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2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/sci/ - Science & Math

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9897338 No.9897338 [Reply] [Original]

Are electric cars marketing memes? Yeah they have no carbon emissions, but you can't deny that mining lithium, using diminishing rare earth metals for batteries that will be useless in a couple of decades is good for the environment. On top of that, a car charging infrastructure has to be built and old fuel cars would have to be scrapped when they would otherwise be resold on a used market.

>> No.9897353

>>9897338
>old fuel cars will have to be scrapped
no, when they wear out, people will decide to either purchase ev or a cobustion based vehicle depending on their needs and prices etc

batteries are also extremely recyclable.

lithium is rare though.

>> No.9897358

>>9897338
also
>cars will never become a common commodity because that would mean we would need fueling stations and additional infrastructure everywhere! - horse breeders in 1915

>> No.9897367

there is plenty of lithium. Replacing our infrastructure sooner rather than later is better for the environment long-term.

BNEF says that 50% of new car sales will be full-electric by 2035. I think that's on the lower end of what will happen.
My next car will be electric, definitely.

>> No.9897481

electric cars have the potential to be much easier to scale in production, they make sense once you factor in all the electric features any modern car must have, and with the added ability to fine-tune what you want the drive-train to be able to do, appealing to safety people as well as people who want performance. It also appeals to manufacturers who will then be able to put HP limiters on their vehicles, and make further profit by offering the full power of the electric motors to those who pay more, and waive certain liabilities.
the electric car also waives all environmental responsibility and puts it on whatever is powering the grid.
Hopefully Mazda and Porsche continue to make combustion engines until the sun burns out, but most manufacturers are heavily leaning into the industry.

Over the next 30 years, however, Hybrid power makes the most sense, and Hybrids are what will dominate the market while infrastructure is put into place

>> No.9897496

>>9897481
hybrid a shit, it made sense in this transitional period. But wh/mi, $/kwh, and kwh/kg are all improving at steady rates. There will be zero reason to stick an ICE engine in a car, electric or otherwise, in ten years.

>> No.9897526

>>9897338
Not a meme. We have plenty of lithium op, if fusion takes off we can get megatons of it from the ocean too. Dont fall for short seller propaganda, electric cars are waaaaay better than 10 years ago.

>> No.9897538

>>9897338
Electric vehicles are far more environmentally friendly, even when you account for rare earth mining. No emissions, more energy efficient in every way, and they're quieter too -- not that cars are that loud these days.

>> No.9897547

Even with coal "electricity", they're still cleaner. Consider the options - a hundred thousand ICE engines, or one big, comparatively efficient coal plant? (plus some transmission line losses of course). MIT did the number crunching I believe.

In the end it won't matter, because renewables are taking over.

>> No.9897551

lithium based batteries are a stop-gap technology. we already have superior battery prototypes that don't need rare earth elements. the challenge is getting them ready for mass production, which should be within our lifetimes

>a car charging infrastructure has to be built
it mostly already exists. the power grid and network of gas stations are all already there. hell, super cold-weather places like canada already have electric hookups in all their parking decks so you can plug in engine block heaters.

>old fuel cars would have to be scrapped when they would otherwise be resold on a used market
that's why electric rollout has been so slow. old useless fuel cars are scrapped every day. it's a sea change, not a sudden shift

>> No.9897567

>>9897551
it won't be batteries that "don't need rare earth elements", just batteries that need less of certain elements. Right now you have NMC/NCA/etc chemistries, but next gen cells are moving away from specific stuff; for instance, the future Tesla cells will have no cobalt in them at all. I think we're going to be using lithium-based chemistry for forever though. Most of the solid-state magic stuff is just a meme

>> No.9897791

>>9897338
It's a secret cabal of ICE auto mechanics setting those Teslas on fire. They'll all be out of a job when everyone's car Just Works for tens of thousands of miles without any service. I guess we'll keep them around for when the window switches break or whatever.

>> No.9897936
File: 528 KB, 1296x828, Screen Shot 2018-07-27 at 6.07.33 PM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9897936

>>9897791
nah, batteries do catch on fire sometimes. But if you do the numbers, they do so at a lower rate than the average ICE. There is some sabotage going on, but it doesn't have to do with individual cars

>> No.9897952

>>9897936
what the fuck is that trend projection

>> No.9897972

>>9897952
you'll have to pay for the full BNEF report to see their methodology. https://about.bnef.com/electric-vehicle-outlook/

>> No.9897996

>>9897338
>t. Tesla short seller

>> No.9898031

>>9897996
august 1st is gonna be gr8

>> No.9898228

the biggest problem for electric vehicles is the short lifespan of the batteries. a well cared for ICE will last decades. a battery pack will lose its charge and need replacing in five years and will end up being thousands of dollars. i know a lot of people who have sworn off electrics and hybrids after getting hit with huge replacement charges for their battery packs

>> No.9898245

>>9898228
that's completely wrong. You cannot equate changing out a 2007 Prius battery with modern EVs.

Modern EVs, with active battery cooling (looking at you, Leaf) have small, decreasing degradation curves. It's a literal non-issue.

>> No.9898250

>>9898245
well i might be wrong about modern batteries but i'm not wrong that there's a lot of people out there with that impression of electrics

>> No.9898260

>>9898250
therein lies the issue. The amount of FUD, lies, myths, and false impressions about EVs is saddening. Heck, there was a UK study where a large chunk didn't even know you could drive them in the rain.

Well, if you have any EV questions I would be happy to answer them hah. Most of /o/ is a lost cause... it's impossible to try and fix misconceptions when everything you say is interpreted as a shill post over there.

>> No.9898267

>>9897338
What rare earths are we using up? Many of them are not very rare at all, despite the name.

>> No.9898271

>>9898267
None really. Cobalt is a target but only because it's mined by slave boys in the congo or some shit, and is already being reduced.

>> No.9898272

>>9898267
a big meme one is cobalt, but most companies are moving away from cobalt-dependent chemistry. The USGS places world reserves at about 7 million metric tons anyways; although over half of current production comes from the Kinshasa region of the Congo, so it's easy for the supply chain to get disrupted.

NMC batteries typically have, per kilowatt-hour of battery, 0.29 kilograms of cobalt for reference.

>> No.9898581

>>9897567
> lithium-based chemistry for forever though. Most of the solid-state magic stuff is just a meme
Tbh as sad as it is this. There would need to be some paradigm shifting breakthrough(s) to get away from lithium.

>> No.9898590

What's better, in the long run: electric cars, or cars that run on artificially generated liquid fuels?

I'm a huge autist about batteries. I'm convinced they're never going to work in the long run, either in cars or for grid-level energy storage. It seems to me that it's better to use renewable energy to make hydrogen or ethanol or ammonia, since liquid fuel is a much better energy storage medium than batteries.

Am I wrong?

>> No.9898595

>>9897338
>On top of that, a car charging infrastructure has to be built

No.

>> No.9898606

>>9898590

sadly hydrogen is not viable as a storage option, especially not on cars. It needs large and heavy tanks because it diffuses even through steel which severely limits long term storage as well. Other options for fuel cells have provblems like toxic products or rapidly damaging the cell itself.

>> No.9898628

>>9898590
liquids have a host of problems. Batteries are the future... we're already using them on the grid.

>>9898606
plus, it's pretty inefficient, and leads to major safety concerns. Really only Toyota is pushing it, because they're too stubborn to shitcan the R&D department built around the mirai

>> No.9898642

>>9897338
Should just do away with personal vehicles. All major roads should just be changed into rails and then have automated uber pods take care of anyone's travel needs. Then you can rent some sort of vehicles to go out into the country.

>> No.9898644

>>9898642
Leave the roads, just build a rail/hyper loop whatever in the median

But yeah, we’re going to see a huge shift to TaaS in the near future

>> No.9898656

>>9897338
The reason why governments are pushing for non oil&gas sources of energy is not due to environmental concerns, but because this shit will run out at some point and most of it is in geopolitically sensitive regions (Middle East, Russia).

>> No.9898668

>>9898656
Either reason is a good reason to switch

>> No.9898679 [DELETED] 

>>9898656
Another issue is that even if they do manage to completely replace ffuels, everything else they might manage to use instead depends on non-renewable as well, so it essentially just buys time by switching one problem for another. The fundamental problem is economic growth itself. That's the disease that will kill us, and pretending you've cured it by essentially taking some morphine is what someone with serious delusions would do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Georgescu-Roegen

its kinda messed up that guys like this and many other have essentially been ignored for so long.

>> No.9898680

>>9898606
Theres a lot of active research in solid state fuel cells going on right now, a guy I know is using titanium as a fuel cell by introducing multiple grain boundaries into the crystal lattice to increase the diffusion of hydrogen in it. Im pretty positive these will get viable very soon.

>> No.9898686

>>9898680

thing with those is getting them somehow economically viable. If i have an energy loss that's 50 times higher than when loading a battery there is no reason to use them since they are still heavier than just carrying a battery. i think this is an enormously cool field of research and i really like fuel cells, but i do not understand why they should be a viable thing for transportation where energy conversion efficiency and weight matter the most.

>> No.9898708

>>9897338
Lrn2meme fgt pls

>> No.9898710

>>9897338
>Gas cars smell bad
>Gas cars are loud
>Gas cars make smog
>Gas cars force you to interact with the gas pump worker
>Gas cars break down all the fucking time
>Gas cars require you to do frequent maintenance
>12V lead batteries always die

Fuck off /o/, electric cars are the future.

>> No.9900260

>>9898710
I drove a Model 3 the other day, was unironically a fantastic car except for the stupid iPad on the dash, the electric motors are sooooo nice, no noise, all dat power. Really they just need to sort the battery problem and most of the planet will give a big middle finger to the gasoline car.

>> No.9900262

>>9900260
what battery problem?

>> No.9900265

>>9898710
funnily enough, EVs (even Teslas) still have a big lead acid 12v, to power accessories etc. Although they're looking to phase it out pretty soon.

>> No.9900269

>>9900262
Longevity and high load discharges mostly. Kind of gay having a cool fast af electric car and not being able to drive it for more than a few minutes around a track.

>> No.9900287

>>9900269
longevity is a non-issue; you're going to be seeing a steady decrease in range for the first 100k (1% per 20k), but it takes about 500k to get to 75% left. (and that wasn't even with the new 21700s). New chemistry, like in 3s, should be 80+% @ 500k.

As for the tracking of model 3's, they've seriously stepped up the efficient and cooling game. Model 3s have an entirely new glycol system. From the track videos I've seen, they are basically impossible to get into limp mode

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgfXyLLaO7I

>> No.9900289
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9900289

>>9897338
>Yeah they have no carbon emissions
this
thank dog the electircity that powers them comes from fucking unicorn farts, and not ugly shit like coal/gas powerplants that provide power to three quarters of the fucking planet!

>> No.9900293

>>9900289
still much better for the environment https://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publications/TE%20-%20draft%20report%20v04.pdf

>> No.9900301

>>9900293
>inferior range and mileage for more money and total carbon emissions that come from countires going fullretard and shutting down nuclear plants in favor short term coal and gas while dreaming about long term renewables, like Germany did
>better for environemnt
go fuck yourself with a lamp post

>> No.9900303

>>9900287
Yeah Model 3 looks like a nice piece of engineering now that they have sorted the panel gaps. Shame about them being cunts about maintenance though.

>> No.9900307

>>9900301
they're still better for the environment. Multiple studies have shown this
>would you like to know more?

>>9900303
yeah, good luck if you break anything. Some of the wait times for replacement parts at service centers are horrid

>> No.9900333

>>9898260
>Most of /o/ is a lost cause... it's impossible to try and fix misconceptions
Well yes but you have to understand what /o/ universally hates is modern cars and how they are big, heavy, have too much technology needlessly packed into them, and feel far too numb when driving. EVs are all of those things even more so than modern ICE cars. This is because EVs are designed and marketed towards people who could be described as the exact opposite of car enthusiasts, You might see enthusiasts changing their tune when there's an EV that is small, light, and simple but even then I'm sure many will feel that ICEs are just cooler.

>> No.9901868

>>9897526
>if fusion takes off
Fusion isn't limitless free energy. The plants have to get built and maintained which will probably cost a sizable amount, driving up the price you can achieve with them.

>> No.9901896

>>9897338
The personal car is not good for the environment.

>> No.9903943

>>9900293
he is right you know. also an internal combustion engine car will be kept around for 20+ years. a Tesla for example, breaks several times even during warranty. while some madman repair them, most will just throw them all away. (as repairing them is a PAIN and is a very costly process.)

>> No.9903947

>>9900269
>>9900260
> battery problem
So basically, the problem of electric cars since the 1800s. Great discovery, anon!

>> No.9904497

>>9897338
> Yeah they have no carbon emissions
This is patently false. That you think this is true give me cancer. All an electric car does from the pov of emissions is move the source, in doing so hoping to gain efficiency.

>> No.9904520

>>9897338

No, they aren't. In the end, if you really think about it, even the essentially primitive ones today are not only better for the environment, but safer and have greater possibility for innovation (hence the primitive part). However, hydrogen fueled cars might come out as a cheaper "green" solution, so of course it's going to be implemented over electric.

>> No.9905793

>>9897338
Memes or not, that is the future. Petrol will run out at one time and by then we must have a replacement.

>> No.9905846

>>9900289
Producing electricity is far more efficient than producing propulsion when it comes to carbon emissions.

>> No.9905918

>>9905793
>Petrol will run out at one time
I'll believe it when I see it
We hit peak oil 6 years ago according to some, It's still going strong

>> No.9905925

>>9897338
no, but tesla's are.

>> No.9906157

>>9897338
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-dQkv7r0i8

>> No.9906192

>>9898590
An internal combustion engine even at its most efficient is still hilariously inefficient compared to an electric car. That‘s likely not going to change anymore.
On top of that, making synthetic fuel is currently also very inefficient. But maybe someone figures out a cool solar cell that makes it much more efficient or some stuff.
Anyway, the point is, synthetic fuels used for every single car would require an increase in electricity production on an unprecedented scale. Electric cars might still stay at the right side of manageable.

>> No.9906197

I've always driven old-ass manual transmission trucks and SUVs since that's all my dad shilled when I was younger. Currently have a small truck and even though I love em, I'm definitely gonna get an electric car next. Tired of being a slave to the gas pump

>> No.9906807

>>9904520
Hydrogen is more expensive than electricity what are you on about saying it‘ll be cheaper?

>> No.9906866

The problem with lithium-ion batteries is energy density. It works ok with cars, but not with larger vehicles like airliners.

>> No.9907072

>>9906866
it'll only take a ~20% energy density boost from current numbers for light, 2-seater planes to be relatively practical. Even right now, things like the Alpha Electro are flying around; it received FAA airworthiness certs this year. 30 mile range, but it cuts training costs by thousands of dollars

>> No.9907118
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9907118

Electric cars are not a meme.

Tesla, however, IS a meme. Fuck Tesla, I'll never buy one of their stupid cars. I'd rather buy an electric car made by people who actually like cars, rather than a car made by people who like iPads.

>> No.9907156

>>9907118
GE shill pls go

>> No.9907283

>>9898581
I believe the man who gave us lithium batteries is the one who created the proof of concept for their successor recently.

>> No.9907332

>>9897338
You forgot that pure electric vehicles are also less energy efficient.
(even assuming 100% efficiency at all levels for electric energy and absurdly low efficiency for chemical energy, including synthesis)

>> No.9907336

>>9906157
>because obfuscation meme is negligibly more viable for errand driving than critics believe, it is no longer an obfuscation meme
WEW. Nothing can cheat physics, and without power beaming hardware, pure electric vehicles will never be more efficient than chemically powered vehicles. (and that doesn't even consider things like utility, risk-reward, needing to embrace communism, etc)

>> No.9907355

>>9907336
>>9907332
I can't tell if you're trolling or just stupid.

>> No.9907410

>>9907355
Consider the following: Energy density and momentum.

>> No.9907419

>>9897338
>$90,000 and 5000 lbs

lol no. call me when Honda releases their EV Sport Coupe

>> No.9907427

>>9907118
You're 3/5ths right.
Electric cars are not memes, however pure electric cars are complete memes. Yes, tesla is a meme hobby buisness.

>> No.9907558
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9907558

>>9907283
Hopefully his new batteries are Goodenough.

>> No.9907659

>>9901896
This.

>> No.9907696

>>9898606
Not for much longer. There's a government research lab that has developed an aluminum alloy that can covert water into pure hydrogen on contact and reach optimum conversion efficiency in less than three minutes.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2142693-nano-aluminium-offers-fuel-cells-on-demand-just-add-water/

You wouldn't have to store the hydrogen in big, bulky tanks but rather just store jugs of water on the vehicle and convert that water into hydrogen on the fly by pumping it through a filter made of that alloy.

>> No.9907698
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9907698

>>9907558
that name still gets me

>> No.9907799

>>9898590

https://youtu.be/aMMFAu8hoHQ

>> No.9909015

>>9897338
hemp. magnesium (can be converted back after) and hydrogen are all ultra sustainable battery choices

>> No.9909037

>>9907410
hydrogen energy density is very high. use a hydrogen fuel cell electric...
>>9907336
what about carbon nanotubes of various kinds for efficiency? go see.
chemical is unsustainable and that's the point. but the sun, wind, tides are gonna be around as long as this planet is. so efficiency loss doesn't matter overall, the energy is going to be here on earth anyway. as long as it's a clean electricity source.
>>9906807
current batteries such as lithium are extremely expensive both to consumer and environment. hydrogen fuel cell will be cheaper once they are released properly.

>> No.9909065

>>9909037
>hydrogen energy density is very high. use a hydrogen fuel cell electric...
A tank strong enough to store it safely makes the increased energy density meaningless. Volumetric energy density is also important.

>what about carbon nanotubes of various kinds for efficiency?
Those offer weight savings at the cost of safety, and are not an 'improvement' unique to electric vehicles and therefore irrelevant.

>chemical is unsustainable
No it's not. Even with only synthesis, it is still more energy efficient.

>but the sun, wind, tides are gonna be around as long as this planet is
Cool, we better get on those as fast as naturally economically viable so that we have the energy to synthesize fuel so that way transportation and energy storage stay viable.

>so efficiency loss doesn't matter overall
Yes it does. We recieve a finite amount of energy, pissing a large amount away in the name of 'progress' so that leftists feel good is not a good idea. Using the finite energy that we receive most efficiently with chemically powered transportation is a good idea.

>as long as it's a clean electricity source
with the advent of catalytic converts and scrubbing ceramics, clean energy is a complete meme only used by sophists and the ignorant normies.


(Pure) Electric vehicles have their benefits, but they are outweighed by the negatives for anything other than miniaturization. You can have all the benefits of electric vehicles and chemical vehicles with none of the downsides of electric vehicles. It's called (a competently non-leftist designed) extended range electric. If you care I can explain what a competently designed one would consist of more in depth.

>> No.9909068

>>9906807
I'm saying the cost of making it feasible for completely replacing fossil fuels (implementing infrastructure, designing engines, creating a method of safe storage, etc.) might be cheaper then electricity, maybe.

>> No.9909188

>>9898581
If you look around a bit, people are working on like 20 different promissing battery solutions right now. Basically every University is working on at least one new miracle component or an entire miracle battery the way it feels like.
All of this promisses to be much better than Lithium Ion or much cheaper or much safer or all of the above.
It's only a matter of time, before one of them pulls through. I'd be actually confounded if not a single one of those was actually viable for mass production within 10 years or so.
Batteries recently have gotten incredibly more efficient and it seems unlikely that this is just going to stop now.

>> No.9909224

>>9907696
>instead of using water and using tons of electricity to turn it into hydrogen
>we use water and aluminium - a metal that requires tons of electricity to make - in order to turn it into hydrogen
Brilliant. Truly the hydrogen economy is saved.

>> No.9909958
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9909958

>>9907696
It sounds like the aluminum alloy is consumed during the reaction, stripping the oxygen out of the water to form aluminum oxide & hydrogen, which then goes to the fuel cell. So you would periodically need to refuel the powder & dump the aluminum oxide.

This could end up being viable; aluminum & water are certainly a lot easier to handle than hydrogen, but you would have to figure out the amount & cost of the aluminum needed for a set driving distance, to see if it is cost effective. Or even reasonable in terms of weight; the article didn't say how much aluminum powder was needed to produce X amount of hydrogen.

>> No.9910023

>>9909958
Yeah sure, it's theoretically viable. Who cares? It will still be less efficient and have less utility than combustion powered vehicles.
Powering a vehicle with a giant nitinol spring is technically viable, it's still an idiotic idea.

>> No.9910054

>>9898606

Nothings wrong with liquid methane fuel. Besides they process methane to produce industrial hydrogen anyhow. Why not skip the hydrogen and go right to the methane.

I still like electric but methane is a good middle ground.

>> No.9910067

>>9910054
Why not something convinent and naturally liquid? Say in the hexane to dodecane range?

>> No.9910069

>>9910023
What if instead of directly powering the motors it continually recharged a bank of nanotube-enhanced ultracapacitors that would in turn send that stored energy to the motors in large bursts when needed?

>> No.9910077

>>9910069
I don't know, that sounds like it might be more efficient. We should probably just stick to just using capacitors and stopping whenever necessary to recharge them. After all, pure electric vehicles are the future.

>> No.9910116

>>9910077
But ultracapacitors dump their stored power in a single burst so they need another power source to continuously recharge them for repeated usage (and they can be recharged in seconds).

Think of an ultracapacitor as a gun and the charge it stores as a bullet in the chamber. A contraption to store and continually load bullets into the chamber like a magazine or ammo belt is needed if you want it to fire off multiple rounds in quick succession rather than hand-load the bullet into the chamber after every shot like the muskets of old were.

Also the thing that's special about NTE U-Caps is that they can hold the same charge as a battery of equal size whereas conventional ultracapacitors have to be twice the size of a battery to hold the same charge.

>> No.9910157

>>9910116
I was making a tongue-in-cheek comment calling pure electric advocates retarded faggots.

>> No.9910158
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9910158

I seriously think mankind fucked up personal transportation with the car, a rail system with automated cars would have been much better and safer but now it’s too late because of the costs.
It would be much easier for cars to get power from rails than from batteries and with automated maglev system there would be no accidents at all.

>> No.9910162

>>9910157
Oh, sorry I couldn't tell. I'm used to anons including a reaction image or an emoticon at the end of their posts as an indicator of when they do that.

>> No.9910166

>>9910162
So how are those new meme caps different from normal super caps?

>> No.9910172

>>9910166
Well they use carbon nanotubes to store the charge. Since carbon nanotubes have a uniform shape they can store the charge evenly throughout the u-cap. The nano-scale structure of the materials used in conventional u-caps are variable and irregular in shape so they store the charge unevenly throughout the u-cap.

>> No.9910197

>lithium is rare though
What if Elon uses SpaceX to wrangle a lithium asteroid?

>> No.9910198

>>9910197
Combustion would still be more efficient.

>> No.9910296

>>9910158
The key to the car's success was that it could got literally anywhere.
Rails don't go absolutely anywhere. Especially if they cost as ridiculously much as Maglev tracks.

>> No.9910630

Electric so᠌yboys always forget to mention that electric cars produce more particulates from road and tire wear due to bigger weight.

>> No.9912257

>>9907427
>Tesla
>meme
11.7b USD revenue 2017
28.6b USD total asset 2017
Stock price at time of writing 349.54 USD

There are plenty of reasons to think tesla is garbage, but it is demonstrably not a meme.

>> No.9912308

>>9912257
>Theranos
>meme
800 million USD valuation
Stock price at the time of writing $0.

>> No.9912546

>>9897338
>Yeah they have no carbon emissions

That depends entirely on how the electricity is being generated. And if we add a large fleet of such cars, and need to radically up the rate at which we are producing electricity, burning more fossil fuels is the only real short-term way to do it.

I don;t know whether they are more or less "green" to produce, or to dispose of, than regular cars. Would be interested to know.

And, of course, they probably release a little carbon when they burst into flames like that.

>> No.9912551

>>9897526
So is your position that electric cars will not really be feasible on a very large scale until we achieve fusion reactors on a large scale?

>> No.9914206

>>9897338
> No emissions

Lot of dumb niggers in this thread...

>> No.9914250

>>9897338
The only problem is power density really.

>> No.9914620
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9914620

>>9907118
I agree with this, Electric cars are definitely the future, but Tesla's just give me that fake futuristic look. Wait till Honda,Toyota, Ford, Mitsubishi, GM, Chevy Etc make a car. If I'm getting an EV its going to have physical buttons and knobs not some slippery glass touchscreen. I want an electric car that looks like it can take a beating and still work reliably, Not some Tesla where a scratch or bump shuts everything down, I also hate how only Tesla workers can service Tesla cars, That is some retarded John Deere logic right there. People should be able to service their own damn cars and equipment.

>> No.9915070
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9915070

>>9914620
Several of the mainstream auto makers have already produced electric cars, but for the most part they look like they were beaten with a sustainably-grown ugly stick. The Bolt here is sadly one of the better looking ones - take a look at the Mitsubishi iMiev, Nissan Leaf, or BMW i3. The only decent looking ones are the Jaguar iPace and some of the converted compliance cars, like the Focus Electric.

That said I completely agree with you on the interiors; I like buttons, and find center gauges like Tesla is doing on the Model 3 absolutely unacceptable in real world use.

>> No.9915109

>>9897481
>the electric car also waives all environmental responsibility and puts it on whatever is powering the grid
Its still way better for the environment compared to ICE cars even if its powered purely by coal. ICE are incredibly inefficient.

>> No.9915131

>>9910077
>just using capacitors
Thats not how these things work

>> No.9915134

Solar powered cars are the FUTURE

>> No.9915155

>>9897338
Any of you negros know if there is an EV or hybrid small truck? I would buy one today if there was. I'm talking like Nissan d21/frontier style small. Or really just a Prius with a truck bed. I aint seen one.

>> No.9915211

>>9897338
Amonia powered cars is future

>> No.9915230

>>9905918

That's only because we found out how to do facking around that same time. If it weren't for that I honestly don't know what kind of situation we'd be in right now. It's not like we can rely on Fracking either and the process itself already harms the environment thanks to shithouse companies cutting corners.

>> No.9915237

>>9897338
>Are electric cars marketing memes?
Yes. It's just another engineered distraction to keep people from demanding the suppressed reversed engineered UFO tech be made available to the public

>> No.9915249

>>9897338
4chan is not a conservative website. Take your misinformation shilling elsewhere.

>> No.9915346

>>9915155
wait three years

>> No.9916420

>>9915230
We've know how to do (and have been) fracking for almost 70 years. The new innovation was horizontal fracking. Anti-fracking hysteria is a meme used by useful idiots and the ignorant.

>> No.9916423

>>9916420
>>9915230
sorry. I meant useful idiots and the dishonest.

>> No.9916478

>not just making liquid electricity and pouring it into a normal cars gas tank

lmao