Herbicides and Pesticides

[Anonymous No.9741295]

What is with American's obsession of spraying their lawns with herbicides and pesticides just to kill a few dandelions?

I just don't understand the thought process that someone goes through to determine that it is a good idea to unload potentially toxic and dangerous chemicals in their yard, literally right up to their doorstep.

How should I go about telling my neighbor that I don't appreciate their spraying up almost near my garden?

Anyone have experience with herbicide drift damage?

[Anonymous No.9741309]

All chemicals are potentially toxic and dangerous you stupid fuck

[Anonymous No.9741315]

>>9741309

[Anonymous No.9741321]

>>9741309
Wow, the /pol/ containment threads are getting weird.

[Anonymous No.9741323]

>>9741295
Because the shitty HOA demands a pristine lawn.

>Muh bees!
Hilarious.

[Anonymous No.9741355]

Honestly,

I remember a time when there were legitimate and civil conversations on /sci/ and other boards on 4chan. However, thanks to /pol/, we now have limited civility in conversations, and we constantly have to put up with racist or offensive shit posting.

[Anonymous No.9741361]

Fuck /Pol/ fuck toxic shit and fuck those who destroy the environment.

[Anonymous No.9741364]

>>9741361

[Anonymous No.9741367]

>>9741295
Commercialization of, "lawn culture." The only thing I do is mow my lawn because I need to walk around on the farm, use it for compost, and the local government will seize your entire property if the grass is higher than 4 inches when someone get a bug up their ass and comes out to measure it (oil & gas people lobbied for it to land grab).

[Anonymous No.9741370]

>>9741367
Terrible.
What about downed trees in your yard?
Can a city potentially come after you if you leave a fallen tree and it's branches on your property?

[Anonymous No.9741373]

>>9741367
>the local government will seize your entire property if the grass is higher than 4 inches
What shithole do you live in?

[Anonymous No.9741381]

>>9741370
It is county, not city. They made up a huge amount of rules for land grabbing. We protested and they didn't pass them then decided to do it again, "rewritten" but didn't announce it like they are supposed to do before voting. I don't know the entire list, but something like that would be a thing, yes.

>>9741373
A place where oil & gas rule everything. It is pretty much 1984 here.

[Anonymous No.9741380]

>>9741370
>Can a city potentially come after you
Every local government is different, how do so many people on the interwebs not know this?
In general though, In America, you'll likely be fined for letting your property get too bad.
I used to be on an HOA, and worst case, we'd hire someone to fix your yard, pay them out of HOA funds, then put a lien on your house.
You don't actually have to pay until you want to sell or refinance your house.

[Anonymous No.9741383]

>>9741380
HOA has no power if you own your property. I've told them to fuck off several times for my other properties. They'd get shot if they trespass though.

[Anonymous No.9741386]

>>9741380
How are the rules defined by the HOA even constitutional?

[Anonymous No.9741393]

>>9741381
>A place where oil & gas rule everything. It is pretty much 1984 here.
Wow. And yet both Pennsylvania and West-byGod-Virginia both voted GOP. Jesus-fucking-Christ.

[Anonymous No.9741396]

>>9741386
>rules defined by the HOA even constitutional?
Why wouldn't they be?
You're contractually obligated when you buy the house and/or state law grants them a certain degree of authority.
Am I missing something? Is there an amendment that says "no HOA's"?
FWIW I was elected to the board, so it's not like it's communist Russia.

[Anonymous No.9741401]

>>9741393
It has always been like that with all their resources. Everyone comes in and literally rapes all their resources from trees, to coal, to oil and gas and they get what amounts to a bushel of corn.

[Anonymous No.9741411]

>>9741396
And people actually like living under such agreements? Wow

[Anonymous No.9741444]

>>9741411
>And people actually like living under such agreements? Wow
HOA's are notoriously unpopular, mostly because they are often run by snooty soccer moms trying to throw their weight around and engage in petty squabbles.
But I'm really lost on what you think is fundamentally wrong here.
It's little different than any local government, just on a much smaller scale.
OK, board members are elected on a one-house-one-vote system rather than one-adult-one-vote.
Their powers are far more limited than a local government's, they can't create a police force, or tax your paycheck directly for instance.
What am I missing here?

[Anonymous No.9741451]

>I just don't understand the thought process that someone goes through to determine that it is a good idea to unload potentially toxic and dangerous chemicals in their yard, literally right up to their doorstep.

That is where those billions in advertising go to, mate. There is no thought process there. It is rather a lack of thought.

[Anonymous No.9741452]

>>9741444
Special districts are fun too.

[Anonymous No.9741456]

>>9741381

Wait, sorry, didn't you Americans have freedom? In particular isn't the single most treasured freedom, the right to property?

[Anonymous No.9741462]

>>9741456
>In particular isn't the single most treasured freedom, the right to property?
[citation needed]
The fifth amendment specifically protects "life, liberty and property".
Of the three, I'd rank "property" the lowest.

[Anonymous No.9741468]

>>9741444
Yeah except local governments usually don’t have petty and ridiculous rules to follow. For instance, my small town has few ordinances, and those only pertain to basic safety and health. Whereas HOA enforce rules ranging from paint colors, mail boxes, to ocd lawn care measures. Don’t compare local government with HOA - one is there for a reason, and another is a group of people who suffer from little hitler syndrome.

[Anonymous No.9741491]

>>9741468
Sure, sure, but Anon mostly seemed concerned about it having governmental powers while he doesn't consider it to be a "real" government.
And yeah, extreme examples are sure to capture people's attention, but most HOA's just don't want your place to look like a shithole.
Cut the grass, don't leave your trash cans on the curb seven days a week, take your Christmas lights down by mid-January and most HOA's just don't care.
And if you have one where you're unhappy with the situation, you're probably in the minority because otherwise the same board members wouldn't keep getting re-elected.

[Anonymous No.9741496]

>>9741491
How about back to the original topic OP posted about?

[Anonymous No.9741506]

>>9741444
They aren’t that unpopular. People want the value of their home protected, and want rules that prevent neighbors from letting their properties deteriorate.

My HOA costs about $150 per year. They have rules about mailboxes, paint jobs, gazebos, etc. I’d vote to get rid of it, but that’s what i agreed to when I bought the home.

OP is right though. My neighbors are lawn obsessed. I’m one of the very few who doesn’t have a lawn service. I’ve got a yard full of dandelions. So far nobody has complained.

[Anonymous No.9741524]

>>9741496
Sure thing.
I'm pretty sure it's two things:
1) Keeping up with the Jones'.
No matter how good your shit looks, lot's of people (mostly women) just HAVE to have a better looking place than their neighbors.
Sure, men are ultra competitive assholes, but we compete in other ways, not "my outfit/boobs/lawn" looks nicer than yours.
2) A desire by more modern people to distance themselves from the dirty, smelly natural world.
The "factory perfect" lawn is seen as an extension of the interior of a house, and there can't be a thing out of place.
If /sci/ didn't hate psychology so much, I'd float ideas about control issues, fear of the unknown and (in some cases) semi-autistic need for "ordnung".

I'd also point out:
>>9741295
>literally right up to their doorstep
...isn't nearly as concerning as these chemicals getting into the ground water and local streams, wetlands and reservoirs.
Here in Virginia, nearly every good fishing sot has a sign warning about the dangers of eating pesticide-laden fish.

[Anonymous No.9741526]

>>9741506
>People want the value of their home protected, and want rules that prevent neighbors from letting their properties deteriorate
pretty much this. it ensures your neighborhood doesn't turn into a shit show. You pay a little bit each year so you don't lose thousands of dollars on your house. It's obviously going to attract the worst kind of people to run it but it's really not that hard to keep your yard maintained so you don't have to deal with them.

[Anonymous No.9741532]

>>9741295
idk what makes you think this is an american thing
australia, scotland, ukraine, south africa, france, belgium, mongolia, india, canada, mexico, chile, and argentia all do the same thing
australia is probably the most aggressive user of chemical herbicides and pesticides

[Anonymous No.9741548]

>>9741532
It's definitely an American thing.
I've been to Ukraine, Moldova, Romania, Bulgaria, Russia, Poland, and Czech Republic. I lived in Moscow for a half a year too. Not a single person was spraying pesticides on their lawn to make it look pretty. In fact, if you go to most former Soviet countries, the only parts of the city that seem to be maintained are the walking paths and streets (for the most part).

You may be thinking about agricultural use, which is completely different than what OP is talking about. I have honestly not seen anything comparable in those countries I listed where home owners go out into their yard (or their courtyard in the case of Russia) to spray away flowers. In fact, the yard around those buildings actually look healthier than lawns I see here in the US, with lots of wild grasses, flowers, and trees growing in between buildings. Something you just don't see much here in the states.

[Anonymous No.9741559]

>>9741548
Also, unrelated - but they eat healthier too.
And don't wear dirty shoes in their homes.

[Anonymous No.9741562]

>>9741456
>>9741462
>the right to property?
>"life, liberty and property"

No one on Earth has that. The guy with the biggest stick can always take it away. That is fact of the real world, not some make up bullshit on paper to make people feel good.

[Anonymous No.9741564]

>>9741548
You are correct. I in fact was thinking of agricultural use, as I do market research for a company who's looking to enter the agricultural chemical market. I was not particularly considering household use, which wasn't one of the probing areas of the study, except for termiticides.

[Anonymous No.9741579]

>>9741564
That's cool man.
What kind of market factors where you researching and looking during that time period? I'm curious.

[Anonymous No.9741583]

>>9741564
Also, would be interesting to look at the household use for those countries, and how each compares to each other, and maybe even other factors such as environmental and soil health

[Anonymous No.9741592]

>>9741562
Ok Mr. Heinlein,nice to see you're still alive.
Now let's let the grown ups talk.

[Anonymous No.9741601]

>>9741592
p.s. In case you didn't get the reference, Robert Heinlein (a really great author) used to insist that rights, gratitude, altruism, etc didn't exist.
First he would produce an impossible definition, then complain nothing matched his definition.
For the record, "rights" are a series of promises made by the government, and YES, the government DOES make promises, so rights do exist.
>>9741562
>The guy with the biggest stick can always take it away.
Name a bigger stick than the government's.
Corruption almost always involves subverting the government, not overpowering it.

[Anonymous No.9741603]

>>9741579
Mostly potential open targets in the market. It was a broad probe to gauge what potential new products could reasonably fit into the market by probing agricultural consultants, farmers, and distributors about what is already present in X market and where it's lacking. Satisfaction of existing products, unmet needs, and public reception of competitors.

Then those reports go to the client company, they make further decisions about where to invest their R&D dollars, and we do more intensive study on the specific product across, again, farmers, distributors, and consultants to see what benchmarks would be necessary for them to consider a new product, and what price points they'd need to see.

Then that report goes back, we get feedback again about what product is going to be hypothetically developed, gauge response, corroborate with marketing/advertising shills, get their feedback, then contact the same groups yet again to gauge their response to potential advertising.

imo it's very important for market research and marketing/advertising to be separate third party entities, because some of the shit they deliver is just awful, and we need to be able to tell them that it's awful

[Anonymous No.9741624]

>thread about the dangers and ethics of home herbicide application
30 posts later
>argument about libertarian principles
never change, /sci/

[Anonymous No.9741665]

>>9741309
Agreed, we should restrict Hydrogen Dioxide to keep the masses safe.

[Anonymous No.9741678]

The amounts used on lawns are trivial. Be worried about the millions of gallons dumped onto crops that then drains into rivers, fields, and the water table.

[Anonymous No.9741687]

>>9741678
Are they really that trivial when said neighbors spray multiple times a year, very heavily (so that it blows into my yard and house if windows are open) every year?

[Anonymous No.9741705]

>>9741601
The government appropriating anything still falls under "the guy with the biggest stick can take it away", moreover foreign governments and entities sometimes have bigger sticks than your government. Government as a principle can be thought of as the amount of "stick" the electorate is willing to give in exchange for benefits they otherwise couldnt entertain.

Anyways its neither math no science so
>>9741295
Because people are garbage and care about the stupidest shit with no regard for anything outside their narrow view.

[Anonymous No.9741711]

>>9741687
I mean I doubt it will hurt you but sure you have a right to ask them to limit it or like only do it on non-windy days and in a more controlled manner

[Anonymous No.9741725]

>>9741665
probably a good idea. although its quite hard to make.

Dihydrogen Monoxide however, is a whole different matter...

[Anonymous No.9741735]

>>9741506
>value of their home
As if that vast urban sprawl had any kind of practical value.

[Anonymous No.9741738]

>>9741548
>Cut shit down.
>Plants that thrive in such wastelands take over.
Who'd have thunk.

[Anonymous No.9741744]

>>9741562
Should we rewrite an abridged constitution?

>We the people living in this land form a gang to work together more efficiently against everyone who wants to harm us.
>To that end we forbid everyone to except designated enforcers to use violence or steal shit.
>Signed
>The guys who control the military.

[Anonymous No.9741748]

>>9741624
Can we talk about using lasers against unwanted plants next?

[Anonymous No.9741753]

>>9741295

Because it works. Do you want to do gardening once a month or once a week? This isn't even factoring in chemical fertilizers. That said this conversation is largely redundant now, due to water shortages everyone who wants a truly green lawn puts in astroturf because there's no maintenance cost beside the monthly roundup spray.

Also the state itself sprays pesticide at night to stop mosquitos.

http://www.mvcac.org/about/member-agencies/

https://www.smcmvcd.org/

http://www.sjmosquito.org/

http://www.sutter-yubamvcd.org/california-mosquito-districts

In this case pesticide is sprayed by the truckload.

[Anonymous No.9741756]

>>9741753

[Anonymous No.9741762]

>>9741756

>europeans will never know that feel of waking up early and seeing the bug trucks come through

[Anonymous No.9741764]

>>9741762

By the way, we're still able to get DDT at most feed and industrial supply stores where it's sold inside bug bombs.

[Anonymous No.9741771]

>>9741764

The state also has the legal authority to come onto your property at any time explicitly to cover it in pesticide.

[Anonymous No.9741774]

>>9741771

They usually don't need to anymore though because the trucks have long range sprayers that can coat entire houses and backyards from the street.

[Anonymous No.9741927]

>>9741444
And of course, one always has the option to move somewhere that has no HOA.

[Anonymous No.9741940]

>>9741468
>Yeah except local governments usually don’t have petty and ridiculous rules to follow.
Depends on the city. I'm having a house built right now, and a few of the engineering marvels they are making us incorporate are nothing short of stupid. The most annoying one is having gutter runoff go to a holding tank that overflows to a ground leeching system that connects to the footer drains that go to a sump that goes back to the holding tank. I'm basically pumping water while the water is eroding a channel between these points.

[Anonymous No.9741951]

>>9741295
You can pluck dandelions only so much. If you leave any of the root,it comes back in larger numbers,branching from the bits of root left over. The dandelions exude a chemical under their leaves that kill the grass. This leaves bare spots for new seeds to germinate. Dandelions send down tap roots that make them far less susceptible to dry conditions, so they grow more than the grass. Net result: the hippies are happy with their dandelion lawns (because they can brag they don't use chemicals), and the seeds they from the blooms blow over to everyone else's yards. Ever walk barefoot through a dandelion field? Looks like shit, too. Fuckin hippies.

[Anonymous No.9742025]

>>9741774

[Anonymous No.9742851]

>>9741951
So sorry about your feet bro

[Anonymous No.9742944]

>>9741361
Fuck you environmentalist fag, get off your high horse, we are still at the mercy of nature, not the other way around, we should preserve ourselves. Your are misguided.

Round-up is preferable, it's is biodegradeable and significantly less toxic than 'organic' or 'bio' crops who use coppersulfate and several other older substances.

[Anonymous No.9743081]

>>9742944
Pollluting the environment in which we must preserve ourselves seems logical.

Kinda like shitting where you eat is a good idea too.

[Anonymous No.9743092]

>>9743081
Pollutant: any substance that renders soil, air, water, or other natural resource harmful or unsuitable for a specific purpose.

Weeds are the pollutant.

[Anonymous No.9743097]

>>9743092
>Weeds can perform vital ecosystem services such as protecting and restoring exposed or degraded soils. In addition, some weeds provide habitat for beneficial organisms, and thereby contribute significantly to natural and biological control of some insect pests. Certain weeds also make nutritious food or fodder.

[Anonymous No.9743099]

>>9743097
"specific purpose."

Of a lawn.

[Anonymous No.9743100]

>>9743092

>Monocropping also creates the spread of pests and diseases, which have to be treated with yet more chemicals. The effects of monocropping on the environment are severe when pesticides and fertilizers make their way into ground water or become airborne, creating pollution.

mfw my lawn is still green during a drought while all of my neighbor's lawns are brown dead grass

[Anonymous No.9743105]

>>9743100
Pollution is an unwanted substance that has unwanted effects.

A weed is an unwanted plant that has unwanted effects.

What do you want? What should you want?

[Anonymous No.9743109]

>>9743105
pollution
>the presence in or introduction into the environment of a substance or thing that has harmful or poisonous effects.

dandelions
>Dandelions are good for your lawn. Their wide-spreading roots loosen hard-packed soil, aerate the earth and help reduce erosion. The deep taproot pulls nutrients such as calcium from deep in the soil and makes them available to other plants. Dandelions actually fertilize the grass.

[Anonymous No.9743113]

>>9742944
rounding up faggots like you is also good for the environment

[Anonymous No.9743114]

>>9743105
nice false analogies

[Anonymous No.9743116]

>>9743113

[Anonymous No.9743273]

>>9743113
Look everyone!
A snooty sheltered indoctrinated college dreadlock man who hasn't ever set foot on a farm in his life is here how to tell us multi generational farmers what good farming practices are!

[Anonymous No.9743279]

>>9741295
If it's good enough for the pesticide people it should be good enough for you
unless Trump relaxed the regulations or something

[Anonymous No.9743375]

>>9741295
God damn it I hate round up, im a farmer so I have to work with it every year for my corn, but if i smell it from 10m away I get a headache for the rest of the day, luckily my workers usually work with it so I don't have to smell it, but the retards cant understand that it kills everything, so they step in it then walk all over the place and then I have dead footprints all over my lawn since I dont have roundup ready lawn (because its inferior to Pennisetum clandestinum, I dont get why americans who are so obsessed with their laws dont use it, it grows everywhere, and kills almost every other plant in its path. Its also the softest fucking glass ive ever felt).

[Anonymous No.9743401]

>>9741367
Couldn't agree more. Lawns are almost always a waste of life.
Worse still are the huge exspanses of grassland remnants along highways and in fallow land that are either kept mowed at 4 inches or are allowed to be invaded by trees.
The amount of water and carbon that isn't absorbed into the ground could do alot to save us from climate change and water scarcity, not to mention the horrible biodiversty loss. All for stupid authoritarian bullshit that comes along with the legal fiction of public and private property ownership.

[Anonymous No.9743420]

>>9743273
i'm a multigenerational farmer and you sound like a faggot who should be rounded up and forced to pick dandelions for the rest of your life.

[Anonymous No.9743428]

>>9743420
You can make a fair amount of money picking dandelions, I'm not lion the roots sell for a decent price.

[Anonymous No.9743430]

>>9743428
i've changed my mind, we need to kill the dandelions because of faggots like you and your puns.

[Anonymous No.9743433]

>>9741393
Anon, the GOP is the exact same thing as the Democratic party.

[Anonymous No.9743510]

>>9741295
>I don't understand the thought process
I love it when not understanding someone else's point of view is something to brag about, or somehow proves your point.
>dangerous chemicals
I hope it gives your kids cancer.
>how do I tell my neighbor?
Why not leave a passive aggressive note on their kitchen window? You fucking faggot.

[Anonymous No.9743516]

Literally 99.99% of pesticides you eat are produced by the plants themselves are are carcinogenic.

www.pnas.org/content/87/19/7777

Using pesticides in farming prevents things like E. Coli, and makes the plants last longer on the shelves, and only 0.01% of it ends in our food.

Some retards (people who do keto diets, but they're a lost cause anyway) will take this to mean "stop eating fruit and vegetables", just eat dairy and meat... if you avoid plants you also avoid their nutrition, so you might escape cancer at 80 but you'll die at 50 from a shitty diet.

[Anonymous No.9743536]

>>9741295
I agree with that, you should take samples of your ground and/or the product used for pesticides. See a laboratory for further analysis, at least for one with triple quad mass spectrometry techniques.
https://www.alphalyse.com/biopharmaceuticals/protein-quantification/?st-t=adwords&vt-k=%252Bmass%2520%252Bspectrometry%2520%252Banalysis&vt-mt=b&vt-ap=1t1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImtvZt8yI2wIVQeAbCh081QDiEAAYASAAEgL_a_D_BwE

[Anonymous No.9743604]

>>9743510
The tone in your message sounds like you are butthurt. Why?