Psychotherapy

[Anonymous No.9821744]

How can I objectively, scientifically measure how effective my psychotherapy treatment is?

How do I know that progress is being made due to my psychotherapy treatment?

My 7cupsoftea psychotherapist explained to me that progress is made by setting goals, such as, say, for example, getting a job.

One of my old psychotherapists once told me to go to her for a total of ten sessions (amounting to $1000) before coming to a decision as to whether or not I should continue seeing her for the full twenty-four sessions that was initially recommended to me. However, after the first two or three sessions I was starting to feel that she was not a very good psychotherapist. I stopped going to see her after the sixth session. I strongly felt that I was being ripped off and that she was fully aware that she was ripping me off.

So after which point should I drop a psychotherapist?

Would it be fair to drop a psychotherapist after only one session?

Is the effectiveness of psychotherapy purely subjective?

Are psychotherapists basically just faith healers?

Do psychotherapists take advantage of people who already have faith that psychotherapy will work?

Is psychotherapy just as effective as anything else that people have faith on, whether it be: psychotropic medication, homeopathy, prayer, witchcraft...?

What is the best kind of psychotherapy? Cognitive behavioral therapy? Psychodynamic therapy? Psychoanalytical therapy?

I once read that cognitive behavioral therapy is largely just one big scam, that it is only effective in the short term (about six months). While psychodynamic therapy is more effective in the long term. Is that true?

Do psychotherapists ever take advantage of certain patients such as, say, for example, schizoids? Because schizoids generally seem to be very submissive and therefore easily manipulated. So psychotherapists can just say whatever they want to schizoids and claim that it is all part of psychotherapy, when it is not.

[Anonymous No.9821748]

>>9821744
get a job hippie

[Anonymous No.9821850]

Holy shit. Psychology is pseudoscience bullshit anyway.

[Anonymous No.9821852]

>>9821744
talk to an economist.

[Anonymous No.9821917]

>>9821744
psychotherapy or psychiatry are the two main ways to deal with mental distress/disorders

i’d say it’s measurable by the same way psychiatry is

if your distress/disorder isn’t causing a daily hindrance then it is working/has worked

however, psychotherapy isn’t usually what solely solves major problems. speak to your psychotherapist or seek out a psychiatrist if your problems consist. a good psychotherapist should recommend you to one if they think medication will help (and they may be wrong by not sending you to one) gotta just exhaust your options until your issues are sorted out

[Anonymous No.9821922]

>>9821850
go shit up another board will you

stop spewing shit about what you don’t know

it shows everyone how much of a brainlet you are

[Anonymous No.9822504]

>>9821917

Yeah but how do I know if my psychotherapist is maybe not a very good psychotherapist and that maybe it is time to drop them?

I ask because one of my old psychotherapists did not seem to be very good at her job, but I kept going to see her for up to six sessions anyway. When I was still seeing her last year I was trying to tell some people online that she did not appear to be a good therapist and I would tell people why I felt that way, but they told me to keep seeing her and throwing my money away. I was supposed to keep seeing her for a total of twenty-four sessions. She has been ghosting me for about half a year now. So $600 went down the drain on a so-called “psychotherapy treatment” after which I do not feel any happier, wiser, stronger, smarter, less depressed, nor less anxious. So I’m just sitting here going, “um, okay. So what the hell was the point of all that?”

This whole situation has left me feeling incredibly bitter toward psychotherapy and has made me not want to look for a new psychotherapist if they can just ghost their patients like that. It all just seems so stupid and pointless, and like a complete and total waste of time and money. I feel ripped off.

[Anonymous No.9822505]

bump

[Anonymous No.9822514]

>>9821850
imagine unironically thinking this

[Anonymous No.9822570]

>>9821744
>How can I objectively, scientifically measure how effective my psychotherapy treatment is?
keep a fucking journal like they all probably tell you you should. rate your mood, willpower etc... on a scale, do daily or weekly
>How do I know that progress is being made due to my psychotherapy treatment?
milestones. recountering your trauma with new coping skills feeling better prepared. goals like you said

>So after which point should I drop a psychotherapist?
when ever you fucking want. if you aint jiving to their style then its gonna be difficult to see them as "on your side".
>Would it be fair to drop a psychotherapist after only one session?
yes
>Is the effectiveness of psychotherapy purely subjective?
most of the time yes. but remember progress is made through exposure, thats the real test, encountering your anxities with new tools to help you deal with them better. think the recovering alcoholic isnt truly recovered until they can refuse to drink when given the opportunity or justification
>Are psychotherapists basically just faith healers?
kind of, more like shamans becuase they need to "awaken" many different things within you. mainly self awareness and self confidence.
.
cont...

[Anonymous No.9822574]

cont...

>Do psychotherapists take advantage of people who already have faith that psychotherapy will work?
some of them might.
>Is psychotherapy just as effective as anything else that people have faith on, whether it be: psychotropic medication, homeopathy, prayer, witchcraft...?
psycotrpic meds always, always work better when paired with therapy.
>What is the best kind of psychotherapy? Cognitive behavioral therapy? Psychodynamic therapy? Psychoanalytical therapy?
like all things in medicine the motto is "whatever works". cbt, and dbt to have better short term applications than psychoanalytic or psychodynamic.
that doesnt mean its a scam. you just have worksheets for homework rather than keeping a dream journal. cbt is really teaching you a bunch of metacognitive skills. psycho analytic and psycho dynamic is like telling an author yourlife story, and them doing a sort of critique or explacation on it.
>Do psychotherapists ever take advantage of certain patients such as, say, for example, schizoids? Because schizoids generally seem to be very submissive and therefore easily manipulated. So psychotherapists can just say whatever they want to schizoids and claim that it is all part of psychotherapy, when it is not.
anyone dispencing therapy thats not faith based is or should be licenced by the state to perform therapy. which hold a bunch of guidelines and ethics. most serious mental illness like the schizoform disorders are moving towrds a peer supported or group model. a shrink who has expierence treating paranoia knows that these are real concerns for their patients and should be able to address them

[Anonymous No.9822582]

>>9821917

>i’d say it’s measurable by the same way psychiatry is

With psychiatry I have noticed scientifically and objectively immediate and beneficial effects from the psychotropic medication that they offer. For example, I am currently being prescribed Adderall XR at 60 mg daily (highest recommended dose) and I take it in the mornings and WOW! do I notice some very obvious physical effects. It is not quite the same with psychotherapy, it seems. Nothing in psychotherapy (I have already seen and spoken with five different psychotherapists and paid them hundreds upon hundreds of dollars) has made me go WOW! Nothing out of psychotherapy has been mind-blowing, life-changing, earth-shattering. Which I think is kind of funny because psychiatrists seem to get a lot more hate than psychotherapists and psychologists. But at least what psychiatrists offer is something very real.

[cr0na No.9822612]

I'm a psychologist, I'm a behavioral analyst.

On how to tell if a psychotherapy works, I suggest you visit the APA website, there you will find indications of evidence-based psychotherapies that have true efficiency for each clinical condition. See what I have said for each clinical condition because the therapeutic approach depends on the condition you are presenting. For example, people with anxiety disorders are more likely to benefit from behavioral therapy, so people with personality disorders benefit better from psychodynamic therapies.

In summary, talk frankly with your therapist and report those questions you posted here.

[Anonymous No.9822623]

>>9822582
most of those breakthroughs in therapy are done yourself, the therapist just tries to guide you to them.
many therapists dont really spell it all out for you, as that can lead to many faulty assumptions and cause progress to divert or backtrack.

[Anonymous No.9822627]

>>9822582
also drug work imnediatly but you have to maintain a schedule.
they also may loose effectiveness for whatever reason.
therapy takes time through slowly getting at the root, pruning bad neural pathways and trying to build good ones, which takes more time, but once praxis has been achieved is easier to maintain.
so its a trade off.
also why its good to pair pharm with therapy.
long term use of many psychpharms will fuck up your liver kidney and possibly endocrine etc...

[Anonymous No.9823019]

>>9821744
do the becks depression inventory every 2-6 months and see if your score improves. if it doesn't consult your therapist

[Anonymous No.9823032]

its an illusion but you still need a smart person to guide you obv

[Anonymous No.9823036]

>>9822514
it is, perspectives are objectively subjective. biggest looophole in history until we understand the mind

[Anonymous No.9823361]

>>9821744
Our societies preach defeatism while our environment is completely artifical and our diet consists of trash.
Are you unironically surprised about mental disorders booming?

[Anonymous No.9823365]

>>9821744
Our societies preach defeatism while our environment is completely artifical and our diet consists of trash.
Are you unironically surprised about mental disorders booming?


Also let me tell you the secret of fixing your condition without drugs - live, behave, eat like your ancestors, you stupid faggot

[Anonymous No.9823454]

I think of psychologists (in the context of counsellors/therapists) as people who are trained to be a pseudo-good friend with some degree of wisdom that you can talk to about personal stuff. A therapist won't solve issues for you unless you've got some fucked up brain chemistry that they can give you drugs for. A therapist will, however, help you to solve the issues for yourself. For many people, it is incredibly difficult to solve issues on their own in a healthy way without anyone to measure their progress or give them feedback and positive reinforcement.

I guess you could sum them up as people who are paid to facilitate the construction of your personal philosophical framework when you are void of any philosophical grounding or your life philosophy is flawed. To some extent I suppose it is reliant on the amount of faith and trust you have in psychotherapy as a discipline.

[Anonymous No.9824132]

>>9823036
>thinking psychology is perspectives

Psychology follows the scientific method dumbass.

inb4 wELL tHIs sTuDY WaS SubJective/nOn-rEpliCaBlE

[Anonymous No.9824408]

>op writes a lot of words, usually pseudoscientific
>op is addicted & dependant to Adderall

every time

[Anonymous No.9824430]

>>9821744
Psych degree here (yeah yeah I know) I can't answer all your questions cause I'm mobile-posting from the loo, but having goals is a good example of measuring progress although it's not definitive proof that the therapy works more than a placebo. If you have a strong phobia of public speaking and it'snegatively affecting your career, then therapy can help with that. Progress will be measured by the amount of anxiety you feel when/if you speak publicly. If you can find another form of therapy to help you with a phobia then that's great but seeing a professional who understands how the brain works would be better than hoping you choose the right placebo effect.
Once you get into the severe disorder like you're hearing voices from the devil, then the absence of those voices after drugs/therapy would be a clear indication that you made progress, wouldn't it?

That being said, psychoanalysis is COMPLETE bullshit and should be avoided at all costs. People who go to psychotherapy have the same rate of progress as people who get NO THERAPY AT ALL. Spontaneous remission. CBT is the most scientific approach to therapy because it deals with the proven functions of the brain, like how you respond to certain stimuli. I'd look into that if your problems aren't too servere.

[Anonymous No.9825053]

I'm fairly sure that the reason why psychotherapy is a thing is because when regular people have problems, they tend to keep it inside them or lie about them and thus the problems they have build up. One of the biggest ways for humans to really have a healthy state of mind is to be open and be communicative about how you feel and what's going on in your life. Therapy is one way to do this: You have someone to talk to that you won't deal with except during this small time frame that is private, ensuring you can speak openly and without fear of aggressive criticism. Not only that, but as humans it is difficult for us to see things from other perspectives. This is one reason why open communication is good: It allows for multiple perspectives on problems or aspects of one's life and thus for solution a one might not have thought of prior. This could potentially end lies, suffering, or any other kind of issue that stems from relationships with other people or the stress of daily life.

Therapy "works", but only for people who are unable to be communicative normally. I would imagine the goal of therapy is to get people to be more communicative or to just make money off of people who never will end up being so.

tl;dr Therapy is just someone listening to another person talk openly and then giving regular advice, which tends to lead to healthy lifestyle changes.

[Anonymous No.9825624]

>>9822574

I ask about this because one of my old psychotherapists did not seem to be very good at her job. In fact, I got the strong feeling that I was being scammed out of my money.

On my first session with her she seemed quirky, quick-witted, and even came off as mildly immature. She interrupted me several times by saying what she assumed I was about to say. After she interrupted me for about the fifth or sixth time, she started laughing.

During the second session she seemed like an almost completely different person. Her appearance was radically different, like she was trying to pull of a "mature" or even "wise" look. She also came off as slightly bitchy. She seemed mostly bored or even annoyed as she kept sighing a lot throughout the session. At some point I started talking about something that I felt was relevant in regards to my family, like how they seem largely anti-science because whenever I start talking to them about science-related topics (whether they be about: genetics, neurology, mental illness, astronomy, etc.) they tend to get unusually defensive and start talking about God like how I was somehow offending him.

At that point she then cut me off and said something like: "Right. Science. You're really big on science. You're Mr. Science Man."

That was just so weird and random, I just responded with: "Uhhh... yeah." And I didn't bother finishing the point that I was trying to make. I remember thinking to myself: "The hell was that about? That was kind of bitchy. Did she do that on purpose? Is she testing me somehow? Or maybe she's just religious and she felt offended. This might get awkward. I'm not exactly sure how this is supposed to help me overcome social anxiety."

In the third session I could swear that she must've been high as fuck on Adderall.

I felt like I should have dropped her after the first two or three sessions, but I kept going to see her for a total of six sessions (amounting to $600 being paid to her corporation).

[Anonymous No.9825656]

>>9824408
How is he addicted if he was prescribed this medicine by a psychiatrist? Do you think they hand out pills to addicts ore are incapable of recognizing when a drug is not suitable for a patient? You are making a lot of assumptions here about the competence of these doctors.

[Anonymous No.9825660]

>>9824408
If he is on the maximum daily dose that means the lower doses weren't working for him so they increased it in stages, gradually. When you are on a high dose of a psychiatric medicine and its correcting your problems, when they stop giving you that medicine your original condition returns, that means the medicine was treating it. It doesn't mean he's addicted.

Drug addiction in this setting (mental health patients) is poorly studied at worst and rare most of the time.

They do drug tests and screenings to make sure patients aren't using illegal drugs too so there should be no problem.

[Anonymous No.9825662]

>>9825656
>How is he addicted if he was prescribed this medicine by a psychiatrist?
you must actually be fucking retarded

[Anonymous No.9825781]

Oh, man. I just received an e-mail telling me of the price of a psychological evaluation that I was going to receive this coming Wednesday. $4,000. What the hell? That’s enough for like 40 sessions (40 hours) of psychotherapy right there! And the evaluation itself is only 4 hours long! So that’s like $1,000 per hour!

And last year I was asking around about getting myself evaluated for autism as an adult and was told that the price would be $5,200!

What the fuck! I don’t even have any medical insurance.

What could these so-called “evaluations” possibly entail to cost so damn much?

Back in 2016 I was administered a psychological evaluation by an actual psychologist and he only charged me $700. He then wrote for me a psychological evaluation report which serves no practical use to me because nobody seems to care or believe anything that was written on it. I was kind of hoping that I’d be able to get on disability with that report considering that my official diagnosis is MDD, SAD, and GAD but the psychologist who wrote for me the report has been ignoring all of my phone calls and e-mails for over a year. I got ripped off pretty damn hard.

[Anonymous No.9825789]

>>9824132
How can it be following the scientific method if the studies are non replicable?

[Anonymous No.9825790]

>>9825660
>Uses amphetamines daily
>Not addicted
Pick one

[Anonymous No.9826028]

>>9824430
This guy was supposed to brake his back in the vid.
Wtf dude ?

[Anonymous No.9826034]

>>9824430
This guy was supposed to brake his back in the vid.
Wtf dude ?

>>9825781
Smth not right. You gonna pay that?

[Anonymous No.9826065]

You can't, psychology, and psychoanalisis in particular deal with things that are too subtle for science to measure. Cognitive shit and psychiatry measure how well you adapt as an individual , thats why they will meme you with "goals" and shit. But you can work perfectly fine in society and still be extremely miserable.
We are very far from having any reliable way of "measuring" what happyness is and a lot of experiences show that people often do not seek to be happy at all.
That means that any therapy requires you to actively work with it and think about what you want, to be responsible, to decide and apply critical thinking to your own life. One of your problems is that you expect someone to come and magically fix your mental problem, and expecting magical solutions is one of the most basic mental problems you can have. Crying for such a silly thing as "objectively effective therapy" is a terrible symptom you should realize how much youre hurting yourself by insisting on thinking like a 10 year old child.
Also money and time are one of the best excuses to avoid therapy, and many people will want to avoid it. because if its done correctly it will always be hard, and you will learn a lot of things about yourself that you've been trying to avoid, the willingness to avoid simple truths about yourself is called "resistance" in classical psychoanalitic theory and people have gone to great lenghts for this.
Yes psychoanalisis is subjective in the way you think about it, but so are love and happynes and you wouldnt want to live without them. Ultimately its your decision to make, and thats what makes people afraid of it.
Psychoanalisis is not a hard science and will never be, you can't measure it, or write peer reviewed papers about it, it just doesnt work like that.
Its also not a magic pill, and it also requires you to put in work. Many people go get therapy just so they can claim it doesnt work.
(cont)

[Anonymous No.9826072]

>>9826065
(cont)
cognitive stuff is not a meme but it will not help you in the sense that it attacks the symptom and tries to make you a functional citizen, not a happy one.
Psychoanalisis is the best way to find out the root causes of what is really making you anxious and come to terms with it, it is the most honest of all therapies in the sense that you will really get to what really makes you do stuff.
It can get really weird, really fast, and many times you WILL NOT LIKE the things the therapist says to you, but when you consider it carefuly, youll realize hes right most of the time.
Again, it gets really weird and uncomfortable very fast, you must be ready to be honest with yourself, the basis for psychoanalisis is the idea of the subconcious, which basically means theres a BIG part of you over which you have no direct control, and almost no control of any kind.
Yes, its expensive as fuck, but thats mainly because a good psychoanalists has to spend 90% of his time reading, going to conferences and debating his cases with his peers, its very time consuming.
My personal recomendation is to look for someone who listens a lot before daring to give his opinion.

t. someone who has undergone psychoanalisis, who knows LOTS of people who has undergone behavioural therapy and psychiatry

[Anonymous No.9826076]

>>9821917
>if your distress/disorder isn’t causing a daily hindrance then it is working/has worked
This is the greatest problem with american thinking: "If society thinks youre doing ok then you have no reason to worry about... *shoots up a school"

[Anonymous No.9826104]

>>9824430
>That being said, psychoanalysis is COMPLETE bullshit and should be avoided at all costs. People who go to psychotherapy have the same rate of progress as people who get NO THERAPY AT ALL. Spontaneous remission. CBT is the most scientific approach to therapy because it deals with the proven functions of the brain, like how you respond to certain stimuli. I'd look into that if your problems aren't too servere.

That is because psychoanalisis deals with real problems. Cognitive shit just adresses specific symptoms.

For example, if youre underperforming at your job, cognitive therapy will make you be good at your job even if youre miserable with it and thats the end of it.
Psychoanalisis can make you realize you hate your job, and make you change careers or stop working all together.
Its the difference between seeing a person as an individual or as a cog in the machine.

[Anonymous No.9826163]

>>9826065
> But you can work perfectly fine in society and still be extremely miserable

theres a difference between doing what makes you happy.
and what you THINK you should do to make you happy based off of everyone else.

this is often a huge roadblock for people and why they often have to go back to therapy, becuase they realized that the goals they originally had were makeing others more happy than they were.
for mom
for dad
for spouse
for family
for co-workers
for friends
for that chick you've wanted to ask out for over a year now.

people often don't know what happiness is, becuase they have left behind being a child so much.

>Also money and time are one of the best excuses to avoid therapy,
theres tons,TONS of resources availble, for free, online, or in the form of warm lines or hot lines.

people just need some sort of authoritarian figure to help them guide them or tell them what they need to do.

[Anonymous No.9826205]

>>9826163
>people often don't know what happiness is, becuase they have left behind being a child so much.
the mere concept of happiness is a simplification, it does not exist in the way americans pretend. simple binary yes no feeling. it is orders of magnitude more complex

>>9826163
>TONS of resources availble,
no, therapy is not something automated much less self learned, it is highly specific to each individual and as such requires a very educated therapist which is completely unrelated to the person in an emotional way

[Anonymous No.9826412]

>>9826205
> therapy is not something automated much less self learned

funny thing is catharsis, praxsis. is all self learned, unless your therapist actively is holding your hand along the way. and it is automated in a way.
its just people don't want to waste that much time, waiting for your mind to achieve catharsis on its own.


they are guides that show you the door,
show you the tools
ask you what you really want.

the therapist is just a friendly wall you bounce stuff off of.
if you know whats wrong you can absolutely be your own therapist.

journaling, and the whole self-improvement movement is a testament to this.

[Anonymous No.9826423]

>>9826412
I cant argue with what youre saying since i disagree with it on all of the basic premises you said. But i guess it is a matter complex enough that multiple opinions are not a bad thing

[Anonymous No.9826424]

What's more annoying is there's no research on how to taper down / quit amphetamine

[Anonymous No.9826428]

>>9825624
She has an inferiority complex Vs psychiatrists

[Anonymous No.9826430]

>>9825656
Are you American?

[Anonymous No.9826435]

>>9826424
but theres considerable progress on how to down a tupper filled with amphetamines

[Anonymous No.9826445]

>>9826435
Down a what?

But yeah the only research I can find is on recovering meth addicts

[Anonymous No.9826449]

>>9821744
Not science or math.

[Anonymous No.9826456]

>>9824132
Yeah, we can Ignore that half of the field is a fraud and was found non replicable because you posted inb4, good job anon

[Anonymous No.9826668]

Make 2 big ass groups of people with same problem
Give one treatment
Don't give the other the treatment
Obviously it's impossible to blind this study

[Anonymous No.9826676]

>>9824408
Good for him. Amphetamines are based. I have ADHD and they changed my life. I used to take them daily and I became some kind of hypomaniac, it was fucking awesome. Now I only take it when I need to study hard for tests, I do this in order to get a stronger effect.

Amphetamines are fucking based, best drug ever created

[Anonymous No.9826766]

>>9826424
look up anti psychiatry movement

icarus project has a manual on stopping psych meds.

>>9826445
that research is directly applicable

[Anonymous No.9827076]

>>9826065

>Crying for such a silly thing as "objectively effective therapy" is a terrible symptom

See my posts here:

>>9825624
>>9825781
>>9822582
>>9822504
>>9821744

I have already seen and spoken to five different psychotherapists, two of which disappointed me with their immature, unprofessional, and inappropriate behavior. I could go on for up to twenty posts or more describing their unusual and inappropriate behavior. In fact, I have already filed a complaint against one of my psychotherapists for sexual misconduct as recommended here:

http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/proftherapy.shtml

The main reason that I started this thread is because I have been disappointed by the unethical behavior that I have already observed from two psychotherapists, and I want to make absolutely certain that my next psychotherapist is an *ethical* and damn *good* psychotherapist who genuinely has my best interests in mind, and could not care less about how much profit they can make off of me.

[Anonymous No.9827659]

>>9825053
Is what Bill taught at AA.

[Anonymous No.9828836]

I guess I must have spent way too much time on /sci/, but I can no longer take seriously anything related to: psychology, psychiatry, psychotherapy, psychoanalysis, psychodynamic therapy, and/or anything else used within the mental health care anymore. It all just seems so subjective, pseudoscientific, stupid, pointless, and scammy. And since I do not have any medical insurance, I really do not have the money to be going around looking for the “right” therapist... which could take months or even years. And then several months into psychotherapy and thousands of dollars later, I bet that I would find myself no more happier, wiser, smarter, stronger, less depressed, or less anxious. I have already seen and spoken to:five different psychotherapists, four psychiatrists, one psychologist, two psychiatric nurse practitioners, two neurologists, and spent hundreds upon hundreds or even thousands upon thousands of dollars with no end in sight. And all of that without mentioning the four different antidepressants, one anti-anxiety agent, one anticonvulsant, one antipsychotic, one psychostimulant, and one sedative that I have already been prescribed and taken. And I still don’t really feel much better. At this point I think that I would have much better luck seeing a babalawo, seeing as to all the other stuff seems about as equally “scientific” as Santeria.

[Anonymous No.9829517]

I feel like OP is a women

[Anonymous No.9829526]

>>9821744
It only helps if you actually have a problem. Being a dick isn't a mental illness.

[Anonymous No.9829561]

How can therapists ever be useful if they are legally obligated to divulge what you tell them? Or is that just an American thing?

[Anonymous No.9829713]

>>9826065

>Crying for such a silly thing as "objectively effective therapy" is a terrible symptom you should realize how much youre hurting yourself by insisting on thinking like a 10 year old child.
Also money and time are one of the best excuses to avoid therapy

I love this sort of logic. “You voluntarily decided to seek professional help out of the mental health care system, therefore you have no right to question about whether or not your money is being put to good use! Stop whining like a child about ethics and just give those people all of your money already!”

[Anonymous No.9829737]

>>9828836
wait until you drop the real red pill and realize the entire medical profession is still stuck in the victorian era. only decent fields are physically involved e.g surgery, orthopedics. all drugs are an attempt at treating a disease not properly understood and actually usually cause more harm than good.

[Anonymous No.9829748]

>>9825624
she was addressing the superiority complex related to thinking you know a lot about science when in reality she felt like you were not as smart as you think that you are and this is causing you anxiety

she seems to be smarter than you, but still not worth 100 a session. this is why you never see a shrink and should treat yourself, or get it paid for by guvment

[Anonymous No.9829759]

>>9821744
>How can I objectively, scientifically measure how effective my psychotherapy treatment is?

if you had taken a baseline before treatment, there are a number of tests and indicators that would have allowed you a degree of objectivity

>My 7cupsoftea psychotherapist explained to me that progress is made by setting goals, such as, say, for example, getting a job.

Not really. depending on the diagnosis, that can be a strong indicator of change, but it's not a reliable metric.

>So after which point should I drop a psychotherapist?

When they refuse to do things like establish baselines and gather what few metrics they can

>Is the effectiveness of psychotherapy purely subjective?

Not if done properly, on what it can treat. it doesn't work for everything. An honest therapist would have told you this.


>Are psychotherapists basically just faith healers?

Many are.

>Is psychotherapy just as effective as anything else that people have faith on, whether it be: psychotropic medication, homeopathy, prayer, witchcraft...?

Psychotropic medication, including certain hallucinogenics, is significantly more effective than almost everything else, when prescribed and used properly.

>Cognitive behavioral therapy? Psychodynamic therapy? Psychoanalytical therapy?

For all - nobody really knows. Meta studies have been published on all showing efficacy, all have met criticism. there are certain cases where each seems to be extremely effective.

also separating psychodynamic and psychoanalytical really isn't appropriate.

>Because schizoids generally seem to be very submissive and therefore easily manipulated.

Exactly the opposite. Schizoids can be extremely resistant to therapy and manipulation. many can also become unstable under medication if they aren't properly diagnosed. one of the most difficult spectrum of conditions to address.

[Anonymous No.9830606]

>>9829759

>Exactly the opposite. Schizoids can be extremely resistant to therapy and manipulation. many can also become unstable under medication if they aren't properly diagnosed. one of the most difficult spectrum of conditions to address.

Aren’t schizoids extremely passive? Especially depressive schizoids? They seem to be the most passive out of all of the other personality disorders like the narcissists, sociopaths, borderlines, paranoiacs, and schizotypals. The other personality disorders seem incredibly difficult to treat by comparison.

What about aspies and other autistic people? Are they not also extremely passive and easily manipulated? Autistic adults are almost like obedient children, in a way.

[Anonymous No.9830965]

Holy shit you people are so easily manipulated, Jesus Christ.

[Anonymous No.9830979]

>>9829748
Where are you getting any of this from? He didn't say any of that. Never was it implied that he thought he knew more about science than he does, nor that the therapist knows more about scientific topics than he does. Only that being a curious, smart person with a family of anti-intellectual religious imbeciles is both frustrating and isolating. You are extremely dumb and you should never post again about anything, let alone to give advice or insight.

[Anonymous No.9831036]

>>9826072
You drank all the fucking kool-aid.

[Anonymous No.9832029]

>>9826766
thanks for the info, though unfortunately i find no quantitative data there.

[Anonymous No.9833383]

I’m guessing that all of the people defending psychotherapy are mainly doing so out of guilt in throwing their money away to a bunch of charlatans. And because they’ve been heavily brainwashed into aggressively defending them.

A witch doctor, exorcist, guru, or Scientologist would be equally helpful, I’d bet.

That reminds me, I need to get my Thetans looked at. And my chakras re-aligned.

[Anonymous No.9833958]

>>9821744
>How can I objectively, scientifically measure how effective my psychotherapy treatment is?
>
You can't, at least not objectively.
>My 7cupsoftea psychotherapist explained to me that progress is made by setting goals, such as, say, for example, getting a job.
>
This is true.
>Would it be fair to drop a psychotherapist after only one session?
>
If the chemistry is wrong, then this is ok. You need to be comfortable with each other.
>Is the effectiveness of psychotherapy purely subjective?
>
Yes.
>Are psychotherapists basically just faith healers?
>
In a way. If you don't want help, it won't help. You need to believe that he/she can help you.
>Do psychotherapists ever take advantage of certain patients such as, say, for example, schizoids? Because schizoids generally seem to be very submissive and therefore easily manipulated. So psychotherapists can just say whatever they want to schizoids and claim that it is all part of psychotherapy, when it is not.
I think not. But they may use them to get better at psychotherapizing.

[Anonymous No.9833961]

>>9821744
>falling for the psychojùdaism meme

[Anonymous No.9835094]

>>9833958

>This is true.

So if I were to set a goal for myself in psychotherapy such as, say, for example, getting a job... how many sessions of psychotherapy should I go to before realizing that no progress is being made? Who would be to blame if after two or three sessions I still don’t have a job? Myself? Or my psychotherapist? Or both? Or neither? If after two or three sessions I still don’t have a job... would it be fair to say that my psychotherapist is not a very good psychotherapist and that it is time to drop them?

If it were not fair to blame my psychotherapist for being unable to get a job after two or three sessions, at which point would it be fair to blame them? Four sessions? Eight? Ten? Sixteen? Twenty-four? Thirty-two?

And if my psychotherapist is never to be blamed for me making no progress in psychotherapy, then who is? Myself? What, exactly, is wrong with me if I am unable to make progress in psychotherapy? Should the psychotherapist not be able to identify what my problem is and help me work through it?

If I have zero faith in psychotherapy, but I believe in science... would it be possible for me to develop faith in psychotherapy, or will I forever be doomed in this limbo in which no amount of psychotherapy and/or psychotropic medication will ever help me?

If I am feeling extremely desperate to change myself for the better, how can I force myself to develop faith in psychotherapy? How can I look at psychotherapy from a scientific perspective and see the scientific benefits that I could get out of it?

And what if my psychotherapist no longer wants to see me anymore? What if I only went to see her for six sessions when it had been initially recommended to me that I see her for twenty-four sessions, and she has been ignoring all of my phone calls and e-mails for nearly half a year? And she has threatened to take legal actions against me if I do not stop trying to contact her?