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/sci/ - Science & Math

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986429 No.986429 [Reply] [Original]

hi /sci/ you think you so smart and have it all right? tell me what is consciousness.

>> No.986437

>>986429
lots of neurons firing

NEXT QUESTION

>> No.986440

>>986437
proof?

>> No.986442

Self-awareness

>> No.986446

>>986440
brain scans, etc.

>> No.986460

>>986446
what do you mean, what brain scans? cuz never heard of consciousness brain scans to be honest.

>> No.986473

we scan that persons brain and his consciousness is at a low level. <<< wtf?!

>> No.986476

>>986446
hey so in what part of the brain is the consciousness!? if you have the scans and stuff.

>> No.986484

or what kind of brain scans do you have exactly cuz you know there are lots of them, you do right, this is /sci/?

>> No.986485

Ill-defined 'suitcase' word that means so many things that nowone can come to a consensus on what exactly it means. I try not to use it in a scientific context.

>> No.986492

>>986476
all of the parts of the brain

>> No.986501

>>986429
here you go

>> No.986518

>>986485
dont make me laught consciousness means one thing only. inb4 consciousness isnt real. hahaha
/sci/ is all its a hoax or the word doesnt mean anything. hahahaha.
>>986492
haha how do you know that?
that means if a person looses some of its brain. i.e. tumor, does it loose some of its consciousness? i think you know its false.

>> No.986531

consciousness is a hoax!

>> No.986565

c'mon /sci/ consciousness is not scientific? then maybe science needs to lurk more?
you say its a side-effect of neurons acting, but have no proof (but fuckin not-yet-named brainscans) for it nor does you go deeper.

>> No.986580

>>986485
you dont know what consciousness means!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? how stupid are you?
or maybe you cant explain it to yourself in your present dogma and say its just cant be something real?
consciousness is consciousness is consciousness is consciousness is consciousness is consciousness is awareness. its the observer the observer the observer of the observer the observer of the observers observer.

>> No.986584

consciousness makes you free will.

>> No.986590

>>986492
all parts of the brain? ALL of them!? the one that makes my subconsciousness too!?

>> No.986591

Consciousness is the side affect of a lot of component and subcomponents of the brain working together.

It's like, if you take a pencil factory, can you show me "production?" No. But the inner workings of the factory lead to production of pencils. The inner workings of the brain lead to consciousness of thought and action.

>> No.986610
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986610

consciousness:

self awareness
proof -- self narration (I just walked into a room)
mental spatialization
proof -- close your eyes and type or think of a box or imagine the room you are sitting in

rocks and plant cant do these things

probably alot of over life forms as well but whose to say.

>> No.986617

inb4 how it works before what it is

>> No.986619

>>986591
oh yeah thats fuckin scientific, pencil factory.
and ofcorz.... (tremble) "lot of component and subcomponents working together."
"The inner workings of the brain lead to consciousness of thought and action." now i get it. its the inner workings. yes very scientific. so the universe is an inner working of god that leads to everything. you see. its very complex components and subcomponents of the laws that give the universe as a side-effect of god.

It's like, if you take a pencil factory, can you show me "production?"
yes i fuckin can. go watch discovery channel they have a whole show showing you the "production"

>> No.986622

PEOPLE THIS IS OBVIOUS TROLLING FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT POST HERE

>> No.986633

>>986610
yeah i think so too, but it goes way beyond the SELFS-awareness in my opinion, but who knows, right? not /sci/ i guess.

>> No.986650

>>986622
"i dont know the anwser, this must be troling me"
grow up, you delusional mofo.

>> No.986665

>>986633
as in tapping into the metaphysical structure of the universe, sure.
proof --mathematics

>> No.986667

>>986428

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>> No.986672

/sci/ do you know, that there is no scientific paradigm, no scientific experiments, no scientific conclusion on what the consciousness is? so, the question is. do science needs to lurk more or is consciousness nor real at all? i guess you know the anwserr to that one.

>> No.986682

>>986665
lets not go to metapsychical. im for experimental data FTW! if an experiment can be repated then it haz a valid point here or there. no psilosophys only experimental and practical.

>> No.986695

Hey OP.

You're either a troll, or you misunderstand science. You asked for our explanations, so we're giving them. There isn't really a lot of evidence because there isn't much evidence to be had. It's near impossible to test it, really.

Science doesn't pretend to know all of the answers. But we do have damn-good explanations most of the time.

Now gtfo, troll/idiot.

>> No.986706

yeah we /sci/ have figured it out. what that consciousness is. it is very simple and scientific. you see consciousness is just lots of neurons firing. how do we know that? well its simple too. you see we have brain scans, etc. you know we cut of the brain from the skull placed it on a scanner and guess what, consciousness shows up on this scans. we are so scientific no argues with us. if you disagree you must be trolling cuz we cant be wrong, right?

>> No.986718

>>986706
When your only argument is "NO YOUR WRONG HURR," it's pretty obvious you're trolling. Or an idiot.

>> No.986755

>>986718
>>986695
im not a troll! you seem to be ok so ill be honest with you. im into psychedelic, entheogenic plants for some time now. i had several experience which i can not explain in any terms. you there give the problem of the observer of the consciousness. so to say it is nothing real, its just a nobody-dont-know-why side-effect of the brains non-free-will-chemistry. just - my opinion - becouse you can not give it any other meaning in the dogma you live in. if i am wrong, give me scientific data on dizzz one.

>> No.986764

i am drunk bump!

>> No.986766

>>986718
"" hurrr durrr i post brainscans so i must be legit, you must be an idiot if you dont agree"""""

>> No.986779

>>986755
Formulate an argument instead of telling us about your experiences with psychoactive substances.

>> No.986787

Conciousness, it's a consequence.

Let me simplifie.

The consequence of the membrane in your ear vibrating is you hearing something. And now, the consequences of the things you hear have other consequences, however, those consequences are very related to sound.
Consciousness is different kind of consequence, it has a little bit of all your senses.
Sound, view, feeling etcetc.

So, if you mix all your sense together, you get consciousness.

>> No.986829

>>986787
how do you know, wtf? if you mix a microphone with a camera with force/pressure detoctors etc. etc. you get consciousness???? gtfo
>>986779
i did not tell you even of one of mine experiences with psychedelics. but i want to, I just dont know if you can tell me anything about it. cuz you know, the psychosis-mimetic model has been proven wrong a long time ago.

>> No.986828

I like Fritjof Capra's definition, that "mind" is a mathematical characteristic, that it's basically an extension of cybernetic principle, self-government by feedback, and that some machines and even chemical processes exhibit "mind" of different types and levels. I mean, what is consiousness but an awareness of self, and that is the basis of cybernetic math.

>> No.986843

>>986828
fuck your "i like the definition of", proof, scientifical experiments or gtfo.

>> No.986868

>>986779
formulate an argument on what? that consciousness, free will, is real? i dont think you need an argument on that one. but ok i can give you one, pull your hand in front of you in a "sieg heil" position then, move it right or left, up or down whatever you want. that proofs of free will consciousness control of your hands/arms. anybody can replicate this experience so its scientific valid.

>> No.986887

and yeah i know what you will reply, uuu that is just a neuron-chemistry reaction that is automatic, consciousness is just a side effect of it, its not that i want to move the arm down or up its chemistry that moves it i just watch as a side effect, nothing i can controll. the neurons fire a electro-chemical sygnals to the muscles of that arm in a order based on the calculations of the stimulus that goes to the brain from the perception apparatus. so you see there is nothing of free will consciousness here, no it is not any of value that I-observer-consciousness choose if it is up or down it is jsut a non-real side-effect.

>> No.986905

hurr durr we are /sci/ consciousness and free will is just a mass-psychosis, a not real side-effect of the brain electro-chemistry. lol.

>> No.986920

consciousness is phone

>> No.986931
File: 112 KB, 298x402, 1271874051388.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
986931

That it is related to the brain, or atleast comes in contact with the world via the brain, we could all agree on. As to the exact mechanisms i think we only have nonvalidated hypotheses, with respect to that science should lurk more. I feel that most people here reserve those words out of fear for religious people thinking this is a way to worm in god, however that argument seems easier to counter than saying science shouldn't lurk more.

>> No.986940

>>986931
Well of course we should "lurk moar," but that doesn't mean that science is completely clueless or doesn't have any plausible answers.

There's simply no way to test most of it, making it, by definition, not scientific.

>> No.986942

A simple reaction of certain chemicals inside the organ known as the brain. I won't /thread this post because you already did in your brain.

>> No.986963

>>986942
hahahahaha you are an idiot and you dont know what you saying. simple chemical reaction in the brainz? if so simple maybe you could write down that simple chemical reaction that is so simple to you? c'mon plz i want to know!!!!1111
i know few simple chemical reaction i can post, sure i do.

>> No.986997

FeS + 2HCl → FeCl2 + H2S↑ <<< is that a simple chemical reaction? does is it?

>> No.987002

or does the camera + microphone combo side-effect the consciousness!?!?!? /sci/ you got me all confused.

>> No.987011

/sci/ dont let me down : (
you dont want to tell me that science dont know anything about the consciousness?

>> No.987009

>>987002
How about both?

>> No.987016

>>986963
>hi, im trolling.

>> No.987017

>>987009
you mean FeS + 2HCl → FeCl2 + H2S↑ chemical reaction pluged to a microphone and a camera?

>> No.987022

>>987016
hey fuck you im not trollin maybe it is a simple chemical reaction to you, but not to me. c'mon write that reaction down plz plz plz i could win nobel with this.

>> No.987023

>>987022
>troll trying to troll the untrollable

>> No.987028

>>987023
?? what do you have in mind? what do you mean?

>> No.987031

>>987028
>makes troll post
>chuckles to self
>reads post describing what happened

>> No.987047

>>987028
ok, fuck you my friend. all you can post is "it is a simple chemical reaction in brain" which doesnt even mean anything. you even know what a chemical reaction looks like? who is the troll; fuck off.
post that reaction or gtfo.

>> No.987056

>>987031
i was posting to these one, bump.

>> No.987057

Fags that think chemicals come before a decision is made based on genetic code and wiring.

Those brain reactions represent a signal being sent with whatever sensations are supposed to be felt at the moment to a silent mechanism which makes decisions.

We have not found where decisions are made -- but we know they are made before signals are represented in a scan.

Think about it: Information comes in. The brain translates it based on its (custom logic based on experience) structure which is relayed to _______.

>> No.987065

Im guessing Mr Burns is actually on ecstasy or amphetamine right?

>> No.987069

on mushrooms, cannabinos, alkohol! FUCK YEAH ! :D

>> No.987080

/sci/ honestly, you need to lurk moar.
can you triforce even?

>> No.987082

▲
▲▲

>> No.987087

>>987080
what's that?

>> No.987088

This thread makes neuroscience sad.

>> No.987105

>>987088
hahahaha fuck YOUR neuroscience, you think YOUR neuroscience has any valid theory on the consciousness, free will, or anything on that level? then fuckin post it you faggot shit fuck troll fuck trap no-brain shitfuck troll faggot troll you.
>>987087
its me trolling. i like you, you know whats up, yes yes hahafhasoghaiskegnsey hahaha

>> No.987113

>>986829
No. As I said, I've simplified it. If your five sense were enough to enable you to question yourself it would be easy.

The secret lies within the comparison of , say, dogs and humans. Ask yourself why a dog can't question its existence while a human can. You will find certain human traits, trace them back and understand how they interact.

>> No.987116

>>987105
>neuroscience has any valid theory on the consciousness, free will, or anything on that level?

Yes.

Go look up Daniel Dennet and quit being a lazy troll.

>> No.987119

>>987113
how fuckin scientific methodology. gtfo to /b/, if you want to post bullshit like this.

>> No.987139

>>987116
hahaha oh yeah, go check up aleister crowley, go check up rupert sheldrake, terence mckenna, raplph abraham, fuckin plato. give me a valid experiment or gtfo. i dont care about your psylosophy, ancient greek nietzshe bullshit. give me practical experiment.

>> No.987171

IT'S LIKE I'M AT /X/!!!!!!!!!!!

>> No.987172

HURR DURR DERP-A-DEPR WE ARE /sci/ CONSCIOUSNESS ARE ONLY SIMPLE CHEMICAL REACTIONS. SO SIMPLE THAT IF YOU ASK OF THEM YOU MUST BE TROLL. HUURRRRR DURRRR.

>> No.987177

>>987139
>>987139


lololol it's obvious you're one of those people who reads news reports that say "scientists say..." and completely believe the findings and have never ventured into a scientific journal website/library.

There isn't a single experiment, there are tons. lrn2 Alzheimer's, brain lesions, MRI, etc. Studies on the hippocampus, evolutionary lineages of neuronal function. Biological experiments are like objective building blocks. Everything else is left to logical reasoning and versification.

>> No.987181

>>987172
I don't think anyone claimed that.

>> No.987180

CHEMISTRY BRAIN REACTION IS SO SIMPLE TO US THAT WE KNOW HOW IT GENERATES CONSCIOUSNESS. BUT DONT ASK OF US HOW THAT REACTION LOOKS LIKE CUZ YOU MUST BE A TROLL TO ASK THAT QUESTION.

>> No.987182

>>987180
Straw man argument and begging the question. I doubt you'll have anyone explaining neuroscience to you in a few posts on an imageboard.

>> No.987184

consciousness is like, when you're thinking and shit

>> No.987192

consciousness- JESUS DID IT

>> No.987201

>>987181
that one claimed it so.
>>986942

>> No.987205

If this idiot really sought to understand consciousness, he wouldn't respond to explanations given to him with "WRONG ASSHOLE TELL ME GIVE ME AN EXPERIMENTS LOLZ TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME"
He'd point out specifically what part of the argument he wasn't satisfied with and further the discussion because it's a complex subject and to define all of it on an image board is not likely to happen, but to address specific questions by an individual leads to intelligent conversation.

Instead, this idiot is likely a troll (since trolls don't stick around so fervently) and is more likely an idiot who thinks because he's "experienced" something differently, it means the whole world isn't what it seems!!!!


I have so many friends like this and they all think scientists are arrogant when they laugh at their ignorance.

>> No.987210

>>987201
Sorry then, my bad.

>> No.987215

>>987177
yeah the ailzheimer really shows the nature of free will. it really does. yeah that is the one thing that does, nothing else does it like the alzheimer. you know you forget shit when you go alzheimer and you loose consciousness all the time when you alzheimer, yes you do. alzheimer people are so not conscious that they should kill them. gtfo out you trolll.

>> No.987223

>>987205
hahaha, fuck you troll. give me the post that explained anything at all. and fuck you want to say with that "on an image board is not likely to happen" !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!? is that a fuckin argument, gtfo i dont want to talk with you.

>> No.987229

sage
Anyone posting after this has been successfully trolled

>> No.987235

UNLIMITED SAGE WORKS

>> No.987238

>>987229
hmzhmzhmzhmz
i could give you experimental data on state of consciousness but you would say that i am trolling or stupid or it is a hoax. so what is the point, the truth is the only thing you can say about higher level science like the consciousness is that it is an electro-chemical reaction that no one can write down. really science of you, im gettin the fuck out of here. i hoped i found logic, skeptical scientific thoughts here ; (

>> No.987245
File: 87 KB, 614x604, 1268139889581.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
987245

My face when people think there is any place for free will in any system. Also in my opinion consciousness doesn't exist, i have never encountered it.

>> No.987253

im not sci hence i know what consciousness is, because i allow myself to know things i haven't learnt

protip: the future is not determined but it can still be predicted

>> No.987255

>>987245
oh yeah free will doesnt exist, consciousness doesnt exist all criminals should be free then cuz the things they done its not choices cuz them arent real. you stupid nigger i hope someone would rape you and you would then think it wasnt their free choice they have to rape my 12 old year old sister. fuck you stupid troll.

>> No.987267

>>987255

"It's not my fault! I was predetermined to do it!"

"Well asshole, our societal structure is built in a predetermined way to execute/jail/punish any entity which performs the acts that you have."

>> No.987280

>>987267
ok, you think you so smart there is no free will, there is no consciousness, the future is so prederminate. then fuckin show it to me. not just say empty words. equation, some fact from future - lottery winning would be ok, but you know i take anything. but make it fast.

>> No.987284

>>987267
That's not how you sage, desuyo~

>> No.987296

>>987284
thats not how you /sci/

>> No.987336

/sci/ im going to sleep but i like you to know, that the only anwsers you have on the question of consciousness is:
-lots of neurons firing <<< do you need a comment?
-brain scans, etc. <<< that explains all.
-nowone can come to a consensus on what exactly it(consciousness) means
-Consciousness is the side affect of a lot of component and subcomponents of the brain <<lulz
-PEOPLE THIS IS OBVIOUS TROLLING
-in my opinion consciousness doesn't exist
-complex subject and to define all of it on an image board is not likely to happen
-There isn't a single experiment, there are tons. lrn2 Alzheimer's
-secret lies within the comparison of , say, dogs and humans. Ask yourself why a dog can't question its existence while a human can. <<< (wtf!!!??)
-A simple reaction of certain chemicals inside the organ known as the brain. <<< so simple nobody knows the reaction.

i really think you shoukd rename the board to "highschool homework science" or something.
see you, fuckin wannabe science wannabe.

>> No.987363

>>987336
Consciousness is the side affect of a lot of component and subcomponents of the brain

sigh. this of course, is an assumption. a logical step in the wrong direction. you're probably one of those evolutionists

>> No.987381

>>987336
>>987363
TROLL GRIP SLIPPING!
SHIFTING DOWN COUPLE GEARS!
OH NO!
STILL LOOSING GRIP!
SHIFTING TO LOW RANGE!