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/sci/ - Science & Math

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9267051 No.9267051 [Reply] [Original]

Let's settle this one and for all. Bonus points for extensions of ZF serving as a third alternative.

>> No.9267052

>>9267051
We have free choice. I can choose what to do with my life. There are many options I can choose from, but ultimately I make a decision. Nobody else causes that decision but me.

>> No.9267056

>>9267052

I'm not talking about free will vs determinism you dingus, I'm talking about the axiom of choice vs the axiom of determinancy.

>> No.9267057

>>9267056
No idea what that is bud

>> No.9267067

Women have the right to abortion.

>> No.9267072
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9267072

>>9267051

>> No.9267074
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9267074

>>9267067

>> No.9267077

>>9267072

A believer in choice I see. But are you also prepared to give up measurable cardinals, as your image suggests?

>> No.9267400

>>9267051
>>9267052

I'm laying in my bed currently. Should I get up and do stuff? Should I stay here wasting time on 4chan? If I decide to get up and learn for my exam and pass the exam, that's certainly my achievement. If I decide to stay most of the day in bed because it's so cozy and I fail the exam, it's certainly my achievement. Or isn't it?

The real question here is if each personal choice instantaneously starts a causal chain, or if it's just a link in an existing causal chain (that's possibly existing since the beginning of time, maybe even beyond the concept of our time).

Am I invoking a causal chain with some of my personal choices, while other choices are made due to reasons that existed before my "choice" that could only lead to one specific "choice" from the beginning?

Really hard questions. Maybe not everything is deterministic, but I'm sure way more is deterministic than we think.

>> No.9267412

>>9267051
False dilemma
There is no ultimate distinction between the two

>> No.9267433

>>9267077
Kanamori-senpai my large cardinal hierarchy is moving on its own. I don't have a problem with choice, my problem is with replacement, it's too strong. Give me Z with an axiom of rank.

>> No.9267442

>>9267051
Am i the only person who realizes that it's the same fucking girl?

>> No.9267569
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9267569

>>9267051
determinism relies on hard causality, we still don't know everything about the universe and whether or not every event is truly necessitated by another event. Free will could also be a word game for something that doesn't really have an answer. I also think maybe free will could be something that only comes up once or twice in a human life, like you only get a couple of branch points where the circumstances allow for a free decision to be made, but only on those very rare branch points, and that lets your life have different outcomes that aren't based on pure randomness or determinism