/sci/ - Science & Math

[Tengrist No.9185844]

Religion ad science is the same thing.

Sky-worship serves navigation in time and space, and has in its most dense form developed in nomadic steppes populations for whose lifestyles it's most important and manifested into it. As an example we can mention nomadic dwellings, which are directed along the cardinal lines, functioning as a clock and structured like a holy house sometimes referred as a ship.
The opening time dimension from tying life ensuring decisions onto reliably, frequently and constantly in intervals recurring celestial phenomena and the verbal sharing of the subsequent values, granted them the ability for transcendental thought to pull themselves up from the emotional trappings of the animal kingdom, allowing a sense for truthfulness, justice and beauty making planing possible, thus science and increased survival likelihood.

[Anonymous No.9185854]

>>9185844

I actually unironically believe this.

>Science repeatedly suggests alternate dimensions
>Heaven and hell are alternate dimensions
>Science suggests big bang
>What existed before that is a big question
>Probably just God

etc

[Tengrist No.9185856]

Celestially rooted, creating scientific understanding for the first time, the scientific belief system Tengrism is thought to be the oldest religion in the world. We also can see the connection between God and the sky made its way into other beliefs. The structure of the Turk language and Turk philosophical approaches make suggest that Tengrism and Turkdom developed mutually dependent.

Sky-worship serves navigation in time and space, and has in its most dense form developed in nomadic steppes populations for whose lifestyles it's most important and without a question best preserved and manifested in the Turk mythology and body. As an example we can mention Nardugan holiday and Turk nomadic dwellings, which are directed along the cardinal lines and structured similar to other, off-shooting holy houses (the ever moving celestial sphere continuously reaffirms beliefs that reality is forever in motion).

The opening time dimension from tying life ensuring decisions onto reliably, frequently and constantly in intervals recurring celestial phenomena and the verbal sharing of the subsequent values, granted transcendental thought for Turks to exit the emotionally trapped animal kingdom, allowing a sense for truthfulness, justice and beauty and increased survival likelihood. Survival is ensured by in the sky located life force called kut, a leader, one who is best at time and space navigation is blessed especially with.
These factors combined; transcendental skills and kut located in the heavens, leads to the conclusion that a leader is closer to Tengri, and its fleshly representation, ascended from the heavens.

>>9185854
Here's more.

[Tengrist No.9185859]

When singular objects are being worshiped the resulting belief form is polytheistic.
Only when the sky, which is a singular entity with a whole universe of objects standing in a system, is worshiped the resulting belief system can be monotheistic.
Paradox at first this religion is polytheistic (Cok Tanrili) and monotheistic (Tek Tanrili) at the same time, but then understanding Tengrism it makes sense and turns into a semantic issue.
In Tengrism we can derive the teaching that all these lesser gods (for example the sun, or a certain constellation) are only aspects of the unitary God (the celestial sphere).
That's the reason why it gets orally transmitted that Tengri is inside of every thing, and encapsulates every thing.

[Tengrist No.9185882]

Religion in its beginnings is always about life and death with the object thought to decide about it being worshipped.
And this one is the only religion (systematic belief) known to me which with its slim dogma doesn't seem to diverge from science no matter how far we think it.
In fact it seems only to gain relevancy when thinking it into the future, no matter where we'll travel the celestial sphere will always accompany us.

Also it's not reliant on a book other than the Turkic body itself in which all the values are manifested, personal evaluation and the physical reality itself.

We know that Turks usually gave up their conscious following of their own national religion once settling, in reverse we might be able to predict that the reactivation of Tengrism will lead them to colonize space in its most magnificent way.

[Tengrist No.9185906]

Now having understood that the Turk culture is capable of transcendental thought you will understood how this happened as well:

We don't know what first Turk's genetic make up, because we don't know who the first Turks have been, and even if did it wouldn't matter because in our national culture we're capable of transcendental thought.
Concluding from the consistency of the language and other cultural consistent factors and also clues scattered through the historic records tell us that Turks must very old and we know they expanded over and explored most of Eurasia.

In the nomadic Turks, these flowing masses of individuals, constantly moving, but not solely because of that, always clashing with the races ethnogenesis processes taking place on its various groups, with fluctuating genetic and hence phenotypic effects, a different approach from settler cultures', gets constructed when tying the Turkish identity to Turkish speaking populations because a different kind of self reflection has developed and hence view of the world.

Flows of migration take place in spirals and zig zags extending into the highest number of various cultures, languages, religions... over the largest surface area of the world historically and currently for any kind of nation ever existing, from the most central position of humankind with its semiotic, economic, cultural and genetic environment.
The Turkish self reflection is located in Tengrism, identity in Turkdom, the biological self identity is located in those.

[Anonymous No.9186217]

>half-baked assumption
>more half-baked assumption
>turks!

wonder why nothing of interest comes out of there.

[Anonymous No.9186386]

>>9185844
>Religion ad science is the same thing.
This.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientism

[Tengrist No.9186571]

>>9186386
This doesn't confirm the statement but only expresses any kind of confronting science with philosophy, with the notion that errors usually occur when attempting to do so.

>>9186217
That's why in the OP I didn't mention Turks so you won't get triggered right away. How is it not interesting and what's half baked about it?

[Tengrist No.9186573]

Shouldn't you be pointing out more specifically what's not logical or seems unlikely to you or in the reverse case what you can confirm?

[Tengrist No.9186585]

This won't happen I guess >>9186573
because you guys come from the forum I posted a link to here.

[Tengrist No.9186621]

I will explain it further how science is the same thing and didn't pop out of nowhere but stands in an evolution... in relation to the given example.

Science isn't infallible but only speaks of likelihood and increases likelihood when forcing events. Principally there's really no difference if I call a certain star constellation the grey wolf or give it a Greek name when using it for navigation purposes. The guy increases the likelihood to get where he wants to, even if a more complex body of mythological aspects is attached to the term. Now you could say for example mythological symbols attached to the term and hence constellation unnecessary to getting the results shouldn't exist in the approach in order for it to claim scientific validity, but this would have to apply to current scientific approaches the same way which isn't true. In the scientific world never a most reduced architecture is being applied because we simply can't do it. Numbers could be written in a more reduced form, terms could ever be made more elegant... so where's the difference in a Shaman hitting a drum while increasing likelihood of survival of a diseased and a doctor wearing a white collar? You could say we're aware the white collar isn't needed, what about the things we don't know that aren't needed for the realization of increased likelihood? What about the approach we don't know of yet that works better?
It's rather magical thinking and dogmatism to draw clear cut lines and thinking the scientific method pops out of nowhere and its current state stands on nothing prior.

[Tengrist No.9186653]

Further, basing our approaches on more intuitive symbols, which have proven themselves viable over long time spans, treating them mnemonically might increase the capacity of the brain, since these evolved in our perception along with it.
For example a mountain is such an archetype and the symbol has hammered itself into our nervous system along with it evolving. Such archetypes make up the mythological spectrum, like Tengri mountain it could be used as a mnemonic device in an education curriculum for scientific concepts to be attached to it to be studied religiously. Thinking this further with other deities, some of them making use of our face calculation capacities, and more, emotional ones, social ones... could propel the effectiveness into the unimaginable.

[Anonymous No.9186682]

>>9185844
Science is trial and error to figure how stuff works.

Religion is your brain's instinctive(batshit crazy) view of how existence actually works. Since humans are egomaniacal apes every religion must have suprene creators that look like humans even though logically that makes no sense after all how could humans come from monkeys thats just stupid.

Humans dont kmow how brain works sothey assume metaphysical beings cause evil and disease and all that.

[Tengrist No.9186718]

>>9186682
>Science is trial and error to figure how stuff works.
Even whole nations did that and it manifested into their syntax.

>religion must have suprene creators that look like humans even though logically that makes no sense
It does, we have advanced face calculation capabilities why not make use of them?

The approach could be layered, for example with levels of scientific user interfaces for example tailored to a child's perception and people not concerned much with the issue, told in a more tale like version with the whole story ebbing into more abstract to the perception user interfaces like what we usually accept as scientific concepts. Similar to how the political landscape works, the most simple version is just an Oompa Loompa directing a chocolate factory.

>Humans dont kmow how brain works sothey assume metaphysical beings cause evil and disease and all that.
We still do that, it just became more complex and refined. When it's more simple and inexact to a point it mismatches the current state of the art we call it unscientific.

>after all how could humans come from monkeys thats just stupid.
lmao, I skipped that.

[Anonymous No.9186724]

>>9186718
No I was giving you an idea of what humans religiously think about evolution.

Humans would never think they came from monkeys no matter what you tried.

[Anonymous No.9186731]

Atheism is dumbest meme created by the early internet.
Basically edgy kids being rebellious and disrespectful.
Deep down, atheism is nothing but autistic screeching at Christianity.

[Tengrist No.9186732]

>>9186724
>Humans would never think they came from monkeys no matter what you tried.
I do in my religious concept, I don't get it.

[Tengrist No.9186736]

>>9186731
I see it the same way but nothing wrong with that either. It can emancipate from magical thinking that serves no purpose.

[Tengrist No.9186746]

>>9186724
I do believe that we share ancestors with monkeys, and it's part of my religious concept. So I really don't get what you mean.

[Tengrist No.9186767]

You can try explain to me how the belief in the unproven universe is any different from the unitary entity called God, if you want so there's only a semantical difference.

And in Sky-Tengrism these entities are largely equated, the only difference is that it claims this thought as a nation, we take a set point of perspective, building our thought on the prior, which allows a more harmonic trial and error evolution in my view.

[Tengrist No.9186803]

>>9186731
Not paying any attention to the way you expressed this idea, I see it similarly, nevertheless it can emancipate from what now most of us would refer to as empty beliefs.

[Tengrist No.9186815]

>>9186767 I mean, you I think must accept that it's quite astonishing that these people saw the universe as what it is to us without having really seen it.

[Anonymous No.9186835]

This board has gone to shit. Where are the mods? why is this garbage allowed here?

[Tengrist No.9186840]

>>9186835
Are you triggered because you can't discuss the topic and why this particularly this thread?

[Tengrist No.9186853]

>>9186835
Btw, I'm almost certain that you come from the forum I linked here.
Because most threads on the first pages are totally ok.

[Anonymous No.9188393]

>>9186731
Nah, atheism relies on the assumption that the "religious" definition of god is correct: A higher power than man, then assumes absolute truth is that everything is separate, disconnected, random noise without any intent or design, leaving themselves out of the equation as just another irrelevant existence without cause. Very empowering belief system, indeed

[Anonymous No.9188640]

God is the electron.

[Tengrist 1/2 No.9188721]

"Astronomy is the oldest of the natural sciences.

The earliest civilizations dating back to beyond 3000 BCE, such as the Sumerians, ancient Egyptians, and the Indus Valley Civilization, all had a predictive knowledge and a basic understanding of the motions of the Sun, Moon, and stars. The stars and planets were often a target of worship, believed to represent their gods. While the explanations for these phenomena were often unscientific and lacking in evidence, these early observations laid the foundation for later astronomy."

That's what I am saying all along and these are my personal findings, I didn't plagiarize.
Of course what constitutes as astronomy is debatable, because a sloth waking up with the sunshine to reposition could be called some kind of astronomy already, since the sloth understands the heat the sun causes on it and categorizes it as a celestial object. You can't accept evolution and then swipe away evolution of subsequent thought as crazy talk.

I'll compare what I wrote and then what the "Krupp, E.C. (2003). Echoes of the Ancient Skies: The Astronomy of Lost Civilizations." does say.

>Celestially rooted, creating scientific understanding for the first time, the scientific belief system Tengrism is thought to be the oldest religion in the world.
>The opening time dimension from tying life ensuring decisions onto reliably, frequently and constantly in intervals recurring celestial phenomena and the verbal sharing of the subsequent values, granted them the ability for transcendental thought to pull themselves up from the emotional trappings of the animal kingdom, allowing a sense for truthfulness, justice and beauty making planing possible, thus science...
"Astronomy is the oldest of the natural sciences."

[Tengrist 2/2 No.9188726]

>When singular objects are being worshiped the resulting belief form is polytheistic.
The stars and planets were often a target of worship, believed to represent their gods.

To make it clear: Only a nomadic population in such a harsh environment as the steppes, in the middle of the large population groups, could come equate the complete always accompanying, endlessly moving celestial sphere equate with a singular God, the universe.

And only in the Turkic body (Mongols and other close groups included), the resulting syntax is manifested.

[Anonymous No.9188809]

Scientists should stop trying to disavow the similarities between science and religion. Science IS a religion and it's the most true religion that we have right now.

[Tengrist No.9188924]

>>9188809
Tengri biz menen.

[Tengrist No.9189064]

>>9186682
t. kesin arkandan gelmedim

[Anonymous No.9189108]

don't know anything about tengrism but i don't see the need to use some random old religion when bill nye videos are more than enough to rouse population.

[Tengrist No.9189119]

>>9189108
Did you even read the thread or did you come are you the kid following me around to negate what I'm doing? See >>9188721 >>9188726

I've gotten to these conclusions on my own.
And only later found out about Krupp affirming the principles of my findings, further again independently, I even present a more complex and coherent version, with additional principles, namely the necessity of a unitary God in the celestial sphere for navigational purposes of nomadic populations as displayed in the syntax and vocabulary of Turkdom.

[Tengrist No.9189129]

>>9189108
>rouse population.
btw, this washed up
>götüm yaniyor
bullshit won't work here

[Tengrist No.9189141]

>>9188809
See, I see it the same, and I believe it starts with nomads, who live on ships in the steppes, having to rely heavily on celestial objects for navigation, therefore having observed the whole sky closely, which kicked them from polytheistic celestial objects worship to worshiping the whole celestial sphere...
since it mainly developed as an oral tradition it must have been a long process and therefore shaped the language fundamentally.
In Tengrism God is equated to the celestial sphere and it is seen as infinite, some of these terms can even be used interchangeably.

And it still holds validity.
Just read the thread, there are way more clues.

[Tengrist No.9189145]

>>9188809
See, I see it the same, and I believe it starts with nomads, who live on ships in the steppes, having to rely heavily on celestial objects for navigation, therefore having observed the whole sky closely, which kicked them from polytheistic celestial objects worship to worshiping the whole celestial sphere...
since it mainly developed as an oral tradition it must have been a long process and therefore shaped the language fundamentally.
In Tengrism God is equated to the celestial sphere and it is seen as infinite, some of these terms can even be used interchangeably.

And it still holds validity.
In today's scientific world the universe is mostly and has been seen as the greatest unified entity.

[Anonymous No.9189268]

>>9185844

Not a /sci/ thread.

Possibly a /his/ thread, definitely an /x/ thread.

[Tengrist No.9189279]

>>9189268
stop derailing

[Tengrist No.9189476]

I'm out, thanks for having read my thread, and keep in mind most of the derailing was due to people who have a political agenda most of it coming from a forum I linked to here, every single time I repeatedly asked about refuting my points some of them I even later backed up with an individual source no answer has been given, instead name calling even in other threads, the few I even posted in. >>9188721 >>9188726 >>9189145

Have a nice time.

>>9189268
Also not science related, right?
Krupp, E.C. (2003). Echoes of the Ancient Skies: The Astronomy of Lost Civilizations