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/sci/ - Science & Math

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9540384 No.9540384 [Reply] [Original]

>Hear people talk all the time about how enlightening math and logic is
>Take pure maths class to learn the truths of our world
>It begins with a whole grocery list of things you have to accept on blind faith
How do they get away with this shit?

>> No.9540388

and they don't even include the axiom of choice, they just expect you'll accept it without them even mentioning it even though it's the worst one

>> No.9540401

These concepts they're assigning are still concepts, just streamlined and a bit simplified for the sake of time and efficiency. If you really want to understand why you're having to learn these things, you can go through the proofs by yourself for hours on end.

>> No.9540405
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9540405

>>9540401
>proofs
>of axioms

>> No.9540409

you dont' actually need all that stuff to do mathematics, it's just that most of the mathematics you'll probably want to do are encoded in this axiomatic system

>> No.9540411

>>9540405
i assumed anon meant proofs of important theorems using the axioms in order to justify them

>> No.9540419
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9540419

>>9540411
>hey this theorem is probably right
>that means all the baseless assumptions I use to come up with it are totally justified

>> No.9540434

>>9540384
you should fuck off and make your own math with your own rules, that will show them!

>> No.9540438

>>9540419
Well, math is all about figuring out what happens when we make certain assumptions. We're not necessarily saying that math gives us true statements about the world, unless you're a disgusting platonist.

>> No.9540439

>>9540434
F-fuck off!
I don't want to hear any criticisms of the system I am indoctrinated into!

>> No.9540440
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9540440

>axiom
What a fucking shitty buzzword.

>> No.9540441

>>9540388
>axiom
This is a meaningless notion.

>> No.9540442

>>9540440
It's an important concept, Groyper.

>> No.9540444

>>9540441
I agree, but it's still useful.

>> No.9540447
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9540447

>>9540384
>faith is bad

>>>/reddit/ is that way

>> No.9540449

>>9540439
yeah, not like those axioms and math by extension are useful for anything
you're just arguing pointless philosophy

>> No.9540457

>>9540449
Well, probably 99% of mathematics is useless, but it's still fun. Math is primarily a form of art.

>> No.9540463

>too stupid to take modern art class
>have to take pure math instead

>> No.9540601

>>9540384
You don't believe or disbelieve mathematical axioms, you either use them or you don't.

>> No.9540605

>>9540457
>Math is primarily a form of art.
Wrong.

>> No.9540620

math is fantasies constrained by the fantasies of rules of inference

>> No.9540621

>>9540384
most professional mathematicians probably wouldn't even be able to name all ZF axioms
just because we can encode mathematics in them doesn't make them fundamental to the way people think about mathematics.

>> No.9540628

>>9540463
kek

>> No.9540641

>>9540419
There's no meaningful true statement/theorem you can make that doesn't necessitate some sortof assumptions/axioms.

>> No.9540646

>>9540641
>There's no meaningful true statement/theorem you can make that doesn't necessitate some sortof assumptions/axioms.
This is a meaningless notion.

>> No.9540686

>>9540384
>learns all truths require assumptions about the nature of truth
>doesn't find it enlightening
think harder, anon

>> No.9540692

I hate ZFC, most of them aren't even axioms, their more like definitions.

>> No.9540710

It's not about blind faith. Mathematics doesn't seek to display fundamental truths, but displays useful truths given certain assumptions.

>> No.9540844

>>9540384
You're looking at it the wrong way. Look at what these axioms can build - what can yours do? All mathematical truth begins with "if", deal with it.

>> No.9540856
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9540856

>>9540384
>Recognizing truth is conditional and clearly defining the conditions you're working in terms of up front is a bad thing.
Get back to your fry hopper, wagie.

>> No.9540872
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9540872

>>9540384
I keep telling people that Math is Lies, but no one believes me.