Athiest + believe in free will?

[Anonymous No.9483571]

How is it possible that there are people who were "intelligent" enough to become atheists, but also are so retarded as to believe in "free will" i.e. NOT determinism

It seems silly to me that someone is willing to reject religion despite its opiate effect, yet reject determinism because of their stupid feelings (something they would never admit)

[Anonymous No.9483577]

>but also are so retarded as to believe in "free will" i.e. NOT determinism
Belief in free will is the more rational position.

[Anonymous No.9483579]

Compatibilism master race

[Anonymous No.9483590]

>>9483571
>"intelligent" enough to become atheists

>>>/reddit/atheism is that way retard

[Anonymous No.9483591]

Because they can't cope with the fact that they're not free. Society hinges on the delusion that people have their own wills.

>>9483577
Belief in free will is completely 100% irrational. All you have to do is trace evolution backward to see how absurd it is. At what arbitrary point in evolutionary history did these magic free will particles pop into existence?

[Anonymous No.9483594]

>>9483579
Compatibilism is just as retarded for the same exact reason. Accepting determinism because it is undeniable yet still holding on to free will because that's what you want to be true.

Please kill yourself spineless idiot. You can't believe whatever you want and be scientific at the same time.

[Anonymous No.9483602]

>>9483591
>At what arbitrary point in evolutionary history did these magic free will particles pop into existence?
Is this supposed to be an argument? Something can't exist unless you can point to the specific moment evolution developed it?

There was a time when nothing could fly, and a time when nothing could see, and a time nothing had free will.

We're far beyond all of those times.

[Anonymous No.9483606]

>>9483571
This depends entirely on how a person defines free will. Nobody denies that there is some phenomenon where people make "choices." In that sense free will is apparent. When the mechanism of choice can be reduced to other phenomena, some people consider that to mean free will doesn't exist. The people who claim choice is irreducible are idiots, obviously. But I'm pretty sure a sizeable minority of the people who believe in 'free will' only believe in the obvious, superficial sense in which we make choices.

[Anonymous No.9483607]

>>9483602
Are you really this delusional? Flying doesn't violate physics, free will does.

[Anonymous No.9483609]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will#Believing_in_free_will

>A recent 2009 survey has shown that compatibilism is quite a popular stance among those who specialize in philosophy (59%). Belief in libertarianism amounted to 14%.

>79 percent of evolutionary biologists said that they believe in free-will according to a survey conducted in 2007, only 14 percent chose no free will, and 7 percent did not answer the question.

[Anonymous No.9483610]

>>9483606
We obviously don't make choices, there's an illusion that we do.

[Anonymous No.9483611]

>>9483607
>Flying doesn't violate physics, free will does.
You'll have to elaborate.

[Anonymous No.9483617]

>>9483610
>We obviously don't make choices
Speak for yourself.

[Anonymous No.9483618]

>mfw OP doesn't have free will

[Anonymous No.9483621]

>>9483617
You think you make choices, but you don't. Sorry to be the barong of bad news.

[Anonymous No.9483629]

>>9483610
This is pure semantics. There is a class of events that the word "choice" clearly refers to, and you yourself use the word in this way all the time to communicate. Whether those events actually have any nondeterministic properties is a separate issue.

[Anonymous No.9483632]

>>9483611
What needs to be explained? Physical systems take input and give output. You need to propose a mechanism for free will, which is impossible because it's nonsense.

[Anonymous No.9483633]

>>9483571
What is this screencap from? Kind of surprising.

I used to be on the fence about the topic until I got into science; learning about genetics at the molecular level is what made me believe behavior is reliant on a combination of what genes you have and how you express them, based on environment. Change the variables and change the behavior in predictable ways.

[Anonymous No.9483638]

>>9483632
>What needs to be explained?
Why free will would "violate physics".

[Anonymous No.9483641]

atheism = no God

[Anonymous No.9483642]

>>9483633
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will#Believing_in_free_will

[Anonymous No.9483643]

>>9483633
What about psychology?

[Anonymous No.9483644]

>>9483642
Oh, I guess that should have been obvious by format lol thanks

[Anonymous No.9483650]

>>9483643
I don't know anything about psychology. Friends of mine more knowledgeable about the topic seem to agree with me, though.

Did you have a particular idea in mind that you think is important?

[Anonymous No.9483653]

>>9483638
Because physical systems are cause and effect. Between cause and effect there's no room for a will to magically impact the course of those events. Your brain takes input and gives output. If course when your brain does things you feel like "you" are doing them because "you" are that brain, but it's only an illusion. The course of your life could only have happened in one way, at no point did you determine anything that has happened to you.

[Anonymous No.9483654]

>>9483638
He literally just explained to you why freewill is not compatible with physics whatsoever.

Any decision you make is exactly determined by the state of your brain and it's chemical metabolism a few milliseconds ago. If you want to call that free will then have fun with that.

[Anonymous No.9483660]

>>9483654
>He literally just explained to you why freewill is not compatible with physics whatsoever.
I'm not a "he".

[Anonymous No.9483663]

>the eternal battle between those with free will and those who are predetermined to argue against free will rages on

[Anonymous No.9483664]

Is free will binary or a spectrum?

[Anonymous No.9483667]

>>9483663
making shitposts like this, even jokingly, shows that you think the argument is about feelings. Are you a conservative SJW?

[Anonymous No.9483666]

>>9483654
>Any decision you make is exactly determined by the state of your brain and it's chemical metabolism a few milliseconds ago.
What if I make a decision based on a coin flip?

[Anonymous No.9483669]

>>9483660
Confirmed: Articial Intelligence browses 4chan and is deterministic

[Anonymous No.9483670]

>>9483664
There are actually 72 free wills.

[Anonymous No.9483671]

>>9483667
>you think the argument is about feelings
What do you mean?

[Anonymous No.9483674]

>>9483667
??????

[Anonymous No.9483676]

>>9483650
Yeah that you can make decisions based on thoughts rather than genetic predispositions so your behavior isn't largely determined by your genes.

[Anonymous No.9483678]

>>9483666
Wow! You just solved everything! If someone makes a decision based on a coin flip, it has nothing to do with their brain, the chemical state of their brain, or physics whatsoever.

Well done!

[Anonymous No.9483683]

>>9483676
cont. No matter what environment you're brought up in and despite your genes you can think something then do it. That's what psychology is about I think (no pun intended).

[Anonymous No.9483685]

>>9483678
>Wow! You just solved everything! If someone makes a decision based on a coin flip, it has nothing to do with their brain, the chemical state of their brain, or physics whatsoever.
Which is why "Any decision you make is exactly determined by the state of your brain and it's chemical metabolism a few milliseconds ago" is patently false.

Did you have any other misconceptions you'd like to have debunked?

[Anonymous No.9483709]

>>9483676
>>9483683
I guess I've fallen into a poor biologist habit but basically we sum that up as "environment".

Your genes lie specifically in the DNA, and environment is everything else. Learning and memory are dependent upon your body producing the right proteins. Proteins are encoded by DNA.

But, environment is everything from exposure to chemicals in the womb, whether you were hugged as a child, if you're under constant stress and are producing cortisol.

We're absolutely more than just the genes. But, ultimately all other things that make us what we are are playing upon those genes. If you take a parent who genuinely loves their child, place that child in danger, the parent will probably respond. Not everyone will respond in the same way, but that's because we all have variations in our personal environments.

Even monozygotic twins (identical DNA) have differences between them, clearly illustrating that genes don't dictate everything strictly speaking. But you can calculate expression patterns of genes under varying conditions. You can measure brain activity under stress or other conditions.

I think it's basically impossible for us to fully predict exactly what behaviors a person will do because there's a monumental amount of things to measure and consider. But, our inability to synthesize that information doesn't contradict the idea as far as I'm aware.

[Anonymous No.9483713]

>>9483709
I arguw that that is not enough to predict behavior totally. Essentially, people are safe in their own heads. They can think things that are completely unrelated to anything in their unbringing and not motivated by genetic predispositions, then thoughts can become actions.

[Anonymous No.9483801]

>>9483685
The decision to flip the coin was based on brain chemistry
>not free will
then you left your final decision up to the coin flip, which is determined by coin irregularities, air resistance, force of flip, etc.
>also not free will

Now do you wanna tell us where free will comes from?

[Anonymous No.9483810]

>>9483571
If feels fine, it's you that thing that is choosing, it's defecto believing you are the laws of universe.

[Anonymous No.9483960]

Some people just don't get it, but that isn't their fault because they had no choice.

[Anonymous No.9484040]

>>9483602
>Being this stupid
I hope this is bait for your sake.

[Anonymous No.9484041]

>>9483629
Well now you guys are just arguing over the English language.

[Anonymous No.9484044]

>>9483667
>making shitposts like this, even jokingly, shows that you think the argument is about feelings. Are you a conservative SJW?
what did he mean by this?

[Anonymous No.9484049]

>>9483678
You shouldn't be arguing if you don't have an answer idiot
>>9483666
That coin flip was also pre-determined. As well as which face it lands on. Every single thing to ever happen was determined at the big bang and possibly before.

[Anonymous No.9484060]

ITT: queasy Christian violates /sci/ rules in the name of some deterministic non sequitur.

[Anonymous No.9484063]

>>9483571
Who cares

[Anonymous No.9484068]

>>9483571
Why are you so worked up about this and free will, if you don't have it?

[Anonymous No.9484069]

>>9483667
wat

[Anonymous No.9484071]

>>9483667

[Anonymous No.9484124]

>>9483571
>he thinks he's real smurt
>he thinks the counterpart to free will is determinism
You're an idiot and the worst kind of it