/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.8618481]

>/sci/ thinks math is god tier
>mathematicians dont create or discover anything they just use logic and axioms to find the solution, no skill needed, we can just get rid of them all and use computers
>philosophy actually requires you to use your intelligence and creativity to come up with something new
>not even computers can do that
>philosophy is god tier
>studying philosophy
>feelsgoodman

[Anonymous No.8618485]

>>8618481
>philosophers dont create or discover anything they just use logic and wordplay to make things up, no skill needed, we can just get rid of them all and use aspies

[Anonymous No.8618487]

>>8618485
>Impying coming up with new ideas isnt "creating"
>Implying creativy is not a skill

desu ~

[Anonymous No.8618489]

>>8618481
Low quality bait.

[Anonymous No.8618490]

>>8618489
Not a bait.

Also not an argument. Desu~

[Anonymous No.8618496]

>he says logic is useless
>meanwhile he's sending messages from his computer to an indonesian graphic novel forum

yeah man I'm sure that philosophers are going to design a computer that can design file formats, create rules that encode and decode messages, analyze signals, and fucking build itself

also a philosopher never came up with anything genuinely new, so fuck off, undergrad

[Anonymous No.8618497]

>>8618487
>creativity is a "skill"

A 2 year old niglet posesses creativity. Downies literally missing a chromosome posesses creativity. Theres some substantial evidence that non-sentient animals posesses some degree of creativity. Some rudiemntary machine learning algorithms are capable of "creativity".
The ability to comprehend abstract logic puzzles is inifnitly more of a skill than being "creative".

[Anonymous No.8618498]

>>8618496
if it weren't for philosophy Aristotle and Archimedes wouldn't have invented science.

[Anonymous No.8618501]

>>8618496
Nice strawman m8 I never said logic was useless, I said that if logic and axioms are the only thing needed to do math then mathematicians do not create/discover anything they just use logic to find the solution using axioms and computers can do that better.

>>8618497
>Implying creativity is not a skill
>Implying everyone has the same degree of creavity or that you cant develop your creativity
>Implying you can do better logic than a computer who is perfect and thus we shouldnt replace you with a machine.

You need a better argument m8

Desu~

[Anonymous No.8618502]

>>8618498
if it weren't for philosophy universities wouldn't be able to drain money from the children of idiots to support actual useful intellectual endeavors like physics and engineering

>>8618501
keep posting compressed cartoon pictures. I bet the computer you're using is employing a complicated problem-solving algorithm every time you click "submit", right? Or did someone with vastly more knowledge of "logic and axioms" design a machine that you don't even fully understand?

[Anonymous No.8618503]

>>8618481
t. someone who has no idea how to get mathematical proofs

[Anonymous No.8618505]

>>8618481
mathematics does involve creativity, it is also in a sense the highest, purest form of philosophy, the closest science (in an Aristotelian sense of 'science') to attaining absolute truth about Reality with a capital R.

The value of philosophy is in it allowing us to understand how we can use our knowledge of absolute truths (in mathematics and logic), to attempt to answer questions that are more vague in nature (i.e. nature of causality, modality, existence).

If of course your idea of philosophy includes the crazed ramblings of schizo patients aka """"""""continental""""""" """"""""philosophers""""""", then you should know that your field is as valuable as the dog shit that you probably think we are as valuable as anyway

[Anonymous No.8618506]

>>8618502
>l useful intellectual endeavors like physics and engineering

LOL name one significant contribution from physics/engineering you literal autist. all you faggots do is make a theory of optimizing phillips screwheads and then the engineers spend a billion dollars simulating it in MATLAB.

[Anonymous No.8618513]

>>8618506
>name one significant contribution from physics/engineering
how about the fact that your computer fits in your house, you fucking mong?

[Anonymous No.8618514]

>>8618502
>keep posting compressed cartoon pictures
nice ad hominem

>>8618505
>Implying you can get to know anything about reality from a closed artificial system

Also

>If of course your idea of philosophy includes the crazed ramblings of schizo patients aka """"""""continental""""""" """"""""philosophers""""""", then you should know that your field is as valuable as the dog shit that you probably think we are as valuable as anyway

Not an argument.

Desu~

[Anonymous No.8618515]

>>8618513
wow you made an already existing machine smaller! holy shit someone give this guy a medal for best Tetris player!

[Anonymous No.8618516]

>>8618481
>>8618487
>>8618490
>>8618501
>>8618514
Take your pedophile cartoons back to >>>/a/

[Anonymous No.8618517]

>>8618516
Not an argument

Desu~

[Anonymous No.8618519]

>>8618515
wow holy shit, you got me
i guess philosophy really is the best

i eagerly await the day that a superior mind like yours makes a contribution to humanity instead of just serving me coffee!

[Anonymous No.8618521]

>>8618506
>LOL name one significant contribution from physics/engineering
...everything?
Newton was a physicist, Tesla was an engineer, Von Neumann was a physicist, Kirchoff was an engineer...i could go on forever

[Anonymous No.8618525]

>>8618481
>>philosophy actually requires you to use your intelligence and creativity to come up with something new
Is that why modern day philosophers never come up with anything useful?

[Anonymous No.8618528]

>>8618481
>>8618487
>>8618490
>>8618501
>>8618514
>>8618517
why do you even bother coming back here when all you ever do is get BTFO?
if you're feeling masochistic why don't you just stare into a mirror? you'll use less energy that way

[Anonymous No.8618529]

>>8618525
>Is that why modern day philosophers never come up with anything useful?

>Using an unknown subjective definition of 'useful'
>Implying that even if they didnt do anything 'useful' it means that philosophy has the potention to be greater than maths because it actually creates new ideas instead of just deducing stuff from initial axioms.

Also not an argument.

>>8618528

Not an argument

[Anonymous No.8618530]

>>8618501
Define skill pls mr. autist.
I define skill as "expertise in an action". If every creature from the intellectual top down to my dog has creative capacity, "creativity" is not in any sense an expertise. Any retard is capable of creativity.

[Anonymous No.8618532]

>>8618529
>maybe if i keep typing "not an argument" I can convince someone that I'm not a retard
>maybe they'll try to engage me in conversation
the reason nobody likes talking to you is because you're an obnoxious mental midget

[Anonymous No.8618534]

>>8618530
Cambridge Dictionary defines skill as 'an ability to do an activity or job well, especially because you have practised it'

> If every creature from the intellectual top down to my dog has creative capacity

Dogs do not have creative capacity because in order to think creatively you need to be able to think abstractly and in order to think abstractly you need to be able to understand symbols which is a feature humans are not born with.

So creativity is indeed a skill you can develop. I think you should get your facts straight before commenting shit like "any retard is capable of creativity" and stop getting rekt m8.

>>8618532
I would stop saying "not an argument" when people stop using falacies, non-arguments or just insulting me instead of using actual arguments.

Desu~

[Anonymous No.8618538]

>>8618515
yeah man that transistor just invented itself

[Anonymous No.8618543]

>>8618529
I didn't say it doesn't have the potential to be useful, I am saying you and your colleagues are too retarded to do anything useful with it. Maybe we should force math majors to do philosophy.

[Anonymous No.8618545]

>>8618543
>Implying all philosophers are the same
>Implying your definition of useful whatever it is is the actual definition of useful
>Implying math majors have the skillset needed for philosophy

Desu ~

[Anonymous No.8618551]

>>8618545
you have to stop
your impotent autistic rage is turning this thread into a singularity
because you're so fucking dense

[Anonymous No.8618553]

>>8618551
>your impotent autistic rage is turning this thread into a singularity because you're so fucking dense
kek

[Anonymous No.8618554]

>>8618551

Not an argument.

Im waiting for someone to actually prove me wrong with valid arguments

Desu~

[Anonymous No.8618561]

>>8618545
>something useful
Anything that improves the lives of people who aren't philosophers themselves

>skillset needed to do philosophy
You mean basic logic and the habit of arguing yourself out of any kind of quality assessment by claiming that everything is either relative or subjective?

[Anonymous No.8618563]

>>8618554
>I haven't been proven wrong therefore I'm not wrong
Did they teach you that in philosophy class?
Did you keep the receipt?

[Anonymous No.8618571]

>>8618563
I said that I wasnt proven wrong not that I was right.

Not an argument m8

>>8618561

>Implying that we should use your own definition of useful
>Implying that what philosophers do is not "useful"
>Implying that what philosophers do should be "useful"
>Implying that the only things needed to do philosophy are "basic logic" and "arguing with yourself out of any kind of quality assessment by claiming that everything is either relative or subjective"

Desu~

[Anonymous No.8618572]

>>8618534
Okay? So creativity still doesn't fall under your definition of being a skill. You can become skillful at creativity in the same way you can become skillful at taking a shit, as in not getting shit all over your hands and floor. Taking a shit is still not a skill, it is an innate ability like creativity that can be less cumbersome with practice.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.yorku.ca/jbeck/do_animals_engage_in_concep.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiFjfeX89LRAhWC1CYKHeZHBIkQFghzMBI&usg=AFQjCNF4W2rXEvxkNwDMd2jELcSW2j_vmA&sig2=MWTNaf3hdNtMZyn7urVUzw

Dogs/other animals certainly have thoughts and are capable of basic abstraction, Friederike Range found that dogs are capable of simple abstract reasoning, and a seperate study found lowland gorillas and orangutans are capable of creating abstract classifications of other animals.

Creativity does not require abstraction, it requires imagination - concrete thought patterns of novel idea formation.
The whole concept of abstraction is directly opposed to the concept of symbols. Symbols are concrete with abstract definitions. Abstractions dont have from, they are exclusivly conceptual. The definition of a symbol may be abstract, but the symbol itself isn't, and animals are clearly capable of understanding symbols ie. A seeing eye dog.

Its also a total non sequitur to go from "humans arent born with the ability to know the meaning of symbols without learning their definitions" to "therefor creativity is a skill"

I conclude that you are a brainlet unable to accept your own cognative disability (from your inability to form a coherent and logical arguement), so you resort to >muh creativity so you can continue to pretend you are some special little meaningful snowflake that you always aspired to be.

[Anonymous No.8618585]

>>8618571
too obvious

BakaDesuSenpai~

[Anonymous No.8618588]

>>8618481
When have you provided anything useful to society?

[Anonymous No.8618590]

>>8618585
Not a bait

Not an argument

Desu~

[Anonymous No.8618592]

>>8618590
It is

Wasn't meant to be

BakaDesuSenpai~

[Anonymous No.8618596]

>>8618588
>When have you provided anything useful to society?
>https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/scientific-method/

Desu~

[Anonymous No.8618597]

>>8618481
lol i am seeing some people getting trigged by you , good job OP!, i dont even know how some smarts mathematicians even bother to argue with you, its like comparing apples and grapes , it is no fucking posible

[Anonymous No.8618600]

>>8618597
Not an argument m7

[Anonymous No.8618601]

>>8618597
btw some of the best mathematicians were philosophers at the same time so chill tf

[Anonymous No.8618603]

>>8618597
dirty fence sitter

[Anonymous No.8618604]

>>8618481
I have a philosophy question for you. One asked by many a liberal arts graduate.

> Would you like fries with that?

[Anonymous No.8618605]

>>8618596
>Pulling out the scientific method meme.
It's common sense. If you needed a title to come up with that then you are truly a sub-human.

[Anonymous No.8618606]

>>8618600
i dont really care who is the best, but
have you ever tried to prove the fundamental theorem of calculus (both ones), there´s a lot of
creativity in them , the fact of using infinitum such a concept and not a number to solve problems it´s pretty creative

[Anonymous No.8618607]

>>8618604
Not an argument

>>8618605
Not an argument

I see mathematicians know how to do calculus but cant make a proper argument. topkek

Desu~

[Anonymous No.8618610]

>>8618607
anything else to say sempai , i am going to sleep

[Anonymous No.8618614]

>>8618607
I studied philosophy at college and since. In fact it is probably the only liberal arts subject that retains any intellectual credibility.

Also have degree in pure math and also in computing. So I have a point of comparison.

[Anonymous No.8618617]

Math and Philosophy master race.

To claim humans are not needed the creation of mathematics is ignorance of mathematics. To claim that mathematics doesn't need philosophical underpinnings is ignorance of philosophy.

[Anonymous No.8618619]

>>8618617
amen sita

[Anonymous No.8618623]

>>8618617
I didnt say men were not needed to create maths. But once maths are created you can just set up all your axioms in a computer that will use logic more efficiently and effectively than men to derive conclusions from the initial axioms.

But guess what you cant replace philosophers with computers.

Desu~

[Anonymous No.8618625]

>>8618563
kekekekekek

[Anonymous No.8618627]

Historians are better than philosophers. they create stuff way better than math or philospia. History is also easily the hardest subject for normies because math freaks can't read

[Anonymous No.8618631]

>>8618623
>But once maths are created you can just set up all your axioms in a computer that will use logic more efficiently and effectively than men to derive conclusions from the initial axioms.

Ganbarou Hiluberto-chan

[Anonymous No.8618632]

>>8618627
>Historians
>Create

If you mean making up stories then yes, historians create stuff.

Desu~

[Anonymous No.8618635]

>>8618632
I'm glad you agree that all philosophy is just based on the perceptions of reality created by us historians through the use of violence against each other at symposiums to determine the true realities of both modern and speculative history. We are basically gods. you're welcome my kid.

[Anonymous No.8618637]

>studying philosophy turns you into a degenerate weeb

[Anonymous No.8618638]

>>8618635
>top kek pure made up bullshit + not an argument

>>8618637
:3

Desu~

Desu~

[Anonymous No.8618640]

>>8618638
you should probably tell me if you're a cute boy or not. I am basically a god as you have admitted

[Anonymous No.8618642]

>>8618638
>>8618640
What is going on in this thread? Have your feeble minds been broken by the inauguration of our new glorious president?

[Anonymous No.8618643]

>>8618642
I can say this trumpster will be teddy tier. based af. but philosophy boy needs to recognize and deliver

[Anonymous No.8618647]

>>8618640
Depends on your definition of cute. If you mean tall, big muscles, alpha male then not.

If you mean cute like baby, petite and all that stuff then I've been told that Im adorable by girls.

But I dont like people and I dont like aspies who study story.

>>8618642

Hail Trump pls deport all mexicans

Desu~

[Anonymous No.8618650]

>>8618647
I meant baby face. Desu~

[Anonymous No.8618673]

>>8618481
philosophy is a meme

[Anonymous No.8618686]

philosophy is the science without the science.
all other science has the common decency to follow up on one's claim and try to falsify it.
all philosophy does is make a claim, that's it.
this is the reason why fucks like you are still sperging about sigmund fraud and his mother fetish.

[Anonymous No.8618690]

>>8618686
>Fraud
>Philosopher

top kek

Desu~

[Anonymous No.8618700]

>>8618481
> they just use logic and axioms to find the solution, no skill needed, we can just get rid of them all and use computers

>he thinks P=NP

kek'd, m'friend

[Anonymous No.8618707]

>>8618481
I created and fitted a shelf last week, using math to measure how big to cut it and where to put it. This week I wanted to put up another, but using philosophy came to the conclusion that everything I do is futile and a waste of time as we are all doomed to die. Philosophy sucks and results in nowhere to stack my books and CDs.

[Anonymous No.8618710]

>>8618690
>fraud
>not used in philosophy courses all around the world to this fucking day.
dont even try to deny it, you wannabe STEM. i had to take a course of your inane shite.
half it it was lamenting about the time when philosophy was actually worth something (plato, socrates and such), and a quarter was spent on the mother-issue-man himself. oh, and lets not forget the 'modern' nihilistic fucks who are actively trying to break scientific reasoning because they termed it 'pragmatic'.
please, find a real job.

[Anonymous No.8618714]

>>8618516
do you even know where you are desu senpai?
>>>/plebbit/

[Anonymous No.8618719]

>>8618714
he's a faggit

[Anonymous No.8618736]

>>8618710
I never said Fraud was a philosopher wtf dont you get sarcasm or what

Desu~

[Anonymous No.8618742]

>>8618736
either you are so retarded that you genuinely didn't understand what i said, or you fucked up your post to the point of saying something completely opposite of what you meant.
try to reread what i posted, as you seem to have the focus of a concave lens.

[Anonymous No.8618773]

Yeah that's right philosophy is god tier. If you don't study philosophy, pure math, and economics you're a pleb.

>tfw thinking about esotericism and numbers

Nicomachus and Pythagoras had incredible concepts regarding harmonic ratios.

[Anonymous No.8618782]

>>8618773
I bet Herodotus could beat those faggots up

[Anonymous No.8618805]

>>8618490
>smuganimegirl.jpg
>not a bait

qed

[Anonymous No.8618807]

>>8618782
>haha look mom I mentioned someone Greek to someone who knew who Greek people are
Congrats. Now how is any of this related to Herodotus?

[Anonymous No.8618809]

>>8618807
philosophy would be nothing without the foundation of history you dum dum. Heroditus is litteraly a god like all historians as math nor philosophy would ever exist without them my dude.
:^)

[Anonymous No.8618816]

>>8618481
>Not knowing computablity theory and the limitations of a turing machine
>Thinking that mathematical objects and theorems are "already there" and that the work of a mathematician is to "get there"
Must be nice having a complete simplified view of what maths are so you can just neglect them to justify your lack of knowledge

[Anonymous No.8618830]

>>8618497
>downies missing a chromosome
Actually they have 1 more than us

[Anonymous No.8618837]

>>8618700
>He doesn't respond because doesn't understand wtf P=NP meanz

[Anonymous No.8618839]

>>8618481
If you're really studying philosophy and thinking that please kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.8618845]

>>8618839
Study history and become a literal GOD

[Anonymous No.8618886]

>>8618607
Nah bro

[Anonymous No.8618912]

Dang, I know this is bait but sometimes I like to look at these threads to see if anyone is capable of extolling the virtues of both philosophy and science, but it always becomes some unnecessary dick waving contest. I guess that's 4chan for ya.

[Anonymous No.8618924]

>>8618481
Should I quit my 300k starting salary job to begin my journey in the lucrative field of philosophy?

[Anonymous No.8618929]

>>8618924
Maybe it could help you realize that money isn't everything in life.

[Anonymous No.8618931]

>>8618816
Well, after setting down the axioms you have to define (create) objects and those objects behave according to theorems, whether they've been discovered or not. In that sense the theorems are already there, but first you need to come up with the objects.

[Anonymous No.8618934]

>>8618809
>philosophy would be nothing without history
Please tell me the effects Herodotus had on Plato's mathematical or philosophical reasoning.

[Anonymous No.8618938]

>>8618816
That picture is a fucking 9/10

That isn't how you pronounce his name

[Anonymous No.8618947]

>>8618934
There very world view their very essence. their soul could not have existed. Neither could yours. They never would have come to what they did inside a vacuum. The recording of History is the work of g-d

[Anonymous No.8618950]

>>8618938
>Opinion Decarted

Everything seems to be in order.

[Anonymous No.8618954]

>>8618931
What's "there" might be the statements, but not the proofs. It's like saying that the technology to cure any cancer harmlessly is already there but we just have to built it

[Anonymous No.8618959]

>>8618947
Listen I've read The Histories man. That's how I'm able to have this conversation with you.

Plato did not read The Histories in order to write The Republic. I believe there are some passages for a couple pages regarding Darius discussing forms of government with the seven who were overthrowing Astyages. But that's it. That's the only thing that could have helped Plato.

[Anonymous No.8618962]

>>8618950
Everything after the T in Descartes name is silent.

[Anonymous No.8618971]

>>8618959
History is everything it's the people you talk to the pudding you eat. All things are history and All historians are god. You do not need to read history or learn under a historian to know it. it comes to you. The historian merely needs to exist and be and do history. For math and philosophy and all other lesser disciplines are like telescopes while historians are the universe itself.

[Anonymous No.8618986]

>>8618614
>I studied a subject
>It's part of the only "real" subjects left!
>Totally not because I'm retard level educated in everything else
>Nope, cause it's pure and grate!!

[Anonymous No.8618987]

>>8618481
>philosophy is god tier
Good one.

[Anonymous No.8618989]

>>8618962
Wrong

[Anonymous No.8619006]

>>8618954
But a given statement (at least most of them) is either true or false, even if you do not know which one. Proofs are just means to check the validity of a statement. Mathematical objects behave according to true statements without regarding if it has been proven.

I can't think of a good cancer analogy for getting my point across.

[Anonymous No.8619070]

This thread was moved to >>>/trash/7334656