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/sci/ - Science & Math

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9194255 No.9194255 [Reply] [Original]

After learning about the double slit experiment, I've come to wonder whether consciousness is fundamental to every physical process.

If so, then doesn't there need to be a conscious entity for the big bang to have happened?

>> No.9194314

>>9194255
We were created. Anyone who says otherwise should be shot, on the spot.

>> No.9194316

>>9194255
No. The universe doesn't care about what you think. Observer doesn't matter, only thing that matters with double slit is conservation of energy momentum and he Isenberg uncertainty.

>> No.9194318
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9194318

>>9194255
>After learning about the double slit experiment, I've come to wonder whether consciousness

You do NOT understand the double slit experiment. All it shows is that observation (need to alter the photons to observe them) can change results. Why is this somehow confused with "consciousness"? The problem is the term "observation" is not clearly defined.

>> No.9194341

>>9194255
https://youtu.be/8ORLN_KwAgs?t=1m50s

>> No.9194350

>>9194341

Entanglement is in regular 4 dimensional space-TIME. Entangled particles are "together" in space AND time till observation.

>> No.9194386

>>9194316
>The universe doesn't care about what you think.

How do you know that?

>> No.9194403

>>9194386
Because the double slit results are produced whether or not conciousness is involved.

>> No.9194410

>>9194403
"I regard consciousness as fundamental" - Max Planck.

>> No.9194412

>>9194403
If consciousness doesn't exist, who's gonna perform the experiment in the first place, dumbass?

>> No.9194414

>>9194341
>He thinks a poorly produced youtube video is proof of anything

>> No.9194415

>>9194412
You tell me. I never said it doesn't exist.

>> No.9194419

>>9194415
lol, what are you, unconscious?

>> No.9194421
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9194421

>>9194318
>My subjective interpretation is more correct than everyone else.

>> No.9194742

>>9194414
sure beats a shitpost

>> No.9194773

>>9194255
why would conscious be fundamental to anything at all?

>> No.9194776

>>9194773
>i cant into quantum physics

>> No.9194781
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9194781

>>9194776
>not an argument
i'm LMAOing at your life

>> No.9194831
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9194831

>>9194314
1/10 meme

>> No.9194864

Brainlet here, but I've been thinking.

If time is relative, then any particles that are unobserved (such as in the double slit experiment) will be frozen in time relative to us. Is this correct?

>> No.9194882

>>9194255
>double slit experiment

The experiment does not give enough data for a meaningful conclusion. Just like the shooter and farmer; though those imply a 3rd party, which I don't imply.

>In the shooter hypothesis, a good marksman shoots at a target, creating a hole every ten centimeters. Now suppose the surface of the target is inhabited by intelligent, two-dimensional creatures. Their scientists, after observing the universe, discover a great law: “There exists a hole in the universe every ten centimeters.” They have mistaken the result of the marksman’s momentary whim for an unalterable law of the universe.

>The farmer hypothesis, on the other hand, has the flavor of a horror story: Every morning on a turkey farm, the farmer comes to feed the turkeys. A scientist turkey, having observed this pattern to hold without change for almost a year, makes the following discovery: “Every morning at eleven, food arrives.” On the morning of Thanksgiving, the scientist announces this law to the other turkeys. But that morning at eleven, food doesn’t arrive; instead the farmer comes and kills the entire flock."

>> No.9194886

>>9194864
Time doesn't exist.

>> No.9194904
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9194904

>there are people in this thread that haven't internalized Everettian Many-Worlds
Sad!

>> No.9194915
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9194915

>>9194410
In almost no other field are discredited thoughts of otherwise brilliant-at-the-time-but-wrong figures thrown in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

No, consciousness does not have a place in quantum mechanics, and their thoughts reflect a very different understanding of QM than we have today.

>> No.9194923

>>9194904
Many-Worlds is a wonderful idea based on solid math, but it takes realism to an extreme conclusion that's both absurd and doesn't match any experience or evidence we have nor lends itself to any testing that can do to confirm its conclusions.

Mathematical elegance does not dictate how reality works, it describes it. When we confuse the model for the modeled, we often find ourselves begging to be fooled.

>> No.9194925

consciousness is a desperate figment of imagination by brainlets who are unable to accept that free will doesn't exist.

>> No.9194944
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9194944

>>9194255
>the absolute EIGENSTATE of Copenhagencucks

>> No.9194950

>>9194925

The only thing you know for sure is that you are subjectively experiencing things. Read some Descartes brainlet.

>> No.9195032

>>9194886
My receding hairline is telling me something different.

>> No.9195305

>>9194950
lmao. resorting to philosophy wordplay and completely unsubstantiated claims. how about you back up your claim with actual science?

oh wait, it's all physicalism!

haha xD

>> No.9195351

>>9195305

You haven't done any introspection in your whole life if you don't realize that subjectivity is the most certain thing to exist. Justify with science? Do you understand that science is what happens when you've figured out your epistemology first, and your epistemology will have to tackle the issue of solipsism vs. reality, the concept of the persistence of personhood, fallibility of language and memory -- as purely metaphysical questions, founded upon the first premise: I am conscious, therefore I am. Once you've laid all the philosophical foundations, you can introduce inductive reasoning using the scientific method to refine things further.

>> No.9195415
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9195415

>>9194882

...and the moral is, both the shooter and the farmer IS GOD.

>> No.9195437

>>9194318
It's confused with consciousness because that's how it's presented to high school physics students.

I thought the exact same thing before I learned what the Double-Slit Experiment actually meant. I even knew a few things about diffraction at the time. I still fell into the trap.

The problem is that it's presented by professors with weak credentials and poor understanding as the go-to example of how quantum physics=spooky magic.

>> No.9195454

double slit has nothing to do with consciousness, or moreover the double slit experiment tells us we are not casual laboratory observers but physical processes ourselves. this one is easily verifiable.

>> No.9195876
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9195876

>>9194915
>He thinks he knows more than the greatest Physicists.

>> No.9195955

>>9195351
Don't bother talking to P-zombies.

>> No.9196017

>>9195876
James Clerk Maxwell was a prolific physicist and one our most influential, and there are many things he did not know or was simply wrong about when considering how we understand physics today.

>> No.9196064

>>9195437
In general physics I was only taught that the result of the experiment is interference as if the particle is also a wave. Schrodinger cat is an experiment about observation.

>> No.9196109

>>9196017
And why are you so confident that what's known today isn't wrong as well?

>> No.9196111

>>9196064
There's no evidence that he experimented on cats. Those rumors about animal abuse have never been substantiated.

It was only a thought experiment.

>> No.9196116

>>9195876
Don't worship scholasticism. There's much to learn from past great thinkers, but not like THAT. Not at the expense of present minds.

>> No.9196135

>>9196109
http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm

>> No.9196141

>>9196116

Scholasticism: the predominant theological and philosophical teaching of the period a.d. 1000–1500, based upon the authority of the Christian Fathers and of Aristotle and his commentators.

>> No.9196176

>>9196141
it measn something different in me language i swear

>> No.9196776

>>9196141
His point is not to fetishize scholars of the past.

>> No.9196785

>>9194255
>babby's first quantum physics class
>trying to ponder consciousness because of a pretty simple experiment
i fucking LOVE science!!!

>> No.9198162

Brainlet here, let me see if I got the double slit experiment right
A physical interaction with a probability wave (the momentum-position duality of a photon, a disturbance or fluctuation on the electromagnetic field) collapses the probability wave and determines the absolute or discrete value of whether the particle went through slit A or B or as a wave through both slits

>> No.9198214

>>9194255
Pretty sure the human element is not a factor. The observer could be a camera iirc.

>> No.9198227
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9198227

>>9194255
Write a new physics law.
Call it the conservation of quantum memory by entanglement. It should explain how everything is a pulse, unless it is being observed, then it's matter.

>> No.9198232

>>9194864
No, where it is and where is could be is saved by it's entangle pair. Very strange physics.

>> No.9198765

>>9198162
>>9194318
>>9194318
How do you explain the delayed choice quantum eraser? Where all photons are split into entangled pairs, all of the entangled photons are measured after the double slit while the OG(original gangster) photons go through an unobserved double slit and create an interference pattern or particle blob distribution. The entangled photons are “randomized” via partially silvered mirrors so there is no way to predict what path a photon will take until after it has taken it. 50% of the entangled photons go to measurement devices where information can be obtained about them and the other 50% go to identical measurement devices where pathing(which way) information cannot be discerned. All entangled photons are measured in the same fasion but when watching the OG particle/wave distribution, only the photons who’s entangled pair was randomized make an interference pattern. This experiment definitively shows that its not the act of measurement which causes the interference wave function to collapse, but the act of obtaining information. Even if all mechanisms and physical interactions are the same, it only matters if someone can say with certainty which slit the photon went through. The craziest part is that the measured entangled pair can be measured long AFTER the OG photon hits the interference pattern screen and the result remains the same. Showing that the measurement of the entangled photon can effect the results obtained in the PAST.

>> No.9198838

>>9194314
True
We were created by our parents

>> No.9198853

>>9195876
Well with all of those physicists' studies at our fingertips these days, we should be seeing explosions of genius, right?? Nah, instead we post on 4chan

>> No.9199370

>>9198853
You can't deny that I'm very smart.

>> No.9199378

>>9194944
This.
/thread

>> No.9199608

>>9194255
Consciousness is definitely no stranger to processes, even random processes such evolution is said to cause it spontaneously without any apparent cause.
It's a tough nut for sure, but food for thought.