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/sci/ - Science & Math


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8239470 No.8239470[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Where can I learn about race from an unbiasedly perspective?

>> No.8239473

biology & genetics books

>> No.8239476

>>8239470
Just take whatever /pol/ says and reverse it. >>8239473

>> No.8239477

>>8239473
Any recommendations?

>> No.8239484

>>8239476
>derailing threads by bitching about /pol/
back to >>>/r/eddit you fucking mongoloid.

>> No.8239498

>>8239477
Depends what you wanna know specifically. There are thousands of research papers out there detailing the history, differences, bone&muscle structure, genetic traits of different races.

>> No.8239513

>>8239498
Basic understanding of how race effects intellect and behavior

>> No.8239519

>>8239470
Here, let me give you a crash course

White people are bad.
Everyone is else is good until proven otherwise.

If you want an example of when a PoC can be described as bad is when you see, for example, a black man agreeing with white people. The technical term there is that he is ignoring intersectionality and becoming a good uncle Tom for the white devil.

Just to clear it up, white people can be assumed to be bad and they cannot prove that they aren't. Everything a white person does that can be described as good can also be assumed to be a mere act.

Now you know all you need to know.

>> No.8239528

>>8239470

You don't. Everything and everyone is biased in some way. The trick is to develop critical thinking skills that will allow you to recognize the biases of anything you encounter, and take that into account to make your own decisions.

>> No.8239668

>>8239513

And there it is.

>> No.8239677

>>8239513
I doesn't. Culture effects intellect. Now fuck off back to /pol/.

>> No.8239685

>>8239668
>>8239677
SJWtard nazis begin to invade your thread to oppress your right to learn and dictate your thoughts with their weak buttmad memes. You got two choices, either ridicule them or simply ignore them.
now have a nice day OP :^)

>> No.8239689

>>8239677
op asked for an unbiased perspective. Holy shit, why is it impossible to discuss things like this without people assuming political intentions and getting emotional?

>> No.8239706
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8239706

>>8239689

Their agenda is to slide and derail your thread with their SJW memes and mislabeling everything so you engage in their shitposting train rather than learning the info you need.

Simply ignore these retards and don't get sucked into their science hating stupidity.

Use google scholar and search for genetic traits, prefrontal cortex, IQ among races and whatever more you need. You'll definitely reach some useful papers on what you're looking for.

>> No.8239711

>>8239689
Yes that's what the consensus says on race/intellect. Essentially, given similar socioeconomic status and education, people of different races preform about the same on IQ/Act/Sat/gre

>> No.8239724

Biologically, there are some very slight, very minor differences in the capabilities of each race that for the vast majority of humans will not be truly limiting in what they're capable of in comparison to others.

Culturally however, most races are complete fucking shit. This is the part ruining the world.

>> No.8239730

>>8239689
Sure you can. Read the studies of James Watson. He is the person who discovered the DNA and pioneered it's research which gave him a nobel prize. His studies are purified from any political agenda and purely factual.

http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2007/10/james-watson-tells-inconvenient-truth_296.php

>> No.8239751
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8239751

>>8239711
> given similar socioeconomic status and education, people of different races preform about the same on IQ/Act/Sat/gre

Why do you lie? What's the point?

>> No.8239758

>>8239677
>>>8239513
>I doesn't. Culture effects intellect. Now fuck off back to /pol/.
Uh, even the into psych class at my liberal uni admits that intelligence is highly heritable. You fuck off back to /lgbt/

>> No.8239765

>>8239751
You sure showed me up I was wrong. Bet you feel like a big man don't you, big man with a big penis huh?

>> No.8239771
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8239771

>>8239730
>Tells people to read his research about old school genetics.
>Links a blog post talking about informal opinions and commentary in the context of social science.
t. shitposters et al. (2016)

>> No.8239772

>>8239751
See what I mean ? Posts like this : >>8239765
are designed to derail the threads and make you engage with their science hating shitposting.

Use google scholar and search for genetic traits, prefrontal cortex, IQ among races and whatever more you need. You'll definitely reach some useful papers on what you're looking for.

>> No.8239778

>>8239751
Holy shit, why do black people suck at everything like that ?

>> No.8239780

>>8239706
>chart detailing a hypothesis from before modern genetics was a thing.

>>8239751
>social science studies

/pol/ is literally retarded.

>> No.8239781

>>8239780
>pol this pol that
ssshhh BLM is that way >>>/r/eddit

>> No.8239792 [DELETED] 

>>8239781
Fuck off back to >>>/pol/ retard

>> No.8239793

>>8239772
I'm not the guy this moron is responding to but scholar.google is actually a good resource and there are some notes worth making about his claims.

>You'll only find biology papers (social science doesn't count) on races from early 2000s and before because that shit got BTFO as soon as people actually began to understand human genetics.
>Population genetics is actually worth reading up on but populations are not races and you should actually read and understand the methods section of the paper if you want to make inferences about it.
>Modern studies on stuff like IQ are studied in two different ways. One way is via shit tier social science papers where people are given a questionnaire that asks "what race do you feel like today? [ ] white [ ] black". These social science papers have nothing to do with genetics and approach race purely as a social construct (because it's social science, get it?). The other type of papers you'll find talking about stuff like IQ are molecular psychology papers. These papers do look at genetics but they don't look at races. Rather they come up with polygenic scores (a metric that looks at a lot of genes to give some score, often genome-wide polygenic scores are used as well) that guess some measurable characteristic (EduYears for instance measures education years). These papers are far more rigorous than the usual social science paper but they're still fairly limited in the sort of inferences you can make about them. As always read the methods section of the paper.

>> No.8239797

>>8239792
Is that what you BLM rapists resort to ?
stay in your jail >>>/r/eddit

>> No.8239811

>>8239513

Mein Kampf is what you're looking for.

But in all seriousness, race doesn't exist. It is social construct, not a biological or scientific one.

>> No.8239814

>>8239797
Go back to /pol/

>> No.8239818

>>8239758
>intelligent parents probably value intelligence more and will want to pass that off to their children
How do people actually control for this effect and then claim it must be "muh genetics"?

>> No.8239820

>>8239706

Lmfao he asked for unbiased research, not the scientifically ignorant

>> No.8239822

>>8239751

Correlation is not causation dipshit

not to mention the huge cherry picking fallacy

>> No.8239825

>>8239758

Inheritable through nurture and nature are two very different things.

>> No.8239829

>>8239751
Nothing here actually draws a genetically causal link between intelligence and race. The closest is the Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study but even that had multiple interpretations.

>> No.8239832

>>8239818
>>8239825
Actually they do. Typically using twin studies.

>> No.8239841
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8239841

>>8239751
I haven't seen one refutation against this so far. Why do black people always suck at IQ, SAT, GPA, graduation rates and basically anything that requires intelligence ?

If their intelligence is the same as anybody elses, why can't they ever fix their shit ? Why were they living in tribes, spreading shamanism and HIV, eating dead animals organs thinking they have magical powers, constantly massacring each other over turf wars, enslaving and selling their own people while whites were building their cities and sicovering the world around them ? Why can't they overcome their low intelligence from creating a shitty culture world with no welfare or civility around them, even when they're left on their own ?

>> No.8239845

>>8239781
>>>/pol/

>> No.8239853

>>8239845
>>8239814
>>8239792
People envy whites this much ? wow I guess I hit the jackpot ;)

>> No.8239912

This thread went from bad to shitfest real quick

>> No.8239987

>>8239841
The easily domesticated animals in Europe made their advancement much faster.

At one point Europe was also tribes doing retarded shit but they quickly got out of that phase by advancing their economies with easily domesticated animals.

Fun enough, in the 21st century europeans themselves have become the domesticated animals for their black superiors, handing us the pussy they have hunted for us to crush while they masturbate their tiny spear in a corner.

So thank you white people, for building a liveable world and then giving it to us for free.

t. man of color who has taken the virginity of various young white women and then left them all so that you cucks can handle whatever shit becomes of them

>> No.8240108

>>8239513
It's cute when /pol/ attempts to brainwash /sci/

>> No.8240109

>>8239689
>pol
>unbiased
Pick one

>> No.8240115

>>8239841
>constantly massacring each other over turf wars
Oh, the irony

>> No.8240140
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8240140

> Where can I learn about race from an unbiasedly perspective?

You don't because it's like trying to learn about "time" from an unbiased perspective.

If you choose to pursue and invest into the truth about the topic, the core concepts behind it appears to be so far removed from the current public knowledge of it that you start to realize how nonsensical it is.

And no I'm not talking about "muh time is an illusion" meme bullshit either.

>> No.8240206

>>8239841

They have done all that.

Absolutely everyone originated in africa..

>> No.8240555

>>8239470
History of the Roman Empire and the down fall of western society from the start of Eastern European immigration into the US. Also try "we was kings nd shiiit even tho we use Ebonics an disrupt learning environments and are responsible for 70% of homicides in countries where we minorities n shit.

>> No.8240581

>>8239470
The social issues of race or genetic differences?
If social issues look into critical race theory, contemporary issue texts, any history book.
If you mean differences on a biological level, read into prehistory, human migration, anthro shit

>> No.8240603

>>8239706
>>8239730
thanks. interesting.

>>8240109
never said that. but people who dismiss discussions with stupid buzzwords are just as likely to be biased and emotional

>> No.8240611

>>8239811
>It is social construct, not a biological or scientific one
I keep hearing this. But is this true? I mean there are clearly at least phenotypical differences. You wouldnt say different dog breeds are just a social construct

>> No.8240615

>>8239751

>>8239841
funny, still no refutation. Only emotionally charged butthurt passive aggressiveness.

>> No.8240627

>>8240615
because it is a complex issue with thousands of variables, the answer to which is not simply "black people are dumb" as many keep insinuating

>> No.8240628

>>8240611

it is in part true, yes. the common conceptions of race are mostly socially constructed. an example is how we classify most races by skin color, when in fact the underlying biological reality shows us that the "subraces" of the human race are determined by several genetic traits. if we were to classify race based on who has the sickle cell gene (which is actually beneficial in some regards, in certain regions etc) then you would have light skinned and dark skinned people in the same race.

if im not mistaken, there are anywhere from 2-32 different races, depending on how you look at it biologically/genetically. also, i think theres a project trying to determine every genetic race trait that exists so as to determine the true number of races taking account of every trait, instead of focusing on one.

>> No.8240632

>>8240627
They are dumb regardless of the reasons. You trying to justify it shows your clear bias with zero scientific basis. Rest of us simply show you how bad they do compared to all other races.

>> No.8240634

>>8240611

one more thing. we don't say different dog breeds are a social construct because we haven't tried to use "dog race" as a means to marginalization/systemic oppression. there are no social power dynamics between us and dogs (save like, mans best friend etc). the reason we say our understanding of race is a social construct is bc we have constructed these ideas that cover up the biological reality and those ideas have very real consequences in the world, even though they may not be necessarily accurate or true at all

>> No.8240636

>>8240632
>They are dumb regardless of the reasons
Except some of them are obviously not dumb. You may want to check your own biases before accusing others.

>> No.8240637

>>8240632

you're a troll but, what is white supremacy for 500 points. when you hold down an entire group of people for centuries, and continue to shit on them to this day, of course they are going to "do bad" compared to others (white people). the fact that you condemn them for what an oppressive group did to them in the first place is, frankly, stupid.

>> No.8240638

>>8240634
Well the term race would mean they can't breed with other races, but we can. Correct terminology is subspecies.

>> No.8240639

>>8239470

everyone in this thread should read this

http://discovermagazine.com/1994/nov/racewithoutcolor444

>> No.8240641

>>8240636
Some of them are not. But the minority among them don't define their norm
>>8240637
I'm not white you imbecile. Aren't you tired of being constantly wrong ?

>> No.8240642

>>8240638

yea. that too. thanks

>> No.8240644

>>8240641

i didn't say you were white. also good argument. you dropped every point i made. ill take this reply as a concession.

>> No.8240645

>>8240627
Yeah, sure. But people could explain this correlation instead of getting pissy

>> No.8240647

>>8240645

you should already understand this shit desu

>> No.8240651

>>8240644
Your points aren't close to being accurate. nobody is held down. If your argument made sense Africa would have developed just as good as anywhere else in that time, but they were living in huts, destroying their environment and massacring each other over nothing.

>> No.8240655

>>8240645
There are too many variables to say definitively what it is. You can point to economic circumstances (less money->worse education->lower perceived intelligence) or environmental variables like lead concentration in the blood (higher in African Americans than other American ethnicities) but in the end, no one here has enough expertise to make a definitive statement so people just default to whatever supports their worldview.

>> No.8240660

>>8240651

you just proved me even more right. do you know any history at all? like, at all? about africa? africa has been fucked by white people for a long fucking time. you just gave literally the best example of my argument

>> No.8240662

>>8240628
>depending on how you look at it biologically/genetically
Oh sure. This is really a thing troughout biology/taxonomy. Still dont see how it is a social construct, tho

>race" as a means to marginalization/systemic oppression
Thats what I always figured. People want to avoid the term "race" when it comes to humans, because it is politically/historically charged. But I dont think it is a good idea to dismiss the concept entirely, just to not hurt any feelings. I dont think we have to lie or use euphemisms all the time in order to feel connected.

>> No.8240664

>>8240637
Why do asians do so good then compared to others (white people)?

>> No.8240670

>>8240664
Slave mentality and pushy parents.

>> No.8240672

>>8240664

because those people actually give a fuck about learning and have rigorous highschool programs unlike the us which is full of snobby privileged brats that give no fucks about learning but instead go to college to enter the workforce and be wage slaves. tl;dr culture, get some faggot

>> No.8240674

>>8240662

when we say its a social construct we dont mean that it is purely a social construct. its both. some of our understandings of race are for the most part socially constructed, others are empirically know. if everyone understood race in terms of genetics and biology there would be no racism. thats why its socially constructed.

>> No.8240675

>>8240660
How could they be fucked completely by evil white people if they had the same potential to develop? I mean. as the first white people came, they were already less developed

>> No.8240682

>>8240647
No, not really. Since nobody seems to be able to answer simple question, I have to assume I am not the only one who isnt sure about these things.

>>8240655
I agree. I understand, that it ultimately boils down to "Why are they poor?" or "Why are they not as educated?"

>enough expertise to make a definitive statement so people just default to whatever supports their worldview
yeah. At least, thats what mostly happens

>> No.8240686

>>8240675

less developed according to whom? do you have any idea what cultural evolution is? how far we've advanced our understandings of different cultures? the stage of "development" of a culture is determined by how well they adapt to their environment. if you look at the westernized world, we aren't adapting to shit, we're driving ourselves into the ground.

and again, how are you not getting this. they had the same potential but have been and continue to be fucked. thus eliminating that potential.

microwaves and rockets are not the only fucking thing that is important in this world. there are over 6000 languages being spoken today, only half are being taught. each one of those languages encodes an entire set of knowledge about all aspects of the world. we are systematically erasing that wisdom.

>> No.8240694

>>8240670
>>8240672
So, you can be succesfull through your own strength despite being a minority and oppressed in the past. So the whole "its not black peoples fault for doing bad in relation to other groups" seems like bullshit and intrinsically racist

>> No.8240695

>>8240686
>defending niggers

They should be killed everyone one.

>> No.8240697

>>8240694

"in the past" -- what? white supremacy is still a thing. it's just more covert, and you are a prime example of why.

also the example you gave is in no way racist. you are thinking on a surface level.

>> No.8240700

>>8240674
Well that makes it horribly misleading to say "race is just a social construct". Just there are common misconceptions and people attribute things to rce, that should be attributed to culture doesnt make the concept of race entirely social

>> No.8240702

>>8240697
It's not just white supremacy anymore, it's general racial supremacy (mostly against black people). The Chinese and Arabs are pretty bad for it too.

>> No.8240703

>>8240700

yea, "race is just a social construct" is not accurate.

but also not all sociocultural understandings of race are necessarily "misconceptions" but i get what you're saying

>> No.8240705

>>8240702

true, but even those people are affected by white supremacy

>> No.8240714

>>8240686
>less developed according to whom?
Ok, lets not get into a semantic argument here. Less developed in terms of technology and culture.

>but have been and continue to be fucked
Yeah, now read my post again. If people could fuck them so easy, they were clearly at a disadvantage to begin with. Why?

>microwaves and rockets are not the only fucking thing that is important in this world
no. but what has this to do with anything?

>ach one of those languages encodes an entire set of knowledge about all aspects of the world
I'm not sure you know how language works. If I could describe an apple in all languages of the world, my knowledge about the apple wouldnt change because of this. and again, why do you bring this up?

>> No.8240719

>>8240697
>white supremacy is still a thing
oh boy. It doesnt play a big role. Black people have the same rights as everybody else
And yes, people who truely believe that black people are just held down by evil whites are racist.
And if "white supremacy" is such a big factor, then again: why do asian people do just fine?

>> No.8240724

>>8240714

its not really semantic though. how people adapt to the environment is technology and culture, so my point still stands


well, language isn't just words used to describe objects. it's a lot more complicated than that as im sure you know. it is literally everything.

have you ever heard of wade davis? he's a very prominent ethnobotanist. one of the first i think, he was a pioneer. he lived with an amazonian tribe for a while and saw that they were making dmt out of a certain combination of plants among literally thousands upon thousands of plant species surrounding them. he, as a pioneer of ethnobotany, a harvard graduate, could not see the botanical connections between the plants that could produce dmt. they said "we thought you knew about plants." he asked them how they knew and they said " the plants speak to us."

this is my way of explaining to you that our uses of tech/science are not the only ways of constructing models of the world, and that cultural evolution is largely relative

>> No.8240731

>>8240719

uh, yes it does. just because a piece of paper says some shit doesn't actually mean anything. how can you even say that poc are viewed the same as white people.

you can't be racist against white people. you're confusing racism with racial prejudice. as a white person, even if you call a black person a nigger, you're still never going to get turned down a job because you're name sounds black. there is more to racism than just thinking a race is inferior. most of racism is unconscious social understandings/behaviours. most of racism is in sociocultural power dynamics, not worldviews.

and asians may do better than some other races, but they are still severely oppressed, mostly by whites. this is most likely because they are lighter skinned, and thus can pass as white. this is called colorism.

>> No.8240740

>>8239470
Stop trying /pol/.

I'm just as right wing as you OP, however I come to /sci/ to talk about math and science. Not /pol/ things.

>> No.8240741

>>8240724
>how people adapt to the environment is technology and culture
Yeah and I brought up semantics related to "less developed". I am pretty sure one can judge this to a certain degree objectively, based on the complexity and effectiveness of the technology and cultural interaction. This is not about how noble, good, peaceful are good to the environment a culture is.

>that our uses of tech/science are not the only ways of constructing models of the world
Ah, Ok sure. I misunderstood you then. Yeah, most of the time an experienced, well equipped scientist wont beat a local when it comes to certain things

>> No.8240743

>>8240731
>literally SJW arguments
I refuse to believe you are not trolling

>> No.8240747

>>8240660
>everything africans done is actually ebil white reptilians fault
The most obnoxious, spoiled and retarded argument in history. congrats

>> No.8240748

>>8240743
>you are wrong because my alt-right internet friends mock your views
not an argument

>> No.8240752

>>8240664
because the sample used for the Chinese is the upper middle class that score much higher than the peasants. The samples used in Europe cover all classes of society. The real East Asian average IQ is about 100.

>> No.8240753

>>8240702
Nobody likes black people. And this won't change unless black people change.

>> No.8240754
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8240754

>>8240731
2/10

nice try

>> No.8240757

>>8239470
every single thing under nature exists as part of a spectrum within a set; a set of numbers, a set of colors; do you ever see a rainbow missing colors?; human "differences" reflect this; skip over any number as you count from 0 to 9 and you've counted incorrectly; nature doesn't skip numbers or leave anything out; every possibility is entertained given enough time; and there is infinite time.

>> No.8240760

>>8240753
*me and my angry internet friends don't like black people
ftfy

>> No.8240763

>>8240752
I meant in the same country (US)

>> No.8240767

>>8240748
>you can't be racist against white people
>evul white people
0/10

>> No.8240768

>>8240760
*me and my white genocide loving friends like black people
And nobody else loves primitive, racist, sexist, HIV spreading, gangster, rapist, ebola people. Only diseased minds like you do.

>> No.8240769

>>8240747

okay. refuse to educate yourself. stay stupid

>> No.8240771

>>8240767
Not even him, using SJW as an adjective is cancerous behaviour.

>> No.8240772

>>8240769
>every fault and crime commited by africans is white peoples fault !!!11!
I am sooo educated right now :^)

>> No.8240774

>>8240772
Ignoring history just to spin some racial supremacist narrative is pretty dumb.

>> No.8240778

>>8240774
Referring todays problems to 150 year old history just to push a genocidal agenda is pretty dumb.

>> No.8240781

>>8240778
>genocidal agenda
How do you figure that?

>> No.8240787

>>8240771
I would normally agree, But he literally used stereotypical SJW narratives.

>> No.8240789

>>8240781
The identity and culture of both black and white people will be completely destroyed and all is left will be some brown vague shit.

>> No.8240793

>>8240789
So not actual genocide then?

>> No.8240795

>>8240793
>Genocide (From Greek: Γενοkτονία) is the intentional action to systematically eliminate an ethnic, national, racial, or religious group.
Anything resulting with no more white people or black people is the definition of genocide.

>> No.8240797

>>8240795
>no more white people or black people
Except white and black people are not forced to breed with each other. White people and black people will be around for a very long time, stop being so hyperbolic.

>> No.8240804

>>8240797
Every small step is a step towards full scale assimilation. It's stupid to ignore it.

>> No.8240817

>>8240804
>just think about it bro
Believe what you want, be careful of apophenia though.

>> No.8240821

>>8240817
I'm wondering if black people would adapt to cold northern countries and turn white like russians and nordics

>> No.8240824

>>8240821
Maybe, given enough time. Our environments are very different to what they were though, there's a lot less selective pressure than there was ~50,000 years ago.

>> No.8240826
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8240826

>>8240804
>>8240797
human form develops elsewhere; interbreeds over eons; a rather grey-ish color emerges; no more fighting; get bored; explore space; wear cool goggles; prank noobs

>> No.8240830

>>8240826
Why would we lose the brown color and irises though ? huge beady eyes and pale dark skin would imply we would be living without light for a very long time

>> No.8240832

>>8240830
> wear cool goggles
idk i'm just having fun

>> No.8240841
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8240841

>this entire thread

>> No.8240851

>>8240841
That pretty much sums up my frustration with this topic.

>> No.8240854

>>8240841
> we're all the same
> race is a social construct
Can't have it both ways m8

>> No.8240859

>>8240841
black people do worse on tests, must be because they're just not as smart as everyone else, oh what's that? No there couldn't be hundreds of other causes that could lead to this. Yes black people just are not as smart.

This is /sci/ The data suggest whites preform better than black, but we don't why this is. Saying "because blacks are more stupider than whites" is not an an answer to results that could have any number of confounding variables.