Are exams flawed?

[Anonymous No.9221929]

Considering they are just memorizing and recall of information, are exams just a waste of time?

[Anonymous No.9221931]

what kind of shitty exams to you take?

[Anonymous No.9221937]

>>9221929

Look at problems from the (modern) Cambridge mathematical Tripos or from qualifying exams in mathematics at UCLA, Harvard, Berkeley, etc. and tell me whether they can be solved by memorization.

[Anonymous No.9221938]

>>9221929
If you are taking a degree that matters then exams won't be just memorization. But there is no doubt in my mind that memorization is important. There are simply things you need to know. There is no way around it.

[Anonymous No.9221939]

>>9221929
Most of my exams in upper division only need to use 3-4 concepts/equations. It's implementation and computation that can be tricky

[Anonymous No.9221995]

You know, there's a reason so many professors allow "cheat sheets". Well made exams test your ability to adapt and apply knowledge, not regurgitate formulas.

[Anonymous No.9222016]

>>9221929

This >>9221931 >>9221995

There are criticisms you can make to the exam system but "is just memorization" is simply retarded.

[Anonymous No.9222019]

>>9221929
Exams are meant to test if you can understand the concepts taught in class. If you just memorize shit you're gonna have a bad time.

[Anonymous No.9222072]

>>9222019

Yet loads of people pass their degrees with high marks by just memorizing. Heck, I've seen meds just doing that.

I'm talking more about sciences rather than maths here btw

[Anonymous No.9222089]

Chemistry and Biology are 80% memorisation 20% understanding/application

[Anonymous No.9222093]

>>9222072
you're talking about idiots earning shit degrees for idiots then, what kind of question is that?

[Anonymous No.9222125]

>>9222019
I would agree with this.
I have experience in situations where I learned the exact material needed for an exam, and got a great result, but now barely remember any of it.
I also have experience, more recently, where I have made a point to really look into and learn as much about each topic as I have time for. In this instance I retain the information for longer, and even do better in exams.
So yeah, you *can* memorise for an exam, but in reality you're just screwing your future self over.

[Anonymous No.9222128]

>>9221929
We need to assess your knowledge somehow. If you have a better method, I'd sure like to hear it.

[Anonymous No.9222129]

>>9222019
But that's every test. You forget the material right when it's over. This is why people constantly debate about the efficacy of sat and act testing or just tests in general. Do they actually test you or is it just a big waste of time if all you're gonna do is forget it?

[Anonymous No.9222132]

>>9222093
Hardly I got through my organic chemistry bachelor's by memorization. Application of the principles really doesn't come into play until you get a job in research. Schools ultimately fail at testing because they want to use metrics to test you while also just bombarding you with information to memorize

Had to memorize the names of these 2 dozen different common functional groups can barely remember any of them except the ones I use in my job because the teaching was done based on memorization and the test was written with memorization

[Anonymous No.9222137]

>>9222128
There are tons of good ways to write good tests it's just a majority of teachers flat out don't. Instead of testing your understanding of a subject they just test your knowledge which is fucking useless

[Anonymous No.9222144]

>>9222132
Mate, I call out shit degrees where you just memorize and regurgitate, and you come here telling me "well I had a shit degree too!". What do you want me to say? This can't happen in a moderately decent math program for instance.

[Anonymous No.9222158]

>>9222089
> Biology are 80% memorisation

Nope, some subjects might be, and those are mostly the ones that are about taxonomy(microbiology, zoology, botanics...) but as soon as you get out of that it becomes more and more about biochemistry, and math, to the point where memorization is meaningless.

[Anonymous No.9222166]

>>9222144
>chemistry is a shit degree
How about its not a shit subject but shit teachers writing shit tests and teaching shit methods

[Anonymous No.9222171]

>>9222144
>This can't happen in a moderately decent math
See here's the paradigm you aren't getting

The subject doesn't dictate the test and they way it's written it'd the "decent" part.

Sure shit chemistry programs will have shit teachers writing shit tests. So this isn't about the subject itself rather the people who don't give a fuck

[Anonymous No.9222177]

>>9222128
It would be fairly time intensive, but the best way might be an oral exam. Just sit down with the student, ask them some questions and followup, and see if they have a solid grasp of the basic ideas and theoretical underpinnings of the subject.

[Anonymous No.9222181]

>>9222177
No college wants to do this. They want to make as much money as they can as efficiently as they can

[Anonymous No.9222205]

>>9221929
Not all exams are cloze/multiple choice brainlet shit. Basically all examination past high school is(in STEM, at least) done in the problemsolving format with only several tasks, requiring extensive writing and a clear picture of the ins and outs of the subject, for several hours, not the dumshit sheet of quadrillion multiple choice garbage plebbery normos tear their ass off cheating on.

[Anonymous No.9222231]

>>9222158
Mate I did biochem the only think that required thinking was molecular biology and even then it was mostly memorisation.

The mathematics in biochemistry is laughable

[Anonymous No.9222237]

>>9221929
They separate who works hard and who doesn't.

It doesn't necessarily test skill.

It's a true character filter

[Anonymous No.9222246]

>>9222231
biology majors are terrible at math, didn't you know?
>>9221929
There are good exams and bad exams. At the lower levels, questions should be more about basic application of a concept, and as you progress through a degree, the basic application becomes assumed knowledge and you need to be more concerned with being able to think through a complex problem.

So yeah, in first year classes, particularly in subjects like biology and chemistry, and probably the first few second year classes one will take, there will be a great deal of memorization in some cases. But seriously, memorization isn't difficult. You just need to write shit over and over until you don't need to think to recall it.

I don't know anything about biochemistry, but even I could see the use in memorizing a bunch of functional groups, for instance. Then you know them when you need them for a problem. Like, imagine wanting to be a pastry chef and not remembering the recipe/process of baking a simple pie. Memorizing some concept in a chem class is probably about the same difficulty.

In short, you're forced to "memorize" concepts at the lower levels so you can grasp higher level concepts faster without having to refer back to a book constantly. And when you take the time to actually memorize the shit, you're developing discipline and good study habits that will come in handy when your classes actually become difficult concept-wise.

[Anonymous No.9222247]

>>9222231

When you study the routes you can memorize them(although you would do much better understanding what the biochemical route does and what does it need to achieve it) but in my course we studied far more about kinetics than just the routes, so memorization was out of the order.

Also, I said biochemistry but thats because you can add genetics there too, where most of the exam we did was based around problem solving rather than just theory.

And also happened in inmunology, where the test wasn't about theory as much data interpretaiton(she gave us graphics and tables and asked us what they were suposed to mean and what did they imply).

Yes there is a memory component factor here, but I could eat shit and die with only that, logic was far more important.

[Anonymous No.9222264]

>>9221937
>not having the solution to every problem and proof of every theorem in mathematics memorized
Must suck to be a brainlet.

[Anonymous No.9222314]

>>9222237
>>9222237

So? You can work hard to memorize something. That doesn't mean you understand something. I could memorize 100 numbers of pi. But if I don't know what pi represents, what's the use of it?

The majority of tests I've done are just memorization shit. EG: I just had a class describing sickle cell anemia. I could just memorize the causes, biochemistry behind it etc... I may not have a clue really what it is about, but I could just remember it all that I could. Is that how students should be taught?

Med students, from what I hear, do this a lot. Just memorize. I mean, I don't want to spend years just memorizing stuff for exams.

[Anonymous No.9222316]

>>9222093

>medicine is a shit degree

I know we tend to hate on meds here but really?

[Anonymous No.9222411]

>>9221929
>>9221937
>>9221995
>>9222016
>>9222072
>>9222093
>>9222144
>>9222128
>>9222158
>>9222166
>>9222205
>>9222237
>>9222246
>>9222247
>>9222314
>>9222019

Only 1% of people actually understand what they study for the exams let alone remember it for years to come. The rest 99% have no choice but to memorize.

Just like how employers chuck 50% of CVs in the bin straight away, exams are simply meant to thin the herd in order to differentiate between those who can progress to the next stage.

[Anonymous No.9222428]

>>9221929
>failed an exam
>IT WASNT MY FAULT IT WAS THE EXAMS FAULT
and people wonder why education system has become shit

[Anonymous No.9222607]

>>9222411

t. Brainlet

[Anonymous No.9223037]

>>9221929
they are flawed as a way of testing your knowledge of a subject, but they are great as a way of getting students to read and go over the subjects

[Anonymous No.9223066]

>>9221929
you're not getting an A by just memorizing, brainlet.

Memorization > Application and manipulation of knowledge to solve problems

[Anonymous No.9223098]

If you know the material, the test is easy. If you learn it really well than it is just demonstrates your skills and helps you know the few things you need to work on.

If you are a brainlet and cram the material so you can spit it out and forget it next week, yes it is worthless.