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/sci/ - Science & Math


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8971145 No.8971145 [Reply] [Original]

Remind me why /sci/ hates CS so much?

>> No.8971150

It's not the subject per se, but the cancerous students that think they qill be 1337 haxors.

>> No.8971151
File: 89 KB, 1155x409, The truth about CS.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8971151

>>8971145

>> No.8971173

First year CS/Comp&Network Engineering double student here, would like to know why /sci/ hates CS. I'm not about to defend the students, majority of the people in my Java class are exactly as >>8971151 describes.

>> No.8971181

>>8971145
>>8971150
>>8971151
>>8971173
It's just a meme, faggots. Most people on /sci/ enjoy programming, algorithms and that sorta thing.

>> No.8971183

>>8971151
Wow burgers are cucked. Meanwhile on ETH, CS students get work offers as soon as second semester. Most of those anti-intellectuals drop out after first year, same goes for Physics. In my year, they admitted ~800 people, second year there were less than 100. There were 26 people who got BSc.

>> No.8971189

>>8971145
Developer here. Studied physics in college, but went into programming.

What I like about CS is that with computers everything is definite, absolute and consistent whereas in physics uncertainty is the rule.

>> No.8971204

>>8971151
While their may be some truth regarding the students, and even then it could be said about pretty much all majors, people aren't actually dumb enough to believe this, right? I really hope no one got fooled by /sci/ into thinking CS is a 4 year GUI degree.

>> No.8971220
File: 287 KB, 836x1065, 1455310679806.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8971220

>>8971181

>> No.8971332

>>8971189
Keep telling yourself that, brainlet. CS is just as inconsistent when compared to Mathematics and you know it.

>>8971181
That's cultural appropriation. Don't act like algorithms are a CS thing. Euclid came up with an algorithm long before you machine cucks were even born.

>> No.8971336

>>8971173
>>8971204
Because CS is such a vague term, BSc programs in CS often offer many possibilities to branch out in the elective part of the program. At my university you had people getting their BSc with 2 semesters worth of pure maths classes (most also taken by the maths students) - and you had people literally making it a 4 year GUI degree only taking shallow into X courses and avoiding any theory and maths after the mandatory logic course and calc 3. Most people did the latter of course.

And as /sci/ posters are mostly undergrads and overidentify with their subject, they only compare to the undergrads of other fields and deduce that as CS students are scum, the field must be shit.

>> No.8971369
File: 386 KB, 2100x1400, YFzUsDZ.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8971369

>>8971145
I'm in computer engineering and I notice a fairly large difference between the kids in the CS classes vs engineering classes at least (this is not counting the wannabe elitist math/physics majors). The weird guys in engineering might be a little bit of a dick or a showoff, but it pales in comparison in the CS classes

The weirdos in CS are the cringiest, most absolute sperglords you'll ever meet. I am taking an advanced programming class other cmpe students don't have to take, so it's all CS majors and some of them are like characters out of a movie, but unironically. There's:

1. A big, fat guy that laughs (really loud, and often) like a psychotic cartoon character.

2. A girl that cannot contain her autistic commentary outbursts to whatever the prof is saying

3. Typical loud autism guy that shouts and sounds half-retarded

4. Around 10% of the guys all have man-buns

5. Only class I am in where there are multiple kids playing games on gaming laptops (why even fucking come to class?)

6. Tons of foreign students that always seem to either be actively cheating, or getting caught cheating

7. Another 20% of the kids think they know better than the professor and constantly get BTFO all quarter.

8. Literal autistic meltdowns (turning red, shouting/swearing, crying) over bad grades and having to be asked to leave by the prof.

It's a fucking circus full of irritating clowns. Thank god I will be done with my last CS class on Thursday.

>> No.8971388

>>8971369
>The weirdos in CS are the cringiest, most absolute sperglords you'll ever meet.
True. So that's why i have dropped cs last week

>> No.8971398

CSfag here. Finished calc I and II and plan to take classes on vector/multivariable calc, linalg, diff EQs, and real and numerical analysis (as well as a few other math courses that are related to computing.) Is this enough to save me from the memes?

Also, before anyone asks: yes, I did take the CS department's shitty discrete math course. It was required. Yes, all the memes are true. No, I'm not taking the real version of the course.

>> No.8971408

>>8971369
nothing wrong with man-buns

>> No.8971411

>>8971145
Because CS majors do this shit all the time:
https://developers.slashdot.org/story/17/06/10/0450234/developer-accidentally-deletes-production-database-on-their-first-day-on-the-job

>> No.8971414

>>8971220
>We learn about logic like DeMorgan's Law, graph theory like A*, and discrete probability like Bayes' law.

You forgot combinatorics like the pigeonhole principle, linear algebra like Gaussian elimination, real analysis like limits, numerical analysis like the bisection method, and abstract algebraic number theory like modulo operations in fizzbuzz engineering.

>> No.8971418

>>8971408
I know, I occasionally wear my hair up in one for convenience. But I am worried that it will become synonymous with the gomers in those classes

>> No.8971454

>>8971369
I could have written your post word for word

t. CmpE in CS classes

>> No.8971483

>>8971145
[math]\text{What is so CS about }\LaTeX \text{ ?}[/math]

>> No.8971499

>>8971145
Envy.

Since they actually get a job.

>> No.8971510

>>8971499
>Since they actually get a job.
>Worst enjoyment prospects of any UK graduate.

Don't know what it's like in the US, but I'd imagine it's similar.

>> No.8971515

>>8971145
Because the bulk of CS majors are cancerous idiots
t. CS Major.

>> No.8971522

>>8971388
>that's why i have dropped cs last week

are you the guy freaking out about the pumping lemma?

>> No.8971555

>>8971411
what was the command he copy-pasted to delete everything tho?

>> No.8971562

The actual reason is because they're most common here, therefore bait threads are more successful. It's like why there are so many anti-American threads on int

>> No.8971587

>>8971483
TeX is Turing complete, which is more than can be said for some of the other languages in that pic.

>> No.8971608

>>8971332
>something is used in computer science
>but people have already been using it for a while
>therefore, disregard it entirely

>> No.8971834

>>8971183
So do the memes only apply on Burger Universities? Because I am also considering CS at ETH, and I want to be prepared for an eventual docorate in a CS related field. While browsing /sci/ I received the impression, a math degree or maybe even a physics degree would prepare me better for researching in a very mathematical CS field.

>> No.8971863

>>8971834
No idea about burger unis, i'm from Russia MSU. I doubt these memes are true unless it's some low-tier uni.
You'd better go to math and visit CS lectures on free time or watch the records. Especially for research positions or career in academia. Friend went to ETH CS and got an offer in second semester and he wasn't even the best in his class.

>> No.8971864

>>8971150
>1337 haxors.
what?

t. cs student

>> No.8971867

>>8971510
It's an extremely competitive field, so yeah it's pretty similar.

You'll have a tough time getting a job with the degree by itself.

>> No.8971868

>>8971834
>So do the memes only apply on Burger Universities?
Probably. Most likely. Yes.

>> No.8971869

>>8971151
>studying to "get intellectual qualifications"
stopped reading there. damn neets

>> No.8971875

>Wow burgers are cucked
>So do the memes only apply on Burger Universities?
>Probably. Most likely. Yes.
kys retards

>> No.8971877

>>8971145
Not even false flagging or baiting, but it's mostly because I'm salty as fuck.

I did a rigorous undergrad going through hours of lab courses and doing undergrad research in chemistry l, going to conferences, writing papers, even getting a small grant for my lab as an undergrad. Now I'm in grad school where I am basically a slave for the next 4 years where I'll *hopefully* get my PhD while listening to every grad student and their brother around me bitch about how depressing it is there is no jobs after we graduate and how shitty their life is.

Meanwhile, my friend who graduated with a CS degree has worked for multiple companies, has no student loan debt, is seeing the world, living in beautiful city apartments, and driving sexy cars. And now CS majors want my respect? No thanks. You have enough going for you.

>> No.8971879

>>8971877
You may be baiting but it is true.

>> No.8971882

Getting an undergraduate degree in anything is easy enough.
When it comes to any degree, you just have to not be stupid (read: have marketable skills that extend beyond simply the scope of your undergrad curriculum) to get a job.

>> No.8971884

>>8971877
t. CS undergrad who cant take the memes anymore, writing this with tears rolling down his cheeks

>> No.8971897

>>8971151
I know the feel. I'm studying CS because I really like computer and I've been tinkering with them since childhood but there are students in my group who don't know what Windows is. What can you possibly do with that degree if you lack the basic understanding of computers and software? I'm thinking about changing universities after I complete my junior year because of retards who think writing some lines of HTML is programming.

>> No.8971906

>>8971220
>Implying that theoretical CS is more math heavy than theoretical physics

>> No.8971914

>>8971398
What were you taught in calc I and II? I had to take a mandatory math class and we were taught differential equations, integral math, matrices and complex numbers.

>> No.8971917

>>8971388
>Dropping out because of your peers
Let's be honest brainlet, you weren't very dedicated to begin with.

>> No.8971949

>>8971863
>>8971868
Ok thanks.

@8971863: Has your friend said anything about the difficulty of the math classes?

>> No.8971959

>>8971877
Why are you sticking with it, anon? Inertia?
I was in Northwestern's PhD program and got tired of being a glorified lab monkey for assholes so I quit. A lot of the smarter students did as well, extraneous life events notwithstanding I'm far less depressed now. You've made it as far as you have so you're bright enough to learn whatever you want online. I'm gonna breeze through some CC prereqs then get a master's in bioinformatics or something. If your life sucks, change it.

>> No.8971971

>>8971959
Studying Cs for getting a comfy job and learning math and physics on your own seems to be best way.

>> No.8971975

>>8971369
I feel like this is my experience with comp sci/math/philosophy/English/any class really.

And your reward for suffering through these spergs and losing thousands in tuition? You get to wage slave away, lifting up Chad Shecklbergs throne and waking up early every morning to go to a place with people that make your stomach churn so you can do some shitty grunt work in hopes of kissing ass and clawing your way up the backs of others to get a paltry "promotion", repeat this process every day until you are an aged old retired man that gets to spend the whole week planning his haircuts.

That's why I dropped out of college. I'm making more on Amazon right now than I would have after 2 more years of school to become an actuarycuck. Now I'm going to start a fucking MLM business. The only way not to get scammed by life is to start your own business. I just want to pay people to do the work and make money for me.

>> No.8971983

>>8971949
He wasn't really good at math, that's why he didn't go to MSU with me. But from comparison, it seemed adequate. Nothing amazing, if you can go to France (which seems likely since you're considering ETH), their math is superior.

>> No.8971984

>>8971975
So are you just reselling stuff for a higher price or what?

>> No.8971987

>>8971983
Ok thanks.

>> No.8972015

>>8971984
On Amazon? Yeah. Anywhere where you can buy shit cheaper/get shit free. Buy wholesale online, buy clearance items that are 66+% off, get books from "free book" piles at college, etc. It is not something I can scale easily, and I'm the only employee, I want something where I can outsource all the work.

>> No.8972024

>>8971906
It is.

>> No.8972068

>>8971555
sudo rm -rf /*

>> No.8972071

>>8971562
CS majors belong on /g/ dude.

>> No.8972074

>>8971864
And Newfag it seems.

>> No.8972084

>>8971834
From what I've seen in EPFL the Communication Systems graduates have better maths skills than engineers whereas Computer Science haven't.

>> No.8972088

>>8971834
>memes
>apply

logic, retard, do you speak it? they are called memes for a reason because you can't "apply" them.

>> No.8972094

CS students all think they are going to go to Silicon Valley and land a $120,000 a year job with generous benefits.

Most actual computer professsions could be done by someone that spent a year or two getting certifications.

Code Monkeys spend a lot of time debugging the work from Rhajesh and Pajeet, from the Calcutta branch.

>> No.8972164
File: 31 KB, 694x968, X on SCI.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8972164

>>8971145

>> No.8972298

So if I want to get into a computer related field, what degree should I go for?

>> No.8972308

>>8972298
Some sort of computer engineering, ECE, or computer science engineering will pay better and have more prestige than a CS bachelor, but there are more CS jobs out there.

>> No.8972323

>>8971220
>im smart
>i can use induction and know discrete maths
WOW

>> No.8972325

>>8972024
During my math msci I took the hardest courses from comp sci and physics

-Turing Machines/Complexity theory/Lambda calculus shit 3 courses
-QM, QFT, GR 5 courses

There is no way that comp sci is more mathematical than theoretical physics.

>> No.8972326
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8972326

>>8971151
>someone didn't know what a logarithm is

>> No.8972328

>>8971971
Why not just study math, physic and chemistry but taking CS classes on the side and learning languages in your spare time?
You won't be as good at programming as the code-monkeys, but you'll have done something you enjoyed and gained valuable analysis skills.

>> No.8972329

>>8972164
Tachyons should be there

>> No.8972330

I suppose all the people saying CS is easy know how to prove or disprove P=NP

>> No.8972333

>>8971414
LOL
rekt
fuck, this actually is like the scope of CS maths
but they just don't NEED more

>> No.8972339

>>8971418
>has long hair as a man
>calls others autistic

>> No.8972428

>>8971917
no one is, millions of kids are forced into it because they "like computers and video-games", yet programming is the labor equivalent of ditch digging, you spend your whole time just learning syntax and logic. nothing basic cant be understood, but if you don't care for it, its hell

>> No.8972444

3rd year CS student here
I'm first author on a paper in a t1 conference, coauthor with the director of a division at a national lab that you've probably heard of, at least if you're american

>tfw the paper is just pearson correlations of some vapid shit, but presented in a flowery fashion

>> No.8972565

>>8971369
"Wow thanks to this guys anecdote, I now understand that all CS students are autistic retards!!! Thanks!! I change my major to Applied Mathematics!!!"

-No One Ever

>> No.8972575

>>8972565
>applied mathematics
>applied
you got it wrong faggot, switch to math

>> No.8972787

Anyone saying CS majors are unemployable are delusional or just plain butthurt. The major is far more complex then the intro classes make it out to be. Any decent university requires the same number of math classes that an engineer would take.

If your goal is to find a job, then CS is one of the best majors. Only a fool would major in physics or math over CS.

>> No.8972883

>>8972565
This is exactly the kind of cringey autism everyone hates you guys for. Thanks for proving my point faggot.

>> No.8972885

>>8972339
t. balding guy

>> No.8972894
File: 423 KB, 490x684, Hardest class in CS.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8972894

>>8972787
>number of math
>number

Taking watered down discrete math, watered down discrete probability, and watered down matrix algebra doesn't count.

inB4
>but half muh class failed discrete math so it must be hardcore

>> No.8972897

>>8971189
W-what?

What's the exact opposite of how it works!

>> No.8972902

>>8971897
People shit on HTML but 15 years ago it was a useful skill.

Do people even bother to learn it now just curious?

>> No.8972903

>>8972164
>no Terraforming

>> No.8972931

>>8972894
Besides discrete math, all math classes are offered from the math department. Also, its not like the math classes are the only hard challenging classes in the major.

>> No.8972946

>>8971145


> time to pick a major
> well, my only interest is video gaymes
> hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

>> No.8972970

>>8971145
>Remind me why /sci/ hates CS so much?

It's just the math and physics guys. Success breeds jealousy.

>> No.8972977

In my experience, /sci/ in general doesn't like engineering or computer science because they're much more like trades than they are actual sciences. They employ math and science, but they aren't descriptive in nature.

It's the societal infatuation we have with CS because of societal infatuation with computers, and the fact that it's such a new advent that leads us to respect CS in the real world. On /sci/ that pretense is dropped because a lot of people are fully aware of just how bullshit it is to put CS on a pedestal compared to other sciences.

I

>> No.8972981

>>8972977
Fuck it entered too early.

I mean, don't get me wrong, CS is a good hobby.

>> No.8972991

>>8971145
CS major here, just graduated, starting a job at Google in August.

I never went into the hard-theory aspects of CS, but I have immense respect for it. I never try to excuse myself by saying that 'CS is hard math' or whatever. I mean, it is, but I don't pretend that programming == CS.

Am I still a baddie?

>> No.8972994

>>8971411
If you manage to delete a database on your first day, that's on the company not you. No way that shit should happen

>> No.8972995

>>8971834
American education is broad at undergraduate level. Do what interests you. If you still want to go to grad school at the end you can pick up the math when you need it.

>> No.8972996

>>8971369
I unironically like assembly.
I always get the impression that everyone in the world hates it because everyone else in my class threw a fit when trying to do recursion with it.

>> No.8973017

>>8972977
I don't know, the fact we can separate problems by their hardness into distinct classes is fucking weird.
complexity deals with fundamental problems of time and space, and I think the question of what can be computed in any given amount of time and space definitely describes something larger about the nature of our universe.

I think computer science is unique in that it's research can be of science, engineering, theoretical methods.

>> No.8973021

>>8973017
Oh yeah, I definitely don't think we can discuss it as an issue of difficulty.

I think it's that we end up trying to do that, and lose something in the process. CS is fundamentally different from the descriptive processes of physics, chemistry, or biology, and the fact that we can conflate CS with them is silly, since it has a lot more to do with engineering and the application/creation of processes based on what we've already discovered than it has to do with formulating models of understanding and theories like in the natural sciences.

Regular society is rife with the problem that people who utilize these principles prescriptively are idolized, and so it grates on a lot of people on /sci/ I've talked to. Doctors, Engineers, Programmers, etc, are thought to be the academic elite, when people actually studying subjects like Chemistry and Physics are very much aware there are a lot of brainlet programmers, engineers, and doctors.

That's not to say there aren't geniuses in the aforementioned fields, just that they are fundamentally different on the aspect of whether or not it's descriptive or prescriptive, and so it should be treated as such.

Pure maths, logicians, and the like are more akin to the natural scientists than people who develop things, simply put.

>> No.8973057

>>8972902
As a pet project, yes. I dedicated a couple weeks to HTML back in high school and learned all I'll ever need to know about it. I only even did it so I could put a lot of custom fuckery on my MySpace page. It's PHP, SQL, JavaScript, and the like that really make the resume for your CS majors.

If you put your name onto some shitty little Web site as its sole developer, you get flooded with calls about jobs. I'm an ME major, too, not CS, so Web design experience might be all you really need to easily land a CS-related job.

>> No.8973068
File: 60 KB, 640x457, tethered.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8973068

>>8973057

>If you put your name onto some shitty little Web site as its sole developer, you get flooded with calls about jobs

A bunch of Indian companies, right? I thought it had more to do with putting it on LinkedIn and being from a nice school.

>> No.8973076

>>8973057
so cs really is a meme degree?

>> No.8973078

>>8973068
> alligator clips on hair
how did I not notice how shitty this show was earlier?

>> No.8973081

>>8973021
I'm not certain I understand, do you think computer science is engineered into existence, rather than something defined "naturally" like how atoms interact?

>> No.8973083

>>8973076
You don't understand how badly web developers are in demand

>> No.8973084
File: 72 KB, 640x617, 1464625537489.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8973084

>>8973057
>It's PHP, SQL, JavaScript, and the like that really make the resume for your CS majors.

>> No.8973098

>>8973078
She is projecting herself into the Wired, hair and all. The screens projected around her have a magic about them, too.

My question is how she got all of the materials to make that shit up into her room. I can buy that her dad who was always buying computer parts before the start of the series would fund her, but when the explosion went off, it showed the pressure rise on what looked like a fucking boiler.

Also, no, rave boy, the green fluid is not liquid carbon.

>> No.8973208

>>8971369
this

>> No.8974574

>>8973057
>I only even did it so I could put a lot of custom fuckery on my MySpace
That actually sounds like a decent way to structure a Web design course. Get your students to dick wave to each other about how great their custom pages are. Maybe with an implication but no explicit guarantee that they'll be graded competitively.

>> No.8974594

Reading this thread, I noticed that american CS students are immature as fuck. No wonder chinks are beating your fat arses on IEEE.

>> No.8974915

CS tools are so incredibly useful in /sci/ fields that hating it on its own is just stupid and basically like hating calculators and people who use them.

however most cs students want to put a wonderful tool to shit use, so hating them is fine.

>> No.8974959

>>8974915
CS tools are made by CpEs and EEs.

>> No.8975051

>>8971398
>yes, I did take the CS department's shitty discrete math course. It was required. Yes, all the memes are true. No, I'm not taking the real version of the course.

Most schools let you switch one for the other. I took the math's department DM as a replacement for the CS one. Also took Math's Stat instead of Business Stat.

>> No.8975053

>>8972946

Jesus, this. About 90% of CS majors are there because of video games

>> No.8975067

>>8971388
1 cringy sperglord less in CS

The nice thing is, those people disappear quite quickly once you advance a little bit further with it (at least in decent universities)

>> No.8975141

>>8971204
everyone I know with a CS degree can't do calculus and only knows java (except that one dude who uses Unity and C#)

>> No.8976584

>>8971398

if you trying to impress the math peeps, then only class on list even remotely challenging is real analysis and first quarter is also easy. anyway who cares what anyone else thinks just be best you can.

>> No.8976587

>>8971414
>real analysis like limits

>> No.8976595

>>8971145
Once you've used MATLAB, it just seems so silly having to loop though things one at a time.

>> No.8976940

>>8972094
>Code Monkeys spend a lot of time debugging the work from Rhajesh and Pajeet, from the Calcutta branch.

Made me laugh.

t.pajeet

>> No.8977023

I was thinking about switching from CS to Math. Just finished first year. Future CS modules look so shit. It is another 3 years of doing interesting shit vs making platformers in C#. Ideally I will be able to take a module in programming every semester as the course load looks very easy and is stuff I have done before in C/C++ anyways.

>> No.8977053

>>8971587
All of them are touring complete

Heck, even CSS is touring complete

>> No.8977062

It's not really a science, more of a technology / art.

It's very popular and lucrative, unlike the more esoteric scientific fields.

4chan likes to be contrarian.

>> No.8977102

>>8972329
>FTL

>> No.8977706

>>8972330
Should we tell this guy or not?

>> No.8977709
File: 524 KB, 900x1052, 1495663929574.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8977709

>>8971145
For the same reasons people hate shadbase.

They are plebs.

>> No.8978024

>>8971151
>shitting on theoretical CS just because
wew lad

>> No.8978343

>>8973021
>Oh yeah, I definitely don't think we can discuss it as an issue of difficulty.
what the fuck that wasn't what he was talking about at all
cs is no less an application of maths as physics is, think you're confused as to what the field actually is
pretty much what >>8973081 said

>> No.8978374

>>8971151
Just because this brainlet went to a shit university doesn't make him an expert on CS majors. At good universities, CS majors go about as in depth into their subject as math and physics majors

>> No.8978409

>>8972428
A C C R E A T E

>> No.8978477

>>8971145
CS is where the people who find real world physics too hard go to. They take solace about being able to simulate complex systems (and noting how much they deviate from real life experiments, ironically) rather than having the mojos to do physical experiments.