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/sci/ - Science & Math

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939920 No.939920 [Reply] [Original]

Ok science-lovers, I hope you're comfy. Let's have a little chat regarding your flawed theory of evolution.

1. Why is it just a "theory" still? Science supposed to prove what it says, not just postulate just-so stories.

2. Evolution cannot explain artistic beauty, such as the brilliant autumn foliage and staggering array of beautiful marine fish, both of which originated before any human to view them; this lacks any plausible evolutionary explanation.

3. Why are people in first world countries mating less? In Tokyoo, Japan, the average woman only has 1 child! Surely evolution is supposed to select out these non-reproducers. Evolution can't explain this, but creation can.

>> No.939926

reported, saged

>> No.939931

>such as the brilliant autumn foliage and staggering array of beautiful marine fish, both of which originated before any human to view them
they don't use humans to survive and reproduce, they just need to look healthy for the members of the opposite sex in the same species

>> No.939932
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939932

>> No.939936

HEY ATHEISTS

IF GOD DOESNT EXIST THEN WHY IS HE IN THE BIBLE?

>> No.939940

>>939926
This is science-related

>>939931
Doesn't explain why there is beauty and why we enjoy it.

>> No.939951

IF GOD IS REAL THEN WHY IS GRAVY SQUARED?!!!

>> No.939954
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939954

Christinsanity = Bad theory
Evolution = Good theory

nuff said

>> No.939962

Alright fuckers, if you manage to answer this I'll believe you:

If god doesn't exist then who told Noah to build the ark?

>> No.939963

>>939940
>Doesn't explain why there is beauty and why we enjoy it
this is the falllacy of personal incredulity, just because you don't have the brain power to know the answer doesn't mean that others don't have either

>> No.939965

>evolution has flaws

>god did it

Perfectly sound proof argument. And which god are we talking? The Greek creation myths? Sumerian?

You know the deal men, sage and report

>> No.939968
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939968

>> No.939969

What's the matter, my points too solid? You evolutionists have such faith in your theory.

>> No.939977

reported.

5....4.....3...2...1...

>> No.939981

>>939963
And what is this "brainpower" telling you, just have faith?

>> No.939992

>>939969

>You evolutionists have such faith in your theory.
>faith

try again bro

>> No.940020

>>939969

No, it's because you're obviously a troll and these points are stupid. But just for the record...

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_as_theory_and_fact has a pretty good write-up on this point.

2. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The things that exist are beautiful because they exist. Almost any composition with patterns in different colours are beautiful.

3. Because of contraception, mostly. Evolution didn't really consider that. The sexual urge is mostly sufficient for reproduction if you consider the history of life.

>> No.940027

1. A theory is a model of the world that scientists test.

2. Our affective systems may have been designed in part to keep us in fertile areas.

3. New environment produces different outcomes. People in more ancestral-like environments, like those in third world countries, tend to have more children.

>> No.940042

>>939920

just for once i would like to find a non-troll who can argue for creationism, but the fact that there are none just goes to show how retarded creationism is.

>> No.940053
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940053

>>939969
>>940042
Both your gods are dead.

>> No.940057

>>940020
Why is there such a thing as beauty? Why would the product of evolution even care about that. And much of the world is not pretty; wastelands, orangutans, big cities. But nature is pretty, this goes for everyone.

Why do we use contraception if we just want to have babies? And anyway people hold off having children without contraception too. Even foragers can induce abortions and sometimes make some sort of contraception, but they rarely do it.

>> No.940065

>>940057
this post just shows that you don't understand how they theory of natural selection works

gtfo

>> No.940063

>>940057

well after being around and of nature for the entirety of our evolution you would think we would begin to like our permanent surroundings enough to consider it 'beautiful'

>> No.940062

Nowadays I come here about once a fortnight to see whether trolls are still given the time of day. /sci/ you fail ever so badly at this.

>> No.940068

>>940057

you stupid fuck, you better be trolling.

read a book or something, jesus...

>> No.940074

>>940063
What is this Lamarckism? That doesn' tevne help survival.

>> No.940077

you know what OP, you don't believe in evolution, that's cool. So being a creationist, you should never get a vaccine. EVER! Viruses evolve and if you don't believe that you should just allow yourself to become infected and pray that god will save you.

>> No.940092
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940092

everytime you see a troll thread this is what you do:

1. report
2. don't post

if you just have to post for whatever reason, then always remember to

3. sage

>> No.940109

>>940057

I thought about it, and I'm not sure. Everything is guesswork. As a previous poster said, it could be to keep us in fertile areas. While we are now logical and can see that the forest is a better place to live in than the wasteland, that has not always been the case. If we find trees and fertile nature pleasant to look at, we are more inclined to stay there. Also, an artistic sense can promote social behaviour, which is always good for species like us (also explains music and other art forms as well).

The second point is that the urge is mainly sexual. There is no reason, evolutionary speaking, to want children when the urge for sexual contact is so great. So it's more on an individual level if we want kids or not, and if we have the choice many of us are satisfied with a couple of children (it's a rational choice; we weigh the amount of work involved in having a child with the pleasure involved). But as I said, the sexual urge is sufficient.

And I don't really understand what you meant by foragers. I think that kind of abortion is probably not very safe (in fact, the only kind of abortion that can be considered safe is done either with hormon treatment or in a very clean environments, like a hospital). And what kind of contraception could they use?

>> No.940139

>>940109
But isn't it genetic? Doesn't evolution say you evolve through genes, not through species? And your "rational choice" wouldn't be a part of evolution. You would act to benefit your "fitness" or whatever.

>> No.940142

>>940092
Listen to the man.

>> No.940163

>>940139

It's genes. But in this case, the propagation of you as an indiviual is identical to the propagation of your genes. Your genes tell you to have sex, in order to have children. You use contraception in order to have sex without having children. The urge is dictated by sexuality, and reason is a side-effect of being intelligent, which is useful for obvious reasons.

>> No.940172

>>940163
So why are humans so intelligent? And why should enjoy the environment?

>> No.940173

>>940172
intelligent as opposed to monkeys

>> No.940184

Ok, I believe in creationism.

Holy God OP is stupid.

>> No.940192

>>940172

Humans are intelligent because being more intelligent means having a greater ability to use your surroundings to your advantage. And we are social because we hunt in groups. The other point is answered in this thread.

>> No.940213

>>940192
Apes are social. They're not smart like humans. If intelligence would be evolved why isn't all of life intelligent?

>The other point is answered in this thread.

What, art would help a society (wut)? We would come to like our environment JUST BECAUSE? Don't make me laugh.

>> No.940215

>>939954
Implying Christianity was responsible for the fall of Rome.
Implying Christianity was responsible for the Chinese dark ages.
Implying Christianity was responsible for the American ancient civilizations from destroying one another and stagnating technologically.

>> No.940221

sage

>> No.940227

sage

>> No.940236

>>939920

1. A theory is a infinitely more truthful than those silly fairy tales.

2.beauty is a human emotion, i can think that a steaming pile of shit is beautiful and you can't argue it. its subjective.

3. wat, you're logic is faulty.

>> No.940233

>>939954
Oh, and implying that those who developed scientific theory, the renaissance, improved understanding of the universe, and even came up with the Big Bang Theory weren't Christian.

>> No.940239
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940239

10/10 OP
Great job, wonderful post.

>> No.940249

Ja as a future scientist, until such a theory is proven with rock solid evidence, I will still believe what I grew up with.

>> No.940247

sage
guess i have to switch to firefox...

>> No.940257

>>940236
You're wrong about the pile of shit. Humans show disgust from infancy for this. Flies don't.

Nice job answering number 3. You and your ethologists are totally wrong about humans, we don't act to reproduce.

>> No.940261

I love trolls. Ahhhh
Takes me back to when 4chan wasn't shite

>> No.940262

I think evolution is a better explanation than GOD DID EVERYTHING. Now GTFO since you God hasn't done shit for me.

>> No.940268

/sci/ - Religion and Trolls

>> No.940271

>>940261
you lie 4chan was always shit

>> No.940277

>>940027
This.

>> No.940287

>>940213

Apes are social, but not in the way humans are. When humans hunt, they can speak to each other and device strategies. They can rationally figure out that pointed sticks are more effective for hurting an animal than blunt ones. The list goes on. All animals aren't intelligent because
1. Evolution takes time. If humans didn't emerge, some other species would have instead. This is actually supported by evidence; It's quite clear by archeological findings that neanderthals used tools and whatnot, and they evolved from monkeys by another path.
2. For intelligence to be a very significant evolutionary advantage a couple of things must be fulfilled; we must be able to walk on two legs, so we can have our hands free, we must be able to have thumbs so we can use our hands for tools, and so on. This didn't happen (AFAIK) before primates.

And as I said, I'm only guessing, we like our environment because we need a reason to stay in it. Which would be beneficial. If a gene emerged that made us think the wasteland was really beautiful and good to live in it would probably not be long lived. Also, remember that these are very complicated properties and not dictated by single genes. Our brains are almost incomprehendably complex, and you can't really point at one thing and say that that's important. And no, art does not help a society, but it does promote social behaviour. It gives us something to talk about. It gives us something to do. It could also be a way for the brain to process our imagination (which, in itself, is a by-product of rational thought, which is based on having ideas, which is closely related to imagination). As I said, it's complex. Religion could also be explained by this.

>> No.940280

I thought white people were the self described master race? Isn't the master race supposed to be smarter than this?

>> No.940290

First thread on the first page? Oh good goat god.

>> No.940294

>>940287
troll'd hard

>> No.940297

>>939926
We can report this shit? To whom? DO WE ACTUALLY HAVE MODS HERE?

>> No.940300

>>940294

No I'm not. I realize that the OP is most probably a troll, but I don't mind making good points in any case. I like to discuss evolution, and one way to deal with trolls is to not satisfy them by being angry, and instead treat them like any other person. If everyone did this, trolls would cease to exist, because the point of trolling is for people to rage. I seldom rage.

>> No.940305

>>940300
you are a moron
no one read your post because you are posting in a TROLL THREAD

>> No.940313

/sci/ proves that trolls are often indistinguishable from total idiots.

>> No.940321

>>940305

I don't mind that very much. Part of the writing is to gather my own thoughts. It's never a bad thing to promote oneself to answer these kinds of questions, because one rarely thinks about these kinds of things when one does not have to. By having to answer these questions, I think about it, and thus increase my understanding of the world we live in.

And no, I'm not a moron.

>> No.940328

>>940287
Lots of guessing; the bible isn't guessing.

>> No.940333

>>940321
yes you are because you keep bumping a troll thread
i hate you
gtfo /sci/

>> No.940335

>>940328
lolk

If it's not guessing, where's the proof of any of it?

Anybody can make up bullshit. Did you know I have a god? He's a giant Spaghetti Monster in the sky, but you don't know he exists since he only appears to the chosen people. You're a giant faggot who's too stupid to realize it.

>> No.940342

>>940328

This is me guessing. I think that an evolutionary biologist could probably answer these questions much better than me (seeing as I study engineering physics and biology is just interesting to me because I like to understand how things work). And the bible not guessing is not indicative of it being true. Fiction rarely does guesswork.

>> No.940348

Ok religion-lovers, I hope you're comfy. Let's have a little chat regarding your flawed creation story.

1. Why doesit lack any evidence suporting it? Religion is supposed to prove what it says, not just postulate just-so stories.

2. Creationism cannot explain the outer space, such as why the stars are older than the Earth and why they produce heat and light; this lacks any plausible creationary explanation.

3. Why are people in third world countries mating more? In the favelas of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, the average woman has 10 childs! Surely God is supposed to punish out these over-reproducers that mates without marriage. Can you explain this?

>> No.940351

>>940287
You're just making stories when looking at old bones. It's all just apes and humans anyway.

So that's it, evolution decided to make us walk upright? Would it do so on other planets? Humans seem pretty special. We even conquered the world, what did foraging societies have to do with conquering the world.

And what about altruism? How do you explain that when we can just exploit one another.

>> No.940362

>>940333

Now you're assuming. Yes, this is probably a troll thread, but it could also be a thread by someone genuinly uneducated. And why not be rational and educate them then? I think it's fun, and if you don't like the thread, don't post in it.

>> No.940370

>>940348
>3. Why are people in third world countries mating more? In the favelas of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, the average woman has 10 childs! Surely God is supposed to punish out these over-reproducers that mates without marriage. Can you explain this?

Can your evolution explain this?

>> No.940378

Its funny that the image you use is that of a dead darwin fish... survival of the fittest much? Sounds very darwinian to me...

>> No.940406

>>940321
Sounds reasonable. But if evolution is true, why did trolls not evolve?

>> No.940428

Why is this shit here 5 times a day?

>> No.940431

>>940351

I recently saw an interview with Dawkins in which he explained altruism, and I kind of liked the explanation. His point was that it's a side effect. In environments much like we lived in when we were an infant species, it was beneficial to help each other out. If you met someone there, odds were that you would meet them again, and helping them would therefor give them a reason to help you later on (this is, after all, how friendship works). Nowadays, this does not apply, but the society we live in is very different from that which we lived in before. While we might still want to help someone we don't know, it seems to have no reason, since we probably wont meet them again. But our instincts doesn't know that. Our genetic heritage is telling us to help them, because helping them gave us an advatage a long, long time ago, making us survive better. I hope I got the point across.

And evolution doesn't decide to do things. It's not some mystical power, it's simply a change over time based on what properties help us and which do not. When we left the trees and moved to the plains, it helped to be able to walk long distances and run to intercept prey. The hunched form of most monkeys make this difficult, and is much better when climbing trees.

And yes, humans are special, because we reached the intellect needed to be able to move from hunting to agriculture. And when one person were able to feed several, other people could do other tasks than finding food. This meant that we could discover a lot of things with all that time; mathematics, physics, engineering... It took time, of course; but when the technology increased the amount of people you could feed from one person's work increased, making technological advances happen exponentially over time. This, of course, is a whole different story...

>> No.940442

sage

>> No.940491

>>940351
We walk upright not because "evolution wanted us to", it's because it was a handy way we started evolving: By letting our hands free instead of running on all four, it was possible to pick more food and eventually develop tools.
Also, humans were only able to "conquer the planet" because our "ancestors", the homo abilis if I'm not mistaken, developed the first tools, which were aways refined to hunt. So, with most predators being able to be killed by the tools, it was just necessary having to cross the oceans and meet other human civilizations.

tl;dr Tools: Solving our problems ever since we were hungry dumbasses

"But why didn't other animals develop tools?" Probably due to the fact they are either vegetarian or already have weapons on their bodies that allow them to kill their prey.

>>940370
Their genes are full of "YOU HAFTA MATE WITHOUT PROTECTION, OR YOU'RE NOT EVEN HUMAN".

>> No.940520

I always think of that one propaganda cartoon with the sweaty professor and one line: "He's destroying me!"

I lol every time.

>> No.940521

>>939920
>1. Why is it just a "theory" still? Science supposed to prove what it says, not just postulate just-so stories.
You're right. Let's stop teaching music and economics as well. After all, the courses about them are called music THEORY and economic THEORY.
>2. Evolution cannot explain artistic beauty, such as the brilliant autumn foliage and staggering array of beautiful marine fish, both of which originated before any human to view them; this lacks any plausible evolutionary explanation.
It doesn't intend to.
>3. Why are people in first world countries mating less? In Tokyoo, Japan, the average woman only has 1 child! Surely evolution is supposed to select out these non-reproducers. Evolution can't explain this, but creation can.
Natural selection favors those who reproduce the most, and it's not fast.

>> No.940693

sage all fields

that was by far the most heinous argument I have ever heard

many principles of science are still theories

>> No.940749
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940749

Y'all idiots posting in a troll thread.

>> No.940766

>1. Why is it just a "theory" still? Science supposed to prove what it says, not just postulate just-so stories.

You are confusing 'theory' and 'hypothesis'. Learn 2 scientific vocabulary.

>2. Evolution cannot explain artistic beauty, such as the brilliant autumn foliage and staggering array of beautiful marine fish, both of which originated before any human to view them; this lacks any plausible evolutionary explanation.

Similarly, the bible cannot explain to me the history of spelling reforms in northern europe, because that is a completely unrelated topic.

>3. Why are people in first world countries mating less? In Tokyoo, Japan, the average woman only has 1 child! Surely evolution is supposed to select out these non-reproducers. Evolution can't explain this, but creation can.

Because evolutionary urges are still under the human will.

0/10 Try harder.

>> No.940769

Comically, only threads like these get over 20 replies.

>> No.940783

What do you have to say about the bible verse that says all governemnts recieve their authority from god ?

Christians condone Hitler's government, you crazy fucks.

Citation: Romans 13:1-7