/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.9922048]

Science doesn't know shit about reality, otherwise it would be able to solve the problem of human suffering.

Science: 0
Buddha: 1

[Anonymous No.9922052]

Morphine solves suffering.

[Anonymous No.9922055]

>>9922052
No it doesn't, that's a juvenile statement. That's like saying Yo-Yos solve gravity.

[Anonymous No.9922081]

>>9922055

It solves it in a scientific way. You can be obnoxious all you want with spirituality, science has nothing to with it. Bye.

[Anonymous No.9922133]

>>9922081
So your solution to end human suffering is to keep dosing morphine?

That's some solution you got there. Real brilliant.

[Anonymous No.9922145]

>>9922052
>>9922081
Furthermore, opium was known far earlier than the scientific principles that make it work. Claiming science is somehow responsible for the mechanism of action it produces is downright silly.

[Anonymous No.9922160]

>>9922133

It's my solution, it's a scientific solution.

>>9922145

Opium is not the same as scientifically synthesized morphine.

[Anonymous No.9922162]

>>9922048
Suffering is not a problem. Suffering is a fact.

[Anonymous No.9922165]

>>9922160
>It's my solution, it's a scientific solution.
Great, you just swapped one type of suffering for another.

Your scientific mindset is preventing you from even having common sense it would seem.

[Anonymous No.9922171]

>>9922162
>Suffering is not a problem
Brave words

[Anonymous No.9922173]

>>9922048 >>9922052
Pain killers and Anti depressants drugs solves suffering ... as long you keep taking it.

[Anonymous No.9922175]

>>9922165

Had a typo, meant to write

>it's not my solution, it's a scientific solution.

Being on morphine is not medically considered as suffering. I don't care if you're not satisfied with it, you already obnoxiously claimed your solution in the beginning. I don't even understand why you even made this thread aside from feeding your ego.

[Anonymous No.9922178]

>>9922175
>X is a problem
>Y solves X temporarily but increases the problematic aspects of X over time
>HUUUURRR DURRR I SOLVED IT SCIENCE I"M SO SMART AHAHAHAHA

[Anonymous No.9922179]

>>9922171
It's not though. It might be a problem in the scope of human perception but it isn't objectively. If you want to think of it in terms of spirituality, Buddhism itself teaches balance. It focuses on the moderation of all things, and not being swayed one way or another. Just being perfectly in check.
Druidry also believes in balance, however not being exactly centered. The theory goes, the universe must be balanced mathematically to exist persistently, and "positive" and "negative" energy as we perceive it or sense it or see it or whatever is an aspect of that, so they see it as you need positivity AND negativity in your life, as the world needs positivity and negativity, and different scopes of the universal system influence others, etc.
It literally is not a problem unless you put the terribly subjective, human label of "problem" on it. And I'm sure there's plenty of pseudoscientific psych studies directly addressing these philosophies. Quit being such a bitch about your pretentious-ass spirituality.

[Anonymous No.9922182]

>>9922179
This post cured my ADHD

[Anonymous No.9922183]

>>9922182
Congration.

[Anonymous No.9922209]

Buddha doesn't know shit about reality, otherwise he would be able to predict the movements of distant galaxies, understand the movement of subatomic particles and free billions from preventable illnesses.

Science: Countless brilliant leaps forward
Buddha: Some meme philosophy

[Anonymous No.9922219]

>>9922179
only retards care about believes and base their actions on them, just like they base their actions on emotions or pleasures

[Anonymous No.9922222]

>>9922209
>free billions from preventable illnesses
What are you going to do when you cure all illnesses and prevent aging? Suffer forever?

[Anonymous No.9922236]

>>9922175
Lol wtf

[Anonymous No.9922240]

>>9922178

I didn't claim to solve it, I didn't invent pain medications.

[Anonymous No.9922241]

>>9922222

Suffer from what?

[Anonymous No.9922246]

>>9922241
Being an unenlightened being with petty problems

[Anonymous No.9922254]

>>9922222
>Those numbers
Truth have been said, buddhism all the way

[Anonymous No.9922273]

>>9922246

Wow such suffering. Buddhism truly is the right religion for useless hipster westerners.

[Anonymous No.9922286]

>>9922222

Quints aside, an understanding of how the brain works will let us rewire ourselves to prevent suffering. Maybe we can become fulfilled by 9-5 jobs, if we only change the way our brain works.

Suffering, like everything in the universe, can be identified physically and verifiably. With the right technology, it can be removed entirely, as opposed to being wished away (in a temporary and less effectove manner).

[Anonymous No.9922293]

>>9922048
Modern medicine solves suffering. The body sometimes does truly have something wrong that needs extracting so the other cells can operate efficiently. AKA tumors. Also, biological engineering centers may soon be able to give more life unto people with missong limbs by creating new ones, or return quality of life to liver damaged patients. All in exchange for energy and precision biological manipulation machines.

[Anonymous No.9922308]

>>9922048
> human suffering
> problem

[Anonymous No.9922324]

>>9922293
>Modern medicine solves suffering
Not always, and only suffering pertaining to the body. While no one on this planet can cure depression.

[Anonymous No.9922340]

>>9922293
You've never been in a hospital, have you?

[Anonymous No.9922358]

>>9922048

>The sum total of humanities knowledge and observations about the physical world doesn't know shit about the physical world at all.
>I say this because humans are sad sometimes.

[Anonymous No.9922367]

>>9922340
Not the one you have been attending obviously.

[Anonymous No.9922370]

>>9922308
This.
What do you wanna do, be a fuckin barnacle?
>Buddhism
Oh, you do.

[Anonymous No.9922392]

OP, you pretend suffering can only be solved one way but it isnt so objective. in fact suffering very much isnt grounded in reality which is why you resort to irrational solutions like religion to fill the void.

[Anonymous No.9922416]

>>9922048
>the problem of human suffering

There is no problem. It is what it is.

Oranges are orange, water is wet, and life has pain and suffering.

Are you now going to cry because all things die?

This is life, accept what is.

It is good and proper to rage against death, to struggle to survive, to seek a life of less pain and suffering.

You were born screaming for a breath of air and in the end you will gasp for that last breath.

[Anonymous No.9922452]

>>9922052
>Morphine solves suffering.
lol, no it fucking doesn't.
Opioids don't give you the same effects indefinitely.
You build up a tolerance very quickly and then end up worse off than you were before because now you need the opioid just to avoid all the withdrawal problems.
Just look at almost every grunge musician during the 90s. You waste away from lack of appetite, randomly crap your pants with diarrhea (since opioids work on the GI tract too, that's how over the counter imodium is able to treat diarrhea), shake uncontrollably and feel like you're cold regardless of the actual temperature around you, can't remember anything or maintain even a simple train of thought, can't even sit still without feeling restlessness and discomfort.

[Anonymous No.9922459]

>>9922416
>There is no problem. It is what it is.
That's retarded. According to you Norman Borlaug shouldn't have saved the more than one billion lives he did save through his agricultural research and production boosting initiatives.
>Are you now going to cry because all things die?
^Also you're conflating problem solving with problem lamenting.
There's a difference between solving 1+1=x vs. crying that 1+1=x exists.

[Anonymous No.9922471]

>>9922459
What does saving lives have to do with ameliorating suffering? Dead men don't suffer.

[Anonymous No.9922473]

>>9922459
no.

You ask why is their human suffering and I told you why.

See this image... a typical upper income American neighborhood. By a poor African's standard these people have EVERYTHING a person could ever want. Talk to the people in this neighborhood and you will hear stories of Drug addictions, divorces, molestation, failed businesses, etc,.. to them life is hard and they have to struggle and suffer every day.

Human suffering IS, because that is what it is to be human.

[Anonymous No.9922474]

>>9922473

Wrong picture :-<

[Anonymous No.9922485]

>>9922240

You didn't give him an effective rebuttal either - opiate addiction is a huge cause of net suffering.

>>9922048

Give it a few millennia

[Anonymous No.9922486]

>>9922473
>You ask why is their human suffering and I told you why.
I didn't ask you or anyone else in this thread anything. Are you talking about OP? I don't think even he asked "why is there human suffering." What he brought up was the problem of human suffering not being solved.
Also if suffering between sub-saharan africans vs. suburban middle class americans remained constant then there wouldn't be a reason to advance technology and living conditions, which isn't a very reasonable position.
I think it's more like there's a lot of suffering in the former population, and a lot less (but still nonzero amount of) suffering in the latter population.
Which is a very different take on that topic since it means everything isn't interchangeable and you have the ability to reduce suffering through works and innovation.

[Anonymous No.9922490]

>>9922473

Correction. They "think" they have everything they could ever want. The problem is these people settle for less than emperor of the known universe.

They are happy to see their families grow strong yet do not inspire them to conquer the planets and stars to become strongest. They just continue to "be" in their standard pool of what they assume to be "upper class", they have no idea what can be achieved by the unification of math and practical application, they stagnate.

Then every so often, one of them is born with that drive. The drive to explore space. To extract the deepest secrets the universe has to offer. He realizes how little these people actually have. How small they actually have been.

He/she then gets enraged. Wants more. Finds more. Then promptly, eats it to absorb its power.

The Ancient American Story of How The First Rat came to be.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Mice one rainy season, fell into a hole. This hole was filled with rodents by the end of the day who had been washed out of their burrows. Days went by, the mice were driven mad by hunger. One day, after a month had gone past, not a single mouse was left. Then out came The First Rat."

BWAAHAHAAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA.

[Anonymous No.9922502]

>>9922486
>you have the ability to reduce suffering through works and innovation

So why are MORE people committing suicide as a percentage of all deaths now. Why is Japanese suicide rates so high, why are so many Japaneses not marrying and having families? Why are ALL industrialized nations having NEGATIVE population growth? why are there so many lonely people in major cities?

Yes.. PHYSICAL suffering has gone down, but psychological suffering has gone up... innovations and technology does NOT eliminate or even decrease human suffering.

The Amish, orthodox Jews, etc, willingly reduce technology and innovation and as a group experience less human suffering.

[Anonymous No.9922517]

>>9922502
There's a difference between healthy levels of technological growth and innovation, the levels we're currently at, and denying it altogether, retard

[Anonymous No.9922519]

>>9922502
>So why are MORE people committing suicide as a percentage of all deaths now.
Because percentages aren't raw volumes, and when you reduce all the instances of death related to disease or poor living conditions then of course death of the self-inflicted sort will constitute a larger percentage of deaths in general.
>NEGATIVE population growth
That's a sign things are going well you retard.
Population growth is high in the worst conditions because there's no birth control, no education, and an actual need for child labor.
When conditions are better people settle down and stop panic-breeding.

[Anonymous No.9922525]

>>9922048
irelevent, humans need to suffer i think

[Anonymous No.9922531]

>>9922525
Why do you think suffering is an on/off switch and not something with different degrees to it?
I mean, are you saying "need to suffer" as in need to feel bad about having to get up early one morning to catch a plane flight, or "need to suffer" as in need to feel bad about uncontrollably vomiting and writhing in pain while wasting away in a hospital from cancer?
I wouldn't consider these the same, and that being the case, I wouldn't conclude there's nothing anyone should do about suffering since you can do a lot to reduce it without necessarily achieving perfect 100% elimination.

[Anonymous No.9922542]

>>9922531
you can do a lot to reduce it without necessarily achieving perfect 100% elimination.
im saying this one

[Anonymous No.9922549]

>>9922286

>The industrial revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

[Anonymous No.9922557]

>>9922179
>It focuses on the moderation of all things, and not being swayed one way or another. Just being perfectly in check.
That's not really what Buddhism is about. That sounds more like a modern Western bastardization of Buddhism for self-help literature.
The middle way isn't about doing a moderate amount of all things, it's about Gautama Buddha's realization that neither indulgence nor mortification of the body bring you closer to liberation from the cycle of birth, death, and rebirth.
I mean, you're not supposed to take a moderate position between being highly materialistic and wealthy vs. giving up your possessions and home and becoming a monk. It's simply preferable for your chances at liberation from the cycle of birth, death, and rebirth to give up your possessions and home and become a monk.
Also it's not about "being perfectly in check" either. It's about being able to see through the illusion that's keeping you stuck in cyclic worldly existence.

[Anonymous No.9922565]

>>9922048
Listen here you fucking hippie.
You walked into the wrong fucking place to spread your lies. YOU can be happy that you are "at peace" or whatever the fuck that means. We here deal in the sharpness of our numbers and facts. Sure, perhaps you can claim the soft side of chaos and the creation of a space where things are not so brutal, but we deal ONLY in brutalities. The dying of each cell is not cause for peace to us, it is the keeping steady beat of the drum of our war against death and the universe. We will have victory and we will find the truth. Then and only then will we be at peace. Eternal life belongs to the wizards. Now FUCK OFF. We can HEAR you wasting calories as we speak.

[Anonymous No.9922658]

>>9922565
Hoorah

[Anonymous No.9922664]

>>9922565
What drugs are you currently on?

[Anonymous No.9922684]

>>9922664
Calm down there, wizlet.

[Anonymous No.9922690]

>>9922664
ALL OF THEM.

[Anonymous No.9922729]

>>9922690
Wh-What do you mean? Are you okay anon?

[Anonymous No.9922753]

so this is the state of /sci/ right now, absolute brainlets. have any of you heard of psychosurgery?

[Anonymous No.9922758]

>>9922753
>suffering is a mental disorder
>psychology is legit science
>buddhism is not scientific
Found the ignoramus

[Anonymous No.9922762]

>>9922758
>Buddhism
>scientific
Please elaborate.

[Anonymous No.9922764]

>>9922758
>implying suffering is not mental disorder

[Anonymous No.9922766]

>>9922286
>rewire ourselves to prevent suffering
the absolute state of materialists

[Anonymous No.9922768]

>>9922762
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_science
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_science#Buddhism_as_science

[Anonymous No.9922769]

>>9922766
>he does not know what true freedom is

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/jordy-cernik-man-unable-fear-2208002

[Anonymous No.9922770]

>>9922764
The fuck. If I hit you with a stick and you start suffering due to pain, is that mental disorder on your part?

[Anonymous No.9922776]

Eugenics

[Anonymous No.9922777]

>>9922517
>it's because we're not innovating at a HEALTHY rate
do you literally believe this? should we slow down innovation so people can be happier?

>>9922519
>people are killing themselves because less people are dying
sounds like a logical leap but ok

this whole conversation is human computers dancing around the fact that material wealth doesn't make you happy

[Anonymous No.9922778]

>>9922770
>muh suffering is me hitting you with a stick
and to answer your question yes it is mental illness, if you can't control your brain responses 100% you have mental illness.

[Anonymous No.9922785]

>>9922565
anon calm down, we're all here for you, we won't let anyone hurt you

[Anonymous No.9922790]

>>9922769
idk about you but I'd rather suffer than kill parts of my brain and become an empty husk

>>9922778
so everyone other than a few psychopaths is mentally ill?

[Anonymous No.9922794]

>>9922790
sorry anon i can't handle all your assumptions i hope you will find your own peace.

[Anonymous No.9922821]

>>9922778
Oh, ok. Plz control your brain responses

[Anonymous No.9922837]

>>9922821
needs braces

[Anonymous No.9922935]

>>9922766
That's like saying don't have a healthy diet because it changes you (from a unhealthy diet). Implicit notions present in all human cultural products can be rendered invalid (by context) if you change your very nature. That's what is meant by 'rewire'. Rewire does not mean regression or removal, in this case, it could easily mean enrichment.

[Anonymous No.9922962]

>>9922935
an unhealthy diet is a bad comparison because it isn't natural. our natural ideal is to eat reasonably healthy food. most of the reason our modern food is so unhealthy is because we've altered it significantly from what occurs naturally
I'm not sure what you're implying with "implicit notions of culture" related to suffering, but in my mind pain is just a part of life. what you call enrichment I call tampering, and I project that every physical enhancement we attempt to giver ourselves in the future will have unforeseen side effects
watch time prove me right

[Anonymous No.9923013]

>>9922777
I don't think you understand how percentages work.
Let me try to help you with an example:
If you have 10 shirts, where 2 shirts are green, 4 shirts are blue, 3 shirts are white, and 1 shirt is grey, then the portion of green shirts is 20% (2/10).
If you lose all 4 of your blue shirts along with the 1 grey shirt but all else is kept the same, what's your portion of green shirts now?
The answer is 40% (2/5).
Percentages for one given category can increase if you reduce or eliminate other previously high volume categories.
Your mistake was writing this:
>>9922502
>So why are MORE people committing suicide as a percentage of all deaths now.
And thinking suicide being higher 'as a percentage of all deaths' means people must be getting driven to suicide more as a function of greater suffering, when that ignores the fact we've greatly reduced many other forms of death which will cause suicide to comprise a greater portion of the remaining causes of death, just like with the shirts.

[Anonymous No.9923086]

>>9923013
oh sorry I get what you meant now, that was someone else who wrote that and I only skimmed it
that is misleading how he said it

[Anonymous No.9923105]

>>9922048
What science? Hurr durrr my spirituality n shyt! Lay off the drugs muh man.

[Anonymous No.9923162]

>>9922962

Sure, mental enhancement isn't easy but it's possible. We are not living a natural lifestyle. We did not evolve to live like we do now, consuming loads of sugar, barely exercising, working in skyscrapers.

We either need to change ourselves, or our environment.

[Anonymous No.9923166]

Buddha didn't solve it either fag

[Anonymous No.9923173]

>>9922048

Or suffering is an inherent property of exisistence and theres nothing to really solve, unless you consider killing yourself a solution.

[Anonymous No.9923518]

>>9922048
Science is not about "solving suffering," it is about understanding what the fuck is actually going on. It is, of course, likely that properly understanding what the fuck is actually going on might be useful for your efforts to deal with suffering.

[Anonymous No.9923522]

>>9922055
Wait until you are suffering from intense physical pain, then tell your doctor you do not want any morphine, you'll just use a little Buddhism and clear that right up.

If you think of it, take some pictures of your doc's face when you say this, and share them with us. For the lulz.

[Anonymous No.9923529]

>>9922175
>I don't even understand why you even made this thread

Welcome to 4chan!

FYI, we have these things here called Really Fucking Obvious Trolls. OP is one of them. You will spot others in other threads here and there.

[Anonymous No.9923538]

>>9922392
>OP, you pretend suffering can only be solved one way

I think it is more correct to say that he implies there is only one sort of suffering -- the sort that he feels can be addressed by Buddhism.

But if he fucks up his back and is in pain for the rest of his life, I am willing to bet he'll supplement his "Ommmmm"s with some pain meds.

[Anonymous No.9923541]

>>9922473
Wait, is there REALLY really no candy? Shit, I always liked candy, back when I thought there was some.