What's the most efficient way to study?

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Anonymous Wed Sep 6 06:40:47 2017 No.9152271 [Reply] [Original]

What's the most efficient way to study?

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 06:41:53 2017 No.9152273 >>9152271 >Read Chapter >Do problems >Read Chapter/section when issues arise >Repeat until done.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 07:02:14 2017 No.9152287 >>9152271 cocaine

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 07:42:06 2017 No.9152317 bump for interest

Anonymous Wed Sep 6 07:53:46 2017 No.9152326
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>>9152271

Literally retrieval practice. Read this guy's papers (Jeffrey Karpicke - they're free on his website) and you'll see that it's better than any other method. I suggest starting with his 2008 Science paper, pic related

http://learninglab.psych.purdue.edu/publications/

also here's an interesting lecture that you might enjoy, by his PhD supervisor (who also does research in memory and learning) Henry L Roediger, who is the co-author of pic related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqae85jbfbE

Don't want to affirm the consequent, but from anecdotal experience, after reading all their papers, I went from below-average (GPA wise) to 3rd in my year

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 09:00:11 2017 No.9152385 >>9152326 >1 hour lecture >saves in the watch latter playlist never looks at it again Can you summarise the concept ?

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 09:14:16 2017 No.9152393 >>9152326 >>9152385 this, summary please

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 09:17:12 2017 No.9152395 >>9152271 Open a book and read.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 09:18:04 2017 No.9152396 >>9152271 by avoiding study

Anonymous Wed Sep 6 09:18:53 2017 No.9152397

>>9152385
>>9152393

Jesus Christ. Just read the 2008 paper at least

>read a page of your notes/book/lecture
>close eyes, literally try to remember as much as you can of what you read by pulling it from the depths of your memory
>repeat for next page until gone through everything

Do this every other day for like, a week leading up to your exam and you get 99% easy

Also in the papers on his lab's website you can see they've done studies on how well knowledge transfers (basically, how much you actually understand instead of just memorising when you use retrieval practice) and it's again, the best method out of all other methods tested (Shit like just re-reading notes and stuff)

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 09:25:44 2017 No.9152400 >>9152271 Why are meme spamming unfunny teenagers obsessed with this guy? Do they show his videos in school or something now?

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 09:52:53 2017 No.9152428 Paying attention in class and not studying later

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 09:53:55 2017 No.9152429 >>9152326 >purdue doing something interesting NIce

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 10:22:11 2017 No.9152450 File: 76 KB, 1150x565, study_methodology.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 10:23:39 2017 No.9152453 File: 99 KB, 1162x852, study_technique2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 10:24:43 2017 No.9152456 File: 411 KB, 885x1869, Tips for Success in Undergraduate Math Courses.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 10:24:58 2017 No.9152457 >>9152271 >no 9/10/2001 date on video

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 10:30:21 2017 No.9152466 File: 173 KB, 913x1485, How_Study_Math.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Wed Sep 6 12:00:18 2017 No.9152578

>>9152397
Hey there, and yeah. That's a pretty effective way of doing it for a very small percentage of the population. If you can do that as well then I would be pretty impressed. It's still good if you can't, just keep working at it if that's the case.

Anonymous Wed Sep 6 12:09:01 2017 No.9152592

My method: 1) Get a general overview: What are the problems in this field? How are we trying to solve them? After this episode, I will be usually able to put~95% of the relevant words into the correct context. 2) Get the hands dirty with practicing. This makes things click on another level and makes flaws in understanding obvious. 3) Close the gaps: Is there any word that I can't define? Any proof that I don't get/can't do? This is also the stage where I learn together with others and reach out for explanations if needed.

Oh, I have also some science out of my ass to support the method: a) The more things you can associate with a new fact, the longer it will stick around in your brain. Hence step 1). b) We are all quite fond of commiting confirmation bias - in this case, overlooking gaps in our knowledge and only engaging material that we are kinda familiar with. Doing all the exercises helps with that. Also talking to others.

Anonymous Wed Sep 6 12:35:26 2017 No.9152625

>>9152578

What do you mean a small percentage of the population? All of the studies that Karpicke's lab has done (as well as Roediger's) consistently show that retrieval practice is 1.5x to 2x more effective than the next best thing (just re-reading notes). Effectiveness is defined as % of information correctly remembered on a test a week, month, or longer time period since the last time the participant sat down to study (so it's study-dependent)

Also, this effectiveness compounds, so it's more like (1.5)^n to 2^n more effective, with n = amount of times you sit down to do retrieval practice.

Anonymous Wed Sep 6 13:12:38 2017 No.9152684

>>9152625
Maybe retrieval practice is good when you're being tested on memorization. I doubt it would help much on something problem-oriented, like math, physics, computer programming, or anything like that. So if you want a good general study method, retrieval practice necessarily needs to be combined with some regime that includes problemsolving.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 13:14:55 2017 No.9152691 File: 193 KB, 795x1200, 1503955526247.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9152271 TIMER AND BREAKS MAKE YOUR SCHEDULE ON KANBANFLOW.COM THIS SHIT WORKS

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 13:29:39 2017 No.9152714 >>9152400 He's done some videos with YouTube "meme lords"

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 13:31:03 2017 No.9152718 >>9152397 I can't see this working for any subject that requires practical exercises like math, physics or chemistry.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 13:45:11 2017 No.9152731 >>9152400 >Being this repulsed by anything even barely mainstream Get over yourself. The guys videos are well made and he's easy to make fun of

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 14:06:06 2017 No.9152754 >>9152718 No, you can never memorize problem solving and heuristics. However, this is a good way to learn the toolkits of those fields by heart, like say some linear algebra methods or what have you.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 14:45:52 2017 No.9152824 >>9152397 I've literally done this since 1st grade. Don't all people study like this?

Anonymous Wed Sep 6 15:04:50 2017 No.9152844
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>>9152271
Really enjoy the topic, and have fun with it.
Learning is remembering. Fun moments are easy to remember.
There is not more to it.
Just really love the topic you study.
Don't try to study something you don't like. Don't go for the money, go for the experience

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 15:13:33 2017 No.9152859 >>9152844 Ah, so this is what a product of the 2000s looks like. You disgracefully pathetic shrimp

Anonymous Wed Sep 6 15:37:59 2017 No.9152910

>>9152684
>>9152718
Doing problems when you learn math/physics/whatever is a given, but retrieval practice can be useful if you're in the early stages of learning something new, like when you read about a subject for the first time in a book. Obviously you would do the retrieval differently, like you would go through a proof in your head or write it down on a piece of paper, instead of recalling dates, events, etc. What makes it works is the timing and actively going over things in your head, and not the specific way you go over the things in your head.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 15:43:35 2017 No.9152930 >>9152691 She's a bit too muscular in the arms.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 15:46:29 2017 No.9152937 >>9152844 just b urself lmao

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 15:50:55 2017 No.9152952 >>9152859 we should really put it out of its misery

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 16:19:04 2017 No.9153005 >>9152271 Being passionate about what you study.

Anonymous Wed Sep 6 16:23:41 2017 No.9153015

I thought that if you have a piece of paper and you divide 1/4th of it horizontally that you can write quotations and formulas on the larger side and write references to other material on the smaller side. You can also create your own strategy about what content goes on each side of the paper.

If you use repetition that also works with studying. You just keep reviewing material until it stays in your mind. Any application like Memrise that uses intelligent flash cards will work.

If you can create a positive feedback loop by studying with a timer that may help. Basically you set a timer and study without pressuring yourself. You just make the effort to study, no matter the pace or your progress, until the timer rings. After an hour or a half-hour of studying take a break and reward yourself tea or maybe a bit of coffee. Brewing something helps your mind to calm down and if whatever you are drinking is sweet it helps to strengthen your mental connection to studying as being pleasurable.

Environment is everything as well. If you are stuck somewhere that is distracting or has bad Feng Shui then expect that to hamper your learning. Find a library, coffee shop or a little spot at your friends house to study that suits you.

If you can get a cheap laptop then slap Linux on it and use it only for the purpose of studying. Only have stuff on it that is conducive to what you are studying. If you must put a desktop background that says "Are you still working?" or something else snarky to keep yourself focused.

Anonymous Wed Sep 6 16:43:14 2017 No.9153049

>>9152844
Your post is poisonous.

>Don't try to study something you don't like
So you shouldn't "have fun with it"?

>Don't go for the money
Money isn't bad.

You should learn to develop an interest in what you are studying, you should learn to enjoy doing difficult things that no one else can and which businesses will trip over each other to hire you to do.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 16:44:38 2017 No.9153051 >>9152271 In crazed, caffeine induced delirium after 3 days without sleep an hour before the final exam.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 17:50:04 2017 No.9153162 >>9152326 Thanks anon, I'll check it out.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 18:27:51 2017 No.9153204 >>9152271 >Go to lecture >Discuss that lecture with classmates >Read book if lecture is not helpful >Take test >Change tactics if failed

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 23:59:19 2017 No.9153709 >>9152397 How do you apply this to subjects like math and computer science that are based on problem-solving?

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 7 00:03:39 2017 No.9153720 By studying instead of asking 4chan how to into learning.

Anonymous Thu Sep 7 01:21:39 2017 No.9153831
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(>>9153709)
I keep imagining a site or game that teaches math incrementally. The player would have to add equalities to their mathematical inventory by deriving things like standard derivatives. In later stages the player would only be allowed to make substitutions with equalities previously derived.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 7 01:39:15 2017 No.9153865 How do you recommend taking notes?

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 7 07:37:30 2017 No.9154117 >>9153865 Cornel method and mindmap are ways of tricking yourself into actually thinking about the material

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 7 08:10:36 2017 No.9154144 >>9152326 Great post thanks a lot anon.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 7 08:58:06 2017 No.9154178 >>9152271 Noopept and actually doing something.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 7 09:00:02 2017 No.9154182 >>9153709 Practice problems without referring to anything while you're doing to the problem.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 7 15:33:49 2017 No.9154721 What's better for taking notes and writing small summaries of what you study, a laptop or handwriting?

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 7 16:39:34 2017 No.9154797 >>9152273 Do you do every problem in the book? Is this inefficient? If not, how do you choose which problems to do?

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 7 16:53:39 2017 No.9154817 Mayuri a shit

Anonymous Thu Sep 7 16:55:29 2017 No.9154822

>>9154721
Probably laptop, since your notes will be searchable, possibly easier to read, and it will help you get better at latex.
Some dumb dumb who hasn't actually read that study will probably come along and say that handwriting is scientifically proven to be better, but don't listen to them.

>>	<3 !KuriSUuOwg Thu Sep 7 16:58:58 2017 No.9154824 >>9153051 This works for me™

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 7 16:59:07 2017 No.9154825 File: 28 KB, 640x475, 1485312051290.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9152930 come now anon that's an excellent mix of swole and soft

Anonymous Thu Sep 7 17:46:24 2017 No.9154885

Personally, reading and doing problems works best for me. I can't keep up in lecture if I am note-taking (unless its like several words to look up later, or something minor). I do the reading before class, make sure I can follow along the entire way in class, then do as many problems as possible.

Anonymous Thu Sep 7 18:20:37 2017 No.9154938
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Is it possible to make money from Sportsbetting using Elo Ratings from FiveThirtyEight?

To me, it seems unlikely, because the Elo Ratings would not only have to be better predictors of sporting events than the Sportsbook, but they would also have to overcome the 4-5% advantage that the house gives itself.

In addition, sportsbooks have to put their money on the line with their predictions, whereas 538 or any other site offering predictions doesn't lose any money when their projections are marginally out.

Despite my pessimism, I would like to know if anybody on this board has consistently beaten the house using this or any other statistical method, particularly with the NFL season starting.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 7 18:26:40 2017 No.9154945 >>9154938 oops meant to post this as a new thread.

>>	Miniature Spacecraft Thu Sep 7 19:55:24 2017 No.9155040 File: 160 KB, 625x515, arthurcclarke.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9152273 And rewrite chapters.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 8 08:19:35 2017 No.9155880 >>9152326 Is Retrieval learning == Active recall?

Anonymous Fri Sep 8 09:24:35 2017 No.9155981
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Stand in front of a mirror and pretend you're lecturing on the topic.

>>9155040
To build up on this, some other anon on sci suggested actually "writing" the textbook, without looking at the original(s), over several days/weeks.

Anonymous Fri Sep 8 11:52:05 2017 No.9156137
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>>9155880

Yes. Attempting to consciously retrieve memories is retrieval (also known as active recall).

"Retrieval practice" is simply repeating retrieval (or active recall) a bunch of times until you can remember pretty much everything you've been studying. This is how you get the delicious 99% on exams

>>9152824

Funnily enough that's how I used to study, got into a good uni after acing my SATs but because of the whole "lul i didnt have study skilsl in high school" my GPA tanked in 1st year, so I was like "let's see what the science says about the most effective studying methods and here we are

>>9152718
>>9153709

So, retrieval practice works on what is called semantic memory, which is (basically) the memory of facts. If you have trouble remembering things like derivations, formulae, empirical facts from the natural sciences, then this will help.

For things like the application of intelligence to solve novel problems, you want to work on your procedural memory (which is basically "cognitive skill"). Here's a paper on how math ability might be related to procedural memory - but note that this area is not yet as deeply researched as retrieval practice.

http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fpsyg.2016.01318/full

Anonymous Fri Sep 8 11:53:08 2017 No.9156139

>>9156137

(continued)

One other thing (this doesn't come from empirical studies, so take it with a grain of salt): A good friend of mine, who went to the international math olympiads in high school (and got silvers all the time) told me the Chinese kids had an excellent way of prepping for the olympiads.

Any time they would get stuck on a math problem, unable to fix it, and they would be told the answer (or the solution to that particular step) later, they would take a small break and ask themselves "Where should I have figured that out from?" and then written down the explanation. And then they would basically go over the explanation and think about it for the next two or three days, once or twice a day. Basically, just burning into their memory what they should have thought of to solve that step they couldn't manage to solve then.

And he said they told him it worked pretty well. It would make sense from a crystallised intelligence/procedural memory point of view - you're developing your math skill by constantly reminding yourself where you got stuck and what you should've thought of when you got stuck - so if that happens in the future, you're really likely to remember what you need to do.

Anonymous Fri Sep 8 12:28:48 2017 No.9156192

>>9152271
The best way to study is to somehow be the guy in every course you take that people turn to for help cause you seem to understand certain things slightly faster which will force you to keep thinking of intuitive ways to explain the course material to these brainlets. The pressure of people asking you to explain some things will make you desperate to actually understand the course as if you were a teacher of it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 8 12:45:34 2017 No.9156214 >>9152271 total silence

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 8 12:58:02 2017 No.9156226 >>9152326 I can confirm this works quite well.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 8 12:59:57 2017 No.9156227 >>9154797 All the problems you, idiot. And then some to make sure you really get it

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 8 13:07:29 2017 No.9156235 File: 55 KB, 540x540, b_1_q_0_p_0 (2).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] /fit/fag here >Studying >Not lifting You're fucked /sci/guy.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 8 13:40:25 2017 No.9156270 >>9156137 Thanks a lot! Where do you find all this informations on this subject?

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 8 23:51:33 2017 No.9157263 bump

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 9 00:04:48 2017 No.9157280 >>9156235 ??? don't hate on /sci/ its probably the only board with the largest portion of /fit/ members go on /fa/ if you're gonna be a degenerate :dd

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 9 00:21:42 2017 No.9157305 >>9153204 I can't do this because all of my classmates are brainlets.

Anonymous Sat Sep 9 00:25:45 2017 No.9157311

>>9153865
Honestly I use my notebook as pseudo-scratch paper where I write down my thoughts and explore ideas. It's an extension of the mind while I'm thinking. I trust that if I ever look back at it I'll be reminded of all the various things I've learned. It's really freeing to not have to worry about keeping my notes clean and organized, though I understand it's not for everyone.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 9 00:33:27 2017 No.9157327 >>9156227 Ok what about books that include problems that are basically research problems? Seems unrealistic, bro.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 9 00:34:35 2017 No.9157331 >>9157280 Nah that'd be /lit/. /fitlit/ will never die.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 9 08:08:45 2017 No.9157797 >>9152930 low test detected

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 9 10:57:59 2017 No.9158035 >>9152844 what the fuck kind of magic school bus world do you live in?!

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 9 11:04:22 2017 No.9158045 >>9152271 Not being a brainlet.

Anonymous Sat Sep 9 11:05:29 2017 No.9158049

>>9152326
>Learning is often considered complete when a student can produce the correct answer to a question.

The fact that they based their research on this supposition is questionable. It's easy to memorize and parrot out words you don't understand. The trick is understanding what you're parroting out.

Anonymous Sat Sep 9 12:11:39 2017 No.9158157

>>9156270

just do a bunch of research using your unis database, or stuff like Google Scholar

the authors of the papers you read (+ the referenced papers in those papers) have their own memory research, just keep going down the rabbit hole

I want to go into neuroscience for my PhD and I've been doing this literature research on the side for about a year, so I already have a shitton of papers downloaded and read

Anonymous Sat Sep 9 12:13:27 2017 No.9158158

>>9158049

But understanding is simply logical connections between propositions ("truth-claims" about the world). And to understand something, you must be able to explain its mechanism, how it works - and for this, you must have semantic memory (i.e. knowledge) of the mechanism.

So just write out an explanation (i.e. how you understand some concept) on a piece of paper and retrieval practice that. Voila

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 9 12:35:59 2017 No.9158200 Does anyone have the post of the guy mentioning the pomodoro method?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 9 16:31:36 2017 No.9158601 >>9152287 Or the safer version...adderall

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 9 16:37:33 2017 No.9158614 >>9158200 that was probably me. i've talked about it a dozen times on /sci/ but i sort of don't want to bother talking about it all again.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 9 16:56:24 2017 No.9158651 >>9158614 Don't worry, we don't care about your pseudoscience, either.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 9 16:57:55 2017 No.9158654 watch a youtube video regarding the subject

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 9 17:01:52 2017 No.9158664 >>9158654 You have to be 18 or older to post.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 9 17:08:21 2017 No.9158680 >>9158651 tfw

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 10 13:05:11 2017 No.9160101 File: 99 KB, 1366x768, EMP.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9152271 just do it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 10 13:34:24 2017 No.9160147 Do all these memes methods work? I usually just go through some book, do exercises and review concepts. Maybe make some table with shit I need tl memorize.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 10 14:02:07 2017 No.9160218 >>9160147 If your method is making you straight A's and feels efficient then just keep doing that. Otherwise there's nothing wrong with trying out different methods to see what works for you.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 10 14:03:44 2017 No.9160222 >>9152271 Read the theory, then do the simpler exercises. Once you've worked through the entire chapter, skim over the theory once again, and try the harder exercises.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 10 14:22:59 2017 No.9160261 >>9152844 is this bait?

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 10 19:21:48 2017 No.9160870 >>9154822 Except that is true. The problem with taking notes by computer is that you can type very fast and don't acknowledge the info. By handwriting, you literally force yourself painstainkingly to engage with the info.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 10 19:25:56 2017 No.9160881 How do I take notes? Just copy from a textbook? Or diagrams and shiiet?

Anonymous Mon Sep 11 07:13:39 2017 No.9161913

>>9160870
That's not true when you're writing small summaries or taking notes from a textbook, because you are writing summaries to begin with, which engages your brain, and probably not true when you take notes of a math-related video lecture, because your typing speed is more limited in that case, as you have to type out math formulas, which also engages your brain btw. Besides, the study only looked at the most immediate effects (they took the notes and studied them once or twice over a one week period), which isn't really significant in the context of actual studying, when you study your notes that grow longer multiple times, and where their searchability and portability may prove more useful.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 11 07:26:18 2017 No.9161926 >>9152271 pray

Anonymous Mon Sep 11 07:35:29 2017 No.9161935

>>9161913

But that's the thing. Taking notes from a textbook can just be touch typing and copying a whole paragraph without real immersion. I can and have done that. With music in the background. I learn nothing because it is just me copy and pasting and then feeling good that I did some work. And I can touch type +100 with my eyes closed. If you can't do that, then it's not the same for you. But for people like me who can, note taking by computer is nothing more than masturbation - feels great doing it but no real value at the end.

And I'm sure there has been more than 1 study shown on this. Which one you citing?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 11 07:39:45 2017 No.9161940 >>9161935 Cont... https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-learning-secret-don-t-take-notes-with-a-laptop/

Anonymous Mon Sep 11 07:54:37 2017 No.9161950

>>9161935
That's mostly on you though, because at one point you should have realized that copying entire paragraphs isn't the way to go, and you have realized it, since you're posting this. Most paragraphs that can be copied without paying much attention are usually drawn-out explanations anyway, which should obviously be reworded for smaller size, and to include your own observations and explanations that are more useful to you. Or you can just omit those altogether, and instead leave some clues for recalling, such as what you want to prove, and use the book as a reference when you get stuck when you go over them. The only things worth copying are definitions and theorems (but not their proofs), and they are worth copying verbatim regardless of whether you use a pen or a laptop, because they are usually as short as they can get, and because modifying them may introduce logical errors.
I'm talking about the same "the pen is mightier than the keyboard" study btw https://sites.udel.edu/victorp/files/2010/11/Psychological-Science-2014-Mueller-0956797614524581-1u0h0yu.pdf..

Anonymous Mon Sep 11 08:21:40 2017 No.9161967

Can someone please explain isomorphisms in graphs to me

I understand you can represent the same graph visually in multiple ways, pic related.

Am I correct in saying this is the same graph in my upload?

As far as i understand then an isomorphic graph to the one depicted is the same as depicted except the vertices aren't connected by the same edges. Is this understanding sound?

Is that to say to consider two graphs isomorphic, for every vertex in a graph there must be a corresponding vertex with the same degree in the second graph, even if labelled differently?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 11 08:23:01 2017 No.9161968 >>9161967 I thought this was SQT where I belong

Anonymous Mon Sep 11 09:50:00 2017 No.9162041

>>9161950

Got it. I'll have a look over it, bit busy now. But I'm just wary of people falling into the trap that I did. It genuinely makes people feel as if they are learning when in reality, it's nothijg but mental masturbation. I get what you mean, if you typer slower and copy your own notes, it may not have the effect that happened to me.

1 interesting study showed using a horrible font, such as comic sans, increased memorization of text because your brain had to work x2 as hard to read it.

http://www.businessinsider.com/economist-tim-harford-ugly-font-comic-sans-handouts-study-attention-stand-out-2017-3

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 11 11:21:43 2017 No.9162124 >>9162041 >>9161950 Then I should take notes on laptop but try to not copy a single paragraph?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 11 11:27:16 2017 No.9162133 >>9162124 Yeah, but you don't have to use a laptop if you're more comfortable using pen and paper.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 11 11:44:22 2017 No.9162150 >>9161926 eat pray love

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 11 15:38:57 2017 No.9162452 >>9152844 10/10

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 11 19:25:02 2017 No.9162801 >>9152326 Is retrieval practice = spaced retrieval or is that different?

Anonymous Mon Sep 11 19:31:17 2017 No.9162808

>>9162801

Retrieval practice is what you do in each session of spaced retrieval. Spaced retrieval itself is the concept of performing retrieval practice on the same content for several days, each day having a pause of one or two days before and after it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 11 19:44:07 2017 No.9162821 >>9158157 Mate can you give us all the papers and shit about memory, studying, retrieval and useful psychology shit? I have no idea how to search for this stuff.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 11 19:45:39 2017 No.9162823 >>9152326 So you telling me that if I read all those papers (back from 2005!!!) And that YouTube video I will be a memory God?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 11 20:11:48 2017 No.9162874 >>9152691 TY! this serves me a lot!

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 12 00:11:19 2017 No.9163234 >>9162808 Is this essentially the same concept as what you would do in a spaced repetition flashcard program, or are there some differences? Haven't read any of those papers yet.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 12 00:20:52 2017 No.9163250 >>9152844 I really think you are right. I can't study something i dislike. If i really like the subject i will remember the notion perfectly with no efforts.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 12 01:46:35 2017 No.9163380 >>9152271 lose your friends. prioritize your goals. people have been telling you this your whole fucking life and you didn't listen.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 12 07:58:14 2017 No.9163751 >>9163380 lol The blue pilled are the larger majority

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 12 08:10:43 2017 No.9163762 >>9163380 >Lose your friends Unironically this. Or, rather, get better friends. People who are actually respectable. Drop your retarded party buddies who don't belong in school. Become an adult.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 12 08:33:03 2017 No.9163775 >>9160147 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaced_repetition It absolutely works. Try out Anki. protips >getting something wrong is beneficial to learning >guessing, even if you have absolutely no idea will help you learn more

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 12 08:34:21 2017 No.9163778 >>9152287 /thread/

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 12 08:38:29 2017 No.9163785 >>9163775 But there's like a billion different methods that are proposed here. Space Retention, Retrieval Practice, Anki, Take notes, don't take notes, make diagrams etc..... How do you pick one?

Anonymous Tue Sep 12 08:49:25 2017 No.9163803

>>9163785

Try whatever works. IME anki is extremely easy to set up and do. You can go through a couple hundred cards in less than 10 minutes.

Anki is notes + spaced repetition and literally anything where you try to remember a fact (not just re-read it) is retrieval practice.

Anonymous Tue Sep 12 08:51:35 2017 No.9163807

>>9163785
>>9163803

It has been a while since a I read up on it exactly.

Retrieval practice helps you actually recall a memory once it has been stored (which is happens without much effort).

Think about all the times where you went 'Oh i knew that, I just couldn't recall it'

Anonymous Tue Sep 12 08:53:23 2017 No.9163809

>>9163807

For example, you probably couldn't tell me the titles of the all the books you've ever read, But if I asked you if you have read book x, you will probably be able to tell me if you have or not.

The MEMORY is already there, the retrieval strength is not.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 12 09:15:48 2017 No.9163838 >>9163803 Wait, isn't spaced repetition = spaced retrieval? That's what Wikipedia says.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 12 09:19:21 2017 No.9163842 >>9163838 yes

Anonymous Tue Sep 12 09:36:12 2017 No.9163870

>>9163234
Seems like the same concept, but one of the studies and the talk mentions that using dropout conditions (not re-testing things you already got right) may be detrimental. When you use something like anki and click on easy, you will still be re-tested, just at a later time, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Anonymous Tue Sep 12 09:54:36 2017 No.9163885

>>9163785
Retrieval practice is a way of studying where you actively try to recall and explain concepts, while spaced repetition is about spacing out your study sessions for increased efficiency (if you want to learn 200 words for example, you'll remember more of them a month from now if you study them for an hour every day for a week than if you studied them for 7 hours straight for one day). They aren't two opposing concepts, they complement each other. Flash card programs rely on both spaced repetition and retrieval practice, they usually have an algorithm for spaced repetition that determines when you should be tested next on a given piece of information based on how well you already know it.
Not taking notes is not an option when you attend real life lectures or watch video lectures (unless you have crazy good memory or there are some pretty good notes available online), and at least writing down key pieces of information when studying from a book is also useful. The idea of retrieval practice can be applied to your notes too, so that your study session don't consist of you passively going over your notes again and again, and instead you only use them when you have trouble recalling something.
Drawing diagrams can be pretty useful, but you shouldn't force yourself to draw diagrams of everything.

Anonymous Tue Sep 12 10:08:46 2017 No.9163896

>>9152271
You should first get yourself interested in the subject before you think about the "system" to study it.
If you're actually interested then you'll naturally find ways to learn better.

Never do it the other way around.

No study system will ever make you more efficient if you're not interested in what you're learning.

Anonymous Tue Sep 12 10:14:22 2017 No.9163904

>>9163896
Except sometimes you are forced to study things that you aren't that interested in as part of the curriculum, and some people are lazy shits who aren't interested in anything that involves effort, if we go by that definition of being interested in something.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 12 11:05:46 2017 No.9163953 >>9152271 >watch youtube videos >memorize them >watch more youtube vids >keep memorizing >come on to sci and say you are a smart and just repeat what you saw in the videos

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 12 12:26:21 2017 No.9164041 >>9156227 >mathematicians and their time. Holy fuck, how many lectures do you do per semester? 2? I swear to god.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 12 12:52:10 2017 No.9164063 >>9157327 >>9164041 >t. Brainlets I think history might be more your style.

Anonymous Tue Sep 12 16:57:17 2017 No.9164373
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>>9162821

All the papers you need are on the lab website linked in this post >>9152326

(the papers are free - download the fucking PDFs)

>>9162823

Yes

>>9163234

Yes, essentially. You will have higher retention if you practice the same amount of retrieval on all information, instead of "dropping out" things which you learned. Basically, just study all flash cards at the same frequency - don't decrease the frequency for individual flash cards which you know.

Also, do what I did and forget flash cards - reasoning from first principles, for retrieval practice you only need the cognitive process of retrieval. Making flash cards takes forever, and depending on how much course material you have to study, might be excessively tedious. All you need is the notes you have already - read a page, cover it or turn it over, close your eyes (so you're not distracted) and consciously attempt to remember what you just read.

(1/3)

Anonymous Tue Sep 12 16:58:33 2017 No.9164378

>>9164373 continued

Regarding
>>9163785

If you read the papers from the link I posted, you will see retrieval practice is the most effective method.

From first principles, I've divided learning into four different processes.

Understanding -> Taking notes (optional) -> Memorising -> Application

Understanding a concept and writing it in your memory are separate cognitive processes which overlap slightly. A day after a lecture, you may remember around 5% or so of the material - even if you understood everything the professor was saying. This is the important bit: if you fully understand something, do NOT assume you also fully remember it.

The next step after understanding something (e.g. by writing down notes exploring the concept, looking up videos, reading a textbook, asking a professor during office hours etc.) is to memorise it. Again, this is a separate cognitive process. You do this through retrieval practice - literally reading a page or two of your notes (or printed out notes from a lecture, or a textbook, or whatever material you have...) and then trying to remember what you just read. For each page, do this about twice or thrice, until you reach the end of your notes (for that subject, for example) and then perform retrieval practice from beginning to end of that set of notes, pausing to look over the bits you can't remember (if you check Karpicke's and Roediger's research in the above link, you'll see that reminding yourself like this when your memory falters during retrieval practice improves retrieval in future sessions).

(2/3)

Anonymous Tue Sep 12 16:59:44 2017 No.9164381

>>9164378 continued

The above studying is on a Monday, for example. Do this entire thing again on the Wednesday (going through each page individually, and then all together) and again on the Friday. This kind of spreading your studying out over several days is what is called "spaced retrieval". Do it enough times (3-4 times, corresponding to the 3 days I've just mentioned + 1 extra if you don't feel confident enough) is enough to get you the highest marks. Why? You have already understood the material (all the note taking, extra reading, etc. you do before retrieval practice) AND HAVE ALSO memorised it. Again, understanding and memorising are separate processes, even though they overlap slightly. By the fourth time you've done retrieval practice on *each page* of your notes (and all of them together at the end of each session) you can basically do the academia version of reciting the Bible.

As long as you make sure you understand the material BEFORE retrieval practice, this method is not *just rote memorisation*.

It is important to note that not everybody studies like this, even though this is the most effective memorisation method. If you comb the neuroscience literature, you'll see that it is well known that the more salient a stimulus is (i.e. the more interesting it is - the more "attention-grabbingness" it has) the more likely it is that it will be encoded in memory straight away, and remain there for a long time. This is why people who are genuinely interested in a subject don't really have to sit down and study it that much, but just learn it straight away as it's presented to them. However, retrieval practice is incredibly effective for these kinds of people as well, specifically because of what it says on the tin: you are *practicing retrieval* - you are literally practicing remembering something. You know when this comes in handy? When you need to write an exam answer, you need to remember the material taught to you.

(3/3)

Anonymous Tue Sep 12 19:44:11 2017 No.9164667

>>9164381

This is a phenomenal breakdown of the whole study method. Whilst I have only watched the YouTube video, Roediger essentially states the papers from 2008 and others that he has done with Karpicke. The video is really good, I'm going to watch it again to rehash my memory.

I am going to read the papers that Karpicke published too but I have a few questions:

> Understanding -> Taking notes (optional) -> Memorising -> Application

Where did you get these 4 principles from? I mean they make sense - did you pull these out of your ass or did you get them from a paper?

I don't quite understand the method either (English is not my first language, so excuse me.) Are you trying to say that to study using the retrieval method, we have to:

1) Understand the actual content

2) Take notes. (But why is this optional, in your opinion?)

3) Here, you write:

> For each page, do this about twice or thrice, until you reach the end of your notes (for that subject, for example)

Do you mean read each page 3 times and then try to remember what you just read?

> and then perform retrieval practice from beginning to end of that set of notes, pausing to look over the bits you can't remember (if you check Karpicke's and Roediger's research in the above link, you'll see that reminding yourself like this when your memory falters during retrieval practice improves retrieval in future sessions).

I cannot understand what you meant by this. How do you perform retrieval practice from beginning to the end? So let's say that I've read each page 3 times and I've done my retrieval practice for each individual page. I've come to the end of my notes. Then, do I just sit, close my eyes and go through each page in my brain and try to retrieve my information? Is that what you mean by this?

cont...

Anonymous Tue Sep 12 19:53:48 2017 No.9164684

>>9164381
>>9164667

> The above studying is on a Monday, for example. Do this entire thing again on the Wednesday (going through each page individually, and then all together) and again on the Friday. This kind of spreading your studying out over several days is what is called "spaced retrieval".

As I've explained in the above post, I've yet to read the papers but I've watched the video and whilst Roediger does very briefly mention spaced retrieval, is this documented on the Karpicke pdfs and show a method on how to do it? I mean, where did you get the method that I just quoted you from? Is that just yours or is it documented the best method?

>By the fourth time you've done retrieval practice on *each page* of your notes (and all of them together at the end of each session) you can basically do the academia version of reciting the Bible.

So on an individual page, pick it up, read it, close eyes, *retrieve* and then pick up the same piece of paper again and repeat x4? Is that the method you are describing or am I misunderstanding you?

I'm having a little difficulty in understanding the exact method that you are writing about. My understanding is that it is like this, please correct me if I am wrong.

1) Understand the actual content.

2) Take notes.

3) Pick up 1 side of paper, read it, memorise it, turn it over and put it down. Close eyes, try to retrieve it. Pick up the same piece of paper, turn it back over and repeat the exact same thing for the exact same side. Do this 3 more times (4 times in total).

4) Do this until you get to the end of your notes. Then, put the whole thing away and try to retrieve it all from your brain. (Do I do this just once?)

Also, this is hugely interesting so thanks anon for sharing this!

Anonymous Tue Sep 12 21:29:05 2017 No.9164853
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>>9164667

>Where did you get these 4 principles from?

Education (in the words of Memelon Musk) is basically downloading data (knowledge) and algorithms (skills) into your brain. These two categories happen to align well with the two main divisions of memory in neuroscience: declarative (specifically semantic) memory, which is knowledge of facts; and non-declarative (or implicit) memory, which is the knowledge of skills.

They're not from a paper - I should have been more clear. It's my own method that I've developed, using Karpicke's research on retrieval practice (which only deals with the 3rd stage, "Memorisation").

I reasoned that, when you're learning something, you could either memorise it like you would a song (just learning the words themselves, without looking at logical connections) or you could understand it, and then memorise that - which, to me, made more sense, as it is easier to remember something you understand compared to something you don't.

I think it's actually difficult to memorise something by retrieval practice *without* understanding it - your brain would really have to be turned off while you're retrieving what a wave function is three times in a row to not actually *get* what it is - but it's certainly possible (it's happened to me), and I think you shouldn't leave yourself vulnerable to the possibility. So, the first step is to understand a concept before memorising it. It doesn't matter what it takes to understand a concept (as I said - videos, textbooks, other notes, professor helping you out...) just that you eventually get there, and can understand it.

Anonymous Tue Sep 12 21:30:20 2017 No.9164855

>>9164853 continued

After you've done that, you want to create the materials that you are going to use to practice retrieval from. You do this to maximise both how much you remember, and how long you remember it - you can think of it as maximising the integral under the curve of a "percent information remembered" versus "time" graph. This is your notes - to me, the only purpose notes serve is to be a nicely edited, summarised source of information that I need to learn for exams or other purposes. I don't want to be fragmented - if my first lecture is teaching me twelve concepts, I don't want to have to use six textbooks, three printed note handouts, my own scrabbled paper notes from when I visited two different professors to help explain stuff to me to practice retrieval on.

As long as I compile one set of master notes, where I basically explain all the material to myself (such that I understand everything I read as I'm going over them, and don't have to repeat the step of going to textbooks, videos etc. to understand the material AGAIN) then I can just practice retrieval on those notes. And guess what - since literally everything I need to know is in those master notes, and I understand everything in them, if I memorise them through retrieval practice, I don't see how it's possible to get a bad grade on an exam, unless I get brain cancer and lose my hippocampus the day before or something.

>>9164684

Your understanding is correct (so I don't have to respond to the rest of the post - sorry for not being clear in my explanation).

(2/?)

Anonymous Tue Sep 12 21:31:25 2017 No.9164857

>>9164855 continued

I would add two things:

1. Repeating 3-4x is just an example I pulled out of thin air - you should practice retrieval until you correctly remember, say, 90% of the contents of a page. If you're struggling, you don't have to do an entire page - you can do 1/2, 1/3 or even 1/4 of a page at a time. This of course depends on the information density of the page, how familiar you already are with the material, etc. If you look at Karpicke's lab's website, there is a study (by one of his postdocs, I assume) that looks to see how "unit information grain size" (or something along those lines) when practicing retrieval affects retention. Basically, is it better to do one half of page, retrieve, second half, retrieve; OR entire page at once, retrieve? And I think she found barely any difference at all, or maybe slightly better results with the half-grain size. You want to balance how long it takes to practice retrieval, how good your results are, and how boring the process is getting. So don't do 1/20th of a page, four times in a row, for the entire page, for each page - that will get tedious very quickly, your results will be the same as if you did half a page or one entire page anyway, and it will take you fucking forever to go through all of your notes.

(3/4)

Anonymous Tue Sep 12 21:33:10 2017 No.9164859

>>9164857 continued

2. For step 4), yes - try to retrieve it all just once, and after this you stop with that specific set of notes for that session. However, (and this is in one of Karpicke's lab's studies) when you get stuck trying to remember something, go back to your notes to remind yourself what it is - this helps future retention. You do steps 1 through 4 again on two or three more days, depending on how much you are able to retrieve. The more you find yourself being able to remember everything from your notes, the more confident you'll be in your memory, because it'll be better and better. This has an interesting motivational function - being able to recall everything in your notes gives you a sense of confidence, because you know you can literally remember everything (or a large majority of what) you're supposed to know.

>I mean, where did you get the method that I just quoted you from? Is that just yours or is it documented the best method?

It's in Karpicke's studies. The more test trials you have (that is, the more retrieval you do) the higher your retention after x amount of time of the material. The 2008 Science paper is a good introduction, of course.

The spaced retrieval bit is another paper of his - basically, if you could spend either 3 hours practicing retrieval the day before the exam, OR practice 1 hour every day for 3 days, what would improve retention? That's right - spaced retrieval. I forget which paper it was, so you'll have to look for it.

>Also, this is hugely interesting so thanks anon for sharing this!

My pleasure.

(4/4)

Also, I would add about the first paragraph on >>9164853 (the Elon Musk quote) - disregard it. I wanted to explain my approach to learning but then decided against it, and forgot to edit that paragraph out before posting.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 12 23:02:36 2017 No.9165003 the scientific method, dummy

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 12 23:03:57 2017 No.9165004 >>9152428 >genuis >don't study >math P.hd >any job i want >300 of anything i want starting

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 00:52:50 2017 No.9165156 Bump

Anonymous Wed Sep 13 03:14:22 2017 No.9165294

>>9164857
>So don't do 1/20th of a page, four times in a row, for the entire page, for each page - that will get tedious very quickly, your results will be the same as if you did half a page or one entire page anyway, and it will take you fucking forever to go through all of your notes.
Besides the reason you've mentioned, going through very small parts at a time may also be detrimental because you'd basically be recalling something from your short term memory without the greater context, so you wouldn't have to understand it that deeply.

Anonymous Wed Sep 13 03:20:52 2017 No.9165303

>>9152271
I would like to raise my own question. How do I actually pay attention in classes that don't interest me? Chemistry for example. My teacher is an idiot who tries to make every lesson a practical lesson instead of just fucking explaining the theory. I end up playing hashiwokakero on my phone instead of paying attention because practicals don't interest me in the slightest. Can't wait to drop chem next semester.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 03:49:15 2017 No.9165336 >>9152429 Wat¿

>>	None !niqjediPCA Wed Sep 13 13:10:01 2017 No.9165858 >>9152271 >What's the most efficient way to study? Conquer your feelings.

>>	None !niqjediPCA Wed Sep 13 14:29:15 2017 No.9165966 File: 78 KB, 236x386, threadkilla.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >inb4 mossad offworld gate activation.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 14:32:35 2017 No.9165971 >>9152326 >I went from below-average (GPA wise) to 3rd in my year Bullshit. You would have to be a genius that fucks around all year to do such a big jump...

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 14:37:12 2017 No.9165981 How do you obtain adderall without a doctors prescription?

Anonymous Wed Sep 13 16:00:36 2017 No.9166140
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Mfw never learned to learn and graduating to be an MD in a year or so. There will always be databases to look everything up, without those I'm basically useless.

Is it possible to replace the memorising in
>Understanding -> Taking notes (optional) -> Memorising -> Application
with outside data sources? Is it impossible/slow to apply knowledge without remembering it all?

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 16:05:29 2017 No.9166147 >>9152429 purdue is a good school anon

Anonymous Wed Sep 13 18:35:08 2017 No.9166524

>>9164853

Hi, I'm back again lol.

> They're not from a paper - I should have been more clear. It's my own method that I've developed, using Karpicke's research on retrieval practice (which only deals with the 3rd stage, "Memorisation").

It makes brilliant sense though. It is logical and concise. I only disagree on note taking as being optional. I have read both of Karpicke's 2006 studies and both times he mentions that desirably difficulty from Bjork is pretty important. And note taking is that - a desirable difficult that forces you to really think about the stuff you're taking your notes from and understand that shit. So IMO, note taking is pretty important. I understand your point about getting all the info into one place but note taking in itself is a good memory tool too.

> Repeating 3-4x is just an example I pulled out of thin air - you should practice retrieval until you correctly remember, say, 90% of the contents of a page. If you're struggling, you don't have to do an entire page - you can do 1/2, 1/3 or even 1/4 of a page at a time.

Having just read the 2nd 2006 study by Karpicke, he mentions that STTT>SSST when it comes to retrieving. IE: It it better to keep retesting yourself than it is to re-study the information. I was wondering though how much time you give yourself before each test? EG: In Karpicke's STTT study, he said that a student would read, solve maths problems for 2 mins, Test, solve maths problem for 2 mins, Test etc.... Is that what you would recommend? Doing a maths problem?

> However, (and this is in one of Karpicke's lab's studies) when you get stuck trying to remember something, go back to your notes to remind yourself what it is - this helps future retention.

I think this was something to do about feedback or something.

Cont....

Anonymous Wed Sep 13 18:40:28 2017 No.9166536

>>9166524

>The spaced retrieval bit is another paper of his - basically, if you could spend either 3 hours practicing retrieval the day before the exam, OR practice 1 hour every day for 3 days, what would improve retention? That's right - spaced retrieval. I forget which paper it was, so you'll have to look for it.

I haven't read it but it sounds like it could be Karpicke's 2nd 2007 study: >

> Expanding retrieval practice promotes short-term retention, but equally spaced retrieval enhances long-term retention.

It's something that Spaced Retrieval > Expanding Retrieval.

From what I have figured out from Karpicke and Roediger's stuff, retrieval and tests are very important but also how you set out your retrieval method. I think, and correct me if I am wrong, just as how literally cramming (re-reading the same info a trillion times) gives low long term retention and so retrieval method is better, systematic retrievals is better than cramming retrievals, as you mention - 1 hr every day using the retrieval method for 3 days is much better than 3 hrs of retrieval in 1 day.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 20:11:54 2017 No.9166671 File: 638 KB, 1080x584, 21373029_679976932198426_6698235814347800576_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 20:59:21 2017 No.9166741 >>9165981 just ask random people in public. retard.

Anonymous Wed Sep 13 21:06:49 2017 No.9166748
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>>9166524

>It makes brilliant sense though.

Thank you for the feedback. So far it's worked well for me - I'm currently editing all this stuff into a Word doc, to teach my siblings so their grades go up. Maybe I'll upload it somewhere, all summarised and shit, with citations.

On note-taking:

You are correct. I didn't actually respond properly - note-taking is only optional if you already understand the material and have no problem having to dig through all the textbooks and pieces of paper or what-have-you from professors explaining it to you.

Desirable difficulty is what you want - to me, it makes sense that this is the "understanding" part. If you already understand something, it's not going to be difficult.

>Is that what you would recommend? Doing a maths problem?

If you look at the study (and all studies have some intermission between reading and the test) you will see that the maths problem is to prevent the subject from thinking about the material, and increasing their retention through that process. This is how Karpicke (and other retrieval practice researchers) control for other memorisation methods. So, because the subject is distracted (doing something completely different from the information they need to practice retrieval on - in this case, a math problem) before they start retrieval, we can conclude with high confidence that any retention they experience is because of retrieval practice, and NOT of other cognitive processes which might increase memory (such as thinking about the information AFTER they've read it but BEFORE they've started practicing retrieval). So don't give yourself time before tests.

>>9166536

>as you mention - 1 hr every day using the retrieval method for 3 days is much better than 3 hrs of retrieval in 1 day.

Yes, that conclusion is the most likely out of all learning methods, based on the empirical evidence.

Therefore, it seems we have answered OP's question: >>9152271
>What's the most efficient way to study?

Anonymous Wed Sep 13 21:10:39 2017 No.9166755

>>9166140

>Is it impossible/slow to apply knowledge without remembering it all?

I think this is the chief problem. If you're a master logician who can reason deductively and inductively in your sleep, the only reason you want to have things remembered is because it's fast. You could always just look shit up, but that takes fucking forever.

>>9165971

Or perhaps retrieval practice really is the strongest method for learning, as Karpicke's, Roedgier's and a bunch of other independent researchers' (you can find who they are on Google Scholar or through citations in the above two guys' papers) data shows.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 13:39:37 2017 No.9168002 Bump cuz interesting

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 19:37:28 2017 No.9168627 What do you guys do when a problem doesnt have an answer in the back or online?

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 19:44:12 2017 No.9168642

>>9166748
>Thank you for the feedback. So far it's worked well for me - I'm currently editing all this stuff into a Word doc, to teach my siblings so their grades go up. Maybe I'll upload it somewhere, all summarised and shit, with citations.

If you do that, I'll definitely be interested so put that shit on /sci/. I don't often go on 4chan though so I'll have to keep an extra lookout for it. Or alternatively, you can e-mail me. I might make a spoof e-mail account for you to do that, if you prefer...

>f you look at the study (and all studies have some intermission between reading and the test) you will see that the maths problem is to prevent the subject from thinking about the material, and increasing their retention through that process. This is how Karpicke (and other retrieval practice researchers) control for other memorisation methods. So, because the subject is distracted (doing something completely different from the information they need to practice retrieval on - in this case, a math problem) before they start retrieval, we can conclude with high confidence that any retention they experience is because of retrieval practice, and NOT of other cognitive processes which might increase memory (such as thinking about the information AFTER they've read it but BEFORE they've started practicing retrieval). So don't give yourself time before tests.

Ah got it. Although I was reading in one of the studies from 2007 I believe about expanding retrieval vs spaced retrieval where Karpicke basically says that expanding retrieval is basically bullshit, and that spaced retrieval is better because of the initial long break between the 1st study and the 1st test (this creates desirable difficulty). Whereas the problem with expanding retrieval is that you do a 1st test immediately after studying, and that's no good because it's less of a text.

Would you recommend doing this then? Like say we study, we delay for 2-3 mins, maybe busying ourself by talking to someone (cont...)

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 19:47:26 2017 No.9168650 >studying Can't even imagine what it's like to be such a brainlet

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 19:50:16 2017 No.9168652
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>>9168642

and then we carry on with our "test" (through passive, not active recall, so basically either thinking about it hard enough like your 1st post on this thread mentioned/verbal recall/writing down all that you can remember, instead of doing some quiz on it, which Karpicke says is not as useful). Karpicke recommends this in this paper (http://learninglab.psych.purdue.edu/downloads/2007_Karpicke_Roediger_JEPLMC.pdf).). See pic.

Also, I was YouTube searching Karpicke and I found one of the very few vids of him speaking (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CioabgMyFlA).). In here, he recommends some method where you basically read and whilst you are reading, you take small notes/jot down key words. Then you put the material away and do the active recall, either by thinking about it or by writing it down with the help of your new notes. If you don't know what I am talking about, have a watch of the video. Have you tried this method? Karpicke says he was excited about it (although this video is around 6 yrs old lol)

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 19:51:45 2017 No.9168654 >>9168652 *shit I meant to say through active, not passive recall. Active recall >>>> passive recall.

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 21:36:55 2017 No.9168784

>>9168652

With regards to your first question:

This is why I generally go with reading an entire page and practicing retrieval on it, instead of doing 1/20th of a page (as I memed above). You are correct - you want some desirable difficulty, but you probably don't want to run a 2 minute timer after each page you read, or something. Just reading a large enough chunk of your notes to allow that 1-2min period to pass before you start retrieval practice is enough (at least in my case).

Second question:

I haven't seen this video. But from what you describe, it seems he's talking about notes first, and practicing retrieval on those notes - which, I would wager, is a good method, as long as you understand what you're reading before you start memorising (so you don't memorise by rote).

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 22:14:30 2017 No.9168855 >>9168784 > Just reading a large enough chunk of your notes to allow that 1-2min period to pass before you start retrieval practice is enough (at least in my case). im not the person you are replying to but what does this mean

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 22:17:34 2017 No.9168860

>>9168855

like you read and wheres the gap that is actually good. He recommends a 2 min gap but that is unrealistic. So what do you say we should do isntead? Read properly, glaze over without really reading (for about 30 sec) then start retrieval method?

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 23:34:58 2017 No.9168993

I recommend the MOOC course on Coursera called Learning How to Learn by Dr. Barbara Oakley, and the book she wrote called A Mind for Numbers.

She, and some colleagues, including some MIT PhDs, go into the neuroscience of learning and research-proven strategies for acquiring new knowledge.

She discusses focused and diffuse modes of thinking, and the importance of taking breaks and letting your mind wander, because this is when new connections are formed that you brain will later use as shortcuts for focused thinking.

There's loads more, like sleep hygiene, the importance of self-testing, spaced repetition, etc.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 05:38:08 2017 No.9169402 >>9168627 Ask a question in the sqt or on math.stackexchange.com.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 09:32:47 2017 No.9169777 >>9168993 I've heard good stuff about this but she's written a ton of books.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 10:57:29 2017 No.9169897 >>9169777 >BUT she's written a ton of books >BUT How is, "She's a prolific author" a "BUT" clause?

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 11:05:10 2017 No.9169913

>>9169897

Because she might be some sort of con artist. Like how someone writes 200 books on the same topic just to make money rather than writing to reveal new information. What's the main differences between all those books? They have similar titles and probably reveal the same information. That is why I am a little suspicious.

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 11:07:00 2017 No.9169917

>>9152326

I'm curious, how did your grades go up? What were your grades before hand, did they gradually improve as you got more and more involved in this method or did they take off like a rocket? What was your lowest and highest ever score? What sort of average % mark that you get these days? Do you average 85% +? Any stories on that?

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 13:43:34 2017 No.9170166 >>9152450 >30 minutes per page ...what? I have 500 page texbooks for a single course. what the fuck

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 13:44:54 2017 No.9170169 >>9152287 >>9158601 Drugs are for brainlets.

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 13:59:34 2017 No.9170196

>>9163785
>>9163803
I use Anki for more "rote learning" stuff, like in my psych history courses, or learning what each symptom means - there's not much to understand about bradikinesia except that it's slow movement. But you have to know what bradikinesia is.
On the other hand, retrieval practice is great for really understanding concepts. For example, various mechanisms of evolution (natural and sexual choice, genetic drift, genetic shallow throat, mutations) - you have to elaborate what each of those is, how it affects whatever you're studying specifically, come up with an example etc.
So, different uses.
Not an english speaker, so sorry if I used some terminology wrong

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 14:00:48 2017 No.9170200 By harnessing your inner jew

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 14:00:58 2017 No.9170201 >>9163809 What you're describing in the first sentence is retrieval, while in the second you're describing recognition. Those are the two mechanisms or modes of remembering - retrieval is harder.

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 15:02:15 2017 No.9170301
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>>9152271
The Feynman Technique is hands down the best.

I went from being bottom quarter of High School to being a boss hoss, 4.0 in University.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrNqSLPaZLc

This guy put him self though a full 4 year MIT degree in 1 year with this technique.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 16:45:58 2017 No.9170483 >>9170301 Shit he has nice hair

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 17:55:09 2017 No.9170596 File: 278 KB, 1307x287, Screenshot_2017-09-15_23-53-07.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9169913 Not that poster, but there are 7 books listed on her website on various different topics, so it's not like she wrote the same book 200 times.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 17:57:35 2017 No.9170599 >>9170301 How do you use the Feynman technique in practice? It's kind of hard to give a detailed explanation of a large topic (like an entire chapter) when you can barely understand it. Do you make an outline of what you want to explain?

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 18:03:15 2017 No.9170611 With a gay partner studying the same thing. You cream each others' boypuccis then immediately start studying together with a clear head.

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 18:26:29 2017 No.9170661

>>9152397
>>>read a page of your notes/book/lecture
>>close eyes, literally try to remember as much as you can of what you read by pulling it from the depths of your memory
Nice, this is what I used to do. It does work.

Now I've lost all will to study so I just skim through the material and complement whatever I gather from that with what I remember from class.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 18:48:00 2017 No.9170682 >>9170166 Not going to make it

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 20:18:51 2017 No.9170872 tl;dr all. However read all, what is the most interesting?

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 21:08:28 2017 No.9170983 >>9168784 What is the best testing method? Thinking about it or writing what you can remember?

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 22:21:10 2017 No.9171054

>>9170983
Not him, and I haven't read the whole discussion. In my opinion: writing (particularly handwriting) is more effective because you spend more time thinking, you have to formulate your thoughts explicitly, and the paper acts as an extension of your working memory so you can write down more things. On the other hand, simply thinking about it is quicker, though it's easier to gloss over things and tricking yourself into believing you know something. So I'd say think when you want to go quick, and write when you want to go deep.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 02:59:23 2017 No.9171491 >>9152326 God bless you anon!

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 03:34:22 2017 No.9171544 >>9153831 i really like this image, where is it from?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 03:37:05 2017 No.9171546 >>9171544 A /sci/ related VN called Steins;Gate.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 07:23:03 2017 No.9171815 >>9171054 Damn bro. Nice and deep

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 11:16:16 2017 No.9172133 Why do i keep seeing op's pic?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 17:10:40 2017 No.9172814 >>9152326 Thanks bro

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 18:07:22 2017 No.9172918

>>9169913
She's an MIT alum that collaborates constantly with other current and former MIT and Ivy League personnel to write books on a wide range of topics. You could look at the synopses of her most popular books and immediately tell if she were a con artist or not.

Enjoy your stay on /sci/. You need it more than most people.

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 18:13:32 2017 No.9172931

>>9170301
>>9170599

The Feynman Technique is a form of retrieval drilling.
You study a topic, then put away your resources, notes, etc, and try to write down an explanation for the topic straight from memory.

Feynman said that if you could not explain the topic fully to a peer, you did not understand it. And that if you could not explain the topic to a child, in simple terms, you had not MASTERED it.

So the Feynman technique is basically practicing teaching the thing you're trying to learn to someone else. You must learn it yourself in order to explain it, right? That's how it works. You start off not being able to explain much, but then you ask, "How do I demonstrate this concept?" and you must go learn to do the demonstration.

Study groups that use quiz formats are great for this. Get together with a classmate or two, everyone takes a different part of the current subject they're studying, and their job is to master that one segment before the next study session and then show up and teach the others how it's done.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 18:15:00 2017 No.9172934 >>9165004 >genuis

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 18:17:44 2017 No.9172941 >>9155040 I do this sometimes in old textbooks i pick up in thrift stores. usually if it takes up more than a few lines I'll make a note and write it on scrap paper and put it in the back cover.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 18:48:25 2017 No.9173015 >>9152844 what is wrong with this. it is hard to motivate yourself to do something you hate

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 18:49:56 2017 No.9173017
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>tfw tried to invent my own system of 'learning' a few years ago
>I am an obese brainlet, didn't graduate High School and work in Pizza Hut for 7 years
>decided to try and teach myself Nuclear Physics so I could get a job in a Nuclear Power plant like Homer Simpson
>tried to learn but it was too hard to memrorise the facts and the equations
>decided to create my own 'system'

Basically, my system was based on the fact I work at Pizza Hut. Every day I would try to memorise a new fact about Nuclear Physics, and for each fact I wanted to memorise I would put a piece of food on a customers pizza that wasn't supposed to be there. For example I was trying to memorise if an atom or a molecule is smaller, so for every customer who ordered a cheese pizza that day I snuck in a single mushroom and said 'atoms are smaller' then I could remember from the thrill of messing up a customers order that atoms are smaller than Molecules.

It actually worked very well because before, I did not even know how atoms were made, and did not realise that nuclear radiation was dangerous, and now I understand much more. However, I got in trouble at work for putting ham on a veggie pizza when I was studying Nuclear Fusion so I had to stop learning. However, I feel it worked nicely for me.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 19:11:16 2017 No.9173082 >>9172931 That's basically retrieval practice desu. Although you don't need to be part of a 'study group' to do retrieval practice. You can do it alone (if you're an austist.)

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 19:12:27 2017 No.9173089 >>9173017 WTF....? I mean I am all supportive of you doing your best to improve your life, but I'm not sure that is the best way of going around studying. lol.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 19:33:55 2017 No.9173143 >>9173082 My understanding is that retrieval practice is something you do while studying, while Feynman technique is something you do after studying. Correct?

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 20:08:07 2017 No.9173218

>>9173143

No. Retrieval practice is w/o notes. Like what you described. You read, put it down and try to retrieve. That's literally it. Although retrieval practice doesn't mean that you have to understand it. Retrieval practice is just pure memory recall.

Understanding something though is what is needed by students. Hence Feynman retireval is very good.

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 20:15:44 2017 No.9173237

>>9173143
Not him, but I conform your understanding. I consider myself to practise the Feynman technique. At least in computer science, that works like a charm. (Oh a new theorem about automata! Oh something cool about graph reductions! Oh a new efficient algorithm for coloring shit! Can that help me with the open software verification problem I am thinking about?).
Edward Kmett from the Haskell community has some cool extension of this principle: "He noted that developers are in the business of solving problems, searching for solutions, while researchers often have solutions, but are searching for the right problems to apply them to. As a developer, it can be good to keep abreast of what researchers are discovering in hope of finding a solution to one of your favourite problems."

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 20:26:52 2017 No.9173262 if you don't understand an experiment, it CAN reveal itself in dreams but you have to really be working at the problem

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 20:28:42 2017 No.9173269 >>9173262 also, anything you've ever learned IS STILL IN YOUR BRAIN

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 22:39:57 2017 No.9173483

>>9173082
As I said.. it IS a form of retrieval practice.
And the study group is not required. It just helps a lot. You sit there and quiz each other and test each other and educate each other and you all learn better.

Some high tier unis have courses with shit professors that expect the students to all be in groups that teach themselves.

If you go to an Ivy League school with a guy doing research with a Nobel Laureate as your professor, or your professor's boss, that dude might give shitty, short lectures, no homework, not answer questions, and tell you all straight up that at that point in your college careers, you're expected to be able to learn new topics alone or in a group, so get a peer group together and teach each other.

>>9173143
Nope. Both are a form of studying.
>1. You study the material, in class or alone.
>2. You take notes while you study.
>3. You put your notes and texts, etc, away.
>4. You try to test yourself on as much of the material as possible. You can do this with flash cards, a test you wrote yourself by recording important questions, like, "What is the equation for converting between Kc and Kp?" or "What is the Snell's Law?" or "What are the requirements for an Alternating Series to converge rather than diverge?", or you can get with others and challenge each other.
>5. You take note of what you did and didn't know, and how well you knew it or didn't know it.
>6. You go back to step 1 and study the material again, with emphasis placed on the parts you missed, and less time spent on the parts you had a firm grasp of.

Retrieval practice and the Feynman Method are virtually identical up to here. Where Feynman's Method diverges is simply that his criteria isn't just, "Can I do all the test problems with what I know now?" but beyond that. "Can I do all the test problems AND teach this subject to others effectively?"

A side note: Both of these methods use Spaced Repetition. So you study a bit like this every day. You do not cram.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 23:47:17 2017 No.9173587 >>9173017 Yeah learning by association is powerful. An existing method is something called 'memory house'

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 00:13:11 2017 No.9173655 >>9173587 >called 'memory house' also palace

Anonymous Sun Sep 17 00:14:16 2017 No.9173660

>>9173483

With regards to testing, can you do >>9152397 too and the other method where you physically write done everything you can recall? Whats the best way to test?

Also, what do you mean "can you explain it to others" regarding Feynmans technique? Where does that fit into your numbered list? How exactly do you go around doing it? And is feynman > retrieval practice?

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 02:21:00 2017 No.9173898 >>9173269 what a profoundly stupid statement

Anonymous Sun Sep 17 09:02:58 2017 No.9174337

>>9173483
According to my understanding, the feynman technique is only used *whenever you learn a new technique*. That means: 6 months of vacation and not learning a new technique = no retrieval for 6 months.
Retrieval Practice on the other hand does not care about new techniques, it does not use that trigger. If you apply Spaced Repetions to that, you get a somewhat fixed schedule when to repeat stuff. That is certainly not anything that belongs to the feynman method.

You are right in that the feynman method can be used as a method for active retrieval. But that does not make feynman method an instance of spaced repetition.

>>9173655
>>9173587
Regarding memory palace: If you are interested in that stuff, check the simpler loci method out first. It is way easier mentally placing pictures at places you already know than additionally creating those spaces aswell.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 10:05:29 2017 No.9174402 >>9173017 ahahahahahahahahahh

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 10:47:11 2017 No.9174462 >>9166748 If you can post your condensed notes that would be really great. This thread is very helpful !

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 11:14:43 2017 No.9174522 Also don't even bother if you don't have 130+ IQ.

Anonymous Sun Sep 17 13:43:15 2017 No.9174882
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>>9173660

The only thing that matters is the retrieval of information from memory. Whether you od it while writing down, taking a test, etc - it doesn't matter.

In order to write down what you know, you need to retrieve it from memory.
In order to answer a test question, you need to retrieve it from memory.

Just cut out the middle man and simply put your notes away and retrieve them from memory. That's it. No writing down or whatever required.

Anonymous Sun Sep 17 17:51:03 2017 No.9175385

>>9152844
You are halfway correct. You need a positive opinion about your subject to being good at it, but the problem is: The majority of people have completely worthless interests that would barely pay their rent, so they should try to have fun with dry ass stuff to actually get money.
Business is not fun and complex mathematical proofs are also not fun (no, you have no fun studying them, stop lying), it's frustrating, but you need to convert this frustration in some sort of "video game" kind of way, like if you reach the end of a hard level by using your own skills, this is rewarding, but not the process itself, the process of learning is frustrating, but the process of achieving something is rewarding.

Anonymous Sun Sep 17 18:18:55 2017 No.9175440

>>9174882
That is actually what I am going for! I got this idea from a college of Stephen Hawking: Because he can't take notes, he is forced to find very precise and small representations of things so that he can work out stuff in his head. I am doing the same - i.e. i have a hard exam concerning logic, graph theory and other stuff and I worked to get it all into my mind. Now it sits there and I can revisit topics, proofs and connections between then while I walk somewhere.

I still write rote memo stuff like "100 most frequent czech words" down, but for stuff that I need to understand, I might do a mind map for initial exploring of the topics but then every retrieval happens in my head.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 19:20:24 2017 No.9175549 >>9174882 I dont see how the fenyman technique differs from retrieval practice. Seems like the best method for studying is spaced retrieval practice.

Anonymous Sun Sep 17 21:00:07 2017 No.9175727

>>9174882
I dunno man. I'm too much of a brainlet to have so much shit going on in my head. I need to put it down on paper so I can think about how ideas X relate to ideas Y, Z, and W. It just makes the stream of consciousness more concrete. Otherwise, I would just be jumping around between ideas in my head and losing track of what I was thinking about.

Anonymous Mon Sep 18 00:20:48 2017 No.9175991

>>9174337
In his books, Feynman advocates for spaced repetition in his method. That every once in a while you think up, write down, or speak a subject you'd like to stay current on to make sure you still are. His famous lectures on Physics, his best selling biographies, etc, are partially the result of him just wanting to ruminate on that information.

Certainly, the technique is very focused on acquiring new knowledge. But once you get a topic well mastered in a spaced repetition framework, you might not see it for weeks.

If you're a math grad student, your spaced repetition study plans are not likely pulling up the quadratic formula much anymore, if at all. Your study plans are most likely packed with new stuff you're learning.

>>9174882
Writing serves a purpose, though.
You can review exactly what you know and don't know.
You can leave little notes behind on topics you're unsure of, or mistakes you made. You can correct yourself.

Suddenly, the notes you wrote down as retrieval practice become another document for you to review before your next practice. You can review your notes and skim the textbook again, then, before going into retrieval practice, check the list of topics you got last time, and which ones gave you trouble and why. THEN do the practice.

Additionally, the notes add a component of translation to your comprehension.
It's one thing to be able to think, "A, B, C, means X, Y, Z," and another thing to understand the history, context, processes, and outcome of utilizing a piece of knowledge in a way that can be put to paper or explained to someone else.

Going beyond just silently "knowing" something to articulating it provides a unique boost to comprehension.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 02:16:29 2017 No.9176140 >>9168993 >Learning How to Learn by Dr. Barbara Oakley Thanks anon. The class start today, the 18th. Do you know a place to get he full course now?

Anonymous Mon Sep 18 09:54:15 2017 No.9176525
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>>9176140
Coursera hosts it.
And the course is adapted from her book, A Mind for Numbers.
The course on Coursera is free and basically just a series of short videos on the various topics with some (optional) quizzes thrown in. The Coursera course also includes interviews with experts and high-achievers on related topics.

For example, she interviews a guy who got a BS, MS, and PhD all from MIT about how he studied in that environment. She always interviews Benny from "Fluent in 3 Months" on how he learns languages as quickly as he does.

Then there are optional additional readings, articles, book suggestions, academic papers, etc, at the end of each section as well.

So you should just be able to sign up for Coursera, enroll in the course, and start working on it, and/or buy the book. I found the book for $5 at a used book store, but stupidly passed on it. Then I discovered the Coursera course a week later, went back to the book store, and the copy was gone. So I ended up going to Barnes and Noble and picking up a new copy and it was worth every penny.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 10:25:30 2017 No.9176584 >>9158049 >>The fact that they based their research on this supposition is questionable. They challenged that exact supposition in their research.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 13:06:18 2017 No.9176880 >>9176525 >And the course is adapted from her book, A Mind for Numbers picking on you, but i think the course was first

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 13:29:39 2017 No.9176904 >>9176525 What do you suggest? Coursera + the mind for numbers book? Any other shit you recommend?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 18:01:36 2017 No.9177375 Good thread. Bumped. Don't let it die

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 18:02:23 2017 No.9177376 By killing yourself.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 18:15:39 2017 No.9177398 >>9177376 KYS

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 18:17:58 2017 No.9177403 >>9177398 No U

Anonymous Mon Sep 18 20:08:14 2017 No.9177611
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>Everyone will read this thread and proceed to not follow any of the guidance and procrastinate on their studies and fail all of their classes.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 20:18:02 2017 No.9177626 >>9152271 anally

Anonymous Mon Sep 18 20:33:17 2017 No.9177661

By not being assigned menial tasks such as reviewing and summarizing university policies in order to regain marks for missed classes.
>Not copying your textbook to loose-leaf also helps. Read that bastard to understand, not to be a scribe, copying it as if printers didn't exist. Only make notes of the most important things, and only summarize these (along with concepts you find difficult).
>Not cramming also helps. Spend forty-five minutes reading or working on assignments, then take a fifteen minute break, five minutes of which you should be walking about.

Anonymous Mon Sep 18 21:59:22 2017 No.9177813
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>>9177611
I've actually spent 2 hours a day doing retrieval practice for all 4 of my classes for the past 3 days since finding this thread.

I just aced a Chem 2 exam in part because the 6 hours of retrieval practice I've done up till class this evening cemented every detail I needed.

I was already good on kinematic and equilibrium calculations. I just could not remember little details like the specifics of the Haber process, Le Chatelier's Principle, graphs of first order reactions vs second order reactions, etc. Retrieval practice filled in those gaps.

So now I've got timers and reminders set up on my phone and laptop to remember to spend 1-3 hours a day per class on retrieval practice.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 19 06:01:49 2017 No.9178405 >>9177611 I start to use Retrieval practice few days ago and I can see improvements already, I have to thanks anon that enlighten me on the utility of this technique

Anonymous Tue Sep 19 06:30:05 2017 No.9178438

>>9177813

Congrats Anon. But as someone that literally just discovered this thread, I was wondering exactly how you do you do retrieval practice? Like you say that you do 2 hrs a day doing retrieval practice. Do you do 2 hrs consecutively? Do you have prepared notes from which you do retrieval practice? And how did you actually do it? Did you just read your notes, put them away and then write down all that you could remember? Or did you just physically think about it? I would love it if you could give us a precise, detailed breakdown of what you did. As someone currently struggling with so much biology studies, this could be a lifesaver. Also, what result did you get in your Chem 2 exam? Aced = + 90%?

>>9178405

Same question to you my friend. Can you tell me what exactly you did? What was the method that you used for retrieval practice? I would really appreciate it if you could give us a breakdown of exactly what you did. Like what specific methods did you use? And what improvements can you see from it?

Thanks!

Anonymous Tue Sep 19 07:13:34 2017 No.9178476

>>9178438
>I was wondering exactly how you do you do retrieval practice?

It varies. For Chem 2 I did:
>A. Read/skim the relevant chapters in the textbook and then close the book and try to write down key details, equations, definitions, maybe an example or two, etc.

>B. Read/skim notes from class and put them away and try to write them down again.
Sometimes I also just straight up copy my notes, word for word, and try to improve their structure, include some drawings, write very deliberately to make very pretty notes with good handwriting, almost like I'm hand-drawing my own textbook. This is time consuming but it helps me sometimes.

>C. Make flash cards out of index cards I carry in my backpack for key equations, definitions, concepts, etc.
I'm migrating more towards making Anki Decks on my PC, syncing them to my phone, and using those to study, but I'm still so new that it takes me longer to make an Anki Deck than to make a physical set of flash cards.

https://apps.ankiweb.net/
Anki is AWESOME because it has spaced repetition built in. You tell it how well you grasped each card you made and it automatically sorts them to show your hard cards to you more often and your easier cards less often. The app also tracks your stats so you can monitor your Anki study habits.

Anki decks also have TONS of custimization options, but it takes a lot of effort to learn to use them all. For example, you can write complex formulas in LATEX and set up fancy card effects if you spend some time learning how.

>D. Did the online homework, worked the in-class handouts, and worked a practice test.
If you have ANY class with a problem solving process (math, physics, engineering, programming, chem, etc), you must work examples. No matter what. Examples, examples, examples. They're the best retrieval practice, so long as you don't consult your textbook or notes every problem.

I got a 100% on that Chem 2 exam.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 19 07:14:10 2017 No.9178478 >>9152326 >>>9152385 >>9152393 >>9152429 >>9153162 >>9154144 >>9155880 >>9156226 >>9158049 >>9162801 >>9162823 >>9164373 >>9165971 >>9169917 >>9171491 >>9172814 Nice samefag shilling, you fuck

Anonymous Tue Sep 19 07:23:34 2017 No.9178484

>>9178438
Same anon:
>>9178476

I haven't taken Biology in years, but I recall it being mostly based on definitions and recollection of key terms and processes.

For a class like that, I'd keep a second set of notes during class and study where I wrote down every key term and concept and its definition. Like the name of every part of a cell and a description of what it does. Then I'd put all of those on flash cards and do them whenever I had free time.

Quiz yourself on the words, but also quiz yourself on reading the definitions and recalling what words they match. So have a card like,"What does mitochondria do?", but also one for "Which cell produces energy in a cell?"

I was spending 2 hours consecutively on my studies.
On one hand, you DO focus better if you spend a longer period of time concentrating on just one task. Multitasking and switching between tasks frequently is proven to hinder learning a bit.

On the other hand, spaced repetition is critical, so you want to space your studying out. So try to set aside 1-3 hours to focus on a subject, but make time for it every day or two, and quiz yourself when you have down time. Like when you're sitting on the toilet, riding the bus, or eating, you can have your phone out with the Anki app open, going through flash cards.

Also remember to take breaks, preferably every 30-60 minutes, to walk around and get your blood flowing. Let your mind wander. Make some time for relaxation every day. Rest and diffuse (background) thinking is just as important as focused thinking. Working out helps. You can let your mind wander, get your blood pumping, and it's proven that a hormone released during exercise directly triggers neurons to grow and branch.

Your body thinks, "I'm doing something hard, something important must be happening. Better remember this." So I've also found that bursts of cardio/lifting heavy weights WHILE studying helps me focus and retain information.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 19 08:36:21 2017 No.9178538 If you give spaced repetition a try you will feel like your brain is on steroids.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 19 08:45:08 2017 No.9178541 File: 16 KB, 1498x203, Capture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9178478 Anon, there's no need to be a dick. (pic related) >>9177813 >>9178405 Wow. I'm really happy this has helped people. Keep it up guys.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 19 08:55:44 2017 No.9178550 >>9178476 lol if u got 100% on that chem exam then that exam was either piss easy or you're a genius. A better question is what were ur exam grades before doing this retrieval method.

Anonymous Tue Sep 19 09:01:40 2017 No.9178554

>>9178484
>>9178538

Isn't spaced repetition also something to do with doing other topics as well. Like if you study subject A for 1 hr doing a retrieval method then you should have a break a before doing subject B for 1 hr and then return to subject A. Is that right or have I got it wrong...?

Anonymous Tue Sep 19 09:07:57 2017 No.9178560

>>9178538

I keep reading this. But whilst retrieval practice can literally be understood by the name, spaced repetition is different. How much spacing? Do you space between hours? Days? Weeks? And what do you do between the spacing? Other topics or procrastination? Spaced repetition is very subjective and if people do it wrong, it can have disastrous concequences.

Anonymous Tue Sep 19 10:14:21 2017 No.9178635

>>9178550
Low-mid 90s average.
Kinetics and Equilibrium are also not the trickiest of chem subjects.
Know the rate rules, know the equilibrium rules, know how to build a r.i.c.e. table, and know le chatalier's principle and you've got nearly everything.

>>9178554
I'm not sure it matters. You do need breaks, though.
Don't just rush from topic to topic. Take some time to digest what you've studied. You don't HAVE to go A->B->A in one sitting.
You should study some A, take a break, study some B, take a break, etc.
From what I can tell, the longer you do it, the better feel you get for the timing.

Some subjects you need to focus on for 2-4 hours a day and then not touch again until the next day.
Others are best with 30 minute study sessions interspersed with your other business for the day. Like I had a philosophy class I couldn't binge on. I had to study in short bursts and think on what I was reading. So I'd slide 15-30 minutes of studying in between classes, during lunch, before bed, etc.

So my technique ended up being: Read all of the assigned philosophy reading over a weekend or in bed before going to sleep, but then never binge study on that reading again. Instead, review notes and do flash cards on the reading off and on during the day. Worked great.

On the other hand, I had an engineering class that demanded 4 hours of focus. I'd spend 3 hours getting problems wrong and figuring out why, then 2 hours of doing homework correctly, then 1 hour of retrieval testing and making study materials for future sessions.

Every day I had to spend the 4 hours after lunch but before my evening classes just hammering away at that engineering class, otherwise my progress was too slow to keep up with the exam and HW schedule.

Anonymous Tue Sep 19 10:23:22 2017 No.9178646
File: 25 KB, 400x132, QinJY.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>9178560
Look into the Anki Method and similar spaced repetition regimes.
Your spacing varies. The better you know a topic, the less often you review it. The worse you know it, the more often.

Every day, at least once, you review the material you want to know. The parts of it you grasp get pushed down the study priority list and you review it less often. The stuff you struggle with gets moved towards the top of the list.

See pic related.
The theory is that memory loss on a topic almost follows an exponential decay function, and that the function decreases more slowly and levels out the more exposure you have to a subject. So every time you refresh on a topic, you remember a little bit more for a little bit longer.

However, you have no way of knowing what items of your studies are on which curves! You don't know which ones you'll forget 50% of by tomorrow, and which ones you'll remember 80% of a week or two into the future.

This sorting method helps fix that. You sort what you know well vs what you struggle with differently and get a distribution among your study topics. Some are set up for frequent review, some for regular review, some for occasional review, and some things are rarely reviewed if you've 100% remembered them the past several times you've reviewed them.

Over time, hopefully, ALL topics will slide back into the "rarely reviewed" category because you've studied them well.
However, you're also always adding new topics. So you always have a fresh batch of topics to study frequently, while your older topics get easier and easier to recall and use up less and less of your study time.

When finals come up, you can mix things up by literally mixing things up. Take all your old topics and mix them in with the new and resort them based on how easy they are for you to see if you need to brush up on any of them before the final exams.

Anonymous Tue Sep 19 10:37:42 2017 No.9178672

>>9178476

>Anki is AWESOME because it has spaced repetition built in. You tell it how well you grasped each card you made and it automatically sorts them to show your hard cards to you more often and your easier cards less often.

Isn't this exactly what the studies suggest you shouldn't do? Dropping out those you think you already know (or diminishing their frequency) was exactly what yielded the lowest results.

Anonymous Tue Sep 19 10:52:36 2017 No.9178697

>>9178672

Correct. As someone that has read 3/4 of Karpicke's studies, dropping out info is really bad IF you don't test yourself on it. Dropping out is ok if you test yourself on it afterwards. But why not just learn all the stuff and not drop out anything?

BUT having said that, anki may just program itself to show you the mistakes you made and make you re do the. So not necessarily dropping them out, just less frequent good cards. That said, i dont use anki so....

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 19 12:25:09 2017 No.9178856 >>9160101 she thicc nig

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 19 12:56:45 2017 No.9178917 I'm thinking of buying Make it Stick and A mind for Numbers. Anyone here recommend the best How to Study books?

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 19 14:15:59 2017 No.9179014 >>9178917 You have the best technique on how to study in this thread already, now go to learning and stop procrastinating

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 19 14:19:55 2017 No.9179019 >>9152400 >Why are unfunny meme spammers obsessed with an unfunny meme The world may never know

Anonymous Tue Sep 19 14:53:10 2017 No.9179075

>>9154797
In a general textbook such as for mathematics, the problems increase in difficulty from the start of the exercises to the end. The initial questions tend to be more mechanical, and then conceptual, and then applied.

Work each subsection of difficulty until you're confident enough to move onto the next, and upon completing applications comfortably, proceed to the next session.

Anonymous Tue Sep 19 15:35:36 2017 No.9179149
File: 216 KB, 960x960, content_dozenal-tau-unit-circle.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>9154797

If you want to guarantee an A yeah... ideally
I do a sampling from each section depending on comfort level. Less comfort means do more. It's not new or trendy. It just works.

Anonymous Tue Sep 19 17:15:49 2017 No.9179291

>>9178672
No. You do not drop anything. I specifically explained that you revisit it. You just don't go over it as frequently as harder material. You physically cannot keep studying everything at the same frequency. By the end of the semester you'd be spending hours a day on each class going through old material from week 1 that bores you to tears.

The purpose of the spaced repetition sorting method is specifically to keep revisiting EVERY topic, and if you revisit an old one and suddenly find you don't remember it well, THE SYSTEM SHOVES IT TO THE FRONT OF THE LIST. It self-corrects.

>>9178697
>But why not just learn all the stuff and not drop out anything?
Think about having an exam due in 3 days over topics J, K, and L.
You got A's on topics A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, and I because of your awesome study method.

Are you going to spend hours studying topics A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, and I over J, K, and L, or are you going to prioritize J, K, and L as you approach the exam over those topics?

Anonymous Tue Sep 19 17:19:30 2017 No.9179292

>>9178672
The study used a really extreme dropout method, where items were dropped after the first successful recall, if I understood it correctly. Flashcard programs don't do this, they just wait a really long time before retesting you on a piece of information that you've successfully recalled a multiple times, which is useful in practice, because you don't have time to retest yourself on everything every day. You can also just "cheat" and give lower ratings in the program to be retested sooner.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 19 17:19:33 2017 No.9179293 >>9152271 open book read it

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 19 17:20:55 2017 No.9179297 >>9154824 >KuriSU Hey there cutie

Anonymous Tue Sep 19 17:28:16 2017 No.9179302

>>9179291
>>9179292

Re-studying at the same frequency provides equal to superior retention compared to the "longer and longer pause" if you decrease testing frequency for information you've already studied.

Source: one of Karpicke's studies (think it was one of his postdocs)

Anonymous Tue Sep 19 17:37:25 2017 No.9179312

>>9179302
Yeah I get that that would be ideal, but you can't really do that in practice, because you have to learn more and more things, so the best compromise is decreasing testing frequency over time. You will also use the things you've learned, so you will have to set less time aside for studying those things using retrieval, because you already do the retrieval when you use them.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 19 17:41:55 2017 No.9179320 >>9152273 This honestly. The problem is the time between homework assignments is never long enough to fully complete the process.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 19 18:05:34 2017 No.9179349 >>9179302 That is called expanding retrieval iirc. Imo retrieval + equal spacing is good enough.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 19 22:19:32 2017 No.9179790 >>9152844 Fluff. Kys.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 19 22:34:32 2017 No.9179808 >>9166741 Here fishy fishy! Who's gonna bite?

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 19 23:22:21 2017 No.9179870 >>9152271 The Darwin work way. Wake up, breakfast, walk, work (study) for like three hours, and then relax. It'll let you absorb what you've learned and allow you to better recall it. The cramming that everyone does is stupid and not very efficient.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 19 23:39:02 2017 No.9179902 >>9152273 This, your main enemy is bordem and time.

Anonymous Wed Sep 20 00:02:13 2017 No.9179940

>>9152397
Neato! I do this all the time, it got to the point where I would remember the exact location of the text in the book as well as the context. It doesn't work well with the sciences and problem solving questions, but is extremely helpful for memorizing terminology.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 20 01:00:29 2017 No.9180064 >>9179902 >bordem Javier?

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 20 01:22:55 2017 No.9180101 >>9152271 Attend class, ask questions, review notes from class, if all else fails, crack open the book.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 20 02:48:08 2017 No.9180182 >>9176525 Thanks anon. I've read the book, its great! Anymore suggestions?

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 20 03:18:09 2017 No.9180203 >speech coming up >can't anki myself into speaking skills

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 20 03:27:07 2017 No.9180209 >>9180203 You can memorise your speech using: >>9152397

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 20 07:54:55 2017 No.9180440 >>9179870 >Studying only 3 hours a day. How is that possible? inb4 haha le funny brainlet meme xd etc

Anonymous Wed Sep 20 09:03:36 2017 No.9180500

>>9180182
Not really related to learning, but The Power of Habit, by Charles Duhigg is great. It's all about how habits work, why they work, how they can be helpful or harmful, and how to change them. It's relevant to studying because it discusses the process of breaking bad habits, like procrastinating, and forming good habits, like studying consistently.

Willpower, by Roy Baumeister is also good. It's drawn some controversy in recent years, because its core argument is that willpower is a finite resource, linked to blood glucose levels and some hormones, like cortisol. The idea is that forcing yourself to do things you're not habituated to, or that you don't want to do, costs more energy than doing things that you do automatically or that you enjoy doing.

So the key to success is to habituate/automate good behaviors. To build good habits that don't require mental effort on your part to undertake. The book argues that the more you undertake a behavior that's hard for you, like studying for hours on a Saturday, the more of a habit it will become and the less willpower it will take to perform, until eventually it takes no willpower because it's automatic.

Anonymous Wed Sep 20 09:11:26 2017 No.9180508

>>9180500

I've read The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg. It doesn't really fit into this thread desu. I mean habits can be good and bad and you can create new habits but if you're on /sci/, chances are you don't need motivation to study but instead need to be given advice on how to study. This is why I am having a look at Make it Stick by Roediger and some other guy

Anonymous Wed Sep 20 09:25:58 2017 No.9180517
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I'm brainlet, did I got this right?

1. Understand the material
2. Make master notes of everything that I need to know (Would like to learn more about note taking)
3. Read a page of master notes
4. Write down what I remember, check what I didn't remember
5. Read page again and repeat until I can write down everything on paper and even better, remember everything just in my head without needing to write it down

Anonymous Wed Sep 20 09:32:47 2017 No.9180524

>>9180508
Even in subject that you like you're bound to encounter boring part that need to be done anyway, the grind is real. To get through it you need willpower but it is a finite ressource. Sure you can train to increase it, but the whole point of the book is to self-monitor and adapt one own habit and routine in order to not rely on willpower as much. In the long term it defniatly works. In learning, The EQ parts, which is not just "MUH FEELINGS" is severly underated.

Anonymous Wed Sep 20 09:39:53 2017 No.9180529

>>9180517
> 2. Make master notes of everything that I need to know (Would like to learn more about note taking)

Look into feynman techniques

> 2. Read page again and repeat until I can write down everything on paper and even better, remember everything just in my head without needing to write it down

Almost, focus only on the material you have trouble recalling.

Anonymous Wed Sep 20 09:41:31 2017 No.9180534

>>9180524

Oh yeah. I don't mean to say that the book is bad. It's definately great on some things. But I think what this thread is looking for is retrieval practice and spaced retention rather than forming good habits. You don't need 10 hrs a day to study, you can do better studying in 1 hr if you know the best methods.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 20 09:43:01 2017 No.9180536 >>9180529 Not the same guy but what even is good note taking? Note taking is just summarizing concepts and ideas in your own words.

Anonymous Wed Sep 20 10:06:57 2017 No.9180569

>>9180508
Habit is fundamental to everything humans do. And it's vital to studying. The most important things students need:

Good study HABITS.
Good sleep HABITS.
Good nutritional HABITS.
Good exercise HABITS.

You need to habitually go to class on time.
You need to habitually study.
You need to habitually get 8 hours of sleep per night.
You need to habitually eat and drink healthy things and avoid junk food and fast food.
You need to habitually hit the gym when you have down time and always try to take the stairs or walk a moderate distance instead of drive.

>>9180534
>"I think what this 281 post thread needs is 281 MORE posts on retrieval practice and spaced repetition. NO OTHER STUDY RELATED CONTENT ALLOWED."

>>9180517
Google "note-taking methods".
There are tons, like the Cornell Method.

You also don't want to just write down everything you can remember. That'll bore you to death. You want to try different methods of testing yourself.

The system you describe will make you great at repeating your notes verbatim. What you need is practice tests/quizzes/homework that tests your understanding. You need applications to try out. Flash cards are great for this.

Anonymous Wed Sep 20 10:46:07 2017 No.9180621
File: 22 KB, 500x648, hhh.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>9180534

Sound reasoning. Retrieval practice is literally the best studying method

>>9180569

Considering other study methods do fuck all compared to retrieval practice + spaced repetition, yeah, just focus on those two

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 20 10:52:55 2017 No.9180631 >>9180569 What are you on about you cunt? It is objectively true that retrieval and spaces retention are the best study tips currently. The stats back it up. Read all the papers behind it. I only answered OP's question.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 20 11:20:35 2017 No.9180667 >>9152718 You read a proof trying to understand it. After a while, you try to outline the proof in your mind. If you fuck up, it means you didn't understand it well enough and you have to reread it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 20 14:33:41 2017 No.9180947 >retrieval practice Is it not obvious to people if that you can't independently reproduce answers a mere 10 minutes after departing from your training wheels that you really don't know it? This has been basic knowledge all my life.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 20 15:25:18 2017 No.9181034 >>9180947 Tbf its not that clear cut for some people.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 20 15:39:28 2017 No.9181057 >>9181034 Forgive me, my last post was really cunty. What do you mean though? It's not clear that's how things work or that isn't exactly how it works?

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 20 16:31:34 2017 No.9181149 >>9180440 Well, you take three hours and then you study for those three hours or so.

Anonymous Wed Sep 20 16:38:37 2017 No.9181156

>>9181057

No worries.

What I mean is they've never been taught *how* to study. When I went to School, there was no help on how to study. How many teachers know about Karpicke, Roediger and their studies? I would say very few. In fact just today I read that in one of their studies, they asked students to rank their studying method. Something like 70% said re reading was a good way to study. I think like 15% said retrieval practice was good and 1% said that retrieval practice was the first method they did when studying. 1%! Yet all the studies, and there are many, are very clear on what methods are best regarding studying.

Retrieval Practice isn't anything new. In 1620, Francis Bacon wrote, “If you read a piece of text through twenty times, you will not learn it by heart so easily as if you read it ten times while attempting to recite from time to time and consulting the text when your memory fails.” That's textbook retrieval practice.

The question is - why do teachers not know this and tell students about it? Why do students re read rather than retrieve?

Anonymous Wed Sep 20 17:10:29 2017 No.9181215

>>9181156
Shit dude, I love this thread so much. I have so much to say about this, but I gotta go to work for now.

This is a very psychology heavy topic and it's one of my favorites. I tutor high schoolers and college students in assorted math topics, and I've really come to understand that a lot of the processes I take for granted are not mutually understood by the rest of the populace. I spent most of my teenage years and then some just up my own ass, checking out my own psychology, so that might have something to do with it.

Simple things like how to check if you solved for a variable correctly are NOT well known. That strikes me as very odd because that simple skill was a tremendous help through every subject I learned as a child.

Anonymous Wed Sep 20 18:07:14 2017 No.9181319

>>9181215

Speaking as a teenager who accidentally stumbled into /sci/ and is a freshman/fresher, I can personally say that I have never heard of these studying techniques in this thread. WTF? I was told to draw diagrams and highlight and shit. Nobody told me about "retrieval practice" or anything. WTF. This entire thread is like one massive redpill on psychology, studying and neurology. I'm definitely archiving this shit and checking out all the recommendations in this thread.

I now know how those geniuses in my old classes were so clever and how they aced exams time and time again. If only I knew before....

Anonymous Wed Sep 20 18:09:03 2017 No.9181324

>>9181215

Also, I would be very interested in what you have to say since you're a tutor and seem knowledgable about the topic. Any info on studying/retrieval practice/other shit and also on general tips in university (like preparing for a lecture, how to be organised etc...)?

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 20 19:17:22 2017 No.9181453 >>9181149 What kinda grades are you getting?

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 20 19:22:53 2017 No.9181457 >>9180524 >defniatly >>9180534 >definately Definitely. Spell it with me: D E F I N I T E L Y. Definitely.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 20 19:28:33 2017 No.9181468 File: 242 KB, 550x370, textbooks_110509_bookstack001_rr_jpg_800x1000_q100.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] How do you read textbooks, /sci/? Is SQ3R a meme? I know just reading straight through isn't correct because it's boring as fuck.

Anonymous Thu Sep 21 01:53:22 2017 No.9182035

>>9181319
>>9181324
Oh boy. Well, let me bounce my ideas off you guys because I haven't really been able to talk with people about this before because who wants to listen to a guy rant about study habits, you know? It's not fun dinner conversation. I guess I'll just dump a whole shit ton of my observations.

Let me tell you one of the most rampant things I see in students. The most drastic case was a young lady I was helping with Calculus recently. She was learning how to take derivatives of polynomials. However, the exercises we give our students require pulling knowledge not just from current material but previous material. For instance, let me give you an example.

Derivative of [math]\frac{3}{2}x^\frac{1}{2}[/math].

Whether you know calculus or not, you can surely follow this next step. When you take a derivative of a lone variable like this, you multiply the expression by the exponent and then subtract one from the exponent.

[math]\frac{1}{2}*\frac{3}{2}x^{\frac{1}{2}-1}[/math]

And resolve.

[math]\frac{3}{4}x^{\frac{-1}{2}}[/math]

Notice, that very first step in which you decided to multiply and then subtract one... THAT'S A CALCULUS STEP. Resolving it was just algebra. She could follow the pattern of multiplying by the exponent and then subtracting one. She could not multiply those fractions and she could not subtract them. She got 0 for her exponent and [math]\frac{3}{2}[/math] for her coefficient. She COULD NOT subtract or multiply two fractions together. She went to go grab her calculator after I let her know that she had made a mistake.

The reason I'm telling you this story isn't because "hahah this girl was so dumb" but I have seen countless students just like this. It indicates a pandemic in math that we have students in Calculus and Statistics who would fail an algebra class, or even an elementary level mathematics course. One friend of mine was a chemistry major who couldn't convert from whole numbers to mixed numbers.

Anonymous Thu Sep 21 02:04:35 2017 No.9182050

>>9182035
This is the story of almost every struggling student I have ever met with. My solution? "If you want to move forward comfortably, you have to go back and revisit older material first."

This is the theory I've come up with for why math education is struggling in the US. Students do not need complete and total mastery of a subject before moving onto the next one. However, the bar we have set for passing is far too low because how you can possibly hope to study geometry when you're still struggling to understand what "like terms" are or how to solve an equation? So then you're struggling in geometry too. But they pass because the bar for passing is knee height. So they go onto Algebra 2... and so on.

There is a lot to be said about the inconsistencies between teachers that interacts in unique ways with this process, but I don't want to get into that here. But basically, for one of my first suggestions for studying:

Almost every struggling math student I meet is struggling on current material because he does not have any semblance of mastery over the requisite material. I don't think many people have the experience in the curriculum to realize this problem.

Moving on...

I have broken math up into three categories. Mechanics, concepts, and applications.

An example of mechanics is, "Can you take a derivative?" "Can you solve this equation?"

An example of concepts is, "What is a derivative?" "Why did we solve for when the denominator is equal to 0?"

An example of applications is "Use math to solve this real world problem with the information we've provided."

Typically, if you can just master the mechanics without understanding a lick of why you're doing it, that's an excellent place to start. You can pass almost all low-bar classes with that kind of functional knowledge.

The problem is, the bar tends to rise as you go up in the difficulty of subjects. You start to have professors instead of teachers, and they are not under as much pressure to pass you

Anonymous Thu Sep 21 02:21:09 2017 No.9182069

>>9182050
The problem arises when after being a Calculus I class for 13 weeks, you ask a student, "What is a derivative?" and they hit you with a thousand yard stare. They don't have a single clue what a derivative means conceptually. A fellow tutor taught me to ask that question and it stuns me how right he was. Many people are lost conceptually.

Applications is a disaster. Every struggling student fears applications. However, if you can comfortably master most application problems, you are in an outstanding position and probably won't struggle with math in general.

For the most part, the pattern is that mechanics are easier than concepts which are easier than applications.

Here's where this gets interesting:

TEXTBOOKS TEND TO FOLLOW THIS PATTERN TOO.

Most textbooks start off with mechanical questions that are simply solving equations or performing operations without any rhyme or reason. Slowly, the questions become more conceptual and then eventually they turn into applications (word problems) with the more difficult problems just before the transition to the next. This is more or less the pattern for many books.

Combine this knowledge with the bar your teacher sets for you. If they have high expectations on their tests, you should not relax on your studies until you're good with applications. You should know the mechanics of a concept at a minimum.

Moving on...

Most students cannot read math. Given [math]f(x)=x^2 - 1[/math], evaluate [math]f(3)[/math] means absolutely nothing to some students. Throw in a [math]g(x)[/math] at the same time and they're fucking dead.

Math is a language on its own and you have to be able to speak it. You know how if somebody's talking slang and you're not familiar with the slang of the area, it just sounds like gibberish? Same thing.

Students need to spend just as much time learning to read and write math as they do on the operations of math. Being illiterate in math is a death sentence.

Anonymous Thu Sep 21 02:40:59 2017 No.9182084

>>9182069
If you can't read math, you can't understand what's being asked of you. That previous question is incredibly straight forward to solve, but you can't find the answer if you don't know what the question is. You have to understand that "find the zero", "find the root", "find where [math]f(x)=0[/math]", and "find where [math]f[/math] crosses the x-axis" are pretty much all asking roughly the same thing and require the same process. This happens at all levels of math. The "slope of the tangent line" , "the derivative at" and the "instantaneous rate of change" are the same thing.

For this reason, you should pay attention to the language in examples just as much as the process.

Moving on...

Students have no idea how to use a textbook. When somebody is stuck on an exercise in their book, I ask them, "What could you do to find out?" and they say, "I don't know." They never turn back a few pages and look for a similar example. When they can't remember trig identities, they never turn to the back of the book for that table of trig identities. When they're uncertain if their answer is correct, they never check their answers in the back of the book. If they're not sure how to take a limit, they never look it up in the index. Hell, I'm an enormous advocate of JUST GOOGLE THIS SHIT and nobody ever hits me with that answer.

I'm not good with lectures, so I usually just learn from the textbook. I do a cursory read through the section, noting some of the theorems and examples they provide. I then hop right into the easy problems of the section and see how I fare. The second I start to struggle, I turn to the examples to find a relevant one. And then I carry on. And I just repeat this process until I'm comfortable with the section as a whole.

Poetically, the difference between the answers in the back of the book simply being the answers or a tool of learning is your intent. Crave not the answer, but only to confirm that your process was good.

Anonymous Thu Sep 21 02:57:08 2017 No.9182094

>>9182084
Moving on...

Learning from examples! The best way to learn how to apply theorems or how to read math is to follow an example. How do you read an example effectively? At every single step, try to say, "What would I do here?" and then look at the next step to confirm. This starts with reading the question.

"They said find the root of [math]f(x)[/math]... I don't know what that means, but they set the function equal to 0." You should then think to yourself, "Maybe find the root means set the function equal to 0."

One of the strongest abilities all living creatures have is the ability to learn through imitation. When we don't know what to do in a situation, we look around to see what others were doing. This IS learning. Imitation is a means of learning. So take a problem from the exercises, find the correct and relevant example, and try to follow it to the T.

What's incredibly important about learning from examples is that if you reflect on the differences you observe, you can actually patch up misunderstandings from previous material just on virtue of thoroughly examining an example and not skimping on any details.

I think this is a very important process to remedying that pandemic I mentioned previously because it's a self-remedy. Without any professional intervention or any incredible presence of mind, you can figure out what you were missing before. Because examples operate under the assumption that you know pre-requisite materials, any point where you don't understand the step and there isn't a good explanation of that step may be an indication that you are missing something important. So if you don't know how they got from [math]sin(x)=\frac{1}{2}[/math] to [math]x=\frac{\pi}{2}[/math] and there isn't a good explanation, maybe you should look up that step by itself on google.

You can take that process of close inspection and comparison to the fucking bank because it works for anything. Dieting? Lifting technique? Programming? DotA?

Anonymous Thu Sep 21 03:06:54 2017 No.9182104

>>9182094
Moving on...

I should have said this first, but either way, I'm still like the 50th person to talk about spaced practice. Granted, research has improved on my own process, but for now, I'll just talk about mine. Let me give some examples first.

I performed in plays from like the 6th grade until I finished high school. I had to memorize a TON of scripts and I had to know them well. First things first: I only memorized my parts. Saves me a lot of trouble.

I would read a line. I would then look away and see if I could recall that line.

If yes, I would read the next line, look away, and recall BOTH lines.

If yes, I would read the next line, look away, and recall ALL THREE lines.

If no, I would re-read the line and try again. If I forgot previous lines, I would look up the lines I forgot and rebuild again. I learned this is called a stacking mechanism.

Once I was finished, I would repeat them to myself a few more times to make sure it was memorized.

Here comes the spaced practice. I would go do something else entirely for maybe 10 or 15 minutes. I would then repeat them all to myself again. Naturally, I lost some things, so I would spend some time trying to recover them rather than immediately look them up again. If I could manage to recover them, they became much more defined in my memory.

I would wait much longer this time. Go play some games. After a few hours, I would see what I still retained. Same process as before. Attempt recovery on anything I didn't know. If I was hopeless, I had to just look it up and then would repeat that particular segment of the script several times.

HERE'S THE KICKER...

Whatever you recall after sleeping is probably prepped for easy recall for the next few days. There are some theories that sleep takes a role in memory consolidation, and speaking anecdotally, I'm almost positive it's true. It seems to wash away every little detail that isn't truly committed to your memory. A fresh start tomorrow.

Anonymous Thu Sep 21 03:18:28 2017 No.9182111

>>9182104
Math is the same way. People never tackle problems by themselves or they do, but after getting help with the solution, never attempt another exercise like it to ensure they understood the process. See how that might the problem? They don't realize they haven't committed the process to memory and subsequently get fucked on a test because they only managed through their homework with a guiding hand every step of the way.

So what I recommend is struggling through some problems, THEN DO SOME MORE WITHOUT HELP, and see what you retained. Repeat this until you're succeeding regularly.

Now, take a break and come back. You will have lost some of it but you will certainly have retained some as well. Do your best with what time you have.

Every time you sleep, you are wiping your memory of everything that you don't truly understand. So when you wake up the next day and forgot what [math]cos(60)[/math] is, it's because it wasn't committed to memory like everything else. THAT'S OKAY THOUGH! It doesn't happen overnight. You'll get plenty more practice.

As an aside, for years I would read license plates, try to memorize them, and forget them 15 minutes later. I was bored while driving.

A few months ago, I tried actively applying the concepts of spaced recall in the following pattern:

Look away, recall
1 minute, recall
2 minutes, recall
5 minutes, recall
10 minutes, recall
20 minutes, recall
1 hour, recall
5 hours, recall
Tomorrow, recall.

If I made it to tomorrow, I had that plate committed. I started collecting them.

Strangely enough, one day, I forgot one of them. License plates are a string of random letters and numbers, so there was no way for me to recover it. Looked like I had lost it because I couldn't recall a single detail about it.

Spontaneously two hours later, it struck me out of the blue what it was. No idea why, but a whole month later, I still have it memorized even though I haven't thought of it in weeks. 740 SED.

Anonymous Thu Sep 21 03:33:33 2017 No.9182131

>>9182111
I guess I have most of the really big stuff out of the way. I'll just throw out some random tips from here.

If you are sleep deprived, your long term memory fares well, but your working and short term memory takes huge hits. What this looks like is correct process, stupid mistakes. [math] 3 - 7 = 7 [/math] <--- this kind of stuff.

Checking your work is insanely important. You can do this a few ways.

For solving equations, you can usually plug in your solution and see if it yields what you were looking for. (Hmm... [math]f(3)[/math] was supposed to equal 0, not -17...) This works through most basic maths but becomes more difficult to apply in abstract exercises.

Reverse what you just did... Redistribute what you factored. If it isn't the same as before, you made a mistake. Differentiate what you just integrated. You have to mess up TWICE now to miss an error!

In algebra and trig, a great way to check the legality of a move is to plug in some numbers for your variables in the previous expression and see if the new expression at those values is the same. If they're different, you've made a mistake.

Hmm... [math]x^2+2x+1[/math] when x=1 is 4, but my factored [math](x+1)(x+2)[/math] when x=1 evaluates to be 6.

Anonymous Thu Sep 21 03:52:37 2017 No.9182140
File: 26 KB, 600x394, 1481382922886.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>9182131
Notes?

I never took notes. If I did, I never looked at them again. The idea is you take notes so you can look at them later, right? Well, I just looked at the textbook.

I still don't take notes. I don't think I understand their purpose. I guess notes would be good if you keep making the same mistake over and over again, but ultimately, isn't the point to be strong enough to act independently of any source material? I think I've always been pretty strong in math especially when it comes to learning independently, so I never needed to take notes.

I did, however, take notes in other topics such as writing. Usually, it was when I was hit with a particularly profound piece of advice. I'd have a sheet of paper with some scribblings on one side and I'd see other students had 5 pages of double-sided notes that were color-coordinated and written in what could easily have been caligraphy compared to mine. Not sure what that was about.

If you have trouble sitting down and doing your homework, try asking somebody to do homework with you. Not a close friend, because you might just goof off when you meet, but somebody you don't know that well. At risk of looking like a shit, you probably won't miss that meeting and you won't sit back and do nothing.

My rants are almost done. One final thing... This picture here? This is entirely accurate, but there is some profound truths here. Writing is definitely worse than doing which is definitely worse than applying.

Teaching is special. If you have good will towards other people, you will not settle for giving them half-assed explanations. You call yourself to a higher standard. When you give explanations, you will force yourself onto a level of thoroughness that you didn't know you were capable of. That creeping feeling of guilt you get is all the feedback you need to know where you were bullshitting. This very act of teaching another person commits the content to memory like nothing else you could even imagine.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 21 03:53:40 2017 No.9182142 >>9182140 This isn't entirely accurate* is what I meant to say. The details are muddy but the concept is solid.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 21 03:57:30 2017 No.9182150 Great ending to this thread.

Anonymous Thu Sep 21 05:56:10 2017 No.9182234

>>9181156

I study to become a teacher (in Germany, being a teacher requires a master's degree plus 18 months of intense preparation service at school), and I had never heard of Karpicke before this thread.
The university teaches us a lot of stuff, but it is mainly models of how to prepare a class and how to reflect our own lessons. We had a class of paedagogical psychology and I kid you not but we learned about pavlovian conditioning (something I would probably go to jail for if I did that to my pupils).

Educational "science" - at least the way it is taught at university in Germany - is mostly ideological bullshit. We never talked about scientific studies into the effectiveness of certain methods. We hardly even talked about methods of learning / studying / teaching at all.

That is why most teachers don't know. They are being bombarded with often useless trivia (that they still have to study to pass university) instead of learning actually useful material in relation to the job they are training for.

Anonymous Thu Sep 21 07:24:38 2017 No.9182305

>>9180621
>>9180631
>It is objectively true that retrieval and spaces retention are the best study tips currently.

>Considering other study methods do fuck all compared to retrieval practice + spaced repetition, yeah, just focus on those two

Not only is this wrong, it's a also logically fallacious.
There are elements to scholarship that are crucial to your success but NOT study-related.

So even if we grant your implication that retrieval practice and spaced repetition is the end all of study methods, the other topics mentioned would still deserve discussion here because there is more to academic excellence than just studying well. Your argument is fundamentally invalid.

>>9181319
>I was told to draw diagrams and highlight and shit.
This is often an attempt to accommodate "visual learners". Graphing concepts can help, especially if you do it without references.

Eg: Like if you sit down and try to map out all of the concepts of Calculus. Draw a road map from the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus to Differentials and Integrals and from those two to each of their applications and sub-fields with dotted lines connecting cross-overs between the two.

If you challenge yourself to remember every stop on that map, all the theorems, maybe a few example problems, etc, it could be tremendously useful as a form of retrieval practice AND uses elements of memorization theory by graphing those elements to 2D space.

>>9182035
On my final calc exam (vector calc, etc), I would've had a 100%, but I added some fractions wrong and it cost me 2 points. Fundamentals really are important. I also frequently forget log properties, e, etc, so have to always include those in my study material. Doing Khan Academy Precalculus quizzes are great for catching this stuff, since it covers College Algebra, Trig, Vectors, Matrices, Complex Numbers, etc, all in one course.

Anonymous Thu Sep 21 07:29:03 2017 No.9182313

>>9182234
That's strange. In the US, I've met a lot of people studying to be teachers, and they're how I found out about a lot of this stuff. For example, I recently overheard two people studying to teach math discussing the importance of repeated stimulus in recall. Like you remember a topic better if you see, hear, taste, smell, etc, something similar between the time you're being tested and when you studied.

So one teacher was arguing that you shouldn't make students change seats for exams, because making some of the students move disrupts a little bit of their memory, because they learned the material sitting in one spot in the room, so ideally you want to test them in that same spot.

The other said it should be enough that they're in the same room, and that they don't like other teachers who have students take exams in other buildings entirely.

They went on to discuss things like using scented candles or handing out gum or tic-tacs during difficult topics and during exams specifically to spark the memories of their students on hard subjects.

Anonymous Thu Sep 21 09:37:46 2017 No.9182469

>>9182313

Don't get me wrong, I read a lot concerning learning in my spare time, but of course I'd miss something. Retrieval-based learning is this thing I had so far missed.

I just wanted to point out that here it is completely up to the students to check the current scientific literature. This stuff is not taught and you don't need it to pass. From talks to other students I have gathered that I am actually one of the very few that scour the web for any kind of research into learning and am certainly the only one of my peers that also looks into neurological research for this. It simply isn't fostered at my university.

I also seem to be one of the few that frequent reddits /r/teaching and similar subreddits (inb4 plebbit) and go into contact with teachers worldwide.

The funniest thing is, that I am currently doing an internship at school and multiple teachers are actually looking at the science and are incorporating it. They are also the most vehement critics of the university - but from my point of view, their classes are the best I have seen so far.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 21 10:06:36 2017 No.9182491 >>9182469 So as a Tutor what things would you recommend for students regarding studying? Any tips and tricks?

Anonymous Thu Sep 21 10:57:09 2017 No.9182559

>>9182491

Well, in short, after reading this thread:

Do retrieval-based studying instead of any other method, but make it your own.

Don't underestimate motivation - if you are motivated, studying will not feel like work but more like fun (you'll notice the work you did when you suddenly fall asleep the minute your head hits the pillow in the evening).

Make a study group. Studying is way more fun this way (and often way more efficient - less time spent looking stuff up as someone probably understands what you didn't and can explain it to you). Also, laughter helps, so joke around a bit about the material.

Give yourself time (i.e. take breaks). Don't study on an empty or a full stomach and ffs don't drink those shitty energy drinks (no sugary drinks ever if possible).

Exercise. Sleep enough (sleep hygiene is completely underrated, especially with students, but also more and more with pupils)

From a teaching side:
I will never give homework, as there is no evidence of it helping anyone understand the material.
Mistakes are not only fine but absolutely necessary to learning. A "good" mistake can really bring the entire class forward by leaps if explicitly made open to everyone (which must not result in shaming).
When there is some argument in the atmosphere, it must be dealt with before returning to the subject matter. This stuff is poison for learning - also goes for your own studying, but can be hard to deal with (try studying when you've just been dumped or your grandpa died yesterday).
I try to create what we call a "cognitive conflict" - an unexpected break from expectations - to engage students.

Basically, the idea is to not just impart knowledge but get people to get a real insight into a topic.

I'm not sure all of this is clear, I was freely translating a lot from German and some are German learning / teaching models and theories.

Anonymous Thu Sep 21 12:34:11 2017 No.9182748
File: 121 KB, 686x568, 1469146444786.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>9182305
>There are elements to scholarship that are crucial to your success but NOT study-related

I would point you to the OP >>9152271
The question being discussed here is
>What's the most efficient way to study?

Also,
>Your argument is fundamentally invalid.

Pick up a textbook on logic. The argument from empiricism is completely valid.

Retrieval practice coupled with spaced repetition beats *all* other studying methods. If you want to counter-argue that, why don't you give me the equivalent of 10 years' studies by at least two well-respected labs, which is exactly what was used to set up the original argument in favour of retrieval practice?

Conclusion: Don't talk about shit you have no idea about.

Anonymous Thu Sep 21 12:45:32 2017 No.9182768

>>9182748

desu the studies say that those 2 methods are great methods and not the best methods. Those studies don't say that retrieval practice + spaced repetition are the best, just better than conventional ones. Maybe there is another better one out there?

Anonymous Thu Sep 21 12:56:00 2017 No.9182785

>>9182768

Not to shit on you or anything, but how many of the studies have you read? They have compared retrieval practice with pretty much every method used by students. Re-reading, graphing, concept maps (*without* retrieval practice when making the map of course), probably highlighting too, and god knows what else.

Besides, it is the cognitive process of retrieving memories, not some motor action (such as handwriting notes or highlighting) which causes the learning.

Finally: even if there are better methods out there, the literature still hasn't discovered them - I'll go with empirical, randomised, controlled studies, with actual applications in the classroom (if it wasn't Karpicke it was one of the other studies I read while doing this research, but again, I think it was one of his postdocs) instead of some memer on 4chan going "Well, what has always worked for ME... "

It's totally not anecdotal evidence with a sample size of 1 you guys!

Anonymous Thu Sep 21 13:26:33 2017 No.9182834
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>>9182785
>There are students, right now, re-reading the same thing over and over without thinking about them, hoping to do well on their tests

Do they never stop to consider the nature of what they're doing?

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 21 14:18:45 2017 No.9182916 File: 225 KB, 1106x962, anecdotal evidence.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9182834

Anonymous Thu Sep 21 14:26:29 2017 No.9182923

>>9182916
I took a Sleep and Health course once and every week, we discussed new topics on the impact of sleep on the domains of biology or psychology. Every week there was a new topic and we had to read 3~5 research papers on that particular area. It was for two and a half hours that we discussed them as a class when we met.

WITHOUT FAIL, all but maybe 3 people out of 20 would constantly talk about their grandma, or their uncle, or their friend, blah blah blah, about their experiences with sleep deprivation or medical interventions. My professor lost her fucking shit. "No! NO MORE ANECDOTES. We talk about the research paper and concepts! Do not tell me stories about your family."

The very next person: "My boyfriend works late nights and..."

It was comically terrible. That was one of my favorite classes though. Sleep is 100% rad.

Anonymous Thu Sep 21 14:31:11 2017 No.9182931

>>9182923

I have students who in twelfth grade are completely unable to retain anything I teach them. Once I asked the boy how much he slept on average and he told me "about two hours a night".

I went home horrified that day and am now firmly of the opinion that sleep hygiene and general health must be a subject in school. These people throw their future away to play video games and watch netflix.

I play video games, and I watch Movies and shows but never in my life would I prefer any of these things to sleep.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 21 14:53:32 2017 No.9182971 What's the use of studying when your IQ isn't high enough in the first place?

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 21 16:06:06 2017 No.9183068 >>9152271 SwrSveg < Math Discord server

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 21 16:23:52 2017 No.9183105 >>9154945 >>9154938 kek

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 21 18:49:10 2017 No.9183375 >>9182469 >Reddit Well, that explains this entire thread.

Anonymous Thu Sep 21 22:12:06 2017 No.9183800

>>9182559
>I will never give homework, as there is no evidence of it helping anyone understand the material.

I have trouble believing this.
From a STEM or Arts perspective, making students practice outside of class must help their understanding. Sure, maybe self-directed, self-motivated study is better than mandatory homework, but there must be SOME use to compelling students to work on subjects outside of class.

>>9182748
>The question being discussed here is
That was 300 posts ago. The subject has shifted a lot since then. And besides, you can easily argue that these other topics are all necessary supporting elements to effective studying.

>Pick up a textbook on logic.
Spoiler: I've contributed work to textbooks on Logic and Critical Thinking.

>Retrieval practice coupled with spaced repetition beats *all* other studying methods. If you want to counter-argue that, why don't you give me the equivalent of 10 years' studies by at least two well-respected labs, which is exactly what was used to set up the original argument in favour of retrieval practice?

This is explicitly not the topic being discussed. You're moving the goalposts without justification, making a strawman of me, and then trying to put unreasonable constraints on my replies.

All to avoid acknowledging that things like sleep and nutrition are critical to effective studying.

I'm guessing you're in intro to philosophy? Put in a few more semesters and then try again.

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/sci/ - Science & Math