/sci/ - Science & Math

[Brandon !!tbkOPmI7bEB No.9799865]

Is Computer Science a true science? Why does it receive so much hate on this board?

[Anonymous No.9799872]

>Is Computer Science a true science?
No, because computer scientists do not use the scientific method.

[Anonymous No.9799874]

>>9799865
Everyone else is insecure about their job prospects.

t, not a computer scientist

[Anonymous No.9799878]

>>9799865

[Anonymous No.9799883]

>>9799865
Are you that /mu/ tripfag?

[Brandon !!tbkOPmI7bEB No.9799884]

>>9799874
Yeah, this was my thinking. You’d think /sci/ would be more partial to CS considering that it’s very close to pure mathematics.

[Brandon !!tbkOPmI7bEB No.9799888]

>>9799878
>Sweeping generalizations are fact

[Brandon !!tbkOPmI7bEB No.9799891]

>>9799883
No. Never been on /mu/

[Anonymous No.9799900]

>>9799874
>implying you need a cs degree to get a programming job

[Anonymous No.9799903]

>>9799884
>CS considering that it’s very close to pure mathematics.
Mathematics is a subcategory of CS.

[Anonymous No.9799905]

>>9799884
>considering that it’s very close to pure mathematics

0/b8

[Anonymous No.9799910]

>>9799900
Now you tell me how someone with a Ceramics degree could do a better programming job than a CS major. You have 6 hours.

[Anonymous No.9799916]

>>9799872
It definitely does. The scientific method applies to software development 1:1. CS uses the scientific method much more than other fields which are conventionally considered a science (Chem, Psych (lol), Theoretical Physics).
>>9799865
Remove your tripcode.
>>9799900
>one example of a job that doesn't require it
>thus no jobs require it

[Anonymous No.9799921]

>>9799910
Because any STEM major can learn how to code monkey and BigOh on the job.

Meanwhile after 4 year of supposedly learning it, 99.5% of cs majors can't fizzbuzz.

[Anonymous No.9799923]

>>9799900
>I have a really big ego and think I'm smarter than everyone else, therefore I will get hired for a job that I'm not qualified for

[Anonymous No.9799925]

>>9799921
Engie detected. You fags think Quaternions are hard.

[Anonymous No.9799946]

>>9799865
No not at all.

>>9799916
>The scientific method applies to software development

Not in the slightest. Debugging comes close, but if you are the person who wrote the code there won't be any scientific method beyond a couple moments' thought and making weird faces.

>>9799900
>>9799923
I didn't need one to get a job in programming. All I needed were some certifications which are have nothing to do with the degrees since they are done by a 3rd party. The classes are just for people who need to learn it and can't self-educate. Of course some degrees have courses that teach you what you need to know when you take the 3rd party certification tests. Sometimes the tuition costs will include the cert test costs. Because all the 3rd party certs cost quite a bit of money to take the tests. They are essentially pay-to-win in that manner since the cert tests themselves are fucking retarded level easy.

[Anonymous No.9799950]

>>9799946
What certs?

[Anonymous No.9799962]

>>9799921
The solution in that image isn’t even that bad. Of course doing a double iteration and having a single if else statement for printing * vs ‘ ‘ is ideal, but what got put there is how I’d be tempted to do it if I was rushed.

[Anonymous No.9799976]

>>9799923
Look around, nearly half of working programmers have degrees outside of cs.

[Anonymous No.9799986]

>>9799925
No, that's cs majors in their CG courses.

[Anonymous No.9799997]

>>9799950
Go for as many as you can afford to take. Just brush up and study hard before hand. The more you pile on the more the government agencies will want you. Once you get a certain amount, there's a good chance you'll get approached, but you need to be in their system first. So, apply in a few places. Get them for hardware and software. Get stuff like Cisco CCENT, CCNA for hardware then MCSD, Oracle, well, I'm not listing everything since each has sub-certs and all that shit. Just get a well-rounded hardware and software line up of certs for the areas you want to do work in. The reason for both is because it gives you a nice mental map of how everything works together in the workplace, makes you more valuable, and more versatile.

The ones I got were just for general networking, repair, C++, databasing, and low key web scripting bullshit. Keep in mind that was nearly 20 years now. Shit has changed a lot since then and there's like over 9000 certs to choose from now. Fuck that though, I'm retired.

[Anonymous No.9799998]

>>9799910
The same reason why you would hire an EE to be an audio engineer rather than a musician.

[Brandon !!tbkOPmI7bEB No.9800032]

>>9799986
>hating CS this much

Why?

[Anonymous No.9800041]

The way I see it is that CS is a science within itself unless you're dealing with the mechanisms by which the physical hardware works (in which case you're more in the territory of the physical sciences or engineering).

[Anonymous No.9800063]

>>9799878
this guy clearly went to a bottom tier school.

[Anonymous No.9800085]

>>9800063

All cs programs (in america) are shit tier. There are only a few international schools that are half decent.

[Anonymous No.9800090]

>>9800085
t. high school student who thinks he's smart because he's in honors math

[Anonymous No.9800105]

>>9800032
Have you ever met the brainlets? None of them care about any of their coursework nor can they solve even the simplest of problems. Utter trash.

Just look at how many of them can't do basic calculus >>>/g/66167420

[Anonymous No.9800107]

>>9800090
>t. brainlet that struggled in his discrete "math" courses

[Anonymous No.9800129]

/sci/ is full of people that unironically think they're Sheldon Cooper

[Anonymous No.9800144]

>>9799878
This is true, in my experience. I truly, truly wish I was doing a different degree, but I'm 2 years in and I think it's too late.

[Anonymous No.9800160]

>>9800129
>Sheldon Cooper

Who?

[Anonymous No.9800162]

>>9800144
Switch.

[Anonymous No.9800171]

>>9800160
bazinga

[Anonymous No.9800185]

>>9800144
Don't listen to >>9800162

Computer Science is a highly mathematical degree that makes you exceptionally marketable. Do certifications make you more marketable? Yes. Can you become a programmer without getting a CS degree? Yes.

But being a programmer is not the same as being a computer scientist.

If you're interested at all in logic, proofs, data, and the actual SCIENCE of computing, you'll need a CS degree to even consider pursuing these endeavors. Wanna do research? Yep, gonna need a degree for that as well. It's true that code monkeys do not necessarily need a CS degree, but most CS majors aren't intending to just be code monkeys - they want to be engineers or actual scientists.

So, no. Your CS degree is not worthless and it's just as valuable as any degree these edgy Richard Dawkins/Jordan Peterson high school fucks think is "worth your time". Stop listening to the advice of people on 4chan who claim to be hyper genius physics majors but probably sit in their parent's basement playing video games and watching YouTube documentaries all day.

[Anonymous No.9800191]

>>9799865
>Why does it receive so much hate on this board?
Presumably because it attracts chronic underachievers who're only interested because they spend all their free time playing video games.

[Anonymous No.9800197]

>>9799865
From what I've seen on this board the hate is on CS degrees more than the concept of CS. Won't bother explaining the former since many people already have.

[Anonymous No.9800201]

>>9800191
You're describing retards who think CS is "just programming" and will get burnt out within the first term, if not sooner.

People who actually research the expectations of CS majors and have a legitimate inclination for math are not among these people.

[Anonymous No.9800213]

>>9799865
being a programmer is the same thing as being a kindergarten teacher except youre handling autistic kids with no self awareness and not the most intelligent specie on the planet

[Brandon tbkOPmI7bEB No.9800221]

>>9800213
fuck you
fuck you
fuck you
fuck you

[Brandon !!tbkOPmI7bEB No.9800224]

>>9800221
How do trips work? :thinking:

[Anonymous No.9800346]

>>9799865
We have this thread everyday. While everyone and their mother wants a CS degree for its advertised employment opportunities, at its heart as an academic pursuit it is fine. Your mileage as an undergrad may vary, but in my experience, double majoring in math and CS at a top 20 US school for those two subjects, it has been fine.

The problem arises when we try to have discussions on CS as academics and people but in with CS as a vocational interest; the field is young enough that both your high level cryptography, system development, and high performance jobs are in the same sort of tier as your entry level "just organize the info using objects and then you're done" jobs. I shouldn't have to explain to a board full of self proclaimed geniuses why this is a stupid idea.

If we're gonna talk about CS as an academic field, then there are some parts of it where the systems we've made are so complex that understanding behavior is an exercise in both proofwriting and experiments with associated papers (resource allocation and solving starvation and priority inversion comes to mind) aren't actually uncommon. It's a fine field, but because it's so wide, you'd be better off double majoring in CS and math so grad school doesn't hit you like a load of bricks when you have to draw from so many other disciplines of math.

[Anonymous No.9800361]

>>9800185
>Computer Science is a highly mathematical degree

see >>9799905

[Anonymous No.9800417]

>>9799905
Fuck it, I'll take the bait
>merge sort
Nobody talks about mergesort anymore. These days, algorithms are being made to understand distribution, efficient streams, hardness of approximation, etc.

>use advanced discrete mathematics
CS uses a lot of continuous mathematics. Backpropagation from machine learning uses gradient descent and methods from vector calculus. Computer vision, genetic algorithms, optimization, etc., all use much more than discrete math

>mathematical induction to prove program correctness
While this is true, it's super basic and a freshman/sophomore exercise. The harder problem is writing an algorithm to prove general correctness

>uses far more mathematics than any engineering discipline or cience, including physics
Anyone who claims this is stupid. CS is the name of a mathematical field, but it's not "inherently" more mathematical, even if it can address pretty pure subjects

>proper superset of pure math
controversial and in my opinion, untrue. It's just there to stir up shitposts

[Anonymous No.9800468]

>>9800417
>and in my opinion, untrue
Why is that?

[Brandon !!tbkOPmI7bEB No.9800489]

>>9800417
>controversial and in my opinion, untrue. It's just there to stir up shitposts

Pure Computer Science is literally just math, though.

[Anonymous No.9800504]

>>9800468
I believe computer science is very close and more or less math, but I don't believe that computer science is a superset of math. Our computational model has limitations on the types of problems it can solve (that interestingly enough parallel the limitations of what our mathematics can solve). I don't have a rigorous argument, but I don't think I've encountered a subject in computer science that can be described as a CS concept and not a mathematical concept. I can see people calling CS a subset or finding a relation to math such that CS is an equivalent method of approaching mathematics (much in the same ways that the Curry-Howard Isomorphism talks about the relationship between proofs and programs being the same class of mathematical objects), but I don't see the set of all math (if it can even be described by a set) properly contained within CS.

t. grad from computer science + math double major

>>9800489
I'm not arguing with you. Even some of the more impure computer science is math (again, think applied methods in machine learning). I don't think computer science is a proper superset

[Anonymous No.9800506]

>>9800489
>Pure Computer Science is literally just math
Other way around.

[Anonymous No.9800507]

>>9800417
Spoiler: Everything the blue guy says is stupid. That's the whole point.

[Anonymous No.9800515]

I think this thread answers OP's question. No, computer science is not science, it is an application of mathematics. Math is also not a science.

[Anonymous No.9800521]

>>9799884
Isn't every real science close to pure mathematics? Even statistics is close to pure mathematics and it's 89.7% bullshit.

[Anonymous No.9800531]

>>9799903
other way around

[Anonymous No.9800540]

>>9799865
There's no such thing as "computer science". It's math. Computer science doesnt exist at all, it's literally all math, and any degree in "computer science" worth anything could just be considered a double major in pure mathematics and "computer science" (which again, doesn't exist).

[Anonymous No.9800656]

[Anonymous No.9800659]

>>9800656
If anything, this is evidence that demonstrates how the general public doesn’t know what CS entails. This then produces undergrads who go into a field they really wouldn’t sign up for otherwise, and subsequently, we get /sci/ outbursts about stupid CS majors.

[Anonymous No.9800670]

>>9799865
you are answering your own question.

[Anonymous No.9800680]

>>9800659
>they think cs is programming deflection

CS ""math/theory"" is a joke and that's why we mock you. It was never about the programming.

[Anonymous No.9800682]

>>9800680
But cs majors suck at programming. That is an undeniable fact.

[Anonymous No.9800686]

>>9800680
This is bait, but have you picked up a CS book past that stupid freshman Rosen book that gets passed around? I agree that a lot of CS undergrad programs are lacking, but any look at a springer book or any late undergrad/grad book is all the evidence you need.

[Anonymous No.9800692]

>>9800682
Depends. The ones that spring for the productivity meme classes (software engineering comes to mind) usually write garbage. However, I’ve seen a lot of clever stuff come out of the people who take OS and systems level design.

[Anonymous No.9800703]

>>9800680
Wait those books aren’t about programming. Those are literally IT support manuals. He didn’t mention programming even once.

[Anonymous No.9800757]

>>9800361
Depends on the type of your CS program man.
There's the joint math/CS or the double major of math and CS as well.

[Anonymous No.9800782]

>>9800757
Honestly, I love being a double major in both (our CS program is pretty rigorous nonetheless). It’s especially nice to get high grades and research opportunities in both. While entry level programming and running undergrad scientific simulations is easy peasy, I’ve seen math majors writing code...and it’s not pretty. Interestingly enough, they seem to tout the “well if it works, it works” mentality they usually bash engineers over the head with. The irony is that usually, both in principle and in practice, their code doesn’t work.

[Anonymous No.9800796]

>>9800107
WTF
Only chapter 10 onwards is even remotely interesting.

[Anonymous No.9800801]

>>9800796
It’s a freshman book anon. And even then, a good amount of places don’t even use it. For my equivalent course, my professor taught from his notes and occasionally scanned pages of problems from that book for some practice.

[Anonymous No.9800833]

>>9799946
>Computer Science is writing codes

It's like saying chemistry is about cooking chemicals.

[Anonymous No.9800837]

>>9800782
>well if it works, it works
yeah I don't like that mentality as well.
Also our regular CS program is filled with a year's worth of shitty electives, that's why I decided to do a joint degree...

[Anonymous No.9801031]

>>9799865
Maybe yes, maybe no.
I would distinguish between two types of cs. The first is the actual problem solving aspect of the field. The second would be the mindless translation that is done between languages or getting one piece of software/hardware to communicate with another piece of software/hardware. The problem solving is where the science takes place and the mindless translation is the grunt work that glues the thing together.
As >>9799916 mentions, the scientific method can be broadly applied to any type of problem solving so technically cs would be considered science along with every other type of goal-driven pursuit.

At the same time, I would like to point out that one of the things that makes science a powerful tool is the DOCUMENTATION of what works and what doesn't. The documentation makes the process way more efficient by allowing the practitioners to avoid doing redundant work. I wonder how much time is wasted by people reinventing the wheel or pursing a dead-end that somebody has already found. This trait is not a characteristic of cs itself (academia still documents its findings) but it is a by-product of private sector competition which plagues many other areas of intellectual pursuit as well.

TL;DR It does utilize the scientific method but the competitive private sector implementation removes the efficiency gained from documentation that makes the scientific method praiseworthy in the first place.

[Anonymous No.9801038]

What a surprise that a non natural science based on mathematics doesn't operate with the scincetific method.

[Brandon !!tbkOPmI7bEB No.9801296]

>>9800515
But it belongs on /sci/, then. This is a board for science and mathematics.

[Anonymous No.9801443]

>>9801296
Math is not a naturual science. But it is still a science.

[Anonymous No.9801445]

>>9801296
Even Chemistry has more math in it than CS.

>>>/g/tfo

[Brandon !!tbkOPmI7bEB No.9801570]

>>9801445
lol no.

[Anonymous No.9801888]

[Anonymous No.9802006]

>>9800796
That's retarded baby's first graph theory. Just skip to Bollobas if you want to learn it.

[Anonymous No.9802012]

>>9801570
sorry to break it to you but he is correct. even many biochemists (brianlets of chemistry) are more proficient in math than cs, utilizing diff. equations, linear algebra, etc All the cs kids I knew barely passed calc II

[Anonymous No.9802349]

>>9799872
>He thinks there is a discretely definable scientific methodology
>not a set of methods that we shrug at and loosely say they are scientific

Oh I'm laughing.

[Anonymous No.9802436]

>>9799874
>durr ur just jelus
even the math professors at my undergrad used to bully CS majors, it was funny to watch. we hate you because you're retarded.

[Anonymous No.9802457]

Computer science is mostly math and doesn't really involve computers other than for implementation.

Issue is most people have a shit opinion because universities teach it like a trade until the graduate level.

It's like if chemists did their undergraduate to learn how to cook in a restaurant and then universities started making chemistry more food related. Doesn't make chemistry a fake science just makes universities teaching it that way stupid

[Anonymous No.9802580]

>>9802457
This is hilarious and sad. You're so desperate to make CS sound math intensive youre willing to say "computer science doesn't involve computers".

That's like if I said "chemistry doesn't really involve chemicals" or "physics doesn't really involve physics". CS is not math. CS is not a natural science. Any "science" that has the word "science" in it is not really a science, for example political science

[Anonymous No.9802715]

>>9802580

Considering a lot of the work in the field was done before we had the ability to build computers, you might want to rethink that argument.

I mean one can make the argument computer science is really a discipline of math and not it's own thing.

I'm not overly concerned either way.

[Anonymous No.9802731]

>>9802580
...no, literally, computer science is a name that's used to refer to math that describes automation, computational framework that underlies the actual a phenomenon, algorithms to describe it, etc. People care about modern computers because they can implement (albeit with finite memory) turing machine models of programs. Literally look at this book for late undergrads/early grads in CS:
http://algo.inria.fr/flajolet/Publications/book.pdf

It's pretty difficult to argue that math is not a big part of CS research.

CS is not a natural science; that much I agree on. However, political science and computer science aren't apt comparisons, especially since computer science is just a term that points to a school of mathematics that was first explicitly studied around the 1940s

[Anonymous No.9802733]

>>9802731
*the realization of a phenomenon (think generating functions from the symbolic method in combinatorics)
my bad forgot to edit

[Anonymous No.9802763]

>>9802580
>youre willing to say "computer science doesn't involve computers".
>..."other than for implementation"
Nice job cutting off the quote, faggot.

[Anonymous No.9802776]

>>9800085
>All cs programs (in america) are shit tier.
Stop pretending to be retarded, it's not funny.

[Anonymous No.9802779]

>>9801445
>Even Chemistry has more math in it than CS.
How does it feel to be this deluded?

[Anonymous No.9802780]

>>9802580
>CS is not math
But it is.

[Anonymous No.9802782]

>>9802012
>All the cs kids I knew barely passed calc II
That's because you went to a shit-tier school.

[Anonymous No.9802786]

>>9800656
lol

[Anonymous No.9802792]

>>9800105
>None of them care about any of their coursework nor can they solve even the simplest of problems. Utter trash.
I agree this is true of all students at your school. This is why you should've stopped playing videogames and gone to a better one.

[Anonymous No.9802830]

>>9802779
Open up a physical chemistry textbook.

[Anonymous No.9802854]

>>9802830
If and only if you open up an analytical combinatorics book

[Anonymous No.9802929]

>>9799921
#vomit.py
from sys import argv
length = int(argv[1])
top_lines = [(' ' * i) + '*' + (' ' * (length - (2 * i))) + '*'
for i in range(length / 2)]
bot_lines = reversed(top_lines)
middle = (' ' * (length / 2 + 1)) + '*'
print '\n'.join(top_lines)
print middle
print '\n'.join(bot_lines)

[Anonymous No.9802961]

>>9802929
>posting python on sci

CS majors are retarded

[Anonymous No.9802966]

>>9802854
>muh generating functions, so wow
>pay no attention that undergrad cs monkeys don't even learn this shit

[Anonymous No.9803013]

>>9802961
Still better than Matlab.

[Anonymous No.9803018]

>>9803013
No.

[Anonymous No.9803023]

>>9803018
If you think Matlab is good for reasons besides its tooling, you're insane and probably only know a few languages at best.

[Anonymous No.9803055]

>>9802966
This is a late undergrad/early grad book. I dunno about you, but we also had to take at least probability theory for the CS degree, which was both discrete and continuous distributions, associated derivations, moment generating functions,etc etc. It’s hardly the hardest stuff ever (though some of the derivations get nasty), but I wouldn’t call it “brainlet.”

[Anonymous No.9803081]

>>9803023
>t. maximum brainlet

[Anonymous No.9803083]

>>9803055
No measure theory => probability for brainlets

[Anonymous No.9803124]

>>9800659
>If anything, this is evidence that demonstrates how the general public doesn’t know what CS entails.

Ok bud

>General public has no idea and respects CS majors
>People with real degrees have an idea and they mock CS majors

[Anonymous No.9803152]

>>9803124
The general public treats CS majors either like they're IT or 80s movie hackers. Also, I talked about the general public's notion of CS, not CS majors.

I'm not gonna lie. Probably something like 70% of CS majors don't give a shit about math and want some code monkey job, but good schools exist where the 30% who actually want to learn attend and actually learn math.

[Anonymous No.9803161]

>>9799865
Because they are like the jocks of the science world. Better pay for less work and better hours in general. So they get to have their stem degree and bang Stacies on the side and still have a life outside science. Also generally respected more by normies.

Basically most of /sci/ just feels assblasted about getting the shittier end of the stick in the science world and needs to cope the best way they know how.

[Anonymous No.9803480]

>>9799865

It basically a field of math

[Anonymous No.9803554]

>Not liking math means that you're a brainlet

[Anonymous No.9803564]

>>9803554
>not majoring in math makes you a brainlet in /sci/‘s eyes
ftfy

But also CS is math so uh
Buddy if you’re in it for the long haul, then you’re gonna have some problems

[Anonymous No.9804223]

Its funny for me to read that in other places CS undergrad is treated as a trade.

In my eastern euro shithole theres lot of complain that CS is too theoriticial and the Bsc part should aim at people who want to be codemonkeys, and let the higher stuff to masters. The flunkout rate by year 3 is like 75% here.

Most people here dont even go for masters after bsc and land pretty comfy jobs at multional software companies.

Fuck theres such a shortage even if you drop out after 2 years software companies take you up and youll still earn way above what most service economy type who has a some meh 5 year management degree can dream of.

[Anonymous No.9804279]

>>9800489
>Pure Computer Science is literally just math, though.
What is 'pure' Computer Science?

Why the need for so many labels you fucking faggots? 91 percent of /sci/ is bad content, why do you have a need to post this shit on a skateboarding imageboard?

[Brandon !!tbkOPmI7bEB No.9804415]

>>9803081
>haha memes are valid rebuttals

Kill yourself unironically.

[Anonymous No.9804427]

Cs is objectively the hardest degree. Its job prospects are amazing too.

[Anonymous No.9804429]

>>9804427
memes aside you're right. don't let these autists b8 u, if you're good at math and want a high paying job go comp sci

[Brandon !!tbkOPmI7bEB No.9804430]

>>9804429
>allowing autistic neckbeards on 4chan determine your career path

who's this dumb?

[Brandon !!tbkOPmI7bEB No.9804433]

>>9804430
>>9804429
clarification: I agree with you, I'm just saying that the "lol CS brainlet" trolls are probably affecting high school seniors and it's sad

[Anonymous No.9804527]

>>9804279

They mean computer science that is literally just math. The reason people are even having this discussion is because more and more these days cs is taught like a engineering field and people go into the program wanting employable skills.

What most schools teach should really just be a engineering program and more tightly clump computing stuff with the math program.

[Anonymous No.9804532]

>>9804427
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, no.

[Anonymous No.9804534]

>>9804433
>EVERYONE WHO SAYS SOMETHING I DONT LIKE IS A HIGHSCHOOLER

[Anonymous No.9804583]

>>9804534
You can't even read.

[Anonymous No.9804765]

>>9804279
>why do you have a need to post this shit on a skateboarding imageboard?
Because he needs to feel superior, so he convinced himself that he's doing it to "troll those brainlets".

[Anonymous No.9805266]

>>9804527
In my country, CS in an engineering, literally Informatics Engineering

I think that happens in other countries of europoorland too

[Anonymous No.9805312]

>>9799976
Yeah, and 99% of them suck at programming

[Anonymous No.9805313]

>CS
>programming

[Anonymous No.9806471]

>>9805266

Funny at one school I know of they had: computer science: computer engineering AND engineering: computer engineering

[Anonymous No.9806475]

>>9805312

Had the complete opposite experience working in industry.

[Anonymous No.9807218]

>>9799865
CS is basically math++, and a CS graduate is considered élite, capable of mastering in 1 year what math graduates do in 2 years. Deal with it!

World's élite universities (e.g. MIT, Princeton) will tell you right away that as their CS student you are considered the best group they have and that math students go slower than you are, and increase your load to crazy levels As a CS student, you are expected to master (continuous) calculus, discrete calculus (discrete math proofs, hypercubes for parallel algorithms), optimization (machine/deep learning, compilers), category theory (functional programming), logic (up to automated proofs, i.e. including set theory), differential equations, topology (computational geometry, distributed algorithms), probability and statistics (reinforcement learning, queueing), number theory (cryptography), graph theory (almost everywhere)... There is no functional analysis needed yet, but it's heavily used for PhD degrees anyway. You need to know all this down to the level of proving theorems if you want to achieve anything in CS.

[Anonymous No.9807388]

>>9807218
Nice copypasta from last week’s thread

[Anonymous No.9807543]

Okay CS and math double major here at a top 4 school (I think for both despite our bad press). It's generally been true for me and most of the people I know that are also CS / math majors that upper division math courses are harder conceptually and that upper div CS courses are generally harder in terms of workload. That doesn't mean upper div math courses never give a shit ton of problem sets or that every CS course is a walk in the park to understand, but that the general trend leans towards the above.

[Anonymous No.9807647]

>the degree with more math is the better one

Why is /sci/ so dumb?

[Anonymous No.9807727]

>>9799865
>Why does it receive so much hate on this board?
Its one of the only degrees that will get you a real job

[Anonymous No.9807998]

>>9806471
Here is only engineering, not CS
However half of the courses in the BSc are similar to a CS degree but less formal, I had to study almost everything alone and forget a lot of useless SE stuff

[Anonymous No.9808002]

>>9807543
I think it depends on whether the CS course is heavy on implementation or heavy on theory. My algorithms class was comparably as brutal as my real analysis class.

[Anonymous No.9808182]

>>9799986
aren't all turing machines deterministic?

[Anonymous No.9808231]

>>9799921
i used to find these annoying af, but now that my iq is higher (still room temperature IQ) i see you could just detect whatever pattern in each line and have first...last, and apply math at the end of the nested loop to suit your needs :|

int first = 1;
int last = 9;

for (int j = 1; j<10; j++)
{
for (int i = 1; i<10; i++)
{

if (i == first || i == last)
System.out.print("*");
else
System.out.print(" ");
}

first++;
last--;

System.out.println();
}

[Anonymous No.9808244]

>>9808182
NTMs are identical to (D)TMs, except you can specify multiple actions for every given state. It's the same as the difference between NFAs and DFAs. You use nondeterministic steps in the definition of NP and NL, for instance.

[Anonymous No.9808254]

>>9808231
surely nested loops is a horribly inefficient way of doing this?

[Anonymous No.9808274]

>>9808254
of course. but that's how they want you to reproduce these patterns in a first year class