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/sci/ - Science & Math

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File: 22 KB, 490x450, CT_Scan.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9093546 No.9093546 [Reply] [Original]

Do CT scans cause cancer?

>> No.9093551

>cause
doubt it
>contribute to lifetime radiation exposure
yes

>> No.9093594

>>9093551
>contribute to lifetime radiation exposure
What's the significance of that though?

>> No.9093601

Yes they do, a lot more than an ordinary x-ray.

>> No.9093608

>>9093546
It is better to avoid unnecessary scans

>> No.9093615

>>9093546
if you need one it's way more likely to be useful to your life than cause cancer

so just weigh your options

>> No.9093646
File: 70 KB, 985x545, 356653.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9093646

>>9093546
>have neurofibromatosis
probably, but then again just about anything will and it's 100% inevitable
>don't have neurofibromatosis
no

comparing to background rates which are ~3 mSv per year, a CT is not significant, a head CT giving off about 2 mSv for perspective.

Think about it like this. Those doses I just mentioned are whole body doses. Your head in a CT scan isn't actually receiving 2 mSv, that would probably be dangerous. It's receiving the equivalent of a 2 mSv full body dose, which is something like .02 mSv.

Think of it like this even: I want to drown you with just a bucket of water. Which will drown you faster, pouring the bucket all at once over your head (CT) or pouring it equally over ~250 days over your head (annual background radiation AKA what you receive just by existing)... neither will drown you.

Talk to any imaging physicist and they'll explain it in a very detailed way why it is insignificant. tl;dr you need double strand breaks, and x-rays just don't do that in these doses.

TL;DR pic related

also

>smoking
>drinking
>obesity
>diabetes
>bad diet
>no exercise

These will harm you more than a CT and we have mountains of studies/data to show that, but yes scans are probably done more than they need to be, mostly on children, and it's a waste of time and money.

>> No.9093666

>>9093646
>tl;dr you need double strand breaks, and x-rays just don't do that in these doses.
the question is not whether dsbs happen but whether the body can cope with them. an x-ray will cause a dsb period, it's just that a certain level of dsbs are normal in the body

>> No.9093681

>>9093615
people get them for stupid reasons all of the time just walking into the ER saying their head hurts or they're nauseous after hitting their head etc...
>>9093666
>it's just that a certain level of dsbs are normal in the body
sure but that's the whole can of worms. nobody cares about that, just whether or not it will kill them.

>> No.9093696

>>9093546
Rates since 1975 have not increased even when millions of people every year have gotten scans since 1980 and that'a when the doses were higher than now, so no. If they were that dangerous, we'd see significant increases after ~40 years now.

>> No.9093733

>>9093615
I think whether or not you need one varies from country to country. I'd say it's a coin toss in the US.

>> No.9093768

>>9093733
>I'd say it's a coin toss in the US.
I hit my head and went to the ER and they said i'd be okay. I started having more nausea and sort of light-headedness and went back a few days later and they gave me a head CT and nothing was indicated, sort of lame. I wish I didn't bother but from what I've read it isn't a real concern. It weirds me out that they gave me a CT scan because I just walked into the place and said I had nausea and stuff though. WAY too easy to get one for a lame reason. It's not like I had hit my head and had a piercing headache or something, or blacked out, or had a seizure. I regret it. The USA gives them out like they're taking your blood pressure.

>> No.9093787

>Mentioning CT scans on /sci/
Run while you still have the chance

>> No.9093797

>>9093787
We had like 30 to reply limit threads with gigantic multi-paragraph replies and big arguments just last year.

>> No.9093799

>>9093797
Even worse than that, you're going to summon that retard.

>> No.9093801

>>9093799
the lung cancer guy was more annoying.

>> No.9093805

>>9093787
>>9093797
it's silly though because >>9093646 and >>9093696 is totally correct

>> No.9093807

>>9093801
Yes, THAT retard.

>> No.9093813

>>9093801
>>9093807
these are different people. lung cancer anon was probably a meme after a while

>> No.9093819

>>9093813
I wouldn't be so sure, he spent all his time badgering actual doctors and spamming support groups.

>> No.9093848
File: 87 KB, 1134x1333, radiation.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9093848

You would need 14 chest scans in one year to have increased cancer risk. Pic related.

>> No.9093854

>>9093848
>posting the meme chart
here we go...

>> No.9094974

>>9093848
t. no idea what i'm talking about

>> No.9094982

>>9093848
How many bananas can I suck before I get radiation poisoning. I only do one succ per banana and drink only warm water to keep my mouth moist

>> No.9094991

>>9093848
pretty sure maximum yearly dose for radiation workers is 20, not 50.

>> No.9095003

>>9093546
I did one of these on the brain and the guy got pics of it like it cut my brain every 1inch, horizontally and vertically. I also moved a little so it was a little longer than usual.
How deaded am I?
When my cancer arrives?
t. at last not clinically retarded

>> No.9095006

>>9095003
it takes slices of your brain at 5 or 7 cm.

>> No.9095038

>>9093546
Almost as much as you.

>> No.9095068

The dumbest thing about CT scans is that MRI are superior in almost every way and don't pelt you with radiation. It's why most health organisations outside of America now use MRI primarily.

>>9093854
>>9094974
Genuine question: What is wrong with the chart, bearing in mind the caveats that chart itself mentions?

>> No.9095086

>>9095068
>Genuine question: What is wrong with the chart, bearing in mind the caveats that chart itself mentions?
50 mSv is not the annual limit for a radiation worker. it's 20 mSv PER year. If you go to 50 mSv, that's for a 5 year period, I think. the chart is posted in every one of these threads and we already know the doses so it's just a meme and doesn't answer any questions.

also, CT is superior in its speed and resolution. Really, modern CT scans are very quick(~10 second scan time for my head CT) and utilize "optimized dose" technology blah blah's to make it as minimal as possible. A few CT scans in your life isn't going to kill you. Radiation therapy and multiple CT scans on very young small children are the real concerns.

>> No.9095087

>>9095068
>It's why most health organisations outside of America now use MRI primarily.
wrong. nobody going to the ER is getting an MRI.

>> No.9095090

>>9095086
Someone should make a corrected image, just for /sci/

I'd say that the image is useful for a ball-park idea of radiation doses though, especially if you're talking to someone who doesn't understand radiation doses.

But, I understand where you're coming from.

As for the CT stuff: Fair enough. Technology moves on I guess.

>> No.9095130

>>9095090
>especially if you're talking to someone who doesn't understand radiation doses.
most of the people arguing in these threads have no idea anyway.

>> No.9096668

>>9095003
>When my cancer arrives?
never, you will probably die of heart failure.

>> No.9096686

>>9095003
>>9096668
News everybody, I'm going to do another one next week. It looks like I probably had brain aneurysm.

>> No.9096692

>>9096686
what are you talking about, lots of people have aneurysms but they don't rupture.

>> No.9096695

>>9093546
Potentiate it, depending on individual physiology. Any contrasting agent is likely more risky.

And it's of course trivial when compared to pulsed fields at microwave frequencies, like wifi and cell phones. As well as ELF from power lines, battery packs, transformers, etc. It's mainly the microwaves though.

>> No.9096698

>>9096695
>And it's of course trivial when compared to pulsed fields at microwave frequencies, like wifi and cell phones. As well as ELF from power lines, battery packs, transformers, etc. It's mainly the microwaves though.
oh, fuck off already.

>> No.9096705

>>9095068
MRI uses radiation and activates voltage gated calcium channels during some phases.

MRI has to be pre-cleared. CT will be used universally on sudden admissions.

>> No.9096708

>>9096698
No, because I'm right. And you're afraid of the truth. You're afraid of losing your toys and you're afraid of having to accept that you're trapped.

You are only fear.

>> No.9096709

>>9096705
>activates voltage gated calcium channels
>>9096708
No, you're a fucking nutjob. Nobody is "in fear". Stop giving yourself power with your retarded theories.

>> No.9096716

>>9096709
Elaborate on how I'm a "nutjob". We'll go from there.

>> No.9096725

>>9096705
>MRI uses radiation and activates voltage gated calcium channels during some phases.
this is true, and you can tell it happens because every muscle in your body locks up simultaneously and you lose consciousness

>> No.9096729

>>9096725
That's not what L-type calcium channel activation does, nor how the body works in general.

>> No.9096773

>>9096692
I had a sudden pain where I couldn't even stand up or anything at the gym. I explained it all to the doc and he asked for the exam I described before. Then I went to another doctor after doing that exam and he just wants to make sure it wasn't an aneurysm since it's the worst possibility.

>> No.9097107

>>9095068
Lol MRI's are not superior in every aspect.

As mentioned by posters above, when time is of the essence, even for yourself, if someone needed a scan to identify life threatening hemmorhage and its source, would you opt for 1-2 minute scan time or 1-2 hour scan time

>> No.9097118

>>9096716
I would, but there's really no point in elaborating anything to a nutjob like you, sorry.

>> No.9097270

>>9096708
>>9096716
>Cellphones and microwaves are bad for you
I think I've seen you here before. Do explain how non ionizing radiation and the miniscule amount of microwaves from a cell phone are going to cause any significant problems.

>>9096705
True, but MRIs are non-ionizing.
>Voltage gated calcium channels
Oh boy it's you again. Hi!

>> No.9097276

>>9096705
>MRI uses radiation and activates voltage gated calcium channels during some phases.
Yes, you are retarded.

>> No.9097280

>>9097276
>>/sci/?task=search&ghost=yes&search_text=voltage+gated
This is who you're arguing with. He's emotionally invested in RF being bad for you, to the point where it's almost certainly pointless to argue with him or point out how he misinterprets his sources, since he'll return once the thread 404s and pretend it never happened.

>> No.9097289

>>9097280
I remember him, he is probably unironically wearing tinfoil hats while replying in these threads.

>> No.9097292

>>9097289
There's lorentz force acting on you RIGHT NOW

>> No.9097592

>>9096729
Ah, so it only opens up some very specific subset of voltage gated channels?

You do realize how stupid a premise that is, right?

>> No.9098399

>>9097118
>I would
If you could.

>>9097270
>>9097276
>>9097592
Refer to:
>>9096962

>> No.9098407

>>9098399
Refer to:
>>9097828
>>9098220
>>9098405

>> No.9098415

>>9098407
Refer to:
>>9098399

>> No.9098417

>>9098415
Why do you lie to yourself? What is the purpose?

>> No.9098453

>>9098417
I'm a brutal realist. I've been broken, stripped down, withered, and rebuilt so many times that there is very little ego and hedonism involved in my value system. I'm only interested in how the universe, and reality, actually work. I've had the benefit of being an outsider and watching how people work, a lot of the errors in perception, reasoning, and perspective become traced out. What biases people develop and why. How they can change states, how they can be influenced, why.

Do the smart thing, and actually use me for something other than discomfort. I don't feel at all pretentious stating that I'm an outlier, and that you likely wouldn't want what it takes to get there. I won't be around forever.

>> No.9098463
File: 51 KB, 500x517, 1500862825515.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9098463

>>9098453
ah, you're meme-tier autistic.

>> No.9098474

>>9098453
She didn't want to be your valentine, or what's the story here? Something worse? She didn't want to go to the prom with you?

>> No.9098482

>>9098453
>there is very little ego and hedonism involved in my value system.
>im only interested
>i've had the benefit
>do the smart thing
>I don't feel at all pretentious
>i wont be around forever
wew lad take a perma break from life

>> No.9098512

>>9098474
Symptoms of MS starting ~12. My whole body would feel raw and burn, mind would go dull, blood pressure would drop in the heat. Would come and go episodically, but left no sign of lesions.

Scoliosis of the spine, jaw problems. Damage to the trigeminal nerve leading to type 2 trigeminal neuralgia (burning) ~15-16.

Failure of the digestive system. I cannot eat most food, and at this point even what I "can" eat, I often do not want to. I have watched people eat while starving, sometimes for many days, while still performing at a reasonable level. There is "food" everywhere, but nothing to eat. Again, compromised motility seemingly as a consequence of nerve issues.

It doesn't show, and historically I would simply omit the bulk of the truth. Over time this is the same as building and living a lie. You begin to become terrified of plans made during more functional windows of time, and try to cram everything into one block. I keep it to myself, probably because I am weak and afraid of that kind of visibility and any subsequent connection based on it. This all among myriad other things I managed to appear half functional through. Everyday you go to sleep knowing there is nothing but how you'll struggle through tomorrow. Everytime you think of escape, there is no exit. You think of going somewhere else and know it will not afford becoming something else, the body remains. Now, as I have made (possibly illusory) progress with my digestion, my thyroid has failed. It is massively enlarged and not producing much of anything, least far as T4 goes.

Coupled with my overall psychology otherwise, it does something to you. People that have never lived with chronic pain or shit that has crippled you to the point where all you've got is apathy and a desire for something to finis you off, can't really be expected to understand. It is not so bad anymore, in a lot of ways. But you don't realize how it shapes your every thought, habit, plan, and interaction.

>> No.9098519

>>9098512
Ultimately, it is desire that shifts most. Your value system shifts. I don't really have much for external needs, or signals I need to spur other people to emit so that I can achieve X state for Y reason. It simply isn't there. And neither am I, in a lot of ways.

People's theory of mind tends to frame that incorrectly. It makes sense.

>> No.9099549
File: 50 KB, 1280x720, maxresdefault (6).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9099549

>>9098453
>>9098512
>>9098519