/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.9717658]

Is there any proof that depression isn't just a (((scam)))? I'm having trouble believing that it is real ...

[Anonymous No.9717663]

>>9717658
It's about as real as IQ

[Anonymous No.9717715]

>>9717658
>Is there any proof of a negative?
No.

[Anonymous No.9717725]

>>9717658

in many cases you can actually measure it. Many organically depressive persons tend to have significantly different levels of exactly the hormones , that in a higher dose we would expect to cause exactly the symptoms of depression. So yeah, if we agree that a.) hormones can cause psychological symptoms like those of depression and b.) there are person with hormonal imbalances then yeah, depression actually exists even without trusting therapists or depressives ;)

[Anonymous No.9717825]

>>9717658
What do you mean a scam? You're saying depression isn't real? There are people who spend their entire waking time thinking about killing themselves because of how much they hate living. Are these people just sad? What if they have no immediate reason to be sad, then why are they feeling like this? If they're just sad then how is it possible to develop medicines to affect their brains' biochemistry and alleviate the symptoms?

[Anonymous No.9717863]

>>9717825
yes

[Anonymous No.9717871]

>>9717825
It's called hypothyroidism. Nobody should take psych drugs for any reason.

[Anonymous No.9717882]

First try on IQ test confirms in my mind that at least this test is bunk.
1.Word section that i just happened to know every word to.
2. Babys first logic section
3.the most obvious number sequence puzzles (512,84,8,1)
4. Multiple choice (can be done right here it was not)
5. middleschool algebra
6. no section on real verbal intelligence

-math major at a community college getting a b in multivariable and and a c in linear algebra
(literally one one test couldn't remember 2(1-2^n/1-2) so I could prove by induction that it equals the sum of the first n powers of 2).
Also i'm not eloquent and I can't type/write/spell

[Anonymous No.9717890]

>>9717882
Yeah 144 seems too high for you.

[Anonymous No.9717901]

>>9717882
>>9717890
Have you ever seen an online IQ test not give a score over 120?

[Anonymous No.9717906]

>>9717901
I saw this test give a streamer greekgodx 85 or 81 i forgot

[Anonymous No.9717916]

>>9717901
This
I scored 137 online and im a major brainlet who never finished hs
On a real trst id probably score double digits

[Anonymous No.9717921]

>>9717871
If it was that simple, don't you think it would be easily cured? Or do you think all doctors and scientists in the world have a share in the scam?

[Anonymous No.9717922]

>>9717658
>I'm having trouble believing that it is real
Imagine talking about something you have never experienced. I don't think erectile disfunction exists because I have never had it. Must be the (((kikes))) pushing their little blue pills.

[Anonymous No.9717950]

>>9717658
You'd have to assume that every person who took the GRE test was prepared just as good as everyone else. Otherwise, you can't estimate IQ from this diagram.

[Anonymous No.9717951]

>>9717922
Depression is meme tier horseshit in most cases for teens and early 20s dudes/gals to decorate their ego and make them more "special and interesting" and also for people to feel sorry for them and for attention.
i think that is why op thinks is bullcrap.
people with real depression dont ever broadcast it to people. So if some person tells you he she has depression its most likely bullcrap and can be dismissed.

[Anonymous No.9717959]

>>9717951
>Depression is meme tier horseshit in most cases
Source?

[Anonymous No.9717963]

>>9717922
If it's real why haven't I have had it? I've been poor, dead dad, apathetic mom, etc. Why haven't I contracted this disease? Especially if it's so common these days...

[Anonymous No.9717966]

>>9717959
>muh source
Talk to 10 people who ha e "depression" anon then conclude afterwards for yourself.
In medschool teens were just begging for a positive diagnosis.

[Anonymous No.9717973]

>>9717715
>>9717725
>>9717825 (you can really tell with this guy)
>>9717922
t. depressed brainlets

[Anonymous No.9717976]

>>9717963
There are people who smoke heavily their whole lives and never get cancer. Does that mean that cancer doesn't exist?

[Anonymous No.9717978]

>>9717976
You can show me cancer and produce it deliberately in mice. How come you can't do that with depression? I thought this was a science board?

[Anonymous No.9717982]

>>9717978
Because the brain is not understood so well.
>I thought this was a science board?
And I thought you weren't an idiot. Guess we all make mistakes.

[Anonymous No.9717983]

>>9717978
Break the reward system in the mice's brain.

[Anonymous No.9717994]

>>9717982
>>9717983
t. meme depressed virgins

[Anonymous No.9717999]

>>9717982
If so misunderstand, why should I believe in depression? What if everything we know about it is wrong because it is all derivative of a misunderstanding?

[Anonymous No.9718091]

>>9717658
Here's a couple of things you can try reading
General:
https://www.healthline.com/health/depression/effects-brain#4
Here's an aggregate of several papes:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/heal-your-brain/201107/depression-and-anxiety-disorders-damage-your-brain-especially-when-untre
Here's a Harvard info ting on it:
https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/what-causes-depression

I got saddled with it and it's not fun, it runs through my moms side of the family but luckily as mine has a heavy genetic component my psychiatrist could chose treatment options that worked well in other family members.
>>9717963
That can make you sad, depression isn't what happens in your life. Depressive episodes can be triggered and predispositions to certain psychiatric disorders can increase due to your shitty life. However if you had depression it wouldn't matter if you were a prince or a pauper, the feelings would be the same, even if treatment would be easier as a prince. >>9717978
You also need to look things up beforehand, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_models_of_depression, we have a variety of models that match a lot of the phenotype seen in humans. But just like any disease, cancer included, it is near impossible to exactly mimic it in an animal model.

[Anonymous No.9718118]

>>9718091
didn't read, give me non-pseud readings please.

[Anonymous No.9718168]

This chart is useless. Imagine having 200 IQ then. Could you have a depression then or just fucking fun and joy. Depression is like losing your toys in your butt. You just need to shit it out. And it can get awfull. Cuz it was easier to get it in than out. So im saying walk it out or take shitloads of amphetamine and cocaine to really blow it out. Or no pain for a little tuning on/with some crack. Go to hell with anti depressants. They only make you sick. Is big pharma standing for big joke WTH. There is no cure, there just is no cure. But best i can say is to have a big bed and a dark room. And no noice around you. And try to eat some fruit if you can. Bananas are best. But if OP is asking if the higher IQ the stronger the derps or easier to derp. Then i must say nah probably not. You hit the wall you hit the wall. Or else you're just so stupid that you don't get derped and then you may just turn that chart upside down and think you have no idea what deeps you have until you are so trashed you cannot even grasp for your own little shit life to see how pointless you are.

[Anonymous No.9718184]

>>9717658
Yeah depression/stress is in correlation with our fight or flight mechanism which has clearly not adapted or evolved to living in this day and age. Clearly if you ask this you're an entitled shit who has everything handed to them and doesn't have to worry about money

[Anonymous No.9718213]

>>9718184
I don't believe in evolution. Also: >>9717963

[Anonymous No.9718215]

I hate living and I'm sad all the time.
I remember wanting to die when I was 10
But even I recognize that depression isn't real

[Anonymous No.9718225]

>>9717658
> mIQw i have both philosophy and medicine degrees

[Anonymous No.9718238]

>>9718225
How did you get both

[Anonymous No.9718244]

>>9717658
>tfw Social Work gets always btfo'd on theese charts

[Anonymous No.9718248]

>>9718238
I did a philosophy degree because i was a very curious but not necessarily forward thinking teenager and then moved to medicine afterwards. Fortunately my family had money to afford it, i appreciate it's really not something 99% of people can afford even if they wanted to. My parents also paid off all student loans for my courses and my siblings. When i qualified i saved a token few thousand to offer back but it was refused.

[Anonymous No.9718270]

>>9717973
>t. actual brainlet

[Anonymous No.9718334]

>>9718248
>Did philosophy first
The world is your playground is it?

[Anonymous No.9718345]

>>9717658
So anyone with a degree is very likely to have >100 IQ?

[Anonymous No.9718379]

>>9717921
shrinks are neither doctors nor scientists

[Anonymous No.9718391]

>>9718334
As in my family was wealthy enough i could do whatever i wanted? I was never spoilt at all and do not have expensive desires except for food being /fit/, however my parents probably took too much to the boomer "do whatever makes you happy in life" mantra for child raising so i wasn't a pragmatic teenager.

[Anonymous No.9718408]

>>9717921
Do therapists and anti-depressant manufacturers not profit greatly from this scam?

[Anonymous No.9718844]

>>9717658
Some muse that it is about different stress-regulation systems in the body malfunctioning or stopping to work correctly.
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22128913

[Anonymous No.9718890]

If you do shit like put parentheses around words you aren't smart enough to understand anything subsurface about the world. Validating echo chambers like pol have tricked the dumbest, most worthless people in the world to think that their opinions are valid and meaningful, but in reality you can't trust anything you believe.

[Anonymous No.9718986]

>>9717950
Test prep has a relatively small delta. It's negligible in a large sample.

[Anonymous No.9718993]

>>9718091
Psych is unironically Anglo-Jewish mysticism. Lack of replication in psych studies is a widely known problem.

[Anonymous No.9718996]

>>9718213
Doooovid pls.

[Anonymous No.9718998]

>>9718408
The highest paid therapists make nowhere near six figures.

[Anonymous No.9719002]

>>9718890
>use triple parenthesis
>jew outs himself by becoming triggered
More reliable than gravity.

[Anonymous No.9719010]

>>9718890
>Replying without reference to the post you are referring to.

[Anonymous No.9719024]

>>9719002
>dystopia-tier form of propaganda used by people who are so dumb they can literally modify their own world view and the world views of their peers by what they do or don't put parentheses around
>they do this in feedback loop echo chambers which magnifies the influence of the practice and others like it
>not being "triggered" by this
This behavior and pol in general are proof that Idiocracy is already here.

[Anonymous No.9719028]

>>9717882
That's why there are multiple tests available
But to be quite honest, IQ tests nowaday are more about making money than evaluating intelligence

[Anonymous No.9719053]

I think depression has a few sources: "addiction to sadness", "ignoring yourself", and some sorts of selfdestructing but somewhat compensatoy behavior.

>addiction to sadness
No one seeks sadness except if you're a teenage girl listening to Lana Del Rey. But it has one trait that is shared among other addictions: the difficulty in leaving it. Once you're in, it sort of drags you towards it. It's as if chronic sadness, self-loathing and self-hatred, drugs, and moral vices are like magnets: the more you partake in them, the more it is difficult to set yourself apart from them.

>ignoring youself
I've seen this happen closely. Something bad happens, and instead of facing it, the person chooses to distract him or her self (videogmaes, parties, drugs, movies etc). The sadness is still there, it has just not been heard it. It's been sweeped to under the carpet, and it is still waiting to receive attention. The thing is, the longer you take to give it attention, the harder it is to track the source of the pain, and then people think they're sad "just because".

>self-destructing yet compensatory behavior:
>I masturbate excessively to the point of self-loathing, but it gives my pee pee tingly feelings and I sometimes roll my eyes when I cum
>I always do shit when I drink but if I drink I can forget it, and then I do more shit and then drink again to forget it, ad infinitum

I think sometimes the label of depression can be a reason for depression by itself: although it disempowers you, making you less potent, it still gives you the comfort of at least having a somewhat acceptable reason to abdicate from your responsibilites.

I actually think that people are depressed because they don't struggle. If I dont exercise my body becomes filled with pain. We are hardwired to overcoming. What if we don't set ourself towards anything? Maybe the only thing that remains then for "life" is to create problems where there were none before, so that at least something can be overcame.

[Anonymous No.9719054]

>>9717725
That is pretty much having the brain be king. Not saying that it is or isn't, but if we consider the possbilty that maybe the brain is actinig that way BECAUSE the mind is acting in analogical way, then things change.

We can even consider a feedback loop. The brain acts the way the mind acts the way the brain acts the way the mind acts... and so forth and so on.

[Anonymous No.9719062]

>>9717658
Pretty sure its real, although I denied it existed all while wanting to hang myself in my father's closet, having delusions that everyone is looking at me and that the headlights on cars are staring at me. This is depression with psychotic features I would later find out. I would also feel like I was in a fishbowl sometimes.
Depression is real, treat it with psychotherapy and antidepressants and you can actually proceed to live your life instead of living in a daydream of perceived sadness and failure.

[Anonymous No.9719447]

>>9717658
have you ever considered that, perhaps, you have been very lucky and have had a very privileged life?
also, how old are you?

[Anonymous No.9719520]

>>9719447
wrong >>9717963

next

[Anonymous No.9719553]

>>9719520
perhaps you are a sociopath?

also
>poor
you know you can be poor and still have everything covered. being poor in a 1st world country may mean "my parents couldn't buy a PS4" vs having to sleep in the streets in some 3rd world country. poverty is relative.

[Anonymous No.9719575]

>>9719553
I don't believe in sociopaths

[Anonymous No.9719583]

>>9719575
>depression is a scam
>I don't believe in sociopaths
what do you believe, and why should we care? apparently, you are so retarded, you can't even take a dictionary and see what "sociopath" means
sounds like you are just trolling and making us waste time, without any intention of even discussing the concepts you don't believe in...

[Anonymous No.9719660]

>>9718345
Is this a surprising finding in your opinion? Have you ever conversed with "average" people?

[Anonymous No.9719887]

>>9717658
What's the vertical axis for?

[Anonymous No.9719892]

>>9719575
I don't believe in bait either ;)

[Anonymous No.9719893]

>>9719062
None of those symptoms are psychotic. Sounds more like autism desu

[Anonymous No.9720731]

>>9718890
Oh dear moshe

[Anonymous No.9720837]

>>9717882
I'm a math major and struggle to pass a lot of my upper level math classes, I consider myself to be in the bottom of the class most of the time. Every now and then I help some of my frat bros out with their calc 1 or precalc, it's so simple and obvious yet these guys struggle with it.

As I said I'm not very smart but I think there's a part of the population who are simply not wired to think logically about arbitrary things. This SAT math is used pretty regularly to determine intelligence but is it actually an accurate way to measure IQ?

[Anonymous No.9720910]

>>9719053
good post

[Anonymous No.9720934]

>>9720837
Math major grad here

I was middle of the pack for math majors in most of classes. We really take for granted our own intelligence and don't realize how inept the majority is.

Try explaining the very basics of a linear algebra proof to a normie. It's nearly impossible. Shit, it's a struggle to explain basic probability theory to people.

[Anonymous No.9720942]

Everyone knows that the world is perfectly just and fair and everything is about your personal choices and attitude. That book The Secret is the gospel truth about the universe. Whenever something bad happens to you, it is always your own fault and you just need to change your attitude.

[Anonymous No.9720943]

>>9720934
>the majority of people are stupid and I am not in the majority, therefore I am not stupid
wew lad

[Anonymous No.9720950]

>>9720934
Maybe you're just a bad pedagogue.

[Anonymous No.9721807]

>>9720934
I tried to explain basic algebra to a blue collar fag, he stared at me like i was the retard

[Anonymous No.9721824]

like others in this thread there is "little d" depression
and big "D" depression

depression
-high suicidal ideation
-brought about by stressors
-usually lasts less than a year
-"sadness"

Depression
-catatonia
-anhedonia- you literally feel nothing, and don't care
-medical complications like infections and such for disregarding activities of daily living
-possibly coupled with starvation


I know they have this thing called "medical student syndrome"
where the student , in learning about various maladies and diseases, projects it onto themselves.

this is more common with abnormal psychology. Especially since media has such a poor time explaining things like this.
So when a person hears that depression is a sadness that wont go away. or a not feeling anything
people, young people eager to put labels on themselves in an effort to understand themselves notice how they don't particularly "feel" stongly. so they say they have depression.
or there are doctors who memorized that stressors test, and once you have a big life stressor you talk with your doc about , they put you on anti-depressants.
sure it doesn't really any changes, or maybe you do feel changes--in that case welcome to that start of your bipolar existence--

many people confuse exhaustion, with depression. when depression has more of a deep subjective existential layer to it.

[Anonymous No.9721827]

>>9720942
the secret is ment as therapy for empowerment.

the whole "change your attitude" bit is actually a very important practise in cognitive behavioral therapy.

becuase life sometimes shits on us
for whatever reason.
and we can't stop it
we can't go back in time
and the long we avoid it. the more we suppress, and ferment the spiritual poison for a higher proof.
so in reality the only thing that we can change about what is happening to us, that is not within our power to control, is our attitude towards it.

its about that silver lining man.
and letting that shine through the bullshit.

[Anonymous No.9722159]

>>9717882
>512, 84, 8, 1
Maybe I'm a brainlet, but what's the pattern?

[Anonymous No.9722225]

>>9719887
Spacing, probably. It makes it easier to read than if they were tilted.

[Anonymous No.9722232]

I have never taken an inteligence test.
What's most reliable way to do it?

[Anonymous No.9722233]

>>9717658
Depression is caused by industrial society.

[Anonymous No.9722250]

>>9722159
>84
that dumbass meant to type (512, 64, 8, 1)
that’s a phenomenally fat finger lol

[Anonymous No.9722263]

>>9722159
divide by 8 ya brainlet

[Anonymous No.9722273]

>>9722233
BASED

[Anonymous No.9722295]

>>9722263
>84/8
>>9722250
You're probably right. Thanks

[Anonymous No.9723392]

>>9717951
I’m going with this,I believe I suffer from depression but I hide it and never tell anyone

[Anonymous No.9723461]

>>9717658
Yes.
>lobsters
When a lobster loses a fight it will not fight again and will leave the territory and become a doormat.
Given SSRI''s it will fight for itself again.
Serotonin levels clearly have a profound function on the brain at the most primal level

[Anonymous No.9723470]

>>9723461
>tasty sea cockroaches!
godammit

[Anonymous No.9723490]

>>9717978
>conveniently ignores the fact that his "argument" was destroyed
>moves the goalposts to another retarded "argument"

[Anonymous No.9723495]

>>9717951
>people with real depression dont ever broadcast it to people

[Anonymous No.9723547]

>>9723461
do you think a scientist would take this as evidence in support or against op? people lack critical thinking. this is the difference between a good and bad neuro paper. some vague supposition pretending to be a groundbreaking review, or something that uses intricate experimentation to isolate a good theory and make it concrete. this is what is needed. not ten thousand shitty review papers.

[Anonymous No.9723610]

>>9723461
>muh lobsters
kys peterson

[Anonymous No.9725242]

>>9717658
Depression is not a "scam" but the industry around it it is

[Anonymous No.9725302]

>>9717951
Well listen to me friendo. Depression is real I have it. And I told people about it. Psychiatrists and therapists and family and friends. And now its literally going to kill me because I plan on killing myself within the next month.

GF or no GF. Exercise or no exercise. Job or no Job. Money, friends, goals, nutrition it didn't matter. I have a disease. Hope that's proof enough.

[Anonymous No.9725413]

>>9722233
We should blow up all of the depressed people.