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/sci/ - Science & Math


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9512573 No.9512573 [Reply] [Original]

When did you realise that Pi should have been set up as the ratio of the radius and the circumference?
http://www.math.utah.edu/~palais/pi.html
Are you on team tau?

>> No.9512576

>>9512573
No one fucking cares.

>> No.9512579

>>9512573
When did you realize you have to be an absolute brainlet if a factor of 2 makes a significant difference to how you think about mathematics?

>> No.9512585

>>9512579
>liking arbitrary 2s floating around

>> No.9512648

Why is 90% of the shitposting on 4chan using Apple filenames?

>> No.9512681

>>9512648
iPhone posting

>> No.9512696
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9512696

>> No.9512708

>>9512585
>liking arbitrary 2s floating around
It is arbitrary, as in it's arbitrary whether you use radius or circumference. Neither one is less arbitrary than the other, there's a bunch of retarded arguments you can make for either one being more "natural," and none of it matters because whichever one you choose it's the same thing unless you're retarded enough to be thrown off by a factor of 2.

>> No.9512715
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9512715

When did you realize a full finite turn shouldn't be an infinite irrational number.
Pi and tau are both gay.

>> No.9512716

>>9512573
I solved for pi using two number rhythms and realized there are two Pi. One is generally accepted as. The other used for engineering. Makes no sense...but...

>> No.9512720

>>9512716
The idea is that Pi is the refinement of its previous given set of numbers. 3.14...they all add up to 10 digit after the decimal. From there another rhythm is used.

>> No.9512730

>>9512720
The 7+8, 9+10 = 100.
Then it’s like a type writer that has to be pushed back. You’ll realize Pi tries to find perfection and not 99.999999

>> No.9512740

>>9512720
>>9512730
Can you go into more detail with this? Because it sounds really interesting but I also have no idea at all what you're talking about with just those couple of sentences you've written so far. Like maybe expand on how exactly "they all add up to 10" with the specific numbers that add up written out. And also I don't get what "7+8, 9+10 = 100" means. I see 7+8 and think 15, and I see 9+10 and think 19, and neither of those things has anything to do with 100 as far as I can tell, so I could use some clarification there.

>> No.9512741
File: 18 KB, 282x152, pi_vs_tau.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9512741

>being a pilet
>being a taulet
>not using the new and improved compromise pau
ugh...

>> No.9512802

>>9512576
Pidf pls go

>> No.9512811

>>9512708
One is an irrational number plus a numeral. The other is an irrational number. One is simpler. Why are you attached to pi?

>> No.9512878

>>9512579
So it doesn't matter? How about we start dividing all the constants by 17 and using 1/17(constant) for everything then scaling it back up after? That's retarded right? So is this

Math is a language, the language we use to describe it is malformed.

>> No.9512912

>>9512878
Why hasn’t this been changed?

>> No.9512913

>>9512741
>>/reddit/

>> No.9512928
File: 19 KB, 394x272, cosine-with-tau.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9512928

>>9512912
Convention. It's not even like a "breaking change" so to speak, we can just start changing convention if we wanted to but people don't.

>> No.9512932
File: 255 KB, 523x808, fact-005-embrace-the-tau.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9512932

>>9512928
Tau is objectively superior, the only argument against it is "who cares, you're a brainlet if you care"

Science and math are supposed to be aesthetic and beautiful. Pi isn't, Tau is.

If you don't care about this, you don't care about math.

>> No.9512936

>>9512811
>One is an irrational number plus a numeral. The other is an irrational number.
?????????????????????????????????
Are you trying to claim pi isn't an irrational number? What the fuck are you even getting at here? There isn't anything inherently "simpler" about 2pi compared to pi, there are comparable arguments you can make for either one being more "natural," there is no absolute argument you can make that one is "right" and the other is "wrong."

>> No.9512939

>>9512936
Okay anon let me deconstruct your argument. I say we start using 1/48959 pi as the official constant

...Explain to me how this is fine if you claim that "there is no absolute argument you can make that one is right and the other is wrong"

You're wrong, there is an argument. It's easy to communicate if we compress information in the way that is easiest to transmit between brains, either through spoken or written language. Objectively, if you wanted to express a bunch of mathematics in the form of formulas, the syntactic complexity of using pi over tau results in additional 2 and 1/2 constants strewn all over, increasing the compressed size of the text and increasing the amount of information units per equation that need to be processed by the brain to understand it

There is NO rational reason to be using pi over tau except for convention. Scientists and mathematicians pride themselves over moving forward and embracing reality and superior methods over tradition - why not do so here?

>You're a brainlet if you can't do all math with slide rules, we don't need computers
>You're a brainlet if you find it annoying to keep track of extra 1/2 and 2 constants on almost every single equation related to pi, we don't need tau

There is no competition here

>> No.9512941

it's just an irrational number there's lots of those

>> No.9512971

>>9512573
Only heard about this today, but I'm interested. What're the arguments for both sides?

>> No.9512979

>>9512971
It's completley irrelevant.

>> No.9512984

>>9512979
Are there really any downsides besides people not wanting to change? Tau = C/r sounds good to me, and it makes trig more intuitive.

>> No.9513010

>>9512936
No...
I’m saying that tau is easier to work with than 2pi (more intuitive, less to write)

>> No.9513012

>>9513010
I second this. Now that the topic has been raised, it's a bit odd that this has never been talked about before.

>> No.9513019

pi vs tau is a liberal arts tier argument

>> No.9513021

>>9512984
What? If you are serious then you don't understand trig.

>> No.9513025

>>9513021
Is there really a reason why we are using pi rather than tau? I understand that pi has a long and distinguished tradition, but really, tau seems like a good thing

>> No.9513030

>>9513025
It makes absolutley no diference. This thread is filled with reddit cancer.

>> No.9513035

>>9513030
No, really, what's the big deal? Are you low in trait openness? That's fine if you are, but I can tell you that his examples of replacing pi with its tau equivalent actually helped me understand those formulas better, which seems to be a common experience. The world isn't going to end if we use tau instead of pi. This is a safe place, anon.

>> No.9513058

>>9513035
The definition of the geometric objects are completley independent of those constants. There's literally nothing to understand. The diference in computing time for a calculator is null, and if you are doing pure math you will never calculate it. I really don't care if we use tau or pi, but the point is that it will not afect math in any way.

>> No.9513066

>>9513058
Well, I guess I'd have to ask what makes something worth doing for you, as there have been several arguments put forward about the utility of tau when teaching maths, and simplifying our equations for trigonometry, particularly wrt special triangles. That seems like a good enough reason for me to use tau, so I'm not sure what the issue is. Like you said, the world doesn't change, but its an elegant little notational adjustment that could help some people, so let's make the change.

>> No.9513080

>>9513066
If you think changing from pi to tau makes you understand better trig and geometry in general then I'm completley sure you are not understanding shit, because the concepts themselves are independent of how you are measuring. They could divide the circle into 10000 parts and it still wouldn't make no difference at the conceptual level. For changing notation, that's completley sensitive to the problem you are solving and some formulas "look" better with pi or with tau, but that has nothing to do with math.

>> No.9513089

>>9513080
I was literally only referring to Euler's identity re: understanding things better. Perhaps it was because the idea of using e^(i*theta) as a rotation coefficient in the complex plane was never explained to me, but that really doesn't change the fact that people find tau easier and more intuitive. As someone studying applied math at uni, it is far easier to understand *why* sin(tau/2) = 1, because you don't have the extra '2' floating around from defining circumference as 2*pi*r instead of tau*r.

5/8 b8, got me to reply

>> No.9513096

>>9513089
>sin(tau/2)=1
You sure showed me there pal. What a brilliant intuition you have.

>> No.9513103

>>9513096
oh ffs, that should have been tau/4, you know what I bloody meant.

>> No.9513105

>>9513103
No, because your fucking explanation as to why it should be 1 makes no sense even with the correct value. Tell me, just what the fuck do you think a radian is?

>> No.9513122

>>9512696
Shit man, that’s awesome

>> No.9513166 [DELETED] 

if you believe the best contribution to the world you could possibly make is to redefine pi as pi/2, you ought to study more

>> No.9513257

>>9512573
In exponential calculus there is an advantage if you write pi with half a radius

>> No.9513311

>>9512573
We already had the solution to this debate by the end of the 19th century (I gather from OPs pic): write 2π/4 instead of π/2