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/sci/ - Science & Math

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9629077 No.9629077 [Reply] [Original]

infinity isn't real.
change my mind.

>> No.9629084

>>9629077
Yes, it's just a mathematical construct with useful properties that produces applicable results when handled properly. Like all of them.

>> No.9629097

>>9629084
but it is a man-made construct and does not exist in nature.

>> No.9629143

>>9629077
>>9629097
Nothing mathematical is real.

>> No.9629149

>>9629097
Does five exist? Show me a real, tangible five. Not a 5, that's just a symbol that represents a five.

>> No.9629161

Define real

>> No.9629391

Define infinity

>> No.9629392

>>9629097
You mean like... math?

It's like any other language, just a way of expressing ideas. Defining patterns.

>> No.9629397

Sure it is. I use the word all the time.

>> No.9629402

>>9629077
I could.
But given your apparent stubbornness, I fear it would take me infinitely long.

>> No.9629405

good try, Wildberg

>> No.9629438

>>9629143
>>9629149
>>9629392
Philosophers win again, get fucked nerds

>> No.9629463

>>9629097
>but it is a man-made construct and does not exist in nature.
Yeah, infinity doesn't exist in nature, except for the way the entire universe began from an infinitely dense singularity.

>> No.9629512

>>9629463
>the entire universe began from an infinitely dense singularity
that's just some extrapolation in place of a state we can't ever observe. but that's the whole point.. you can't point to infinity-ness in any way other than mathematical conjecture.

>> No.9629548

>>9629077
OP, did you know there is a group of nutjobs out there who follow ultrafinitism? Their main belief is we fundamentally cannot understand how large numbers work, because we cannot comprehend what a large number of anything truly is. Therefor we cannot be confident large numbers behave in the same way as small numbers work, or even if they exist at all. Fundamentally because they are not tangible to us to comprehend.
This begs the question: Okay, well what is a "large" number? Is 10 a large number? Is 100 a large number? Is 1,000 a large number?
It's a nutjob theory, predominantly peddled by Alex Yessenin-Volpin, that does a shit job at criticizing mathematics. In fact, this very same exchange (is 1,000 a large number? example) happened between Volpin and a mainstream mathematician Harvey Friedman. The end result was the larger the number, the longer the time Volpin took to say "yes."
Nutjob theories: everyone has them.

>> No.9629617

>>9629438
It's not philosophy, it's just a fact. Aliens could have a totally different system of expressing the same thoughts/patterns.

>> No.9630015

>>9629617
what other systems could there be for expressing quantity

>> No.9630031
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9630031

IM SO FUCKING SICK OF THIS FUCKING SHIT
MATHEMATICS IS A REAL THING THAT COMES FROM THE PLATONIC REALM ANYONE WHO THINKS OTHERWISE NEEDS TO GET THE FUCK OUT
ITS NOT A LANGUAGE OR A CONSTRUCT BUT THE ONLY THING THAT EXISTS

>> No.9630071

>>9629077
thats what they dont teahc you in school... infinity is an approximation... becase we havent found the biggest number yet... but one day we will and im helping get there

>> No.9630084

>>9630031
kys pop sci fag

>> No.9630088

>infinity isn't real

is space real? then so is infinity.

>> No.9630090
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9630090

>>9630031
>It exists abstractly in my mind!

>> No.9630093

>>9630084
I study mathematics in college faggot
>>9630090
If you take any philosophy other than mathematical realism YOU are the brainlet.

>> No.9630098
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9630098

>>9630093
Show me the set of all natural numbers then brainlet.

>> No.9630101

>>9630098
>what are Peano's axioms.

>> No.9630111

>>9630101
>It exists because I say so!
Wow buddy, nothing wrong with that. At least von Newman construction is explicit in some sense.

>> No.9630195
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9630195

>>9629391
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=infinity
An unbounded quantity that is greater than every real number.

>> No.9630197

>>9630098
https://youtu.be/elvOZm0d4H0?t=2m

>> No.9630205

>>9629077
Zeno's paradox requires there to be an infinite series consisting of the times it takes to catch up with the turtle in each iteration, this is a quickly converging series though which allows Achilles to surpass the turtle.

>> No.9630216

As far as I'm aware infinity is just a useful mathematical construct. It captures the idea of unboundedness. For example the notion of infinity is useful for talking about limits. It can be easier to write and say that something 'tends to infinity' rather than 'we can take it as large as we want' (a phrase OP is familiar with).

I think it can be easy to overthink many mathematical constructs. Most things are about usefulness rather than some profound philosophical idea.

>> No.9630297

>>9630098
-1/12

>> No.9630299

>>9629077
It is not real by it's own definition.

>> No.9630379

>>9629077
>infinity isn't real.
>change my mind.
It's an extended real: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_real_number_line

>> No.9630388

>>9630098
Here you go: [math]\mathbb N[/math]

>> No.9630417

>>9630216
Limit, by definition, means a restriction.
Infinity is not useful under any method.
A limit without bounds is literally just unlimited.

>> No.9630418

>>9630093
>faggot
Why the homophobia?

>> No.9630421

>>9630205
Achilles doesnt catch or surpass the turtle. Sum 1/2^n doesn't surpass 1. For any real n, it never reaches 1 either. And since real n are all that can be achieved, fill in the blank.

>> No.9630422

>>9630417
Yes, a limit without bounds does not exist. What about limits at infinity, why aren't they useful?

>> No.9630426

>>9630421
So you're saying that Achilles will never catch up to the turtle?

>> No.9630434
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9630434

>>9630426

>> No.9630435

Do you mean infinity as a concept isn't real, as in mathematicians are wrong when they talk about infinity; or do you mean that nothing that is actually infinite exists?

If you mean the first one, then that's pretty easy to disprove because we all know that you can keep writing a number and never stop, there will never be a point where you cannot add more digits to the number.

As for the second one, I think that whatever caused the Big Bang has to be infinite in its nature because time did not exist before the Big Bang.

>> No.9630437

>>9630434
Do you think Achilles will catch up to the turtle, yes or no?

>> No.9630440
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9630440

>>9630437

>> No.9630449

>>9630440
>Achilles doesnt catch or surpass the turtle.
Is this your answer?

>> No.9630484

>>9630015
the basic, informal and intuitive (for humans at least, might not be so for other instances of highly intelligent life) of quantity is hardly the whole of mathematics. Or even particularly relevant to modern mathematics.

>> No.9630796

>>9630449
You will never catch or surpass me. This is your solution.

>> No.9630856
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9630856

>>9630421

>> No.9630869

This is why Physishits need to be gassed.

>> No.9630877

>>9629077
2 isnt real either than. Change my mind.

>> No.9630895

>>9629077
>philosophical concept of something uncountable does not exist
no it does not in the real world

>> No.9630971

>>9629149
5 is an integer, it can be thought of as a ratio of quanta. The smallest unit of electromagnetic energy is the photon. That is ONE photon. The next highest amount of electromagnetic energy is TWO photons, etc. So for numbers to apply to space, there must be a quanta of space that all physics is relative to (and the same for time). I argue that for math to exist, the quanta of space and time must also exist. Even irrational numbers can be represented as limits of rational numbers, and since rational numbers are ratios relative to a base unit, math requires a base unit in whatever it is applied. The smallest unit of anything is its base unit. A meter would be measured as an integer number of the quanta of space. Debate me nerds. Philosophy, science, and math all together will illuminate truth.

>> No.9630988

>>9629077
Space is infinite

>> No.9630992

>>9629077

It's real in maths but not in physics.

>> No.9631051

>>9630417
Sequences are natural things to study. One might ask what happens to the sequence 1, 1/2, 1/3, .... For convenience we write this sequence as {1/n} where n is understood to be a positive natural number. Our question can now be rephrased as what happens when we let n grow without bound. What do the terms of the sequence do, will they get 'closer' to some number? We can rephrase this as what do the terms 1/n tend to when n tends to infinity. We could have easily and compactly written this in the usual limit notation that we are all used to and it's intent would be unambiguous. It just makes things easier to write.

>> No.9631356

>>9630971
>The smallest unit of electromagnetic energy is the photon
The energy of a photon is a function of its frequency. So what is the lowest frequency a photon can have?

>> No.9631419

>>9630195
Define "An unbounded quantity". Define the relation you are using to compare this "unbounded quantity" to real numbers.

>> No.9631872

>>9630895
What is the equation for love?

>> No.9631887

>>9630449
he obviously easily passes sicne he is much faster so that thought experiment is confirmed bullshit

>> No.9631924

>>9629077
Humans invented the concept of time. If humans die, all of time dies with them.

>>9630031
Math is a very inaccurate way of quantifying the real world. It has no real bearing on the real world because of that. As such, all math is based on lies.

>> No.9633274

>>9629077
it is as real as the number 1.
Proposal :
reality is whatever outcome impress your senses the same way it impress other people. what those impressions are or are not is up to those group of people to decide. Science is a way to decide what those impressions are using mechanisms and processes to magnify reality iproving the certanty of that experience to a point that prediction is possible.

I like to think about numbers as generalizations. They are like words, we generalize physical objects into words so multiple people can reference those objects in a certain way. So a number is a generalization of quantity, And infinity is a generalization of quantity under a very specific rules. we can experience infinity by logic. and its a tool that helps to predict certain outcomes.

>> No.9633277

>>9630031
>MATHEMATICS IS A REAL THING THAT COMES FROM THE PLATONIC REALM
>platonic
>real
pick one.

>> No.9633286

>>9633274
in conclusion numbers are real they work as points of confluence of impressions of quantity. Infinity is a generalization of a logic experience.

>> No.9633290

>>9629077
>infinity isn't real.
Why the apeirophobia?

>> No.9633337

>>9631924
I suggest you kill yourself.

>> No.9633414

>>9631419
>>9630856