Electroconvulsive Therapy

[Anonymous No.14848558]

>only "Works" for half the patients
>causes brain damage similar to dementia
>memory loss, people forget names, faces even how to play musical instruments
>dramatic drops in intelligence
>sometimes doesn't even help the patient, it just fries their brain
>is hardly regulated
>patients that complain are often ignored and are administered it without their consent
>they don't understand how it works.
Is this true? and why?!

[Anonymous No.14848560]

Sorry, I meant to post this

[Anonymous No.14848580]

>>14848558
>Is this true? and why?!

Psychiatry is just a cloak for psychopaths to mislabel 'torture' as 'medicine'. Always has been.

In 50 years Psychiatry will be remembered with a greater disdain than geocentricism.

[Anonymous No.14848589]

>>14848558
CIA therapy.

[Anonymous No.14848597]

>>14848580
Psychiatry isn't going away any time soon. If you can charge an insurance company 300 bucks for a bottle of drugs that cost 2 bucks to make, you can cash in big time.

[Anonymous No.14848608]

>>14848558
>patients that complain are often ignored and are administered it without their consent
You really think we'd have hobos shitting on the streets if you could still do that in states?

[Anonymous No.14848617]

"Trust The Experts" starter pack:

Evil spirits? Drill holes in your skull to let them out.

Pneumonia? Let leeches suck your blood until you faint.

Worst plague in human history? Wear a raven mask with flowers stuffed in the beak.

Hearing voices? Slice some pieces off your brain

Depressed? Jam a fork into a wall socket.

Your son likes My Little Pony? Castrate him.

Bad flu season? Put the entire planet under house arrest.

[Anonymous No.14848826]

>>14848617
>Evil spirits? Drill holes in your skull to let them out.
Didn't cave men do that for brain swelling?
>Pneumonia? Let leeches suck your blood until you faint.
Never heard them using leeches for that
>Worst plague in human history? Wear a raven mask with flowers stuffed in the beak.
They ever know it was from flees?
>Hearing voices? Slice some pieces off your brain
Yet people complain all we do is chemically cut thier brain so we're still barbaric by thier definition.
>Depressed? Jam a fork into a wall socket.
Isn't electro therapy sometime used for severe cases with visable brain wave issues?
>Your son likes My Little Pony? Castrate him.
Yes. I'd say the same for pedophiles so they don't have to die and no kids need to be raped.
>Bad flu season? Put the entire planet under house arrest.
Depends how bad. Turns out it was just cold+ but if it turned into a black plague event they'd probably gun down anyone outside.

[Anonymous No.14848883]

>>14848597
>If you can charge an insurance company 300 bucks for a bottle of drugs that cost 2 bucks to make, you can cash in big time.

What if all of the western medical scheme is demonstrated to be fraudulent? What if someone were clever enough to bring it all down?

>Captcha: HRTTW

[Anonymous No.14848886]

>>14848558
Knew someone who was doing that. After each "treatment" she had to be in a wheelchair, could only talk at about 5 words per minute, and more than once shat herself in front of other people.

[Anonymous No.14848930]

>>14848608
There's no money in treating hobos. Even if you can get them covered by Medicaid the reimbursement rate is hardly worth it. The mental hospitals that used to hold them were state hospitals, they mostly don't exist anymore.

[Anonymous No.14848969]

>>14848558
LOTS of INCELS and SCHIZOS in this fucking thread, holy shit.

Take your meds, people.

[Anonymous No.14848977]

>>14848969
here's your meds

[Anonymous No.14848986]

>>14848883
>What if all of the western medical scheme is demonstrated to be fraudulent? What if someone were clever enough to bring it all down?
It's been fraudulent for decades but anyone who pipes up is just called names and the grift goes on.

[Anonymous No.14849008]

>>14848558
Here's a bit of writing from Artaud, the French schizophrenic playwright who spent a lot of time living in asylums:

"I’ve seen only those who have been terrorized by the method, incapable of recovering their egos.
Who has gone through the electroshock... never climbs up again... and life has slipped a notch."

t. /lit/ tourist

[Anonymous No.14849122]

>>14848597
psychiatrists and ps****logists are going away this century.
Before my days are done.
Help is welcome.

[Anonymous No.14849247]

>>14848558
>it's only used in schizo shits without hope of recovery
ftfy

[Anonymous No.14849252]

>>14848826
I wish it were the black plague, a treatable disease that requires a shot of penicilin. For the people who died it was a virulent disease that came from the other side of the world which ended their lives in 4 days, you could make plans over the weekend and not see them finished.

Of course, to the idiots who lived it was an inconvenience. This shit could have been contained if governments had been responsible from the start and contained the disease strictly as soon as identified, including cancelling flights for a mere couple of weeks. This fiasco was all political irresponsibility masked with the typical inane bickering from midwits.

[Anonymous No.14849298]

>>14849252
>STILL thinks it's possible to beat a disease by hiding in the basement
>calls anyone else a midwit
Even NZ eventually gave up on that shit.

[Anonymous No.14849305]

>>14849298
Scorched earth tactics. Or do you think the disease is some magical curse?

[Anonymous No.14849307]

>burn down civilization to stop the flu
we truly live in the most batshit period in human history

[Anonymous No.14849311]

>>14849252
While i dont believe in floyd-19 i always said governments should do a hard lockdown of about 1 month. You get told in advance and you stash 1 month of food. No one leaves or enters. Personnel at utilities companies (water/electricity) also get locked down but in their plants. Oil and gas workers get restricted movements in their production zones.
All international travel stops and no exceptions for diplomats or Jwb creators.
This should have made Covid go extinct. The flu will never go extinct as it has animal reservoirs.
This was never done. Always shitty partial lockdowns, international travel at half-strength. It was a joke, the same NPCs that went along with the terror also justified how lax it was "oh we must not exaggerate of course you can't stop the economy lets stop half only"

[Anonymous No.14849312]

>>14849311
>these are the people calling you fascist and authoritarian

[Anonymous No.14849349]

>>14849311
Who would win?
>A government enacting totalitarian policies that completely halts freedom of movement and transport for all its citizens for an entire month, including its own energy sector and diplomatic missions, to curb a virulent but otherwise pathetically weak disease
vs.
>The three chads in every neighborhood who inevitably found a way around the restrictions to drink beer together

[Anonymous No.14849350]

>>14848558
>Is this true? and why?!
It was true a century ago. Of course it's not true nowadays.
Modern electroconvulsive therapy is done under anesthesia, with muscle relaxants, it has minimal short-lasting side effects, it is clearly regulated, it has no negative effect on intelligence and it is rarely used, mostly in cases of drug-resistant severe depressions when literally nothing else works.
>they don't understand how it works
We've used general anesthesia for 180 years and only very recently began to understand how it works.

[Anonymous No.14849363]

>>14849350
Fucking shills again with the diversion tactics. Every hot thread is the same technique.
>ECT doesnt work
>Actually they use anesthesia
A few posts from now they will be faced with technical questions about ECT. They wont answer but will say "itas easy just google it" and "its not my job to educate you". Followed by posts insulting anyone not going along intersped with very short posts insinuating arcane knowledge (in greetext) such as
>uh what is action potential?
Every single time

[Anonymous No.14849379]

>>14848617
>Evil spirits? Drill holes in your skull to let them out.
Modern science don't do that. But humanity was already doing that in prehistory. Humans always were superstitious retards before science. And anti-science people still are.
>Pneumonia? Let leeches suck your blood until you faint.
Modern science don't do that.
>Worst plague in human history? Wear a raven mask with flowers stuffed in the beak.
Modern science don't do that. You're talking about a time where we thought that diseases were caused by humors or miasmas.
>Hearing voices? Slice some pieces off your brain
Modern science don't do that. But modern religious people still practice exorcisms, sometime injuring or killing people.
>Depressed? Jam a fork into a wall socket.
Modern science don't do that. Electroconvulsive therapy has nothing to do with being electrocuted and is used in very specific cases.
>Your son likes My Little Pony? Castrate him.
Modern science don't do that. But /pol/ made you believe it.
>Bad flu season? Put the entire planet under house arrest.
That was the best thing to do for a pandemic, especially at the start when there was a lot of unknown. Go read about the spanish flu and what happened when it came back after the first wave. Viruses are unpredictable and the first strain of Covid was way worse than a 'bad flu'.

Don't you understand that what "medicine" was in the middle-ages isn't what we call "science" ? Modern science is based on evidence. At the time everything was based on beliefs.

>>14849363
Shut up and go educate yourself. You don't know anything about psychiatry and obviously never worked with mentally ill people.

[Anonymous No.14849389]

>>14849379
>Shut up and go educate yourself.
Right on cue. Seethe and cope shill, your diversionary tactics are too common to work.

[Anonymous No.14849425]

>>14849379
>*this* time the experts have their shit together
>children definitely aren't being groomed into trannyism by parents and teachers, which is why the left explodes in outrage any time someone tries to ban it
>children being "transitioned" is just a conspiracy theory
>a media fear campaign and some "unknowns" are sufficient reason to flush the psychological and economic health of the planet down the shitter
Please continue to spend your life writing insane walls of text on the internet, as it will prevent you from ever doing anything that might affect the real world.

[Anonymous No.14849690]

>>14848558
physical psychiatry is based. the 1949 nobel prize was for the discovery of lobotomy. psychiatry went to shit on the same pattern as the rest of the sciences.

all the pharma shit being peddled to you now is simply the cheaper, shittier, seemingly less spooky replacement for physical methods

[Anonymous No.14849700]

>hey does ANYONE NOTICE THAT PSYCHIATRIC METHODS DON'T WORK?

No, anon. You are not the first person to recognize this. The entire field is a fraud. There is no basis for most medication administered by a psychiatrist. SSR*s are a scam. ( I censor it because I am fairly certain bots will shit the thread up if they detect a key word). The mechanism of action is not understood, nor is it even theoretically sound, yet they are the most prescribed medication in the world.

[Anonymous No.14849763]

>>14849349
The three chads in every neighborhood are negligible to the threat of foreign introduction of the disease through logistic lines. This shitshow told us a lot about the incompetence of the entire governing structure. It's pointless to police the three outliers so strictly to the point of pushing them around and causing their friends to go against the measures just to defy the authoritarism, but the people who enforce those measurements are too fucking stupid to understand that, and the people making the decisions do not know a lick of medicine either, nor are they interested in learning. They were just told "bad things will happen so you do something about it" and they did it so miserably they failed to contain the shit and lost the trust of the masses at the same time.

[Anonymous No.14849772]

>>14849379
Delta covid was one of the worst fucking things to happen to mankind. I actually expected something like that to happen, it's the natural history of an epidemic. As a virus mutates you can't really predict a lethal strain wont show up, and when it does it kills and fades away. I fucking hate everyone involved in public health for not speaking strongly for this possibility.

[Anonymous No.14849776]

>>14849763
And yet all it takes is one of those chads being a carrier, and your month-long quarantine was utterly pointless.

[Anonymous No.14849789]

>>14849700
>Get depressed over heartbreak
>Go to psych
>First thing he does is become my bro, tries to cheer me up
>Im too much of a whiny bitch
>Tells me to take vortioxetine, has minimal side effects he says
>take the stuff for a year
>by the first month I stop feeling like shit, but I don't feel happy either. An improvement really. No physical side effects noticed.
>Year ends, no more recurrencies. All the time feeling nothing makes me think rationally about everything
>Month after that I finally feel content with my life, feel happiness again and I know what to expect from people. Literally can't be sad anymore
Psychiatry changed my life for the better. This was almost a spiritual experience. I know there are limits to the people who are already fucked, but they are far too defective. I visited psych hospitals as a med student and the chronic schizos devolve into animals, people there literally treat them as human pets, that's as much life as they can get.

[Anonymous No.14849809]

>>14849776
My words fall into deaf ears, but in principle it was much preferable to narrow the odds of spreading and mutation, expecting a perfect execution is unreasonable and that doesn't justify doing nothing at all.

Isn't the whole principle of "herd immunity" to statistically lower the chances of infection of a handful of reluctants? As long as the first strain was controlled you could have set watch over the disease and quarantine it locally as detected, provide logistics through the military, think of it as training for a siege.

[Anonymous No.14849840]

>>14848558
I've had ECT maybe half a dozen times. It really damaged my memory, and I don't remember much of the years around 2012. Other than that, I don't think it did anything. I don't know if it harmed my IQ or not. It certainly didn't help in any way. If ECT does work on some, maybe it is precisely that memory loss. There are many things I personally would want to forget. If that hole in my memory were placed in 2006, I really might be doing far better mentally.

[Anonymous No.14850093]

>>14848986
>It's been fraudulent for decades but anyone who pipes up is just called names and the grift goes on.

Everything ends.

[Anonymous No.14850102]

>>14849789
>chronic schizos devolve into animals

That's the anti-psychotics.

They diagnose them without seeing them. Prescribe them without ever doubting for a second. They lie about the side effects. Anti-psychotics are known for many debilitating side-effects.

You have a biased view because of your training and your spiritual experience.

My experience with the psych hospital was spiritual too. When I asked for a book to read while waiting for court, I was given, 'Miss Peregrine's Home for Peculiar Children'. In it, the villain turns out to be the protagonist's psychiatrist, who is really a demon in human form.

That describes the lesson of my spiritual experience there. Haloperidol is known to cause more harm than good, yet it is forced upon thousands.

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2009/jan/15/us-homeland-security-illegally-drugged-immigrants-for-deportation/

[Anonymous No.14850247]

>>14849789
Yeah I knew one of you retards would show up.

[Anonymous No.14850503]

>>14850247
How is he a retard?

[Anonymous No.14850515]

>>14850503
Because your personal experiences with SSRIs don't mean diddly dick.

[Anonymous No.14850529]

>>14848617
>Evil spirits? Drill holes in your skull to let them out.

[Anonymous No.14851159]

>>14848580
I see it more as alchemy, just massive extrapolations from what we think we know about psychology and neuroscience. Sometimes alchemy does stuff though, but its just shots in the dark

[Anonymous No.14851173]

>>14849772
> Delta covid was one of the worst fucking things to happen to mankind.
???????????????
You must be joking.
Fucking retarded fag.

[Anonymous No.14851186]

>>14849349
>The three chads in every neighborhood who inevitably found a way around the restrictions
You’re thinking of homosexuals and black people, who are above the law in America and Europe.

[Anonymous No.14851192]

>>14848558
>>only "Works" for half the patients
It's literally more effective than any pharmaceutical "treatment" for depression, and yes it is still bad. Every single treatement for depression and several other mental disorders using drugs is less effective than spending an hour outside in nature every day.

[Anonymous No.14851212]

>>14848580
sadly this

[Anonymous No.14851285]

>>14849379
since is allways settled until suddenly there is new science settled rendering the before science invalid
but allways trust the science

[Anonymous No.14851290]

>>14849379
>Modern science is based on evidence. At the time everything was based on beliefs.
the line is thinner than you might think

[Anonymous No.14851325]

>>14849379
>Modern science don't do that.
>repeats this blatant falsehood 7 times in a row like the obsessed and brainwashed drone that he is

[Anonymous No.14851349]

>>14850515
Ok. Then counter it with stats since he wants to counter you. Showing results beats him instantly and shuts him down.

[Anonymous No.14851503]

I wonder if TMS will be seen as bad as ECT down the road. Some awful stories of permanent damage, tinnitus, and being turned into an NPC basically:https://www.madinamerica.com/2020/04/tms-damaged-my-brain/

Guess that's what happens when you induce massive currents over huge sections of brain haphazardly with a machine operating on principles like a Tesla era electrotherapy box

[Anonymous No.14851581]

>>14851186
True. As evident by pridepox.

[Anonymous No.14851613]

>>14848558
Better than locking you up in an asylum and throwing away the key, which was the prior alternative. Take your zaps schizo.

[Anonymous No.14851645]

>>14851503
Isnt this the machine that shuts down the racism nugget?

[Anonymous No.14851663]

>>14849307
>burn down civilization
what the fuck are you even on about?

[Anonymous No.14851672]

>>14849311
>This should have made Covid go extinct. The flu will never go extinct as it has animal reservoirs.
So does Covid.

[Anonymous No.14851673]

>>14849776
One person cant be a carrier if its isolated. Carrrying implies contact with others. If three friends on the same neighborhood get together they are still isolated. Its only when each of them also meets other people that also meet other people.
You dont need lockdown so hard at the level of individuals. Locking down neighborhoods should have been enough, if no one at a neighborhood has Floyd for 1 month it means the virus doesn't exist inside. Doesn't matter if neighbors get out and visit each other.

[Anonymous No.14851707]

>>14849789
>wait a year
>get over your heartbreak
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[Anonymous No.14851708]

>>14848580
Yep. Hang them all and make all the drugs OTC.

[Anonymous No.14851710]

>>14850102
What else are they going to do with you mate? Before antipsychs there was only ECT, and before that padded cells and institutionalisation. Be realistic about your condition.

[Anonymous No.14851718]

>>14849789
>be so incompetent you think relationship grief is depression
>take a placebo
>it works
>use this as justification to mass lobotomize lower class people
Most sane med student

[Anonymous No.14852106]

>>14851710
>What else are they going to do with you mate?
>Be realistic about your condition.

See? You can diagnose a stranger you've never met and be sure that harmful anti-psychotics were necessary.

Because the alternative is that your entire vocation is unethical and evil.

When I can clearly explain I do not want the medication because I do not agree with the diagnosis that was made without even meeting me. When I can clearly explain I know these drugs cause harm. When the psychiatrists lie about how frequent 'side-effects' occur.

I'm being realistic. I was not mentally ill, nor am I now.

You can see it here. The majority opinion is that your vocation, and your drugs, are tools of oppressive evil.

Now you must rationalize why you spend your time reading the opinions of a board that thinks psychiatrists are demons.

[Anonymous No.14852116]

>>14851718

I think my favorite part is that using pills to numb yourself to your romantic attachments is viewed as rational and humane.

Don't learn how to cope with grief. Don't ponder the meaning of relationships and what went wrong. Just use drugs to stop caring about someone you once felt deep love for.

That's what medicine is for! Destroying the bonds between human beings.

[Anonymous No.14853261]

>>14848930
Not him but I believe he's talking about the root cause of why people end up on the street, not fixing them after their downfall.

[Anonymous No.14855789]

>ECT is......LE BAD
Reddit, the thread.
ECT, ketamine and MAOIs are the only things that treat depression. Many of the reasons OP gave against it are exactly why it's therapeutic.

[Anonymous No.14855910]

>>14848558
>only "Works" for half the patients
What works better?

[Anonymous No.14855928]

It's only for people with chronic severe depression. To the point where they don't really function. That or some other shit. It's not something they give out for lols or because your dog died recently and you are kind of sad. Similar to a lobotomy. They still do them just last option if all other therapies failed.

[Anonymous No.14857018]

bumo

[Anonymous No.14857029]

>>14855789
>Many of the reasons OP gave against it are exactly why it's therapeutic.
So brain damage, memory loss, and intelligence loss are good things?

[Anonymous No.14857056]

>>14848558
>>only "Works" for half the patients
According to what study? Modern RCTs comparing to SSRIs in a population of people who aren't suffering from MDD but simply self reporting they are le sad meanwhile have active lives and do things? Modern studies are very biased and the population diagnosed with depression generally doesn't have it.
>>causes brain damage similar to dementia
It causes acute injury and the recovery from it initiates neurogenesis and increased neurotransmission.
ECT has been suggested for dementia and trailed in Alzhiemers as a treatment.
>>memory loss, people forget names, faces even how to play musical instruments
Unlikely with modern therapy where the amperage is lower and unilateral modalities exist. Even if it happens it's actually deseriable as depressed patients generally have no lives and no memories worth having in the first place. If it could erase the pain of financial loss or the death of a loved one, it's even better.
>>dramatic drops in intelligence
Its insignificant and studies prove otherwise. Intelligence is often the cause of depression as a high IQ person stuck working a menial job will find his exertions as non rewarding and a dulling of neurotransmission follows to prevent phyric exertion of the organism. Most intelligent people would be much happier having a lower IQ especially if they can't use their intelligence in a meaningful way. Besides the premise is faulty as deficets in intelligence are not to be found long term.

>Longer term, with a wide range of follow-up intervals (2 weeks to 2 years), there was no evidence of impairment in tests of non-memory cognition.2 The only caveat to this may involve the use of sine wave ECT machines
>>is hardly regulated
It's highly regulated and demonized by regulators.
>>patients that complain are often ignored and are administered it without their consent
>>they don't understand how it works.
1/2

[Anonymous No.14857060]

>>14857056
>It causes acute injury and the recovery from it initiates neurogenesis and increased neurotransmission.
There is no recovery. It's essentially a frontal lobotomy.

[Anonymous No.14857068]

>>14849247
>and the verdict comes from random gender studies psychiatrist phd that is actually mentally ill himself
ftfy criminal

[Anonymous No.14857069]

>>14849311
yeah i mean sure you can try

[Anonymous No.14857080]

>>14851672
Was going to say this. By the time the public knew about SARS-CoV-2, it was here to stay.

[Anonymous No.14857084]

>>14849379
Wrong,
1. modern science castrates you (gender enfirming surgery whatever it is)
2. claims transsexuality isnt mental illness (2012 illlness list edit lol)
3. chemical lobotomy (literally disable part of functionality in whole brain)
4. estrogen pills in disguise (shit meds picking with dangerous side effects that are ignored)
5. make people vegatative at random (new methods turn out to be huge mistake, lobotomy, then chemical, look next point)
6. the reasons are purely "opinion" without hard evidence (people have their life ruined via "getting health" from sociopathic freaks in disguise)

[Anonymous No.14857090]

>>14849700
They're purely money based scam, pills and medicine is CHEAP AF to make but they put really extra % on them, even though the whole process is mechanical at this point

[Anonymous No.14857091]

>>14855789
Depression has no identifiable neurobiological or genetic cause but I do not know enough about it to really make convincing arguments.
The diagnosis of depression was rare and temporary before someone came up with Prozac in the late '70s/early '80s. Now, suddenly everyone has it and it's lifelong for some reason, just like ADHD which wasn't considered a lifelong condition 20 years ago. Anyway...

I know people who are hooked up on anti-depressants and regularly go to psychiatric clinics because their depression 'acts' out. From what I heard it's mostly because these people lower their dose and now, I assume have to deal with the withdrawal effects.
You have to wean off that stuff for months or even years. The withdrawal symptoms are just ludicrous and I really suspect, much of what is currently diagnosed as depression or adhd is really nothing more than symptoms of drug addiction. ECT doesn't work. It also causes identifiable brain damage.

[Anonymous No.14857097]

>>14850503
hes a faggot, going to psychotrist over heartbreak?
spoiled child at best, 1 year wait was literally getting over it, it wasn't the pills

[Anonymous No.14857100]

>>14857060
Lobotomy causes permanent IQ losses of 10 points on average . ECT doesn't. Lobotomies were imprudently used in low IQ people which made them vegetables. Average or intelligent people were less intelligent but had significant improvement in severe mental illness.

[Anonymous No.14857104]

>>14849840
i bet you'd love to hear that also in 2012 the tranny freaks called drag queens became fully legalized and no longer treated as mental illness. Groomers were let free while someone literally shocked your brain over what? I don't even bother to ask, it's clown world

[Anonymous No.14857107]

>>14857056
>It causes acute injury and the recovery from it initiates neurogenesis and increased neurotransmission.
Again, this would presuppose that 1. the cause of depression is an identifiable neurological issue and that 2. neurogenesis would actually occur. However, to claim that a non-localized electric shock has healing properties by stimulating neurogenesis is completely bonkers
>Even if it happens it's actually deseriable as depressed patients generally have no lives and no memories worth having in the first place. If it could erase the pain of financial loss or the death of a loved one, it's even better.
This is laymen understanding of depression. Depression isn't sadness. Depression is a state of constant lethargy and passivity where the person feels... nothing.
>Intelligence is often the cause of depression as a high IQ person stuck working a menial job will find his exertions
Incidence of depression doesn't correlate with IQ and 'high-IQ' people are socioeconomically better off and subjected to less stressors.

[Anonymous No.14857110]

>>14857091
ECT works
SSRIs do not.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HBsVLOX7s7M
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ufOlSNZIUro

[Anonymous No.14857111]

>>14852116
Literally someone at one point thought:
"What if i used painkillers on my brain?"
Then forgot about the healing part

[Anonymous No.14857112]

>>14857110
Is that you?

[Anonymous No.14857116]

>>14855928
The problem is you advertise electroshock as working, you fool these people into believing it will help them, you abuse people in need with your stupid methods

[Anonymous No.14857120]

>>14857112
No.

[Anonymous No.14857127]

>>14857110
>Evaporating your neurons at random with hundreds of volt shock directly to brain with ireversible effects including IQ loss and memory loss
>Better than drugging your neurons with tons of coctail of chemicals as if you're engine that needs oil replaced, softly lobotomizing you and making you drug dependent
yeah whatever completely sane person

[Anonymous No.14857142]

>>14857100
Studies show that the disconnectivity from the frontal cortex by ECT can be long lasting and that IQ loss can be significant.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/pdf/10.1073/pnas.1117206109
Our resultsshow that ECT has lasting effects on the functional architecture of the brain. A comparison of pre- and posttreatment functional connectivity data in a group of nine patients revealed a significant cluster of voxels in and around the left dorsolateral prefrontal cortical region (Brodmann areas 44, 45, and 46), where the average global functional connectivity was considerably decreased after ECT treatment (P < 0.05, family-wise error-corrected).

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/advances-in-psychiatric-treatment/article/memory-and-cognitive-effects-of-ect-informing-and-assessing-patients/DD5C63934357779765BA7ADF308275AE
>A third asked people whether they had experienced a loss of intelligence ‘soon after the treatment’, and about 40% answered affirmatively (they were not asked whether the loss persisted) (Reference Philpot, Collins and TrivediPhilpot et al, 2004). However, former patients have publicly testified that ECT can result in a very significant (>30 point) permanent decrement in IQ score (Food and Drug Administration, 1982; Reference AndreAndre, 2001; Reference CottCott, 2005: p. 5) and have documented the claims by extensive neuropsychological evaluation.

>Although surveys and case reports are not rigorous controlled trials, in the absence of such trials conducted months or years after ECT, they provide a basis for inferences as to the treatment’s permanent adverse effects and possible mechanisms of action.

[Anonymous No.14857168]

>>14848617
>Evil spirits? Drill holes in your skull to let them out.
Trepanning was therapeutic and reduced neuro inflammation.
>Pneumonia? Let leeches suck your blood until you faint.
Stimulates white blood cell production to fight infection.
>Worst plague in human history? Wear a raven mask with flowers stuffed in the beak.
Filtered the air.
>Hearing voices? Slice some pieces off your brain
Actually worked.
>Depressed? Jam a fork into a wall socket.
Reddit simplification.
>Your son likes My Little Pony? Castrate him.
Homosexuals should be castrated.
>Bad flu season? Put the entire planet under house arrest.
Only example of baseless science and appeal to authority.

[Anonymous No.14857174]

>>14848560
Make Lobotomies Great Again.

[Anonymous No.14857178]

>>14857174
They actually worked. Just were overused.

[Anonymous No.14857276]

>>14857178
lol, nor you could tell that, nor the patient
because you couldnt see into his mind and he already lost his mind, this is peak jewish logical fallacy

[Anonymous No.14857344]

fify
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEZrAGdZ1i8&t=186s

[Anonymous No.14857478]

>>14857344
Interesting reading the comments. Very helpful for some, and a disaster for others. Pretty much in line with OP's post. It may be a worthwhile treatment as a last resort for someone who is depressed to the point of possibly suicide, but I'm not sure I'd approach it for anything less severe.

[Anonymous No.14857634]

>>14848558
>>only "Works" for half the patients
wrong
>>causes brain damage similar to dementia
wrong
>>memory loss, people forget names, faces even how to play musical instruments
yes, some memories come back
>>dramatic drops in intelligence
wrong
>>sometimes doesn't even help the patient, it just fries their brain
wrong
>>is hardly regulated
wrong
>>patients that complain are often ignored and are administered it without their consent
wrong
>>they don't understand how it works.
correct

Go research it for 1 minute you fucking dumbass

[Anonymous No.14857642]

>>14848580
Please name a better alternative than someone walking about stuck in psychosis burning through their bank, friends and running across train tracks

[Anonymous No.14857801]

>>14857634
You're wrong about almost everything you said was wrong, kek.

[Anonymous No.14857809]

>>14857642
There isn't. If you're going to kys you might as well get ECT. Simple as. First try keratamine and then MAOIs.

[Anonymous No.14857814]

Keep in mind ECT isn't really an alternative to anti-depressants, it's in addition to. Relapse rate is extremely high otherwise.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19703381/
>35% (7/20) of the patients with lithium and 57% (16/28) without lithium had a relapse within the first 6 months (OR 0.6) in a median of 2.5 months.

[Anonymous No.14857837]

Cure for depression?
Literally touch grass

[Anonymous No.14857974]

>>14848558
Funny how many misconceptions people strongly believes to be facts, like if otherwise one would put at risk their entire view of reality, with such passion you guys defend errors.

First of all, ECT is regarded by every decent physician as a last resort resource, when either everything else failed or you are in a strong risk of self harm like in a psychotic depression. It is quite regulated, just like any other medical procedure, it's often performed on an operating room with at least 2 or 3 physicians together with an anesthesiologist, it is basically like getting am appendectomy. It has the same morbidity and mortality rate as a minor surgery, so with modern protocols it is regarded as an exceedingly safe procedure, it is so safe indeed that it has no absolute contraindication, I've even seen pregnant women go through the procedure without any adverse effect, also consider the context of the patient we decide to perform ETC, severe refractory depression (An individual with an exceedingly high risk of suicide with rates of a new attempt even as higher as 75%), psychotic patients with an exceedingly high risk of self harm or harm to others, without mentioning that psychosis is very neurotoxic by itself if left untreated.

Another cringe misconception is that the technique is no better than placebo... in patients who are indeed psychotic or who are true refractory depressions it has a success rate of up to 85%, so it is indeed useful in selected patients, otherwise we wouldn't be using it already.

Now, one thing that must be agreed on is that it's true mechanism hasn't been fully elucidated yet... there are a few theories that seem to be backed up by fMRI, like the hyperconnectivity hypothesis in depression, ECT is a way of reducing those zones of increased connections, but nonetheless, it is a technique that has proven over and over again to be safe an effective given that you know what you are doing and in those who are candidates for such procedure.

[Anonymous No.14857980]

>>14857837
shroomie mcdoomie mcbloom shroom mushroom
tried them and it made me scared
i touch grass every day but i still have anxiety
shrooms are just gorilla glue for the brain so your eyes go crossed and you start seeing "insights" which are just bullshit

[Anonymous No.14857991]

>>14857974
>in patients who are indeed psychotic or who are true refractory depressions it has a success rate of up to 85%
In the first month after treatment, and medication is still required to manage their condition.

[Anonymous No.14858009]

>>14857991
Hallmark of a worthless treatment. Just want to inflict enough trauma on someone that they are hopefully kicked from whatever neurotic spiral they found themselves in.

[Anonymous No.14858020]

>>14857991
Medication begins its effect only after the first month, not before. No physician with basic education in medical science would decide an ECT on your first month unless you are either psychotic or your symptoms are so severe that your life is in imminent danger.

For conspiracy theories please refer to /x/

[Anonymous No.14858040]

>>14858020
>Medication begins its effect only after the first month, not before.
It's not medication, and it takes 2-4 weeks to complete the sessions. The absurd efficacy rate that's often quoted is based on short term data. I already provided the estimated relapse rate if anti-depressants are not prescribed after treatment. 57% not provided Lithium had already relapsed within the first six months, with the mean being 2.5 months.

[Anonymous No.14858051]

>>14858020
>>14858040
And have another, which looked at patients at the one year mark rather than only after the first few months.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5630095/
>Fifty of 62 patients who had achieved remission with ECT completed the one year follow-up period. Thirty-three patients (66%) had relapse/recurrence, while 17 (34%) patients remained in remission. The relapse rates were similar in patients with unipolar depression and bipolar disorders. The mean number of ECT sessions was higher in relapsed patients with bipolar disorders. Multiple episodes were more frequent in non-remitted patients with unipolar depression. Comorbid psychiatric diagnosis was higher in non-remitted patients with unipolar and bipolar disorders.

>The relapse/recurrence rate was found to be fairly high in the first year of follow-up in patients who had achieved remission with ECT. ECT decisions should be made carefully in patients with comorbid psychiatric diagnosis and multiple episodes as these are more risky. The ECT application procedure and successive maintenance treatment (maintenance ECT, pharmacotherapy, and psychotherapy) should be planned to sustain the remission for patients with mood disorders in long-term follow-up.

And here's your 80-90% efficacy claim again:
>The efficacy of pharmacotherapy in mood disorders is not satisfactory, and the desired remission rates are not currently achieved in either unipolar (UD) or bipolar disorders (BP) (1,2,3). Electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) has been used for a long time with successful response and remission rates; 80–90% of patients experience an improvement, and the efficacy of ECT has been established to be between 60% and 90% regarding acute response in treatment-resistant depression.

The fact is that ECT is only effective in the short term (the first few months, before the brain repairs itself) and then it's back to the standard pharmaceuticals.

[Anonymous No.14858058]

>>14849008
Based /lit/izen

[Anonymous No.14858074]

>>14858040
>>14858051

Another grand misconception of ECT... it is by no means a cure, currently there is no cure for severe depression passed certain point, neither for psychosis, neither of BD, it only returns you to a stable baseline where you can be functional and where you are not at vital risk.
ECT should be thought off as a "brain defibrillator", just as a cardiac defibrillator it doesn't cures you from heart disease but it sure helps you survive given you're in certain arrhythmias. But if pharmacology therapy is discontinued (just as in heart disease) there is no doubt you will relapsed. There is no mysterious secret here, it is a widely known fact.

[Anonymous No.14858090]

>>14858074
It's not a misconception, you (or another anon) claimed an 85% success rate, when the reality is all results are lost by one year (probably more like 2.5 months) for the majority if they aren't also taking pharmaceuticals. I provided another article proposing that side effects have likely been understated, and the severity of effects on the brain missed, by not properly testing patients afterward. Patients should be provided the true risks before accepting the procedure, and it appears they are not. Patients should be provided the long term efficacy rate of the procedure, and it's definitely not 85%.

>just as a cardiac defibrillator it doesn't cures you from heart disease but it sure helps you survive given you're in certain arrhythmias.
That's not remotely the same. You would say the defibrillator has a certain efficacy in treating the arrhythmia, but not the heart disease. However, ECT efficacy is claimed for depression.

https://utswmed.org/medblog/electroconvulsive-therapy-depression/
>ECT is approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and has been shown to be highly effective, giving some patients full reversal of severe depression symptoms. Overall, ECT is approximately 80 percent effective when a patient is a good candidate. By comparison, about 50 percent of patients respond to antidepressant medication.

That's my "grand misconception" when there's an article from an MD who flat out says it's 80% effective? Not that 80% see initial improvement, but that it's 80% effective.

I'm not saying ECT should never be used, but the benefit is being wildly overstated. It's a last ditch resort and only provides temporary relief with the risk of long term memory and intelligence loss.

[Anonymous No.14858155]

>>14858090
Intelligence is a burden if you can't use it.

[Anonymous No.14858190]

>>14858090
you are citing a paper with an n of 62 published on a Turkish journal with an IF of 1...
Try to find better sources of information like for example
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34265274/
With an n of 10000 and publish in a journal with an IF of 200.
> we found no evidence for a clinically significant increased risk for serious medical events with exposure to electroconvulsive therapy, and the risk of suicide was found to be significantly reduced, suggesting the benefits of electroconvulsive therapy for depression outcomes might outweigh its risks in this population.

> Concerns that ECT causes structural brain damage have been dispelled by multiple human and nonhuman primate studies / DOI 10.1056/NEJMra2034954
> Mood and psychotic disorders are chronically recurring illnesses. Therefore, continuation and maintenance treatment (with pharmacotherapy, ECT, psychotherapy, or a combination) are required for most patients who recover from an initial episode

ECT is BY NO MEANS A CURE, because of it, effectiveness is often referred as the capacity to resolve an acute episode of the disease, the effectiveness to maintain a baseline is totally different, either by drugs, ECT or a combination of both.
I will agree that this is often overlook and not well explained to the public, these are complex diseases of which we don't have a full understanding yet, a definitive cure is well beyond our reach with current medical knowladge, neuroscience is relatively new. Now, please do not overlook this effectiveness as just a plain number... a psychotic, maniac or suicidal episode are by definition psychiatric emergencies. And the analogy of the defibrillator is not far off. Your first objective when you are facing an emergency is to get the patient away from vital risk as soon as possible. something that can do that even in the short term, with an efficiency of about 85% is just an invaluable tool. Keeping the patient in a stable baseline tho is a whole other thing.

[Anonymous No.14858217]

>>14858190
>The primary outcome was serious medical events, a composite of hospitalisation for medical (ie, non-psychiatric) reasons or non-suicide death within 30 days from electroconvulsive therapy exposure or matched date in the unexposed group.

So a 30 day follow-up, which btw according to >>14858020 is really bad and no physician with basic education in medical science would do that.

The second study is paywalled and I don't feel like working around it. I'm totally fine with promoting ECT as a possible treatment in which other interventions have failed and the patient is teetering on the edge; and making it clear the potential consequences and that ongoing treatment will be required since ECT is only to reset to baseline for a few weeks or possibly months. Repeating ECT as a "maintenance" dose is concerning to me, I'm not convinced there isn't some mild brain damage with each treatment.

[Anonymous No.14858229]

>>14857107
>Depression is a state of constant lethargy and passivity where the person feels... nothing.
I agree with you on this. Depression is marked by anhedonia.

[Anonymous No.14858236]

>>14857107
>This is laymen understanding of depression. Depression isn't sadness. Depression is a state of constant lethargy and passivity where the person feels... nothing.
Yeah, which leads to having no life because nothing seems worth doing, which leads to meaningful memories, which means his point still 100% stands.

[Anonymous No.14858263]

>>14858217
lol, not a 30 day follow up. I thought you were talking about performing an ECT 30 days from the diagnosis of an initial depression

[Anonymous No.14858268]

>>14858217

> Repeating ECT as a "maintenance" dose is concerning to me, I'm not convinced there isn't some mild brain damage with each treatment.

Well... so far at least nothing has proven it does. They discuss that in here DOI 10.1056/NEJMra2034954 which is worth reading.

[Anonymous No.14858270]

>>14858263
Ah, I see what you mean. Misunderstanding.

[Anonymous No.14858307]

>>14857056
>. Even if it happens it's actually deseriable as depressed patients generally have no lives and no memories worth having in the first place

Imagine being this evil and arrogant. Anons should learn from this. Doctors will rationalize away literal brain damage as desirable, on your behalf!

Yes, I know a public defender currently dealing with someone who was given ECT involuntarily. But any brain damage is desirable! It's only because they have a mental illness that they don't have the insight to see the 'Doctor's' wisdom, even as they blatantly ignore the dictum to 'Do no harm'.

>Intelligence is often the cause of depression as a high IQ person stuck working a menial job will find his exertions as non rewarding and a dulling of neurotransmission follows to prevent phyric exertion of the organism

So instead of helping them find a better use for that intellect, you defend making them retarded.

>Most intelligent people would be much happier having a lower IQ

Why don't you do a trial on yourself and see if you're happier being a drooling retard?

But of course, you're a medical professional that is simply rationalizing your abuse of patients, and in the process demonstrating to all of /sci/ how evil western medicine truly is.

>Loss of memory, and intelligence is desirable *in people that are not me*.

Thank you for being so naively evil that I can use you to demonstrate to everyone else that indeed, Psychiatrists ARE demons.

[Anonymous No.14858316]

>>14857107
>Again, this would presuppose that 1. the cause of depression is an identifiable neurological issue and that 2. neurogenesis would actually occur. However, to claim that a non-localized electric shock has healing properties by stimulating neurogenesis is completely bonkers

I like how he defends giving them brain damage to promote neurogenesis, rather than simply giving them some Lion's Mane supplement.

But then, he's just a poor fool that paid a lot of money for a fraudulent education that prepared him to be a tool for evil men. Rather than face the fact that he has clearly dedicated himself to defending torture that has been re-branded medicine, he will continue to mire himself in further sin.

[Anonymous No.14858324]

>>14857642
>Please name a better alternative than someone walking about stuck in psychosis burning through their bank, friends and running across train tracks

Cognitive behavioral therapy. You know, use your words?

But then, I have found psychiatrists are basically incapable of normal human speech, so, maybe that explains things.

[Anonymous No.14858329]

>>14857974
>otherwise we wouldn't be using it already.

What, you mean like Haloperidol is used despite having a ~30% success rate and carrying vastly higher risks of many side effects?

>Now, one thing that must be agreed on is that

You're defending literal torture because your paycheck depends on it and you don't have any true sense of empathy or ethics.

[Anonymous No.14858337]

>>14857974
>safe an effective

Yes. Those Orwellian, focus group tested words you repeat without thought.

[Anonymous No.14858345]

>>14857974
look kids, someone who actually knows what the fuck they are talking about
you retards need to grow up and accept things

[Anonymous No.14858355]

>>14857634
>patients that complain are often ignored and are administered it without their consent
>wrong

I'm sure if you reflected on your own career, you would see it's true. You just deny this is the case, because nobody cares what someone that you've declared has a 'mental illness' says. The moment you make such a mighty diagnosis, the patient's behavior matters less than your lies.

[Anonymous No.14858358]

>>14858345
>someone who actually knows what the fuck they are talking about

You mean someone that has committed atrocious acts of torture numerous times and now must try to rationalize and defend such acts as not being as heinous as it clearly is.

>grow up and accept things

Yes, I've accepted that evil people lacking in empathy are drawn to positions of prestige and power. They of course, have no problem telling the most blatant lies about their behavior.

[Anonymous No.14858377]

>>14858337

[Anonymous No.14858405]

>>14858307
If someone is totally anhedonic they are dysfunctional to the point basic hygiene is neglected and if left alone will die.
ECT addresses this. It induces a seizure and the brain reorganizes itself with resulting neurogenesis and neurotransmission increases, sometimes to the point of mania.
SSRIs and CBT do nothing for such patients. Sounds like the public defender in concert with his client are being dishonest using ECT as an excuse for whatever crimes the defendant is accused of. Psychiatrists do want to help such patients, especially those willing to use MAOIs and ECT. Meanwhile society and everyone else hitherto that point are what failed them. The biggest external cause of true depression (total anhedonia, no motivation) from my observations is poverty and lackluster life. The brain sees no reason to stay active in such circumstances.

[Anonymous No.14858822]

Well, of it's so helpfull and innocent, why given in anesthesia if it doesmt hurt. It damages neurons, and on antipsychotics ithey wont recover. It's erasing memory, information stored in brain.

[Anonymous No.14858919]

>>14857974
>First of all, ECT is regarded by every decent physician as a last resort resource
It's also used as a punishment for unruly patients. It incapacitates them for two or three days because that's how long it takes for them to recover their memory.
> it is basically like getting am appendectomy
No, not at all. The artificial induction of seizures isn't like an appendectomy. It's really nothing but epilepsy and unlike regular epilepsies, this one is bound to destroy brain tissue.
>severe refractory depression (An individual with an exceedingly high risk of suicide with rates of a new attempt even as higher as 75%), psychotic patients with an exceedingly high risk of self harm or harm to others,
Again, here we see how the use of what effectively amounts to torture device with little to no proper scientific evidence is justified by helping people who want to 'harm' themselves. Knowing in-patient services, the notion of what is actually harm and self-harm is deliberately kept vague.
>without mentioning that psychosis is very neurotoxic by itself if left untreated.
Psychosis can't be neurotoxic. For that to be the case, psychosis would have to be something other than a behavioral symptom. Again, it's well proven that the neurodegeneration observed in psychotic patients is either due to a previously unidentified organic lesion, in which case psychiatry can't help anyway because it's not a legitimate medical profession, or caused by anti-psychotics and anti-neuroleptica.
>in patients who are indeed psychotic or who are true refractory depressions it has a success rate of up to 85%, so it is indeed useful in selected patients, otherwise we wouldn't be using it already.
Those who do not respond to ECT therefore don't have true refractory depressions? How is this argument circular?
>there are a few theories that seem to be backed up by fMRI, like the hyperconnectivity hypothesis in depression
Brain scans can't identify depression.

[Anonymous No.14858921]

>>14857974
>First of all, ECT is regarded by every decent physician as a last resort resource
It's also used as a punishment for unruly patients. It incapacitates them for two or three days because that's how long it takes for them to recover their memory.
> it is basically like getting am appendectomy
No, not at all. The artificial induction of seizures isn't like an appendectomy. It's really nothing but epilepsy and unlike regular epilepsies, this one is bound to destroy brain tissue.
>severe refractory depression (An individual with an exceedingly high risk of suicide with rates of a new attempt even as higher as 75%), psychotic patients with an exceedingly high risk of self harm or harm to others,
Again, here we see how the use of what effectively amounts to torture device with little to no proper scientific evidence is justified by helping people who want to 'harm' themselves. Knowing in-patient services, the notion of what is actually harm and self-harm is deliberately kept vague.
>without mentioning that psychosis is very neurotoxic by itself if left untreated.
Psychosis can't be neurotoxic. For that to be the case, psychosis would have to be something other than a behavioral symptom. Again, it's well proven that the neurodegeneration observed in psychotic patients is either due to a previously unidentified organic lesion, in which case psychiatry can't help anyway because it's not a legitimate medical profession, or caused by anti-psychotics and anti-neuroleptica.
>in patients who are indeed psychotic or who are true refractory depressions it has a success rate of up to 85%, so it is indeed useful in selected patients, otherwise we wouldn't be using it already.
Those who do not respond to ECT therefore don't have true refractory depressions? How is this argument not circular?
>there are a few theories that seem to be backed up by fMRI, like the hyperconnectivity hypothesis in depression
Brain scans can't identify depression.

[Anonymous No.14858927]

>>14858921
I have argued before in other threads, based on the examples of ADHD and autism, how the psychiatric profession and the tons of subsidiaries it has spawned invent diagnostic labels not because of any scientific insight but because of cost-volume-profit analyses. Psychiatric diagnoses function as labels used to excuse something, and to purchase services/drugs, but they have no medical or scientific value. If you get a diagnosis of ADHD, you 1. get an excuse for unruly, fidgety or forgetful behavior and 2. become eligible for services such as CBT or Adderall. The ones who provide you with that service themselves then have financial interests in continuing that business. Depression was a rare and temporary mental illness back in the '70s. Then Prozac appeared. Then other anti-depressants. Now, it is life-long and 10 % of the population is argued to have it. Again, what scientific evidence is there that 10 % of the population suffers from a brain disorder that necessitates aggressive medical treatment?

[Anonymous No.14858969]

Isnt this give to patients who consent? You cant give this to mentally ill who refuse even if they are deranged.

[Anonymous No.14859022]

>>14858969
Sorry, Dimitri. Yes, this varies from state to state but in-patient units that treat the forcibly hospitalized can and do use ECT regardless of consent.

[Anonymous No.14859705]

>>14858405
>. Sounds like the public defender in concert with his client are being dishonest using ECT as an excuse for whatever crimes the defendant is accused of.

It's not about crimes. It's the fact that ECT was performed involuntarily.

You intentionally misinterpreted this to defend your ego.

>The biggest external cause of true depression (total anhedonia, no motivation) from my observations is poverty and lackluster life. The brain sees no reason to stay active in such circumstances.

Yes, so clearly, the best response is to torture them to convince them that life is worth living.

You could, I don't know, take them for a walk through a forest, have them watch uplifting movies, generally get them on a path of a better life.

But no, we'll just fry your brain and then drug you, deceive ourselves about why and the result, and then ignore whether your life improves after the fact, because that's not our problem.

Psychiatrists are the people most trapped by cognitive biases I have ever met.

[Anonymous No.14859713]

>>14858405
>whatever crimes the defendant is accused of.

As an addition, this is clearly you trying to spread disinformation, again to defend your profession of veiled torture. Psychiatric hearings are not criminal hearings. You don't need to be accused of a crime to be given electroshock torture, or chemical torture agents (ie. anti-psychotics).

You know this, but intentionally lie about it because it soothes your guilty conscience.

[Anonymous No.14859729]

>>14859022
>Yes, this varies from state to state but in-patient units that treat the forcibly hospitalized can and do use ECT regardless of consent.

Then they will make up bullshit arguments about how the patients should be grateful for the brain damage and memory loss.

Anons, I think we will see the day Psychiatry is acknowledged as the most evil cult to have ever existed.

Psychiatry, ultimately is just a cult.

[Anonymous No.14860312]

>>14857974
Where did you get the statistics and data? Let me guess surveys?

[Anonymous No.14862290]

>>14859729
Memories on an insignificant life filled with nothing remarkable and brain "damage" that doesn't affect IQ, only memory for a greatly increased quality of life. Depressed patients aren't melancholic. They are anhedonic and have no motivation. If MAOIs, ketamine, and stimulants fail, ECT is the only option and most patients are willing to take the risk of amnesia. Doing nothing is much more harmful.

[Anonymous No.14862300]

>>14862290
>Memories on an insignificant life filled with nothing remarkable and brain "damage" that doesn't affect IQ
IQ is profoundly affected in some people who undergo ECT.

[Anonymous No.14862306]

>>14862290
Nice. Weaponize altruism and empathy to justify electro-shocking people. Just like the 'quality of life' argument is used to abort or euthanize people.

[Anonymous No.14862311]

>>14848558
Medication pretty much does the same thing
in 50 years from now people will think we were monsters

[Anonymous No.14862786]

>>14862290
>Memories on an insignificant life filled with nothing remarkable

Here you display your contempt for your patients. You consider them so far beneath you. If you consider their lives and memories meaningless, it is clear you do not actually care about their well-being.

You are a complete psychopath trying desperately to defend your ability to torture victims, and in so doing, you can only further display to everyone not indoctrinated in your cult, just how evil it is.

I am grateful, again, that you continue to display the demonic nature of psychiatry.

[Anonymous No.14862937]

>>14862786
It's a troll post you utter retard
There should be a critical reading test instead of a captcha

[Anonymous No.14862942]

>>14862786
I'm depressed. I've literally risked death and permanent brain damage for even temporary relief. Nothing he said was wrong. All my good memories are before the depression, the depressed memories I don't even revisit the "good" ones because I didn't enjoy them so they have no value to me.

[Anonymous No.14863172]

>>14862306
And that electroshock produces therapeutic effects that ameliorate depression.
>>14862786
You have zero idea of the hell most people with depression are in and have lived. They want their ceaseless suffering to stop. ECT is not a first line treatment. It is only reserved when other treatments have failed and proceeded with their informed consent and the side effects are made known. The anhedonia that makes up depression means a depressed person has done nothing with their lives for years or decades and the hitherto events were of no value to them, most have so little value for life that being dead is appealing which is why so many up and off themselves. ECT is the closest thing to a reboot of the brain. The procedure itself is painless. In terms of its invasity, it's less invasive than surgery and like everything it's detriments need to be weighed against its benefits. If I was depressed, and depressed to the point I could not function and other treatments have failed, I would get ECT without hesitation.
>>14862937
Dead serious.

[Anonymous No.14863462]

>>14857980
Anon the whole point is that the answer was inside you all along, you are the master of your own reality, given the power of creation and destruction, your anxieties only have power over you if you let them.

[Anonymous No.14863482]

>>14857980
>tried them and it made me scared
>i touch grass every day but i still have anxiety
>shrooms are just gorilla glue for the brain so your eyes go crossed and you start seeing "insights" which are just bullshit
That says everything about you and nothing about shrooms. lol. Have you ever considered that you're just getting what you deserve as a natural consequence of the worldview you harbor?

[Anonymous No.14863484]

>>14863172
That's right, goylem. There is nothing wrong with the system you're living under. Your brain is just broken and we can fix it... by giving you brain damage. That'll be $6,000,000 so I hope your insurance covers it. :^)

[Anonymous No.14863618]

>>14858074
>ECT should be thought off as a "brain defibrillator", just as a cardiac defibrillator
Bullshit, brain doesn't run on electricity you stupid retard. You're literally evaporating neurons at random in the patient brain

[Anonymous No.14863620]

>>14863618
The patient doesn't need that many neurons. He is a better goylem without them.

[Anonymous No.14863744]

>>14848558
Friend of mine worked in a closed psychiatry for a while. He mentioned one patient who heard 7 voices simultaneously. They successfully used that therapy on him. He's completely normal again, like he was before the voices appeared.

[Anonymous No.14863746]

>>14851663
He thinks a few businesses closing for two weeks is literally burning down society.

[Anonymous No.14863749]

>>14863746
NTA but vaxxoids are not human. Your life has no moral value.

[Anonymous No.14863794]

>>14863749
How is that related to anything that was said? Take meds.

[Anonymous No.14863850]

>>14863618
Just like defibrillation cooks heart cells. Wait a minute...

[Anonymous No.14863871]

>>14863794
How many jabs?

[Anonymous No.14864182]

>>14862937
>There should be a critical reading test instead of a captcha

Looks like you failed it, you cowardly moron.

>>14863172
>Dead serious.

[Anonymous No.14864189]

>>14863172
>You have zero idea of the hell most people with depression are in and have lived.

Ah, now you claim omniscience. You know the experiences of an anonymous stranger. I recommend haloperidol to help you with your delusions of grandeur.

Face it, the statements:
>I consider my patients' lives insignificant

Is a direct contradiction to
>I care about the health of my patients

Please, how do you reconcile that?

Moreover:

> It is only reserved when other treatments have failed and proceeded with their informed consent

Is, once again, you spreading blatant falsehoods, as ECT is performed without consent.

[Anonymous No.14864220]

>>14862942
>I didn't enjoy them so they have no value to me.

This is part of the flawed mental logic keeping you depressed. You think that a memory only has value if it is enjoyable. This is false. We learn from failure, we learn from mistakes and embarrassment.

You've been too weak to understand the meaning behind your suffering, so you try to annihilate your personality instead.

[Anonymous No.14864289]

>>14863871
Ask your doctor, I don't know what medication you need in which quantities.

[Anonymous No.14865171]

>>14863744
Cool, time to do that to all the priests.
Actually the true schizos are who believe in such a story, did he become normal in the sense he is no longer annoying or he said that? The brain damage will make you quiet till you realize you have been tortured. See people who committed suicide afterward, and do not say it was because they always been depressed the psychopaths don't care about that.

[Anonymous No.14865479]

>>14863744
Are you sure he didn't just fake it to avoid being electrocuted again?

Remember, you're trusting the word of your 'friend'. Not the patient....

[Anonymous No.14865508]

>>14858921
It ceases to be punishment if no pain is experienced. If anything your argument provides good reason to use high dose ECT in criminal populations instead of prison for sentacing. If someone commits a crime, simply give them ECT immediately after with an expedited trial and you have someone who is fully rehabilitated and less likely to recidivate, saving tax payers billions if implented on a mass scale. Prison should only be reserved for heniois crimes and political offenders.