/sci/ - Science & Math

>>3752140
except if because of thermal irradiation coming from the biggest nuclear reactor of the solar system the water evaporate and get carried on a higher location than its starting point.

The disequilibrium created can be used to power water turbine in a dam.

Before someone inevitably post about "Berserker strategy"
> (self replicating swarm of relativist missile and theoretically the most efficient way to kill as fast as possible)

Let's just point out that doing the distinction between human / Alien will potentially become impossible as technology evolve, making the Berserker a double-edged sword with an arm susceptible to become spiked and poisonous, killing everybody.

> but a scientific necessity?
The only necessity of science is to understand the universe, nothing else.
Meaning that if we met Extraterrestrial advanced life-form we may better try to do science together in a synergistic way.

Because what's the best :
- Waste exponentially any resources you'll ever find just to get rid of somebody else because you believe it irrationally to be the only solution ?
- Or use those resources to understand the universe and maybe, reach a point where biological difference in our early age mean NOTHING because by then we will all have uploaded our mind on another state of existence ?

>>3679052
Technological Singularity : A hypothetic period in the future where technology will improve so fast (because of precedent discovery) that we won't be able to know what happen anymore.

A common example would be the creation of a AI smarter than human which could potentially improve itself at an exponential speed.

>>3678947
Technology improve, but it doesn't mean we have to use less resource for it.

Our consumption in Electric power keep increasing because we find new way to use it everyday while working less and less to maintain it.

To give a basic example : When fossil fuel will either run out or become too costly for use in automobile, we may replace it by Electric Car and the demand will skyrocket.

Also : Rational utilization of resource is incompatible with liberal Capitalism.

The Singularity already happened.

People forgot to say that as well as being impossible to predict in the future, it's also impossible to trace in the past.

I'm writing this message through a wide interconnected web of cable, using a computer so complex that even the wisest men can't understand it in its entirety.

If I want to travel I can fly in plane using technology not even though before (Pretty much anything electronic would be magic in the past)

To communicate we can use Satellite (before the transistor was created the closest thing would be a inhabited space station with people doing the connection manually)

And at least, I can distract myself in 3 dimensional Virtual world. Today we take as granted than those are pretty limited, straight-forward and all...
In the future we will still ask yourself when the Singularity will happen while drinking exotic cocktail in a virtual world we accessed from a space station. (And this pict will become real)

Everything is fiction until it get realized.

Personal Computer was science fiction and only author the less grounded in reality approached what we have now.
Picture extraordinarily related

I've read somewhere a very interesting text about how the Technological Singularity already happened and is still continuing.

Only geek will even realize when fiction become reality because "we" are the only one who care about the place of technology in the history of manking.

Since that thread went back on the subject, I sage this post.

>>2469389
You still don't address the inherent problem to information control : how to keep Alien from hacking it.

And again : How do you keep them from killing you in a stupid accident, sabotage from the human that hate you next door, genocide from those Space Nazi that consider you as impure than Alien (if you aren't accused of being Half-Alien). But in case you would accept that as natural selection : if the people of a planet think other will turn against them with the same paranoia you have, they'll just turn the Berserker against other.

You don't realize you are pursuing mutually exclusive goal : Perfect Kill as fast as possible, and Perfect Control.
You are also trying to have the list of potential enemy as inclusive as possible while keeping it's definition the further away from us.

The best weapon can't be stopped once launched -> the best weapon only target enemy -> The less you are different from something the weapon won't attack (another berserker) the better it is.

Result : The only way to achieve all this is to turn yourself into a Berserker.

>>2469416
You clearly didn't studied history.

BTW : I'm not even playing "Peace and Love with the Alien", I am really just saying this is a stupid extermination method.

>>2353173
.... And I forgot to say : no twisting stress on the center of the structure if there isn't thruster all the way to the center of gravity.

The problem become worse if you have to do aerobraking / aircapture.
Though, that's something a Valkyrie design can't do, but that you can't do on any planet anyway.

>>2353173
Actually that may be easier, no vibration, no need to compensate for the natural instability of pushing engine.

>>2353246
Doing actual shit on the planet and asteroid inside the system is better than putting insane effort for 10year of acceleration only interrupted by a turnover maneuver.

>>2353319
The point of this design is to save mass while protecting cargo from radiation, even at the interplanetary scale.

Also, I can count a few other practical use for it on an airless planet, most of them being "awesome air...void-drop operation"

>>2163522
If controlling the star where the RKM go suffice to destroy them, any Alien doing the same before you do already won.
Then again not to play your stupid game, MAD do not disappear since -because of the necessity of your own survival- you can't assure that you are only aiming for the most efficient way to kill anybody without becoming a Berserker.

You still try to avoid answering to the fact that you cannot define "humanity" as a single entity, neither keep other humans from betrayal.
And the fact you contradict yourself assuming faulty "Berserker" wont be a problem against human.

> Aliens could not hack human probes even if they were unable to defend themselves
Again, another subjective assumption only based on a irrational belief/will from yourself that Alien cannot possibly bring anything positive.

Unless you are telling me they do not use the same rules of physics to program things, this is stupid.

>>2163219
Only work if human manage to still be recognized as "human" and if Alien don't put the hand on that "Friendly signal".
Making a restriction to the number of probe also limit it's efficiency, since that extermination need maximized elimination the logical solution is to transform yourself into a Berserker and abandon free will.

> Well yes, no one is saying we will be able to travel ftl by flying through Hell like they do in 40k. They are just using 40k xenophobic catchphrases as a joke.
It seems like this berserker plan, itself named after the Berserker series of fairly soft scifi novels, does not use any technology we don't already have other than self replicating machines.

I know, this is just that this guy (because it's probably the same) was mocking anything "soft-SF", even though his own "berserker plan" only work under assumption he don't understand himself.

> And any single faction of humanity will be kept in check by the fact that, unlike today, every star system will be crawling with beings just as vicious and armed with similar technology

Except for Even more xenophobe trans-human Nazi who will volunteer to be the first one to build "Berserker relativist goo"... and send them at you.
Remember that as long as you don't prove that there is a fundamental distinction that force human into being "human" (whatever you definite is to be) everybody except YOU is the enemy.

And you would imply that MAD still work.

(...continued)
>>2163240
You contradict yourself.
Berserker must spread faster than they can be destroyed to outnumber and preemptively kill threat.
Yet they have to to be incapable of taking a definite advantage over themselves.

> we could always monitor their code for errrors, and eradicate them.

Weren't they supposed to be impossible to hack ?

If you admit that you cannot be sure to kill all Alien in a way they'll NEVER EVER search vengeance, why bother attacking them at all ? It will be MAD as today.
Then we will cooperate because nothing is better than cooperation.

If you are the same anon, you just ruined your argument.

Two question you never cleared are "How much resource I'll use for my probes ?" and "How to keep them from attacking me ?".
- By your logic, the more you send the better it is, yet you need resource for your own "business", And you won't turn yourself into a mind-less Berserker.
- Then ... remember that comic here : >>2158155 ?

The god-like Petey was an ancient warship-IA (aka Berserker) made for the exact purpose of purifying the galaxy that decided to protect "freedom of choice" once somebody freed him from basically anyone.
He is now engaging the race that made him into a campaign of reeducation.

What you also don't understand is that we only "evolved" in term of technology and mentality because different personality cooperated with each others.

Also for such a big mouth like you, 40k is very-soft SF. Way more than the pictured webcomic "Shlock Mercenary".

WHY IS THIS MORON STILL AT IT ?

Again, why we WON'T do that stupid berserker plan.
1) Human are threat to other human, including you. Once colony are affar from Earth they may not believe like you that "human" must stay as they are and change their appearance becoming Alien.
2) You have yet to discover the nature of "intelligence" or "consciousness" to be able to actually differentiate the Alien from "you" (because all human do not share your opinion).
3) As a whole, you'll also have yet to find a way to be sure no other human is lying to you because you became more annoying than useful. If everything is robotized and can work without you your death become win-win.
And if you try to make so no other human than you can control your berserker, they'll qualify you as a threat more immediate than Alien.
4) Atomic Rocket's "Ape and Angel" isn't about how fast a civilization can grow, but how long they had since the beginning of the universe to do it.
One -because you won't be seen as the undisputed ruler of the human race- may meet alien that can't be destroyed using any mean we knew but could reverse everything.
By the way RKM are shit against dysonsphere since those are to spread to care for RKM mosquito hit. RKM destroy fragile ecosystem but are shit against widely distributed installation.
5) at the end you WILL even end up killing yourself, either because you lost control of the first generation of Berserker. Or because you declared war to other human who wanted to kill you.

>>2158690
I am really looking forward Gandalf-shaped FTL drives since we still can't predict what's inside a black hole. One great Unified Field Theory and it's the way to go.

Pictured : Lofstrom loop
The real key to space once we get around engineering problem like : not being working on it.

>>2158784
Since the haterade follow the same logic than most fascist in /new/ I'm still doing useful information on a less delicate subject.
At least we don't know yet if aliens want to kill us, that's better than what we learned of some human.

(...continued)

> I'm ok with killing all aliens off from our galaxy to ensure human continuity
Except that you aren't, you are killing needlessly on false assumption. This is no hippie thinking, I showed through logic that you aren't using the most efficient way of gathering information to actually know what to do.

> just google some of thee theories, we would have NOTHING in common with aliens, [....] are just the base differences
You are not even supposing they "think" or have anything like your own "consciousness" ? If you can even define what it is to be alive.
Basic logic say that if it happened once it can happen again.
And since we have yet to understand what "consciousness is" we can't tell for granted that it isn't a fundamental part of intelligence however it may have been attained.
How do you even prove that people around you are as conscious as you are ? They could be replica giving you the illusion that they are like you ?

In the end you are just a fascist (that's more exact) trying to justify it's lack of rationality.
And you should really learn about the Anthropic principle.

ITT : Samefag trying to make it like he have many supporter.

You are the one using fallacy, I just took into account that you may not fight something you can't win against. Also when I said I would be protecting intelligence, I have no reason to kept "as they are" alien that may tend toward elimination like you. If I arrive 10000 before they even invent writing I'll be able to extend my knowledge while making them into allies.

You aim for destruction, I aim for understanding, since you'll need understanding anyway I'm just not wasting time.
I'm proposing a win-win situation that follow the basic of receiving information and analyzing it.

> Soul? Whats that? Oh wait, an outdated religious/philosphical concept
I assure you I'm agnostic. I just wondered if you (that anon) was/were religious since you seem to think only humans have "though" and will stay eternally with the same appearance.
Also, we may have been created by alien. You thinking they couldn't/wouldn't do that, don't change the possibility that they did.

(to be continued ...)

>>2158243
Soft SF ? Hohoho, you should see me explain why there is no space-fighter in space. Obviously the Comic wasn't hard-SF, but the point was. Once you've killed everybody included yourself through racist war or an error of your own probe they will be no freedom of choice, because I doubt you are going to give AI something like a consciousness if you even bother researching that.

> And as for transhumans and machines
Yet transhuman are likely to see YOU as less than an animal. As stimuli go in the creation of the personality, being uploaded in a machine and listening to alien emission will put some xenos in you. Because you WILL keep information to know "the enemies", you WILL learn to think like him.

> There would be no thoughts like our thoughts in their heads, no feelings like our feelings in there hearts. Alien minds are alien
Until you do some research and realize that

What you don't understand is that discriminating will LOGICALLY get you as far as killing anybody who aren't you. (first human (btw : kill all animal), then human that aren't "Xenophile", then human that are more like you than other)
And then you
You'll discovers later that you are being made of the same particle of the same universe than alien, will you try to search your soul ? What if you realize Aliens soul are made of the same thing than you ?

> only survival matters.
Actually since we acquired "intelligence" we searched to understand our world in order to do that.
Wasting energy to keep people from working on that too is less efficient than working together on it.

>>2157575
Well, first reason : It will keep our self-replicating RKM from being used against us (as well by other RACIST human like you who consider anybody not him as xenos).
=> Question implied : how will you strictly define "humanity" in case of trans-humanism so that probes resulting of 100 replication don't take us like alien if we dared change our appearance ?
Second reason : As logic ask, we only fire if we are attacked. If we somehow arrive first probability say that they won't be 1000 around their first spaceship, so we may as well study them
=> 2nd Corollary : how would that protect us from others RKM swarm anyway ? You want limit here >>2157830 to prevent gray goo, imagine if somebody even more stupid than you don't put any : he'd win.
Third reason : who know what sort Clarke's rules powered magic alien may use if they see us exterminating Intelligence.
=> They may not even be physical being, they could be energy being capable of sending back our probe at us and our own probe
4th reason : predator could starve if they killed all their pray, now imagine that when we need to answer "the last question" (how to reverse entropy) we wasted resource to kill, at the death of the universe we won't have found a way to hack our way outside nor realized there was a multi-verse
5th reason : When the fuck will "shoot, ask question later" resolved any problem ?

Last point, we may go trans-human one day and live on another plane of existence where all "life" and "consciousness" merge as one entity ( hive mind )
Seeing an Alien hive mind, why not just merge with it to acquire new knowledge

Pict fucking related.