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/sci/ - Science & Math

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9779518 No.9779518 [Reply] [Original]

Is there any scientific reason behind the 8 hour work day?

I go to work and am burnt out after 4-6 hours. Being productive for the full 8 seems impossible. Sitting at work not doing anything is a waste of my time. Why do (((they))) make me waste my day?

>> No.9779522

>>9779518
who is they?

>> No.9779542

>>9779518
Your great grandfather probably did 14 hour shifts in a mine.
The cap on labour hours is nowhere near 6, you're just very low energy.

>> No.9779546
File: 186 KB, 1130x581, pad0r52vg59y.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9779546

>>9779518
>Is there any scientific reason behind the 8 hour work day?
surplus value

>> No.9779637

>>9779546
This is dumb. The value of your work is what you sell it to your boss for. If he gave you what he sold work+capital+resources for then he would have no incentive to sell in the first place and you would have no job.

>> No.9779731

>>9779518
get a new job, ideally one you like

>> No.9779742

>>9779637
Working for someone else doesn't necessarily mean getting bent over every fucking day assholer

>> No.9779744

But OP is still a little bitch. You can't do eight hours? You poor thing. And you're SITTING. fuckin stand up for a minuteand get your blood flowing

>> No.9779844

>>9779742
According to you it does since any profit is theft of "surplus value." By that logic if you buy materials from someone, produce a product, and sell it, you have "stolen" "surplus value" from the person you bought the materials from.

>> No.9779940

>>9779542
That is false. The average number of hours worked has been increasing steadily. Employers are trying to make 50-60 hours a week the new "normal".

>> No.9779956

>>9779518
>I go to work and am burnt out after 4-6 hours.
same
thankfully i am salary desk job and no one really cares as long as i turn around tasks quickly. I end up doing everything in the mornings and "being available" at my desk keeping up appearances for the rest of the day.

>> No.9779966

>>9779844
Have you ever even had a job you little bitch? You're even more of a little bitch than op. I will grant you, the majority of wagecucks are neither good people nor intelligent and actually pretty entitled considering if op is being honest about working 6 out of 8 hours he's actually more productive than the average wagecuck but still, fuck you faggot. When you're boss is loaded and you're getting further behind and you see the crazy money being made every day and you work your ass off and can't even go get a second job because the hours are so crazy and they're still finding any dumb reason to condescend you and make it as if it's your fault when they're the ones screwing you over every shift you won't be of the mindset that it's perfectly moral to exploit your workers far beyond what would be required to earn a decent income yourself you shit on toast

>> No.9779975

>>9779966
>Have you ever even had a job you little bitch?
I'm at work right now, retardo.

>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
You aren't being exploited, your labor is just not worth that much. Otherwise you would have been able to negotiate a better salary. Cry more, it won't justify your nonsense.

>> No.9779989

>boo hoo I don't want to work it's too hard
>know whose fault it is? the JEWS
>according to siens I shouldn't have to work so hard
this generation needs to be cleansed

>> No.9779990

>>9779518
>Why do (((they))) make me waste my day?
They waste your time so that you're too burnt out to actually think clearly and realize what's going on. Once you're out of the workplace the first thing you think about is distracting yourself. But then you have to eat and do the laundry, and go on errands too. You just don't have time left to actually THINK

The rats won.

>> No.9780002

>>9779975
Then get back to work faggot. Obviously it is because I'm the only one who can do the job. Op may be a faggot but you are also a faggot. They are not mutually exclusive

>> No.9780043

>>9780002
I'm on my lunch break, loser.

>Obviously it is because I'm the only one who can do the job.
Then what are you whining about? Either you are getting paid enough or you should demand a raise instead of having a tantrum and posting nonsense about "surplus value."

>> No.9780183

>>9779990
damn... we truly live in a society

>> No.9780225

>>9779742
Then get a new job, commie fuck.

>> No.9780237

>>9779522
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=%28%28%28%29%29%29

It is the (((people))) who enslaved to world to make us and all our progeny work for (((them))) the rest of our miserable lives.

Or in other words, it's the cancerous by-product of becoming dependent on the society shaped by us that we live in and we do it so comfortably that we follow a herd-instinct and can't think outside the box and be creative anymore.

>> No.9780324

>>9779956
Before I got into my uni I worked a full time office job, and I would get the days work done before lunch and fuck around on the internet or do homework for the community college I was attending at the time. Honestly it's pretty pointless to have people in the office if their works done, but I got paid to screw around or study so whatever.

>> No.9780378

>>9779966
Calm down, Elliot. Just because you're a failure doesn't mean that you have to gate everyone around you.

>> No.9780382

>>9780378
>gate
Gate. Hate. Fate.

>> No.9780422

>>9779518
The 40 hour work week has been around for 100 years. Think of how tech has advanced yet mr slave must put in his hours. People are retarded and too scared to challenge the status quo thats why.

>> No.9780426

>>9779744
i smell boomer

>> No.9780442

>>9780422
>dont let DA MAN get you down
if you're too big of a bitch to work 8 hours a day then work part time, if you need the money then suck it up

>> No.9780450

>>9779518
>that sweet feel when my government employer legally can't make me work a nanosecond of overtime

>> No.9780698

>>9779518
no

>> No.9780724

>>9779518
why do you have to stay the full 8 hours?

>> No.9780728

>>9779518
the 8 hour work day is only a thing in America because Americans have less productivity than most other workers and need 8 hours to get the same amount of work done. they look at their phones, chat, go to the bathroom too much because of poor diets, etc. we can get same work done in 4-5 hours and be done for the day

>> No.9780760

Actually, there is some evidence AGAINST it. I'm not sure if one can say it's scientific, though.

One is the pareto principle: a minor portion of your spent time will equate to a major portion of your results.

Another is some findings in neurobiology differing the brain's "focused" and "diffuse" modes. It's a whole thing, so take a look at Barbara Oakley's "Learning How to Learn" course on Coursera.

>> No.9780868

>>9780002
I didn't post that but you're clearly a HOOT at parties fatso

>> No.9780884

>>9780868
And i have gotten three raisesthis year, I'm too young to be considered a failure, op is still a faggot, and you are still a fat retarded Republican bitch. You're just the antithesis of op which is still a faggot

>> No.9780935

>>9779518
You're lucky you never had to work for 11-12 hours per day

>> No.9780967
File: 532 KB, 1000x1000, (((success))).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9780967

>>9779518

>> No.9781436

Tldr; countless studies have shown a 6 hour workday results in far higher productivity and happiness, at least for "paid to think" jobs. Really needs to become the norm but employers will just use it as an excuse to pay workers 25% less

>> No.9781440

>>9781436
There's also no reason not to when employees get burnt out after 3-4 hours and just fuck around the rest of the day anyway

>> No.9781461

>>9779546
what the fuck are the random numbers on the bottom

>> No.9781464

>>9781440
it depends on the work. how do you fuck around when you're doing research?

>> No.9781518

>>9779518
How about bringing this up with your boss instead of NEETs on an anonymous shit board?

>> No.9781596

read Marx
end thread

>> No.9781602

>>9779518
Sounds like shitty employer or they just don't trust you.
I work whenever I want and just write down how much time it took me and get pay for it. They care about what I can do and how efficient am I, not about how much time I sit in front of computer. That's retarded.

>> No.9781629

>>9781596
>there are posters on /sci/ who don't know about the immortal science of marxism-leninism
embarrassing

>> No.9781786

Capitalists had to give up the 12 hour work day because of labour unions.
Don't worry in America alot of progress has been made towards the systematic destruction of workers movements. We will all be working 12 hour shifts without overtime again in no time, Brazilification ftw.

>> No.9781789

>>9781596
>Read Marx
end yourself

>> No.9782051
File: 66 KB, 396x396, 1486731969550.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9782051

>Wagecucks

>> No.9782156

>>9780442
Basing our work culture around your idiotic narrative sounds like a great idea.

>> No.9782157

>>9781464
What? Research is the easiest area to fuck around in because you typically have no direct oversight from suits.

>> No.9782160
File: 347 KB, 750x523, 1505643087373.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9782160

>>9781789

>> No.9782164

>>9779844
There is clearly a grey area that indicates surplus value for both where the worker isn’t being fucked

>> No.9782226

>>9779518
8 hours is better than 14, you can thank the labor movement for that

>> No.9782252

>>9782164
How is the worker being fucked? By agreeing to provide a certain amount of work for the market value of that work? What the employer makes or how much work is necessary for a comfortable lifestyle is irrelevant.

>> No.9782269

>>9779844
workers are paid for labor, not for products they create. you pay the worker price of one product, while he created value of 3 products, for example.

>> No.9782282

>>9782252
worker is fucked, because while entrepreneur's capital is growing, worker's payment remains flat.
as a result, entrepreneurs become more and more richer and worker become more and more poorer.

>> No.9782288

>>9779546
found the commie

>> No.9782294

I can only get useful (programming) work done for 2-4 hours a day. After that it becomes a grind and it's just not worth the energy
My boss keeps being amazed at how fast I work, so I must be doing something right. I work from home and he doesn't believe me when I tell him how little time I actually spend working

>> No.9782407
File: 2.17 MB, 2592x1944, 1527309149703.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9782407

>>9779518
people will actually defend this.
It's amazing to me, what enables the corporate bootlicker mentality? How can you defend someone that literally doesn't even care if you exist?
Is it denial?

But yes OP, you're correct. Leave America and move to a country where you will be appreciated, that's what I plan on doing after finishing grad school. Sure the quality of life take a little dip but the freedom you get in exchange is more than worth it.
Hilarious that you have to leave america to be free in 2018.

>> No.9782417

>>9779518
Get a better job.

I've worked several jobs and after my degree and building my career enough to get real leverage, I realized what many have been saying for a long time: Employment isn't a one-directional deal. Your employer buys your time and skills, and you sell your time and skills, for the right pay and the right benefits.

In most higher paying jobs, people have a lot more leverage than they believe. If you bring a particular skill, attitude and overall service your employer knows they can't easily get anywhere else, you can negotiate better deals. With good relationships, they will even happily oblige.

My point is, negotiating 3-4 day work weeks (or 4-6 hour workdays as you put it) is not even uncommon where I work. Obviously, you suffer a similar hit to your wage, and you may lose some benefits like OT. But if your job and worth and pay is right, you'll still be earning more than most of the population.

Obviously that's not the best way to build a career, but who cares if you're already at the point you want to be at anyway?

>> No.9782432

>>9782407
Your quality of life will be much higher in any comparable western nation, no idea where you got the idea America has high quality of life relative to its peers.

>> No.9782454

>>9782432
I can get a cheap burger here, and good taste junk food is cheap as fuck.
I will miss that.

>> No.9782457

>>9782417
>>My point is, negotiating 3-4 day work weeks (or 4-6 hour workdays as you put it) is not even uncommon where I work. Obviously, you suffer a similar hit to your wage, and you may lose some benefits like OT. But if your job and worth and pay is right, you'll still be earning more than most of the population.
Pajeet is willing to work 9 days a week for a bowl of rice, he automatically wins any negotiation.
Again, bootlickers will lick boots

>> No.9782486

>>9782457
Lol yeah except nothing works like that outside of your NEET "look at me I'm such a victim" fantasyworld. Most companies hire locally, and most countries don't have pajeets. And even the companies that hire offshore, need local employees. And even the companies that have those pajeets of yours, have to deal with the fact that most of the pajeets are nowhere near as capable as a local, highly educated, professional.

You don't seem to understand the difference between working as a grocery salesman and working as something like a specialized IT-architect that takes years of education and years of experience and hard work on top of that.

In simple terms: The more important, capable and highly valued you make yourself to be, the more leverage you have in negotiating what you want. But if you're just a NEET who feels crossed that daddy doesn't pay when you've never worked for anything, or actually earned anything in your life, then feel free to fuck off. Because you deserve everything you got, which ain't much I wager.

>> No.9782495

>>9779518
You have to FULFILL the SOCIAL CONTRACT. You are INDEBTED to the JEW.

>> No.9782497

>>9782457
Are you telling us you can’t produce higher quality work than a poorly education foreigner working remotely with poor English skills? Sounds like a personal problem.

>> No.9782508

>>9782486
>Most companies hire locally, and most countries don't have pajeets
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>9782486
>The more important, capable and highly valued you make yourself to be, the more leverage you have in negotiating what you want
Oh wait, you're serious
AHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>> No.9782514
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9782514

>>9782497
>He thinks work is about quality and not the bottom line
Ask me how I know you just graduated high school

>> No.9782566

>>9782269
The value of labor is not equivalent to the value of the product, just as the value of materials is not equivalent to the value of the product. If you got the value of the product for parts of it, the product would not be made in the first place.

>> No.9782578

>>9782282
The worker should invest earnings in capital then. It's called investing and anyone can do it. If selling labor is no enough then don't sell labor, start a business. If you can't start a business then tough cookies. Your lack of value is not anyone fucking you over. Demanding that you have enough value does not make it so.

>> No.9782941

>>9779518
>burnt out after 4-6hrs
You're not providing your body with the calories it needs.

>> No.9782947

>>9782578
>The worker should invest earnings in capital then. It's called investing and anyone can do it.

this right here. its easier than ever for the little guy to start collecting dividends.

>> No.9782972

>>9782941
Nor the electrolytes it craves.

>> No.9783095

>>9779956
How do i get an office job, currently stuck at tesco and its making me suicidal

>> No.9783147

>>9779518
Your hours were decided arbitrarily, not scientifically. It's more about keeping you docile than getting things done.

>> No.9783150

Honestly the fact that a 25 hour work week isn't the norm in 2018 is a travesty

>> No.9783216
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9783216

>all the classcucks in this thread
gee, sure smells like >>>/pol/ around here

>> No.9783392

>>9779518
Because work is not only about you performing a certain amount of tasks, its you being part of a team and sometimes you cant predict when interaction of different people is gonna be needed so you just need to be there. Sometimes theres nothing to do and your job is to wait for something to do. Altough most shitty bosses will make shit up to torture you.

Also it is a matter of power, your boss OWNS your life, not your job, he needs to have the power to humillate you and he cant do that if you got free time.

>> No.9783412

>>9783150
this TBQH there are a lot of studies about mind performance and shit, in absolutely most cases you get more shit done with less hours, brain works better if its rested were not machines.

>> No.9783441

>>9783216
seriously. imagine being proud of working so you can pay for schlomo's new yacht.

>> No.9783634

>>9779518
they want your money

>> No.9783699

>>9779546
Thiss, I meet so many older single guys who are working 12 hours, for what purpose I ask them? Niggas don't even have a flash car to maintain they literally work that much because they have nothing else to do with their time.

>> No.9783701

>>9780967
Monks are the original welfare scroungers though because they have been living off church handouts for centuries.

>> No.9783804

>>9779518
I don't know how they decided 8, but I think most bosses realize they only get 4-6 hours of productivity out of a person each day anymore. A lot of chit chat, walking around, long shit breaks, etc goes on. They keep it at 8 because they assume you'll just keep up the chit chat, etc. and only get 3-4 hours of productivity each day if they shorten your shift.

That and now that they're responsible for your health care and benefits, it's in their interests to keep shifts as long as possible to avoid paying extra plans for extra employees.

That and manufacturing productivity and profitability is dependant on how long can you keep the machines running. Shorter shifts means less parts, or possibly 4 shifts per 24hr day, which again is more money on benefits.

>> No.9783814

>>9782432
Idk, everything is so cheap here. Every time I go abroad it's like we have to ration the hot water, even in Rome or Tokyo. Food is expensive, your automobile gas is through the roof compared to ours, and plenty of normies in big cities are still living with their parents at 30.
It's probably more the cost of luxury and necessity that he's talking about. But again, depending where you go, things like the food quality and public projects can make up for that.

>> No.9784068

>>9783814
Japan is expensive, isn't it? And rome is a tourist destination, with different familial traditions. Though housing is fucked in a lot of yuro countries I think

>> No.9784556

>>9779518
The philosophy behind it was 8 hours of work, 8 hours of play, and 8 hours of sleep

>> No.9784572

>>9784068
as with anywhere, the cities are expensive. there is much of rural japan that is equivalent in cost of living to parts of the US.

>> No.9785334

>>9784556
>8 hours of play
You mean 8 hours of: driving, errands, eating, cleaning, other bullshit, etc

>> No.9785343

>>9785334
there's always the weekend

>> No.9785781

>>9782947
Yeah but a lot of us don' have that leeway to invest+save+cover all our needs.

>> No.9785840

>>9785781
Cut out much of the needs. Eating three times a day is unnecessary. Motor vehicles came many thousands of years after the first homo sapiens hunted and gathered together. Houses are imperfect machines which serve as artificial caves.

>> No.9785846

>>9782514
> that gif
Taaake onnn meee ~

>> No.9785899
File: 221 KB, 1024x924, 1527931797092.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9785899

>>9785840
>you are poor because you eat too much
kek
worker need to invest in a rope for his boss.

>> No.9785923

>>9782294
What do you program?

>> No.9786221

>>9782432
>no idea where you got the idea America has high quality of life relative to its peers.
The mean income and purchasing power is higher in America than in any other major country (oilnigger saudis, norwegians and tax haven residents not withstanding) in the world.
>mfw euroshit thinks his education and healthcare is "free" and is unable to grasp how expensive gasoline, cars and food is in his country
Keep at it, socialist imbecile.

t. Finn

>> No.9786234

>>9785781
>our needs
Food, housing and transportation are piss cheap in modern western countries - ordinary people have never had as much disposable income as they do now.. If you´d rather play the lottery, buy flatscreen-TV:s, use cocaine and spend a fortune on nische hobbies, you´ve made a conscious effort not to invest and attain wealth.

You can´t both have the cake and eat it.

>> No.9786335

OP is getting unfairly hated on. I have seen several studies that say virtually no worker is productive for the full 8 hours. In fact most studies I see claim that the average worker is only doing really productive work for 2 hours a day

>> No.9786359

>>9786335
> In fact most studies I see claim that the average worker is only doing really productive work for 2 hours a day
The average worker is not a computer programmer or otherwise highly trained professional whose work revolves around handling abstractions.

I can assure you that a welder or electrician does not tire in the span of time that you quote.

>> No.9786368
File: 76 KB, 1000x1000, clutter.big.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9786368

>>9785923
Software which interacts with a radar, and visualizes/analyzes video data from it

>> No.9786379

>>9779518
>Being productive for the full 8 seems impossible.
It was a compromise in a deal with capital and religious types. 100 years ago smart people realized that American industry is productive enough to supply the needs and reasonable wants of everyone in the country with minimal labor.
You can't be productive for the full 8 hours because your production is unnecessary. After a certain amount of hours, nothing you do actually benefits your fellow countrymen. You're just working for the pure profit of the capitalists who will ship your extra production overseas to be sold to people who hate the USA for the profit of people who only see you as a thing to be exploited for more money.
But you have to do this busy work because otherwise other workers and religious folks will resent you for being "lazy".
You're all sitting around at work doing nothing meaningful because otherwise other workers will get mad at you for being comfy at home while they are sitting around at work doing nothing meaningful.
And that's it. That's all of it. Forever. Until people stop valuing "work" as some natural good.
Just think of all the shit people try to sell you every day. Millions of people making and shipping this shit, and a smaller number of people whose lives are dedicated to brainwashing you into desiring to buy this garbage.
>Tons of people trying to con you into buying stuff you don't need and is bad for you and bad for society, because otherwise these people would have no jobs and society would look down on them.
>but if you get a bunch of people addicted to some bullshit suddenly you're the American dream, self-made-man, huge success...

>> No.9786389

>>9786379
>>9779518
Just think about the absurdity of a "service economy" for just a second.
Over 50 fucking percent, HALF the labor force in America, just does SERVICES, SERVANT WORK. You make coffee for people...
Make your own damn coffee and save hundreds/thousands of dollars a year people. But then all those servants would be out of work...

>> No.9786392

>>9783701
Do you know what monks even do?

>> No.9786403

>>9786389
>>9779518
We had to become a service economy, we had to start designing products to fail and need replacement every few years, because otherwise we'd quickly and easily produce 400 million units+ of every product, everyone's needs would be satisfied, and the economy would just halt as there is no more domestic demand for anything to be produced.
Great you think, everyone has everything they need, right? Except money. No one would have any income or revenue, no more taxes. Everyone would be sitting at home doing whatever they want, being lazy instead of working.
And since morons think that "work" is a natural good irrespective of it actually benefiting anyone other than your capitalist masters and foreign powers.

>> No.9786734

>>9779940
I will never make that my norm. I'd live off the land at that point

>> No.9786744

Most people waste time socializing with near the coffee maker and browsing facebook for 25% of the time at work

I work in a clean room and people still find a way to play with their phone all the time.

>> No.9787232

>>9786368
Sounds interesting.