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/sci/ - Science & Math

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9957962 No.9957962 [Reply] [Original]

Is education even a worthwhile investment anymore? Because student debt says otherwise.

>Yes, I am American.

>> No.9957967

I think it's still worth at. Without a degree it's a lot harder to even get your foot in the door.


The cost is outrageous though.

>> No.9958177

>>9957962
hahahaha no free education, no free healthcare, Europe Master Race

>> No.9958219
File: 14 KB, 306x306, dhmis_4_analysis_by_austindr-d8onn8w.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9958219

>>9958177
haha yeah free stuff, why can't Americans seem to get it.
>oh yes of course Merkel, you can have 60% of my paycheck, and make sure you use it to take care of those poor refugees :((

>>9957962
If you can get a double major in either CS, Chemistry, Mathematics, or useful engineering, its worth it.
It is also worth it if you go into one of the business majors that actually require you to think a bit (Finance, Economics, Accounting) and pair it with Mathematics or CS.

BUT, if you are less than a 3.5 gpa graduating, you pissed your money away.
Brainlets need not apply unless they are getting their education paid for.

>> No.9958229

>>9957962
Only if you learn a skill like programming or know someone who will hook you up with a job. Everything else will be automated or flooded with too many people before you can pay off your student loans.

I dropped out of college. There are NO jobs for anyone who doesn't have a degree. There's simply too many people trying to get those jobs. It took 14 months to get hired as a fucking grocer. I sent out over 60 applications, had a few interviews and had to get lucky (the store had a lot of people leave at once which is a rare occurence). Didn't get a single callback from any job over $9/hr. Not even delivery driver.

That's your future if you don't go to higher education.

>> No.9958236

>>9958219
>haha yeah free stuff, why can't Americans seem to get it.
>>oh yes of course Merkel, you can have 60% of my paycheck, and make sure you use it to take care of those poor refugees :((

The tuition system didn't exist until the 80s when republicans gained massive political influence and defunded higher education. There's no issue with funding it other than opposition from dumbasses who buy into the rich's scaremongering propaganda like you have.

>> No.9958237

It never was a proper "investment". If you don't want actual knowledge don't go to a university.

>> No.9958244

>>9958236
You would actually fund higher education knowing full well that they would use it to put more "disadvantaged" kids into it. IE dindus who graduated high school with sub 2.0 gpas.

>> No.9958245

>>9958219
Dude i am not even German, i dont care. Aaaalso free education and free healthcare biatch

>> No.9958248

>>9958244
Educating EVERYONE can only yield positive results, how can you not see this?

>> No.9958258

>>9958248
>'I never thought leopards would eat MY face,' sobs woman who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.

>> No.9958261

>>9958258
You are worse than dindus, seriously

>> No.9958285

>>9957962
once you're past undergrad, schools pay you to go

>> No.9958294

>>9958244
>You would actually fund higher education knowing full well that they would use it to put more "disadvantaged" kids into it.

Everyone would get an opportunity at higher education.

And to answer your question specifically- of course.

I'm not sure what your opposition to this is. Why should disadvantaged people be barred from high education?

>IE dindus who graduated high school with sub 2.0 gpas.

Again, what exactly does this mean? What are you trying to actually say?

>> No.9958304

>>9957962
average student debt is $30k. thats less than a new truck.

>> No.9958309

>>9958244
Most countries do the same thing: they have children demonstrate their capabilities with entrance exams so their unis aren’t flooded with morons.

Better than America where tuition AND grade inflation are both rampant. Only good thing about American education is its access to money and tools.

>> No.9958317

>>9958294
If we give American unis full range to let in whoever they want, money is no object, then they will let the bottom of the bucket into college because muh raycism.

>> No.9958320

>>9957962
I think that’s really up to the individual. Thankfully it’s not too hard to distinguish yourself in college, and undergraduate degrees aren’t *too* espensive with university and federal grants.

It’s graduate education that’s bad, make sure you go somewhere that will pay you to attend. For that matter, make sure you have the good grades and research that will make them want to pay for you.

>> No.9958326

>>9958294
by dindus he means sub 2.0 gpa brainlets are being prioritized entry into unis over more qualified applicants because of muh diversity.
Schools typically have standards to ensure that the students they accept can handle the coursework intellectually. When they undercut that for diversity admissions, those people typically will drop out.
The point is, paying for sub-standard shitters will most likely be a waste of money

>> No.9958335

>>9958326
Why gpa matters? Please can you explain that to me? Does your kindergarden grade matters? does your junior school matters? Grades mean nothing at all. The only qualification should be thirst for knowledge.

>> No.9958378

>>9958317
>they will let the bottom of the bucket into college because muh raycism.

Why is this a bad thing?

>by dindus he means sub 2.0 gpa brainlets are being prioritized entry into unis over more qualified applicants because of muh diversity

There's no evidence of this. The "evidence" provided for this argument is solely personal stories- in which many times, the person did not have information on the admissions system or the person is annymous. ie This claim has no teeth.

>Schools typically have standards to ensure that the students they accept can handle the coursework intellectually.

As schools have to rely on the tuition system and are cut off from public funding, they must choose students who will eventualy be able to bring in private funding since they rely so heavily on that now. So schools highly prioritize students who are rich, went to better schools, have experience in research (which may not have been achieved meritocratically- in fact, it's mostly nepotism) and so on.

So if you took away the need for universities to rely on private funding and tuition, you would get a system where "diversity admissions" (again, no teeth but I'm using your line of reasoning here) didn't make much of an impact anyway.

Isn't it curious to you that the political sources you get information on "diversity admissions" don't also criticize admission advantages to the rich (for which there actually IS evidence)?

>The point is, paying for sub-standard shitters will most likely be a waste of money

You can't just throw this in at the end of your comment, this is a MAJOR claim. And it requires more research than you've put in (which is 0).

Have you done analysis on the cost benefits of a more educated voter pool? I would be my farm you haven't.

>> No.9958380

>>9958326
>>9958378

>> No.9958404

>>9958177
>free
you mean tax based right? Just like your abdul inmigrant who raped your daughther, progresist cuck

>> No.9958414

>>9958404
First i am not a progresist, secondly now taxes are bad? How do you expect a governmet to work without taxes to use for public interests? Oh yeah by private institutions that require you to take loans to pay, tell me more about it if the bank allows you to ofc

>> No.9958424

>>9958414
i was just shitposting though. Only stem+medicine should be pax based and only qualified students should get to go. Maybe voucher system is ok too. But healthcare? not really a reason to make it """"free"""" for everyone, read malthus man

>> No.9958434

>>9958414
Public goods are things everyone uses. IE: roads.
I am not going to pay for dindus to get a degree in marketing.

This is why we fucking rebelled you European piece of shit. Enjoy getting raped by peaceful refugees.

>> No.9958442

>>9958434
you can enoy getting raped by peacefull mexicans/mara salvatruchas though. Based liberalism is allways for the people and not the je.. right?

>> No.9958457

>>9958424
>i was just shitposting
dude it was jsut a prank bro!

>read malthus man

That's it? Just "read this guy"

That doesn't even make any fucking sense. At least point out a text to read.

>>9958434
respond to me, inbred >>9958378

>Public goods are things everyone uses.

Wow you are super smart.

Do you use tanks? And stealth planes? No you fuckin don't but you benefit from the service that the military provides. Just like you would benefit from a more educated neighbor.

>> No.9958458

>>9958424
There is no perfect system for anything, anything that man does is flawed since we are flawed beings, between the two proposed systems though a)tax based public education b)private institutionalised education, the first allows for a wider range of people to become even basically educated so it progress society further than locking it behind a paywall. From all the taxes we pay the ones going to education are the ones i regret least on paying.

>> No.9958462

>>9957962
education through the institutional means is becoming less valuable offset by the costs/commitments, but it is still the best means if you are dedicated to the pursuit of knowledge.
hopefully education systems will reform over the next half century or be partially replaced by something better.

>> No.9958476

>>9958434
Yeah you'd rather just hand them wellfare to buy weed for their cataract, this is why dindus stay dindus if you dont see that you are as bad as them just on the opposite side of the spectrum.

>> No.9958481

I'm american and getting a 2 year degree in mechanical engineering, because the companies around here are eating up people with hands on and welding experience. Paid for completely by grants. Sounds good to me.

>> No.9958482

>>9958378
>Why is this a bad thing?
Because they will fail and waste public funds.
>There's no evidence of this. The "evidence" provided for this argument is solely personal stories- in which many times, the person did not have information on the admissions system or the person is annymous. ie This claim has no teeth.
What is affirmative action.
>So schools highly prioritize students who are rich, went to better schools,
Wrong, schools want to fill seats, this has caused employers to look more closely at GPA and internships in the US because it is easier to graduate. This has turned the US into more of a meritocracy. Instead of simply having a piece of paper like in Europistan, you must demonstrate your prowess through grades and experience.
>So if you took away the need for universities to rely on private funding and tuition, you would get a system where "diversity admissions" (again, no teeth but I'm using your line of reasoning here) didn't make much of an impact anyway.
Wrong, diversity admissions are due to niggers complaining about racism. Purely social.
>Isn't it curious to you that the political sources you get information on "diversity admissions" don't also criticize admission advantages to the rich (for which there actually IS evidence)?
Poor people don't go to college as much because they are more stupid on average, poor people can get basically free rides through financial aid in the US. It is just as easy for smart ameripoors to succeed as smart europoors.
>You can't just throw this in at the end of your comment, this is a MAJOR claim. And it requires more research than you've put in (which is 0). Have you done analysis on the cost benefits of a more educated voter pool? I would be my farm you haven't.
Paying for ANYTHING for a sub-standard shitter is waste. They aren't deserving of what I've made with my own work.
>>9958457
>implying I'm pro military.

>> No.9958484

>>9958248
That’s what high schools are for. College is a privilege, not a right. Something to be earned.

>> No.9958491

>>9957962
>Yes, I am american
The best fresh university graduates in a third world world country earn around 10-15k a year and the rest are unemployed. The only way you can be american and still fuck up your life is if you're too retarded to get a university degree. So yes, it's worth it you privileged fuck.

>> No.9958492

>>9958484
High school produces workers not thinkers, not that college or university does that by virtue of being, but surely its a step in the right direction when EVERYONE has access to higher education and not just basic one. Higher education is a right by constitution in European countries btw.

>> No.9958504

>>9958492
Higher education teaches you to think inside the box, it produces workers just the same. It's up to the individual to be able to see through all the bullshit, play along for a few years, and then use the piece of paper to his or her advantage.

>> No.9958511

>>9958504
Which is why i said it doesnt but still is a step to the right direction.

>> No.9958518

>>9958492
Then you devalue anything undergrad and people will complain about not getting into a Masters or PhD program. I don’t disagree we need to make it more accessible, but I don’t think anyone should just be able to get in.

>> No.9958531

>>9958518
Not anyone, there are entry exams you need to take, before i got into a university i took part in a nation wide exam and got graded for it, if i dont manage to get the grade required i dont get in, simple as that.

>> No.9958534

>>9958219
why chemistry and not other sciences?

>> No.9958536

>>9958492
>Europe is a good model.
Germany: 42% income tax
Denmark: 45% income tax
France: 41% income tax

If you make 80k+ you have to fork over almost half your money to your shill governments for your """"""""""""""""""free"""""""""""""""""" shit.

How does this not infuriate you? Are you this cucked? Why not at least try and live as free from government as you can?

>> No.9958543

>>9958536
You do realise that this is a flat tax and we dont have flat tax? Especially income tax is based on how much you make, there are taxation brackets.

>> No.9958547

>>9958534
No one will employ physics, biology, geographical sciences, psychology, or sociology.

>> No.9958549

>>9958543
all of those apply to people who make over 80k.
Why attend uni if you're not going to get a job paying 80k plus?

>> No.9958550

>>9958547
I dont think thats true plus people can work for themselves you know.

>> No.9958554
File: 12 KB, 244x207, FrogPosting.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9958554

>>9958550

>> No.9958555

>>9958549
The majority of people dont make 80k a year.

>> No.9958563

>>9958547
>biology
Oh how very wrong you are

>> No.9958576

>>9958563
sssssh dont tell him

>> No.9958578

>>9958549
>>9958549
>making over 80k/year in europoor countries
just to give you an example of my country in academia, only full professors reach the 80k mark

>> No.9958585

>>9958555
You will if you did uni right.

>> No.9958587

>>9958578
>in academia
>not going into the private sector.

>> No.9958588

>>9958258
>vote Republican
>you have to pay for college with interest, hope you like being poor
>vote Democrat
>pay a bit less for college, and it's also a neomarxist breeding ground designed to mindfuck people into never being able to pull their head out of their own asshole

It's almost like both parties have a deep seated hatred for America.

>> No.9958589

>>9958585
Ummm no? Even at the higher payscales its around 4000 to 5000 thousand euros a month, way less than 80k a year. Only politicians make that king of money with paychecks in the range of 6500 to 7500 euros a month.Not to mention majority of private or public workers that their paychecks is around 1500 to 2000 a month.

>> No.9958590

>>9958587
>private sector
>getting hired
Those days are long gone.

>> No.9958593

>>9958588
Wow its almost like the pragmatic party supports getting an education in a field that has demand.

Not saying republicans are good, but this sentiment is shared among us libertarians as well.

>> No.9958596

>>9958587
>the private sector
the base salary for real good jobs is like 20k/year and you need a MSc and experience on the area (such as research or internships)

>>9958590
code monkeys here are hired instantly, there is a shortage on them, but the salary, although good for the country, is shit

>> No.9958597

>>9958590
SIGH. I have a degree in kinesiology, why can't I get hired...

>> No.9958601

>>9958596
>the base salary for real good jobs is like 20k/year

What kind of shithole do you live in?
MEDIAN starting salary for graduates in my major is 60k.

>> No.9958602

>>9958601
And what shithole do you live in? I want to migrate there.

>> No.9958604

>>9958601
Portugal
Where is cheaper to hire dozens of code monkeys who do a good job (uni prepares you very well for code monkeying since CS is SE oriented) than to contract a few people from US. Then these companies outsource the product to their branch on the US and make a lot of profit.

>> No.9958615

>>9958604
Hello fellow PIGS, dont confuse them with outsourcing or different living standards.

>> No.9958616

>>9958248
>Educating EVERYONE can only yield positive results
Education only means something when its a thing in which we can distinguish people's level of education.
Otherwise it's nothing more than a useless piece of overly expensive paper. A socially wasteful credential machine, a useless hurdle only forcing people to work harder to just be able to drive service trucks.
Shooting for mediocrity and super-value education does not "yield positive results".

>> No.9958619

>>9958593
>libertarian

You mean the "philosophy" of letting various existential threats to society go unchecked while considering yourself seperate from it? "Free" Market enslavement? Your entire success depends upon a well functioning society with permanence in mind and you want to just throw it all away so people who have acquired capital through usury can earn even more and destroy what's left of the middle class? I have more respect for an alt right kid than a libertarian, at least they have some conception of what it means to recognize existential threats and stand by some sort of principle other than self-interest.

>> No.9958622

>>9958616
Education at its core should strive to make people better, not just provide them with a worthless piece of paper(on that we agree) or give them basic knowledge, the proccess of education makes you more capable of thinking in general not only on what you are trained to do.

>> No.9958626

>>9958531
>Not anyone, there are entry exams you need to take
So, in order to even get into college, you would need to work even harder than before simply because you want it "free"? You would have to gatekeep even harder than paying a private fee (rather than a public one), pushing out even more people from getting a degree. Seems overly discriminatory to me, or just another brand of one-size-fits-all education.

>> No.9958633

>>9958626
Ummm you have to work for everything in life anon, nothing is handed to you, if i want to get in med school after high school i would have to have a degree of 18.5+/20 and thats a good thing, i want dedicated smart people that arent afraid of work beoming doctors not just anyone that has familymoney.

>> No.9958636

>>9958626
In the last years (at least in my country), the grades to enter are low af, you don't enter only if you are a brainlet. Also, the exams to be accounted are only regarding your major, i.e., if you go to maths, they only count the maths exam as an enter grade, and so on. And you have to do 4 exams in total tho.

>> No.9958637

>>9958602
America.

>> No.9958642

>>9958626
>>9958633
except med school, that and a few other majors have high grades to enter

>> No.9958645

>>9958637
Fuck your shithole, US is a joke, dollar has no value, enjoy being owned by the FRB

>> No.9958648

>>9958642
A lot of majors have very high grade thresholds, lowest ones tend to be bussiness administration and shit like that, service sector jobs mostly.

>> No.9958649

>>9958622
>the process of education makes you more capable of thinking in general not only on what you are trained to do
you are blathering.

part of education is a credibility system. you are signaling to employers that you are capable of doing high quality work.
the only way for the educational system to mean anything at all, is if you let people fail. If you don't, education is nothing but a socially wasteful activity.
Currently in the states, there is pretty bad grade inflation. This forces students to work harder than even before. The reason is people are getting too many A's. Grade inflation is at its worst in ivy-league schools.
Ultimately this means you cannot hope to find a good job simply by getting good grades anymore, you need to find internships, volunteer work, research positions, etc. Students have to work harder for no other reason than to distinguish them from the rest because their educational system isn't doing that for them.

>> No.9958650

>>9958648
Depends on the country I guess

>> No.9958654

>>9958633
>Ummm you have to work for everything in life anon, nothing is handed to you,
You shouldn't have to work pointlessly.
If working is all you care about, why not enact forced labour?
Instead, we need an educational system which encourages people to work appropriately hard, and not to over-work people, for what they are trying to achieve, and to make that educational system affordable.

>> No.9958664

>>9958645
but im still gonna make 60+k, and you'll make 20k

>> No.9958665

>>9958649
Ok theoritical education means nothing so grade arguement is a joke, i would take practical experience over any theoritical one, its the base that you build upon not the structure itself.

>>9958650
Well yeah but generally service sector jobs have lower thresholds than science ones, dont they?

>>9958654
You dont work pointlessly, you work towards achieving your goal which is getting into med school for example. And how do you make the education system affordable? By providing low cost average to high grade public education. Leaving it solely to the private sector would just see tuition prices spike beyond reason, isnt that what happened in US and UK?

>> No.9958673

>>9958664
Ok you do that m8

>> No.9958685

>>9957962

Community college is pretty cheap and plenty of Jordan Peterson - tier professors all over the place

>> No.9958686

>>9958665
>You dont work pointlessly
No. You DO work pointlessly. It is inherently socially wasteful. You are putting in useless work, just to "prove" you are credible. You are asking people to get bachelor's degrees to drive dump trucks.

Extra-curricular activities, to show you are credible should be for people who don't take their grades seriously. Not for people who DO take their grades seriously, but still cannot distinguish themselves from the pack because their grades mean very little.

>> No.9958688

>>9958177
>America pays for defense
>America pays to protect trade routes
>America trades with you at a multi trillion dollar deficit
>America vastly overfunds all of your international obligations, and enforces them
>People from across the world travel to the US for it's very high quality healthcare

It's easy to give away "free" shit when America's paying your bills, you tax your citizens half to death, and you're not afraid of a stagnate economy and bankruptcy.

>> No.9958692

>>9958685
Peterson is a meme stahp it

>>9958686
If thats what you think ok, you have the right to think so

>>9958688
Excuse me my country is one of the few that spends more than the required 2% of their GDP on the millitary, go bother a German anon about NATO spending.
Also also, let me go get a free health check up have a hip transplant just cause and enjoy a month on a free hospital bed with nurses bringing me free stuff and medicine.

>> No.9958697

>>9957962
>Because student debt says otherwise.
rising inequality says otherwise otherwise.

>> No.9958703

>>9958688
>implying America isn’t the primary beneficiary of its defense pact

The EU doesn’t need NATO at all at this point, and even when it did it was primarily so the US didn’t have to see more European countries flip over to the Soviets, and could station its military along the Soviet Union’s borders.

>> No.9958709

>>9958703
Come on fellow EU anons lets side with Russia and see how US likes it. Putin>Trump

>> No.9958714

I want to get back into school, is there a site you can can recommend that has some decent test to gauge my math skills.

>> No.9958743

>>9958597
nah biochem with research experience. I guess thats a shit degree too though unless you want to go to medschool or balls deep with a phd/postdoc.

>> No.9959341

>>9957962
It's way cheaper in other countries, even if you attend as an international student. It's also not a bad idea to attend local in state universities for your bachelors since it's not only cheaper but it's far more important where you do your masters and PhD than where you did your bachelors. You can also save a lot of money by taking a bunch of the lower level classes at a community college and transferring them to a university. You actually better off taking them at a community college anyways since universities teach those to rooms with over 300 students and the only thing graded by an actual prof will be your final (everything else will be handled by TAs and everyone will put the minimal effort because most students in those classes are just filling a requirement and not going further in stem anyways). Not to mention that by transferring into university from a community college you no longer have to do all the bullshit that first year students have to do (like live in dorms).

>> No.9959377
File: 621 KB, 630x838, socialism hard work.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9959377

>>9958697
what? if anything, student debt and rising inequality are both causes of the same shitty, inefficient economic system that allows lazy dipshits who inherit all of their wealth (CEOs, managers and their spoiled kids) to live off the hard work of others.

Both of them wouldn't be a thing under a socially planned economy, and today there is no excuse not to overcome capitalism given that the technology we'd need to replace it with a socialist system exists: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/1f22/0b10ad8f0ade08cc88dbea58e71f1ca6fdc4.pdf

>> No.9959385

>>9958177
*gets raped by jihadist*

>> No.9959386

>>9957962
It'd oy worthwhile if you're not retarded

>> No.9959395

>>9958229
>>9957962
What if you get a degree, but have an absolute shit GPA? I'm set to graduate in a year, am getting a degree in computer science, but my GPA is only 2.65. How fucked am I?

>> No.9959431

>>9959395
>>9959395
None at all? Just be confident in the interview, know your shit and noone cares about your GPA.

>> No.9959443

>>9959377
>communist
opinion disregarded

>> No.9959471

>>9958743
>nah biochem with research experience. I guess thats a shit degree too though unless you want to go to medschool or balls deep with a phd/postdoc.
of fucking course it is. Why would you think with a bachelor of science biochem degree you'd be worth more than like 80k to be a labmonkey?
t. biochem in a PhD program who is easily going to be scooped by industry because of connections in said program, and not have a pay ceiling under 6 figures

>> No.9959530

>>9959431
What if you're confident during the interview but are a college dropout? Is confidence and a piece of paper truly all that matters?

>> No.9959536

>>9959530
Well depends on the job i guess, confidence and knowledge is what matters, the paper just lets you legally practise a job, many people can open up someone but only a doctor can do it legally, get me?

>> No.9959539

>>9958664
60k is nothing, esp if you have a degree

you idiotic child

>> No.9959728

>>9958335
How do you quantify acquisition of knowledge without at least testing the student?

>> No.9959730
File: 310 KB, 595x496, TRINITY___FractalWrongness.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9959730

What about if the government agrees to loan you the money to learn how to do something productive but then refuses to reward your productivity?

>> No.9959738

>>9958244
Then you should be pushing for all American universities to have meaningful entrance exams.

>> No.9959773

Honestly what's with this guys obsessions with dindu's and coloured people? His entire arguments literally revolve around hysterically screaming about them.

>> No.9959913

if you think the equality complainers would stop if uni was free you're gravely mistaken.

my country essentially has free uni(can be paid with a single minimum wage month of work with lots of grats and subsidies aswell). the raycism and equality complainng just shifts to other places. they start crying about how the entrance exams to the uni are favoring rich people because people who take prep courses do better and prep courses cost money. they start complaining about how people who do better in highschool are rich and therefore higher education is only for the rich(logic of peace). they start complaining about how poor people have it tough in other places and that as a proxy makes higher education inaccesible. it never fucking stops

stupid people view education as the means to all ends, they view a person who is """"educated""" as superior. whenever someone puts any value on education i honestly think of them as a lower tier person - he just doesnt get it
in other words
>tfw too smart for education

>> No.9960058
File: 250 KB, 280x280, RecordStore Cat 02.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9960058

>>9958258

>> No.9960167

>>9959471
I wish I got offers of 80k, the most I got has been ~30k, bordering on minimum wage.

>> No.9960208

>>9960167
show pics or fuck off

>> No.9960221

>>9960208
>show pics of an interview
I'll get right on that. Just search any biochem/lab tech/QA/QC in Ontario and you'll see $16/h, with 2-5 years experience needed.
This is the part where you go
>hurr durr Ontario
I'll wait.

>> No.9960231

Yes, if you are rich.
Yes, if you know how and where you will apply the knowledge.
No otherwise.

>> No.9960248

>>9958576
where are the good bio major jobs?

>> No.9960250

>>9958550
yeah have fun setting up your own multimillion dollar lab

>> No.9960253

>>9958649
the value of a DEGREE is all that you said in your second paragraph. An education is different.

>> No.9960257

>>9958697
degrees don't get you on the good side of that growing income chasm; it's actually the opposite.

>> No.9960326

>>9960257
No it actually does get you on the "good side".
The prevailing thought on why inequality is rising is due to positive externalities associated with human capital. To put it simply, high-skilled workers want to work with other high-skilled workers. Moreover they DON'T want to mix with low-skilled workers. Businesses do a ton of work trying to signal and screen potential hires by offering them "free" services, on top of a well paying wage. To put it bluntly there is a premium on highly skilled work right now, and these positive externalities lead to an expanding income inequality. There is a significant difference in pay and opportunities between the jump between high school education and a bachelor's degree. If you get a graduate degree, it's significantly better.
>in before anecdotal, "Well i got a psych degree and i'm getting paid shit as a social worker".
You're getting paid shit because people getting psych degrees are a dime a dozen.
As much as this pisses /sci/ off, CS degrees get a starting salary of 50k because not everyone gets CS degrees - and the current market is in high demand for people proficient in operating computers/high tech machines also people capable of managing global capital.

>> No.9960338

>>9958177
""free""
all of those are payed for by stolen moneym

>> No.9960352

>>9958244
>>9958616
brainlets. Let me explain to you why having a more educated population is important. If you only give free education to the good students, they will be educated, and they will realize that they poses a valuable skill/knowledge. They will notice that their country is too small of a market and will emigrate to Canada/US. This is called "brain-drain". To grow markets in your own country and actually make it a worthwhile place for skilled/knowledgeable people to live, your entire population should be more educated and capable. All citizens should be educated for free if your goal is to improve the productivity of the country.

>> No.9960365

>>9960326
the fundamental way to improve is to encourage more trade. This is because having multiple income-flows from different sources reduces the burden on you associated with poor quality work; you have a larger support network to "weather the storms" - don't put all your eggs in one basket.
And a higher level of education. Yes it's true starting salaries overall are worse than back in the early 2000's, but that doesn't mean education is useless. In fact it's more important than ever before - considering how fast technological expansion is happening.

>> No.9960376

>>9960352
>they poses a valuable skill/knowledge
Lmao assmad esl

>> No.9960406

>>9960352
>Let me explain to you why having a more educated population is important.
By saying nothing of interest at all.
>brain-drain
don't pretend you understand what this concept is by reading some pop-sci bullshit.
If you're ACTUALLY interested in the topic (let's be honest, you're not), you need to read the ACTUAL paper which founded the concept of the "brain drain" insofar as there are positive externalities between different lines of production using skilled workers:

http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/%7Epromer/Endogenous.pdf

THEN understand why your pointless blathering about education makes zero sense by reading this:

https://msu.edu/~conlinmi/teaching/EC860/signallingscreening/SpenceQJE1973.pdf

>> No.9960514

>>9959536
But do you need a piece of paper to "legally" become a programmer?

>> No.9960516

>>9957962
No, we shouldn't invest in education and leave the next generation out and see if it's worthwhile after that

>> No.9960517

>>9960514
Yes, that piece of paper is a contract. Without a legal employment contract, you are not a programmer, just an unemployed bum with some skills

>> No.9960534

>>9960514
For programming, experience goes a long way. Build a portfolio whether it be game development, some apps, a database, whatever. It's like you are asking, "Do you need to a piece of paper to legally become an artist?"

I honestly have no idea why people bother getting a degree in computer science when you can do everything you want to in the comfort of your own home. Exception would be going for phd and working on AI.

>> No.9960566

>>9960253
>An education is different.
Exactly. Which is why you can't meaningfully solve the problem of education by saying, "Everyone should get degrees weeeeee! Falcore, take me to lands unknown!!"

In order for education to mean something, people have to be allowed to fail.

>> No.9960596

>>9957962
Only if you're not retarded

>> No.9960657

>>9960534
Structure. Those portfolio "projects" are nebulous and intentionally nonspecific because it's just a line to pass off the question.
If you applied for database and all you have are single player games, hr filters you out automatically.
Degrees are at colleges with internships, jobs, specific projects to join, and professors with connections.

>> No.9960666

>>9958219
LMAO look at this buttmad murican
>the refugee meme
America is a shithole get over it

>> No.9960674

>>9960566
You think degrees are the only form of educational attainment?

>> No.9960679

>>9957962
>paying for college
Should've gotten scholarships kiddo

>> No.9960905

>>9958688
>what is soft power?

>> No.9961010

>>9960674
No. I pretty explicitly said degrees for the sake of degrees (any form of education, in fact) are not a valid form of education.
For many, who college isn't for them, there is apprenticeship programs, and trade schools - which again, would be meaningless if people were not allowed to fail.

>> No.9961366

>>9957962
>Is education even a worthwhile investment anymore?

No, it's a scam, and you will never be allowed in a position of wealth and authority unless you are 100% controllable (read: stupid)