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/sci/ - Science & Math

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9863765 No.9863765 [Reply] [Original]

Are chiropractors pseudo? I tired looking up the efficacy of spinal manipulation therapy but couldn't find any real conclusion. What are your thoughts / experiences with these people?

>> No.9863780

>>9863765
Pesudo

Next question

>> No.9863781
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9863781

>> No.9863924
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9863924

Chiropractics can be a perfectly legitimate field. In principle it makes perfect sense as the spine holds the spinal cord(wow) and of course physically adjusting it will have effects. The problem is that for some reason chiropractics attracts some weird, shady people that like selling crystal healing, homeopathy, other such nonsense. As in all things, some chiropractors are genuine and hold their own work to highest medical standards while others are just trying to cheat you out of your money.

>> No.9863938

stay the fuck away if you an actual back problem

I had some minor discomfort from a slipped disk and a chiro put me out of commission for a month, I could barely walk

I dunno what it is like if you just some minor muscle discomfort or whatever but I can't imagine it's good, they are basically a cult

>> No.9863947

>>9863924
All the woo woo isn't random weirdos it attracts, it's essentially the chiropractic mission statement. They believe their one stupid trick cures all ills, same as any other altmed

>> No.9863949

>>9863765
>>9863938
Listen to this anon. My dad went to a chiropractor once for his back pain due to weight lifting and the fucking hack actually damaged one of his disks and caused him to have neck complications his whole life (he had several surgeries due to this as well)

>> No.9864060

>>9863947
I know that there is this chiropractic meme of the "innate" that some guys overuse but the underlying theory and method are completely legitimate.

>> No.9864068

>>9864060
[chortling condescendingly]

>> No.9864070

>>9864060
the underlying theory is that God told some dude that all human health issues are mediated through the spine, and the methods don't provide consistent benefits. it's as legitimate as homeopathy

>> No.9864098

>>9863765
Chiropractors are not only pseudo, they are legit dangerous.

They won't just not help your actual problem, they can easily cause serious fucking damage.

>> No.9864107

>>9863938
This happened to a buddy of mine
Said he couldn't walk in a straight line

>> No.9864136

Yes, they're pseudo. The only. ONLY. legitimate use of chiropractic is the treatment of muscle aches and pains in the back. They do nothing that a licensed physical therapist couldn't do (less, in fact).

>>9864060
They're not though.

>> No.9864142

>>9863924
>>9864060

t. chiropractor

>> No.9864154

Even if chiropractic worked? It does more harm than good. Most chiropractors give you WAY more x-rays than you could ever need just so they can milk your insurance, and their manipulations have legitimate chances at causing permanent damage or death.

>> No.9864356

>>9863765
I honestly have more trust in leeches as a medical treatment

>> No.9864369

I think it totally depends on your condition. My mom went to went because of a herniated disc, but ultimately all the chiropractor did was hurt her. She later got surgery because bone fragments were pressing on her nerves. Surgery was successful and no problems, 20+ years later.

>> No.9864372

> A backrub feels nice

Yeah, you can do that.

>I can heal an injury in your back by poking at it.

No, no you can't.

>I can cure cancer by giving you backrub. Go ahead and stop with your cancer meds and shit, I got this.

GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM ME YOU FUCKING STUPID PIECE OF SHIT, AND I HOPE YOU ROT IN HELL FOR THE LIVES YOU RUIN!

>> No.9864387

>>9864070
The "doesn't provide consistent benefits" is misleading. One of the most useful applications of chiropractics is to treat chronic pain, what usually happens is that elderly patients go in to get treated for this, they get treated and feel better, then a few weeks later they need to come back. This is not because the treatments were not effective but because the issues that cause their pain(the fact that they are old) are untreatable. These cases skew the reports on chiropractors to imply that they are incapable of producing consistent, long lasting results despite the fact that these patients are far better off by receiving treatments then they would be if they did not. What I'm trying to say there is that, though their pain will return eventually( because they are old), they still experience less pain over all due to the treatments. Saying that it doesn't work because the pain will be back is defeatist.

>> No.9864388

>>9864098
All doctors are capable of doing serious damage

>> No.9864415

>>9863765
Well I tell ya I don't want some guy touching my wife like that

>> No.9864422

>>9863765
Chiro is 100% bullshit

if you have legit problems with your body go to a physical therapist or an occupational therapist

>> No.9864425
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9864425

>>9863765
yes
>>9863924
No it cant, traditional chiropractic is straight up homeopathy quackery. That chiropractors call themselves doctors gives me cancer.

Literally just reading the wikipedia page tell you all you need to know.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic_controversy_and_criticism
>According to magnetic healer Daniel D. Palmer, the founder of chiropractic, "vertebral subluxation" was the sole cause of all diseases and manipulation was the cure for all diseases of the human race.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic

>D. D. Palmer founded chiropractic in the 1890s,[22] after saying he received it from "the other world"
>The American Medical Association called chiropractic an "unscientific cult" in 1966
> Systematic reviews of this research have not found evidence that chiropractic manipulation is effective, with the possible exception of treatment for back pain.
>A critical evaluation found that collectively, spinal manipulation was ineffective at treating any condition
And my personal favourite
>There is not sufficient data to establish the safety of chiropractic manipulations.[12] It is frequently associated with mild to moderate adverse effects, with serious or fatal complications in rare cases.[13] There is controversy regarding the degree of risk of vertebral artery dissection, which can lead to stroke and death, from cervical manipulation.[14] Several deaths have been associated with this technique[13] and it has been suggested that the relationship is causative,[15][16] a claim which is disputed by many chiropractors.[16]

Not only is it utter nonsense, its dangerous nonsense.

>> No.9864431

>>9864415
Yeah no doubt

>> No.9864455

>>9863765
I believe that spinal manipulation, if done correctly, works. I think the pseudo comes from the dubious origins of the practice and the very poor regulation.

From my understanding proper chiropractic is one-and-done. You get an x-ray, isolate the problem, and adjust. The chiropractors that crack your whole back and invite you back are scammers.

>> No.9864701

>>9863765
Some of the stretches and massages are good for some kinds of pain. All the cracking is a bad idea and very dangerous. People have died from it, and it doesn't really accomplish anything.

All the spiritual new-age woo bullshit is just that, bullshit.

>> No.9864751

>>9864455
You dont even need an xray. Theres nothing a chiropractor can do or treat that's visible on an xray.

>> No.9864753

>>9864388
Sure, but real doctors tell you about the risks beforehand. No chiropractor on the planet tells their patient about the increased risk of blood vessel perforation and asks their consent before cracking their neck.

>> No.9864921

>Physiologists divide nerve-fibers, which form the nerves, into two classes, afferent and efferent. Impressions are made on the peripheral afferent fiber-endings; these create sensations that are transmitted to the center of the nervous system. Efferent nerve-fibers carry impulses out from the center to their endings. Most of these go to muscles and are therefore called motor impulses; some are secretory and enter glands; a portion are inhibitory, their function being to restrain secretion. Thus, nerves carry impulses outward and sensations inward. The activity of these nerves, or rather their fibers, may become excited or allayed by impingement, the result being a modification of functionality – too much or not enough action – which is disease
What is wrong with this?

>> No.9864932

>>9864753
>No chiropractor on the planet tells their patient about the increased risk of blood vessel perforation and asks their consent before cracking their neck.
Sure...
Many MDs prescribe antibiotics for viral infections and don't inform their patients about the risks. Does this mean medical science is a sham? No, it means those specific doctors are wrong. I am not denying that there are chiropractors who are horrible people, I'm just saying that physical manipulation can be as our more effective than alternatives.

>> No.9864939

>>9864154
>Even if medicine worked? It does more harm than good. Most doctors give you WAY more antibiotics than you could ever need just so they can milk your insurance, and their drugs have legitimate chances at causing permanent damage or death.

>> No.9865025

>>9864932
>I'm just saying that physical manipulation can be as our more effective than alternatives.
Yeah and im just saying you are are wrong, go find peer reviewed papers supporting the efficacy of chiropractic. You cant because they dont exist.

>> No.9865034
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9865034

>>9863765
BOL-

>> No.9865035 [DELETED] 
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9865035

>>9865034
LOCKS

>> No.9865202
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9865202

I don't care if it's pseud or not - went for a month 2 years ago, and haven't had any neck/back/wrist pain ever since. And it was paid by state health insurance, so I don't double care.

>> No.9865239

Dr. Ian is one of the few legit ones i've seen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84QcCU_OtGE

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVd8CaoOoKdicbPnPvUwBhA/videos?sort=p&view=0&flow=grid

>> No.9865446

There are some minor cases where chiropractic can help.
Think acute pains from weird movements.

But they won't get rid of chronic pains and postural issues.

They aren't fucking doctors though, they are like a shitty version of physiotherapists.

>> No.9865449

>>9865035
I like how you included controversial-but-plausable stuff along with the completely wack stuff.

>> No.9865454

>>9863765
I hate how they use an adjective as a noun. It's "chiropraxis" not "chiropractic". This error makes them all seem ignorant.

>> No.9865457

>>9865449
I like how you didn't specify any examples out of fear that someone might give a counter-argument.

>> No.9865461

>>9865239
>subluxation
Into the trash he goes. That guy isn't a great actor, desu. Too much moaning.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertebral_subluxation#Critiques

>> No.9865552

>>9864425
It just works, sorry sweetie.

>> No.9865662

>>9864939
except that doctors are upfront about the risks of the drugs and every bottle of pills comes with a four-plus page list of every side effect ever encountered on the drug. the patient is informed.

>> No.9865663

>>9865552
I can just fly and turn base metal into gold, sorry sweetie.

>> No.9865678

>>9865202
This is fine, as long as you are aware it is quack status

>> No.9865732

>>9863765
>Pseudo
No
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpNcnM0FkTM

>> No.9865957

>>9865461
There is a difference between "vertebral subluxation" that you linked (which is the theory that undetectable misalignments in your spine cause a plethora of health issues) and subluxation in the literal sense.

In his videos it's pretty clear that he means subluxation in the literal sense, which simply means a misalignment. He is using xray images to find an observable misalignment and attempting to correct it.

>> No.9865963
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9865963

>>9865732
Well thats it, pack it up boys. One shitty youtube video with non existent methodology > decades of peer review research. Crawl back into your intellectual hole you call a mind you cretin.

>> No.9866029

>>9865457
Yoga, acupuncture, skinwalkers

>> No.9866056

>>9865662
I guarantee I could find examples of doctors that don't. If your chiropractor doesn't tell you the risks involved that is him being a bad person , not proof that the field as a whole is bullshit

>> No.9866060

>>9865963
>Here's a video showing each progression and efficacy of a chiropratic therapy on a severe case.
>B-but i can't recognize methodology and muh peer reviewed research

>The absolute state of /sci/

>> No.9866080
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9866080

>>9865034
>>9865035
>bollocks
Like the opinion of a bong holds any weight.

>> No.9866751

I had a chiropractor help realign areas near the psoas after I got injured and I've been better since, dunno what to tell you.

>> No.9866755

>>9866056
ive watched a LOT of chiro videos on youtube of actual patient sessions and i've attended three or four myself for several sessions. ive never seen them explain risk

>> No.9866790

>>9865035
>Indigo Children

?


Also,
>rumpology

HAHAHAHAHAHA

>> No.9866793

>>9866029
Oh dear...

>> No.9866802

>>9866751
I know what to tell you.

After any purported treatment, one of three things happens -- you feel worse, you feel the same, or you feel better. I am happy for you that you feel better, for whatever reason.

Your one case is not probative of anything because you can't know whether you have felt worse, the same or better without treatment, or with different treatment.

That's why Real Medicine looks at the outcomes of many cases, and uses things like double-blind studies, and in general tries to separate what really works for most people from what maybe worked once for one person.

There is not a Evile Conspiracy (tm) of doctors to hide that chiropractic medicine works -- if it worked, they'd teach it at medical schools and use it, the same way the use all the other medical techniques and technologies that work.

But the evidence indicates it does nothing, other than a good back rub feels good and can be relaxing, if no idjit tries to dislocate your vertebrae while larping as a doctor.

>> No.9866822

I know a chiropractor, do you guys want me to ask him things?

>> No.9866825

>>9864921
No one?

>> No.9866826

>>9863924
if it was legitimate medicine or therapy you would have to go to school for it

>> No.9866901
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9866901

>>9866826

>> No.9866905

>>9863765
Psuedo, but the placebo effect is very real, and often as effective as "legit" medication when it comes to minor things like back pain.

>> No.9866921

>>9866822
Nah, I'm good.

>> No.9867005

>>9866921
Why

>> No.9867025

it works i was skeptical for years if they give you exercises ans you stretch it can make a world of difference

>> No.9867320

>>9866060
Repeat the results a few thousand more times in double blind studies and propose a plausible mechanism of action otherwise you are no better than the idiots who think crystals have magical powers. It enrages me that someone so uneducated ostensibly can vote.

>> No.9867368

>>9863924
>>9864060
>>9864387
>>9864939
>>9865457
>>9865552
>>9866056
This is why /sci/, and all boards in fact, need ids

>> No.9868649

>>9867368
I'm not >>9865552 or >>9865457 but what is your point? I contributed my opinion multiple times within an ongoing discussion?

>> No.9868664

>>9866793
What's wrong with yoga?

>> No.9868676

>>9866802
>There is not a Evile Conspiracy (tm) of doctors to hide that chiropractic medicine works -- if it worked, they'd teach it at medical schools and use it, the same way the use all the other medical techniques and technologies that work.
Real doctors refer patients to chiropractors all the time. Why is it such a weird concept that physical adjustments can be more effective for certain issues that other methods?