>you will die not knowing exactly how an observer can collapse a wave function.

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Anonymous Sat Jun 23 18:10:04 2018 No.9827091 [Reply] [Original]

>you will die not knowing exactly how an observer can collapse a wave function.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 18:11:13 2018 No.9827093 It's just objectivation by the subject.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 18:12:48 2018 No.9827094 brainlet detected

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 18:42:26 2018 No.9827129 man i swear /sci/ are all fucking freshmen at best

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 18:53:16 2018 No.9827146 >>9827094 >>9827129 >Haha of course I know what happens yeah we believe you

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 19:01:31 2018 No.9827155 >>9827146 Its not that i dont, im a total retard in qm but man all of this kids are just whining about how they have low iq or whatever the fuck, just shut the fuck up and study for god sakes

Anonymous Sat Jun 23 19:22:22 2018 No.9827181

>>9827091
To observe something on the QM level, you (pretty much) have to have an interaction of some sort. Light has to bounce off the thing, the thing has to hit something, etc. That's what collapses the wave function, the interaction.

Why does it do that? I don't fucking know, I guess interactions have to happen with definite values for some observables or someshit like that.

Anonymous Sat Jun 23 19:31:52 2018 No.9827198
File: 25 KB, 514x497, light.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>9827091
""Wave functions"" [math]\Psi(\vec{x})[/math] are essentially meaningless; what really matters is normalized probability distribution [math]|\Psi(\vec{x})|^2[/math]. From this, it is evident that an observation of a given quantum mechanical event simply returns a value within the domain of the wave function, just as rolling a pair of dice returns a value within the domain of possible results.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 19:43:03 2018 No.9827213 File: 24 KB, 600x647, brainlet17.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9827091 By interacting with the particle in order to detect it. >whoa

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 19:50:57 2018 No.9827219 Not a science guy of any kind, but I thought light particles were enough to collapse it. It doesn't collapses because you're in the room, it collapses because you throw light at it in order to observe/measure it.

Anonymous Sat Jun 23 20:06:04 2018 No.9827244

>>9827091

Contrary to the standard model, space is NOT empty, therefore waves propagate through a medium. EM waves are made of subatomic particles similar to how our oceans are made of H2O but at a much smaller scale. A wave will collapse only when an external force acts upon it. The observer is not just observing. A sub-atomic plasma medium will self-propagate waves due to the inherent kinetic energy.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 20:27:39 2018 No.9827279 >>9827244 >Contrary to the standard model, and then he says some stuff that he can't back up with evidence, can't use to explain real phenomena and can't even formulate mathematically

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 20:51:37 2018 No.9827323 >>9827279 An EM wave can propagate over vast distances. It should be obvious that the observer is the cause of wave collapse. Occam's razor.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 20:54:15 2018 No.9827326 >>9827279 > can't back up with evidence Basic plasma physics at the subatomic scale.

Anonymous Sat Jun 23 21:16:36 2018 No.9827369

>>9827219
but then why do entangled particles react to measurements of the sister particle, across vast distances, and a few magnitudes faster then the speed of light.

>inb4 some pansy ass deflection about information not being exchanged, even though thats what is undeniably happening.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 21:47:03 2018 No.9827420 >>9827198 underrated

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 22:35:16 2018 No.9827470 >>9827279 Empty Space is NOT Empty https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3xLuZNKhlY

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 06:59:16 2018 No.9828105 >>9827091 It's not collapse, it's decoherence.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 07:07:06 2018 No.9828116 >>9827369 They don't, interaction happens at a point where you compare the results of measurements.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 07:20:04 2018 No.9828134 >>9827470 The gluon field is part of the standard model you blithering retard. >>9827326 >Basic plasma physics Name one prediction of plasma physics that's not covered by quantum fields.

Anonymous Sun Jun 24 08:14:18 2018 No.9828176

>>9827091
>you will die not knowing exactly what an observer even is.

truth is you can not have a fundamental theory of physics that has magical objects,called observers, that don't obey the laws of your theory. If observers are made up of quantum mechanical particals, that are governed by the deterministic wave equation then the observer and the quantum system he observes just form an even bigger quantum System that evolves perfectly determenistic.

But then where do the propabilities he measures even come from?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 08:58:01 2018 No.9828205 >>9827091 >observer It doesn't need to be observed by a human, to be "observed" is to crash into something else. Whether or not something really is there when you're looking is metaphysics and thus completely meaningless to talk about.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 09:00:41 2018 No.9828208 File: 596 KB, 2048x1152, aubreydegrey.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9827091 >you will di- blocks path

Anonymous Sun Jun 24 09:13:31 2018 No.9828226
File: 923 KB, 740x900, 1529841759264.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>You will die not knowing how something can come from nothing
>You will die not knowing if aliens exist
>You will die not knowing whether this is a real world or a simulation
>You will die not knowing what dark energy is

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 09:55:05 2018 No.9828257 >>9828208 based aubrey poster anti aging is best sort of escapism

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 10:13:58 2018 No.9828277 >>9827091 The eye/lens itself provides reflection of other picoscopic forces and thus causes interference to the attempted measurement.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 13:46:28 2018 No.9828552 >>9827369 flip a coin then split the coin in half. separate the two halves. until you look at either half, the probability it's heads/tails is 50/50. when you look at it, you know what the other half is. bam. spooky.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 13:53:32 2018 No.9828564 >>9828176 Even classic probability is not observable though.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 13:58:53 2018 No.9828571 >>9827091 >he thinks the wavefunction “””collapses””” reminder that MWI literally solves the observer effect with 0 effort

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 13:59:09 2018 No.9828572 >>9827244 >Contrary to the standard model, space is NOT empty >EM waves are made of subatomic particles this is literally wrong

Anonymous Sun Jun 24 14:02:46 2018 No.9828576

>>9828226
>You will die not knowing how something can come from nothing
Time-energy uncertainty principle
>You will die not knowing if aliens exist
they probably do, but we're probably never going to find out anyway
>You will die not knowing whether this is a real world or a simulation
what difference would it make to you, though? What's "real" anyway?
>You will die not knowing what dark energy is
Maybe. Maybe not.

Anonymous Sun Jun 24 14:12:42 2018 No.9828591

>>9827091
because there is a size limit to how small a particle can be (in 6 dimensions (3 spacial, 3 momentum))

it can be very small but must have a a very large momentum, or the other way round. It's not that you observe the particle and you figure out its position, it literally didn't have a definite position and occupied a large space. When you fire a photon at it you push it further into momentum dimension space and so it occupies less of the 'normal space'

in black holes, gravity gives the particles enough momentum and they all get pushed into momentum space when a star collapses

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 14:39:23 2018 No.9828651 >>9828552 Thats not even close to being the same effect.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 14:52:14 2018 No.9828670 >>9828651 Synchronize two clocks, now you know what the other clock shows, this knowledge travels in zero time no matter the distance. Spooky.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 14:57:14 2018 No.9828677 >>9828670 Thats not even close to being the same effect

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 15:07:31 2018 No.9828696 Isn't "making an observation" just the point where your brain becomes a part of the overall quantum system the comprises the experiment?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 15:12:35 2018 No.9828701 File: 347 KB, 1366x740, chopper.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9828696 >t. deepak

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 15:13:04 2018 No.9828703 >>9828670 >send one clock to andromeda at 80% light speed >clocks are now out of sync well, shit

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 15:23:09 2018 No.9828727 File: 209 KB, 2400x1260, daily_deepak_116.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9828696 >>9828701

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 15:29:40 2018 No.9828737 >>9828701 >like an open book of hope How does seeing some random gibberish that you only like because you can't understand it give you hope? Is it hope that there will always be people easy to con like this?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 15:30:53 2018 No.9828741 File: 38 KB, 640x480, med_1496346133_image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9827198 >four photon quantum dorifto

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 16:44:42 2018 No.9828840 >>9827091 you will die not knowing exactly how you died

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 17:19:48 2018 No.9828896 >>9828208 The documentary where he fucks a girl on the side of a highway did it for me

Anonymous Sun Jun 24 20:10:03 2018 No.9829214

>>9827091

look at a sine wave from the side. its a sine wave

look at that sine wave rotated 90 degrees across the z axis. its a line

measure the distances to the crests and troughs of a wave from obliquer and less oblique angles. the waves (troughs) disappear.

a tsunami seen head on is just a wall of water anon

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 20:11:07 2018 No.9829217 >>9827091 raed seege xxxxXXXXXX read flatland

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 05:07:18 2018 No.9829928 The observer and the wave function aren't things. Things don't exist.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 08:22:44 2018 No.9830089 >>9829928 Concept of things existing or not doesn't exist. If something is possible it's actualized, if something isn't it it's not.

Anonymous Mon Jun 25 08:59:55 2018 No.9830120

>>9827091
OP, even a brainlet can realise you're dumb as a rock.

Observation of particles is not passive. It's not the act of directing eyes/cameras at the particle that collapses the wave function.

It's the bombardment with other particles. They're needed to actually find the particle of interest, but upon the act of colliding them, they are modified (their wave collapses).

Think of a submerged submarine using sonar to find another submarine. It's active observation, and that activity creates interference in the original system.

Get it?

Anonymous Mon Jun 25 09:53:50 2018 No.9830153

>>9827091
It's just probability. Before you observe an object you have (almost) no interactions with it so the probability distributions for your state and the state of the object are uncoupled, and all you're working with is the marginal distribution (p(object|you) = p(object)), but once you interact with it the distributions for the object and you will not be independent and p(object|you) will differ from and have less entropy than p(object). So you collapse the configurations of the object to just those compatible with your current state by collapsing the space of outcomes to those containing your current state, and may theoretically reverse the collapse by averaging over all the possible configurations you may take,.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 11:25:47 2018 No.9830242 >>9828896 wat

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 11:56:39 2018 No.9830298 >>9827369 Perhaps higher dimensions are involved

Anonymous Mon Jun 25 12:11:01 2018 No.9830326

>>9827091
Read up on relative-state QM. I recommend the work of Zurek and Joos+Zeh to see why macroscopic superpositions don't occur. I also recommend reading some of Bohr's writing, he was quite interested in a concept he called "complementarity" and he was a wickedly smart fellow.

>>	Laozi Mon Jun 25 12:20:42 2018 No.9830349 >>9827091 I know how! by measuring the position of a particle.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 13:10:07 2018 No.9830464 >>9827155 Actually it is a fault of uni professors who arbitrarily extend the period of certification for our pre-described social value before we feel confident enough to share interpersonal opinions. Most math is about logistics.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 13:11:24 2018 No.9830466 >>9830349 You were too eager a student in every class Laozi. No wonder we gave time travelling to you, ya crazy gook. Teacher takes turn, you are not yet teacher for these sorts of lessons I give.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 13:52:33 2018 No.9830533 >>9828105 This

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 14:12:36 2018 No.9830562 >>9827091 Check out Pilot Wave Theory. No more metaphysics.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 14:18:39 2018 No.9830572 >>9827091 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7bzE1E5PMY

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 17:35:53 2018 No.9830926 File: 293 KB, 615x420, WFC.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9827091 This: Bayesian Interp of QM https://www.quantamagazine.org/quantum-bayesianism-explained-by-its-founder-20150604/

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 17:53:59 2018 No.9830960 >>9828896 Gonna need sauce there partner

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 00:52:27 2018 No.9831583 >>9830562 All kinds of theories could work, all as real as the others, as long as they're constrained by the appropriate ranges of probability.

Anonymous Tue Jun 26 02:03:50 2018 No.9831698

>>9830926

Why is all "bullshit" (metascience/pseudoscience/religion) articles always fat boomers trying to cover half of the article with their faces somewhere visible in the article?

Reeee

Look at IEEE engineering publications, 8+ pages and one little bio at the end of it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 02:07:39 2018 No.9831704 >>9827091 just throw a nuke at it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 02:20:58 2018 No.9831720 >>9830298 I get the feeling these "higher dimensions" might be relatable to the way video games generate a 3 dimensional space out of the material inherent within a microchip, which is what allows these events to break locality

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 02:24:53 2018 No.9831730 File: 47 KB, 577x575, 1519995690563.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >you will die

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 02:31:50 2018 No.9831743 File: 569 KB, 827x926, Supreme laughing libbie.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9831730 maybe you, faggot. I'm fucking invincible

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 06:56:29 2018 No.9832065 >>9827091 any interaction with the particle/wave will "collapse the wavefunction" you absolute brainlet

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 07:15:07 2018 No.9832097 >>9827091 I'd say the wave function's of each object tie into physical reality as a collective hallucination because of mass hypnosis.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 07:17:41 2018 No.9832103 >>9832097 But then again my IQ is 30

Anonymous Tue Jun 26 10:59:08 2018 No.9832407

>>9828105
>the only acceptable answer has only 1 post acknowledging it
>every other post in this thread is nonsense pseudoscience, misconceptions and wild speculation spouted by laypeople, and a failure to understand basic probability theory
Never change, /sci/.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 12:48:24 2018 No.9832568 >>9828651 2 tennis balls bump into each other. You know how fast they were going so when you look at one of them you immediately know how fast the other is going. That is all entanglement is.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 12:51:57 2018 No.9832573 >>9832568 Theres this thing called superposition you fucking retard.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 13:02:25 2018 No.9832584 >>9832573 Superposition is just a way of collecting a multitude of possibilities. You didnt make a point.

Anonymous Tue Jun 26 16:05:20 2018 No.9832846

Maybe someone can answer me on this:
Quantum particles seem to exist in a wave-form (i.e., their properties are probabilistic and undecided), only when they aren't interacting with something, correct?
Does this not seem like good evidence for a "simulated" universe? Computationally it would make sense to "cull" some data by not actually keeping up with each property of each particle when it has no bearing on anything else. So properties are assigned to particles only when convenient, and with only enough accuracy to keep the simulation from dissolving into chaos.

Is this a stupid idea? Has someone with credibility discussed this before?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 16:08:05 2018 No.9832850 >>9832568 But your analogy doesn't apply to the quantum level, right? Because a pair of quantum tennis balls wouldn't actually have determined momentum until observed, and yet somehow their is always conserved anyway

Anonymous Tue Jun 26 16:14:42 2018 No.9832861

>>9828552
Not accurate - in your example, the split coin you carry away is DECIDEDLY heads or tails, regardless of whether its been observed. In the quantum world, it is UNDECIDED if its heads or tails until you observe it. Therefore, observing it causes it to settle on heads or tails, and simultaneously the other coin decides it is the other option.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 20:50:02 2018 No.9833341 bump

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 21:01:11 2018 No.9833369 I've actually just completed a theory on an unorthodox new model of the universe that explains this but idk where to publish it

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 21:12:58 2018 No.9833396 >>9832407 Profabilty we call it

Anonymous Tue Jun 26 21:42:39 2018 No.9833454 [DELETED]

>>9832407
Prof.ability theory. Prof.seeability = possibility.. See the credential ability is Vinnie Paz's source = credibility. Mass hypnosis. Physical reality is a collective hallucination - Anil Seth Neuroscientist = cred. Wedding ring's might separate couple by only the size of a wedding ring, until they agree on the size and position of couch.. Get it, entanglement

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 21:55:42 2018 No.9833479 >>9832407 >>9833454 Wave function collapses when >>9827091 Wave funcyion should be able to collapse when someone argues with you about your exsistence qfter establishing an object together they take you off the object, or something like that

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 22:15:44 2018 No.9833508 >>9828552 >what is bell's theorem

Anonymous Tue Jun 26 22:22:32 2018 No.9833521
File: 7 KB, 228x221, images.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Should be pretty easy to visibly measure a photon in flight with a light streak camera, right? Wouldn't need to interact with the system to record the event :^)

y o u r
s p e c i e s
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/sci/ - Science & Math