/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.9974914]

Redpill me on the math major, wanting to switch to it, currently cheme major.

[Anonymous No.9974916]

>>9974914
no jobs

[Anonymous No.9974922]

>>9974916
This. I've been neet since I finished my major three years ago.

[Anonymous No.9974984]

>>9974922
it's true but that's probably because you shower once a month desu

[Anonymous No.9974999]

>>9974914
No lab work and even less socialization required. People say there aren't any jobs for it, but getting a degree in math puts you on the path to learning universal truths. Who the fuck needs to work when you can do math on your own?

[Anonymous No.9975005]

>>9974999
That pic is retarded. Mathematicians benefit just as much of diffuse thinking as anyone else.

[Anonymous No.9975007]

>>9974916
No jobs in cheme either so meh.

[Anonymous No.9975008]

>>9974916
>>9974922
A math major is worthless without an actual degree

[Anonymous No.9975010]

>>9975007
A chemical engineering degree will give you more and better options than a math degree. This should be obvious.

[Anonymous No.9975011]

>>9975008
and by that I mean either a M.Sc. or Ph.D. in mathematics

[Anonymous No.9975013]

>>9974914
you will do better in business/finance analysis
there will always be jobs that pay well

[Anonymous No.9975016]

>>9974999
That pic made me chuckle more that it should have then made me a bit depressed.
t. Math major

[Anonymous No.9975020]

>no jobs in STEM field
Where did this meme come from?

[Anonymous No.9975024]

>>9975020
nobody is saying there are no jobs in stem. we're saying there are no jobs in math

[Anonymous No.9975025]

>>9975010
Not really, if I had a math PhD I would probably get a better job in most Western countries.

t. ChemE PhD.

>>9975013
This.

>>9975020
It's over-saturated and it's not a meme.

If you don't believe me check out the IChemE forums on LinkedIn (not the official streams, the actual engineers and graduates). Shit's horrific.

[Anonymous No.9975030]

>>9975020
Compared to other STEM degrees, which tend to come in handy for a wide range of positions. Pure math just gives you the one thing every other STEM major has and doubles down on it. With chemical engineering you get math, chemistry, some physics, and even a little biology - on top of the specialized engineering courses. You don't have to be particularly good at any one of the subjects to consider being hired for knowing them.

[Anonymous No.9975037]

I thought math majors sub class into computer science or at least programming to eventually get into algorithm engineering.

Everyone else ends up serving coffee in starbucks.

[Anonymous No.9975039]

>>9975025
>PhD
A bachelor's in pure math is regarded in such a different light than a PhD, they practically shouldn't even be the same major. The PhD is the *real* math degree.

I think there may be an inverse phenomenon with arts degrees.

[Anonymous No.9975042]

>>9975030
Also you need legit high IQ in math to become special in the field while in anything else low IQ is sufficient.

[Anonymous No.9975044]

>>9975020
>>9975024
>>9975025
Also.

The problem isn't that our job market is so horrific. The problem is that our companies and professional societies keep shilling the profession as the god tier golden ticket, which it hasn't been since the cold war. All this does is to drastically lower salaries and demand due to the flood of new engineering graduates.

Companies are posting offers for engineers that pay less than cleaning staff. They know they can get away with this because many graduates are extremely desperate to stay in engineering. They did the same thing with Law which is why most lawyers have to work for next to nothing at the start of their career.

This is a bullshit deal after this expensive and difficult degree to get paid less than high-school dropouts and anyone who is still recommending students to study engineering should be shot on sight.

Again, there are still some good offers, but those jobs are getting rarer and rarer as the power struggle between employers and employees continue. You should only study engineering if you have the family connections to get venture capital for your own startup company (you can't start your own firm because of the scam that you need to work under another engineer for a few years before you can register as a professional/chartered engineer).

Do NOT study engineering in the next 20 years unless you have the balls to stand up for your rights, and not be one of those faggot cucks that excepts the low offers and deflates the value of our profession.

[Anonymous No.9975051]

>>9975039
You're absolutely right.

A bachelors in math is probably the most useless degree on the market. A Masters in applied math will get your foot in the door at some software companies and a PhD is a serious big boy degree that can open many options.

The goal should be to aim for applications though, because academia is not healthy in any discipline.

[Anonymous No.9975058]

>>9975051
>academia is not healthy in any discipline
Why's that? Liberal Jews?

[Anonymous No.9975069]

>>9975058
Just Jews in general. If your dad isn't doesn't share Rabbi stories with a professor somewhere you are probably not getting 1/10th of the opportunities the average Askhenazi Jewish kid is.

[Anonymous No.9975074]

>>9975051
Since when do people get PhDs in order to get a job? At best, spending 4-5 years on a PhD in math is a step sideways for your career - and at worst (for most) it's a step down.

[Anonymous No.9975085]

>>9975074
>Since when do people get PhDs in order to get a job?
Since the engineering and physics bachelor job market turned to shit.

Even fucking medicine is not safe these days. MEDICINE ANON; The chosen eternal bastion of job security is not. fucking. safe.

>At best, spending 4-5 years on a PhD in math is a step sideways for your career - and at worst (for most) it's a step down.
Yes, you are right it is.

The best option currently is computer science or software engineering. The problem is that there are hordes of people going into software dev right now, it probably won't be healthy in 5-10 years.

I said a math PhD is better in >>9975025 because it is better than a Chemical Engineering PhD degree for transitioning into very high paying software research jobs. But math is also shit compared to computer science or SE.


There is no "good" career anymore, the era of job security for high paying professional careers died in 2008. It will not heal until there is a very radical revitalization of the economy. Considering this goddamned trade war the only advice I'd be willing to give young people is to get into the food industry (and not as a professional).

[Anonymous No.9975094]

>>9974914
a math major is a supplmental major to what you actually want a degree in

[Anonymous No.9975102]

>>9975085
The only good "job" is to inherit riches from your parents.

[Anonymous No.9975109]

>>9975085
>The best option currently is computer science or software engineering. The problem is that there are hordes of people going into software dev right now, it probably won't be healthy in 5-10 years.
The good thing about CS is that it's extremely easy to be in the top 10% of skill and you can always find something easy to learn to become way more effective than the competition.

[Anonymous No.9975114]

>>9975102
The real job comes after the inheriting.

[Anonymous No.9975117]

>>9974914
>Redpill me on the math major

Mathematics is the BEST SECOND major for any academician. By itself, an undergraduate degree in Mathematics is barely above toilet paper, BUT combined with another degree, the other degree SHINES, you really stand out when applying to grad school or a job.

GET a mathematics degree to compliment any other degree.

[Anonymous No.9975167]

>>9975094
>>9975117

This is kind of a bullshit, stupid thing to say.

Suppose you wanted to be an engineer in industry. A math degree will not matter, no one will look at your math degree because it will not be used in 90% of the jobs that engineers are hired for and for the other 10% you will use the type of applied math that is learned by specialist and postgraduate engineers and computer scientists.

The same is true for computer science with the possible exception of graphics processing where (APPLIED) geometry and topology can become useful. However, unless you're going to be a researcher you're just going to need to learn to access library APIs anyway.


Now supposed you wanted to be a researcher where you work on cutting edge algorithms or control theory research. Here you would need a PhD in engineering/CS anyway, and people people working in those fields tend to quickly pick up the math they missed in undergrad (and some postgrad level applied math too) so the undergrad math is once again worthless. But guess what, at this point you might as well have done a math PhD because in the applied domain all STEM research fields tend to blend together. You won't make it in pure academia (even as Math trying to get into engineering), but you can sure as hell get a job as a researcher doing some kind of science/math software dev.

At this point you have a PhD so you are overqualified for entry level engineering jobs where things like engineering licensure matter.


In general doing a double major is a retarded waste of your time and/or money. Just graduate any bachelor in Physics/math/engy/cs as soon as possible.

[Anonymous No.9975221]

>>9975167
Oh anon. So naive. So cute. So young.

Graduate admissions love math degree second majors. And unless you're going to be a codemonkey or excelmonkey, you need to get into graduate school- preferably with scholarships and a research/teaching stipend. For which, having a math double major shows your ability.

>graduate any bachelor in Physics/math/engy/cs as soon as possible

Stupid except for cs

[Anonymous No.9975227]

Everything is fucked in america. In my country only biology majors need to worry about not getting a job.

[Anonymous No.9975261]

damm 4chan! aren't there any useful degrees that pay off and doesn't lead to mind-numbing monkey work? This is fucking depressing.

[Anonymous No.9975289]

>>9975261
Put in more effort than just getting the degree and you will be fine.

[Anonymous No.9975294]

>>9974916
^

[Anonymous No.9975298]

>>9975261
It depends, most degrees can do it principle, but you need to either network hard, be in the top of the class, do something original like starting a business with your knowledge, or a combination of those. If you go from school to job without putting some effort you're doing monkey work until our robot overlords take over, just like the plebs have always done throughout history

[Anonymous No.9975302]

>>9975261
People who have been conditioned to see a diploma as nothing more than an addition to their resume *want* that kind of work. I guess they can’t think of any better ways to make money.

[Anonymous No.9975333]

>>9975289

i'm just super insecure and read a lot of conflicting opinions on that matter. i can't decide on a major anymore. being brainlet i won't stand out in any field and i do math mainly because it helps me coping with my depression.

[Anonymous No.9975336]

>>9975333
Pick up a trade and do math in your free time.

[Anonymous No.9975340]

>>9975336
>Brainlets doing math in their spare time
Ask me how I know you never hung out with the cool kids in high school

[Anonymous No.9975351]

>>9975336

i thought about that. but my (limited) experience is that, after i day of hard manual labor, i wouldn't have the mind for it anymore. i know many tradesmen and i don't think i can stomach their way of life.

[Anonymous No.9975477]

>>9975340
I did,, for a while. After the first few months got bored, they're nothing but narcissistic retards.

[Anonymous No.9975484]

>>9974914
This thread is so dumb. Get a math degree. Go to grad school. Opportunities will present themselves if you go to conferences, talk to people and are willing to relocate.

[Anonymous No.9975514]

>>9975484
Stfu we're trying to give bad advice here

[Anonymous No.9975524]

>>9975261
Statistics

[Anonymous No.9975531]

>>9975524
Name? Source?

Please.

[Anonymous No.9975549]

>>9974916
Math major here, can confirm. I regret not having studied something like CS instead.

[Anonymous No.9975640]

>>9975261
>get employable degree in subject you don't love
>end up with money but a job you hate
or
>get unemployable degree in subject you do love
>end up poor and miserable as hell

Unless you study something employable that you also love, there's no winning

[Anonymous No.9975658]

>>9975640
Just ask the government for money. They’ll give it to you for all kinds of reasons.

[Anonymous No.9975665]

>>9974916
> have wanted to do do something in math since I was a child. As long as I can remember.
>now that I'm in college as a math major people keep telling me there are no jobs
should I bail and switch majors?

[Anonymous No.9975693]

>>9975665
How badly do you need a job? Are you enjoying your time in college? Are you willing to risk losing your first, and likely best, chance at intellectual fulfillment for the sake of finding work?

[Anonymous No.9975702]

>>9975693
quite frankly I kind of want a job but don't know where to begin. my parents definitely want me to get a job though. I am enjoying college so far, and don't have a definitive answer on that last one tbqh

[Anonymous No.9975711]

>>9975702
They want you to get one straight out of college? If you’re living with them, and they want you to be financially independent, I’d say it’s not for you to decide. Tell them about your situation and take the advice they give you.

[Anonymous No.9975769]

sometimes i panic and consider switching to pre-med. but i don't want to spend my life surrounded by sick people. i can hardly stand the "healthy" segment of society. but the thought of poverty scares me to the bone. feels like i'm fucked no matter what i do.

[Anonymous No.9975810]

>>9975769
>i can hardly stand the "healthy" segment of society
This desu

[Anonymous No.9975850]

>>9975221
Fuck off you little undergrad shit, I'm a PhD and and junior lecturer in chemical engineering and our department has only a minimum requirement "accredited ENGINEERING degree", I literally have coffee with the people on our admissions committee as well as people who serve NRC for selecting which research proposals get funded. In the latter group they do not even look up what your undergrad degree is in. They just check if your level is Prof/RA/PhD/Graduate.

In the first place we select students from our own department first, then students from top 3 and top 5 engineering schools automatically for whatever adviser they choose.

Then, if there are any places left, we take the rest of the admissions and throw out all the incomplete ones or ones with shit GREs and TOEFL scores. Next we look at the transcript of the degree (before grades). If you do have vital courses such as reaction engineering and process control we put your application in the bottom of the pile. Now we compare grades and ONLY the final grade on your transcript. You took extra math courses and feel that you should have leeway due to the extra course load? Too bad, it counts for nothing and that kid who focused on one degree likely has a higher GPA than you.

Finally of those that passed the round in the above paragraph we hand a few to the professors directly. They then determine who will be the most useful to them, if you need to take too many remedial courses (for our department this is 4th year reaction, control and 4th year optimisation simulation) they you are thrown, if you have no publications or interesting unpublished research projects you are thrown out (because most applicants do have at least one publication).

So again, if you were busy doing extra course work like the good little autistic kid that you are, you probably didn't get time for a research publication.

[Anonymous No.9975851]

>>9975850
The math department has a similar process to engineering, though they tend to throw out engineering graduates more quickly (which is fair since we throw out every single non-engineer without exception).

Graduate school scholarships are based on the strength of your research proposal and your grades (average historical GPA). Your grant link (which is the only real money in postgrad) is based on the availability of your advisers research funds for the project which has nothing to with your

Finally the only other source of income is TAing, which you can only do in your own department, you are more likely to get this if you took more upper level and specialized engineering classes since everyone wants to take the baby courses.


Mathematics doesn't have any math that is valuable for engineering. Engineering students who learn basic algebra, topology, analysis etc. by themselves quickly pick up the math they need in applied functional analysis, optimisation and differential geometry courses. However, students who did not study control engineering etc. in undergrad are at massive disadvantage since even if you can learn it by yourself you will need to spend a minimum of 2 years doing additional remedial coursework before you can even start with your posgraduate courses. Pure math is not related to engineering math at all.

An extra degree is entirely worthless. Admissions committees do not care, scholarships committees do not care, research grant committees do not care.

Some fat, autistic handholdless, kissless virgins on the internet will care.

[Anonymous No.9975865]

>>9975769
TRADEs

Listen. High paying jobs may be more scarce, but living costs are also way down.

You will be fine and enjoy a life of cheap food, electronics and internet either way.

[Anonymous No.9975932]

>>9975851
I know it’s not your field, but could you take a guess on how it would go down for a pure math bachelor to apply for a chemistry PhD program? Is a bachelor’s in chemistry going to be regarded much more highly than one in pure math?

[Anonymous No.9975973]

>>9975665
Yes, just spend elective units on math courses. Why haven’t people figured this out? That goes for you too>>9974914

[Anonymous No.9975975]

>>9975973
I don’t think many universities allow that for STEM majors. Pretty sure STEM majors have to use up most of their elective units on humanities.

[Anonymous No.9976054]

>>9975932
Postgrad in all the pure research fields tend to blend together so it shouldn't matter much, but it really depends on the university.

The problem my department has is that both national and international engineering accreditation is only defined for a bachelors. So there's a lot of issues when people are led to believe that they can get professional engineering licensure with our postgrad degree, but we have to award them degrees that say "Masters/PhD in Applied Science (Chemical Engineering Technology)" rather than "Masters/PhD in Engineering (Chemical Engineering)". In addition we have regular checkups by the professional accreditation societies that ensure we don't award a degree that says "engineering" to a science graduate.

Pure math departments tend to outright prefer pure math grads. Physics and chemistry departments are less discriminatory.

If I were you I'd also put in my letter of motivation any kind of chemistry that you have self-studied. For example if you have studied analytical, inorganic, thermodynamics and physical chem at a senior level, organic and synthesis etc. then they know that they at least you are not allergic to those fields and that you would not need much remedial course work.

What most professors care about is publications, so they want to know you'll get to a point where you can start publishing as soon as possible. If you can get a chemistry journal publication before your application you'll have an extremely good chance.

[Anonymous No.9976105]

>>9976054
Thanks for the thorough answer! Just,
>Self-studying senior-level chemistry
I don’t know what kind of supergenius you think you’re talking to, but tackling that while, or immediately after, working for a pure math degree seems excessively difficult to the point of being completely beyond the ability of a normal human. I took the first set of O-chem courses at university, and I could not imagine myself passing a single one of them without at least some small measure of guidance from an expert. If I took a few years off to do absolutely nothing but study chemistry, I’m confident I’d be able to grasp the heavier concepts on my own. But a double major, useless as it is, would have to make one look more impressive than that inefficient sort of self-study, right?

Maybe people with 160 IQ who score perfect 2400s (or 1600s?) on the SAT would find learning chemistry beyond O-chem comes naturally to them. I like to think I’m smart, but I’m not even close to *that* smart.

[Anonymous No.9976132]

>>9975524
But that degree and work is exactly fucking boring

[Anonymous No.9976146]

>>9976105
I had assumed you studied a lot of chemistry in undergrad. What exactly do you think you'll contribute in a chemistry PhD programme?

If you want to transition to chemistry there are other options, maybe if you can afford to fund yourself and your projects they will let you take courses or whatever, but I don't think that's a valuable use of your nor the university's time. If you want to end up in chemistry anyway and don't want to double major simply transfer to chemistry before graduation.

Is there a reason you specifically want to do a PhD? It's pretty hard to get in even when you do have life direction and top tier grades. I would recommend finding work first and then look at coming back to academia when you have some experience, you can probably get a joint industrial project to do a PhD eventually as long as you work for technical companies.

[Anonymous No.9976164]

>>9975531
Chou Tzuyu from Twice
she is really pretty

[Anonymous No.9976187]

>>9976164

some day she will make an octopus very happy

[Anonymous No.9976201]

>>9974916
There are plenty of jobs if you also study computer science (either on your own or as a minor).

[Anonymous No.9976228]

>>9974914
Just be a gigantic cuck like me and get a degree in education. You'll love it.

[Anonymous No.9976294]

>>9975640
>study something you love
Your passion shouldn't be your profession, that's the fastest way to burn out and hate everything

[Anonymous No.9976326]

>>9976228
Anon............It sort of seems you don't value your career in education.

[Anonymous No.9976328]

>>9976294
Speaking from experience?

[Anonymous No.9976410]

>>9974914
stay a chem major.

[Anonymous No.9976411]

>>9974999
>getting a degree in math puts you on the path to learning universal truths

what math confirms this axiom

[Anonymous No.9976440]

>>9976132
>t. someone with a shitty stats department
t. goes to a school with a stats specialisation under the math department