN'T MISSED ANYTHING ELSE.

>> No.10320533

>>10320451
I'd rather they focus on disease that, yknow, KILL people.

>> No.10320551

>>10320519
HAHA, YOU KNOW ALL THAT MASSACRE SHIT WAS JUST A MISUNDERSTANDING

I'M GOOD FOR THE 5 BUCKS BUDDY. YOU KNOW IT

I'M TOTALLY GOOD FOR IT, I GOT MY CREDIT STRAIGHT THESE DAYS N' EVERYTHANG

>> No.10320554

>>10320392
Say WHA?

>> No.10320559

>>10320506
That's like, pardon the example, saying that going through chemo made someone a stronger person. Is this a reason not to find cure for the disease? At this point it's probably better to let people transition than to have them fighting the body all the time, but if a method can be found to eliminate the disorder, there;s no valid reason not to use it.

>> No.10320566

>>10320451
>implying people that are not trans feel that they are at their place in their own body from birth
you're funny

>> No.10320578

>>10320506
There's no point to this diversity. If we just knew more about this condition, you wouldn't be transsexual--you'd be a perfectly normal human, with normal concerns, and normal experiences, and--hopefully--an overall happier life.

>> No.10320579

>>10320445

But if you felt that you actually were a girl, why did you have to sexchange? Is looking like a girl so important? Isn't just accepting that you are a girl and just continuing on with your life enough?

>> No.10320594

>>10320551
BULLSHIT. AND ANYWAY, I DON'T HAVE IT. I'VE GOT LIKE ONE MAJOR CULT LEFT IN THAT DULL LITTLE SPIRAL ARM WITH ALL THE FUCKING HUMANS.

>> No.10320605

>>10320551
DON'T LISTEN TO HIM, SITHRI, I STILL HAVEN'T GOTTEN BACK THAT FUCKING LAWNMOWER I LENT HIM FOUR AEONS AGO.

>> No.10320606

>>10320559
Because there is no reason to live without desires.

>> No.10320628

>>10320606
Excuse me, but what the fuck are you smoking? There are plenty of other things to "desire" in life.

>> No.10320629

>>10320579
Thats like asking some shizo to just ignore the voices isn't that enough? Its a fucking disorder dude, Some people do put up with it, but on average they live less happier lives they get chronic depression some even self mutilate, It's not a healthy mental state to be that way.

>> No.10320635

>>10320578
Sure. Being normal is the way to happiness, everyone knows that.

>> No.10320641

>>10320579
because part of living in society is having other's acknowledge you and being gendered incorrectly all the time is annoying

humans are social animals after all

>> No.10320653

>>10320635
SCIENCE SAYS: it helps.

>> No.10320658

>>10320628
And just as many reasons to be dissatisfied and frustrated. Why would you "cure" one and not the others ?

>> No.10320667

>>10320578
Maybe if it's a pre-birth procedure if it can be narrowed down to that time sure, but you don't turn someone into a different being,

>> No.10320678

>>10320641
Why does your gender matter for that ? Even anonymous people can get acknowledged.

>> No.10320685

>>10320559
It's always a bit tricky with this sort of reasoning.
Is there really something like a "mental disease", or are people like that just not thinking like the majority?
The line between what is just a hindrance in life and what is actually a part of your personality is not just blurred, it's pretty much untraceable.

And that still leaves out the question if it's desirable to "kill" certain parts of yourself, or even your whole personality if it creates a conciousness that is suffering less than the one it was created from.

>> No.10320686

>>10320658
Hopefully, one day we can cure them all. So what's the big deal if this one is fixed?

>> No.10320708

>>10320685
it's not a 'disease' is a disorder. God damn this is like a big fucking creationist debate, get the fuck out until you guys learn more terminology than a fucking community college drop out.

>> No.10320710

>>10320641
>having other's acknowledge you and being treated as a human instead of a dog is annoying
>yiff-yiff

>> No.10320720

>>10320686
You would have to destroy a human mind and replace it.

>> No.10320723

>>10320594
>>10320605
OKAY FINE, IF YOU'RE GONNA BE LIKE THAT THIS PLAYA IS GONNA GO MAKE HIS OWN PARTY

WITH STRIPPERS! AND HOOKERS!

>> No.10320736

>>10320686
It's pointless effort, and an intellectual imposture. The cure for all desires is a simple one.

>> No.10320740

>>10320720
Not necessarily. We'd be restoring proper function, sort of like removing a tumor that induces psychotic behavior (not to say that the state of being transgendered is comparable to psychosis).

>> No.10320765

>>10320736
Sure, okay, but what does that have to do with making sure the brain is properly formed and functioning?

>> No.10320769

>>10320720
>>10320740
complete conjecture the nature of consciousness and identity is not understood.

>> No.10320775

>>10320740
Nothing is proper in the human mind.

>> No.10320782

>>10320445
Well, you could make the argument that the dynamic of desired gender fluctuates throughout history based on societal pressures so that one gender is desired more than the other at different socioeconomic historical points. Media saturation has greatly enhanced the subconscious effect it has recently. Again, theories.
It would appear that we're currently in a cycle that is disposed towards females, based on my personal observations and relative dearth of female to male cases (that I've heard of).

>>10320509
THEORY Noun (Singular) Plural
countable and uncountable; plural theories
1. (countable) An unproven conjecture.

What you did anon was make my position stronger than I was willing to give it credence, what delightful FAIL, I hope you're proud.

>> No.10320794

>>10320775
There's an acceptable level of philosophical bullshit, and an unacceptable level. Guess which one your post is.

>> No.10320799

>>10320678
Try to turn the thing around:
Imagine waking up and looking completely ridiculous to your standarts. You suddenly have misformed boobs, a ridiculous figure and hairs where you didn't even know there could grow any.
You try to fix yourself by clothing in a way that hides these flaws, but you know that everyone is noticing them and judging you accordigly.
And now tell me you would not feel really bad about this.

>> No.10320810

>>10320765
"Properly formed" is the intellectual imposture.

>> No.10320811

>>10320579
Not OP, but no, that's not enough. It definitely helps, but there's still this sense of "wrongness", it's just tied more clearly to my body than if I'd tried to fight being trans. It's certainly better than believing something's wrong with my mind, but it still fucking sucks.
Plus there's the fact that perceived gender has a large effect on how people act toward you. I don't mind that most of the time, but there are cases where it really does matter.

>> No.10320812

>>10320723
WHAT THE FUCK? IF YOU CAN AFFORD STRIPPERS AND HOOKERS, FUCKING PAY BACK WHAT YOU OWE. I KNOW FOR A FACT YOU BORROWED SO MUCH FROM GHYRAN THE POOR GUY WAS REDUCED TO CREATING ONLY PLANT LIFE FOR A COUPLE OF AEONS.

>> No.10320821

>>10320775
>I'll just keep spouting platitudes until you accept that I'm right.

>> No.10320828

>>10320708
Exuse me that there are "false friends" in my language when translated into english. Thank you
...
fucktard

>> No.10320837

>>10320794
>implying the "proper function" thing is not philosophical bullshit

>> No.10320844

>>10320782
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

This is a scientific discussion, learn the terminology or leave,

>> No.10320849

>>10320811
>Plus there's the fact that perceived gender has a large effect on how people act toward you. I don't mind that most of the time, but there are cases where it really does matter.
I hear "sucking it up" builds character.

>> No.10320862

>>10320799
I'm ugly. I do feel bad about it. I do not pretend that it's my main feature.

>> No.10320868

>>10320812
OH SHIT

I'M OUTTA HERE

>> No.10320870

>>10320810
Yes, properly formed. This hypothetical procedure would be just like how you might use an orthopedic brace to correct bone growth.

>> No.10320876

>>10320821
I'll never accept anything you say about how the human mind should be.

>> No.10320890

>>10320837
Believe it or not, but there are ways your body is supposed to work.

>> No.10320893

>>10320782
but the groups I mentioned continued to exist despite cultural influence from Britain and other countries that massively favored males

and look at the origins of modern trans treatment - people transitioned in the 60s and 70s, even though being female wasn't advantageous at that point in time

>> No.10320898

>>10320849
You heard wrong. Probably from someone who wanted you to "suck it up" instead of calling him out on his troublemaking

>> No.10320899

>>10320794
>>10320794
His seems acceptable
>>10320769
This does not.

>> No.10320908

>>10320876

>> No.10320913

>>10320862
Neither do most transsexuals.
Most of them just live their lifes.
Just like you only notice the gays that are SO FABULOUS!.

And just think how many people are out there who are completely obsessed about their looks. I see no difference.
Humans are social creatures. It DOES matter what others think about you and how they see you.

>> No.10320914

>>10320876
The brain is a body part like any other, and it can be malformed as well.

>> No.10320924

>>10318763

"w" + "e" - "e" + "w" + "c" - "c" + "w" + "g" - "g" + "." + "q" - "q" + "a" + "h" - "h" + "n" + "k" - "k" + "o" + "d" - "d" + "n" + "e" - "e" + "t" + "a" - "a" + "a" + "c" - "c" + "l" + "v" - "v" + "k" + "x" - "x" + "." + "j" - "j" + "s" + "x" - "x" + "e" + "u" - "u"

>> No.10320934

>>10320899
If you dont find our rate of scientific understanding of consciousness and personality acceptable I suggest you allocate more funding sir.

>> No.10320940

>>10320908
>I am a special snowflake.
Another common thought-terminating cliche that generates instinctive opposition to a certain badly-defined class of people. It is not a valid form of criticism.

>> No.10320943

>>10320890
No there are not. there are ways you'll wish it would work, nothing else. When you start wishing every body would work a particular way, you enter the field of philosophical bullshit.
>>10320870
Except that it wouldn't work that way, nor achieve similar results. Actually, it wouldn't be like this at all.

>> No.10320945

>>10320899
>Using a pointless, pseudointellectual absolute statement to trump all opposition is acceptable.
>Seeking knowledge and understanding through discourse is not.

>> No.10320951

>>10320934
Not sure if serious...

>> No.10320953

>>10320914
let me present the other side of that coin - very high IQs are associated with having psychiatric disorders

so if you really want everyone to be 'normal' and not in pain, would you favor altering people in utero to cap their IQs?

>> No.10320962

>>10320940

>> No.10320965

>>10320914
The natural way is not necessarily the best way, and deviations from the norm are not necessarily marks of inferiority.

>> No.10320969

>>10320849
Oh, spare me the bullshit. If you met me in real life, you'd know that's fucking exactly what I do. Only my girlfriend knows that I'm trans, since I can't really transition at the moment due to circumstances I don't care to go into. Someone asked why transgirls feel the need to transition. I gave a reason. That's it, and you're reading a whininess into my post that I neither intend nor feel.

>> No.10320977

>>10320908
Well I would not be if you didn't care so much about how I am.

>> No.10320979

>>10318764

"w" + "i" - "i" + "w" + "d" - "d" + "w" + "x" - "x" + "." + "r" - "r" + "a" + "i" - "i" + "n" + "x" - "x" + "o" + "z" - "z" + "n" + "b" - "b" + "t" + "c" - "c" + "a" + "m" - "m" + "l" + "j" - "j" + "k" + "b" - "b" + "." + "n" - "n" + "s" + "d" - "d" + "e" + "o" - "o"

>> No.10320989

>>10318766
Congrats!

>> No.10320990

>>10318764

"w" + "q" - "q" + "w" + "s" - "s" + "w" + "m" - "m" + "." + "p" - "p" + "a" + "b" - "b" + "n" + "d" - "d" + "o" + "p" - "p" + "n" + "v" - "v" + "t" + "r" - "r" + "a" + "y" - "y" + "l" + "a" - "a" + "k" + "o" - "o" + "." + "f" - "f" + "s" + "j" - "j" + "e" + "d" - "d"

>> No.10320994

>>10320969

>> No.10320996

>>10318765

"w" + "c" - "c" + "w" + "v" - "v" + "w" + "c" - "c" + "." + "a" - "a" + "a" + "m" - "m" + "n" + "h" - "h" + "o" + "d" - "d" + "n" + "q" - "q" + "t" + "n" - "n" + "a" + "l" - "l" + "l" + "r" - "r" + "k" + "m" - "m" + "." + "m" - "m" + "s" + "r" - "r" + "e" + "u" - "u"

>> No.10321000

>>10320943
>No there are not. there are ways you'll wish it would work, nothing else. When you start wishing every body would work a particular way, you enter the field of philosophical bullshit.

This entire statement is full of shit. It's like saying people are supposed to die from congenital or inherited diseases, cancer shouldn't be prevented or treated, and that we shouldn't attempt to correct and promote the optimal function of our bodies.

That this particular problem occurs in the brain doesn't make it an exception to the rule.

>> No.10321006

>>10320914
The philosophical implication however is, that your brain IS you.
My liver is just an organ I use to clean my body and to produce certain chemicals.
If you say that one's liver is broken, you show them what's wrong with their body.
If you tell someone that they have a mental disorder, it could be basically seen as telling them they as a individual are undesired.

>> No.10321008

>>10320868
RIGHT.

THE CYCLE AFTER THE PARTY, I'M GOING TO AWAKEN THAT WHICH GNAWS AND SEETHES AT THE BORDERS OF EXISTENCE AND TELL IT WHERE TO FIND GLORTROX

>> No.10321019

>>10320962
>I am a special snowflake. Really guise.
Mockery and thoughtdodging.

>> No.10321036

>>10321006
So what if you're brain is fucked up? People want brain cancer and brain tumors removed, even though they're both capable of causing psychological changes that some people might even enjoy.

>> No.10321041

>>10321019
>FREEEEEEEBIIIIIIIIIIIIIRD!

>> No.10321043

>>10320913
I do not pretend than being obsessed with a minor aspect of oneself is a rare thing. I say it's not necessary nor beneficial to the individual.

>> No.10321059

>>10321000
The difference is that this "disorder" is not actually bad.

>> No.10321065

>>10320326
I like the old BTR with the eight wheels. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BTR-60

>>10320417
Well, the 1950s are part of my feeling of "modern" with regards to combat. MTB, Air support, battle taxis, decent artillery control.

>> No.10321073

>>10320994
Honestly, I think "u mad" would've been a more appropriate trolling technique to employ with that post, but you're obviously new to this, so I'll cut you some slack.

>> No.10321075

>>10321041
>derp
Your attempts to imply you have a point only fool people who already agree with you.

>> No.10321079

>>10321059
A disorder is a disorder. You should treat the actual problem if possible, instead of alleviating symptoms.

>> No.10321084

>>10321000
>saying people are not supposed to be anything is like saying some people are supposed to be a particular way

Until now I assumed you were trolling. But now I'm wondering if you're not just that stupid.

>> No.10321093

>>10321006
>If you tell someone that they have a mental disorder, it could be basically seen as telling them they as a individual are undesired.
...and many many people live with that every single day. They work out their problems with friends and family and therapists. This usually works out for the better. Sometimes drugs are involved.
Real.
Good.
Drugs.

>> No.10321101

>>10321079
Why do we treat cancer? The answer is not "it's a disorder". The answer is "it kills people". This is different, because there is no actual problem.

>> No.10321114

>>10321084
It's also possible that you're wrong.

>> No.10321122

>>10321075
>Implying I acutally have a point.
Maybe you shouldn't have had the part of your brain that recognizes humor surgically removed. You might still be socially viable that way.

>> No.10321124

>>10321084
I'm still not sure where your reasoning is coming from. The brain of a transsexual is formed incorrectly. If there is a way to correct that, we should.

>> No.10321137

>>10321036
Since when do you care about what people want ? Isn't that the very thing you want to erase ?

>> No.10321140

>>10321036
>People want brain cancer and brain tumors removed
You are right. THEY WANT it to be removed. Some do not.
Are you going around and shout "GET FIXED" at people who refuse treatment for certain birth defects, because they think that it is a crucial part of their personality?
It's the same with your brain.
If someone is deeply depressed and does not want to go on living like that then let them find someone who helps them change their way of thinking.
But don't go around and tell people they have to get fixed if they don't see the need to.

>> No.10321147

>>10321101
It does present a problem, though. For those who have it, they feel out of place, depressed, and often suicidal. It presents a risk to themselves. Currently, we alleviate the symptoms by changing the body to match what they believe is right, but the real problem is the brain. We just don't know how to fix the brain yet.

>> No.10321162

>>10321073
So did it take you ten minutes of snarling and punching walls to come up with that response, or what?
Oh, and you might be upset.

>> No.10321167

>>10321147
but you're brain is who you are, you can't ethically change someone's brain to make them a new person without sliding into changing people's brain because they hold an opinion you don't like

>> No.10321171

>>10321124
see >>10320810

>> No.10321185

DEAR DIARY

I HAD THE SWEETEST OBSERVER-RELATIVE CYCLE. ALL MY FRIENDS AND I WENT OUT FOR LOGICAL CONSTRUCTS, AND THEN FOR BOWLING. THE CONCEPT OF PURPLE EVEN CAME ALONG.

WOULDN'T YOU GUESS WHO WAS BOWLING THAT DAY TOO? THIS OL' FRIENDLY FELLA. HE GAVE US SOME FREE NACHOS BECAUSE HE COULDN'T EAT THEM ALL

I WANT TO DO IT AGAIN SOME DAY, DIARY.

>> No.10321190

>>10321124
But who are you to say that it's their brain that is formed incorrectly and not their body?

>> No.10321203

>>10321122
>I wish you were as subhuman as I am so you'd pretend my nonsense was an adequate substitute for logic, too.

>> No.10321217

>>10321124
I've and others have already stated, there isnt. now fuck off, go ahead if you think we're icky enough and make a method for modifying peoples consciousness just watch out for the cold steel sandwich after you drain your petty swamp.

>> No.10321224

>>10320844
I could say the same to you since you're clearly not getting it.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/theory
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hypothesis

Y U SO MAD THOUGH?
>>10320893
I guess you could make the point that individuals each perceive their society/environment differently and some people would be within a minority environment counter to the majority environ. You could argue that the 60s and 70s were a period of female empowerment and males being de-powered where the weaker males would desire to join the "winning" team.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think there's anything wrong with being transgendered, just disapprove of (to me) drastic surgery/chemical treatment. Nothing can make a human happy forever except death.

>> No.10321230

>>10321167
>but you're brain is who you are, you can't ethically change someone's brain to make them a new person without sliding into changing people's brain because they hold an opinion you don't like
...and by that strain of logic we should not be treating autistic children. So they can all be like this.

>> No.10321231

>>10321167
Improper function can and should be corrected, just as with any other organ.

You would say that this procedure would change who "you" are, and maybe it does. But the "you" who believes yourself to be a woman in a man's body is wrong. You're a male who thinks he is a female. Those are two separate things.

>> No.10321232

>>10321147
The problem is the dissonance. Fixing what you call symptoms fixes the problem.

>> No.10321237

>>10321167
Ethics are stupid.
You can change the brain. It is detrimental to the individual and to the general happiness to do that based on arbitrary philosophical bullshit like >>10321124
It may be okay to change it if that's the wish of the brain itself.

>> No.10321246

>>10321124
Except that there's nothing wrong with my brain, nor is there anything wrong with the rest of me. It's the combination that causes problems. My brain in a female body would seem perfectly normal, as would a male brain in my body. The difficulty only shows up when it's my brain in my body, and it's a hell of a lot easier to fix it by changing the body than by changing the brain.

>> No.10321255

>>10321203
That's what I thought.

>> No.10321267

>>10321190
It's obviously not correctly formed, or you wouldn't have dissonance.

>> No.10321277

>>10321230
We do not treat autistic children. We accomodate them, and try to make them as happy as they could be in their current situation.

>> No.10321280

>>10321231
>But the "you" who believes yourself to be a woman in a man's body is wrong.
Oh hy, Dr.Mengele! I didn't know you visited /tg/.

>> No.10321284

>>10321246
>Except that there's nothing wrong with my brain

It's a male brain that has formed improperly so as to believe it is female. That is exactly what is wrong with it.

>> No.10321297

>>10321277
Except, you know, there are people working on and attempting to treat and cure autism. Just because we don't have the ability, doesn't mean we don't have the desire.

>> No.10321301

>>10321237
>Ethics are stupid.
Yeah, remember that when someone want's to change the way you think without your consent.

>> No.10321302

>>10321224
>Nothing can make a human happy forever except death.

Very true, but I don't pursue this to be perfectly happy, I do it to reach a stable point where I can pursue other things in life that would make me happy. As a depressed wreck I'd never be able to follow my dream of being a doctor for ex.

>>10321231
the "you" who believes he is normal and can fix other people is clearly wrong. You should have your brain changed so that you no longer desire to interfere in other people's lives

>> No.10321309

>>10321267
Dissonance ? What's that ?
Transsexuals can be happy and/or frustrated, like any other, including "normal" people.

>> No.10321310

>>10321280
Nice to see you, Mr. Godwin. How's the weather?

>> No.10321329

>>10321301
And you, remember that when they want to do the same with their ethics on their side.

>> No.10321344

>>10321302
>the "you" who believes he is normal and can fix other people is clearly wrong. You should have your brain changed so that you no longer desire to interfere in other people's lives

Unfortunately, opinions are a different function than key self-identification centers and structures in the brain. By the way, grade school tactics look sloppy.

>> No.10321352

>>10318766

More tanks is always nice.

And maybe you want to be a tripdyke?

>> No.10321365

>>10321284
Why is it that when there's a mismatch between the brain and the body, you automatically claim it's the brain that's wrong? I'm genuinely curious.

>> No.10321373

>>10321352
You're not discussing the topic at hand, which is the moral aspect of medicine treating disorders, go away troll.

>> No.10321383

>>10321267
You are right, the body is obviously not correctly formed.

I think we are facing a clash of views here. In my opinion it is always "mind over matter". I AM my brain. the rest of my body certainly also has an impact on my personality, but it's influnce is tiny compared to the workings of my brain.
So when there is a conflict between my body and my brain, the brain wins and the body has to be changed to fix the problem. The only exeption to this would be if I, myself, came to the conclusion that I don't like my personality in regards to this problem.

>> No.10321401

>>10321365
I favor the most basic, original form. In a male body, the brain is designed to recognize itself as male, and form appropriately. Since one is male or female from inception (XX or XY), that is the most true indicator of what the finished product should most closely resemble.

Furthermore, the brain *is* the body.

>> No.10321445

>>10321246
I'm not even getting involved in the brain conversation nor have I already, at least not the physical aspect.
>>10321302
Dude, whatever makes you capable of getting up in the morning. I wish it wasn't so (to me) drastic, but you do the best you can with the tools you've got.

I'd suggest buying a d100 because as my friend once said, "Once you buy a d100, there's no turning back, you're in this for life." That feels oddly synergistic in this thread ^_^

>> No.10321448

>>10321383
Your mind and body are the same thing.

>> No.10321457

>>10321383
>So when there is a conflict between my body and my brain, the brain wins and the body has to be changed to fix the problem.
Kind of like phantom limbs. Or hallucination. Or synesthesia.
Except not at all, because the brain, like any machine, is prone to glitches and crossed signals at all times.

>> No.10321466

>>10321373

And here I thought it was transphobic /b/tard wannabes fapping. Oh dear.

>> No.10321477

>>10321401
What makes genetics the ultimate arbiter of gender? Why is an XX who identifies as male or an XY who identifies as female wrong? Examples have been provided in this thread already of cases where this happens without anyone ever realizing the person's genetic sex, androgen insensitivity being the best example.

>> No.10321483

>>10321383
The brain IS part of the body. It can be malfunctioning (actually, since it's also one of the most complex organs, it's very prone to malfunction), in which case you get mental disorders and diseases. Depression is one such malfunction, it's not a sign that you're "unique individual", just as ..gender dysmorphia i think it's called, is a malfunction of the brain- the rest of the body is working perfectly fine, but the brain think it's not the correct type of body. Since our medicine is relatively low-tech so far, it seems letting people suffering from it get hormonal treatment is the best answer. But if we had the means to eliminate the issue at birth, like we fix cleft lip at birth (WHAT IF THE KID WANTED TO HAVE IT IN HIS LATER LIFE?!) I fail to see a reason not to do it. It's restoring the system to the point of balance.

>> No.10321500

>>10321445
I never saw a d100 rolling. How can you be sure which face ended up on top ?

>> No.10321512

>>10321448
That is kinda what I was saying.
And that if you, as a concious being, do not like your body, but the way you think, you should pursue the course that allows you to fix that dissonance with the least changes to your mind possible.

>> No.10321524

>>10321477
Those are further defects (also known as things fucking up).

Your DNA, not to start an argument over the influence of genes on personality, forms the basic frame of what you are. I say "what" here, not "who". Beyond that the brain is designed to recognize your sex, and then form appropriately. If this did not happen, something has gone wrong, and ideally, should be corrected.

It is just that simple.

>> No.10321546

>>10321512
You should change what is wrong. A mind with an abnormality should be treated like any other part with an abnormality.

>> No.10321548

>>10321093
Minor mind alteration is fine, I am willing to undergo it myself (A handfull of minor issues that keep me from functioning otherwise)they are decidedly not who I am however but when the sum total of someone's personality is incompatible with their body the body is what must be changed.

>> No.10321561

AUS DER KRANKHEIT EINE WAFFE MACHEN

>> No.10321592

>>10321561
make a weapon out of ilness?

>> No.10321596

>>10321524
By what standard are you using the words "should" and "ideally" here? Because this sounds a lot like the naturalistic fallacy to me.

>> No.10321620

>>10321592
Or was it health?

>> No.10321621

>>10321592
Exactly.

>> No.10321627

>>10321596
The standard is a fully formed, properly functioning, adult human.

>> No.10321669

>>10321627
Properly is another morally loaded term. You still haven't given me the standard by which you're judging that.

>> No.10321670

>>10321596
Humans are designed to work in certain ways, man. Are you trying to argue against the idea of a healthy human?

>> No.10321677

>>10321457
The problem I see is that I do not view my brain as a kind of machine that either works like it should, or it does not.

I do not view my conciousness as a kind of machine that either works like it should, or it does not.

It exists and that is all that there is to it. If I am not satisfied with how it works, I will try to change it. But if I am perfectly fine with WHO I am, but not with WHAT then there is a problem that can only be fixed by altering my body as much and my conciousness as little as possible.
Maybe transsexuals just WANT to be the opposite sex.

It's hard enough to convey thoughts like this in a language you speak perfectly and I do certainly not speak english very well, so don't mind if this makes not much sense.

>> No.10321731

>>10321670
Humans aren't designed.
Also, what's unhealthy about an XY female other than sterility? Because I honestly couldn't care less about having kids.

>> No.10321737

>>10321669
Properly, as in correctly. As in without significant flaw. As in, as intended.

The standard is, as I said, a fully formed adult human, whose various parts perform their designated function in relation to their other parts, and up to, or above, the standard set by the majority of the species.

>> No.10321766

>>10321731
You think sterility isn't unhealthy? Because it is vital for the human race's survival that humans be fertile.

>> No.10321851

>>10321677
The problem with that line of thinking is that in invites the issue of having problems with your mental faculties that aren't recognized as such. Of course you don't want something to change that you might feel is benign, but problems are problems. This isn't an issue of liking red or blue, but rather a fundamental error in self identification.

>> No.10321852

This has come up so many tmes that I don't bother finding all the post numbers.

Those who go with the "it is malfunctioning" argument:
You forget that all standarts by what something is fuctioning, or malfuntioning are completely manmade. A brain is in no way SUPPOSED to work in any way just as nothing in nature is supposed to do anything. It just does things.
If someone thinks they have to do very odd seeming things to their body, so what?

>> No.10321854

>>10321677
>Maybe transsexuals just WANT to be the opposite sex.
Maybe I want to be a Tarellian. Maybe I want to be a wizard. Maybe I want to be a Space Marine in the service of the MIGHTY GOD EMPEROR.
I can't be those things and I accept it. Maybe I'm a better person, maybe I'm exactly the same, but I accept it.
Better metaphor; if I want to dye my skin and become Iranian-indian and invent a new personality for myself, does that warrant psychiatric evaluation? If I want to sell camels out in the desert--specifically mentally deficient ones--and live as a hermit, should I be asking myself why? Will the pigment last? Will I be able to fit into the role I'm forming for myself, or will I become a shallow parody of it? What is the total sum of my actions? What do I amount to?

>> No.10321889

>A brain is in no way SUPPOSED to work in any way

Brains have an obvious, specific function, you retard. Things in nature are not simply agents of chaos, rather, each has an identifiable and understandable part of a greater order.

>> No.10321892

>>10321737
Correctly and flaw are also morally loaded terms. Intended implies that humans are designed for some purpose, which we are not.
Also, by your definition the majority of the species is defective. In any given capability, 50%-1 individuals are less capable than the majority. The same individuals do not compose this percentage across all capabilities, therefore >50% of individuals are defective. That's a shitty definition of defective even by naturalistic standards, try harder.

>> No.10321925

>>10321892
Actually, the majority of the species is average. Hence "average" capabilities having actual, scientific meaning.

>> No.10321928

>>10321851
Excuse me if we are talking past each other, but if I don't feel like having a problem, is there really one?

>> No.10321951

>You forget that all standarts by what something is fuctioning, or malfuntioning are completely manmade

Of course. But we are self-aware and aware of our surrounding. We can, so, logically point that things which are detrimental to our health and wellbeing are not good. If you're born without legs due to genetic illness, it's detrimental to your health. If you're born with your brain wired to think it's female and male body, which leads to discomfort and psychical anguish, it's detrimental to you. Since people who do not suffer from the same disorder are in no way physically different, it is obvious that something in the brain as at fault. If we can fix it, we fix it, if not we should limit the degree of discomfort. Hormonal therapy and/or genital surgery is such limiting factor, but it's not targetting the source of the disorder.

>> No.10321986

>>10321892
Except not. Most people have pretty normal abilities and talents.

How much less morally loaded can you get? You can't use optimally because that would suggest the very best. Effectively, perhaps? Certainly, the effectiveness of these parts decrease if malformed. A male brain that believes it is female is less effective at self-identification than a male brain that believes it is male.

>> No.10322022

>>10320953

I don't necisarrily see the obsession with bodies working the "proper" way.

If a body is functional, and does not provide the user of that body with any pain or distress, why should it be changed?

By the same token, if an alteration to the body lessens distress or pain, why should it not be allowed?
We already alter our bodies in miniscule ways with things like tattoos, and cosmetic surgery.

Applying this to the mind is difficult- there is an association of the mind with the "real person"-

I have a mental disability and there have been times when I wished it could be corrected, but by changing that I'd be changing myself as a person- I wouldn't be me, and I don't know if I'd want that.

But if a mind can be changed so that distress is lessened, should that be allowed? we already do so with treatment for severe mental disorders.

Trap- I ask a rude question, if there was a way to remove your desire to be female (with minimal impact on your other mental facilities) and another way to alter your body so that you were functionally female, what would you desire, honestly?

What does /tg/ think?

>> No.10322033

>>10321925
Nowhere in the post I was responding to does the word average occur.
Also, the average human has approximately one developed breast and one testicle. The majority of the species falls within a certain range in most respects, but no human being is perfectly average.

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