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/sci/ - Science & Math


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8997158 No.8997158 [Reply] [Original]

I've only heard religious people argue for having kids, or people that think humanity will find a way to carry on forever.

But since an educated individual knows life was doomed from the start, wouldn't the compassionate, intelligent thing to do be let humankind go extinct a long time ago? It seems cruel to bring new humans to awareness.

>> No.8997160
File: 438 KB, 808x805, 1498432418322.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8997160

>>8997158
>But since an educated individual knows life was doomed from the start
???

>> No.8997162

>>8997158
Why are people who post about "religious people" always so faux-edgy in so many other ways as well?

>> No.8997171 [DELETED] 

>>8997158
To raise an offspring to become smarter, richer, happier & more successful than predecessors.

A son-father love is much stronger than the love between wife-husband or any friendship & brotherhood.

You trust 100% in your own parents. But you will never trust 100% of a Wife or Friend (Unless you are a Cuckold) You can trust in your Children.

Your Children will trust you, love you, respect you & care for you always just like you trust, respect, love, care your Parents.

A Slut or a Friend can back-stab & Cuck you at any moment. But the Love between Parents & Children are Pure & Strong.

You also need to raise someone to inherit your legacy. For example if Elon Musk don't complete the mission to led Humanity into Mars, then He should educate His son to continue His Mission.

But donate your legacy for Niggers, a corrupt government or be Cucked is retarded in my opinion.

>> No.8997174

>>8997158
To raise an offspring to become smarter, richer, happier & more successful than predecessors.


A son-father love is much stronger than the love between wife-husband or any friendship & brotherhood.


You trust 100% in your own parents. But you will never trust 100% of a Wife or Friend (Unless you are a Cuckold) You can trust in your Children.


Your Children will trust you, love you, respect you & care for you always just like you trust, respect, love, care your Parents.


A Slut or a Friend can back-stab & Cuck you at any moment. But the Love between Parents & Children are Pure & Strong.


You also need to raise someone to inherit your legacy. For example if Elon Musk don't complete the mission to led Humanity into Mars, then He should educate His son to continue His Mission.


But donate your legacy for Niggers, a corrupt government and be Cucked is retarded in my opinion.

>> No.8997175

>>8997158
why don't you just kill yourself then if that's what you think? your life is doomed anyway lol

>> No.8997306

>>8997175
Enjoying the ride is not the sale as stringing others along.
>>8997162
How is that being edgy?
Science says we are doomed and there's nothing greater, unless humans figure out how to break out current laws of physics. That's not me being edgy, that's sapience being a cruel joke of the universe

>> No.8997328

>>8997306
fuck off back to plebbit, pseud. nobody takes nihilism seriously.

>> No.8997345

>>8997158
>wouldn't the compassionate, intelligent thing to do be let humankind go extinct a long time ago?
>compassionate

Oh sure, it would be. But that is assuming that compassion brings with itself some kind of intrinsic value. It does not. Life has no worth or purpose, therefore it doesn't really matter if you bring in another little monkey into this painful existence. It literally means nothing.

>intelligent
Depends on how do you define intelligence. If you define intelligence as the awareness to take right decisions that will enrich your life, at least for a moment, then sometimes it is intelligent to do the cruel thing: Bring in another poor soul into this disgusting universe.

Think about it. Many couples have children out of desperation when their relationship is going downhill. Having a kid makes them both take things more seriously and just stick with it. So if you wanted to keep the relationship, it is intelligent to have a kid. Even though it is outright immoral to force another person to have to live.

>> No.8997348

>>8997328
>truth is painful that must mean he's from Reddit

>> No.8997477

>>8997158
Your gonna knock up a fat bitch around age 30 and regret that you didnt spend your 20 minutes scoping for tight ass

>> No.8997627

Because all the enlightened redditor intellectual atheists who are >tfw too smart to have children
from the last generation died and, you guessed it, didn't have children.

>> No.8997630

Because the meaning of life is to reproduce.

>> No.8997631

>>8997158
You know, creampies are a really nice thing.

>> No.8997646

>>8997631
Good post.

>"OMG DID YOU JUST CUM INSIDE ME?"
>As a matter of fact, I did.

>> No.8997648

>>8997162
Because new atheists are retarded autists.

>> No.8997652

what did rabbi mean by this?

>> No.8997662

>>8997652
>>8997648
>Whenever you get too real /sci/ turns into x and says you're wrong but they don't have any evidence.

>> No.8997665
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8997665

>>8997662
>evidence

>> No.8997670

Two reasons on a consequentialist view.

Reason one is that life itself is valuable. A person born today will probably enjoy being alive more often than not. The amount of life we create should be balanced so that we don't make too much that life becomes less enjoyable. But equally it shouldn't be balanced so far in the other direction that we stop reproducing because then less people will enjoy their lives. Therefore we should allow reproduction on the grounds of satisfying future interests.

Reason two is that people alive today find satisfaction from child rearing. Raising children and passing on your genetic material makes people happy more often than not. Therefore we should allow reproduction on the grounds of satisfying present interests.

>> No.8997682

The most common answer I get is that so that they won't be lonely when they reach old age.

>> No.8997683

>>8997160
>this brainlet thinks that living a truly happy life is possible
Hahahahha

>> No.8997685

>>8997665
>a-autist!

Wew lad you're really sore when you learn the truth

>> No.8997698

>>8997158
Why wouldn't I want to have kids? Life is pretty great tobh pham

>> No.8997716

>>8997158
Because people are dumb animals that follow their instincts and have never once thought about any of that stuff.

>> No.8997750

>>8997158
>my philosophical stance is the absolute objective truth and everyone holds it precisely as i describe it
kys

>> No.8997758

>>8997750
I don't know about philosophical stances, but all religious people are stupid and OP is right.

>> No.8997775

>>8997158

>wouldn't the compassionate, intelligent thing to do be let humankind go extinct a long time ago?
Yes.

>It seems cruel to bring new humans to awareness.
This is the basic premise of antinatalism, and I've yet to come across a solid refutation of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinatalism

>> No.8997780

>>8997158
(((((Ray kurzweil))))))

>> No.8997788

>>8997780
Why do /pol/erinas think they're allowed on the science board?

>> No.8997793

>>8997775
The solid refutation is that antinatalism is the opposite of fitness. Being an antinatalist almost guarantees that you won't pass on your genes to the next generation.
>>8997788
Why do redditors think they're allowed on the science board?

>> No.8997794

>>8997158

Why don't you just man up and finally kill yourself since you seem to be so resentful of life? Life is suffering but there's no need to bring people down to your nihilistic level you sad faggot

>> No.8997806

>>8997793
That's not a refutation, the whole point of antinatalism is that passing on your genes is morally wrong. You're really simple minded, no surprise to see you defending /pol/. Go back to your inbred retard containment board.

>>>/pol/

>> No.8997810

>>8997794
>no need to bring people down

I imagine it's out of justice/resentment. It seems very unfair that worthless, stupid, bad people (anyone religious/spiritual) get to feel satisfied with life because they're ignorant and uneducated while those superior to them are burdened with the harshness of reality.

>> No.8997827
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8997827

Procreation is for fools and sadists.

>>8997670

https://francoistremblay.wordpress.com/2013/02/11/benatars-asymmetry/

>> No.8997829

>>8997630
>the most boring reason to exist

>> No.8997848
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8997848

>>8997793
>The solid refutation is that antinatalism is the opposite of fitness. Being an antinatalist almost guarantees that you won't pass on your genes to the next generation.

That's not a refutation. There's nothing useful about "passing on your genes", the act only produces inconvenience and suffering; It's malignantly useless.

Hint: try to come up with something that isn't appeal to nature.

>> No.8997871

>>8997827
http://hyperlinks-arent-arguments.gov/

>> No.8997874

>>8997793
Objectively speaking, why is passing on your genes to the next generation beneficial?

>> No.8997889
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8997889

>>8997158
Can I replace my kid's brain with mine when he is fully grown and live in a compatible body forever??

>> No.8997898

>>8997158
is life suffering?

>> No.8997907
File: 34 KB, 480x432, benatar-asymmetry15122011eh[1].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8997907

>>8997871

(1) If a person exists, then their pain is a bad thing.
(2) If a person exists, then their pleasure is a good thing.
(3) What does not exist cannot suffer (therefore this non-existing pain is a good thing).
(4) What does not exist cannot be deprived of any pleasure (therefore this non-existing pleasure is not a bad thing).
The end result is that there is a clear asymmetry between pleasure and pain, because of (4).

>> No.8997908

When you ask dying people about their regrets, one of the most common things they say is "I wish I had had kids". It's just human nature dude

>> No.8997910

>>8997908
I'd rather adopt and raise chads superior genes.
My genes aren't good

>> No.8997911

>>8997907
Souls exist even after death. You can still feel pain and pleasure after death

>> No.8997927

>>8997907
I understood the argument before you even hyperlinked it to me. It's a popular argument in support of antinatalism. It doesn't refute me, it ignores my position and proceeds with an argument that supports your position. It's ignoring one framework and substituting it for one you prefer to work in.

Like if someone proposed that abortion is morally permissible on the grounds that a fetus is not a person and only persons can have wrongs done to them.

And then someone rebutted by saying but a fetus has a future that resembles our own and since we want to protect our own futures, we should protect the futures of fetuses.

The second argument is definitely an argument against abortion, but it's not by itself a counterargument to the first argument. It ignores the first argument and builds an alternative framework the anti-abortion person prefers to work within.

I proposed that life is worth living because it contains good things that are worth experiencing in spite of the bad. Your framework is one in which the experiences of life balance each other out to create an experience of life that is neither good nor bad, and by proving that the alternative of not existing is better than that circumstance by virtue of containing at least some net good, we should prefer extinction to continuity.

To respond directly to your argument, which is more than you've done for me, proposition three is defective. The absence of pain is not a good in your framework (where good is equivalent to pleasure, and pain to bad). Me sitting in a chair staring at a wall is neither painful nor pleasureable and therefore neither good nor bad, so there is some quality of experience that is neither good nor bad. The absence of perception by necessity precludes the possibility of pleasure or pain, because there is no perceiver. Therefore asserting that since a non-existing identity does not suffer, it must therefore be the case that this alternative is good. This is a falsehood.

>> No.8997973

>>8997794
Hey man it's not my fault that reality sucks that hard. If you want to get pissy, blame the universe for being a rigged game or science for exposing it as such, not me for being educated on the matter.

>> No.8997977

>>8997911
[citation needed]

>> No.8997988

>>8997158
>>But since an educated individual knows life was doomed from the start,
>Top Kek

>wouldn't the compassionate, intelligent thing to do be let humankind go extinct a long time ago?

You are only making the case the evolution would favor stupid people, which in certain periods (including now) it has in fact favored.

>> No.8998039

I'm a nihilist in the sense that I don't believe mankind has some intrinsic, universe given goal or destiny. We're here through means we still don't fully understand.

However, i really dont think we shouldn't just toss away the odd wonder that we are just because the universe is daunting and scary. We've become so unbelievably capable over a millennia, who knows how far were going to advance in the near future? The knowledge we've collectively gathered should be passed onto the next generation so that they too can work on discoveries to enhance our already impressive collection of knowledge.
Though I do have to concede that humanity is ultimately selfish and at the moment doesn't seem keen on achieving this goal.

Eh, I see it either way.

>> No.8998057

whether or not someone wants to have kids is nobody's business but their own. why won't this meme die?

>> No.8998081

>>8997158
Smart person = good genes
Good genes = good gene ofspring
Good gene of spring = survival of the species
Thus have kids (unless your a /b/tard)

>> No.8998088

>>8998057
Because it's the only circumstance where we give someone license to cause undue suffering and death to a third party without reprimand.

>>8998039
Regardless of potential there is a physical cap on humanity where thought will be incapable of existing and history will end

>> No.8998106

>>8998057

You don't have a right to unilaterally drag someone into this reality without their consent.

>> No.8998120

>>8998106

sure you do. but i agree that it doesn't necessarily mean you should.

>> No.8998218

>>8997806
What other definition of "good" can there be if not fitness?

>> No.8998219

>>8997927
Fuck off tripfag.

>> No.8998243
File: 147 KB, 1300x1120, pregnant-woman-family-women-happy-child-isolated-37504217.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8998243

>>8997158
>that Jew logic instilled in whites to prevent them from breeding

OP, if you are above 130 IQ it is your fucking duty to breed as much as fucking possible. It literally does not matter if you end up taking care of the children or not. Life is nothing more than the continuation of life and that's how you do it.

Anyone who says otherwise is just trying to take you out of the race.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwZ0ZUy7P3E

>> No.8998739

>>8997348
if you've actually studied philosophy and you reach the conclusion of nihilism being ultimate truth, you are a brainlet

>> No.8998947

>>8997908
>When you ask dying people about their regrets, one of the most common things they say is "I wish I had had kids". It's just human nature dude

[citation needed]

>> No.8999003

>>8998243
Life literally can't continue forever unless we don't know all there is to know about science and find out some way to stop or reverse entropy, and after it's all over it doesn't matter how long it lasted.

>>8998739
Enlighten me euphoric one

>> No.8999006

>>8999003
>Life literally can't continue forever unless we don't know all there is to know about science and find out some way to stop or reverse entropy, and after it's all over it doesn't matter how long it lasted.

Sure thing, Jew.

>> No.8999023

>>8997158
Because I want to continue my uninterrupted bloodline of multiple billions of years.

>> No.8999116

>>8998219
Not an argument.

>> No.8999175

>>8999116
No it wasn't, and not that guy, but it does make you a flaming faggot

>> No.8999186

>>8998243
haha that's the guy from mulholland drive that gets spooked by the hobo

>> No.8999270

>>8997158
If you actually believed this you wouldn't be around

>> No.8999283

>>8999175
You lost the argument.

>> No.8999295

>>8997829
virgin

>tfw can finally call people virgin without being virgin myself

>> No.8999298

>>8997889
>tfw my kid gets A+s in all assignments
>tfw change my brain with his when he is fully grown
>tfw he was a brainlet but worked hard
>now stuck as brainlet

>> No.8999319

>>8997158
Emotionless dumbass.

>> No.8999354

>>8999295
having kids =/= having sex

retard

>> No.8999367

>>8997630
You might as well give up OP, a sizable portion of the population is convinced the world revolves around their dick ^^^

>> No.8999379

>>8997158
It's a biological instinct, if you feel at least a bit comfortable and the job/family circumstances are right you'll want to have kids.

>> No.8999402

>>8999354
>he uses a condom

>> No.8999509

>>8997630
I think a better phrasing would be, "The purpose of life is to perpetuate."

Sure, for wild animals that means following breeding instincts, but for self aware humans who know the best thing to do is conserve the finite resources of our planet, abstaining from reproduction is the only logical choice.

I secretly resent everyone I know who's still making babies, and only partially because it means they're getting laid.

>> No.8999521

>>8998081
So who's on board for sterilizing the uneducated? Anyone? I'm down

>> No.8999528

>>8999319
>Not wanting to make another person suffer sapience and die when they could just remain a sweet void at one with the universe, due in part because you personally feel terror at the implications of your existence.

>emotionless.

>> No.8999566

>>8999003
>le euphoric fedora meme
is this 2010? also
>unless we don't know all there is to know about science
wow, you really are a retard.

>> No.8999668

>>8999295
disgusting used goods

>> No.8999751

>>8998243
I'm not white but have an IQ of 134. Don't know why you /pol/-tards are delusional about everything. Is it Schizophrenia? Maybe Bipolar disorder.

>> No.8999765

I'd rather kill people than have kids.
>inb4 edgy

>> No.8999822

>>8997810
*tips fedora*

>> No.8999827

>>8999751
delete this before /pol/ goes on suicide watch

>> No.8999833

>>8997907
Why dies absence of pain is "good" and not "not bad"? Is absence of pain > absence of pleasure, and so pain trumps pleasure in your opinion? Seems very subjective to me.

>> No.8999837

>>8998081
I dont think you understood OPs point.

>> No.8999843

>>8997158

similar question, why should we have kids for the sake of a system that will screw them over too?

>> No.8999857

>>8999833
Pain must equal a negative value (Sounds right to me), and the absence of pain equals a positive value, with pleasure being an even greater positive value.

>> No.8999928

>>8998243
>whites not breeding

if others are the same as us, as our generation has been told again and again, then this is of no consequence, right? if mexicans are having eight kids each, that should be more than enough make up for the kids i'm not having.

>> No.9000030

>>8999751
>I'm not white but

Get lynched, nigger.

>> No.9000033

>>8997158
No because the possibility of an improved future exists and only an unintelligent individual would choose to let their approximation of truth reign over chance and the way the universe unravels.

i.e. only fucking idiots argue against having kids

>> No.9000034

>>8999751
you are probably some spic
i.e. white anyway

>> No.9000037

>>8997806
>morality

Suck a dick humanist

>> No.9000039

>>8997848
Your argument is predicated on morality being objective when it is nothing more than an abstraction of sapience. You try and model your rhetoric as if it were some sort of axiomatic truth, but you lack the maturity to understand that such a juvenile and fallacious stance on what life is and what it deserves is woefully incomplete.

In the end you have the mentality of a 14 year old and I recommend you kill yourself.

>> No.9000043

>>8999857
>Pain must equal a negative value

Why?

>> No.9000046

>>9000033
>their approximation of truth

that's what most people go by.

>> No.9000048

>>8999528
>a complete fucking retarded projection

I am really hoping that this is bait

>> No.9000052

>>9000046
Unfortunately.

>> No.9000061

>>8997158
Stop your carbon footprint now and kill your self you fucking faggot

Or go watch Clannad After Story or something

>> No.9000073

>>8999765
edgy

>> No.9000257

>>9000043
Pain is by definition an unfavorable thing.

>> No.9000272

>>8998243
Yeah, no. I don't want kids, and won't be having them.

>> No.9000277

>>8997158
>Religious people are so dumb for clinging to their backwards beliefs
>Now here's my super edgy anti-natalist argument that depends entirely on my own particular view of morality which even when not being interpreted by an utter idiot like me is in itself a complete spook

I'll spell it out for you. Humans have babies because humans who are inclined not to have babies do not have babies, and so remove themselves from the gene pool.

>tfw there are people too dumb to grasp this concept on their own.

>> No.9000291

>>8997907
>An absence of pleasure is not bad
You realise that that is literally what depression is, right? But it's meaningless anyway because morality does not apply to non-existent hypothetical persons. Or are you going to claim that every dude who ever jacks off is a mass-murderer for sending all those potential lives into a bit of tissue?

>> No.9000299

>>8997907
The absence of pain cannot be considered good in this logical framework is to be consistent, it must simply be neutral, or "not bad."

The entire foundation of the "asymmetry" is flawed.

>> No.9000311

>>8998106
>You don't have a right to unilaterally drag someone into this reality without their consent.
>right
Spooky.
>consent
>consent of a hypothetical person that literally does not exist yet
Spooky. they can remove themselves from existence if they find the pain to be so unbearable.
>drag someone into this reality
>implying they existed outside of this reality
>implying souls
Spooky.

Why are antinatalists so retarded? In fact, if life is so fucking awful, why not remove yourself from it? No wait, don't tell me, it's because you need to selflessly spread the word of the enlightening light of antinatalism to the poor, immoral masses of humanity.

>> No.9000323

>>8997174
is this fresh pasta?

>> No.9000333

>>9000257
Who created this definition?

Besides the fact that your definition is incorrect, pain is an adaptation for suvivality i.e. a positive trait to posess and why just about every organism on this planet experiences pain or a pain analogue you fucking retard

>> No.9000359
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9000359

>science says we are doomed
>Science provided from people who only discovered and harnessed the atom and stopped using horses as their main mode of transportation a little over a hundred years ago
It's beyond naive to believe that we have even a basic understanding on how the universe works when we barely grasp our own planet let alone our galaxy.

>> No.9000377

OP is a confirmed REDDITOR from /r/childfree and has been spamming antinatalist threads obsessively on /sci/ and /his/ for a while, over a year now apparently

http://desuarchive.org/his/search/text/antinatalism/type/op/order/asc/

They can be easily disproved by pointing out the double standard in their thinking.

The antinatalist is allowed to arbitrarily declare avoiding pain to be the only thing that matters but no one else is allowed to assign value to anything else. To prove their case they would need to apply the same standards to themselves, but their position is unfalsifiable.

>> No.9000397

>>9000333
You're being extremely obtuse. Pain clearly refers in Benatar's case to all undesirable stimuli and psychological circumstances. It's literally just a catch-all term for undesired, negative experiences. He isn't arguing from any biological framework of adaptive advantage.

Nice trips though.

>> No.9000407

>>9000034
I'm half black half white.
So I'm black according to the one drop "rule". Making all of /pol/eddit's racebait wrong automatically. Thank god for the WAIS.

>> No.9000423

>>8997908
I hate most arguments related to the deathbed. If I've lived a life I've enjoyed and the last five minutes of that life are spent in regret that doesn't lend those minutes any special importance over any other five minutes of my life. I'm notaking an argument for or against procreation, maybe having kids would have madey life more enjoyable overall. But just because I regret something in my deathbed doesn't make it the final word.

>> No.9000451

>>9000377
Too bad they wouldn't avoid pain via suicide huh

>> No.9001930

>>8997683
Sorry to break it to you anon, but you're delusional. Happiness is definitely possible. Even more so if you're ignorant, but that's another story.

>> No.9001967

>im so smart lol im not have babies
>let's let all the stupid people breed yes great idea

>> No.9002147
File: 56 KB, 640x400, mbti IQ.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9002147

>>9001967
the most intelligent people are INTP personality types

>> No.9002152
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9002152

>>9001967
>>9002147
however they are also the most unhappy and often plagued with suicidal thoughts. That's not very good is it?
Do we want more intelligent and suicidal people on this planet?

>> No.9002165
File: 169 KB, 1366x1892, r9k mbti strawpoll 1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9002165

>>9002152
>>9001967
and in addition to this.
30% of 4chan is probably INTP

>> No.9002312

>>8997665
>autists are atheist
>autists are also more intelligent and logically thinking people, just not as good socially
heh

>> No.9002319

>>9002312
Jews are intelligent and still less autistic than atheists according to that chart. How about that?

>> No.9002343

>>8997158
Because at some point, they become aware of the fact that they will die and they are too cowardly or stupid to try and fight death by learning science so instead they decide to just go along with the universe's will by reproducing. Because at least that way, their DNA will live on. That's why getting married and having kids is referred to as "settling down", because the fire of ambition is gone and you've resigned yourself to an early grave.

>> No.9002740
File: 114 KB, 600x527, autistic screeching.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9002740

>>9002312
>autists are also more intelligent and logically thinking people

What is "intelligent and logically thinking" about screaming [math]FREEDOM[/math] while crashing your car into the Ten Commandments?

>> No.9002778

>>9002147
>high school students
>not even finished with puberty
>haven't been exposed to the real world yet
>pretentious horoscopes
>green is my favorite color

>> No.9002806
File: 755 KB, 813x644, 1498159127954.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9002806

>>8997158
Your statement is baseless conjecture.

Why are you posting here you fucking moron?

>> No.9002995

I'll throw lots of death and suffering at the wall on the extremy slim chance that a very distant future generation can figure how to live a post-suffering existence.
You miss every shot that you don't take.

>> No.9003007

>>8997665 >>9002312
I have my own Religious system. Superior in my opinion:

Combining Christianity + Nordic Paganism + Japanese Mythology + Greece Philosophy + Freemason Occultism + Judaism + Egyptian Mythology + tiny bits from Islam.

Proudly a Fully Autistic Religious System. Specially crafted & Suited for me.

>>9002312 >>9002319 >>8997685

>> No.9003018

>>8997158
They are so narcissistic they want more of themselves out there so as to create the impression that they are everywhere.

>> No.9003022

>>9002995

>a post-suffering existence

Contradiction in terms

>> No.9003028

>>9000311

This is the Non-Identity Problem which Benatar addresses in his book.

https://francoistremblay.wordpress.com/2011/08/11/the-non-identity-problem/

>> No.9003031

>>9003022
>le existence is suffering im a smart nihilism meme

>> No.9003087
File: 367 KB, 613x405, Screenshot-2017-01-15-at-5.51.33-PM[1].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9003087

>>9003031

t. American high school student

>> No.9003089

>>9001930
if and only if*

>> No.9003357

>>8997158
>non existence solves all problems no man no problem :^)