/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.9937551]

Let's talk imagination, our mental abilities,
the path to becoming creative in all aspects from problem solving to artsy arts.

First I bet my lunch money on that you weren't taught at the school how exactly you can exercise to become a creative a story teller for example, the rules of your mental abilities and how you can enhance them.
Would you like to learn now? .. Or did I lose my lunch money and you can now share the secrets to becoming the sir of problem solving.

[Anonymous No.9937577]

>>9937551
>First I bet my lunch money on that you weren't taught at the school how exactly you can exercise to become a creative a story teller for example, the rules of your mental abilities and how you can enhance them.
>Would you like to learn now?

i like learning

[Anonymous No.9937797]

>>9937577

And I would really like to state that I love you for your liking to learn, but that'd be really gay so I will just say, that's is awesome, I like you for that.

Ready for the first fact that will blow your mind and question your own physical and mental abilities that you possess!

1.
<- you are not capable of drawing -anything- in that box that you have not already seen in your life.

Now tell me, what does this mean to the options you have when a teacher asks you to write a story or to draw a picture for example?

[Anonymous No.9937928]

>>9937797
I could draw a white man with black nuts and I’ve never seen that in my life.

[Anonymous No.9937930]

>>9937928
OP btfo

[Anonymous No.9937934]

>>9937797
>Now tell me, what does this mean to the options you have when a teacher asks you to write a story or to draw a picture for example?

you're being a little obvious here. why don't you say something more interesting?

[Anonymous No.9939194]

>>9937928
>>9937934

Of course it has to be obvious at first, let's not bite too big of a chunk at once.

And that is very lovely you already tackled the next step in how to enhance your imagination,
yes, the rule still applies, you can not draw anything you have not seen in your life,
so can you tell how can that still apply in that scenario you told?

[Anonymous No.9939197]

>>9939194

Once we have that one rule settled,
we can jump straight to the part where we can systemically practise our problem solving skills and just imagination in general.

[Anonymous No.9939211]

>>9939194
>so can you tell how can that still apply in that scenario you told?

in what scenario?

this is a different anon
>>9937928

but i'll assume that's what you meant.

every part of what someone draws is based on things we've seen before.

"creativity" is just recombining those things that we've already seen.

[Anonymous No.9939216]

>>9939211
cont.

but you can't make something from nothing. we're all working with some "basis" of things we've seen before. even in the most abstract sense, we work with primitives like curves, colors, shapes, lines, etc.

these are things we've seen before. of course, if i wanted to nitpick, i could dispute the definition of "seen". blind people can still draw.


>Now tell me, what does this mean to the options you have when a teacher asks you to write a story or to draw a picture for example?

your options consist entirely of things you already know.

[Anonymous No.9939533]

>>9939211
>>9939216

I'll rephrase the question to you, I'll tell you if you don't want to try.. but I bet you want to try at least.

I can only draw my observations into this box, an absolute rule.

Using this rule, how can I create the abstract, something "seemingly yet unseen" how to to enter world of fantasy, fiction by using these drawings of boxes.
Furthermore.. to give a satisfying answer to your imagination by just using these drawings of the already seen.
A must know in order to practise problem solving, designing so on..

[Anonymous No.9939539]

>>9939211
>>9939216

ah forgot.. adding to the above, the answer is in a form where you have drawings in these boxes of things you have already seen, and then showing how you come up with "imaginative" stuff by using these drawings - not in a form of words.

[Anonymous No.9939544]

>>9939539

for the record, the post above isn't by the same anon as me here:

>>9939211
>>9939216

[Anonymous No.9939557]

>>9939539

why are you "adding" to my replies? you're not me.

>>9939533

i don't understand what you're asking. weren't my previous replies good answers?

>I can only draw my observations into this box, an absolute rule.
>Using this rule, how can I create the abstract, something "seemingly yet unseen" how to to enter world of fantasy, fiction by using these drawings of boxes.

who is the observer here? if i can only draw things *i've* already seen, then equivalently, it's impossible to draw something i haven't seen. this follows from any reasonable, literal interpretation of your rule.

[Anonymous No.9939562]

>>9939557
cont.

to say any more than that, i'd need much more precise definitions of "seen", "unseen" and "seemingly unseen".

[Anonymous No.9939573]

>>9939562
>>9939557
cont.
furthermore, to define an abstract concept such as imagination to a bound system of equations with freely formed variables.

[Anonymous No.9939575]

>>9939573

dick.

[Anonymous No.9939584]

>>9939575
just a joke, lad. that was my first post ITT and this will be my last.
I'm curious though to see where this goes

[Anonymous No.9939592]

>>9939573

if you assume that your brain and memory work like a boltzmann machine, you could say that one's "imagination" or "creativeness" are just low-energy states in your mind. you memorize and associate concepts and this creates a low energy states that your mind may reach given the necessary external stimuli/randomness.

[Anonymous No.9939594]

>>9939592

your mind is just recombining things in different ways.

[Anonymous No.9939599]

>>9939573
>>9939592
>>9939594
cont.

so i'm sure that "imagination" is not as abstract a concept as it seems.

[Anonymous No.9939611]

Nice thread. Appreciate the good conversation. I hated creativity in gradeschool because I was good at learning things that I was instructed to learn which was what drew me to math and science in the first place, they told me how to do it so I just did what I was told. I rejected the arts because I didn't know "how" and none of it made sense, and you're absolutely right that no one gave me instruction on creative writing. Looking back, at least now I have moral justification for plagiarizing almost every creative writing story I ever had to do in elementary school. They were all mashups of things that I had seen before.

The worst was in grade 6 we had to write a short story as an in school test, so instead of going through the creative process and all that, we had three hours in class to just write something and hand it in. I extra-panicked and the best I could come up with was I plagiarized this escape the room flash game I played the night before (Crimson Room anyone?). It was horrible. It was like a spoken word interpretation of my thoughts trying to solve the puzzles in the game. I got a good mark for using a lot of descriptive language and the teacher was dumb enough to think that some of the descriptions were metaphors even though I was literally describing how to solve a puzzle game I played on the internet and submitting it in school.

[Anonymous No.9939651]

>>9939611

i don't see what point OP's trying to make.

yes, our mental output is largely dependent on our mental input. but people don't just memorize things. our brains associate them and find new representations.

if you're looking for a definition of "creativity", perhaps it's the ability to usefully associate important concepts. it's kind of a shame that this ability is so often wasted on the arts.

[Anonymous No.9939653]

>>9939611

I enjoyed reading that, I hope you will also like what is to come on this thrad :) and that Crimson room, I've come across to that game, played it a long time ago too,
but since you are great at copying, that means you have the potential to become as good as a master of a topic, by copying, to go beyond, that's the difficult part.
Where are you now in life, engineering?

[Anonymous No.9939659]

>>9939557

I will try one more time.. phrasing's hard..

The question is -
1. You can only draw pictures of things you have already seen in your life.
-> draw something you have seen in your life to that box.
2. By using these drawings in these boxes, create something entirely new, something you do have seen, but can not be observed as in the drawing, as dragons, fairies, anime character are for example.

just.. this is a task that can not be effectively shown by using words.

If this didn't make any sense to you, I will just show how so we can move to the next part.

[Anonymous No.9939697]

>>9939659
>By using these drawings in these boxes, create something entirely new, something you do have seen, but can not be observed as in the drawing, as dragons, fairies, anime character are for example.

this is a directive. not a question.

[Anonymous No.9939727]

>>9939659
I get the point you're making, it's a topic that comes up often in the arts.
can we really have original ideas? many say no, we just recombine the known in different ways. I assume what you were going for is that to draw something new in the box we have to think of two or more ideas and mix them together right?
but I disagree, because although 99% of ideas may be derivative of other ideas somehow, there must have been an entirely original idea at some point in the distant past for all the new ones to be based on
like the very first human who decided to draw something in the dirt with a stick, or hit a rock in rhythm, what were they copying?
my theory is that we build upon existing ideas by standing on the shoulders of those gone before and then add our own original pieces to it. and some obviously have more original pieces than others

[Anonymous No.9939749]

>>9939653
Chemistry phd year 3, it's going well, got 2 papers out, 2 in review, hope to grad with a competitive cv and get a job in thin films processes, coatings are going to get really big soon

[Anonymous No.9939765]

>>9939727

this is obvious. getting bored.

thread theme:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pifQm3IZ1tc

[Anonymous No.9939775]

>>9939765
ok then, reddit spacing, what's the next step in your master plan?
alternatively you could just draw something random with your eyes closed, that's technically original

[Anonymous No.9939782]

>>9939775

OP isn't being clear about what they want or are asking. i'm beginning to think i'm interacting with a dumbass or someone not so good with english. story of my life.

unrelated, but i'm feeling okay today. so if you mind-controlling aliens could leave the dial alone that would be great.

[Anonymous No.9940891]

OP here again, you few that have followed the conversation,
I can not draw anything that I haven't seen applies to this conversation also,
I'm not able to describe with words to you the thing I'm asking, since you have never seen it, you'd have to discover it for yourself, or I can show it you.. in the same sense as you can "rediscover" fire, or I can show you how it's done.

Here is what I meant, in it's most simple form, we will get into more complex parts, don't worry!
Anyways, does the.. directive, question make sense now?

[Anonymous No.9940899]

The question.
If you can only draw things you have seen, how can you create something that isn't real?

Well here's the answer to that at its simplest form, but even that is quite powerful, you can begin to practise your imagination by just drawing something you have seen, then just drawing them.

Who wants to guess the next step before we can and will practise your problem solving and imagination for real?

[Anonymous No.9941360]

One more example..

It's not like it's a mystery where different designs.. the "abstract" and ideas come from, or what inspiration in the very deepest is, you can this easily artificially create "inspiration" yourself and create literally anything from creating fictional stories to enhancing your problem solving skills, but to that later.. and this applies to all humans, even you have the potential to do amazing art too for example,
just a matter of knowing how and practise, for some reason these teachings are just left out, although it's available for everyone basically.

But later, we will take the leap together to the better parts of all of this!

[Anonymous No.9942565]

>>9941360
I like it! please continue with the instructions.

[Anonymous No.9943116]

>>9942565

Most certainly!

[Anonymous No.9943159]

Very likely you have all been in a position where you have been asked to write a story, or an essay or something.. so let's practise how to do exactly that - 100% stress free by using the rule "you can not draw what you haven't seen"

There is only one 1 very simple step to this, but let's divide it into 3 even easier to all of you can get along.

1. Describe the way you want what you are seeing

[Anonymous No.9943186]

I bet you get the point..
we did skip a lot of steps thought, such as, you need to be able to "recognize" what you are seeing and connect this to a word of what you have also seen, but the premise is you can write and function like educated humans do etc.. so I hope you won't mind.

Onto to hte step 2! Where we can actually begin to create a story.

[Anonymous No.9943487]

1. Describe what you are seeing, have seen, singular
2. Describe what you have seen, plural.
Describe the thoughts that came to be from seeing.

I'm trying to keep this as compact and easily understandable as possible, so there is a lot of magic involved for now, we will get there!

Making sense so far?

[Anonymous No.9943488]

And you are totally free to guess and draw the 3rd part, which I hope.. that will take you to a whole another level in creativity.

[Anonymous No.9943553]

>>9943488
They thought I was an autistic faggot. Indeed, I was trying to shake their hand.

[Anonymous No.9943731]

OP, you are describing 'an artist's silence' and vanishing points. It is better if you attach a 'call to color' memory method when you are guiding people through a creative landscape.

All GREEN ants carry GREEN resources back to the nest.

[Anonymous No.9943737]

>>9943731
This method allows for GREEN CHAIN RULE succession-logic: Allowing memory to become a graftable OR exchangeable skillset.

[Anonymous No.9943744]

>>9937551
abstract merchant saved

[party rawcocker No.9943750]

Let me namedrop some relevant names to move towards the study such things in a proper philosophy and notation.
Peirce(the triad and categories)
Deleuze
Simondon
Bateson
Deacon
Whitehead
Bergson

ignore any dialectic or analytic methodology

[Anonymous No.9943819]

>>9937551

Genuinely interested in what you are saying, OP. Is there a link to this topic, line of thought, whatever, where I don't have to wade through the comments made by 14 year old trolls? I would rather go straight to the point.

[Anonymous No.9944248]

>>9943819

Unfortunately not.. you can google as much as you want thought, I'm using the study of all models, which is a rather exclusive club for now. What we are doing here were are modelling the observed present reality, and modelling these models by using models, such as words,
I'm just honey coating this to make it a lot easier to understand, in reality this has little to none to do with "drawing", it's just learning how to use your muscles in variety of ways - drawing to create cool stuff for now.

I'll get for you the 3rd part, so you get to know what's uuuuup

[Anonymous No.9944264]

>>9943819

But I will also make all the relevant information from hereeasily available for you! At the moment there really aren't that much, just 3 pictures, 1 1 2, these ones are sold to you as
"how to create a story with the rule you can not drawn anything you can not see"

Describe what you are seeing
https://i.imgur.com/aRf6x87.jpg

Describe what you are seeing
https://i.imgur.com/BOZyweI.jpg

Describe the pictures, your thoughts of what you have seen.
https://i.imgur.com/MNjOXo6.jpg

[Anonymous No.9944345]

>>9941360
>Dude! How did you get the idea to write a story about cat knights!?
Reminds me of DeviantArt artists and fan-fic writers. Ooh, you combined two things. Amazing. How 'creative'.
It's all trash. Most wannabe writers and artists, including many who think they are 'creative' just don't have the intellectual and aesthetic capacity to create anything truly significant and creative.
What you are describing isn't real creativity, it's a superficial imitation of it, which, to be fair, may be the best thing that many people have access to.
Real creativity comes from the brain deeply and subconsciously pondering and integrating various ideas, experiences, sensations, etc. and producing organic syntheses that exploit latent meanings and relationships among these inputs.
And believe me, people can tell the difference between real creativity and shallow recombination and juxtaposition.

[Anonymous No.9944355]

Part 3
- Describing with words the pictures of your days..

[Anonymous No.9944356]

an example of how you can describe, draw these pictures of your days in order to create a story.

Okay! Who wants to practise together a little bit?

[Anonymous No.9944361]

>>9944345

This is an absolutely simplification of how your imagination functions, close to its simplest. would you like to see a more complex representation, an instruction of how you can create something you'd call an "original" movie character, fantasy story plots, art? Where we take take into account all of your senses, not just observing with your eyes as what we have been doing here so far?

Using the same rule, you can not draw anything you haven't seen.

[Anonymous No.9944367]

>>9944345

Forgot..
all of that just to indicate to you, that in fact, every human's imagination goes by the same rules of nature, and how we can use these rules to systematically create a fiction story like Harry Potter?

It's not a challenge to imagine and desribe a kid standing at a train platform, all you need to do is combine two observations what we did right there with the cat and knight... That's exactly what J.K did thought in that part in order to create a story.

[Anonymous No.9944424]

>>9944367
Why would you say what you see? I honestly don't get it. The verbal encoding ruins memory.

[Anonymous No.9944436]

>>9944424

Well, a story is created words.. like if you are asked to create a 1000 word essay, you need to use words.

The only way you can create an essay is to say what you have seen.
Since you can only say, draw things you have seen.

[Anonymous No.9944438]

>>9937551
>Let's talk imagination
Imagination is a good thing, but it is no substitute for knowledge.
>I bet my lunch money
There is no wagering at 4chan, Grandpa.

[Anonymous No.9944440]

>>9944436

Yea I know, I wrote that, a little exhausted over here..

Stiil, saying and drawing what you have seen simplifies the process of creation, you don't have to spend time memorizing what you have seen, e.g.
looking at pictures of your childhood vs trying to memorize what happened in your childhood.

[Anonymous No.9944466]

>>9944440
I don't think so.

[Anonymous No.9944470]

>>9944466

About what don't you think so?
You are 100% free to show what you mean with an example.

[Anonymous No.9944672]

another example

1. picture, draw something you have seen in your life

2. Describe this you have seen using something else you have seen, whatever comes to your mind, words e.g.

Now you are free to draw these pictures the way you want - then again describe what you are seeing, have seen in order to enter the world of fantasy.

There is no right or wrong in this, though this is exactly how it's done at its simplest, would you like to try?

[Anonymous No.9945389]

>>9937551
First of all, search Roger von Oech. His books are the best regarding creativity.

Now, as for schools being suppresants of creativity, I have news for you. Just look at all these actors and comedians and artists and you will realize that they had an unquenchable inner drive to practice, exercise and express their gift. No school ever got that away.

[Anonymous No.9946253]

>>9945389

When it comes to science, we want something that useful for everyone, can be applied systematically, if you were to practise your imagination, how would you do it, were you thought?

Have you personally ever read Roger von Oech, did you notice that words are rather futile in teaching?

[Anonymous No.9947392]

>>9946253
>how would you do it, were you thought?
man I wish. making it through calc 2 wasn't too difficult, but I always thought it would be easier if I could imagine or visualize what the fuck it was that I was doing instead of just using formulas by rote memorization
I can write and play music, but that doesn't seem to have any applicability in math