/sci/ - Science & Math

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Anonymous Mon Jun 18 17:06:51 2018 No.9817309 [Reply] [Original]

How does /sci/ feel about the cost of attending college in the US? Is accruing $40k-$60k in debt worth acquiring a degree in the current job market, even if it's in a STEM field? What are your thoughts on the student loan epidemic? Are college students simply complaining about nothing, or is this a legitimate issue that will produce real-world economic consequences?

Anonymous Mon Jun 18 17:20:32 2018 No.9817336

>>9817309
The student loan situation in the States is so vicious it's a joke from the outside, but there are a lot of social choices that make it even worse.

There's extremely minimal parental support in the US compared to basically anywhere else in the world, many people double their debt by moving to places they don't need to move to (partially because you're socially expected to get the fuck out of your home at this point), young fuckheads away from home for the first time often mismanage their money horribly, many don't make an attempt to find work, etc.

I live in Canada and my bachelor's cost me about 20K but between remaining at home and working part-time I had no debt upon graduation.

Anonymous Mon Jun 18 17:43:01 2018 No.9817383

>>9817336
100% agree. The higher education system in the US essentially leaves college graduates in a state of economic desperation.

I cannot tell you how many times I've heard of graduates, even those with "high-paying" degrees in STEM fields, being forced to work at shitty fast food restaurants because they simply cannot find jobs in their fields without years of experience. Couple this with monthly student loan payments that must be made and various other expenses (car payments, potentially having a child, etc.), and you have yourself a poor and economically destitute generation.

We make fun of young people quite a lot, but this is genuinely sad. It's heartbreaking to watch people attend college with hope of improving their lives only to come out of the situation worse than they were to begin with.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 18 17:46:08 2018 No.9817390 State schools are almost always much cheaper...don't look at the sticker price for scam private schools. Unless it's something like Harvard vs. State, state is always better.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 18 17:47:01 2018 No.9817392 >>9817390 They're still expensive to low-income students. You have to keep in mind that even $10,000 is still quite a lot of money to somebody who grew up in the lower/lower-middle class.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 18 17:56:21 2018 No.9817411 >>9817383 > but this is genuinely sad https://www.bustle.com/p/ive-paid-18000-to-a-24000-student-loan-i-still-owe-24000-9000788 The girl is basically hoping she can start living her life by the time she is 40. Quite sad honestly

Anonymous Mon Jun 18 18:06:01 2018 No.9817433
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>>9817309
I wouldn't know since Georgia will pay for your tuition and give you money for books and living expenses as long as you're a resident with a 3.8 and a decent SAT. Hell even if you only have a 3.0 they will pay for a good chunk of the tuition if not all of it depending on the school.

All payed for by the lottery too. No extra taxes.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 03:23:36 2018 No.9818195 >>9817309 >complaining about nothing $40k-$60k debt is not "nothing", fgt pls

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 04:03:19 2018 No.9818241 >>9817309 I would not sign a contract that asked me to pay a loan I didn’t think I could afford, therefore no college yet for me

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 04:48:22 2018 No.9818287 File: 459 KB, 657x601, why does everyone hate us so much.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9817336 >Millennial wants to live with his parents

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 05:04:14 2018 No.9818297 >>9818287 that image makes me cringe

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 05:38:28 2018 No.9818326 note that millennial cannot keep being extended to the point of absurdity like this millennial: person who came of age during the turn of the millennium. 1979 - 1994 Not 1980 - 2000, 1990 - 2010 etc

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 05:46:42 2018 No.9818339 File: 157 KB, 1200x1156, de08b16bf129fb9ccf168e0857b6ca58_-sneaky-jew-frog-meme-jew-meme-4chan_1200-1156.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >b-but free market fix everything

Anonymous Tue Jun 19 05:58:54 2018 No.9818356

>>9818339

The joke no one wants to acknowledge is that there is not enough high paying jobs for everyone with a degree, trade certification or military experience. Meaning that no matter how educated or experience you make a population the majority will always be in the middle or bottom of the economy.

Even if you killed the bottom 95% of the U.S. population there still wouldn't be enough high paying jobs. The debt being pushed onto people for the sake of a better career is a fools errand and a cruel joke to play on the masses.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 06:04:00 2018 No.9818365 >>9818297 why

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 06:05:47 2018 No.9818369 >>9818356 dafuk is this nigga saying?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 06:17:48 2018 No.9818387 >>9817309 It gives me endless entertainment as Americans proudly proclaim their superiority in all things while objectively being the shittiest place to live in the western world unless you are ludicrously wealthy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 06:25:28 2018 No.9818392 60k is two years of savings on a shitty job with an engineering degree, so no, it's not too much if you know you won't drop out. Tards think it's worth it to spend 60k on polsci or psychology degrees though, and they're in deep shit then

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 06:33:50 2018 No.9818398 >>9818387 Bruh all you need is like 3mil net worth and you’re set for life.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 06:39:56 2018 No.9818408 >>9818387 propaganda and media image is strong

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 06:41:29 2018 No.9818412 >>9818392 psychology is a fine choice if you're actually going to follow it through but it's one of those degrees that's close to worthless unless you go to grad school

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 14:58:35 2018 No.9819036 >>9817390 Harvard or Standford or pretty much any elite private school will pay your tuition unless your parents are really rich, getting accepted into one of those places is a full ride.

Anonymous Tue Jun 19 15:12:42 2018 No.9819056

>>9819036
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/harvard-university
You can look at statistics for different Ivy League institutions and notice the paltry amount of low income students. This puts the meritocracy narrative into the ground unless you're also arguing kids of rich people are better.

Anonymous Tue Jun 19 15:32:17 2018 No.9819083

>>9817411
Sheeeiittt that sucks. However, she never said what she majored in nor what she went to grad school for unless I missed it. Also, I don't think she mentioned the private schools she attended. I can understand taking out loans for an Ivy League given that you major in something useful, but if it's just a regular old private uni she should have just gone to a state school.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 15:39:49 2018 No.9819097 >>9817309 It is a money making scheme, nothing more. Don't do it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 15:46:35 2018 No.9819105 >>9817411 this is why usury is a sin desú

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 16:05:07 2018 No.9819131 >>9819056 >unless you're also arguing kids of rich people are better. of course they are m8

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 16:13:04 2018 No.9819151 >>9818387 So my life would've been better in Haiti...

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 16:43:54 2018 No.9819204 >>9817411 Maybe that’ll teach her not to take out loans at 9 fucking percent interest. Probably not though. She sounds retarded.

>>	OP Tue Jun 19 16:45:51 2018 No.9819208 >>9819204 >I got lucky with my college education Alright, capitalist elitist.

Anonymous Tue Jun 19 17:00:06 2018 No.9819224

> Is accruing $40k-$60k in debt worth acquiring a degree in the current job market, even if it's in a STEM field?
Only if you have some clue of what you are going to do with it. If you're only going to college because mommy and daddy want you to: get a job at Walmart and get a clue about your life.

Anonymous Tue Jun 19 17:02:04 2018 No.9819226

>>9819204
Read the article again and I really have to reiterate that I have no sympathy for this dumb whore. She was provided instructions to guide her through the payment process, and she ignored them. She violated one of the main tennets of financial management by taking out multiple consecutive loans, then she assumes her ignorance was warranted because nobody warned her that she was making an incredibly obvious mistake. The price she has to pay is insane, but she brought most of it on herself.

Brandon !!tbkOPmI7bEB Tue Jun 19 17:04:29 2018 No.9819231

>>9819226
But that's a legitimate argument, anon. Young people, without exception, are fucking retards who need solid advice - ESPECIALLY when money is involved.

How nobody stopped this young woman from crippling her own future is beyond me. Is it ultimately her fault? Yes. Should somebody have helped her? Yes.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 17:10:28 2018 No.9819246 >>9819231 are you brandon the calvinist muslim?

>>	Brandon !!tbkOPmI7bEB Tue Jun 19 17:11:11 2018 No.9819249 >>9819246 I'm non-religious. Used to call myself an atheist before I realized the atheist community was fucking retarded.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 17:13:21 2018 No.9819253 >>9819249 alright, confused you with a different internet autist called brandon

Anonymous Tue Jun 19 17:15:58 2018 No.9819266

>>9819231
20 just doesn’t seem that young to me I guess. By that point you should have learned to read the damn instructions before setting up something important. People like her, who blame their bad decisions on the (admittedly very shitty) system, get suckered into these situations often enough that it gives lenders no incentive to lower their interest rates. If it was only the very dumbest people who took out loans at 9%, there wouldn’t be enough demand to sustain that type of loan, forcing a more reasonable rate.

>>	Brandon !!tbkOPmI7bEB Tue Jun 19 17:19:41 2018 No.9819273 >>9819266 20 is very young. I'm 20 and my folks still look at me like I'm a teenager, which I pretty much am.

Anonymous Tue Jun 19 19:34:15 2018 No.9819502

>>9819249
>atheist community
That's as real as the theist community. You're an atheist by definition if you're non-religious and don't believe in any god. Fuck the fedora donning pseuds, you're as much associated with their crap for being an atheist as your local Protestant librarian is associated with ISIS for being a theist.

Anonymous Tue Jun 19 20:06:48 2018 No.9819549

>>9817309
If you are smart enough to profit from a superior education, you are smart enough to know that you do not have to pay $40-60 k. There are in-state schools, a plethora of scholarships, the option of taking your freshman classes at a cheaper institution where it makes no difference etc.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 20:08:22 2018 No.9819550 >>9817392 Yeah, it would be so much better if need-based scholarships or financial aid packages for poor students existed. But of course there is no such thing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 20:09:58 2018 No.9819553 >>9818195 Taken on that debt when there is no Earthly reason to do so is not "nothing," I agree -- but it is you being stupid. Not my problem.

Anonymous Tue Jun 19 20:22:06 2018 No.9819569

>>9817309
It's a shitty situation but there are ways around it. For example:
>Go to a community college for your first two years, figure out what you want to do and get your GER's knocked out there THEN go to the big expensive state university.
>Go to school part time and work full time. Get your degree in six years instead of four but zero or very little debt.
>Live with parents or family if possible.
>Learn a trade and take classes part time. This is what I did, I was a diesel mechanic and worked while taking aerospace engineering. Graduated from University of Alaska Fairbanks with 75k in the bank and took a pay cut to go work for Lockheed Matrin.

Long story short it's easy for high school graduates to dig themselves a deep hole because they're pushed to go straight from HS to a four year program at a big name state university. I try to tell every high school student I meet to not fall for that trap but most don't want to listen. It's depressing.

Anonymous Tue Jun 19 20:29:08 2018 No.9819578
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>take out a 40-60k loan for a car, a depreciating asset that will continue to eat money, at a hefty interest rate.
>its perfectly normal and nobody complains

>take out a 40-60k loan for an asset that is statistically proven to increase lifetime earnings and quality of life at a government subsidized interest rate.
>OMG WHAT A RIP!

sorry you can't just fuck off in college and burn 4 more years figuring out what you want to do with your life on someone elses dime. if you wanted to do that you should've joined the military.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 20:30:16 2018 No.9819583 >>9818326 note that anyone more successful than you is a boomer.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 20:33:34 2018 No.9819591 >>9819549 >doing any of that shit lol, these kids want the "college experience" of paying to live in a dorm or apartment near school, partying on the weekends, doing foreign exchange (with student loan money lol), joining a frat with dues, etc.

Brandon !!tbkOPmI7bEB Tue Jun 19 20:41:00 2018 No.9819600

>>9819578
Right, because it's realistic to expect that every 18-21 year old confused about their life should sign away four years of their very limited existences just to take it up the ass from Uncle Sam.

Let's not even take into account how many people DO graduate but are still unable to find jobs (even with STEM degrees) because the US economy is a fucking dumpster fire. That's capitalism for ya - either get lucky or fuck off and die, right?

Anonymous Tue Jun 19 20:49:27 2018 No.9819612

>>9817309
Maybe we shouldn't try to get everyone to go to college.
Quality over quantity was how it used to be.
If you are smart, most of the cost is covered by scholarships.
If you work a summer job during highschool/college, it's pretty affordable.

Is it any coincidence that the people that can't get decent scholarships because they are dumb are also dumb enough to go deeply into debt?

Brandon !!tbkOPmI7bEB Tue Jun 19 20:52:13 2018 No.9819615

>>9819612
Even complete retards can get a (non-STEM) college degree if they put in the slightest amount of effort. The problem is that 90% of degrees are worthless in the job market.

>If you work a summer job during highschool/college, it's pretty affordable.

Maybe in fucking 1975. Do you understand how expensive most four-year institutions are in the US?

>Is it any coincidence that the people that can't get decent scholarships because they are dumb are also dumb enough to go deeply into debt?

Guarantee you most of the American students on this board are at least somewhat in debt, anon.

Anonymous Tue Jun 19 20:57:18 2018 No.9819622
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>>9819600
>Right, because it's realistic to expect that every 18-21 year old confused about their life should sign away four years of their very limited existences just to take it up the ass from Uncle Sam.

yeah, it is. many countries still have compulsory service and have nowhere near the benefits package the US military has.

and you missed my point. why should 4 years of you "finding yourself" be paid for by the public? you can do that shit for free while working some wage slave gig like everybody else. i suggested the military as an option because its actually a good place to fuck off for 4 years. you also completely ignored the fact that a nice car costs the same as a college education, but nobody is complaining about their crippling car debt on a nebraskan meat puppet forum.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 20:58:47 2018 No.9819624 >>9819615 >The problem is that 90% of degrees are worthless in the job market. the unemployment rate for ANY degree holder is ~%3.

Brandon !!tbkOPmI7bEB Tue Jun 19 20:59:12 2018 No.9819625

>>9819622
>and you missed my point. why should 4 years of you "finding yourself" be paid for by the public?
It shouldn't, I agree. People who go to college to drink/party/smoke pot/do nothing don't deserve help. People who actually try and still get fucked by the system do, however.

>you also completely ignored the fact that a nice car costs the same as a college education, but nobody is complaining about their crippling car debt on a nebraskan meat puppet forum.
This is because a car is not marketed to you as a way to get a high-paying job, and definitely isn't cited as the only way to find success in life.

All that said, I do agree with you. For people who are completely lost in life, the military is a viable option.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 21:04:48 2018 No.9819631 >>9819624 I wonder how many of those degree-holders are employed as baristas See where I’m going with this

Anonymous Tue Jun 19 21:04:49 2018 No.9819632

>>9819615
>Maybe in fucking 1975. Do you understand how expensive most four-year institutions are in the US?
There is nothing stopping people from doing 2 years at a community college then transferring to a four-year.

>Guarantee you most of the American students on this board are at least somewhat in debt, anon.
I agree. I had a little debt as well ($10k). That shit was gone after a year of work.
"Somewhat in debt" is different from "deeply in debt", though.

>>	Brandon !!tbkOPmI7bEB Tue Jun 19 21:06:34 2018 No.9819635 >>9819631 This desu >>9819632 >There is nothing stopping people from doing 2 years at a community college then transferring to a four-year. Is that really any cheaper? Legitimate question, I have no experience with community colleges

Anonymous Tue Jun 19 21:09:19 2018 No.9819638

>>9819625
>This is because a car is not marketed to you as a way to get a high-paying job, and definitely isn't cited as the only way to find success in life.

these are two related, but distinct, issues. why do rich people, people who will never need a connection or job or more money, send their kid to college? because you don't go to college to make connections or get a job. you go to college to stop being a pleb. higher education has always been the hallmark of the upper class and that stigma still rightly so exists.

the "job couponing" thats been going on lately is a whole other issue that taps into the "everyones a winner" mentality thats been running rampant throughout our society. not everyone should go to college. not everyone deserves to. and thats where ignorant fucks who have no business in academia get into trouble. they want to be part of the club, so they get a McDegree and think its just as good as MIT.

STEM, not STEM. if you go to a quality institution, the words on your degree don't impact your ability to succeed.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 21:11:47 2018 No.9819641 >>9819635 >Is that really any cheaper? yes, CC is about 1/3rd cheaper than a 4 year so it cuts your out the door degree cost in half.

Anonymous Tue Jun 19 21:12:08 2018 No.9819642

>>9817309
The least American universities could do is keep the quality of education from becoming worse with each passing year. They're luring kids into a lifetime of debt for the "college experience" and a degree that is completely worthless on its own.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 21:12:48 2018 No.9819643 >>9819641 woops had my fractions wrong. its 1/3rd the price of tuition.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 19 21:14:41 2018 No.9819644 >>9819635 Waaay cheaper. The average yearly community college tuition cost is 1/3 of the average yearly four-year cost. There are also extra savings from being able to live at home rent-free when you go to community college.

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 00:20:11 2018 No.9819900

>>9819600

Dude what the fuck are you talking about? You realize that even as recently as 50-60 years ago people who were 18-21 were considered adults and expected to act as such? People have ruled kingdoms, battled armies, conquered countries, etc, while in their teens. This whole narrative of 'durr I'm 18 and so innocent! don't know what to do with my life!' needs to stop. If you haven't figured your shit out at 18 you're retarded.

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 01:03:08 2018 No.9819973

>>9819600
>US economy is a fucking dumpster fire

Lol what? The economy is great and jobs are super easy to find if you didn't choose a tard STEM major like biology/physics/chemistry. I got my first "real" job in my field (math/stats) after my third semester and have been there since. Graduating soon with no debt and a solid amount of money in the bank

Honestly just stop picking retard majors folks. I had loans too but they're paid off and I'm not even done yet. My situation is the case with all high-performing students I'm around in my program. Step up the game lads it's not even rare

Just because you didn't succeed in the system doesn't mean it's broken. You could simply be bad at what you do, or have made poor decisions/plans

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 01:17:34 2018 No.9820001

It's really up to people to decide how much in debt they want to go in. You gotta factor the most important decisions they make first, the major and which school they wanna attend to. If they attend their local universities it's much much cheaper because you get to save on housing etc, however if nothing is really near you than it's up to where you wanna attend in the country.

State school: cheaper, not as much funding as uc's or privates, school could have less rep, less resources available this could from lab's available to software needed.
UC/Private: more expensive, better rep, much better funding therefore more resources available to you, more contracts with software companies,etc..

this is just for STEM majors, for anything else I really don't know. Probably have to attend a top tier uni to get noticed or something.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 20 05:38:07 2018 No.9820313 >>9819273 Are you the guy from mu who was obsessed with lavren

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 20 06:52:52 2018 No.9820402 >>9819151 >Haiti >western world When I said "western" I pretty clearly meant first world, youre grasping at straws anon.

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 07:05:31 2018 No.9820413

>>9819973
>Just because you didn't succeed in the system doesn't mean it's broken.
Thats true, its broken because a great many people dont succeed in it and carry staggering amounts of debt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_debt#United_States
Its great that you ended up ok but dont dismiss luck as a causal factor for yourself.
>>9819622
Fair points however the public pays for the military as well making this line moot
>why should 4 years of you "finding yourself" be paid for by the public?
>>9819900
You are arguing against yourself here, history is littered with examples of very young people being put in positions of power and them fucking it up royally(heh) even with in some cases the advantage of being groomed for it. Most people wouldnt consider a 16 year old to be useful for much of anything but suddenly the moment they turn 18 they are expected to be fully functioning adults.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 20 07:07:43 2018 No.9820415 >>9818387 Somebody has to carry the world's burdens. Maybe China can take the load in 20 years.

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 07:09:06 2018 No.9820416

>>9819632
>There is nothing stopping people from doing 2 years at a community college then transferring to a four-year.
Except for the fact that universities typically have no standards for transfering credits and it depends on whether each department thinks that the classes were similar enough so you run a very high chance of having to take some classes again because a professor has a stick up their ass and won't count your transfer credits.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 20 07:10:08 2018 No.9820417 >>9819056 Rich kids have much greater access to education and opportunities so of course there will be more at ivy league.

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 07:10:20 2018 No.9820418

>>9819569
It all comes.es down to perception of status. Young people seem to be willing wondrag their balls through broken glass and barbed wire for a little bit of extra status. Why do you think there is a shortage of trade workers? America told their young that those are loser jobs.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 20 07:31:54 2018 No.9820434 >>9819056 >>9820417 Smart people have smart kids and tend to be good with money.

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 08:25:41 2018 No.9820474

From what I can tell the american system works roughly like this:
>undergrads choose to do useless degrees
>dont learn anything since standards are so low
>finish with a high GPA but up to 500k in debt
>creme de la creme gets selected for postgrad/ phd programs
>standards are insanely high, but since so many people go through undergrad there is still a sizeable population of phds
>graduate programs get funded to hell and back with the billions from undergrads
>end up with shitloads of very well trained professionals that publish more papers every year than any other nation
>at the cost of a hundred times as many people who have to slave away till 40 to rid themselves of debt

This honestly seems like a pretty good system if it works. Europe does put more effort into carrying the slowest of the bunch but do less research overall.

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 08:25:53 2018 No.9820476

From what I can tell the american system works roughly like this:
>undergrads choose to do useless degrees
>dont learn anything since standards are so low
>finish with a high GPA but up to 500k in debt
>creme de la creme gets selected for postgrad/ phd programs
>standards are insanely high, but since so many people go through undergrad there is still a sizeable population of phds
>graduate programs get funded to hell and back with the billions from undergrads
>end up with shitloads of very well trained professionals that publish more papers every year than any other nation
>at the cost of a hundred times as many people who have to slave away till 40 to rid themselves of debt

This honestly seems like a pretty good system if it works. Europe does put more effort into carrying the slowest of the bunch but do less research overall.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 20 08:31:34 2018 No.9820479 >>9820476 >Fucks over millions upon millions of people >good system Its a completely terrible system both from a humanitarian pov and from the pov of the state and its usage of human capital.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 20 08:32:53 2018 No.9820481 >>9820415 I'm not sure what you mean by "the worlds burdens". Im also not sure how one state shouldering them is necessary or desirable.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 20 08:38:50 2018 No.9820488 >>9820415 >worlds burdens You do realize that geopolitics and finance system was geared to provide america the most profit? Yet you knuckeleheads still fuck it up

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 08:42:45 2018 No.9820495

>>9820474
>Europe does put more effort into carrying the slowest of the bunch but do less research overall.
Oh sweety. Nonshithole countries in europe do much more research per capita

No...Country.......................Pubs/Pop
1....Switzerland...................0.04948049
2....Sweden........................0.03949838
3....Denmark.......................0.03724673
4....Finland.......................0.03512776
5....Iceland.......................0.03384176
6....Netherlands...................0.03266005
7....Norway........................0.03235590
8....Monaco........................0.03153357
9....United Kingdom................0.03034517
10...Australia.....................0.03013565
11...New Zealand...................0.02928470
12...Canada........................0.02848185
13...Israel........................0.02841134
14...Singapore.....................0.02814340
15...Belgium.......................0.02684193
16...Austria.......................0.02538793
17...Slovenia......................0.02456816
18...Liechtenstein.................0.02302488
19...Ireland.......................0.02280205
20...United States.................0.02250084
21...Germany.......................0.02177218
22...France........................0.01953477
23...Spain.........................0.01643973
24...Greece........................0.01601820
25...Italy.........................0.01575377
26...Czech Republic................0.01557232
27...Estonia.......................0.01429077
28...Japan.........................0.01392641
29...Croatia.......................0.01346473
30...Portugal......................0.01319425
31...Luxembourg....................0.01267497
32...Korea.........................0.01157157
33...Hungary.......................0.01128115
34...Greenland.....................0.01071429
35...Cyprus........................0.00913291

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 08:57:32 2018 No.9820512

Not American but I've seen countless posts of people claiming you can go to a public state school and transfer to an "elite" school in your last year. Is that actually feasible and you're all retarded or are these people lying? In my country it's almost impossible to change schools without starting over.

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 08:59:53 2018 No.9820517

>>9820495
That's because a lot of US PhDs like me only publish during graduate school, after which our research is all in proprietary or classified topics within industry/for the DOD. We put out a lot more research than other countries which is why the chinks are thirsty af for US engineering PhDs to come teach.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 20 09:44:09 2018 No.9820559 >>9818356 Acyually, the US desperately needs tradesmen. There is an absolutely desperate need for people with training in practical skills like welding, metalworking and so on. America doesn't have skilled blue-collar workers anymore.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 20 09:51:12 2018 No.9820570 >Going to get my PhD and then fuck off to the Korean peninsula Who #outie5000 here?

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 09:54:25 2018 No.9820572

>>9820495
Hmm. I had an argument about this recently. I dont think it makes that much sense to look at per capita, since education systems dont necessarily scale well.
In a direct comparison (ie war or something similar) it wouldnt matter that switzerland has more research done per capita, since the US would eclipse them by far in total research.
Not that thats a realistic scenario, but per capita isnt always more useful than looking at absolute numbers.

Also before you make any assumptions: not an american...

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 10:19:46 2018 No.9820605

>>9819569
This anon gets it. I'm still in undergrad but I did pretty much the same thing.

I also some time off between high school and uni since I had no idea what I wanted to do and didn't want to spend money while figuring that.

Seriously, high schools push people to go to college immediately just to boost their own metrics.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 20 10:24:45 2018 No.9820613 File: 80 KB, 214x266, 1484260229048.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >like test >dont enjoy reading to them >like the subject matter >cant find the time to practice What should I do?

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 10:47:41 2018 No.9820637

Just for an outside perspective:
I am currently finishing a Software Engineering/CompSci BS in russia, which I got into to dodge the draft, like most of us (Russians) do. I am also debbt free as the state pays for one's education, provided they are in a top k bracket according to the state exam.
Being drafted is seen as waste of a good year.

I alredy got fired from a job in a software company, where I worked for a year. I am now essentally working in my department.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 20 13:04:12 2018 No.9820799 >>9817309 Makes me feel glad my education is on the taxpayer Out of many things your government can spend taxpayer money on I would say education is not the worst one

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 20 13:54:23 2018 No.9820886 TacoSTEM paying $6.5 usd x trimester, theory classes are world class, lab classes are meh...

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 20 14:16:51 2018 No.9820916 >>9819635 Significantly I attend cc for about six grand a year, meanwhile my cousin pays about 20 grand per year at state scbool He takes out loans for living expenses which make up a large portion of the cost though

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 14:26:03 2018 No.9820927

Thing is the price isn't the only problem (obviously) or even the first to a distant second. The entire system exists in order to make sure the illusion of educational equality created by mandatory education remains an illusion. They use debt as one way of insuring the "wrong" people do not become part of the intellectual elite, but they also use a myriad of others. They use ambiguity as to standards, what is sufficient evidence, what are "important" topics, and overall what conditions must be met to legitimize a paper, person, or opinion in order to ensure they can *de*-legitimize any one of these that they do not approve of.

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 15:01:22 2018 No.9820965

>>9820512
From what I have heard, if you go from a non-prestigious school to an elite one, chances are almost all of your credits are wiped and you have to earn them back all over again. Depending on the school you are from and the one you are transferring to, the work you lose might not be much at all or could be essentially starting all over again

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 15:24:04 2018 No.9821007

>>9817309
I'm not an American myself, but I think it would be better to make universities appealing for those who are actually interested in an academic career and who are willingly making the decision to attend university, instead of making it seem like a compulsory and expected action for a young adult from a somewhat decent family.

The educational system in Germany was quite good at keeping (until recent years) most of the students out of universities. It was divided into three segments at the level of high school and each student was assigned to type of school based on their capabilities:

The low-tier so-called 'Hauptschule' which only lasted until year 9 where the students just learned the basics to later learn a low to mid-tier trade, so it was very paxis orientated

The mid-tier so-called 'Realschule' which lasted until year 10 where you basically learned everything you need for a basic office job or a mid to high-tier trade.

The high-tier so-called 'Gymnasium' in which the education was more theory-based with the goal to prepare the students for a later academic career. It lasted until year 13. After graduating you got the 'Allgemeine Hochschulreife' which gave you the opportunity to attend university.

To support this system there is the so-called 'Duales Ausbildungssystem' (dual education system) supervised by the state where you learn a trade (including fields like accounting, nursing and all sorts of white collar stuff) at a regular trade school to learn the theory while at the same time working at a company where you learn the praxis and start working, while getting a decent wage for a 16 years old of around 500 - 1000 Euros (depending on the occupation you choose) per month, so you can accumulate easily around 20k until you move out of your parents home. Most companies employ you just after finishing your apprenticeship. The system is standardized and there are over 300 certified occupations.

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 15:25:20 2018 No.9821013

>>9821007

The system was for the good of everyone, one the one hand for those who wanted to live a comfortable 9 to 5 live and for those who were actually interested in an actual academic career, until left-wing reformers began to reform the whole system for the sake of diversity and equality, slowly dissolving the three-way educational system and actively lowering the standard, making it easier to attend university, which leads to more and more people going to
university and to a shortage of people who are willing to learn a trade, because going to university is seen more and more like a necessity to live a good life.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 20 16:10:54 2018 No.9821078 >>9820799 Sh-shut up, communist....

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 16:34:32 2018 No.9821105

>>9820416
Most of the gen-eds will transfer.
Calc 1,2,3, DiffEq, HIstory, Writing, Foreign language, baby Physics, baby Chemistry, baby Biology.

Plenty of kids at my uni would take a watered-down class over the summer at CC because it was easier than the class offered at uni.
There is probably a bigger risk of college-credit highschool classes not transferring than CC credit.
My uni only placed a limit of 60 credit-hours you could transfer whether they were from CC, other unis, or college-credit highschool.

There is nothing stopping people from checking if their CC credit for a class will transfer to a uni.

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 17:29:22 2018 No.9821221

>>9819226
I don't care for the dumb woman fucking herself financially, but you have to realize this whole "let's loan money to people who probably won't be able to pay back" shit is bad to the economy. You have to realize that, due to reserve fractional banking, this loaned money doesn't actually exist yet -- it's entire existence depends on the person paying it back. Not only that, they use money other people have put into the bank to make these financial operations. If enough people default on this, it will crash literally everything and the government will waste your fucking tax dollars yet again bailing out the jew because "otherwise the consequences would be even worse".

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 17:43:21 2018 No.9821243

>>9818339
It's not really free market, it's the indiscriminate united states policy of loaning literal truckloads of money to literally anybody who's physically able to check a box on a form. They call it "incentives toward education" or some shit. What happens is they literally injected trillions of dollars into education, and when that amount of money is on the table I guarantee you there isn't a single person on earth who would not be corrupted by it.

Schools quickly figured out that these faggot ass students don't even feel the sting when the money leaves their hands, I mean it's not even theirs to begin with. Suddenly, tuition starts going up, just because the state's paying for it, and it has pretty much limitless money anyway. How to make more money? Let's start putting more students into this school. Smaller groups are better for actual education, but nobody gives a fuck about that. We need butts in seats to keep money flowing. Like a prison. We'll make bigger places if we need to. Classes too hard? Students dropping out? Can't have that, we'll dumb down the criteria and force teachers to pass students. Growth and retention. It's all that matters. And when it's all over, the "free market" gets a whole new generation of shitty students. The school's self-reported statistics are still showing skyhigh grades though because it made tests easier and this justifies further tuition increases because hey we're a top school.

All fueled by a literal meme that says you gotta spend literal decades of your life studying in order to not be a subhuman or even to get a job working for Mr. Jewdenberg. Oh wait. Remind me again who changed the structure of education. Industry.

Worst part of it is my country pretty much copies everything the USA does. "USA is 1st world right? If we do everything they do, we'll be 1st world too". Fuck you people. You're fucking my country and probably others as well by exercising your freedoms to be retarded on purpose.

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 18:03:29 2018 No.9821282

>>9820799
It's not actually spending any money on anything. It's LOANING money and they fully expect the money to be paid back.

Reminder that fleeing the country is a valid option for those jobless graduates and many of them will take that option. Many women will literally become prostitutes to pay the bills. Not that I have anything against prostitutes, I think they're awesome, but hey it's illegal there and probably not what she wanted to become after she graduated.

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 18:13:56 2018 No.9821308

>>9820413
>Thats true, its broken because a great many people dont succeed in it and carry staggering amounts of debt

Maybe the problem is that there is a massive public opinion, that is quite forcefully pushed on youth through the colluding education system, that NEED to attend college or they will essentially work in a grocery store the rest of their lives. What this leads to (which is exactly what universities want) is a massive influx of people who take retarded majors in overwhelming quantities. This massive swarm of retards rakes in billions for the university system and the university deliberately overloads their system so they can rake in extra cash for themselves. What ends up happening is that all universities care about are the number of students they can shove through and take money from which leads them to expand extremly retarded departments ( education, communications, women studies, etc) and they also make these classes so easy that they are more useless than they already were. Since, in general, a larger amount of stem majors (perhaps 50-60%) are there to actually learn there are a lot less of them compared to the retarded masses in other departments. This almost always means that STEM departments are severely underfunded especially because they require more staff/equipment to successfully teach while any retard with a computer can get a communications degree.

If colleges were split to be purely STEM, Liberal Arts, and Buisiness, things would operate much smoother and the quality of education, especially for stem, would increase tremendously. Also fuck general education classes, the only thing they do is take away more core major classes and allow the university to inject political bias/Marxism into a generally apolitical department (that and waste your money).

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 18:20:03 2018 No.9821317

>>9820474
>>creme de la creme gets selected for postgrad/ phd programs

Ironically, its literally the exact opposite for most cases (at least at my university). The majority of people who go for their PHD are idiots who had high gpas but only did academics so they couldnt get a job. They then go to grad school since they are retarded and think they need to focus harder on academics so they double down and eventually end up shittily teaching classes to undergrads.

Anecdotally, I would say this is around 70% of my classmates going for graduate degrees(Aerospace engineering). Also getting a postgrad in aerospace engineering is fucking retarded and a massive waste of time so this percentage is probably higher for my major than other stem majors.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 20 18:23:46 2018 No.9821323 >>9820927 This is extremely accurate. I would also add that the academic elite like to fuck over their 'non-elite' peers by driving tuition and expenses through the roof which just also happens to line their pockets.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 20 18:26:00 2018 No.9821331 >>9821323 >academic elite You mean professors. Lol. They're an expense, to be reduced to zero if possible. Schools of the future would like to have everyone paying thousands to watch videos if possible.

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 18:35:55 2018 No.9821350

>>9821331
They are part of the problem but not the main issue. The problem is the '''''board''''' as well as the top administration that constantly cause problems. Most of these people are appointed by the academic institution (aka their elite peers) and waste absolutley massive quantities of money virtue signaling to other universities about retarded shit that 90% of the student body fucking despise (smoke free campus, >le most diverse school, most renewable energy). My university spent millions on a diversity campaign that basically was aimed at the STEM departments because they are too white and male and they are very apolitical which is problematic and means they are essentially kkk nazis. Not only did they spend millions on the forced diversity campaign, they are also spending millions on building a massive fucking monument to their diversity campaign. Its literally the fucking epitome of virtue signaling.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 20 19:37:55 2018 No.9821426 >>9821282 Education is fully covered by taxpayer's money in Poland though There are no loans, you mean I'll pay it back in taxes later, but that's a different thing, taxes aren't as overwhelming

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 20 19:57:40 2018 No.9821462 >>9818287 lmao I bet a Boomer wrote that piece.

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 20:32:52 2018 No.9821506

>>9821426
I don't know that system in too much detail. But it sounds like a better system than the utterly corrupt US education. At first glance, at least there doesn't seem to be any reason for them to not be legit schools who care about educating people. Assuming they didn't come up with some crazy incentive to reward schools who "perform well" which will pretty much guarantee corruption.

>>9821350
Those people aren't signaling for the benefit of students. They just want to do what's trendiest and attract customers and avoid bad PR. In fact, you can bet your ass they will cover up anything that happens on their school grounds if they think it will kill them politically. Apparently, there's some US law that gives school administration the power to essentially police, investigate, judge and administer justice within their own campus. It's not like some debt-ridden student is going to be able to afford a lawyer anyway.

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 20:59:26 2018 No.9821545

>>9821506
>Those people aren't signaling for the benefit of students
This is exactly what i'm saying. They simply see the students as money farms and dont give two shits about them.
>gives school administration the power to essentially police, investigate, judge and administer justice within their own campus.
I am not aware of this law but this would make sense considering how totalitarian they act all the time. I despise frats, but what my university has been doing to them (PSU) is severely concerning in terms of personal rights. For starters, they basically have a designated police force that goes no-knock raiding the frats whenever the fuck they want. They placed rules on frats that are outside of school property (which they have no right to) and are consistently looking for loopholes in the law to fuck them over. They are doing this because, like you said, they will do literally anything to cover up bad PR and save their bottom line. Ever since the one student died from hazing, which made national news, they have been going full fucking authoritarian on everything. They bust peoples balls over almost everything which is why they essentially killed the Outing club because 'they cant afford the risk of bad publicity if someone got hurt'. 4-5 students die each year due to drugs/other retarded shit but they make sure that it never gets past local news.

PSU recently banned smoking (including vapes) on campus to virtue signal, get grant money, and because it is masculine. The sheer number of international students and vets they have will ignore this and tell them to fuck off and will cause a nice big fiasco. I can't wait till they remove all the ash trays because
>Hehe le smoking is now illegal so no one will do it
and then everyone litters fucking everywhere with cigarette butts and joule cartridges. And of fucking course, as they bust peoples balls over tobacco products, they continuously lax marijuana rules and regulations like the hypocrites they are.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 20 21:03:27 2018 No.9821548 >>9820559 If they really are in desperate need they'd be paying more, yet those careers still don't pay much

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 21:11:12 2018 No.9821553

>>9821545
>Ever since the one student died from hazing, which made national news, they have been going full fucking authoritarian on everything

Sad part is nobody at the school gives a flying fuck about the student, he was just a walking 200k check to them. All this stupid shit is being done as a classic cover your ass measure. You people can die all you want, just make sure you do it after you graduate!

I'd shoot up schools as well if I was american. Those morons kept killing students when they should've gone straight to the administrative palaces they keep building.

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 22:02:57 2018 No.9821620

>>9821553
>Sad part is nobody at the school gives a flying fuck about the student, he was just a walking 200k check to them
Exactly this. The school only cares about two things: money and power. PSU completly drives policy in the local area because they have an insane amount of money (they do bring in a fair amount of money as well). They keep increasing the freshman class size at main campus each year while only minimally expanding housing and they also force freshman to live in campus housing so they can take even more of their money (in addition to meal plans and other required garbage they force them to pay).

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 22:30:30 2018 No.9821642

>Graduated from shit tier school with BS in math
25k in student loans
>decide to get my MS in math a slightly better state school
Another 9k in student loans

I'm not mad, i make enough money to pay it off but they needed to do a better job educating students on the loans. I filled out 1 form in undergrad and checked boxes every semester afterward to qualify and accept my 35k in loans. It needs to be harder than: check here for money. I would've appreciated it more and probably worked more part time during my BS

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 20 23:00:26 2018 No.9821672 Even with just an OK job, one could easily pay off $60k debt in less than 5 years of payments and still live very comfortably.

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 23:13:40 2018 No.9821685

This phenomenon has been caused by two things:

1. The government began subsidizing student loans more and more every year, essentially "free money" that artificially drove the price of tuition skyward as they could demand more without experiencing negative growth of the student body.

2. Administrators hiring more and more administrators. The ratio of administrative employees to student has ballooned over the decades, which actual teaching faculty has remained steady. The cost of this has fallen upon the student. As administrators have minimal oversight or accountability, it is easy for them to create more useless positions and grow their departments.

Universities in the United States need an axe man to severely cut down the size of their administrative body and other excess expenses.

Anonymous Wed Jun 20 23:57:36 2018 No.9821735

>>9820495
>research per capita

Sorry but what the fuck? That doesn't sound like a useful metric at all when comparing what different countries bring to the academic table. When considering the kind of prominence that say, Switzerland and China have in publications for a field, why would it at all be relevant what the population of the country is?

No matter how you twist the numbers, your country isn't doing more for academic research than America. Sorry friend. Just take the L on this one and move on

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 20 23:58:06 2018 No.9821736 >>9821685 My uni unironically has an administrative body for its administrative body for its departmental administrative body. It's absolutely fucking retarded.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 21 01:20:59 2018 No.9821846 >>9817336 The Student Loan situation is so bad because it's gone uncontested in its reign of unethical practices; no oversight.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 21 01:39:59 2018 No.9821866 >>9821736 plus legions of ombudsmen to not resolve complaints

Anonymous Thu Jun 21 03:01:11 2018 No.9821934

>>9817309
People are going to wake up to how bad of an idea it is. I have; but, it's too late. I wish I knew enough about money when I was a kid starting my academic "career"

Let's compare a business to a degree.

A business takes 4-10 years to bring to a point of net income. Equity in a business is an asset that gives passive income, or can be sold and reinvested into diversified instruments providing passive income. If the business fails, debt is held by a corporation that can be liquidated and walked away from.

School takes 4-10 years to produce a degree leading to job that produces net income. A job's income is not passive. A job cannot be sold. A portion of the income can be slowly invested to yield a passive income within 20-40 years. If the degree turns out to be worthless or the job 'owner' is incapacitated, income stops and remaining debt cannot be discharged.

My kids will not make the same mistake.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 21 04:57:02 2018 No.9822029 File: 66 KB, 1024x683, 'Murican Dream.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9817309 It just ain't worth it, anymore. I'd rather live in Europe than 'Murica.

Anonymous Thu Jun 21 05:23:49 2018 No.9822066

>>9821545
I go to Michigan State University. Larry Nassar, the doctor who molested a bunch of gymnasts and athletes, worked there. The administration is going insane with PR and it's rather funny to watch those who care tear themselves apart as more details come out about how their culture enabled it. Most people don't give a shit but this is a perfect example of a university caring more about public relations than things which actually matter, like perhaps being self aware enough to not ignore serious abuse.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 21 05:26:17 2018 No.9822069 >>9821934 College may not have been the right choice for you, but for scientists there is not really another option. The smartest get scholarships and don't have to pay for it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 21 09:38:37 2018 No.9822300 >>9821672 > in less than 5 years Is this sarcasm? 4 years is still too fucking much time to pay it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 21 11:57:44 2018 No.9822492 >>9821548 Actually they do pay a fair bit more than they used to

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 21 12:03:22 2018 No.9822500 >>9822029 >his faggy little jpg has FOX >but not Disney... cute

Anonymous Thu Jun 21 13:33:51 2018 No.9822665

>>9821735
Take your own advice about taking the L. Read the previous anons posts carefully, one claimed europe doesnt contribute as much research, which is demonstrably false. The quality of research and/or the subjective impact of it was never in contention.

Anonymous Thu Jun 21 13:37:20 2018 No.9822673

>>9822069
>The smartest get scholarships and don't have to pay for it.
This isnt true at all.
1) Academic success doesnt imply intelligence
2) Scholarships are not all equal either in the grant or how they are awarded
3) Factors out of your control greatly affect your eligibility.

Anonymous Thu Jun 21 13:43:22 2018 No.9822687

>>9821308
America just needs to straight copy what everyone else does and split higher education into university and college. Where college is far more applied in its curriculum including direct training for jobs and university is simply higher learning. There would still need to be a legislative overhaul addressing tuition and private/public schools but it would be a start.

Anonymous Thu Jun 21 17:32:30 2018 No.9823039

>>9817309
If it weren't for my parent's paying for my undergraduate I'd be in trade school right now. Unless you're majoring in something like computer science where you're guaranteed a job and 60'000 the first year it just isn't worth it. If you're smart you can always become a self-employed tradesman and hire a few people below you and bring in a couple thousand a week on contracts with minimal effort (literally just phone calls and accounting)

>>	Brandon !!tbkOPmI7bEB Thu Jun 21 17:42:39 2018 No.9823053 >>9822069 My high school GPA was a 4.1 and I didn't receive any scholarships beyond one that was guaranteed because I was born in that state.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 21 17:43:58 2018 No.9823058 >>9822673 >3) Factors out of your control greatly affect your eligibility. Yeah like being black or having a vagina

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 21 17:49:21 2018 No.9823072 File: 142 KB, 860x424, ffs_brandon.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9823053 Is that to go along with your 144 IQ? Or your entire lack of knowledge about TCP/IP and cookies? How's those books and college lectures working out for you?

>>	Brandon !!tbkOPmI7bEB Thu Jun 21 17:50:48 2018 No.9823073 >>9823072 I just want you to know that it's okay to be upset. Not everyone can ever hope to be as intelligent as me. Looking forward to your next "lel tripfag" post <3

Anonymous Thu Jun 21 17:58:44 2018 No.9823087

>>9823073
No, you shouldn't be posting on /sci/.
You've only displayed popsci knowledge and clearly have NO UNDERSTANDING of network infrastructure (which anyone doing a STEM degree would have some grasp of, as technical computer knowledge is a required).
You are the cancer killing /sci/, and from evidence is seems you've only been here for this month, or at most, a couple of months.
Either learn, or fucking leave.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 21 18:13:20 2018 No.9823108 >>9818241 I literally had a professor tell me to go ahead and sign up for loans because "you're going to be in debt anyway."

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 21 18:14:44 2018 No.9823110 >>9818369 Scarcity is value. If we're all millionaires then we're all poor. Someone has to rake the leaves.

Anonymous Thu Jun 21 18:17:26 2018 No.9823111

>>9818387
This is a guy who has never been here and probably lives in one and a half square meters in London, listening to stabbings and shootings outside his proletarian containment block.
America is actually a paradise if you know what you're doing and have a little land because it is the only country where you will be left the hell alone (and if not, then you can shoot the sonofabitch).

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 21 18:18:41 2018 No.9823113 >>9819226 I remember the "instructions" I was given, they were gibberish coming from a person younger than me who admitted that he did not understand them.

Anonymous Thu Jun 21 18:24:20 2018 No.9823126

>>9817309
This is the whole argument: should banks (or anyone) be respected in law and supported by government in their efforts to collects funds which mathematically cannot exist?
The banks have no legitimate claim after a certain point. There is no physically possible way that the money they have decided they are owed can exist. They will take a loss, period. Now, an administration looking to score points with artificially impoverished voters could make a political killing by moving that already-certain threshold to one end of the scale, and a junta in service to the banks would move it the other way. A moral leadership would say, the government needs to stop guaranteeing loans and inventing extra-Constitutional duties.

Anonymous Thu Jun 21 18:24:49 2018 No.9823128

>>9823110
If we're going to start accepting harsh realities, what about the fact that the overwhelming majority of people are content with their respective situations and not driven to improve their lives? I'm not suggesting that poor and unskilled people should be blamed for being so, certainly not, but I also think that it's silly to think that the only reason there are people raking leaves is because there aren't enough positions open in the architecture department. Subsidizes college and you wouldn't have thousands of Elon Musk's graduating every year, but at least you'd know that one of the factors that does influence the chances of an individual succeeding would be nullified.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 21 18:29:28 2018 No.9823136 >>9823128 I am for this, but only in trade with affirmative action. If you implement both, under the current regime of Courageous Anti-Racist Witchfinding, then we might as well not have higher education any more.

Anonymous Thu Jun 21 19:02:42 2018 No.9823192

>>9819083
If you're poor and got accepted into Ivy League you get a lot of it paid for. Not sure for private schools but it would make sense for private schools to also have the money to be able to throw it to some poor families. I know for a fact UPenn is now doing this and so is Princeton.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 21 19:07:21 2018 No.9823201 >>9819231 >>9819266 100% agree that 20 is not young. If you live to be 80 then you've lived a quarter of your life by now

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 21 19:38:03 2018 No.9823240 >>9823111 Im Canadian, its just like America except without all the garbage.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 21 19:42:50 2018 No.9823247 >>9823111 You don't own land

Anonymous Thu Jun 21 21:08:47 2018 No.9823366

>>9823128
>Subsidizes college and you wouldn't have thousands of Elon Musk's graduating every year, but at least you'd know that one of the factors that does influence the chances of an individual succeeding would be nullified.
This is entirely wrong, in fact, it will create more of a problem than the current situation. Colleges are already essentially subsidized, except with a few middlemen inbetween the college and its money. Under normal circumstances, subsidizing something basically floods the markets and lowers the price of the good (usually food). In the case of education, the good being 'subsidized' is not the education or the diploma, but rather the individual going there. Education would not be subsidized, YOU would be subsidized for companies and the government and your 'price' (actual value) would go down. This is already somewhat a problem for even some STEM majors because companies get inundated with massive amounts of mediocre and average resumes from the overwhelming majority of college students. This forces companies into retarded hiring practices (aka focusing purely on gpa vs actual skills/experience) and leaves many 'aspiring Elons' in shittier jobs where there potential is severely limited.
I personally do not have any good ideas on how to fix this issue, but I do know that the first step toward any form of solution is to completely destroy the current system and rebuild from the ground up. Sometimes it is best to just start on a clean slate than to try to glue a million pieces back together.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 21 21:27:22 2018 No.9823389 File: 294 KB, 701x1102, 1526228108846.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >tfw bachelors in engineering with only $3000 in debt and I'm halfway through saving to pay it off only 5 months into my first job

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 22 00:25:11 2018 No.9823611 Dumbfucks that shouldnthave gone to college in the first place. Went to an out of state University or private school. Placing too much importance on school brand recognition.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 22 00:27:22 2018 No.9823616 What do you guy's consider a reasonable amount of debt? Like if my first job is 65k starting and I'm in 40k debt isn't that "doable"?

Anonymous Fri Jun 22 01:02:03 2018 No.9823664

>>9820927
>They use ambiguity as to standards, what is sufficient evidence, what are "important" topics, and overall what conditions must be met to legitimize a paper, person, or opinion in order to ensure they can *de*-legitimize any one of these that they do not approve of.
This is exactly my experience of high school humanities classes.

>>9820559
>>9821548
>If they really are in desperate need they'd be paying more, yet those careers still don't pay much
This. When the industry says "we desperately need tradesmen," what it means is "we'd sure like to get more people to train for and take these jobs than the market decides, so as to artificially decrease wages and earn more." It's just like when the government and industry yell about how desperately "we" need more scientists, and how "we're" "falling behind," even as the median age of new PIs awarded their first grant continues to skyrocket and as more and more MS scientists work side by side with BS grads in the same shitty <$20/hr jobs.
The unions wouldn't be making sweeping, historical concessions to management if there was any real undersupply of qualified tradesmen. In practice, "learn a trade" is how the right deflects the economic anxieties of the first generation since the depression which will be worse off than their parents - reminding them that it's their own fault. You don't need the workhorse of social mobility your grandparents relied on to work properly, you can just train specifically for a job that will be outsourced or automated or otherwise crushed by neoliberalism in the next twenty years!

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 22 01:02:38 2018 No.9823666 >>9817309 >actually buying into the Koch brothers memes

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 22 01:03:39 2018 No.9823671 >>9823389 >tfw bachelors in math with $12k and paid it off in my first year of grad school doing side work life is easy

Anonymous Fri Jun 22 02:21:24 2018 No.9823772

>>9817309
this entire debt shit made me not want to go to uni.
It's slightly better in the UK, with it costing 9k/year but I still don't think I can handle a debt like that. I'd much rather work, save up a bit of money, write up a business plan, show it to potential investors and make money that way. If I wanted to go to uni I would be able to pay it all off then.

Fuck off, Brandon. Fri Jun 22 03:35:28 2018 No.9823912

>>9819231
>>9819249

Fuck off, Brandon.

Insignificant, weeping mule. Why do you base your beliefs on what other people think? Are you so insecure? Probably a wise decision, actually. I doubt strongly that you can form coherent thoughts on your own.

>>9819600
Please do the latter.

Anonymous Fri Jun 22 04:01:55 2018 No.9823939

>>9818387
>while objectively being the shittiest place to live in the western world unless you are ludicrously wealthy.
America is paradise for anyone with a triple-digit IQ. Americans enjoy more rights and liberties, a higher median wage, cheaper land, cheaper housing, cheaper food, cheaper gasoline, cheaper cars, better healthcare (through insurance) and, as the world police, a nation secure against any and all threats. What do you have, filthy eurocommunist?

Anonymous Fri Jun 22 04:05:07 2018 No.9823943

>>9819056
>You can look at statistics for different Ivy League institutions and notice the paltry amount of low income students.
Intelligence is correlated with a higher than average income. Dumb parents with low wages breed dumb kids who go on to fail at academic pursuits, just as their parents did.
> This puts the meritocracy narrative into the ground unless you're also arguing kids of rich people are better.
The SAT/ACT and high school GPA - which ivy league institutions use to filter out the retards from their gilded halls - are the closest we´ll ever get to meritocratic access to education, save for admission by literal IQ-rankings.

Anonymous Fri Jun 22 04:12:46 2018 No.9823953

>>9822673
>1) Academic success doesnt imply intelligence
Success on the ACT/SAT does, however, imply intelligence.

>2) Scholarships are not all equal either in the grant or how they are awarded
They are equal in sufficient measure.
>3) Factors out of your control greatly affect your eligibility.
You´re right; brainlet blacks and hispanics are admitted to fill token minority quotas, but as for the rest of the applicant pool, SAT/ACT scores and HS grades matter more.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 22 05:49:45 2018 No.9824077 not american so I don't care

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 22 05:54:27 2018 No.9824084 >>9822673 >>9823953 >sat >Intelligence This coming from a country that does calculus first time in college?

Anonymous Fri Jun 22 08:19:06 2018 No.9824226

>>9823366
I don't agree that subsidizing college would change the fundamental structure in any meaningful way. A bachelor's degree today is worth a high school degree fifty years ago, not because there are too many college degrees, but because generally the specialization required today of a bachelor's is equivalent to what was required of just a high school degree fifty years ago. In other words, colleges aren't pushing graduates out, but rather industries are pulling graduates in, generally. You could argue that the increase in the requirement of specialization is merely a direct reaction to an abundance of high school degrees, but that doesn't address the fact that industries today are much larger and more sophisticated than they ever were. There is objectively and technically a greater need for specialization today. If colleges are subsidized, the structure doesn't change; you will have many more mechanical engineering graduates, sure, but the number of them that make it to the top would still remain proportionally small. The same phenomena that I addressed in the beginning of my first post (that most people aren't driven) would still apply. You would still have to work just as hard as you would if you graduated with just a high school degree fifty years ago.

The bare minimum relative to the market's requirements should be ensured and today that minimum is a bachelor's degree. We could discuss the ratio of the push-pull mechanism all day but that's besides the point.

Anonymous Fri Jun 22 08:30:51 2018 No.9824239

>>9823939
>Americans enjoy more rights and liberties
Cite the ones you think you have that other western nations dont
> a higher median wage
No - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income
>cheaper land
The price of land is principally dictated by its location so this point is moot.
>cheaper housing
see above
> cheaper food
>cheaper gasoline
> cheaper cars
Typically when a nation produces a product they subsidize that product domestically.
>better healthcare (through insurance)
Nice for the rich, sucks for everyone else and worse people pushed back against the ACA despite it insuring millions of Americans.
> nation secure
Remind me again how secure you are against hijacked planes, school shootings, and bombings?

You are drinking the kool aid hard my friend. There are great things about America, the social narrative that everything is the best in America isnt one of them. As I said originally America is only a great place to live if you are wealthy.
>>9823953
>Success on the ACT/SAT does, however, imply intelligence.
No they dont, why do you think they do?
>They are equal in sufficient measure.
They demonstrably arent.
> SAT/ACT scores and HS grades matter more.
Socio economic status and random life events to you and your family can preclude you from doing well in either.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 22 08:32:48 2018 No.9824241 >>9824084 That's nowhere near true.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 22 13:52:50 2018 No.9824706 >>9819097 Then why are you on /sci/?

Anonymous Fri Jun 22 14:40:46 2018 No.9824796

>>9818356
This whole thing you just said is retarded.
The issue is one of two things: people go to college, don't complete college, then get pissed off they're not making bank.
OR: They complete college, expect instant gratification by working a high-paying job, but get pissed off when they don't end up with said job. In the end, they work as a high-school teacher because their bachelors degree (typically not stem related) only qualifies them for such jobs.
>Not enough high paying jobs for everyone with a degree.
People need to GET degrees in the first place.
The educational system in the US is stagnant for a long time.
The amount of degrees earned each year has not picked up since the 60's. While technology is growing faster than ever. Meanwhile the demand for educated work associated to that tech growth is also growing.
Education is lagging behind, and this disparity leads to a premium towards educated work.
>Meaning that no matter how educated or experience you make a population the majority will always be in the middle or bottom of the economy.
This is true if your educational system is treated as a credibility machine, rather than one focused on learning.
See Mike Spence: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/2d89/1415c5f4faa5d1adf4492c01fc596231353e.pdf..
This is the problem behind public education - and why Bush's educational reform was a monumental disaster. Simply getting more degrees does not mean your population is educated. At worst, it means that you need to be 20 to 40 grand in debt to become a truck driver.

The educational problem in the US is difficult to tackle because we need more educated individuals, but we don't want the industry to be cranking out degrees like they're a mob boss with a money printing press.

Anonymous Fri Jun 22 14:41:49 2018 No.9824801

>>9824796
contd.
A good start to make just a dent in this problem would be to help fund intermediate educational programs like associates degrees (for a much cheaper jumping off platform towards bachelors degrees) or provide better funding towards trade programs and apprenticeships. Of which the US has a poor track record, comparatively to the rest of the developed world.

Anonymous Fri Jun 22 14:49:15 2018 No.9824824

>>9824239
>Nice for the rich sucks for everyone else
Don't have to be rich, just have a job or be a student. For everyone on this board, health care wouldn't be a problem whatsoever.

>Cheaper housing/land
This is true in many parts of the country that aren't cities. Living in a nice suburb in a big house could be had for 350k in a lot of areas, not so in Western Europe.

>More rights
You can walk into a store with cash and walk out with a 60 round semi auto in most states and then put it loaded in the passengers seat. Some states require a permit for it to be loaded though. What other country has this?

Anonymous Fri Jun 22 15:00:02 2018 No.9824853

>>9824824
I'm not the guy you're responding two but
>just have a job or be a student.
This is the problem. We don't want to have our healthcare associated to the place we work. It prevents job mobility, and puts you at risk if you lose your job.
The reason why Healthcare was such a hot topic in the early 2010's was fundamentally because of the financial crisis. People lost their jobs, then realized they ALSO lost their healthcare.
Ideally we want our healthcare to be independent, but finding affordable and decent independent healthcare is pretty much impossible unless you don't actually need it.
The reasons why it's not cheap fundamentally revolves around the asymmetric information associated to having your insurance company make decisions for you, rather than you making decisions for yourself.

Anonymous Fri Jun 22 16:05:46 2018 No.9824989

>>9824239
>Nice for the rich, sucks for everyone else and worse people pushed back against the ACA despite it insuring millions of Americans.
The ACA is a horrendously corporatist piece of legislation. We could've got single payer or a public option, but instead Obama started negotiating at the middle of the opposition's policy, and now we have Romneycare

Anonymous Fri Jun 22 16:07:54 2018 No.9824991

>>9824824
1) What about everyone else, specifically the people who cant afford it or who are ineligible because insurance is the wild west in America with awful oversight?
2) This is exactly the point, in NA we have a shit load of land and therefore that land is cheap. That isnt unique to America, I could buy thousands of hectares of Canadian shield for fuck all.
3) Strictly as an example of a freedom youre right. Though I dont know why anyone would want this.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 22 16:09:57 2018 No.9824996 >>9824989 I agree its a trainwreck pile of shit, but it seems the primary complaint against it isnt that it is inefficient or poorly executed but rather that it exists at all.

Anonymous Fri Jun 22 16:13:38 2018 No.9825004

>>9817309
It really depends on the job you get after graduation. If you going to be in debt you need to make sure you are in a major that has good job prospects and/or you are doing well above your peers and/or your school has the prestige to benefit you.
Although everyone who has been to a top school know a lot of the name recognition is bullshit, for the rest of the world it's still what it is. Graduating from MIT/Stanford with a shit degree is still worth the debt most of the time.
Also if you are going into medicine, CS, energy etc one of the fields with known and proven solid jobs, I think it's still worth it. I know a couple of friends with a bunch of debt and they start working at Google/Bloomberg etc then that issue vanished.
Or you can just not worry about your student debt that much. To my very limited knowledge nobody I know really got crushed by it and maybe in the future it will be alleviated. That said I would have never done a PhD if it meant I would be in 100k+ debt.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 22 16:59:19 2018 No.9825112 >>9819578 >40-60k loan for a car >I don't know how much cars cost

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 22 17:01:17 2018 No.9825118 >>9820479 >humanitarian pov absolute garbage

Anonymous Fri Jun 22 17:35:47 2018 No.9825173

>>9824991
>3) Strictly as an example of a freedom youre right. Though I dont know why anyone would want this.
Which is why you are a yuropoor faggot that loves gulping down refugee semen while virtue signaling that you are the best in the world when the majority of your countries are so heavily regulated that you get taxed for breathing because its killing the environment.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 22 18:22:18 2018 No.9825241 File: 394 KB, 634x2662, 1527097162989.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Remember to take out plenty of loans so you can afford all of the nice things to show off to your friends. You don't want to look poor and like a failure after all!

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 22 18:44:10 2018 No.9825293 >>9817309 This post is barely related to science and math. 4chan needs a /uni/ board to keep college advice threads out of sci. Expect me in the next round of janny applications, I will remove these threads for free.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 22 22:35:45 2018 No.9825645 >>9825293 >serious discussion and dissection of the current issues that largely define the early careers of our newest generation of scientists counts as a "college advice thread" Fuck off

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 22 23:04:04 2018 No.9825684 >>9823671 Tutoring? I know math people can make $40+ an hour provided they're in the upper crust of American suburbia from tiger moms.

Anonymous Sat Jun 23 02:21:15 2018 No.9825890

Met an american, graduated in CS, he didn't even know what a polynomial ring was. Good job, Americans! Thats why you pay a shitload of money, to not even get taught basic algebra. Greetings from Europe, where i didn't pay my university a dime and the only money spent was on used books

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 02:23:03 2018 No.9825891 >>9825890 Greeting from America, where I got thru my PhD with no debt and get to live in a country that actually has an industry for my field

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 06:23:35 2018 No.9826178 >>9825241 That's depressing.

Anonymous Sat Jun 23 06:28:46 2018 No.9826180

Student loan is objectively good thing though. Its an incredible motivator and a boomin finance industry. Here where uni is free its frequent that people "stretch" it out because its free.

Americans should feel lucky, they have best universities for the people and best financial system for society

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 06:40:48 2018 No.9826192 >>9826180 Go get a debt pal go to murica

Anonymous Sat Jun 23 06:41:05 2018 No.9826194

>>9817309
in germany my bachelor costs 300€/semester, so 1800€ for 3 years, if you/your parents dont have too much income you can easily get goverment student loans, up to 650(?)€ a month, in many cases you only have to pack back 50% without any interest rate

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 06:42:40 2018 No.9826196 ITT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brdx7kmxx2I

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 06:43:52 2018 No.9826198 >>9826194 Germany is actually a first world nation though.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 06:45:08 2018 No.9826199 >>9826180 Cringe

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 06:45:51 2018 No.9826200 >>9825241 >Move out at 22 >Have kid at 28 like a boomer >35 starting a business >37 make 40k a year Hahahaha I don't wanna do these things.

Anonymous Sat Jun 23 06:49:23 2018 No.9826204

>>9817336
You realize median college debt is $12k for debt holders and median is much higher, right?

The vast majority of US students graduate with less debt than you.

$60k is rare. And often high debt levels can be tracked back to the predatory technical schools or private schools, public schools graduate low debt students.

99% of the "crisis" is manufactured.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 07:00:44 2018 No.9826213 A 5 year degree in Denmark costs 88k. But since it's a socialist country it's free. Suck it Americans.

Anonymous Sat Jun 23 07:08:51 2018 No.9826223

>>9824824
>>Nice for the rich sucks for everyone else
>Don't have to be rich, just have a job or be a student. For everyone on this board, health care wouldn't be a problem whatsoever.
I can do better in socialist Europe with a simple job and as a student.

>>Cheaper housing/land
>This is true in many parts of the country that aren't cities. Living in a nice suburb in a big house could be had for 350k in a lot of areas, not so in Western Europe.
Yeah in bumbfuck nowhere I can buy a house for 350k even in western Europe.

>>More rights
>You can walk into a store with cash and walk out with a 60 round semi auto in most states and then put it loaded in the passengers seat. Some states require a permit for it to be loaded though. What other country has this?
I don't really care about this.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 07:10:11 2018 No.9826226 Don't move to america unless you're a capable individual. It's not for brainlets or the poor. The American dream exists for the best of best. Being born average in america is worse than the rest of the west

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 07:15:51 2018 No.9826233 >>9820474 >that publish more papers every year than any other nation That doesn't mean what's being published is actually worth a damn.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 09:09:53 2018 No.9826344 >>9825173 >Assumes im european because I hold a different view >virtue signalling >le europe is regulated xdd Youre mentally challenged.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 09:15:55 2018 No.9826348 >>9826226 >Dont move to america unless you dont care about the following : the environment, healthcare, compassion, ethics, justice, anyone who isnt white. Do move to america if all you care about is making money at any expense. Fixed that for you.

Anonymous Sat Jun 23 09:33:20 2018 No.9826359

>>9817309
$35k debt at a really good rate and getting a career starting at $50+/year and having an education was much better for me than starting from the bottom of society. No networking, no skills and high school diploma meant I needed university to have more money and a better career.

Anonymous Sat Jun 23 09:34:58 2018 No.9826361

>>9826348
The weak fail and the smart succeed :) Let me know when a European country can rival my 260k salary (bay area software engineer) and maybe I'll have a reason to think about your no-name shithole for the first time in my life

>Yuropoor average salary: 18k USD
>Yuropoor cost of living: 4.3x more (taxes, property cost, gasoline cost, etc)

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 09:57:44 2018 No.9826383 >>9826213 Enjoy your 50+% income taxes FOR LIFE lmao. I'm not even american but you are myopic as fuck.

Anonymous Sat Jun 23 10:08:47 2018 No.9826396

>>9817309
It's not hard if you plan and live your life correctly.

1. Get a degree in something with good job prospects, actually study what the process is like to get your target job before going to college expecting to get it.
2. Choose a school within your means and live frugally.
3. Graduate and live frugally even after you get the job.
4. Pay of debnts while living frugally.
5. Now you have some economic freedom. If you tried to settle down and have kids before this step you have no one to blame but yourself.

Anonymous Sat Jun 23 10:09:23 2018 No.9826397

Europeans talk about American tuition costs as if they make us worse off financially than them

Do you guys not understand the difference in pay is that big? You could be *paid* a really substantial amount per year to attend uni in Europe and it would still leave you worse off than America because the job waiting for you at the end pays peanuts

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 14:12:43 2018 No.9826711 >>9826180 The "protection" racket is an objectively good thing too. Its an incredible motivator and a boomin industry. >>9826226 >only the best of the best deserve a comfortable life hmmm

Anonymous Sat Jun 23 14:31:57 2018 No.9826745

>>9826711
The ability for people to borrow easily for higher education leads to more money being allocated to research institutions than Europe has, all while facilitating 'education level' mobility. High cost =/= bad. Access to student loans in America is genuinely impressive and a serious benefit to anyone who cares about the progress of academic research

>only the best of the best deserve a comfortable life
So what bitch? This isn't an issue for me. Donate all your savings to charity too and try to convince yourself it makes you happier because you Europeans are "nicer" than those mean, mean Americans who keep money for themselves. I don't care man, I worry about my own life and my own finances

Anonymous Sat Jun 23 14:39:37 2018 No.9826747

>>9826396
>1. Get a degree in something with good job prospects, actually study what the process is like to get your target job before going to college expecting to get it.
I have a PhD in ME, and I applied for positions that perfectly aligned with what I did. I even modified my resume to further emphasize that and never got a response. The only reason why I was able to get a job is because I got a referral.

Anonymous Sat Jun 23 15:28:33 2018 No.9826825
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>>9826361
You're proving my point again you fucking 1%er. I'm not talking to snakes like you I'm talking to the more normal actual humans. But in the end it doesn't really matter.

>>9826711
>>only the best of the best deserve a comfortable life
Nobody deserves a comfortable life desu.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 15:33:01 2018 No.9826836 >>9822066 some of you are alright, don't go to Brody tomorrow

Anonymous Sat Jun 23 15:50:27 2018 No.9826862

>>9826825
>Nobody deserves a comfortable life desu.
I'm not saying they do. "Deserve" is a concept that the ideology of prevailing conditions injects into everyday life as a smokescreen for their inherent shortcomings. Not allowed an avenue for the secure fulfillment of your basic needs? It doesn't count because you're not among "the best of the best," and furthermore, you ought not to change anything -systemic- to be more in line with your rational self-interest or that of the broad majority.
It's like when Jordan Peterson nakedly asserts that being perfectly well-adjusted to the current way of things is some absolute prerequisite for changing them. Of course if everyone agreed with that, we never would have gotten the civil rights movement or the eight hour day/forty hour week. It's just special pleading for the status quo, like this "best of the best" things-are-working-very-well-for-those-for-whom-things-are-working-very-well crap

Anonymous Sat Jun 23 15:53:07 2018 No.9826864
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>>9826348
>Yuropoors unable to afford basic necessities like a third summer house or a new Tesla so somehow they're more something something "justice" something something "ethics"

Different strokes for different folks lol

Anonymous Sat Jun 23 16:16:16 2018 No.9826903

>>9826864
Yeah desu. If I really wanted to make money I wouldn't give a shit about paying 50% taxes instead of 25%.
If I want to make real money I'll start a business which usually have a flat tax. Being a wageslave can only get you so far. Arguing about this stuff is pointless. We're talking about scraps of money.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 17:33:44 2018 No.9827066 >>9818398 most people's entire families wouldn't have a combined wealth of 1 million, let alone 3

Anonymous Sat Jun 23 18:39:07 2018 No.9827126

>don't do research on something that's significant
>get sad and angry, then blame others for it
Don't get me wrong, student debt is pretty touchy but if you're that much of an idiot to not mitigate it then you deserve it

College guarantees you one thing and that's a diploma, it's up to the student to market themselves and not fuck up their chances of getting job connections by being an absolute autist in their day to day campus life

>>9817392
What is ROI
What is having enough brain cells to not do something that fucks you over

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 21:13:57 2018 No.9827364 >>9825241 >age 15 >first kiss i-is that so?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 23 21:59:12 2018 No.9827427 >>9820495 I'm surprised Hungary is so low. Those fuckers are pretty good at combinatorics, unless they bail on local uni's for funding perhaps.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 03:37:14 2018 No.9827940 >>9827427 gomboc

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 13:57:27 2018 No.9828568 >>9826361 >The weak fail and the smart succeed Demonstrably false, you can easily imagine scenarios wherein a very intelligent person gets fucked up the ass because of factors out of their control. You are a larping 16 year old.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 14:59:21 2018 No.9828682 >>9828568 This

Anonymous Sun Jun 24 15:11:18 2018 No.9828698

Even spain is more poor friendly.

My brother is almost done with the third year and he got paid for attending, 1500€/year as long as he grades above 7,5

Not bad for a third world country.

That being said, it's almost useless, there is an average of 600 people aplying per job offering in his field, and the average salary being offered is around 15-18k/year. I mean, I earned twice that much in my first job, and I never set foot near college.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 15:13:25 2018 No.9828705 >>9828568 Uh huh. Let me guess, you're one of those self-proclaimed "smart under-achievers" right?

Anonymous Sun Jun 24 15:13:30 2018 No.9828706

>>9817383
as someone working a fast food job, while attending a 4 year university, i find it hard to disagree. but i disagree with the attitudes of those people who say "i've poured half of my life into this degree, i deserve to get money for it." if you get a shitty degree that wont make you the money you need, thats your fault, whether its from ignorance or anything else. honestly, if money is what you need, pick up a trade schools job. a stem degree is just a hard road to go down, finacially and mentally. if youre not up for it, maybe you don't deserve it, is what i say.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 15:18:30 2018 No.9828714 >>9818339 a free market would fix things, if americans were smart enough to make the proper decisions and that market was truely free.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 15:19:26 2018 No.9828719 If you can't pay back your debt in one year or two then your degree was pretty much useless

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 15:21:38 2018 No.9828725 >>9818387 >americans proudly proclaim their superiority in all things who are you quoting. sure there are some who think that, but they're no better than the ones that rag on americans for gun control while getting rammed by trucks of peace.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 24 22:36:45 2018 No.9829401 >>9828705 If you are born into a broken home in a crime ridden neighbourhood with absentee parents it doesnt matter how smart you are. You are retarded.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 00:33:33 2018 No.9829606 File: 22 KB, 380x250, back-to-pol-9.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9819553 >I agree -- but now I'm backpedaling ...so pedal yourself back to /pol/

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 07:51:39 2018 No.9830061 >>9819635 Yes, that's what I did

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 18:01:45 2018 No.9830970 >>9818412 Stop posting.

Anonymous Mon Jun 25 21:48:39 2018 No.9831283
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>>9817309
>be me
>go to community college
>invest during in btc because a whale told me that it and eth would moon in early 2017
>have no debt
>work part time job at a computer hardware store
>It pays 12.50+comission
>gpu craze happens around the spring of that year
>each gpu sold is 5% comission of its original price
>sell every gpu
>learn about nicehash
>put in my old 970s with my 1080ti and ryzen cpu
>get around an extra 400 dollars a month from mining eth which gets translated into btc to my wallet
>earn around 4k a month for like the rest of spring and summer
>notbad.jpeg
>also begin investing 300 or so dollars off every paycheck I earned
>sit around 50 eth and 6 btc
>hodl until december
>see btc is peaking and not growing as fast and how the (((EU))) wants to regulate it
>pullout.exe
>am in native country at the time for break
>cash out asap with a local bank in ukraine
>exchange rate kinda shit
>still a net gain of 6 figs with no payment to the irs
>get scholarships and financial aid to cover most of the rest of my degree
>only have to pay like 15k total for the rest of my CS degree
>fast-forward to now 1 year left till I finish
>bought a 370z
>still 50k in the bank
>comfy.jpeg

You have to be a brainlet to be in debt.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 21:54:01 2018 No.9831292 >>9831283 Also, >in silicon valley >6 figure salary meme is true >notbad.jpeg >inb4salty/sci/tards.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 21:59:12 2018 No.9831307 >>9831283 >pol >meme spammer >anime There are very, very few people less intelligent than you are. This fact will catch up with you eventually.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 22:01:42 2018 No.9831312 File: 193 KB, 365x470, c84.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9831307 >pol

Anonymous Mon Jun 25 22:02:56 2018 No.9831315

>>9831283
Brodie you're not that rich lol, turn down that smug

Most people I know are better off than this simply because they worked a real (read: not high school diploma) level job as they were earning their degree. You're supposed to have 50k in the bank before you graduate as a 21 year-old, not some 29 yo boomer who wasted time in a community college and worked for peanuts in a hardware store

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 22:06:42 2018 No.9831324 File: 71 KB, 227x226, SmugNeet2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9831315 >21 >am currently in an internship as a front-end >when I finish this year they pay a bonus with stock options >70k

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 22:07:49 2018 No.9831327 >>9831315 >one stupid as fuck neckbeard tries to get under the skin of another

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 22:10:47 2018 No.9831334 File: 24 KB, 400x400, heh.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9831324 >70k Lmao. How's life on foodstamps? Is it really as bad as it sounds?

Anonymous Mon Jun 25 22:11:53 2018 No.9831337

The problem with kids is that they don't understand the real, working world or how to weight cost/benefit when looking at majors and how much it is going to put them in debt.

70% of common majors today are essentially useless and they would be better served starting entry level work in a field.

Even in STEM, if you aren't doing something postgrad there is no reason to get a Biology or Chemistry degree.

Even as a CS grad, I could have learned everything and been done with it in 1-2 years realistically, but they had to stretch it out for 4.5 with their bullshit gen eds, electives, and spread out schedule. Ok I lied a little, I didn't want to graduate early and liked partying.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 22:16:01 2018 No.9831343 >>9831334 Not bad gonna travel to the land of the nippons this summer and fuck some qt3.14 jap at a redlight district.

Anonymous Mon Jun 25 22:17:24 2018 No.9831345

>>9831337
>70% of common majors today are essentially useless and they would be better served starting entry level work in a field.

[citation needed]

every metric; happiness, higher total earnings, low unemployment, health, low divorce rate.. are all positively correlated with having ANY college degree.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 22:19:46 2018 No.9831353 File: 82 KB, 380x349, 59b.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9831337 >boomer

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 22:24:49 2018 No.9831365 File: 25 KB, 472x461, f.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9831343 You know what anon, you're not so bad after all. I'm proud of you. Have fun in the East brother

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 22:26:45 2018 No.9831369 >>9831343 >Japan >needing to go to a Redlight district are you a %56 goblin? if you are white and not a manlet, you will have jap pussy falling out of your pockets.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 22:29:05 2018 No.9831373 >>9831343 gg >(good guy)

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 22:31:11 2018 No.9831375 >>9831343 gg >good goy

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 22:31:11 2018 No.9831376 >>9831369 No, I just want to have some fun with like an orgy and some fisting lol.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 22:34:33 2018 No.9831383 >>9831376 oh in that case i would go to thailand instead. not saying you won't be able to find what your looking for in Nippon but for the price you'd pay you are better off just buying a ticket to pattaya or bangkok.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 22:36:36 2018 No.9831386 >>9831383 Not feeling thailand, shits hot as fuck and I like the Japan a e s t h e t i c.

Anonymous Mon Jun 25 22:44:50 2018 No.9831391

>>9831386
i feel you on both of those, thats why i'm saying go to Japan and take a weekend in Pattaya or something. for the same amount of coin you are going to spend trying to finagle some high level fun in Tokyo or Fukuoka you could buy the 3 hour plane ticket and get a dope af suite in Pattaya.

you will remember these words as you drunkenly stumble around the streets of Tenjin wondering why you aren't having the amazing fisting orgy you were so set on.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 22:50:45 2018 No.9831398 >>9831391 I am willing to spend a good chunk of cash, maybe I'll think about it if I feel like it but Japanese >>>>>>Thai.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 22:57:16 2018 No.9831411 File: 29 KB, 633x758, what the fuck man.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >student debt solidarity post >rich kids hijack thread to discuss mega savings and sex vacations

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 22:59:41 2018 No.9831415 >>9831398 >Japanese >>>>>>Thai agreed, i'm just speaking from experience. i lived in japan for a year and never found a place that offered what you are looking for, even when i was slinging big money around. good luck tho, have fun.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 23:30:02 2018 No.9831459 I don't know where to post this, but I was wondering what is up with the cost of deep cycle batteries? Lead and sulfuric acid are cheap as hell and I don't know if there is something hidden in the materials that jacks up the price.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 23:32:00 2018 No.9831461 >>9831459 thats a /diy/ question bub

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 23:32:16 2018 No.9831462 >>9831345 In the modern era? You can't look at it retroactively. A degree meant more even 10 years ago. Now there are so many that it is as good as toilet paper from most institutions.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 23:32:48 2018 No.9831466 >>9831461 Oh sorry I'll go there.

Anonymous Mon Jun 25 23:43:59 2018 No.9831475

>>9831462
>In the modern era?
particularly in this instance of the modern era if you are serious about not looking retroactively. unemployment is low as fuck right now and its always been significantly lower for degree holders. jobs in your field of study is what people complain about being scarce.

Anonymous Mon Jun 25 23:46:03 2018 No.9831481

>>9831475

My point was when they draw correlations like that they look across the workforce. The demographic aged 30-65 enjoyed much greater negotiating power with their degrees than current grads are experiencing.

Unemployment is low, yes, but wages have stagnated for most earning levels outside of the top 10%.

I can attest to it firsthand, my friends are mostly under or unemployed with meme degrees like Biochem or Psychology.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 25 23:49:36 2018 No.9831488 >>9823939 Damn straight, as long as you aren't a dumbass or socially retarded it's pretty comfy here

Anonymous Tue Jun 26 00:02:51 2018 No.9831507

>>9831481
>>9831481
>I can attest to it firsthand, my friends are mostly under or unemployed with meme degrees like Biochem or Psychology.

they're smart guys, i bet they'll figure it out.

i argue that college has better equipped them for work in any kind of professional capacity and that the act of learning for 4 years has improved their ability to critically think and solve problems.

Anonymous Tue Jun 26 00:14:02 2018 No.9831522

>>9831507

True, but as I said, cost/benefit wise? Smart people can figure things out regardless, without taking on a ton of debt or wasting time. Maybe some people need the structured learning environment but there are plenty who waste time on a meme degree spending a lot of money to accomplish less than they could have just hammering entry level postings and reading up on a chosen industry.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 00:23:54 2018 No.9831539 >>9831507 What's wrong with biochem? I mean yeah you'll need to go on to get a masters or doctorate if you want a big-boy career, but its a great stepping stone. You can easily live middle class with a biochem bachelors degree.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 00:25:17 2018 No.9831540 >>9831411 Don't worry brother they're LARPing

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 00:50:26 2018 No.9831578 >>9821350 Merced?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 00:52:21 2018 No.9831581 >>9831522 there hasn't been a single person i've met who didn't become a better person by going to college. whats that worth to you?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 01:05:32 2018 No.9831609 >>9831459 Antimony, it's expensive

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 01:11:06 2018 No.9831627 >>9817309 I don't really give a shit to be honest. Worst case scenario, I'll fucking kill myself. I genuinely don't care about debt.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 05:08:42 2018 No.9831918 >>9825241 >40's >40k a year >with kids lmao d00d

Anonymous Tue Jun 26 13:24:44 2018 No.9832606

>>9831315
>real (read: not high school diploma) level job
> You're supposed to have 50k in the bank before you graduate as a 21 year-old
How do you propose to get a job that pays decently with no education? How do you propose you work 40 hours a week under normal hours and still go to class? I guess you also dont pay taxes.

You need to be 18+ to post on this board.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 13:32:04 2018 No.9832622 >>9831337 >The only reason to seek higher education is earning potential This is your brain on America people

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 26 21:48:08 2018 No.9833466 >>9817309 >Be smart, get good grades and join club or sports team. >Work during HS. >Go to flagship state school on scholarship. >Get job at Uni library. >Graduate with no debt!!

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 27 10:31:31 2018 No.9834454 >>9817433 Hello fellow Georgian, I see our superiority goes without conflict. Good day!

Anonymous Wed Jun 27 12:58:08 2018 No.9834671

The general globalist goal is creating a population of perfect, dispossessed consumers with no actual property of their own, just temporary possessions based on credit, with no long-term goals beyond a few months of consumption and no ability to survive if cut off from the state or their employer, i.e. the polar opposite of a financially independent middle class* secure enough to pursue their own goals.

IMPORTANT NOTE to Yanks who believe middle class = middle of the income distribution:

If you don't own a property/business or work for a salary and couldn't afford to retire and live off what you already own, you are NOT middle class in the only relevant sense of the term.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 27 14:57:19 2018 No.9834882 >>9834671 It's still a capitalist society. Just because stacy is getting a $20,000 car loan on a $12,000 min-wage job doesn't mean you can't start an immensely profitable buisness.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 27 16:51:11 2018 No.9835043 File: 3.04 MB, 2084x896, mates.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9817309 .

Anonymous Thu Jun 28 00:21:35 2018 No.9835748

>>9834671

The thing is there is no goal or end stage here. The present situation with student loans and tuition prices exist because nobody wants to step in and either properly fund universities (as they once did), properly fund K12s so HS diplomas are not worthless (as they once were), or allow students with debt to declare bankruptcy (causing the free market to fix itself as banks tell schools to get costs into line).

As things stand it's a situation similar to the 00s housing market, everyone thought mortgages were safe investments until one day a backend technicality left investors with nothing causing banks to collapse as they pulled out. Everyone knows shit smells with student loans but nobody has enough power to fix it.

Anonymous Thu Jun 28 04:42:00 2018 No.9835997

>>9834882
It becomes increasingly difficult to start new businesses due to regulatory load which increases the barrier to entry. The number of employers is falling and the number of employees is rising every year.

>immensely profitable buisness
The rare individuals to launch hugely successful businesses (particularly in new sectors, where it doesn't directly compete with or impact the profits of existing players) can just be co-opted into existing power structures.

You cannot have a free society capable of pursuing their own goals and agendas without a large property-owning "middle" class, i.e. a large sector of the population financially independent enough to not have their day-to-day livelihood depend on maintaining a submissive relationship with creditors, their employer, or state institutions.

>>9835748
You've not read or understood my post. Making sure most of the population is in lifelong debt *IS THE GOAL*.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 28 07:10:36 2018 No.9836116 >>9835997 >using class to refer to one's position in the social relations surrounding production and relationship to the means of production instead of income bracket yeah okay comrade lmao

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 28 13:00:12 2018 No.9836532 >>9836116 >literally every brit ever is a communist ???

Anonymous Thu Jun 28 22:23:34 2018 No.9837393

>>9819583
Note that as years go by you are expected to have higher education degrees along with another set of skills that also keeps increasing such as languages and know how to use the different electronic devicices that keep coming just as tuition fees keep getting higher in the USA

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 28 23:45:41 2018 No.9837486 >>9836532 Well you have the NHS, which is an example of "the government doing stuff" and so falls under my special definition of communism. And if you object to that definition I'll call you a postmodernist

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 06:04:57 2018 No.9837914 >>9821243 >when that amount of money is on the table I guarantee you there isn't a single person on earth who would not be corrupted by it. I would burn it

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 06:06:50 2018 No.9837919 >>9817309 >Is accruing $40k-$60k in debt worth acquiring a degree in the current job market, even if it's in a STEM field? No. If you have a full bursary even it might not be worth 3-4 years in lost potential income.

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