Space force

[Anonymous No.9931160]

Thoughts on trump’s space force?

[Anonymous No.9931398]

It's gonna be yuge

[Anonymous No.9931411]

>>9931160
It will have the best people in it, just the best.

[Anonymous No.9931437]

>>9931160
an childish and imbecilic idea from a fucking moron

[Anonymous No.9931541]

>>9931160
At the moment, it makes no sense.. We can't put a man into orbit without buying a ticket on a Russian launch (technically I guess we could also buy a ride from China.) That being the case a "Space Force" that is co-equal with the other service branches is not needed.

There may well be efficiencies to be had in pooling responsibility for the various satellite assets run by the existing services under some unified command. That might require a few thousand personnel, possibly fewer. Not seeing a need for a separate military service branch there.

I'm also not seeing much of a mission for such a service, if it existed. Note that the USAF started a Man in Space program about the time Project Mercury was getting underway, and at one point planned to use Gemini spacecraft (and future modifications of that craft) to carry crews to and from space station(s). But they quickly came to the conclusion that there was actually nothing for their personnel to do -- the only real mission was espionage, and that was done more cheaply by satellites. The Soviets used every other Salyut station as a military espionage station, but they gave that up, too, as satellite tech enabled unmanned orbital assets to take over the job.

[Anonymous No.9932376]

First and foremost worth mentioning, you are asking this question on a predominantly lefty/pol/ board, a board that is radically liberal. You will not get an answer that is anywhere near unbiased, non anti-Trump, non anti-conservative, or non anti-military. Furthermore, anything even near pro-Trump will be attacked.
Now that that’s been established...

There’s two big things with the Space Force that are a good yield:
>It will have a military budget
And according to Trump, equal to that of the Air Force once all branch budgets have been readjusted.
>It may have already existed, and this may be either a revival or a declassification
As stated in Ronald Reagan’s autobiography, there was a space force.
https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/exopolitica/exopolitics_reagan05.htm
There’s one source for one quote, and I recall him also making a comment about a specific ship or station where he said something along the lines of, “I’d like to thank our troops up in space for keeping us safe,” which was initially interpreted as him making a comment on the satellites used in our nuclear defence systems. Then of course, there’s always the conspiracy theories about the Solar Warden, but that’s less /sci/ tier and more /x/ tier.

In practical speculation, I’m going to disregard that second point, but it’s still worth bringing to the table.
Now, if a space program was given funding equivalent to the Air Force, that’d be a budget of over 156 Billion dollars. NASA’s budget is only just 18 Billion dollars, which would make the Space Force’s budget 8.6 times higher (which in a way, doesn’t sound like some drastic increase, but is still much better regardless). So just keep that budget in mind. Prices for actually launching craft can also be drastically reduced if we use better fuel sources and methods learned through SpaceX and put them into practice, such as reusable launch stages.
(cont.)

[Anonymous No.9932384]

>>9931160
>STAR WARS
what did OP mean by this?

[Anonymous No.9932388]

>>9932376
Trump, conservatives, and the military are all retarded.

[Anonymous No.9932394]

Space Force is nothing less than making USSPACECOM it's own branch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Space_Command

[Anonymous No.9932414]

>>9932376 cont.
One SpaceX Falcon Heavy launch is estimated to cost around $90 Million, and they performed 18 launches in 2017 and have performed 15 launches in 2018 so far, so we can somewhat safely assume that SpaceX’s current average launches per year is at 18 per year, which would equate to only $1.6 Billion. Look at what SpaceX can do and is planning to do with only $1.6 Billion per year. Now think about what the USSF could do with $156 Billion. It’s a bit ludicrous and something to be proud of if you’re an American.

Now, let’s look at what the Space Force will really be if it can be compared to the Air Force like Trump claims:
A little over 5% of the personnel in the Air Force actually consists of pilots that actually fly aircraft for a living. This is probably going to be a similar composition for the Space Force in terms of how many of them will be actual Astronauts. That’s actually a really awesome number; there are currently 6 humans in space right now. That’d allow most likely a couple hundred times more Astronauts in space. And if you think this isn’t practical, mind that companies like Bigelow Aerospace are already looking at making inflatable habitation quarters that are practical and dirt cheap (at least in the space budget realm of things).
And most importantly is the R&D. With the budget and sheer scale of manpower, the Research and Development would likely be rapid. With a fast paced R&D comes both better technology and cheaper ways to do vital functions.

In all reality, probably a good 80-90% of the Space Force will just be office jobs, just like in the Air Force and other branches. And on top of that, it’s most likely that the Space Force will be primarily responsible for launching satellites vital for the other branches to function, and really just filling in that niche while freeing up space for the other branches to pour their budget into.

[Anonymous No.9932423]

>>9932388
Cool. Not too sure why you feel the need to state that, but I guess you have the right to.

[Anonymous No.9932482]

>>9932376
I think at this point we are just better off giving the Theoretical funding to SpaceX because NASA's Space program is complete and utter garbage. The Delta IV offers no signification advantage to bring to the table compare to SpaceX's Falcon Rocket which is reusable. NASA has lost all of its motivation to do things with their space program and are just heavily relying on the nostalgia and what the icon NASA has become to many people here in the United States just to keep the tiny fraction of their funding used to be in the late 60's to early 70's. The reason why NASA's space program will never be at its peak is because the whole reason why NASA focus so hard to make into space and eventually land on the moon is because of Political reasons, mainly to beat the Soviet to see who was top gun in Space.

Now they have achieved their goals and the Soviets have been long gone. There's no point to go to space anymore at least from the Government's perspective other just research. Not only that since Diversity hires are a thing now, the people are working on the space program right now are mainly compose of women and POCs who were just based on what Sex or Race, not on qualifying skills and experience which a lot of white men do have but are not hiring because they are "too white for the job". Hell if you look at a photo from Mission Control from the 60's and compare it to a modern photo of the NASA staff is, you will see the difference

[Anonymous No.9932609]

>>9932482
>Diversity hires are a thing now, the people are working on the space program right now are mainly compose of women and POCs who were just based on what Sex or Race, not on qualifying skills and experience which a lot of white men do have but are not hiring because they are "too white for the job”
I think that right there is another beauty of having the Space Force. As a veteran with a brother currently serving and a father who’s a veteran, I can confidently say that this just doesn’t exist in the military. Don’t get me wrong, there are people that damn well try to, but they lose massive respect and eventually just get either dumped on or thrown under the bus, and thus don’t last very long and will retire as soon as they can. There is a political divide when it comes to the military, and in a way it’s a good one. It prevents shit like that from happening, and you end up with a branch filled not with, “who has the best privilege card,” but with “who’s actually the damn best at this job.”
Of course, recognising this on /sci/ will usually get you shut down with, “HURRR DURR LOOK AT THIS /POL/TARD HES A FUCKIN FAGGOT,” even though you’re just trying to shed light on that subject.

And yeah, I agree, NASA is shit. They’ve still got a budget and recognition though and it’s all worth bringing up. You also have to mind the weird polarity of opinions on /sci/; most people tend to either shill aggressively for SpaceX and against NASA or shill aggressively for NASA and against SpaceX.

[Anonymous No.9932623]

>>9932388
The United States military is the sole reason we have relative peace in the world right now, and have since ww2.

[Anonymous No.9932708]

Retarded for one main reason...microgravity. We already have a hard time regulating the health for the small group of astronauts at the space station doing simple lab work/maintenance in orbit. Creating a dedicated military with possibly tens if not hundreds of individuals in orbit/traveling at one time is going to burn a hole in the governments pocket easily. The health issue mostly comes from the problem with an immune system adapted to earth gravity.

https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/research/news/functional_immune

Imagine the upkeep for the immune system of hundreds of individuals alone without factoring in other costs. A militarized version of space soldiers could easily see perfectly physically fit candidates kicked off simply because any attempt to maintain a decent budget will involve screening for latent viruses, diseases or possible gene defects that could trigger cancer from prolonged microgravity. A lot of experts have already said that more than likely the "optimal" candidates for long term microgravity exposure and space travel missions will have to be CRISPR born or influence in principle.

>>9932482
>>9932609

>diversity hires

The funny thing about this is a future space force generations from now will make anyone not genetically engineered an automatic ""diversity hire"" including whites because natural born humans of any race will be seen as sub-optimal in such a highly specialized military restrained by budget and different ecosystem.

[Anonymous No.9932715]

Just another mean to draw money from funds.

[Anonymous No.9932748]

>Sputnik
>Kennedy's moonshot speech
>Apollo 11
>Shuttle
>SpaceX
>Trump simply announcing Space Force

In terms of inspiring interest in space travel, how would you rank them?

[Anonymous No.9932760]

>>9931160
No thoughts whatsoever, its just a shitty meme to justify and give progressive and marketable aspect to the absolutely ludicrous military spending. General public will just gobble it up and think it justifies the entire budget while the actual money disappears to overbloated "defense" sector, just like the trillions before that. Attempted pentagon audits have become a comedic relief by now.

[Anonymous No.9932792]

>>9931160

Anything that helps taxpayer money to flow towards spaceflight technology or high tech in general is good. Space force may very well lead to such effect.

If you disagree with this you are a board certified brainlet.

[Anonymous No.9932798]

>>9932623
>The United States military is the sole reason we have relative peace in the world right now
HAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAAHAA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_imperialism
Jesus christ please be trolling, you create problems for yourselves to solve.

[Anonymous No.9932811]

>>9932798

American imperialism is a problem but pales in comparison to what many other major nations would do if they werent restrained by US threat

[Anonymous No.9932827]

>>9932811
You created those threats by playing game of thrones proxy war with the soviet union, your constant support of israel, and your blatant disregard for other nations sovereignty.

[Anonymous No.9932852]

>>9932827

>You created those threats by playing game of thrones proxy war with the soviet union

Good. As someone living in a post-communist country, I am glad the US was there to put pressure on the criminal imperialist regime that was Soviet Union. You cry about US imperialism but the world is being coddled by the US in comparison to the imperialism and genocide that would happen if the commies, islamists or niggers got that kind of power.

[Anonymous No.9932858]

>>9932827
I'm with >>9932852

You're a faggot taking things for granted.

[Anonymous No.9932859]

>>9931160
I believe Russia had one, so it's good to compete with the pinkos.
I think if the powers of the world compete more, that's only a good thing in terms of funding research.

[Anonymous No.9932861]

>>9932760
>disappears to overbloated "defense" sector
Not really, more like it disappears into the overbloated defense contractors. I know for a fact that we have too many ships and tanks, and no one wants to but those fucking white elephants. At this point it's only kept alive because America has such a marshal culture and keeping the funding to "muh troops" is the only way to win votes.

[Anonymous No.9932868]

>>9932852
>>9932858
Both of you cant read and are trying to argue a narrative. I had issue with that anons statement
>The United States military is the sole reason we have relative peace in the world right now
principally because
A) They arent the sole reason
B) Much of the global instability has been and continues to be created by American foreign policy

I did not make an emotional or humanitarian commentary on it.

[Anonymous No.9932885]

>>9932868

it is not the sole reason but geopolitically it is a very important one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pax_Americana

[Anonymous No.9932894]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVDXJgaTulc&t=144s&index=2&list=PLHE-_-JemJ35CF-v5gn72YHAZ0k-BVvO5 watch and subscribe..

[Anonymous No.9932912]

>>9931437
this
Yuro here, the fact that the literal mong in chief was able to make this retarded ''''idea''''''' happen tells me your Republic is absolutely fucked.

[Anonymous No.9932926]

>>9931437
>>9932912
How so? What's dumb/moronic about it?

[Anonymous No.9932951]

>>9932798
Ah yes, the typical viewpoint of someone who doesn't know history. Maybe it's not the sole reason, but it's the biggest reason, along with the diplomacy. Thanks to the UN and America's vast overseas presence, the entire world is going into war less and in fact we're overdue for Europe dragging anyone else into another world war.

I'll totally acknowledge the US muddies the waters of war probably more than anyone else nowadays, but still less than any other nation in this power has. Who would've been in our place the past 70 years? Soviet Russia? Nazi Germany? Wtvr China would evolve into? Cause they're all responsible for so many more deaths in their short time than we are in our entirety.
Possibly England, but we're assuming a world where America didn't rise power, and in that world England probably got crushed first.

[Anonymous No.9932969]

>ِDUDE SPACEFORCE LMAO!!!!!
What a stupid idea. When someone invents something more efficient (and economic) than a chemical rocket, then you can talk about a space force.

[Anonymous No.9932972]

>>9932912
>Yuro here
Opinion discarded

[Anonymous No.9932974]

>>9932951
Ah yes typical strawmen. see
>>9932868

[Anonymous No.9932975]

>>9931160
Fucking love it. Sign me up. I don't care if I'm designing space craft or I'm a peon monitoring the cold vastness of space for aliens. Sign me the fuck up.

Also is everyone who's against this idea unaware that last year China lost control their space station and it hauled ass through our atmosphere and thankfully into an ocean?
Had that hit Sydney or Moscow or wherever else it flew over just hours before impact the whole world would be in some Captain Hindsight led frenzy to put into place a system that safely takes down rogue or decommissioned satellites.
For once we're jumping out in front of the issue and you can't help yourselves but safely give this guy shit from the comfort of your home.

I understand the US military has a pretty bad reputation, but our tax dollars go into their R&D and that's given you everything from GPS to corrosion resistant coatings on your vehicles to non-stick pots & pans (for free btw. The tech is just handed out to make the world a better place), and eventually a system that safely takes down satellites (which will also help the part of global warming caused by that heat mirror we've created).

But oh no, fuck that, Trump is Dumb and is idiot moron xxxDDD hxor4lyfe

Fuck you guys. You ungrateful, whiney bunch of do-nothing crybabies. I won't even complain if we only use it to take out everyone else's communication satellites.

So for me, it's all exciting upside, and nothing I'd ever complain about.

[Anonymous No.9932976]

>>9932969

we have barely even scratched a surface when it comes to the potential of chemical rockets, see recent SpaceX advances

[Anonymous No.9932987]

>>9932974
Ah yes, I already addressed those points.
Not sure how you think it's a strawman considering the world, as a whole, is at its most peaceful era since we crawled out the caves, due in large part to US worldwide miliatry presence.

Or perhaps we should just pull out of the Red Sea and let Somalian pirates take over?
Cause there's 2 countries the budget to have such a military presence, and China doesn't give a fuck if it ain't about China.

[Anonymous No.9932988]

>>9932975
Could this be more of a shill post?

[Anonymous No.9932990]

drumpf is dumb retard moron racist bigot misogynist brainlet impeach now we need M A D A M P R E S I D E N T

[Anonymous No.9932993]

>>9932388
>Imagine if Nass has he same funding as the military
*Trump makes a branch of the military dedicated to space exploration*
>Wow what a retard

[Anonymous No.9932997]

>>9932988
Probably not. Don't care. I'm as pro Space Force! as it gets

[Anonymous No.9932998]

>>9932993

well said, you just cannot please some people

[Anonymous No.9933005]

>>9932976
Last time I checked, SpaceX launch prices were comparable to that of other companies.

[Anonymous No.9933027]

>>9933005

SpaceX launch prices are among the lowest in the industry, rivaling Indians and Russians. However they achieved this without the benefit of third world wages, which is significant because labor costs are the main reason why rockets are expensive. So SpaceX is arguably the most efficient rocket company when you take this into acccount. Another consideration is that SpaceX has yet to achieve their goal of full and rapid reusability, 24 hour turnaround and high launch rate. So one would not expect large cost decreases just yet. But they will come, technological path towards such operations is clear now.

[Anonymous No.9933075]

>>9931160
This seems like a clear precursor to establishing a permanent moon base or a future Mars colony. Space Force seems like a natural division so the Air Force can focus on Earth and Space Force can focus on space.
>inb4 Drumpf

[Anonymous No.9933079]

>>9931541

XS-1 comes in 2021, that's the basis for the space force more or less. And the XS-1, and the space force, are both creations of Congress and not Trump.

[Anonymous No.9933088]

>>9931160
What is going to be cut in order to pay for it?

[Anonymous No.9933104]

>>9932926
1st, there's nobody to fight in space
2nd, space is neutral territory
3rd, other nations may see an American space force as a threat/challenge to the neutrality of space, and be forced to make their own space force

This will cause an escalation of armed forces entering space and then it's just a matter of time till an conflict occurs and when it happens, it'll be an conflict between armed forces trained in fighting, not negotiations. The act of creating a space force serves no purpose other than to ensure a space war occurring some time in the future. It's like saying "I want a war. I don't care with who just give me a god damn war. And I don't wanna live through this war either. This war needs to happen 50 years after I'm dead."

It's the most idiotic and asinine thing anyone, in regards to space, in the history of all human kind, and that's not hyperbole, it's a fact that I'd challenge anyone to try and refute.

[Anonymous No.9933107]

>>9933104
>1st, there's nobody to fight in space
False.
China and Russia both have very developed space programs and satellites that are of strategic military importance.

>2nd, space is neutral territory
So are the oceans. We still need a navy though.

>3rd, other nations may see an American space force as a threat/challenge to the neutrality of space, and be forced to make their own space force
Again, the major powers have been on a path towards militarization of space for more than a decade.
The US is just the first one to call it as its own dedicated branch.

[Anonymous No.9933128]

>>9933088

Probably social security or medicaid. It's a defense program so at least it means it's funding is guaranteed, hopefully NASA will benefit.

[Anonymous No.9933134]

>>9933107
One last point, the Outer Space Treaty makes any military force in space illegal.

>China and Russia both have very developed space programs and satellites that are of strategic military importance.
Sattelites are vastly different than armed forces stationed on site.

>So are the oceans. We still need a navy though.
The oceans have strict maritime rules/laws. And I'ld compare space more with Antarctica, which also has a treaty forbiding military use.

>Again, the major powers have been on a path towards militarization of space for more than a decade.
Source?!? AFAIK all major powers ratified the outer space treaty forbidding militarization of space. Are you just pulling shit out of your ass to pretend to have an argument? Trump apologists have a history of using "alternative-facts" when reality doesn't suit them. I'd suggest you keep your facts to the real world or GTFO.


But even if everything you said is true, you're missing the point entirely

It's an unnecessary escalation of military might. We're currently cooperating in space with foreign countries we call our enemy. Future space travel, exploration, and research will require help from all nations. In space, there are no invisible lines which we call borders of counties. It's an unprecedented opportunity for cooperation and peace time and pissing away that unprecedented and impossibly rare opportunity is a militarily poor decision. It would be a wasted opportunity to militarize space.

[Anonymous No.9933137]

>>9933104

>3rd, other nations may see an American space force as a threat/challenge to the neutrality of space, and be forced to make their own space force

So a space race? Fucking finally. Such a thing would be very beneficial to the advancement of spaceflight technology.

[Anonymous No.9933139]

>>9933134
>The oceans have strict maritime rules/laws.
Which go out the window the second a war starts

[Anonymous No.9933143]

>>9933088

it almost does not matter what is cut in this case, spending taxpayer money on high technology is the best use of it, even better than welfare and social programs (and I say it as a social democrat)

[Anonymous No.9933147]

>>9933134

>One last point, the Outer Space Treaty makes any military force in space illegal.

military forces in Earth orbit are legal under the treaty as long as there are no WMDs

[Anonymous No.9933156]

>>9932482
>Not only that since Diversity hires are a thing now, the people are working on the space program right now are mainly compose of women and POCs who were just based on what Sex or Race, not on qualifying skills and experience which a lot of white men do have but are not hiring because they are "too white for the job". Hell if you look at a photo from Mission Control from the 60's and compare it to a modern photo of the NASA staff is, you will see the difference
Assuming that the minorities or women working in space programs are only hired because of their colour/gender is just being a bigoted asshole

[Anonymous No.9933164]

>>9933134
>borders are just invisible lines
>muh Drumpf
Why am I not surprised

[Anonymous No.9933167]

>>9933143
But is funding an un-needed "Space Force!!!" really the most efficient way to use those funds?

[Anonymous No.9933172]

>>9933104
What if things like GPS and NASA were huddled under the branch? Currently they're under the US Air Force. The creation of a Space Force just gives them a more specialized branch rather than one that's shared between the 3 main branches.
Did you know all US astronauts are officially Air Force pilots?
Also there's plenty of other non military things to do in space.

[Anonymous No.9933173]

Space Force should be called Space Navy.

Because I'm autistic that way and LoGH was the shit

[Anonymous No.9933182]

>>9931160
The Space Force is like the F-22: Way ahead of its time, but extremely costly and not very useful currently. You can bet it will become useful later on, though.

[Anonymous No.9933198]

>>9933182
I think part of it is just Trump trying to motivate funding towards space exploration (Or someone in his administration who suggested it to him).

[Anonymous No.9933200]

>>9932798
The way these people reason is that when you're defending US imperialism, then it's ok to make "Might Makes Right" arguments.

Perhaps they will selectively decide that things like mass human death and suffering don't matter, the "sovereignty" of a US ally (such as Israel or Saudi Arabia) matters more than that; while at the same time ignoring or defending Israel or Saudi's blatant war crimes and human rights violations, and how they are terrorist rogue states.

They have no consistency and will alter their values and moral compass whenever and how ever it's convenient for their argument.

[Anonymous No.9933206]

>>9933198
Agreed, if anything this space force is looking less like a purely military organization and more like the Federation's Starfleet from Star Trek.

[Anonymous No.9933239]

>>9933172
>What if things like GPS and NASA were huddled under the branch?
>what if
I wouldn't consider that a bad thing if that's all, but is that what Trump is planning? Currently, we have our mad god the President shouting "SPACE FORCE!!" while picking out the logos and everyone is forced to imagine what this new force is suppose to do. People imagine what they want to believe, so it's much easier for Trump to get approval if everyone is imagining what they want. The Trump administration does this all the time with bills in congress it wants to pass, often hurrying the process along under forced deadlines so nobody can learn the details.

So with so few details of what this "Space Force" is meant to do, and everyone's imaginations are running wild, the question of "what do you think of Space Force," the real question should be do you trust the president or not to handle this? The majority of Americans might say no.

[Anonymous No.9933247]

>>9933167
More efficient than it just winding up in the Pentagon's black budget anyway.
What do you consider 'needed' anyway?
I'm with other anon. Tech research is far more important than welfare or medicaid or wtvr. Tech has saved not lives than medicine ever will, if 'lives' is your definition of 'need'.
And before you go off on 'space missiles save lives' that's not all they'll do. NASA is a part of the US military. They've given so much more than space missiles with humans in them.

[Anonymous No.9933262]

>>9933247
>Tech has saved not (more?) lives than medicine ever will

This is such a dumb comment, what can you possibly mean by that?

[Anonymous No.9933268]

>>9932623

The United States has been acting like a warmongering African dictatorship since 1945.

[Anonymous No.9933283]

>>9933239
>What if
That's pretty much exactly what will happen, + some more programs they can think of, including safely taking down rogue satallites.
The US military does so much more than blow shit up.

Also satallite missile defense systems don't sound like a bad idea. We guide most of our precision equipment from space anyway. We're just putting up a new branch instead of these things being under the Air Force or Navy. It makes sense it would be a Space themed name considering it concerns itself entirely outside our atmosphere.
And all the non-top-secret tech that's researched in the name of defense is made available to the public for free. Patents just handed out. Your commercial airplanes are more efficient because the air force developed better wing designs.

I see why you think it's a dumb idea now. You're too dumb to think another human you view as evil and dumb is capable of producing a good idea. You're too wrapped up in some hollywood level viewpoint of good and evil where obviously you're the good guy and it's not all actually some gray bucket of worms constantly trying to figure out it's best fit.

But I promise you, this worm goes right at the top. Space Force!

[Anonymous No.9933296]

>>9933262
Shit dude, Romans built running water and sewage systems. It's not high tech, but it's tech, and that alone has saved more than all the hospitals put together.

But let's say we find a way to cap carbon emissions. Literally, not politically. Would not air free of these emissions be wholly more beneficial to entire planet than figuring out a way to cure latent ailments?
That's tech vs medicine.
Tech is better.

[Anonymous No.9933312]

>>9931160
>space force
Possibly the biggest and cringiest misconception of the last year. The space force will just be an unification of the Space Command (satellites and space EW.recon), parts of the Global Strike Command (the hypersonic missiles, non-nuclear IRVs etc.) and Space and Missile Defense Command (OTH radars, THAAD, GBIs etc.) into a single centralized command. It won't be fucking space marines, rods from god and orbital particle weapons. The only significant addition in the next 20 years I can think of would be hypersonic recon planes (like the SR-72) and the deplayment of MW-tier lasers as aerial CIWS.

[Anonymous No.9933342]

>>9931160
trying to redo that thing Reagan talked about doing with lasers to hype up the not-conflict with North Korea, presumably so that fewer people will pay attention to his treason

[Anonymous No.9933373]

>>9933268
>the entire developed world puts the US in charge of their defense because we do it for free
>people get butthurt when in the course of providing these free defense services, the US furthers its own goals

maybe if europe hadn't spent all their money on immigrants and hadron colliders they could clean up their own backyard.

[Anonymous No.9933381]

Hey Jimmy, you know how we've been having recruitment problems for the military? Yeah, yeah, so I got this idea see. All these kids these days, they love the space. Space Wars and Space Trek, they just love it. So I was thinkin', lets create a new branch of the military and call it SPACE FORCE. The kids will go nuts for it, right? And then, once they sign up, you have them patrolling the "space" around Iraq ha ha ha.

[Anonymous No.9933397]

There was a thread on /pol/ on this.
Can you guys justify their claims?
They say that we can harvest minerals in space. Sounds pretty retarded and expensive.
Some argue to protect our satelittes from other countries.
Some also argue so we can further advance our technology and space travel.

[Anonymous No.9933403]

>>9932993
I don't agree with the practicality of this point.

The whole point of the Space Force was the reduce the bureaucracy found within the Air Force Space Command, however I don't see how the creation of the Space Force wouldn't create bureaucracy between itself and NASA.

NASA already has several facilities and educated researchers on GE payroll that are dedicated to a myriad of disciplines regarding space exploration and space comprehension. If there were to be a space force, a large amount of the budget would be going towards the training; either for the enlisted personnel to do blue-collared jobs or officers to learn what NASA employees already know how to do. Including that, the Space Force would have to either build several new bases or have joint passes with other branches or NASA facilities in order to conduct... well, whatever the point of this branch is. If the point of the branch is to take over AFSC, then I'm predicting this whole thing is going to be a shitshow where three different government agencies are going to be arguing over who can do the thing.

[Anonymous No.9933409]

>>9933397

>They say that we can harvest minerals in space. Sounds pretty retarded and expensive.

It is. Harvesting minerals in space only makes sense if they are also used in space.

>Some argue to protect our satelittes from other countries.

Possibly.

>Some also argue so we can further advance our technology and space travel.

This is probably the most powerful argument in favor of space force. If it means more funding for space tech research, I am all for it.

[Anonymous No.9933410]

>>9933403
NASA has been off on a fucking tangent since the space shuttle. they do climate change studies and a bunch of other bullshit that is not in their original scope. there needs to be an organizational restructuring.

[Anonymous No.9933432]

>>9933410
NASA still has projects related to spacefare and aerospace but they are not funded nearly as much as they could be in order to meet their potential. the reason why they are doing things like climate change studies and the like is because they are best agency for doing such things thanks to their aeronautical equipment; ever since the space shuttle program got canned the fixation with aerospace died down and the scope of the agency changed, yes.

However, ever since the private space industry has become a thing interest in space exploration has exploded, and there should be no reason why the government should give NASA more funding now that it has a reason to go back to it's roots. What is the point of making a new military branch with an 8b+ budget that would effectively just be trying to do the same job as AFSC or NASA? Why not just give more funding to NASA now that they are touching base with private companies?

[The Lord No.9933434]

ANAL IMPLANT

[Anonymous No.9933444]

>>9933432
>because they are best agency for doing such things thanks to their aeronautical equipment

scoping a government agency just because they conveniently have the hardware is asinine and just asking for pork seeking behavior. if you want to do atmospheric studies, hand that tasking over (with appropriate capital funding) to NOAA as per their mission statement.

what creating a new military branch does is allows the president almost direct control over space programs. NASA is a bunch of "muh resistance" liberals who go out of their way to torpedo executive directives. military personnel don't have that luxury.

[Anonymous No.9933451]

>>9933444
NOAA couldn't do it as well as NASA because studying the atmosphere is best done from space, and that's NASA's domain

[Anonymous No.9933463]

>>9933451
yeah and thats the problem. NASA's scope is generalized as being "space stuff". well, that encompasses quite a bit more than it did when NASA was created. top down organizations, particularly ones without a profit motive, don't do well with broad mission statements like that.

[Anonymous No.9933477]

>>9932798
Don't worry, I don't know where you're from, but there isn't a single American politician that doesn't want the US to stop being the "world police", so, someday soon, the US military will stop operating in the parts of the world that matter to you. What a happy day for you that will be!

[Anonymous No.9933482]

>>9933477
lol, europoors REEE to the moon every time an american politician even hints at scaling back the free defense services.

[Anonymous No.9933596]

>>9931160
Probably a waste of money, but to deny the coming need of some military force in space is foolish. I don't think it warrants a new department of the military, but that's where things are headed, especially considering how many important things are up there, including things that shouldn't be up there.

[Anonymous No.9933884]

>>9932987
I think its a strawman because you are arguing against something I didnt say either because you are illiterate or not interested in what I actually wrote.
> Maybe it's not the sole reason....
I said it wasnt the sole reason and that is it, the rest of your point is inference.
>I'll totally acknowledge the US muddies the waters of war probably more than anyone else nowadays, but still less than any other nation in this power has.I'll totally acknowledge the US muddies the waters of war probably more than anyone else nowadays, but still less than any other nation in this power has.
I said they created their own problems via imperalism. I didnt give a qualitative ranking to other nations. The rest of your point is inference.
>Or perhaps we should just pull out of the Red Sea and let Somalian pirates take over?
Cause there's 2 countries the budget to have such a military presence, and China doesn't give a fuck if it ain't about China.
Again this is not salient to my point
>as a whole, is at its most peaceful era since we crawled out the caves, due in large part to US worldwide miliatry presence.
Given that you arent qualifying your criteria this is extremely debatable. Moreover it is once again not salient to my point.

[party rawcocker No.9933895]

>>9933164
cringe

[Anonymous No.9933901]

>>9933884
Oh ok you're just retarded

[Anonymous No.9933907]

>>9933477
You have the same issue this other guy has of arguing to your inference rather than what I wrote. However just for fun il say that if US politicians actually think that they have been acting in direct opposition to it as far back as you care to go. There isnt a single US military base in my country, we are fine.

[party rawcocker No.9933917]

>>9932987
>Or perhaps we should just pull out of the Red Sea and let Somalian pirates take over?
please, give those poor fishermen their livelihoods back and allow them to fight against the real pirates that are raping the life out from under them. Yankee go home.
i am American and i appreciate our relative democracy(which is under threat as our politicians devolve their authority to corporate layers representing transnational business(also fuck trump in this respect) what we do overseas is fucking awful, with our greasy trade relationships and bombing campaigns.

[Anonymous No.9933920]

>>9933907
>not understanding force projection

Yeah dude, the 7th fleet only protects Japan

[Anonymous No.9933927]

>>9932376
>You will not get an answer that is anywhere near unbiased...

...he posted immediately below such an answer almost ten hours earlier.

[Anonymous No.9933929]

>>9933901
Nice rebuttal, doesnt cover the fact you cant read and invented an argument for yourself against points I never made while simultaneously agreeing with the two I did.

[Anonymous No.9933946]

>>9932623
>at war 90% of its existence
>invades half of the world
>sole reason we have relative peace

[Anonymous No.9933952]

>>9931160
Some cool research is gonna come out of it.

[Anonymous No.9933953]

>>9933397
>There was a thread on /pol/ on this.

Where this one should also be. Mods?

>Can you guys justify their claims?
>They say that we can harvest minerals in space. Sounds pretty retarded and expensive.

At the moment it is not possible, we'd have to build the equipment to do it. That would not be a logical mission for a Space Force, though protecting those doing the harvesting might be such a mission. Sometime a decade or two from now.

>Some argue to protect our satelittes from other countries.

That is worth doing, but does not require a separate branch of the military. Existing branches already protect their own, at least. An expansion/consolidation of those efforts might be smart -- but that does not rise to anything approaching the need for a separate service branch.

>Some also argue so we can further advance our technology and space travel.

We could. Would creating a huge un-needed military structure be the most efficient way to do that, though? Particularly one with no real mission, and pretty much zero need to venture beyond LEO. (We already had a program with no real mission that did not go beyond LEO, it destroyed a couple of vehicles and crews and has been abandoned.)

You want to develop space hardware and tech, you need a real mission that pushes some boundaries, as NASA did back in the Golden Age of spaceflight. It doesn't need to be NASA, it does not need to be a political "race to the moon." But it needs to be a real mission you can sell the public (and congress) on.

[Anonymous No.9933960]

>>9931160
Nobody mentioned this book yet, written 9 years ago by the founder of Stratfor, who gets paid our tax money to tell our government what the future holds. He talks about the Space Force. Most of the book deals with geological influences on society, like how every time Germany and Russia wanted to invade each other they had mountains to the north and the Black Sea to the south, so they had to buttfuck Poland and Ukraine each time and that's why those places are shitholes now. Anyway, he says in the book that Japan gets all military again and we get to fight them in space, not sure of the truth of that, he might have been saying Japan but meaning someone else who he didn't want to tip off. He says we get manned geosync spy platforms, so that's on the plate.

The thing you need to realize, is the USA has a tiger by the tail. We don't dare let go. This monster was created to win WWII, this military industrial beast, and if we stop feeding it it will leave. They'll get their business from China, or Russia. Or India. Is that what you want?

Also we get to go to war with Mexico again :^)

[Anonymous No.9933964]

>>9933410
To be scrupulously fair, their scope has always been more than space. That first "A" in NASA is a clue to that.

[Anonymous No.9933967]

>>9933920
Your presupposition that people are happy there is US military presence in their countries by default is wrong, interesting you picked japan as the base and naval presence there is routinely protested. Just for clarity I am a leaf, I think the american military for better or worse is integral to modern geo politics and warfighting. I cant deny the benefits its existence has to me but neither can I deny its history and current activities, some of which are batshit crazy like gitmo and covert drone strikes in foreign territory with no permission and no declaration.

[Anonymous No.9933971]

>>9933967
I would say a lot of that has to do with corrupt officials and their business dealings, like John McCain and his investments into the blue team pipeline which is why Syria is happening. Or before him, Dick Cheney and Rumsfeld's involvement in oil drilling in the Golan Heights. At least in that case they had a proxy government (Israel) do the killing.

[Anonymous No.9933973]

>>9933960
>Japan gets all military again and we get to fight them in space

We need to work on our mecha, and space battleships!

[Anonymous No.9933978]

>>9933967
You seem to assume that some people protesting indicates something is unwelcomed by everybody. That may be in error.

In any case, this debate has nothing to do with science -- can you guys get back on topic?

[Anonymous No.9933988]

>>9933967
Another thing Friedman talks about in the book is how the USA controls the oceans and so we also control ocean-going trade. One of the things we do to keep it that way is try and keep other countries' military spending on land-based things so they don't have any money left over to increase the power of their navy.

[Anonymous No.9934049]

>>9933967
thats the bargain, friend. yeah, we spend an inordinate amount of money protecting our allies so they can have all the things a first world nation should have...but we get to pretty much fuck with whoever we want and the rest of you guys won't say shit.

when you finally say it out loud you realize how tribal this relationship is.

[Anonymous No.9934094]

>>9933262
Prevention is the best medicine. It is far superior to a have a society where a plague can’t start up, where hunger or thirst aren’t a problem, or where disasters aren’t assured death, than to focus on trying to fix those problems. Hence, “Tech is better than medicine.”

In the case of the Space Force, or hell, since everyone in this thread just wants to stick to politics and division, let’s just look at space travel in and of itself. Overcrowding is a problem. Global warming is messing up food supplies and eventually we may cap out at how much food is available for the people, and the increasing need for electricity is becoming a problem. Space travel may be able to revolutionise tech regarding these issues. We may be able to solve the energy crisis with fusion hosted in space using Helium-3 mined from the moon. We may be able to establish asteroid mining and construct O’Neill Cylinders to either house people in space and free up land for farming or house farming up in space eliminating the food issue. Investing in space exploration can and will bring the tech, and the forming of this Space Force is a major step towards that; the first majorly funded, publically recognised, nonpoliticised (except for by the opposition) space program we’ve seen since NASA first started. This is the path to the Tech. Forget the “Who” in who’s paving it, think about what can be achieved and focus yourself on furthering it so “what can” becomes “what will.” This is progress in its raw, true form. Forget the politics. This is progress.

[Anonymous No.9934186]

>>9932708
>take station
>spin it
>now have gravity

[Anonymous No.9934213]

>>9933381
Kek

[Anonymous No.9934216]

>>9933373
Godamn this
Any of you are welcome to step up to the plate at any time.

[Anonymous No.9934220]

>>9932708
Who says we're putting up that many people any time soon?

[Anonymous No.9934223]

>>9934094
Is it, though? A Apace Force inflated into something comparable to the other service branches would swallow $X. Some quantity of that would be spent on hardware, R&D, etc. that specifically targets blowing things up, in space. That might have spinoff benefits for space tech, but at last some of it will be totally superfluous in terms of space travel and exploration.

So, seems to me, unless there is an actual mission justifying something as large as a service branch, and I don;t think there is, then some amount of this money is wasted in absolute terms, and even more so in terms of promoting and expanding space exploration.

[Anonymous No.9934231]

The US is already doing going space stuff, 45's proposal is just an organizational change. Right now our space program is organized under the Air Force and T wants to move it to its own branch. This isn't a radical change and I frankly don't know enough about military structure to have a strong opinion about it. I do think it sounds cool as hell though.

>>9932798
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pax_Americana
read up kid

[Anonymous No.9934234]

>>9934220
This. Existing military branches have space capabilities to at least a limited extent (and possibly more than we know, some of that shit would be classified) yet none of them have personnel in orbit -- their people are all running things from desks, labs and launch sites. In the immediate future, at least, that's what a Space Force would be doing.

Which is another reason the argument that "Space Force will accelerate the exploration of space" do not seem very credible to me. Any mission they have, into the foreseeable future, would be in LEO, possibly out to GSO, and would involve little if any reason to orbit personnel.

[Anonymous No.9934237]

>>9934231
If it doesn't really change anything, why bother to do it?

A new service branch is a very big change, beefing up the capabilities run by existing branches and combining resources where possible would be a lesser change -- and would satisfy any mission need I've seen anybody put forward so far.

[Anonymous No.9934245]

>>9934223
possession is 9/10ths of the law. no one has claimed a lagrange point yet, or a moon base. its extending american force projection and imperialism to the heavens.

[Anonymous No.9934306]

>>9933200
False. Fuck Israel and Saudi A. Fuckin wannabe powers that have shit to offer us except a stable oil supply and some 3rd party country to spend black budget dollars blowing up.
I do however think the USA is the best of a bad situation. You can all claim you'd be righteous humanitarians if you had the power and budget, but no one gets this kind of power and budget being righteous humanitarians. Pax Americana is a thing, and fuck you for thinking you get any say so in what that means when you don't contribute a damn thing.

One of the founding ideals of America is 'no taxation without representation'. Well, were not taxing you.

[Anonymous No.9934323]

>>9933463
this
NASA needs to be slashed and given a solid and specific goal to pursue, the exploration and colonization of space
Give environment shit to the environment agencies

[Anonymous No.9934327]

>>9934306
>Pax Americana is a thing
it's not you stupid fucking nigger mutt
your wannabe rome bombed and overthrew governments in half of world's sovereign states and the only period when the Pax held to a non-laughable extent was when you had 30,000 nukes on hair trigger pointed at your stupid faggot fat asses

[Anonymous No.9934331]

>>9934327
kek I'm loving your chimpout
Pax Americana and capitalism in general has ushed in an era of peace and prosperity never before seen on this planet. Get a grip.

[Anonymous No.9934333]

>>9934327
If you want those big bad americans to stop acting in their own best interests, start voting for your country to get off its ass and start funding its military
then you can do the same and prosper too

[Anonymous No.9934341]

>>9933134

Oh no, it's illegal.

Call the world cops.

[Anonymous No.9934345]

>>9934327
SEETHING

[Anonymous No.9934347]

>>9934245
>Seizing lagrange point and building a moon base

I'd love a moon base, and there may well be good reasons to get into the L's -- but what possible military mission would be fulfilled? Remember, you are on /sci/, not /pol/, so you answer to that should make at least a lick of sense.

[Anonymous No.9934352]

>>9934347
Preventing anyone else from claiming territory unopposed
Claiming that territory yourself for economic, industrial, and colony development for further expansion and self sufficiency off earth

[Anonymous No.9934357]

Here is my take on it. I worked for the navy as a contractor helping design US Navy satellites. Basically, in my time working there, we worked closely with our counterparts in the Air Force Research Laboratory and some of the cyber-command guys too. It isn't (and shouldn't be) actual people in space. Instead, the idea is take all of us in the different branches and group us together under a single new branch. In some ways it is a good idea, as we already extensively collaborate together, but it would also be highly disruptive and cause new problems too. I honestly care little about it (among other things, I've gone back to school to pursue a higher degree), but most of my coworkers I've talked too are just hopeful it will mean that we get a budget increase.

[Anonymous No.9934360]

>>9934327
>bombed and overthrew governments in half of world's

now, now. thats hyperbole. putting down a few petty dictators and solidifying control over unstable areas is completely within the purview of a Global Defense Provider™. if you don't like your current level of service, may we suggest upgrading to our Platinum package which includes a brand new squadron of F-35's fighter planes!

[Anonymous No.9934367]

>>9931160
It'll be the space coast guard, America's arm reaching out into space, and making sure our CEO overlords pay their taxes while us mere mortals scrape out a shitty existence here on Earth.

[Anonymous No.9934368]

>>9934352
That is not a needed mission since nobody else is anywhere near being able to do that.

[Anonymous No.9934370]

>>9932993
>Space exploration

It should be named the "China missile interception force"

[Anonymous No.9934372]

>>9933283
>this worm goes right at the top. Space Force!

You sound like an indoctrinated cult follower.

[Anonymous No.9934374]

>>9934368
>BFR
we're very near to that one, and BFR launches can and will be sold to damn near anyone, as is the majesty of capitalism

[Anonymous No.9934376]

>>9934357
Since you seem to actually be in a position to have an informed opinion -- do you really think a new service branch is the way to do that? It would seem to me that this is just creating another huge chunk of bureaucracy and redundant command infrastructure beyond what the mission would actually require. If, as you say, there is already cooperation to some extent between different services in handling their space-related assets, would not an expansion of that, and a reduction in duplicated efforts, be better?

[Anonymous No.9934377]

>>9934347
same reason why the US Navy patrols the sea. control of commerce. SpaceX has been the proof in the pudding that space is business and its only going to get bigger. in order to be firmly in control when the space boom really gets going you need to be the first ones there with infrastructure and "protection".

[Anonymous No.9934385]

>>9934360
>putting down a few petty dictators
US literally propped up 10 times more dictatorships than it ended
>and solidifying control over unstable areas
you have no control over shit you've been physically occupying for two decades
you've been in Afghanistan for 17 years and you still control same 3 cities and roads between them you pathetic faggot

[Anonymous No.9934386]

>>9934360
KEK

[Anonymous No.9934426]

>>9934376
I'll be honest with you. I studied AI programming and aerospace engineering in college. I know a lot about those topics, but little about public policy or management. I don't have any insider information, and the white house hasn't released many specifics. Personally, I suspect that it is just a marketing stunt. Depending on what actually happens, it could be wonderful or a massive pain in the ass. What we currently have is working pretty well, but with a few glaring mistakes (in my personal opinion as a young engineer relatively fresh out of college). However, these problems are hardly going to be fixed by reorganization. Instead, they need to get some young blood in advisory roles to top-level decision makers and work on cutting down on some of the private-contractors bullshit. I know a lot of the Boeing (and Lockheed martin, etc.) guys, and they do great work, but the companies have room to improve and need to work on cutting down on cost overruns, delays, and become more innovative without NASA or people like my coworkers and I pushing them into using new technology. That's just my two cents.

[Anonymous No.9934427]

>>9934385
>>9934360
>>9934341
>>9934333
>>9934331
>>9934327
>>9934306

There is a board for your political posts. This is not it.

[Anonymous No.9934433]

>>9934427
ITT: /pol/ thread cleverly disguised as /sci/ thread

There's currently little to NO details about space force. Everyone ITT is just guessing or imagining what it'll be like. (Trump admin does this with every big ticket item they wanna push through) So with no details to discuss this thread devolved into "do you trust the presidents vision of space force, what ever that vision might be" which makes this whole thread a political debate, not scientific.

[Anonymous No.9934438]

>>9934433
i'm just here to collect (You)'s

[Anonymous No.9934440]

>>9931160
I think it’ll be a good reason to look further into space travel.

[Anonymous No.9934473]

>>9934368
Well why wait for them to be capable? What's the point of developing all these techs if we're not gonna use them until others are finished taking their sweet time developing them too?
We all know the value of a head start. Convince us it's not in our interest to use the opportunity.

[Anonymous No.9934476]

>>9934427
There are websites that account uncomfortable truths. This is not it.

[Anonymous No.9934494]

>>9934427
There are websites that avoid uncomfortable topics. This is not it.

What, you think everytime something sciencey is mentioned on /b/ they say 'start your own thread on /sci/'?

[Anonymous No.9934534]

>>9932798

[Anonymous No.9934774]

>>9933373

As clueless as ever, no wonder your country ravages everything it touches.

[Anonymous No.9934775]

>>9934377
Not a bad idea. China made a big mess of that satellite, very publicly, 8 years ago or whatever. I'd want to know aggressors would be punished before I invested huge amounts into production infrastructure.

>>9934433
Business and politics are inseparable. It's a mistake to call it Trump's space force though. The plans have been in the works for over a decade, parts of it probably from Kennedy's time. There's no way to separate cutting edge research from huge wasteful amounts of money, and no way to separate huge wasteful amounts of money from what they do with our taxes, and no way to separate our taxes from the war machine. Hence, the war machine becomes the driver for cutting edge scientific research. Just how it goes.

[Anonymous No.9934994]

>>9932798
God you are dumb as fuck if you for a second believe that China or Russia would allow for equal or more international freedom.

[Anonymous No.9934999]

You lads might be math wizards, but that does not seem to translate to politics.

>>9934216
>>9933373
EU was offered chance to do exactly this by Trump admin when they got told to raise NATO expenditure to the actual 2% (and eventually 4%) but EU cucked once again and decided they'll try to reach 2% sometime 2020-2024.

[Anonymous No.9935000]

>>9934385
> He doesn't realize Afghanistan is frozen conflict used to train U.S. military.
top lol.

U.S. could topple it if they wanted to, they just don't want.

[Anonymous No.9935029]

So, what sort of peaceful devices are we going to get for our money? There's a big push for laser weaponry right now, to burn holes in drones and missiles, so they'll make faster missiles, which needs better tracking & aiming systems. Boom, now we can push lightsails better. Better control over microwave power beaming stations. Those stations would be hugely useful to a fighting team in enemy territory. How else are you going to charge your soldiers' exoskeletons? We're talking backpacks that unfold here, targeted by a constellation of satellites.

What else?

[Anonymous No.9935031]

>>9935029
>So, what sort of peaceful devices are we going to get for our money?
Nuclear weapons delivery and counter systems.

[Anonymous No.9935045]

>>9933104
Implying a new space race would be bad

[Anonymous No.9935047]

>>9935031
Do we have any discreet orbital launch capabilities? How sneakily could we get something into orbit? Obviously depends on size, but I don't think we have anything that doesn't have a big thermal signature that a spy sat could easily see. We do have the research into hiding fighter planes' exhausts from heat seeking missiles to apply there.

[Anonymous No.9935116]

>>9934994

All of those countries need to be on a tight leash.