Quantcast
[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / g / ic / jp / lit / sci / tg / vr ] [ index / top / reports / report a bug ] [ 4plebs / archived.moe / rbt ]

If you can see this message, the SSL certificate expiration has been fixed.
Become a Patron!

/sci/ - Science & Math


View post   

[ Toggle deleted replies ]
File: 14 KB, 265x190, download.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
9582914 No.9582914 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

The marked letters should be removed.

C is basically an arbitrary use of K and S.
Can > Kan, Cum > Kum, Center > Senter

J is basically Y
Jack > Yak, Job > Yob.
Also we should stop calling Y as "wuai" instead of it's proper pronunciation "JJJ".

Q is basically a lazy mix of KW.

B and V are literally the same and are mostly used randomly except for a couple of rules.

>> No.9582917

A plan for the improvement of spelling in the English language

By Mark Twain

For example, in Year 1 that useless letter "c" would be dropped
to be replased either by "k" or "s", and likewise "x" would no
longer be part of the alphabet. The only kase in which "c"
would be retained would be the "ch" formation, which will be
dealt with later. Year 2 might reform "w" spelling, so that
"which" and "one" would take the same konsonant, wile Year 3
might well abolish "y" replasing it with "i" and iear 4 might
fiks the "g/j" anomali wonse and for all.

Generally, then, the improvement would kontinue iear bai iear
with iear 5 doing awai with useless double konsonants, and iears
6-12 or so modifaiing vowlz and the rimeiniing voist and unvoist
konsonants. Bai iear 15 or sou, it wud fainali bi posibl tu meik
ius ov thi ridandant letez "c", "y" and "x"— bai now jast a
memori in the maindz ov ould doderez —tu riplais "ch", "sh", and
"th" rispektivili.

Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers ov orxogrefkl riform, wi wud hev
a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld.

>> No.9582968

>>9582917
It might look satirical and alien if you're a retard who only knows English, but that typing is similar to what you see in French and Greek.

>> No.9582970

>>9582914
>B and V are literally the same and are mostly used randomly except for a couple of rules.

t. mexican

>> No.9582980

>>9582968
It really isnt, amerifat.

>> No.9582986

>>9582917
mark twain never had to write touch

>> No.9582991

>>9582914
Agreed apart from Y/J (although I'd consider squishing Y and I) and B/V. I'd also consider getting rid of X for ks

>> No.9582994

What you faggots never understand is that languages constantly change, and English especially since it's spreading. If the spelling is constantly changed to reflect the pronounciation, an average person wouldn't be able to read a text from the past. People in one place would have a harder time undesrtanding written English from any other part of the world. The strength of the English language is that a very large number of people all other the world understand eachother, especially in writing. Languages like Korean can have these perfect spelling sytems due to it being relatively indepedent of other languages around it, and due to its agglutinative grammar. Meanings can be inferred more easily from word structure simply because of the regular morphology. English is not that. English is a hot mess if you try to make sense of it through phonology and morphology. You would be better off trying to implement a logographic writing system like Chinese has in English than a perfectly regular spelling system.

>> No.9583004

>>9582914
you can't control how idiots communicate..

>> No.9583006

>>9582994
>and English especially since it's spreading
It's reducing in America.

>> No.9583012

>>9583006
Source?

>> No.9583018
File: 173 KB, 500x500, 14962412_10101376378568823_803683637_n.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
9583018

>>9583012

>>/pol/

>> No.9583020

ko tavla fo lo jbobau

>> No.9583028

>>9582917
It sounds interesting.

>> No.9583052

>>9582914
>B and V are literally the same and are mostly used randomly except for a couple of rules.

You'll probably be shocked, but B and V represent completely different sounds. I suppose your first language is Spanish or Japanese.

>> No.9583108
File: 275 KB, 600x600, 1506859802687.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
9583108

>>9582914
>Spelling only exists to describe pronunciation

>> No.9583117

>the inevitable march to binary code

>> No.9583121

>>9582914
language is also about beauty

>> No.9583124

>>9582914
Remove also U, X and W and then you get the malagasy alphabet, but it's only because we are probably the laziest people on earth.

>> No.9583132

>>9583012
>For English, press 1. Para Español, marque número 2

>> No.9583140

>>9583132
>pour service en français, appuyer sur le deux

>> No.9583147

>>9582914
t. Brainlet

>> No.9583445
File: 406 KB, 827x1198, 0QtmGeK.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
9583445

Sprecht lieber Deutsch ihr Optimierungshurensöhne.

>> No.9583457

>>9582914
Oh man, I love this topic. But thats not at all how j is pronounced you neanderthal. People need to be retrained to drop the notion that G can be pronounced in a 'juh' way, because G is a back of the mouth sound and 'jay' is a front mouth sound. J should never have a 'yuh' pronunciation. B and V arent remotely the same you worthless insult to language. Q I would put up the the chopping block. I would argue though, that C should be stripped of its 'sss' pronunciation, and just be 'cuh', and K should be dropped because of its low uses and ease of replacement by default c.

So drop K and Q, and we're good. My issue with that is just that 24 is a bad amount of letters. It has relativity to hours in a day, but I feel like the amount of letters should have relativity to metric and end in either 5 or 0.

>> No.9583475
File: 63 KB, 480x373, 40f125607482a8e36f34738b94914c11.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
9583475

Lautschrift!

>> No.9584082

>>9582914
>newspeak
also you're clearly using spanish consonant sounds, there are very clear differences between 'J' and 'Y'

>> No.9584086

>>9582914
vacon and vacation

>> No.9584089

>>9582914
Etymology! Do you know it?

>> No.9584094
File: 241 KB, 362x480, maga_pepe_large.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
9584094

>>9582914
>yob
you gotta go back.

>> No.9584095
File: 79 KB, 615x600, IMG_1748.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
9584095

>>9582914
Language is as fluid, organic, and malleable as the humans that produce it: omitting entire letters complicates far more than it simplifies.

>> No.9584165

wouldnt more letters that have semi redundancies reduce the number of homonyms , ergo reducing ambiguity, the more complicated a language the more apt to describe things i would think

>> No.9584173

If anything we should add more letters in english since at the moment we have five vowels making like ten different noises with very little indication
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_phonology

>> No.9587952

>>9584165
>homonyms
why the homophobia?

>> No.9588559

>>9582914
>english is so easy that they have more letters that they really need.

>> No.9588803

Yeah I agree

We don't been C = K

We don't need Q = Kw

We don't need X = Eks

but then people say we should make a letter for Th and Ch,

>> No.9588878

Remove C and K, replacing them with Q. Merge V, U and W. Merge G and H. Delete Y. Merge X and Z.

>> No.9588911

>>9582914
>J is basically Y
Jew=You

>> No.9588930

>>9582914
>C is basically an arbitrary use of K and S.
>Can > Kan, Cum > Kum, Center > Senter

Fair enough.

>J is basically Y
>Jack > Yak, Job > Yob.

Jack and Yak are not pronounced the same, nor are Job and Yob.

>Also we should stop calling Y as "wuai" instead of it's proper pronunciation "JJJ".

Why? Also, is that "jayjayjay?" That's retarded.

>Q is basically a lazy mix of KW.
Fair enough.

>B and V are literally the same and are mostly used randomly except for a couple of rules

"Jove" is not pronounced the same as "Jobe," "veer" is easily distinguishable from "beer" because they are not pronounced the same. You are just wrong here.

>> No.9588933

>>9588803
We already have those. Th would be Þ and ch would be x.

K is ugly and c should replace it instead of the reverse.

>> No.9588936

>>9582968
>but that typing is similar to what you see in French and Greek.

Now there are two peoples we ought to emulate.

>> No.9588948

>>9583132
My favorite in this area is keypads that have a button marked "Yes/ si," and a corresponding one marked "No / no." I guess Spanish speakers can't read the first "no" because it is in English.

>> No.9588956
File: 75 KB, 388x295, clever girl.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
9588956

>>9588911

>> No.9588963
File: 72 KB, 812x577, cows head iceland.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
9588963

>>9588933
Iceland please go.

>> No.9589006

>>9582914
consider a cost benefit analysis of this:

benefits: bad spellers will no longer have to rely on autocorrect / word
cost: ridiculous financial costs due to the need to modify a vast amount of software, ambiguity about "correct" spelling (e.g. see UK/US english differences), a third standard for english which is unlikely to be adopted ubiquitously, inconsistencies between each version of english (since there will be 4 now, UK/US new/old english), and the need to update every text book, etc.

basically, you're worrying about redundancies when removing them will cost more than you'd make in a thousand life times.

>> No.9589158

>>9582914
All the spelling is fucked. As you say, drop those letters, but also respell most things to give an actual system instead of just random shit. Spelling can't be phonetic due to different dialects, but it can be much more clearer and systematic.

>> No.9589171

>>9582914
English has a lot more sounds than letters. You can't indicate pronunciation with letters alone. English has like 50-60 sounds depending on dialect, as well as extra things like stress and rhythm. Ideally, you keep most if not all letters and simple respell/refactor them in a more consistent way, and in a way more aligned to those sounds (will never work phonetically due to differing dialects and regularly-changing pronunciation).

>> No.9589178

>>9582968
French? French is spoken as it's written?
Like "eau"?
Maybe french is better than english but still terrible.
Id rather say german or dutch has little deviation from the written sounds.

>> No.9589239

>>9589178
>eau
Somehow it bothers me more when one letter corresponds to different sounds (like c for k and s) than when one sound can be written with different letters (like eau and o for o).

>> No.9589247

What about all the variants of the sounds these letters make?

>> No.9589271

I've often wondered how much ink the world would save if all words that started with "ex-" just dropped the "e" and if words like "through" were just spelled "thru."

Also, when the fuck is "alright" going to become ok to use? I fucking hate those all- words. "Alright" isn't a word, but altogether, almost, always, already, etc are. The fuck? Also, each other should just be "eachother."

>> No.9589272

Nuke, nut and pull all use the vowel 'u' to describe a different sound.

Since 'u' sounds closest to nuke, I would keep the spelling of 'nuke' and alter the other two versions. For instance, nut could become 'nuht', fuck could become 'fuhck' and since 'pool' is the elongated version of 'pull', pull could become 'pohl'.

However, alternative approaches could be chosen. For me, it makes sense to add a mute h, in the same way French does it because English already naturally use the sounds 'uh' and 'oh' without actually pronouncing the letter 'h'.

But I also enjoy the idea of replacing the original sound of the vowel 'u' to the sound the 'u' has in 'nut', in which case we could describe the sound the letter 'u' has in the word 'nuke' with the combination 'ew', given that we already use it for example in 'new'. That way we can keep 'fuck' and instead change 'nuke' into 'newke'.

Both, the letter 'c' and the combination 'ck' are useless. They can both be represented with the letter 'k'. The letter 'e' at the end of the word 'nuke' is also unnecessary. With this in mind, we can now change 'fuck' to become 'fuhk', or respectively 'fuk' while turning 'nuke' into 'nuk', respectively 'newk'.

There's a lot more than can be changed, but having consistency in vowels is probably more relevant than removing the letter 'J', 'Y' or 'V'.

>> No.9589283
File: 16 KB, 232x218, 87200_orig.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
9589283

>How do you want your language?
>Just French my shit up
>I got you senpai

>> No.9589288

>>9582914
I got better idea
Make English into phonetic language like most of languages in the world and actually teach people how to pronounce stuff in schools

>> No.9589291

>>9589288
Fuck accent marks honestly. That's really the only reason English is so "difficult." We just don't use faggot accent marks on every fucking vowel.

>> No.9589307

>>9582914
shit like this is why no one takes /sci/ seriously

>> No.9589316

>>9589272
Also, another alternative for the sound the 'u' represents in 'pull' could be taken from the word 'could', namely the 'ou', making 'pull' become 'poul'.

Though, I am against completely removing the letter 'c' because there's instances in which one can distinguish the same word for different meaning:

The words 'since' and 'sins' sound exactly the same. Establishing a rule in which the last 's' is swapped with a 'c' makes sense. But again, those ending 'e''s are pointless and should be removed. The word 'since' should become 'sinc'. Given that 'k' always represents 'kay' from a previous change, noone would confuse 'sinc' with 'sink'.

But now another issue faces. What if we wish to distinguish 'sink' from 'sync', which has now become 'synk'. If we remove the 'y', we'd have, once again, identical spelling. It would make sense to keep these exceptional letters for exceptional cases like this one.

>> No.9589332

>having to relearn how to type

I'd rather keep the letters, thanks.

>> No.9589334

>>9589307
I wish they would take us more seriously. After all, it's a science board on a Mongolian papier mache site, we should be taken seriously.

>> No.9589409

>>9583108
This.

English is like a beautiful, old wooden cabinet. Layers of history and experience colour the modern language.

Phonetic spelling is boring.

>> No.9589413

>>9589316
> The words 'since' and 'sins' sound exactly the same
What? No they don't.

>> No.9589484

>>9589291
No, the reason is that pronunciation of similar words is unexpectedly different.
Like recipe and recite.
Adding accents would clarify things but it would remain uselessly complex.

Pronunciation is what should be fixed. We should teach pronunciation according to spelling instead of changing spelling to match pronunciation.

>> No.9589532

>>9589484
How are you going to reconcile all the international English accents, and the 6x10^23 native English accents?

>> No.9589543

>>9582914
1) Shorten words
comfortable -> comfy, mathematics -> math, biology -> bio

2) spell vowels like Italian and remove silent letters.
knife -> naif, island -> ailénd, paper -> peipr, queue -> kyuu, oh->ou, foot -> fuut, bee -> bii

3) sc, ce -> s
science -> saiens

4) ph, gh -> f
phone -> foun, laugh -> laef,

5) k,c,q, ck -> k
cuck -> kak, queue -> kyuu

6) th -> fs or vz
thought -> fsot, though ->vzou

7) ti(on), sh, ssi(on)-> c
passion -> paecn. shoes -> cuuz, lotion -> loucn.

8) ch, tch -> 'c
cheese -> 'ciiz, catch -> kae'c

9) zi -> j.
vizion -> vijn.

10) j, ge -> 'j
joe -> jou, george -> 'jor'j

11) wh -> w or h
what -> wat, who -> hu

12) x -> ks


>>9589413 >>9589316
since -> sins
sins -> sinz

>> No.9589559 [DELETED] 

>>9589543
>12) x -> ks
12) x -> ks, gz, z

relax -> rilaekx
exile -> egzile
xenophobia -> zinofoubia

>> No.9589564

>>9589543
>12) x -> ks
12) x -> ks, gz, z

relax -> rilaeks
exile -> egzile
xenophobia -> zinofoubia

>>9589413 >>9589316
cats -> kaets
dogs -> dogz

>> No.9589602

>>9589543
> shorten words
'Comfortable' and 'comfy' do not mean the same thing, and are each useful in different contexts and formalities. The same can be said of 'math' and 'mathematics'. 'Bio' is silly.

> sc, ph, etc.
You have picked your own pronunciations for this phoneticisation: not all English accents will pronounce like this

Your 'laugh' ('laef') is different to my 'laugh' ('laff'). Your 'cuck' ('kak') is different to my 'cuck' ('kuk'). Etc.

Whose accent is 'standard'?

>> No.9589683

>>9589602
The Queen's.

>> No.9589745

>>9589602
>Whose accent is 'standard'?
t. Queen's English >>9589683

>> No.9589939

>>9589683
>>9589745
What time period?

The Queen has gone from an RP in the 1940/150s to a Southern Counties/Estuary English nowadays.

>> No.9589965

>>9582914
J and Y don't sound anything alike
Neither do B or V
I agree with C and Q

>> No.9589966

>>9582968
>t. never read a sentence of french in his life
go fuck yourself, faggot

>> No.9589997

>>9583457
thank the fucking stars that autistic retards like you have no say over what actually happens with important languages (or anything of importance with the world)

>> No.9590023

>>9589288
>like most of languages in the world
retard

>> No.9590027

>>9589532
he won't, because he's an autistic faggot who no one in the real world will ever take seriously (thank god)

>> No.9590059

>>9589939
Today. Current time period.

>> No.9590092
File: 56 KB, 414x414, Amerimutt Princess.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
9590092

>>9589939 >>9589745 >>9589683
No It should be the
FUTURE QUEEN's dialect

Gheto Afro Amerimutt Nigger Ebonics

>> No.9590451

>>9582968
>French
no... anon? No.

>> No.9591480

>>9582914
>Not knowing your simplified mouth sound chart in 2017+1.
Colums are Lips / Tooth Tip / Tooth base / Hard palate / soft palate.
Rows are hard and soft stop the two types of fricatives and then nasal

P | S | T |ch | K
B | Z | D | J | G
F | . | θ |sh |
V | . | ð | zh |
M| . | N

>> No.9591487

>>9582914
Jack pronounced Yak.

You absolute savage, how dare you

>> No.9591490

>>9582917
is this proof that ebonics really is a language? some of this looks similar to what I see on black twitter

>>
Name (leave empty)
Comment (leave empty)
Name
E-mail
Subject
Comment
Password [?]Password used for file deletion.
Captcha
Action