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/sci/ - Science & Math

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987555 No.987555 [Reply] [Original]

Hey, /sci/ i have a question about the theory of evolution

Well, Darwin proved micro-evolution exists, and school teached me that his theory can explain every kind of evolution.
My question is "what about MACRO-evolution", for example, how a specie can increase its number of chromosome ? An organism with this mutation, with one chromosome more, would be sterile, no ?

>> No.987602

errors in meiosis.
Non-disjunction for example.

>> No.987625

>>987602
So, why various species have various number of chromosomes ? How does the theory of evolution explain that ?

>> No.987643

The legs that allow you to walk across the street can walk you all the way to China if given enough time.

>> No.987649

This distinction between micro and micro evolution is complete piss, the principles behind them are exactly the same, the only difference is the amount of time required.

Fundies can all go suck dick.

>> No.987650

>>987643
Dumbass, i want to understand

>> No.987654

inb4jesus did it.

>> No.987656

>Implying creationists go on /sci/
>Implying creationists can use the internet

>> No.987657

>>987649
That's what i thought, but how do you explain this FUCKING example with chromosomes ?

>> No.987663

>>987657
How about you ask your science teacher instead of posting your shit on a forum?

>> No.987666

Fuck

Why am i a creationist ? Because there is something i don't understand in this theory ?

FUCK

>> No.987678

>>987663
Because i dont have any biology teacher. That's all, but if you cant help me, i will try to find one...

>> No.987683

So, I'm sure you know a lot of DNA is junk and regulatory DNA. Like, you can have a single mutation in some gene sequence for some obscure molecule in a pathway and this can really fuck things up/create new things. So, getting this out of the way, when you mix and match copies of the same genes and add slight mutations via what >>987602 said and add a few million years, you get varying karyotypes.

>> No.987703

>>987643
Wrong. He can't walk across water.

>> No.987708

>>987703
He was right, i'm an eurofag...

>>987683
Thanks man

>> No.987718

>>987663
>4chan
>forum

How about you go back to whatever forum you came from?

>> No.987723

For OP's question:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/04/basics_how_can_chromosome_numb.php

>> No.987733
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987733

DOWNS SYNDROME FAGGOTS.

We get extra chromosomal mutations all the time.

A quarter of human pregnancies fail due to this.


Occasionally they survive and come out hurr-durr.

But if theree was some environmental pressure that made hurr-durrs MORE FIT FOR THAT ENVIRONMENT then the trait would be more likeley to be passed on.

>> No.987735

>>987723
Yeaaah, i love you

>> No.987737
File: 31 KB, 320x286, Down-Syndrome-Child-3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
987737

There is someone I'd like you to meet.

>> No.987738

>>987733
If they survive, they are sterile

>> No.987749

>>987555
>how a specie can increase its number of chromosome ? An organism with this mutation, with one chromosome more, would be sterile, no ?
This is dealing with speciation, which deals in both micro- and marcoevolution, if you care to distinguish the terms.

In a human, chromosomal abnormalities often, but not always, lead to various kinds of health problems. Many of these abnormalities are in fact neutral; they have neither a positive or a negative effect. Note that in humans and many other species, a chromosomal abnormality does not also imply sterility.

Basically, if you have a population that has a majority of members with more chromosomes that the larger species, have some sort of speciation event (where that population of a species becomes its own species), you'll go from one species with <span class="math">n[/spoiler] chromosomes to another species with <span class="math">n+1[/spoiler] chromosomes.

Note that humans and almost all other mammals are diploid, that means their chromosomes always come in pairs. So our above error would have to create a copy of a pair of chromosomes for them.

>> No.987757

>>987738
http://www.ds-health.com/faq.htm

>> No.987762

>>987723
Now that's good.
Everybody read this.

>> No.987767

Not all species are equally sensitive to changes in chromosomal numbers.

Fungi have no problem surviving this, plants have no problems, there are examples of insects as well.
Not only do they survive, they are not sterile.

Just because humans are biochemically very specialized and don't tolerate chromosomal abberations doesn't mean that life in general has problems with this.

>> No.987796

>>987663
> How about you discuss science somewhere else instead of discussing it on /sci/?

>> No.987798

THOSE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT MOLECULES DO

>> No.987821
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987821

>>987555
>He thinks the distinction between micro and macro evolution exist outside creationist logic

>> No.987835

Whati s your question OP? Why different species have different number of chromosomes?

Why not?
Because some mutated to have more chromosomes... or less... and it benefited them, obviously or they wouldn't have haad offspring.

>> No.987862

>>987835
Yes, i dont understand why the number of chromosome can evolute, because during meiosis it would bug with n+1 chromosomes and n chromosomes, but i gonna read the link of this guy >>987723 it seems very interesting

>> No.987983

>>987862
It doesn't bug.
They line up normally, and then split retardedly.
Sometimes this means the baby never grows, but there you go. Other times it works so only working babies are gonna make more. But it still works long enough to spread, and once you hook up with someone who split the same retarded way yours did, it works NORMAL again and now you're partway to being a different species.

>> No.988060

ACG ATA <organism

ACG ATA A < oops! a mistake!

100k years later (completely made up while i sit here, and i shaved my neckbeard this morning)

ACG ATA AC <oops another mistake!!

the process repeats

>> No.988073

>>987862
Read it. I think it actually answers your question and mine too, take a time to digest it

>> No.988079

>>988060
More like:
100 mistakes / every copy